Can I buy this person a beer? 4 lions killed after Gov signs bill?

elks96

Long Time Member
Messages
3,802
I had someone claim that these 4 lions were all killed the day that the Governor signed in the new bill. I am sorry but 4 lions in the hours right after a law was signed is amazing and I would like to buy the person a beer…. I think the guy was full of it?

That being said, can anyone clarify. Under the new law signed by the Gov. the bios still set quotas and once the quota is hit, the area closes. It that correct? That state bios still set the quota, just now instead of having a specific lic. Everyone can hunt and trap until the quota is hit?

697FEDD1-42D8-460A-930C-5B6AC8218BEA.png
 
I hope they came off the north end of the Monroe!

If I find out who it was, I’ll send you the bill 96.

That looks like a really short bed, white or silver, ford pickup. Ask for more pictiures 96.
 
They Told You Wrong!

They Were All Killed Within Minutes of each other!

They Started Season Early!

And Now The KING & Others Will Wet Themselves Thinking:

There Must Be Millions Of Them In DRATville!

And It Must Be the ONLY F'N Issue With The Deer Herd!

Chalk Another 49+ reasons Why & You'll Almost Be There!



I had someone claim that these 4 lions were all killed the day that the Governor signed in the new bill. I am sorry but 4 lions in the hours right after a law was signed is amazing and I would like to buy the person a beer…. I think the guy was full of it?

That being said, can anyone clarify. Under the new law signed by the Gov. the bios still set quotas and once the quota is hit, the area closes. It that correct? That state bios still set the quota, just now instead of having a specific lic. Everyone can hunt and trap until the quota is hit?

View attachment 107695
 
Lumpy, I gave all my high powered rifles away. Can I borrow one of yours? Better yet, I better bring you along because you get out of the truck faster than I.
 
Lumpy, I gave all my high powered rifles away. Can I borrow one of yours? Better yet, I better bring you along because you get out of the truck faster than I.
Apparently you haven’t watched me exit a truck in a while!! I’m going to apply for a “vehicle discharge cougar compromise”
 
Elkster-

Nobody, including Vanilla, said mountain lions are the "only problem" that our deer herds are facing. While predation is a significant problem, it is only one of many problems that exist.

The funny thing about mountain lions is that while you constantly ***** and moan about Utah's piss poor deer herds, you are constantly defending lions and pushing back on any efforts to reduce their numbers. You regularly post that there are few lions left and no mature toms to chase. Are you a houndsman by chance? Do you run dogs in your spare time? I cannot figure out why you are constantly defending lions and arguing against any efforts to limit their numbers given your deep concern for our deer herds.

According to Utah's Cougar Management Plan, there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 lions in the state. I think that number is conservative. A mature lion kills on average 40-50 deer a year. Let's say there are only 1,000 mature lions in the state. How many deer are those lions killing every year? Far more than all sportsmen combined - including those darn "opportunity hunters."

I am aware of 11 mountain lions that were killed by sportsmen without hounds (harvest objective and spot-and stock tags) in the last three months. That is just in my small circle of friends and acquaintances. These are guys who went out without dogs and hunted lions in the winter months. This also tells me that there are more cats out there than we may think.

I hope some of the recent changes will put more pressure on our mountain lion population. Frankly, every lion taken by a sportsmen will likely save tens if not hundreds of mule deer. Harvesting some additional lions will not solve all of our problems but it will do a heck of a lot more good for our herds then cutting additional buck tags year after year and hoping those bucks miraculously give birth. ;)

We can debate these issues further during our ride through the basin later this year!

Hawkeye
 
JUDAS hawky!

I Never Said Lions Don't Kill & Eat Deer & Elk!

Do I Stand Up For Houndsmen?

DAMN F'N Straight I Do!

You're Convinced There's Lions Behind Every GAWD-DAMNED Tree!

WRONG Again hawky!

The Coyotes In This State Are Doing Way More Damage Than You Think They Are & You Never Once Mention Coyotes!

In Your Mind Your BABY-STEPS Are Gonna Fix Everything!

WRONG Again!

It's Not:

We can debate these issues further during our ride through the basin later this year!

It's We Will & Like I Said:Bring Your Sharp pencil & A Notebook!








Elkster-

Nobody, including Vanilla, said mountain lions are the "only problem" that our deer herds are facing. While predation is a significant problem, it is only one of many problems that exist.

The funny thing about mountain lions is that while you constantly ***** and moan about Utah's piss poor deer herds, you are constantly defending lions and pushing back on any efforts to reduce their numbers. You regularly post that there are few lions left and no mature toms to chase. Are you a houndsman by chance? Do you run dogs in your spare time? I cannot figure out why you are constantly defending lions and arguing against any efforts to limit their numbers given your deep concern for our deer herds.

According to Utah's Cougar Management Plan, there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 3,000 lions in the state. I think that number is conservative. A mature lion kills on average 40-50 deer a year. Let's say there are only 1,000 mature lions in the state. How many deer are those lions killing every year? Far more than all sportsmen combined - including those darn "opportunity hunters."

I am aware of 11 mountain lions that were killed by sportsmen without hounds (harvest objective and spot-and stock tags) in the last three months. That is just in my small circle of friends and acquaintances. These are guys who went out without dogs and hunted lions in the winter months. This also tells me that there are more cats out there than we may think.

I hope some of the recent changes will put more pressure on our mountain lion population. Frankly, every lion taken by a sportsmen will likely save tens if not hundreds of mule deer. Harvesting some additional lions will not solve all of our problems but it will do a heck of a lot more good for our herds then cutting additional buck tags year after year and hoping those bucks miraculously give birth. ;)

We can debate these issues further during our ride through the basin later this year!

Hawkeye
 
I Think You've Got A Comprehension Issue hawky?

You Don't Wanna Admit There's 49+ Other Issues With The Suffering Deer Herd!

I Offered To Make Money Bets/Wagers With Several of You But Not One Of You Wanna Wager any Money!

Think hawky!

Think!

Look At The BIG Picture!

Look Past Just The Lions Killing Deer!

A Question for You hawky?

Have You Got Kids?

Grand-Kids?
 
Bessy-

Who kills more mule deer in the state of Utah every year? Mountain lions or sportsmen?

Just to show you how to answer a question . . . Yes, I have 3 kids. I took my new son-in-law out last year for his first ever deer hunt. He only harvested a “piss-cutter,” but he had a great time and is looking forward to hunting again this year. My son just completed a hunter’s safety and this will be his first year hunting. When the time comes, I will let him shoot any legal buck that he chooses. And I guarantee you that we will have a great time in the field. But then again, we are just opportunity hunters. ?

Hawkeye
 
Do I Stand Up For Houndsmen?

DAMN F'N Straight I Do!

Maybe you ought to stand up for deer hunters the same way? Well, never mind.

Maybe if you’d pull your head out of some cougar’s butt long enough you’d actually understand that you are literally the only person that has proposed 1 thing. I think Hawkeye, others, and I have been abundantly clear that there are a ton of issues that we want looked at, while all you want to do is cut deer tags or shut units down. So keep up your fight to end deer hunting. The men in the room will keep fighting for the deer so hunters have a chance.
 
Nice hawky!

I've Never Heard You Or The KING ever Mention Your Concern For Future Generations?

I Myself Have Thought About It Alot!

Like You've Heard Me Say:

I Don't Care If I Ever Take Another Animal!

I Would If I Got The Chance At The Right One!

But I Ain't Shootin a PISSCUTTER Just To Say/Bragg That I Got One!

Nor The BS Excuse of:I Needed The Meat!

You Ever Add Up What Deer Meat Costs In The Finished Form?

That Excuse Cracks Me Up!

Or?

How Bout: It Was a Big Bodied 2 Point?

Ya!

I'd rather See The kids/Grand-Kids Get A Chance Os Something Half Decent!

But If Hunting Keeps Going Down Hill Just As You Know It Will,How Many Kids Do You Think Will Even Wanna Hunt?







Bessy-

Who kills more mule deer in the state of Utah every year? Mountain lions or sportsmen?

Just to show you how to answer a question . . . Yes, I have 3 kids. I took my new son-in-law out last year for his first ever deer hunt. He only harvested a “piss-cutter,” but he had a great time and is looking forward to hunting again this year. My son just completed a hunter’s safety and this will be his first year hunting. When the time comes, I will let him shoot any legal buck that he chooses. And I guarantee you that we will have a great time in the field. But then again, we are just opportunity hunters. ?

Hawkeye
 
Hey KING Niller?

Read Horsecorns Posts!

If You're PISSED At Me For Cutting 10 Tags You're Really Gonna Lose Your Cool When He Gets a Couple Of Closures!

The DWR Cut Some Tags & In The KINGS Mind That's OK But Don't Anybody-else Suggest It!

Think About The Closure KING!



Maybe you ought to stand up for deer hunters the same way? Well, never mind.

Maybe if you’d pull your head out of some cougar’s butt long enough you’d actually understand that you are literally the only person that has proposed 1 thing. I think Hawkeye, others, and I have been abundantly clear that there are a ton of issues that we want looked at, while all you want to do is cut deer tags or shut units down. So keep up your fight to end deer hunting. The men in the room will keep fighting for the deer so hunters have a chance.
 
Before You Wet yourself hawky for Me Not Answering The Question:

According To Your Lion Numbers:

156,000 approx

How Many Deer Do Coyotes Kill in a Year?

How Many Deer Get Killed In Road-Kills?

How Many Deer A Year Get Killed In Fences?

How Many Deer Are Poached Every Year?

How Many Deer Are Harvested By DRATS Every Year?
I Will Expect An Answer On This One From You Or The KING Since Mandatory Harvests Never Happen!

There's Many More reasons of Death On Deer Than What I Just Posted!

How Many Deer Were Taken By Winter-Kill this Year?

Add Em Up Boys!

EDIT:I Better Mention Bears!

I Don't Want cantkillathing Mad At Me For Leaving Bears Out Of The Equation!:D
 
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Bessy-

I’ve shot 3 deer in the last 15 years, including out of state hunts. First of all, I should disclose that I’m not a very good hunter. In addition, however, I personally don’t feel the need to shoot an animal just to fill a tag. For me, hunting is much more about the experience. That being said, I have no problem with other sportsmen deciding for themselves whether or how to fill their tag.

My first buck when I was 14 years old was a little 2x2, and I was ecstatic. My son-in-law was thrilled with the small 3x4 he shot this past year. You may not like it but I know people that hunt just for the meat. As long as sportsmen are complying with the applicable laws, it’s not our place to tell them what they can or should shoot. Once again hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds!

And yes, I am very concerned about the future of hunting for our kids and grandkids. In my opinion, trophy hunting and the commercialization of hunting pose much greater threats than “opportunity hunters.” Perhaps we should teach our kids to focus on the experience with family and friends in the outdoors instead of judging whether a hunt or an animal is “half decent” based upon inches. It all about perspective.

Hawkeye
 
Well hawky!

That's Kinda What I've Been Saying!

Glad Your SIL Got a 3X4!

I'm Not Telling Anybody what To Shoot!

But You Know As Well As I Do There's A Bunch Of Them POUNDING PISSCUTTERS For IG/FB & Etc Just For The LOOK AT ME,I Filled My Tag!

I'm Glad To Hear You're Concerned!

I've Never Heard The KING Mention It?

Bessy-

I’ve shot 3 deer in the last 15 years, including out of state hunts. First of all, I should disclose that I’m not a very good hunter. In addition, however, I personally don’t feel the need to shoot an animal just to fill a tag. For me, hunting is much more about the experience. That being said, I have no problem with other sportsmen deciding for themselves whether or how to fill their tag.

My first buck when I was 14 years old was a little 2x2, and I was ecstatic. My son-in-law was thrilled with the small 3x4 he shot this past year. You may not like it but I know people that hunt just for the meat. As long as sportsmen are complying with the applicable laws, it’s not our place to tell them what they can or should shoot. Once again hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds!

And yes, I am very concerned about the future of hunting for our kids and grandkids. In my opinion, trophy hunting and the commercialization of hunting pose much greater threats than “opportunity hunters.” Perhaps we should teach our kids to focus on the experience with family and friends in the outdoors instead of judging whether a hunt or an animal is “half decent” based upon inches. It all about perspective.

Hawkeye
 
Bessy, I don’t think it’s the opportunity crowd that is pounding our herds so that they can post on FB and IG. I think you are anger and blame are misdirected. But once again, hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds!

Hawkeye
 
There's A Bunch Of Them That Do It!

I Ain't One Of Them!

Bessy, I don’t think it’s the opportunity crowd that is pounding our herds so that they can post on FB and IG. I think you are anger and blame are misdirected. But once again, hunters are not the limiting factor for our deer herds!

Hawkeye
 
How Bout The Top End Getting Knocked Out Every Year?

Even Though That Size Keeps Getting Smaller By The Year!

It Still Gets Knocked Down & Out!

And There Ain't A Joe Blow Hunter That Can Compete With It!
 
There's Rumors of a CLOSURE COMMITTEE being Formed!

I've Seen The Closures!

SAD We Had To Hunt it Down To Nothing & They Had To Happen!
 
Bessy, you and horsecorn aren’t getting a closure and you’re full of crap.

You always talk about wagering…name the terms and let’s see if there wager on a closure. None of this vague whining like a school girl crap you do 99.99% of the time.

Let’s do it! Put up or shut up. It’s time.
 
"There's 49 other things......"

Got rid of bait

"There's 49 other things"

Cams.

"There 49 other things"

Tech

"There's 49 other things"

Cats

"There's 49 other things"

Tag cuts

"There's 49 other things "

Apparently, if we don't do 49 others things at exactly the same day, same hour

"There's 49 other things"
 
Before You Wet yourself hawky for Me Not Answering The Question:

According To Your Lion Numbers:

156,000 approx

How Many Deer Do Coyotes Kill in a Year?

How Many Deer Get Killed In Road-Kills?

How Many Deer A Year Get Killed In Fences?

How Many Deer Are Poached Every Year?

How Many Deer Are Harvested By DRATS Every Year?
I Will Expect An Answer On This One From You Or The KING Since Mandatory Harvests Never Happen!

There's Many More reasons of Death On Deer Than What I Just Posted!

How Many Deer Were Taken By Winter-Kill this Year?

Add Em Up Boys!

EDIT:I Better Mention Bears!

I Don't Want cantkillathing Mad At Me For Leaving Bears Out Of The Equation!:D
I will field this one bess.

So 156,000 deer killed by cats that's your numbers.

So coyote's: my guess is not a ton of adult deer but they do hit the fawn crops pretty hard. Even still probably fewer than the cats. Now what has been done about it? Well a lot actually, they have state trappers and aerial hunting in the problem areas, they have implemented a bounty on them that gets used heavily by a lot of people to help incentives people to hunt them. Could it be better yes we could do better, but it is being addressed.

Road kill: way to many deer being killed on the roadways, but they are putting up fencing and over/under passes where it makes sense, and I am assuming that work will continue. So while it's probably never going to be fixed it is being addressed.

Fences: good number of deer killed in fences every year, but still not nearly the numbers killed by lions. That said the dwr are working with ranchers, conservation orgs, and other state agencies to put up deer safe fencing any where they can. It's not going to cure the problem but hopefully it helps, and is being addressed where it can be.

Poaching: some deer get poached no doubt about it, but it's no where near a problem to the overall heath of the herd and they have programs to help incentivese people for turning people in. Personally I don't feel it's near the issue it probably was 20+ years ago, but still an issue and everyone should help to stop it.

Drat hunters: well since there is around 85,000 tags issued and the harvest % is well below 50% I would say less than 40,000 deer killed by hunters every year. BUT!!!....here is the catch, of that 40,000 probably less than 3% are doe's and since the doe's are the important piece to the herd growth problem then even the mighty DRAT hunters are not having near the effect as the lions that just for safe numbers we will say is killing 60% does. 60% of 156,000 deer is a big number bess. That is 93,000 doe's to cats and that is on the low end, and 12,000 doe's to hunters on the high end. And a majority of those killed by hunters are in areas they have found they need to remove them such as farm land and what not. Cats are doing a number on the deer herd, way more than the DRATS.

Winter kill: some units got hit extremely hard this winter, not much the DWR could do about that but it does suck, but a lot of areas have done really well and this winter is going to help boost those areas deer numbers in the next couple years.

Bears: bears are again killing lots a fawns, but I doubt they are killing a large number of adults. But I say we open up the Bear hunts as well, you are right bess we got way to many of them stinking bears we should be killing a lot more of them.

So how did Ido bess?

Out of the list I see two major problem areas, roads, and predators, we are pretty limited on what we can do with the roads, but coyote's, bears, and lion's? Let's get after them and make a difference, what do you say Bess? And I know there are a number of other things that are contributing hell you might even say 50+ other things right?, but the two major problems are roads and predators. I guess if you really wanted to you could say hunters are probably #3 on the list, but being as that is the main driver of why we want to grow the population is to hunt them more I don't see how we can list it as one of the main issues. If we was killing copious amounts of doe's every year like Colorado I would be right there with ya, but in Utah that is not the case.
 
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Not Really MY NUMBERS JakeH!

The DWR GUESSTIMATES The Number & hawky & Others Believe it/Take it To Heart!

I Done The Math off Of What hawky Posted!

But Ya!

Add All The Factors Up To What's Really Happening & It's Not Hard To See What's Going Down!

You Done Great JakeH!

Now If We Had The Rest Of The Reasons Listed That All Add Up Maybe More People Could See The Light!

There's No Way To Count/Add The Total Number Of Road-Kills Up But It'd Blow Most Peoples Mind if The Truth Be Known!
 
Bessy, that’s what all of us have been saying for the last 1,000 posts. There are many factors impacting our deer herds but hunters are not the limiting factor. So your continued campaign to cut buck tags and close units would do nothing to grow our herds. And when the state does something to try to help our deer herds (e.g., take more lions) you whine and complain. Wake up!

Hawkeye
 
Now If We Had The Rest Of The Reasons Listed That All Add Up Maybe More People Could See The Light!

You had your chance just for one unit and pussed out. All Whoopi wants to do is end deer hunting so his precious lions have more forage. I didn’t realize that for a while, so shame on me, but I now know the motivation.
 
There's Rumors of a CLOSURE COMMITTEE being Formed!

I've Seen The Closures!

SAD We Had To Hunt it Down To Nothing & They Had To Happen!
Oh boy! Here's what history has shown: Close a unit with nearly no deer for 5 years. Open it back up. Kill tons of record book bucks. I've seen it happen on Pauns, Henry's, and Book Cliffs (although Book Cliffs is garbage now.)
Maybe my wife's and my nearly 30 points will actually pan out after all. lol
 
JUDAS hawky You're THICK Headed!

Not Quite As THICK Headed As The KING Though!

I Did Mention Cutting A Few Tags In Hopes Future Hunters Might Have A Chance To Take A Buck of a Little Better Age Class!

I Didn't Know The DWR Had Already Cut a Few Tags,So If I Had Known That Prior To Saying That I Might Not Of Mentioned/Said it?

Do You Hear That?

I Didn't Know Until JakeH Posted That The DWR Had Already Cut A Few Tags,YOU HEAR THIS?GEEZUS It Ain't Sinking In,Is It?

Are You As Mad At The DWR For Cutting a Few Tags As You Are At Me For Suggesting It?

ANSWER F'N PLEASE!

It Was Horsecorn That Suggested Closing a Unit,NOT ME!

But He's Not Really Wrong!

Both Me & Him Seen Several Units Closed!

Kinda Sad that It Came To Closures!

Don't Think For A F'N Minute It Can't Happen Again!

This Morning I Posted Just A Few Factors!

There Are Many More!

You & The KING Can Add To The List!

GIT-R-F'N-DONE!




, that’s what all of us have been saying for the last 1,000 posts. There are many factors impacting our deer herds but hunters are not the limiting factor. So your continued campaign to cut buck tags and close units would do nothing to grow our herds. And when the state does something to try to help our deer herds (e.g., take more lions) you whine and complain. Wake up!

Hawkeye
 
Bessy, I surrender.

Having a conversation with you over the Internet is pointless. You don’t read what others post. You don’t comprehend what they’re saying. You don’t answer basic questions. And you talk in circles. Perhaps, I will have more luck in person during a ride through the Basin, but I’m not optimistic.

Hawkeye
 
Hey hawky!

No Sense In Surrendering!

We Are Just Getting Started!

I'd Just Like To Know:

Who You More Mad At?

Me?

Or?

The DWR?

Remember:

I Mentioned It!

And The Had Already Done It!



Bessy, I surrender.

Having a conversation with you over the Internet is pointless. You don’t read what others post. You don’t comprehend what they’re saying. You don’t answer basic questions. And you talk in circles. Perhaps, I will have more luck in person during a ride through the Basin, but I’m not optimistic.

Hawkeye
 
Better Ask hawky!

He Hinted He Was Picking Me Up?

So I Take It We're Taking His Rig?

Yes I'll Be Helping Out With Fuel Costs!

But MrShane I Don't Know If I Dare Eat Any Of The Treats?:D

I Think He Wants To Poison Me?:D

You'll Have To Ask hawky & Niller?

I'm More Than Fine With It!

I think I would buy a ticket to hop aboard this ‘Basin Ride’!
What snacks are included in purchase price?
 
I’m not mad at you or the DWR. I just realized that having a conversation with you online is like talking to a wall. Hopefully, things will go better in person but I’m not holding my breath. Carry on with the nonsense!

Hawkeye
 
Not Really MY NUMBERS JakeH!

The DWR GUESSTIMATES The Number & hawky & Others Believe it/Take it To Heart!

I Done The Math off Of What hawky Posted!

But Ya!

Add All The Factors Up To What's Really Happening & It's Not Hard To See What's Going Down!

You Done Great JakeH!

Now If We Had The Rest Of The Reasons Listed That All Add Up Maybe More People Could See The Light!

There's No Way To Count/Add The Total Number Of Road-Kills Up But It'd Blow Most Peoples Mind if The Truth Be Known!
Bess I decided to dig into this even further, I went through the current statewide muledeer plan and found these pages to be pretty interesting to our discussion.

First is the statewide deer hunters and harvest numbers notice there was a huge drop in tags, but also we have been way under 50,000 harvested deer since 1995. So my estimate of 40,000 was definitely on the high side, and just to point out again the vast majority of those are bucks not doe's
Screenshot_20230411_223447_Drive.jpg


Secondly this picture really in my mind shows the true driver of our population decline state wide. Look at those coyote and lion numbers, 43% of our GPS collard deer that have died in a 6 year time frame from 2014 to 2019 were killed by lions, and coyotes. But that wasn't even my biggest takeaway, look at how many died of malnutrition and remember these stats come from the years when our drought conditions we're probably at there worst. So an additional 19% died due to the range not being able to support them. That right there is the biggest curveball to the system because there is literally nothing we can really do about it.
Screenshot_20230411_223523_Drive.jpg


While this winter has been bad for parts of the state, I think it is going a long way to improving the whole state's drought conditions, and if we can get that under control as well as have a couple of more mild winters we will see a large and fairly fast recovery in places.

While I don't always agree with the Utah DWR , I feel they have been trying to manage the state the right way.

I also feel that the conservation organizations have been doing a lot of really good habitat work the past 15-20 years, and maybe, all that has been needed was a few good water years and some time for it to really prove fruitful. My hope is things can start turning around as we have been fighting all aspects of the list you posted earlier and it's just going to take some time to get the ship turned around and headed in the right direction. I think a winter like this could be the turning point.

And while I don't think we will ever reach the haydays of the 50's and 60's again I think things can improve significantly.

Or maybe I'm just optimistic, only time will tell.
 
Weather Is A Big Factor That We Can Add To The List & We Can't Do A Whole Lot To Change It!

Even Though This Winter Will Help!

It Also Hurt!

Don't Ever Try & Out Guess Mother Nature!

She'll Throw You a Curve Every Once In a While!
 
What does something that happened 30 years ago have to do with what I’m saying? You keep saying closures are coming. Well…are you sure enough to put some skin in the game?

Or are you just full of crap and yapping?
 
I Didn't Say It Was Happening!

I Said:

Keep Pounding It Down & It Could!

1,000's of DRATS said it Could Never Happen The First Time But It Damn Sure Did!

Horsecorn Might Get a Committee Going To Close Em!

Then Who You Gonna Be PISSED At?

Well Me Of Course!



What does something that happened 30 years ago have to do with what I’m saying? You keep saying closures are coming. Well…are you sure enough to put some skin in the game?

Or are you just full of crap and yapping?
 
So you’re saying you are scared to back up your illogical ramblings by putting some skin in the game. Got it!

Nobody really questioned that, but it’s good to get it in writing.
 
You Ain't Seen Ramblin Yet!

You Act Like You Don't Believe They Closed Several Units In This State Several Years Back When there Was No Other Choice!

Maybe They Won't Close them Again!

But If Horsecorn Gets His Way, You Ain't Gonna Like It!



So you’re saying you are scared to back up your illogical ramblings by putting some skin in the game. Got it!

Nobody really questioned that, but it’s good to get it in writing.
 
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