bullet weight for mule deer

Andyman (Guest) · Sep 10, 2003

This year, since I didn't draw a muzzleloader tag, I will be going on my first rifle deer hunt. I will be using a rem. model 700 in 30-06. I have decided to use Winchester Failsafe ammo. The bullet weights are; 150gr 165gr 180gr. The flight path is +- one inch at 400 yards for all weights, so trajectory is not a problem. What weight is best for mule deer and why?

kingfish · Sep 10, 2003

Andyman,
If your three inches high at 100 yards with any of those bullets you will be - (low) at 400... It's not + - one inch at 400 yards..more like 6" to 10" low...I would choose 150gr and sight my rifle 3 inches high at 100 yards.

DMV (Guest) · Sep 10, 2003

Andyman,
All those bullet weights will work just fine on mule deer. I'd pick the most accurate weight for your gun. I'd sight it in 1.5 inches high at 100 yds and don't hold off the top of or over any deer. Go out and shoot your choice at 200, 300 and 400 and hold dead on your target so you know the actual drop of your rifle.

The failsafes I've shot haven't been accurate enough for 400 yd deer shots. You could try the ballistic Silvertip as they shoot better in all my guns. I also have had the Remington corelok bullets in 30-06 perform perfectly on deer at all those bullet weights. If your not limited to factory ammo there's lots of better hunting bullets for long range deer shooting than the failsafe in my experience.
If you sight in 3 inches high at 100 I think your too high at 150yds where lots of good shots occur. 3 inches is too high if your hunting the sage country where you seldom see the whole deer to shoot at. My expirence is that most of the time I overshoot rather than undershoot and I've had more problems with the 2.5 to 3 inch high than a lower impact point. (pre rangefinder and target turret days) Be advised I get closterphobic if there's more than one tree around so I rarly get shots under 100 yds and few past 300 yds. What kind of country you hunt changes the whole equation. If everything's likely to be over 200 yds the 3 inch high at 100 works great.
You may want to recheck that +- one inch difference in the flight path and look how high the bullet is at 100 or 200 to get that impact at 400 yds. I bet the 400 yd one inch difference is not with the same 100yd impact point.
Good luck

kingfish · Sep 10, 2003

In my humble opinion if you sight in at 1.5 at 100 your going to be way to low at 300..I also agree that most of your shots will be 200 or shorter and all you have to do is hold on the shoulder but on the occasional 300+ yard shot you would have to hold over your target to drop one in the vitals at 1.5 high at 100... Never hold over your target!!!. I sight everything in at 3 inches high at 100 (270, 300 Weatherby mag) and can kill deer humanly up to 400 yards...Longer shots hold higher on the shoulder...Shorter shots hold lower on the shoulder...Just my 2 cents....

LongRangeShooter (Guest) · Sep 10, 2003

I would find something in the 120 grain range, sighted in 6 inches high at 100 yards. That should carry well out to 300 yards. Then compensate a little for shots out to 500. I know it sounds like not enough lead but it will do the trick.

odie401 (Guest) · Sep 10, 2003

I used Failsafes in my .338 Win. Mag. and I will never use them again. Minimal to no expansion. Might as well use solids. Plus they didn't group as well as just about every other brand of ammunition I tried with my Boss equipped Browning A-Bolt II. Maybe they work different in a 30-06. I use 165 grain BTSP Federal Premiums in my 30-06 and they work just fine on deer and group very well.

DMV (Guest) · Sep 10, 2003

I'm glad to hear someone else can't get any accuracy out of the Failsafes. You won't read that in any hunting magazine. I had the same lack of expansion with the failsafes as well as the Barnes and swift sciracco's. Can't argue with the Federal BTHP 165gr choice at all.
I take exception to the .30 cal 120gr bullet for deer and the 6 inches high and your good to go out to 500 yds theory. Your not bad at 500 but that's it. I agree 120 is enough lead but in the .30 cal the S.D. is less than .20 on all the bullets in my books and I think that is trouble in terms of penetration and reliable bullet performance on deer size game. Also the B.C. on those bullets stinks compared to the heavier bullets and you don't get enough increase in velocity to make up the losses. The 4 or so inches in drop you save at 500(if you are 2 inches high at 100) over the heavier bullets is a nonfactor for most shooters but the 7 or 8 inch increase in a 10mph winddrift at 500 can make a difference. If you're going to use 120 gr bullets may as well shoot a 25-06 or .270 and get a S.D. closer to .25 that most say is the minimum for hunting game animals and get less drop and less winddrift at the same time.
Looking at the ballistic books and given reasonable assumptions the 1.5 high at 100 makes you dead on at 200, 6 to 7 inchs low at 300 and around 22 or 23 inches low at 400. Most mule deer are 16 to 24 inches or more from brisket to back. I hold on the top of or just over the shoulder blade if it's around 300 and put the crosshair on their back at around 400. The crosshair can cover 4 inches (varies depending on scope and power)at 400 and therefor you can get a heart shot or take out some arteries on most low shoulder shots. Hold halfway up and try to break the off shoulder on any decent buck out to around 300 and he won't go far.
The 3 inches high at 100 for deer isn't bad or wrong especially if you shoot everything with that hold. Most of my shooting is at coyotes and 3 inches high resulted is lots of high misses on my easiest shots and is why I went to 1.5". Also I couldn't make myself aim at the sage brush that covered the bottom part of the deer and had some overshoots and a few hits in that nomansland between the spine and lungs or high lungs and had to do more tracking than I like.
Good luck

BrianID · Sep 11, 2003

I would shoot the 150 grn bullet for deer sized game for a 30-06 because it will shoot flater and hit the animal at a higher velocity. I would choose a faster expanding bullet if you are only going to be hunting deer. Failsafes are normally used for larger game like elk. I have shot deer with my .300 win mag and 180 grn failsafes and have had good results. I only found one of the bullets because the failsafes blow clean through deer sized game. The bullet I found expanded perfectly but I only shoot failsafes at deer because I am normally hunting elk at the same time.

Andyman (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

thanks for the advice on the failsafe bullets. I'll look into something that expands better(any suggestions?). What I meant about the 1" difference was that if all wts. are dead on at 200 yds there is only 1" off difference at 400 yds.

wrhunter · Sep 11, 2003

It's funny how everyone complains about failsafes for deer. Well, duh, that's not what they were designed for!

I hunt deer and elk at the same time, too- and failsafes are a good choice. The mule deer I shot last year at 25 steps with my 7 mag and a 175 gr. failsafe went about 30 yards. Good enough performance for me!!

I have also seen a lot of meat ruined with 'deer' bullets like ballistic tips. Those dang things explode!!

Take care, Josh.

OSOK · Sep 11, 2003

You guy's read way to many Boddington articles!!!

BrianID · Sep 11, 2003

If used a 30-06 and was going to hunt with factory loads I would shoot 150 grn Remington's Cor-Lokt bullets. I know that there are other good bullets out there but I have seen a number of good results from the Cor-Lokt bullets.

jdmck2 (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

I have used 165 gr for years but I use the same bullet for moose 150psp would be a better DEER round.When I picked up my last box from the sport shop they gave me a magazine by wichester with trajectory etc for all the different calibers and grains they make see if your sprt shop has them or go to thier web site and most likley find the same info

RLH (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

if you're going to use a factory load, try horndady light magnums in 165 gr. shoot a little over 3000 fps. work real well. hornady has a blend of powder that gives them optimum velocity but doesn't build up unsafe pressure. check em out. they work real well. i've never liked failsafes or any of the other copper bullets with the "petals". just as well use solids. winchester used to make a bullet called a black talon. it was the most viscious thing i've ever seen. they quit making them because the gang bangers were shooting each other with them with devastating effect and if a bullet did stay in one of the turdheads, dr.'s were getting cut on them. then they came up with the failsafe, but it ain't near the bullet. but really, try the light magnums. they work real well.

odie401 (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

"It's funny how everyone complains about failsafes for deer. Well, duh, that's not what they were designed for!"

Absolutely correct BUT I've used them in Africa with my .338 Win. Mag. and they blew through EVERYTHING including an Eland (lung shot) which is a 2000 lb animal, lengthwise through a Wildebeest, through a Kudu (heart shot), lengthwise through a Zebra (heart shot) and a Sable (neck shot).

I was on a combo moose/woodland caribou hunt and could only take one rifle to the satelite camp. I shot a caribou five times through the chest (running after the first shot). They only slowed him down. I swear every rib was broken but only knick out the heart, lungs and liver each were evident. It finally took a sixth shot into the neck to put him down permanently. I really don't like to take neck shots especially at a running animal even though they are pretty effective.

In all the hunts mentioned above I recovered NONE of the bullets and, I and my guides could not decern ANY difference between the size of the entrance and exit wounds.

odie401 (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

I don't know if it is still true but when Hornady light magnums first came out their were certain guns they recommended they not be shot with. I have absolutely nothing against using the ammunition otherwise.

DAM (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

I use 165's in the 06 for everything I shoot with it. I handload so I get better velocity than factoy loads. Sight in 2.5 high at 100 yds hold dead center on the animal as far as anyone has any business shooting at any animal with any gun. Good luck in the field.

bobcatbess (Guest) · Sep 11, 2003

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY TIMES WE'VE GOT TO SAY IT

FAILSAFE AMMO IS THE WORST CHOICE YOU COULD MAKE!!!

BARR ALL!!!

GET SOME REAL AMMO AND SHOOT TO KILL WHAT YOUR AIMING AT!!!

I GUESS YOU THINK I'M BULLSHITTING YOU,WELL I AIN'T!!!

THE ONLY bobcat GOING TO SAY IT ONE MORE TIME,YOU SHOULD DRINK SILVER BULLETS NOT SHOOT THEM!!!

fisrtcoueswas80inches · Sep 11, 2003

+- one inch aint happening with a 30-06 at 400 yards. mien is 3 inches high at 100 with 125 grain bullets and 1 inch low at 300 but all the weights will work fine
casey

BigPig · Sep 12, 2003

I'm with RLH. I love the Hornady light magnums. I have killed numerous wild boar, an elk and a deer with them and experienced perfect results. They shoot sub one inch in all my rifles and I think they expand properly AND penetrate. I think they would be about perfect on mule deer as long as they shoot well in your rifle (I bet they will).

etoh (Guest) · Sep 24, 2003

Unless you hand load I wouldn't use anything but core-lokts. I couldn't get fail safes to shoot either and I'll never use Ballistic Tips again. Ballistic tables are only a guidline. Only way to know how your rifle shoots at 300 yards is to shoot it at 300 yards.

freedivr2 · Sep 24, 2003

150 grain Nosler Partitions or 165 grainers, whichever floats your boat. 150s will be flatter, 165s will give you a little more ummmpphhhhhh on impact. Try both at the range, and whichever gives you a better group at 100 and 200 yds, that's the one.....

kingfish · Sep 25, 2003

Free hit the nail on the head!!!. Shoot what ever your rifle groups the best..Rifles can be particular when it comes to bullets...I just went to the range yesterday and shot some of the best groups in my life with Winchester supreme silvertip ballistictips....I had gone two days prior and was not happy with the groups I was shooting with federals....

shedcrazy (Guest) · Sep 25, 2003

130 grain barnes x. Has NEVER failed me yet.

shed

Andyfan (Guest) · Oct 13, 2003

I would go with the 165gr. You have enough knock down power with 165gr so I really wouldn't go 180gr, and with 150gr you don't want to take any risk of going to small, even though 150gr is sufficient. Just play it safe without overdoing it.