Blackhorn 209

[HornyMan]

I don't post to much, more of lurker than anything but thought I would speak up a little about this.

I tried this powder out tonight and couldnt be happier. Shot almost 20 shots before having fliers, three swabs later I was back to shooting another half dozen rounds.

I highly recomend trying this powder out. I was skeptical as I was dialed in already with my old set up but after a few tweaks to the scope Im redialed in.

Old set up was TC Pro, 100 loose of 777, 777 209 primer, SST 250 grn low drag sabot.

All I changed was the powder and switched to a winchester 209 shotgun 209 instead of the 777 209.

Groups were 5 shots all touching at 50 yards and 2.5-3" group at 150 yards. Well worth the money and ease of shooting and loading. I was upset that after 20 shots I was getting fliers, I thought my scope went off. After couting caps shot I realized how many shots I had taken. Usually after 5 shots of 777 I would clean. This powder is goooood and I highly recomend it. The only disadvantage is finding it.

 

[lone_hunter]

I agree. I keep waiting to find out what catch with this powder, besides cost. You do need to use regular 209 primers and some have reported some gun types will have hang fires. The cleanup is amazingly easy for a ML. It is also great not worrying about the corrosion is you do not have time clean at the range.

 

[huntnrich]

I went out Saturday with my friend shooting the omega with this powder. He had amazing groups at 150 yds, plus like you said, we cleaned it about every 10 to 15 shots is all. I will be shooting it next year.

 

[APBT]

26 shots today with my cva optima using everything from barnes expanders to XTP's and never touched the bore with a patch!


90gr pyrodex P and not the slightest amount of crud was felt when loading a fresh sabot.


www.GandersPowerbeltForu.Powerguild.net

 

[alp75]

I have shot close to 80 shots with bh209. Needless to say I have been very, very impressed. I used to use t7 and had to swab between every shot to maintain good groups.
with bh209 I shot over 30 without swabbing and without sacrificing accuracy. I am now getting about 1.5 inch groups at 100 yds with 120 grains of bh209 and 245 grain barnes spitfires. Next I will move out to 150 and zero it in. I am shooting a tc triumph. If you have a gun that it is compatible with, it is definately worth a try.

 

[Rem308]

At $37.95 for 10 ounces,it will be awhile before I try it.

 

[alp75]

Sportsmans sells it for $29.99 for 10 ounces. It is cheaper than pellets.

 

[alp75]

I guess I should rephrase that. It is cheaper shot per shot, not per package.

 

[HornyMan]

Yeah thats when they have it. I got the last bottle from this last shipment and dont know when they will get more. Luckily I have enough for the hunt as it didnt take to much tweaking from my prior set up.

 

[alp75]

I am going to be shooting again tonight. My goal is to zero in my scope at 150 yds. I will then shoot at 200 and see what kind of drop I have. I will post to give the details of group sizes and drop from 150 to 200 yds. I am shooting a t/c triumph with 120 grains bh209 and barnes 245 grain spitfires. I currently have been getting 1.5" groups at 100 yds with this setup and not having to swab the barrel at all. Should be interesting.

 

[RobK]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-08 AT 01:20PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-08 AT 01:15?PM (MST)

I agree its a great powder , I get a little more carbon on my breech plug but clean up is a snap and yes you can shoot this stuff with out cleaning between shots .

Here is a 20 shot group at 50 yards , shots #2-19 went in the same spot as the first shot did with a spotless/cold barrel . I shot all 20 shots back to back on a cool day , load and shoot and "NO" cleaning. The shot in the bulls eye was already there , i forgot to bring new targets and had to make due . I used 90 grain of BH 209 , 300 grain xtp and winchester primers in a Encore SS .

Here is a 15 shot group before i adjusted the scope to the left at 50 yards cleaning between shots .

 

[RobK]

>At $37.95 for 10 ounces,it will
>be awhile before I try
>it.

Ouch !!
I bought three can's on-line and paid the hazmat fee and shipping . It was cheaper "for me" than driving to sportmans warehouse and back !!

 

[alp75]

Well here are some of the results I had with my shooting. Again, at 100 yds I am at 1.5" groups. I moved out to 150 and my groups moved out to 2.5". I then zeroed in my scope at this yardage and went out to 200 yds. Unfortunately I had the wind picked up and my consistency went out the door. I am also shooting with a 1 power scope and even with a good target (I like the thompson scope targets)my crosshairs cover up most the target at that range. It makes it hard to know weather it was the wind, or the fact that it is really hard to tell if you're centered. It is probably a little of both. I am using a fixed table stand so it does take me mostly out of it. I did have two shots on the same horizontal plane at about 2" low. I moved back to 100 yds and back to 1.5" groups and about 5" high. So at 100 yds 5" high. Dead on at 150 and at 200 it appears to be 2" low. I will have to do more work at 200 yds. I fired another 25 shots and no swabbing.

I really like this powder.

 

[RobK]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-08 AT 06:13PM (MST)[p]>Well here are some of the
>results I had with my
>shooting. Again, at 100
>yds I am at 1.5"
>groups. I moved out
>to 150 and my groups
>moved out to 2.5".
>I then zeroed in my
>scope at this yardage and
>went out to 200 yds.
> Unfortunately I had the
>wind picked up and my
>consistency went out the door.
> I am also shooting
>with a 1 power scope
>and even with a good
>target (I like the thompson
>scope targets)my crosshairs cover up
>most the target at that


>range. It makes it
>hard to know weather it
>was the wind, or the
>fact that it is really
>hard to tell if you're
>centered. It is probably a
>little of both. I
>am using a fixed table
>stand so it does take
>me mostly out of it.
> I did have two
>shots on the same horizontal
>plane at about 2" low.
> I moved back to
>100 yds and back to
>1.5" groups and about 5"
>high. So at 100
>yds 5" high. Dead
>on at 150 and at
>200 it appears to be
>2" low. I will
>have to do more work
>at 200 yds. I
>fired another 25 shots and
>no swabbing.
>
>I really like this powder.

That's some darn good shootn there !!!

 

[Extex]

I have some pyrodex and 777 for sale --- cheap :7

 

[HornyMan]

Thats exactly how I feel, I have some Shcokey Gold and 777 that I would love to get rid of.


I shoot 1" group at 50 yards 4-5" high and I'm right on at 150 yds. At 200 I'm 4 " low, I know a 300 yard shot is capable with an illegal scope but I doubt the bullet would have the muzzle energy desired to put a big animal down.

 

[alp75]

It would be interesting for someone to do some chrono work out at 300 yds and see what kind of velocities at that range. I am estimating that I am somewhere around 2200 fps at the muzzle. That's pretty quick.

 

[DallanC]

Its cool to potentially have a powder that is indeed, able to be shot alot of times without cleaning. I'd like to try some of it soon.

That said, I would NOT be happy with that group at 50 yards. 2" at 50 yards is 4" at 100... 8" at 200 etc etc. You might have the power at 300 yards but man, you will have a 12" group at 300. That one group is 3" at 50!

To each his own I guess, I strive for loads that are sub 1.5" or less @ 100 yards. I sight in at a 125 yard zero which gives me a PBR out to 150 yards. The longest I've shot a deer at was 120 yards, most shots are around 80 yards.


-DallanC

 

[Extex]

I'm shooting 4 inch groups at 200 with a 300 gr Shockwave with 115 gr powder out of 2 different TC's. 250 yd shots with a 1 power scope with the crosshairs blocking out 90% of a deer will be very marginal even in perfect light, dead rest with no wind conditions - how often does that happen? I hope folks don't think it will make your ml a 300 yd gun cause it won't in Utah anyway.

The powder is truly a blessing just because its clean and consistant. I'm on my 4th bottle and can go up to 20-25 shots before things get funky - a couple of swabs with dry patches and she goes right back to good groups - I have noticed I need to pick the firehole every now and then - that is the dirtiest thing on the gun after shooting it and I did get one slight hang fire and all I could blame it on was the nipple looked nearly plugged after a lot of shots. It does take longer to clean with the oil solvents - I just don't have to do it as often and I'm not putting water down the barrel.

 

[Rem308]

If you want to shoot past 200 yards at big game, use a center fire.To much energy lost past that range to ensure a kill.

 

[alp75]

Etex.

Well said. I am a Utah hunter and would not attempt a shot beyond 200 yds. There are simply too many variables, one of the biggest being able to center on the vitals due to the 1 power scope. My post was simply stating that it would be interesting to see what the performance is like out to 300 yds. Powders and bullets have come a long way and it is fun to see what technology is capable of.

That being said, if you were in a state that you could use a powered scope and you had done you're homework and knew you where accurate and getting the velocities needed at 300 yds to make a kill...great. However, I am doubtful you could get the velocities at that range. Hence it would be interesting to see some chrono work out to 300 yds. I shoot a barnes 245 spitfire and they expand at velocities as low as 1100 fps. I would highly doubt those velocities out much past 250 yds. One article I read stated that the 300 grain barnes expander with a 2200 fps muzzle velocity retained 1525 fps at 200 yds. Interesting. Here is the link

www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_expander_bullets.htm

It all comes down to knowing your load, setup and capabilities. That can only come from practice and experimenting with different setups.

 

[RobK]

>Etex.
>
>Well said. I am a
>Utah hunter and would not
>attempt a shot beyond 200
>yds. There are simply
>too many variables, one of
>the biggest being able to
>center on the vitals due
>to the 1 power scope.
> My post was simply
>stating that it would be
>interesting to see what the
>performance is like out to
>300 yds. Powders and
>bullets have come a long
>way and it is fun
>to see what technology is
>capable of.
>
>That being said, if you were
>in a state that you
>could use a powered scope
>and you had done you're
>homework and knew you where
>accurate and getting the velocities
>needed at 300 yds to
>make a kill...great. However,
>I am doubtful you could
>get the velocities at that
>range. Hence it would
>be interesting to see some
>chrono work out to 300
>yds. I shoot a
>barnes 245 spitfire and they
>expand at velocities as low
>as 1100 fps. I
>would highly doubt those velocities
>out much past 250 yds.
> One article I read
>stated that the 300 grain
>barnes expander with a 2200
>fps muzzle velocity retained 1525
>fps at 200 yds. Interesting.
> Here is the link
>
>
>www.chuckhawks.com/barnes_expander_bullets.htm
>
>It all comes down to knowing
>your load, setup and capabilities.
> That can only come
>from practice and experimenting with
>different setups.

I agree , with my 1 x its hard to tell where the cross hairs at anything are over 150 , which i my max . And i think that's even pushing it . Good luck next week !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[deadibob]

I just switched to blackhorn 209 to try it out. Like they say it didn't foul much. I came home from my paunsagaunt archery elk hunt for one day. Took the muzzleloader out, sighted it in. Went out that evening and filled my doe tag. I figured I'd been hearing about all these people letting their guns sit without cleaning them because it is very non-corrosive so I put the gun away without cleaning it and hurried back to my elk hunt.

I had to go straight from my elk hunt to a business trip in Dallas. Well I got back Monday night and yesterday grabbed the gun so we could fill my wife's doe tag (by now the bore had about 15 shots through it without cleaning and had been sitting about 10 days). I look down the bore and sure enough, red. The bore was completely covered with surface rust. Well we went and shot her doe anyway last night.

The point I'm trying to make is don't believe this stuff is anyless corrosive than any other black-powder substitute just because there's less fouling. Don't slack off on maintenance.

I still think this powder seems like it will be the best one out there, it's just not as magical as we're being led to believe.

 

[alp75]

deadibob

When I first started testing out this powder about three months ago I purposely didn't clean between my first session and my second session to see if the claims where true. It was about a month and a half between sessions and I had no rust. Maybe somehow you got moisture in there, or you have extra moisture in you're home, or who knows? I just didn't have the same experience.

 

[lone_hunter]

I don't know if it's he powder, gun, or sabot but I am thrilled with my Triumph shooting 100grns of Blackhorn with a 250 Shockwave and Harverstor crushed rib sabots. I have amazing results, for me, at 200 yards today. Only about 4"- 4.5" drop from 100 yards, with great consistancy. I imageine the gun coud shoot past 200, but I don't even want to test it. With a 1X scope it all does become a blur out and past 200. If I can't get closer than 200, then I need to become a better hunter.

As for BH. It does clean very easy. All reports show that it is not nearly as corrosive, but I will still clean as soon as possible. It is nice to not sweat it though as my gun sits in may car uncleaned until tonight.

 

[hntbambi]

I too had about 26 shots in mine and left it sit for 2 weeks before I shot it again and in the second outing I shot another dozen shots. The gun sat for a week before I did anything to the bore and it was spotless. It still shines like a mirror.

 

[deadibob]

I'm hoping it was a fluke. The air has been pretty dry lately though. I just don't think I'm going to chance it any more that's all. It was just surface rust and didn't do any damage. But if a guy left it dirty all year after the hunt who knows. I've seens lots of guns ruined that way.

I was just surprised to find any rust. After I posted last night I went back and read their brochure and it does state that it will not corrode and the residue will not absorb moisture. It also claims there is no need to clean immediately after. For me to find even a little rust (the entire bore was covered) tells me it will absorb moisture to some degree.

I'm just telling you my results. Even if this powder were highly corrosive, it would be my first choice just due to the fact there is no crud-ring so follow-up shots will be more consistent.

Anyone here care to be the guinea pig and leave their gun dirty until this time next year so we can know for sure.