Bow tuning issues.

matt23 · Jul 26, 2023

Question for some of the more experienced bow guys on here. I spent a few day and many hours at a bow shop getting my bow tuned. No matter what he did my arrow through paper was tail right.
At first he thought it was my rest. Changed that out and it helped some but not fully. I can shoot pretty consistent groupings but fight being a bit low most the time. Anyone have any ideas? I have a few tags that I'm only a month away from and most other bow shops are booked out with it being so close to archery season here in Utah. Thanks

matt23 · Jul 26, 2023

I should add nock point was adjusted. Retied new d loops. Leveled everything. Timing was dead on. Like I posted before a bow shop did the work. So I wasn't dicking with it. Can I get it dialed in with the issue and be okay til a bow shop has an opening.?

ktg · Jul 26, 2023

Did they shim the cams?
Sounds like you'll have to just shoot it like it is. Probably won't be a big deal.

matt23 · Jul 26, 2023

ktg said:
Did they shim the cams?
Sounds like you'll have to just shoot it like it is. Probably won't be a big deal.

Yes they did shim the cams. That's kind of what I was thinking. Thanks.

BroadHead · Jul 26, 2023

If everything was leveled, center shot set, cams timed, etc, the other thing to try is a bare shaft tune through paper. It could very well be that you and the shop were on the right track by setting the rest, but perhaps you just need a few clicks further.

If you have a rest that you can dial, move it to the left a click at a time until it tears through paper perfectly. Likewise for hitting low, a quick band-aid would be to raise the rest one click at a time then shoot at 40, 50, 60 and ensure you are hitting where your pins are set. Only work on one setting at a time (move rest left, shoot, then if it looks good, raise it up, shoot groups and confirm).

This should get you by until you can book an appointment with the shop.

matt23 · Jul 26, 2023

BroadHead said:
If everything was leveled, center shot set, cams timed, etc, the other thing to try is a bare shaft tune through paper. It could very well be that you and the shop were on the right track by setting the rest, but perhaps you just need a few clicks further.

If you have a rest that you can dial, move it to the left a click at a time until it tears through paper perfectly. Likewise for hitting low, a quick band-aid would be to raise the rest one click at a time then shoot at 40, 50, 60 and ensure you are hitting where your pins are set. Only work on one setting at a time (move rest left, shoot, then if it looks good, raise it up, shoot groups and confirm).

This should get you by until you can book an appointment with the shop.

Everything was leveled, timed, and everything you mentioned. Yes I have a rest I can dial with micro adjust. I'll try a few shots with a bare shaft and see where I get. I hadn't thought about that. Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

JPickett · Jul 27, 2023

New bow? How’s your grip?

sticksender · Jul 27, 2023

Go to archerytalk and post your issue in the brand-specific forums. Of course you'll need to provide WAY more basic information than you are providing here. Such as what bow brand and model, cam timing settings, center shot setting, draw weight, type of rest, what arrow and how are they fletched, point weight, release, and etc.

JPickett · Jul 27, 2023

I ask if it’s a new bow because people think paper tuning is all about the bow mechanics. While it’s mostly that, if everything else is ad it should be you need to look at how your shooting the perfectly set up bow. Roll too much thumb or palm into a grip and you can make any bow tear left or right. Just a thought before unscrewing every Allen on the bow chasing it

matt23 · Jul 27, 2023

JPickett said:
I ask if it’s a new bow because people think paper tuning is all about the bow mechanics. While it’s mostly that, if everything else is ad it should be you need to look at how your shooting the perfectly set up bow. Roll too much thumb or palm into a grip and you can make any bow tear left or right. Just a thought before unscrewing every Allen on the bow chasing it

Yes it's a new bow. Checked grip well tuning it. I wasn't the only one who shot it paper tuning it as well. We tried different arrows also. I know when shooting it I catch myself gripping to tight at times

c3 · Jul 27, 2023

There are only three things that can make a consistent tear. Your grip of the bow, string alignment to center of the grip and vane contact.

Start with making sure there's no contact from some sort of funky rest / vane contact.

Second is recheck to make sure you're not gripping the bow at all. Lots of video's on how to get your hand at a 45 degree angle and the grip out on the thumb pad away from the lifeline of your palm if you haven't gone down that road to perfect that. When you get it perfect all the muscles in your bow forearm will go completely soft at full draw.

Third, there are bows that come from the factory that can not be tuned for string line to center of the bow. They require shims of the cams left or right to get a perfect bullet hole and then onto bareshaft, field point and fixed blade broad heads all flying perfectly together.

Take a pic of your bow hand and forearm at full draw so we can see if and where you might adjust.

Don't sweat it. We have all been down this road. When you get it right, it's a lifelong knowledge on how to get a bow shooting well.

Cheers,
Pete

matt23 · Jul 27, 2023

c3 said:
There are only three things that can make a consistent tear. Your grip of the bow, string alignment to center of the grip and vane contact.

Start with making sure there's no contact from some sort of funky rest / vane contact.

Second is recheck to make sure you're not gripping the bow at all. Lots of video's on how to get your hand at a 45 degree angle and the grip out on the thumb pad away from the lifeline of your palm if you haven't gone down that road to perfect that. When you get it perfect all the muscles in your bow forearm will go completely soft at full draw.

Third, there are bows that come from the factory that can not be tuned for string line to center of the bow. They require shims of the cams left or right to get a perfect bullet hole and then onto bareshaft, field point and fixed blade broad heads all flying perfectly together.

Take a pic of your bow hand and forearm at full draw so we can see if and where you might adjust.

Don't sweat it. We have all been down this road. When you get it right, it's a lifelong knowledge on how to get a bow shooting well.

Cheers,
Pete

Thanks. I'll get picture next time I shoot.

scopenstalk · Jul 27, 2023

matt23 said:
Yes it's a new bow. Checked grip well tuning it. I wasn't the only one who shot it paper tuning it as well. We tried different arrows also. I know when shooting it I catch myself gripping to tight at times

If it’s not your grip, and bow was set up with center shot where it should be per factory specs, cams timed, and you have the correct spine arrow, and rest adjustment within reason (rest adjustment isn’t a cure all and shouldn’t be used in large amounts to fix this) couldn’t get you shooting bullet holes then the cams need to be shimmed. That said if you’re a newer archer and haven’t been through the process before make sure you learn proper grip before shimming. Also try more than one arrow. Arrows tend to be picky of orientation of the weak side of the spine to the string.

What brand bow is it?

matt23 · Jul 27, 2023

scopenstalk said:
If it’s not your grip, and bow was set up with center shot where it should be per factory specs, cams timed, and you have the correct spine arrow, and rest adjustment couldn’t get you shooting bullet holes then the cams need to be shimmed. That said if you’re a newer archer and haven’t been through the process before make sure you learn proper grip before shimming. Also try more than one arrow. Arrows tend to be picky of orientation of the week side of the spine to the string.

What brand bow is it?

It's an Elite. I had a bow shop set it up. He did try and shim the cams. We tried my arrows and his arrows with the same thing. He also shot it as well and had the same result. It's a 70 pound draw shooting 300 spine arrows. He did say this was the first bow he couldn't get shooting bullet holes through paper. So he was kinda stumped.

scopenstalk · Jul 27, 2023

matt23 said:
It's an Elite. I had a bow shop set it up. He did try and shim the cams. We tried my arrows and his arrows with the same thing. He also shot it as well and has the same result. It's a 70 pound draw shooting 300 spine arrows. He did say this was the first bow he couldn't get shooting bullet holes through paper. So he was kinda stumped.

which model? If it’s one of the top end bows you should just adjust the SET system to fix that tear no shimming needed…….

matt23 · Jul 27, 2023

It's a Ritual so no set system unfortunately. I'll get it into another bow shop eventually. See if they can get it figured out.

muliehntr1017 · Jul 28, 2023

What’s your draw length, arrow shaft length (carbon to carbon), point weight, insert weight?

matt23 · Jul 28, 2023

muliehntr1017 said:
What’s your draw length, arrow shaft length (carbon to carbon), point weight, insert weight?

Draw 28, arrow shaft is 28.75", I'm shooting 125 grain tips and insert weight is 23 grains I believe.

muliehntr1017 · Jul 29, 2023

Spine seems to be correct. Are you shooting the same arrow every time through paper? If so, try different arrows and try spinning the nock to the next vane and shoot that through paper see if that helps. Basically nock tune your arrows

matt23 · Jul 29, 2023

muliehntr1017 said:
Spine seems to be correct. Are you shooting the same arrow every time through paper? If so, try different arrows and try spinning the nock to the next vane and shoot that through paper see if that helps. Basically nock tune your arrows

We shot some other arrows as well. We did nock tune a few to see if it helped. I talked to another shop they think it might need the cams shimmed more. We shall see if they didn't get shimmed enough.

JPickett · Jul 29, 2023

It might sound weird, but. I had an elite that I actually had to swap the limbs from top to bottom to get it tuned. Took a while to find that one. Once we did though it shot, and still shoots bullet holes

matt23 · Jul 29, 2023

JPickett said:
It might sound weird, but. I had an elite that I actually had to swap the limbs from top to bottom to get it tuned. Took a while to find that one. Once we did though it shot, and still shoots bullet holes

Interesting. Will see what this other bow shop says. Thanks for the input!

Pre-64 · Jul 29, 2023

As Pickett mentioned, if everything is correct on the rest, knock, arrow etc, you could have a miss matched limb set. It’s rare but I’ve seen it happen before, it can also be a stabilizer issue. Also don’t get too hung up on “tuning” shoot some groups and see how well you are doing at distance. If you can shoot 50-60 plus, thats when you will really see if you have good form. Also go watch John Dudley, school of nock, that guy explains it so anyone can understand, very very informative.

matt23 · Jul 29, 2023

Pre-64 said:
As Pickett mentioned, if everything is correct on the rest, knock, arrow etc, you could have a miss matched limb set. It’s rare but I’ve seen it happen before, it can also be a stabilizer issue. Also don’t get too hung up on “tuning” shoot some groups and see how well you are doing at distance. If you can shoot 50-60 plus, thats when you will really see if you have good form. Also go watch John Dudley, school of nock, that guy explains it so anyone can understand, very very informative.

Thanks man. I'm headed to the range tomorrow. I can only shoot up to 40 in my back yard.

archeryjh · Jul 30, 2023

Just throwing this out there. I had a bow that i couldnt get rid of the tail right tear once. after racking my head against the wall and trying everything under the sun, I started checking all the screws and stuff and making sure they were all tight. Boom!! right tear fixed. again this is after checking EVERYTHING else.

Bigwiffy · Jul 30, 2023

What gpi are your arrows? 300 may be a little heavy. Find a 9.5 gpi arrow 350ish with 100 grain fieldpoint. My Dad had a Ritual shot great with a 28" arrow at 9.5 gpi. You may be overspined.

MtnHillbilly · Jul 31, 2023

Id try a 250 arrow personally. assuming moving the rest didn't help? it was mentioned earlier to do that. have you tried moving the rest? I'm actually having the same problem but with a Bowtech solution SS and I'm beginning to think its me as its a new bow for me and a shorter ATA than ive ever shot in 25years. don't plan on shooting beyond 30 so im not overly concerned at the moment. you could also try a 75grn point just to test spine of your current arrow. I've found spine charts to be inconsistent and sometime flat out wrong... so many bows with crazy cams and what not.

matt23 · Jul 31, 2023

MtnHillbilly said:
Id try a 250 arrow personally. assuming moving the rest didn't help? it was mentioned earlier to do that. have you tried moving the rest? I'm actually having the same problem but with a Bowtech solution SS and I'm beginning to think its me as its a new bow for me and a shorter ATA than ive ever shot in 25years. don't plan on shooting beyond 30 so im not overly concerned at the moment. you could also try a 75grn point just to test spine of your current arrow. I've found spine charts to be inconsistent and sometime flat out wrong... so many bows with crazy cams and what not.

Yes I have moved the rest. I actually changed the rest tons drop away. I'm taking it into another shop tomorrow. I picked up some 250 spine and I have some 350 spine. I'm going to shoot them all and see what happens.

MtnHillbilly · Jul 31, 2023

matt23 said:
Yes I have moved the rest. I actually changed the rest tons drop away. I'm taking it into another shop tomorrow. I picked up some 250 spine and I have some 350 spine. I'm going to shoot them all and see what happens.

good deal.. ive been moving rest and cams a lot and keep getting a tear, ive come to grips with it being me. I have 2 torn shoulders so I can shoot enough to work it out so I've decided to go with max of 30 yards. after taking 15 bulls not one of them was outside of 30 anyway

matt23 · Jul 31, 2023

Bigwiffy said:
What gpi are your arrows? 300 may be a little heavy. Find a 9.5 gpi arrow 350ish with 100 grain fieldpoint. My Dad had a Ritual shot great with a 28" arrow at 9.5 gpi. You may be overspined.

The 300 spine arrows I have are 9.5 gpi. At least that's what the charts say. I have shot both 100 grain and 125 field points through it. I posted below that I have some 350 spine I'm going to shoot as well.

matt23 · Aug 1, 2023

Thanks for all the tips and info guys. Got it figured out. It's shooting bullet holes now. The timing on the rest is super sensitive I guess at least that's what I was told. The bow shop made some minor adjustments on the rest and tied a new d-loop and it's good to go now.