BH 209 - $80

Gorilla

Gorilla

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I was at Sportsman's Warehouse tonight and they had a whole shelf full of BH 209 powder for $79. 99 per 8 oz bottle.

I guess that is not too bad if you already spent $6000 on your best of the west / gun works long range muzzleloader.
 
Yep already had the kids using triple 7 last year. I'm the only one with a muzzy tag this year and I probably have enough Blackhorn 209 for this season and when it's gone I'm done with it. I'll sight in a gun or two with triple 7 just in case I need a backup or if I do run out of Blackhorn.

Whether we can afford it or not is not the issue. The issue is how bad we are being gouged not only with inflated pricing but the shrinkage going from 10 ounces to 8 ounces. Blackhorn 209 is great stuff but it isn't $160 a pound great. For the price difference I will gladly shoot an alternative.

Chris Hodgdon needs to step up and explain the exorbitant price increases since he acquired Blackhorn.
 
I love shooting Blackhorn. I have two 10 oz jugs. Don’t muzzy hunt that much but when this is gone I will shoot another powder unless the price comes down to reasonable. Not worth $80 for 8 oz!!!
 
Do the math. It's not a whole lot different per shot than when bowhunting.

Before anyone laughs (which I know some will) not all shots in archery hunting you recover the arrow. I'm talking about the miss and launch.

When you let an arrow fly, you're always willing to accpet that arrow may be lost.

$80 for 8 oz is approx 43 grs per dollar. A 70 gr load (by wt) comes in at $1.63 per shot, adding the bullet, makes it $2 to $2.50 per shot. Many hunting arrow setups run $32 each. The chances are always high you will recover the arrow, or at least the expensive part, the broadhead, which offsets the higher shot cost loss to make it worth it to even be willing to let the arrow fly.

It's more of a wash really.
 
You Forgot The Remington Ultimate Ignition!

They're GOUGING On it As Well!

roadrunner said:
Do the math. It's not a whole lot different per shot than when bowhunting.

Before anyone laughs (which I know some will) not all shots in archery hunting you recover the arrow. I'm talking about the miss and launch.

When you let an arrow fly, you're always willing to accpet that arrow may be lost.

$80 for 8 oz is approx 43 grs per dollar. A 70 gr load (by wt) comes in at $1.63 per shot, adding the bullet, makes it $2 to $2.50 per shot. Many hunting arrow setups run $32 each. The chances are always high you will recover the arrow, or at least the expensive part, the broadhead, which offsets the higher shot cost loss to make it worth it to even be willing to let the arrow fly.

It's more of a wash really.
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It’s BS is what it is… 777 still goes boom at the fraction of the price, also with arrows, if you are not a total dunce you can shoot those 20 dollar arrows for years… current 6 are from 2 years ago and still going strong, and that’s shooting 2 times a week at a local 3d range and I’m not that good of an archer
 
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HntHrdr said:
It’s BS is what it is… 777 still goes boom at the fraction of the price, also with arrows, if you are not a total dunce you can shoot those 20 dollar arrows for years… current 6 are from 2 years ago and still going strong, and that’s shooting 2 times a week at a local 3d range and I’m not that good of an archer
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Wasn't talking about target shooting. My post was about a hunting situation...
 
777 is a very good powder and I am stocking up a lifetime supply while its affordable and available. Never know what changes will come tomorrow. No way would I sign up for BH209 at current prices, shrinking bottles, and spotty availability.
 
roadrunner said:
Wasn't talking about target shooting. My post was about a hunting situation...
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For sure, I hunt with my target arrows, arrows are around 20 bucks its that 30 dollar broadhead that hurts the most if you don’t get those back…
Ps I don’t want to even think about casual target shooting with 209 haha ?
 
777 is water soluble so if there is any moisture in the air it absorbs it. So does the fouling in your barrel. That’s why it shoots fine at the range and then it’s all over hell when the gun has sat for a few hours. I’ll work the extra half hour a year so I can afford the overpriced BH209 and know that my gun is gonna shoot the same every shot.
 
roadrunner said:
Do the math. It's not a whole lot different per shot than when bowhunting.

Before anyone laughs (which I know some will) not all shots in archery hunting you recover the arrow. I'm talking about the miss and launch.

When you let an arrow fly, you're always willing to accpet that arrow may be lost.

$80 for 8 oz is approx 43 grs per dollar. A 70 gr load (by wt) comes in at $1.63 per shot, adding the bullet, makes it $2 to $2.50 per shot. Many hunting arrow setups run $32 each. The chances are always high you will recover the arrow, or at least the expensive part, the broadhead, which offsets the higher shot cost loss to make it worth it to even be willing to let the arrow fly.

It's more of a wash really.
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Not even close to a wash when comparing arrows/broadheads to powder/bullets. Powder and bullets are a consumable every shot. Arrows are only a consumable if you miss and lose an arrow or miss and break an arrow.

I have several different styles of arrows that each started out as a matched dozen. Each set is more than 15 years old. The oldest set I’m down to 6 arrows left “gold tip pro hunters” out of a dozen, the others have maybe 2 or 3 arrows missing out of the dozen. I use the same broadheads for practice year after year.

When muzzleloading I shoot approximately 1 1/2 10oz. bottles or roughly a pound of Black horn while practicing. That would now be $120 a year. I cast my own bullets so lead costs are between free and $2 a pound. Harvester sabots are around $10 for a package of 50;

I don’t know how many arrows and broadheads you are losing each year but definitely more than the average archer if you think it’s a wash. Even if I was shooting power belts archery costs are much less.

I’ve got ten dozen broadheads and at least seven dozen arrows (I used to have a shop and still have all my equipment to work on friends and family bows) I think I’m good in the archery department. Not so much in the Blackhorn. I was going to buy a five pound jug a couple years ago but couldn’t find one anywhere.

Blackhorn 209 is corrosive. When it first came out I tested it by leaving two muzzies in the bathroom for a month, after the season and they were well fouled from shooting. Those barrels were toast after the month and I called western powders afterwards and told them what I had done. Their response was: we aren’t the manufacturer just the distributor, we were told it was non-corrosive but we hadn’t had time to test it before we put it on the market. We are aware of the issue.

They sent me three eight pound jugs of smokeless powder to compensate me for testing my rifles. That was stand up on their part, they didn’t need to do anything for me but they did. Now I put those guns through some serious conditions with a steamed up bathroom everyday from showers. Had I cleaned those guns well after each season they would have been fine.
 
Katoom said:
777 is a very good powder and I am stocking up a lifetime supply while its affordable and available. Never know what changes will come tomorrow. No way would I sign up for BH209 at current prices, shrinking bottles, and spotty availability.
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Triple 7 has a much shorter shelf life than Blackhorn 209 does.
 
deadibob said:
Not even close to a wash when comparing arrows/broadheads to powder/bullets. Powder and bullets are a consumable every shot. Arrows are only a consumable if you miss and lose an arrow or miss and break an arrow.

I have several different styles of arrows that each started out as a matched dozen. Each set is more than 15 years old. The oldest set I’m down to 6 arrows left “gold tip pro hunters” out of a dozen, the others have maybe 2 or 3 arrows missing out of the dozen. I use the same broadheads for practice year after year.

When muzzleloading I shoot approximately 1 1/2 10oz. bottles or roughly a pound of Black horn while practicing. That would now be $120 a year. I cast my own bullets so lead costs are between free and $2 a pound. Harvester sabots are around $10 for a package of 50;

I don’t know how many arrows and broadheads you are losing each year but definitely more than the average archer if you think it’s a wash. Even if I was shooting power belts archery costs are much less.

I’ve got ten dozen broadheads and at least seven dozen arrows (I used to have a shop and still have all my equipment to work on friends and family bows) I think I’m good in the archery department. Not so much in the Blackhorn. I was going to buy a five pound jug a couple years ago but couldn’t find one anywhere.

Blackhorn 209 is corrosive. When it first came out I tested it by leaving two muzzies in the bathroom for a month, after the season and they were well fouled from shooting. Those barrels were toast after the month and I called western powders afterwards and told them what I had done. Their response was: we aren’t the manufacturer just the distributor, we were told it was non-corrosive but we hadn’t had time to test it before we put it on the market. We are aware of the issue.

They sent me three eight pound jugs of smokeless powder to compensate me for testing my rifles. That was stand up on their part, they didn’t need to do anything for me but they did. Now I put those guns through some serious conditions with a steamed up bathroom everyday from showers. Had I cleaned those guns well after each season they would have been fine.
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Go back and re-read my post. Hint: second paragraph...
 
I've had nothing but hell trying to get a muzzleloader to shoot 777, I finally broke down and bought the BH209, will definitely keep shooting it as long as it's available. I did load up and bought 6 jugs as I could. Should be good for several years, but I also won't be tinkering with it to much, I have the load worked up, and all the bullets I will ever need and the gun is on target.
 
JakeH said:
I've had nothing but hell trying to get a muzzleloader to shoot 777, I finally broke down and bought the BH209, will definitely keep shooting it as long as it's available. I did load up and bought 6 jugs as I could. Should be good for several years, but I also won't be tinkering with it to much, I have the load worked up, and all the bullets I will ever need and the gun is on target.
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I have discovered that 70 grs by wt of BH209 and 3 pellets (100 gr) of 777 Firestar shoot close enough to be able switch back and forth without resighting in each time, at least with the slug I'm currently using.
 
roadrunner said:
I have discovered that 70 grs by wt of BH209 and 3 pellets (100 gr) of 777 Firestar shoot close enough to be able switch back and forth without resighting in each time, at least with the slug I'm currently using.
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The fouling I was getting with the 777 was my issue, couldn't hardly load a bullet after two shots.

BH209 is just a better product. Sucks it's over priced, but it is what it is. Bit like I said I shouldn't need any for awhile, hopefully they get it sorted out and it becomes more affordable and available. Or a competitor comes up with a similar product.
 
JakeH said:
The fouling I was getting with the 777 was my issue, couldn't hardly load a bullet after two shots.

BH209 is just a better product. Sucks it's over priced, but it is what it is. Bit like I said I shouldn't need any for awhile, hopefully they get it sorted out and it becomes more affordable and available. Or a competitor comes up with a similar product.
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Same here on the 777. Would have to "scrub" the first 4 inches of barrel or so at the muzzle with a copper brush to get the next one started. After that, it would go all the way down until seated.

I will be using BH209 on my muzzy antelope hunt this year with the 777 along for backup.
 
deadibob said:
Triple 7 has a much shorter shelf life than Blackhorn 209 does.
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I don’t subscribe to this. Maybe powder or pellets stored in non-airtight containers, but I have used loose 777 that is 10+ years old and have no complaints.

Regarding comments on the fouling/crud, it greatly diminished upon using muzzleloader / low power 209’s vs hotter primers.
 
JakeH said:
I've had nothing but hell trying to get a muzzleloader to shoot 777, I finally broke down and bought the BH209, will definitely keep shooting it as long as it's available. I did load up and bought 6 jugs as I could. Should be good for several years, but I also won't be tinkering with it to much, I have the load worked up, and all the bullets I will ever need and the gun is on target.
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Were you running a spit patch between every shot. The one downside to 777 is the crud ring buildup and it is necessary to swab the bore between shots or your accuracy will suffer.
 
deadibob said:
Were you running a spit patch between every shot. The one downside to 777 is the crud ring buildup and it is necessary to swab the bore between shots or your accuracy will suffer.
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The caution regarding crud ring has a lot of truth, and swabbing between shots helps. Experimenting with/using the proper primer (low power 209), using a wool wad, and developing an efficient load really seem to reduce the formation of that hard deposit (which happens at the breech end). If barrels are getting crud elsewhere, or towards the muzzle when using 777, I’d be suspicious that too big of a charge is being attempted, and backing off the load would probably help without actually hurting performance.
 
roadrunner said:
Then you wouldn't have written a novel post.

Can't fill a tag if you aren't willing to miss...
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can't fill a tag if you aren't willing to miss? That thought right there is why people miss. Archery is 80% mental and if there is the slightest thought in your head that includes the word "miss" then the odds are you will miss.

Your statement is an oxymoron. You aren't filling any tag if you're willing to "miss"? you definitely won't fill a tag if you're missing.
roadrunner said:
Wasn't talking about target shooting. My post was about a hunting situation...
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Ummm...weren't you talking about comparing the cost of losing arrows vs. the cost of Blackhorn? How does that cost not include target shooting? Target shooting is part of the hunt and unless you target shoot to prepare for the hunt then the hunt itself will be in vain if you aren't prepared to make a good shot when that moment comes during the hunt.

I'm not trying to be an argumentative douche I'm just trying to see your logic because it's not adding up for me.
 
deadibob said:
can't fill a tag if you aren't willing to miss? That thought right there is why people miss. Archery is 80% mental and if there is the slightest thought in your head that includes the word "miss" then the odds are you will miss.

Your statement is an oxymoron. You aren't filling any tag if you're willing to "miss"? you definitely won't fill a tag if you're missing.

Ummm...weren't you talking about comparing the cost of losing arrows vs. the cost of Blackhorn? How does that cost not include target shooting? Target shooting is part of the hunt and unless you target shoot to prepare for the hunt then the hunt itself will be in vain if you aren't prepared to make a good shot when that moment comes during the hunt.

I'm not trying to be an argumentative douche I'm just trying to see your logic because it's not adding up for me.
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You can shoot close to 16 shots using BH209 and a half way decent bullet to one hunting arrow setup. If you loose that arrow the first time you shoot it, whether you connect or not, you get the same utility out of each, just takes a little longer for the powder and bullet to equal the same amount spent.

You know you will not reuse the powder and bullet, you may get to reuse the hunting arrow setup.

The cost per shot is a fixed cost because it's consumable (as you mentioned earlier), the only way to get the maximum benefit from the arrow is to keep using it until the cost is the same. After 16 shots, seasons, animals, or whatever it finally is a wash. Getting 16 uses out of one hunting arrow is doable but unlikely.

You won't fill tags if your not willing to miss means you're willing to take a shot regardless of what you're using. Otherwise you're just toting a weapon around enjoying all the wilds has to offer. That does not mean every shot is a hail mary shot. If they are, BH209 suddenly becomes really cheap compared to a hunting arrow setup.

I never said anything about target shooting, simply a hunting scenario only.
 
I Left The Store With The Same Amount I Walked In With!

I Do Draw Lines woodruff!

I Got Bent Over Locally Last Fall & That's More Than Enough For Me!

Nothin More Than GOUGING From Every Direction!
 
With my draw results this year, I didn’t need anymore! I’m hoping the few bottles I have, get me by. It’s a big ripoff. I hope they eventually get some good competition
 
woodruffhunter said:
With my draw results this year, I didn’t need anymore! I’m hoping the few bottles I have, get me by. It’s a big ripoff. I hope they eventually get some good competition
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Competition is the only thing that will drive the price down, but it probably still won't get it back to where it was a few years ago as the high price is what is going to attract the competition.
 
The only way the gouging will stop is for everybody to just quit buying it...they'll either have to lower the price or quit selling it...
 
JakeH said:
Competition is the only thing that will drive the price down, but it probably still won't get it back to where it was a few years ago as the high price is what is going to attract the competition.
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I agree and I would understand a price increase from what it was. However, doubling the price, or more is ridiculous.
 
JakeH said:
Competition is the only thing that will drive the price down, but it probably still won't get it back to where it was a few years ago as the high price is what is going to attract the competition.
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Not unless the sitting price becomes the new norm on price. A competitor would have to offer a better mouse trap at a lower price. Only way to lower that price is for the manufacturer to work for free.
 
elkantlers said:
I'll say one thing, BH209 is not getting any cheaper.
Three years ago it was 35.99
Two years ago it was $49.99
Last year it was $69.99
This year it's $79.99.
If you need some, buy it now. Or you can complain next year when it's $89.99.
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Yep, plenty of guys complained when Cabelas had it for $50 for the 10 oz bottles in 2021. I bought enough to last me and my kids a decade or so.
 
yotebuster17 said:
777 is water soluble so if there is any moisture in the air it absorbs it. So does the fouling in your barrel. That’s why it shoots fine at the range and then it’s all over hell when the gun has sat for a few hours. I’ll work the extra half hour a year so I can afford the overpriced BH209 and know that my gun is gonna shoot the same every shot.
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My man! I’d have a beer with you.

I have never found anything that compares (when you factor in everything) to BH209.
 
Better get some at powder valley if in the market. ONLY $70/ bottle and no hazmat with above code. But you have to buy at least 2 to get that.
 
They can stick BH where the sun doesn't shine. I refuse to be ripped off.

I'll continue to use real black powder at $24 LB. It kills just fine.
 
Muley said:
They can stick BH where the sun doesn't shine. I refuse to be ripped off.

I'll continue to use real black powder at $24 LB. It kills just fine.
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Well…… I don’t think all be stick my 209 powder there but I’m still using black powder I bought in my 1976 for my Hawkin and Kentucky replicas. That old black powered still sends a round ball where I point the muzzy. For my old stuff, I’m just find with the old stuff.

Wildlife Board in Utah might make all this back and forth between Black Horn and Triple 7 less frustrating. At least for us old hold overs…… with our antiques.
 
People with no patience and/or have money sticking out of their pockets, is the reason the Blackhorn 209 manufacturers, are laughing at the retail product buyers, all the way to their bank.

Boycotts are the only way to fight corporate greed.
Also, if using Blackhorn 209 powder is the only way you can depend on non-hangfires or misfires, you aren't very good at the sport of muzzleloading.
 
Or…… allow free enterprise to provide a good alternative and offer a lower price. Muzzleloader products are not exactly penicillin or insulin. It’s not going to kill us if we can’t afford it.

In a free enterprise system an entrepreneur is allowed to seek a price that is in balance with demand…….. unless it’s a life or death product. If the price becomes too high, the looses the sale. Apparently 209 isn’t over priced yet.

We’re also allowed to vote against the entrepreneur by not buying their product……

Lifes good, huh.
 
GoexBlackhorn said:
People with no patience and/or have money sticking out of their pockets, is the reason the Blackhorn 209 manufacturers, are laughing at the retail product buyers, all the way to their bank.

Boycotts are the only way to fight corporate greed.
Also, if using Blackhorn 209 powder is the only way you can depend on non-hangfires or misfires, you aren't very good at the sport of muzzleloading.
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The 3 shots made using BH 209 was about the cheapest part of my muzzy antelope hunt a couple weeks ago.

Short term price hurts, long term not so much.

Doesn't mean I'm thrilled about $70 +/- for an 8oz jar either.
 
I just picked up a gently used Cooper MZ. After being away from BP for 14 years, pricing yesterday at Sheels was painful. Three bottles of BH209, four packs of Bor locks, a brass brush and some patches put me at 300 dollars. So I go home and figure out that each 8-ounce bottle, using 100 grains by weight will only give me 35 shots...
 
LeeWoiteshek said:
I just picked up a gently used Cooper MZ. After being away from BP for 14 years, pricing yesterday at Sheels was painful. Three bottles of BH209, four packs of Bor locks, a brass brush and some patches put me at 300 dollars. So I go home and figure out that each 8-ounce bottle, using 100 grains by weight will only give me 35 shots...
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Ouch!!
 

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