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1DEER1I
Guest
So which would you choose for arrows, I am going to buy some more before the hunt roles around and all I have ever bought is carbon. Should I stick with it or which would you choose and why?
ELKOHUNTER
Very Active Member
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- 1,838
carbon!!
H
HKShooter
Guest
That depends on if you are Chuck Adams and get paid $$$$$$ for saying aluminum arrows are great or if you are a regular Joe who wants to kill more animals and shoot your arrows more than once.
Carbon is a no brainer.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND USE CARBON EXPRESS TERMINATOR SELECTS
Carbon is a no brainer.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND USE CARBON EXPRESS TERMINATOR SELECTS
K
Kdub
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jul-09-08 AT 11:15PM (MST)[p]About the Chuck Adams comment. Don't you think that if Chuck was being forced into an arrow by a paycheck the company would want him to shoot their most expensive arrow???
Shoot an arrow with both! I won't shoot an arrow unless it has aluminum in it. Though there are really good all carbons out there. Especially the new Easton Nano's, they're sweet. Talkin with Brenden Burns the other day and he says they're dope! I have shot FMJ's for the last three years and they shoot incredible groups. Sure they might bend if you miss, but the performance is well worth it. I've never had a hunting arrow wad up so tight. Spine is the most important aspect in finding an arrow that will group. And arrows with aluminum by nature have the best consistency in spine. And you can take that to the bank!
Aluminums are a lot less expensive than carbons with the same tolerances. You could buy the good 'ol gamegetter xx75's and they would have a better tolerance than most top dollar all carbons. Actually Easton has an aluminum arrow right now with a two-year warranty. If it ever goes out of spec they will replace it. Go to their website for more details. I just saw it on there a few weeks ago.
They're are also a lot more choices in size with Aluminum's. So it's a snap to get the perfect size. It's amazing when you get the perfect spined arrow. It's like they effortlessly crash on top of each other in the middle of the X. Then I've had arrows that would tune a perfect bullet hole and not group at all.
I am not saying that aluminums are best for everyone, but don't close your mind to them just because some famous person that you're really jealous of, chooses to shoot them.
Shoot an arrow with both! I won't shoot an arrow unless it has aluminum in it. Though there are really good all carbons out there. Especially the new Easton Nano's, they're sweet. Talkin with Brenden Burns the other day and he says they're dope! I have shot FMJ's for the last three years and they shoot incredible groups. Sure they might bend if you miss, but the performance is well worth it. I've never had a hunting arrow wad up so tight. Spine is the most important aspect in finding an arrow that will group. And arrows with aluminum by nature have the best consistency in spine. And you can take that to the bank!
Aluminums are a lot less expensive than carbons with the same tolerances. You could buy the good 'ol gamegetter xx75's and they would have a better tolerance than most top dollar all carbons. Actually Easton has an aluminum arrow right now with a two-year warranty. If it ever goes out of spec they will replace it. Go to their website for more details. I just saw it on there a few weeks ago.
They're are also a lot more choices in size with Aluminum's. So it's a snap to get the perfect size. It's amazing when you get the perfect spined arrow. It's like they effortlessly crash on top of each other in the middle of the X. Then I've had arrows that would tune a perfect bullet hole and not group at all.
I am not saying that aluminums are best for everyone, but don't close your mind to them just because some famous person that you're really jealous of, chooses to shoot them.
H
HKShooter
Guest
Get real. If I gave you $100K a year to shoot wooden arrows and all you had to do was say they are great...you'd jump on wooden arrow train. Actually, Chuck has lightened his hardcore stance on alum vs carbon in recent years. I just think he's a well paid mouth piece and he annoys me everytime he gives one of those fakearrrss cheeezzzy smiles. Hardly jealous. He has accomplished amazing things with a bow and is a great hunter. That don't mean I have to love everything he says or fall in line like most sheep. BAAAAAAAA. Between the four of us in my family I've only owned about 50 dozen arrows over the years, so I know what I like. Most of the early dozens were alum. I've owned the half & halfs too. I'm telling you once you shoot a good solid carbon you'll never look at another alum.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND SHOOT YOUR ARROWS MORE THAN ONCE
HK
GO HARD KORE AND SHOOT YOUR ARROWS MORE THAN ONCE
K
Kdub
Guest
For someone that's not jealous of Chuck, you sure know a lot about him. All joking aside, don't you think that if Easton wanted to push an arrow on their shooters it would be the most expensive hunting arrow they make?? I know Chuck and trust me he shoots what he is the most confident and had the most success with.
I never said anyone had to fall in love with what Chuck shoots either. I was only saying you were wrong about him. We are all entitled to our own opinions. I only gave my opinion on what I thought would be best in all three categories. But what do I know? I have only been shooting the same batch of hunting arrows for the last three years. The same two dozen A/C Pro Tours for outdoor target for two years. And the same two dozen of 2315 Aluminum?s for indoor target for three years. You have been through 50 dozen! My simple 6 dozen arrows don't hold a candle to what you've done. Maybe when I hit that 50 dozen mark I could be taken serious like yourself. I just thought that if guys wanted to hit the middle with the least amount of effort they might want to try what has worked for me and countless other professional archers.
There are a lot of good arrows out there. The key is to find what works the best for you or if you're looking for something new, keep an open mind to what has worked for others.
PS. Chuck Norris shoots Aluminum?s... Tell me he's not hard core.
I never said anyone had to fall in love with what Chuck shoots either. I was only saying you were wrong about him. We are all entitled to our own opinions. I only gave my opinion on what I thought would be best in all three categories. But what do I know? I have only been shooting the same batch of hunting arrows for the last three years. The same two dozen A/C Pro Tours for outdoor target for two years. And the same two dozen of 2315 Aluminum?s for indoor target for three years. You have been through 50 dozen! My simple 6 dozen arrows don't hold a candle to what you've done. Maybe when I hit that 50 dozen mark I could be taken serious like yourself. I just thought that if guys wanted to hit the middle with the least amount of effort they might want to try what has worked for me and countless other professional archers.
There are a lot of good arrows out there. The key is to find what works the best for you or if you're looking for something new, keep an open mind to what has worked for others.
PS. Chuck Norris shoots Aluminum?s... Tell me he's not hard core.
H
HKShooter
Guest
Now I know you're making this stuff up.."countless other professional archers..." Please. Show me pictures/stats of these countless archers. Or just names. Or better yet, how about a top 10 finish with an all alum arrow in say any regional/state/local/backyard shoot.
I'm sure when them new fangled aluminum arrows first came out there were lots of wood arrow guys who thought the wood arrows were just as good if not better....Oh and the 50 dozen is conservative. I went through 4 arrows in the last 2 days. Hunting season usually takes 8-10 arrows... I think you'll find if you have carbons, you'll have more fun shooting stumps, grouse, chimpmunks, 100 yard dirt banks etc, because you get to shoot your arrow again and again and again.
But now that I think about it, since you know and respect Chuck Norris and Chuck Adams and they shoot aluminums maybe everyone who shoots carbons are wrong in thinking they are a superior arrow. That's it if the Chucks say it's so then come on everyone trade your carbons in for aluminums...seems kinda silly doesn't it...
HK
GO HARD KORE AND TURN BACK THE CLOCK TO CHUCKYS' ALUMINUM ARROWS
I'm sure when them new fangled aluminum arrows first came out there were lots of wood arrow guys who thought the wood arrows were just as good if not better....Oh and the 50 dozen is conservative. I went through 4 arrows in the last 2 days. Hunting season usually takes 8-10 arrows... I think you'll find if you have carbons, you'll have more fun shooting stumps, grouse, chimpmunks, 100 yard dirt banks etc, because you get to shoot your arrow again and again and again.
But now that I think about it, since you know and respect Chuck Norris and Chuck Adams and they shoot aluminums maybe everyone who shoots carbons are wrong in thinking they are a superior arrow. That's it if the Chucks say it's so then come on everyone trade your carbons in for aluminums...seems kinda silly doesn't it...
HK
GO HARD KORE AND TURN BACK THE CLOCK TO CHUCKYS' ALUMINUM ARROWS
K
Kdub
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jul-10-08 AT 05:22PM (MST)[p]
Hopefully this link works this time..
Here you go. Ever heard of Randy Ulmer??? This was at a 100-yard tightest group with broadheads competition. Randy shoots FMJ's and ACC's. Yup arrows with aluminum in them. The arrows sprayed everywhere else but the x ring are from someone else shooting an all carbon arrow. I think that of all people Randy Ulmer is going to shoot with what is best.
He is shooting a Hoyt Katera and Easton ACC 3-60.
I am not on here to start a big pissing match about what is better. All I told you is that you are wrong about Chuck. And obviously you do not know what you're talking about.
Hopefully this link works this time..
Here you go. Ever heard of Randy Ulmer??? This was at a 100-yard tightest group with broadheads competition. Randy shoots FMJ's and ACC's. Yup arrows with aluminum in them. The arrows sprayed everywhere else but the x ring are from someone else shooting an all carbon arrow. I think that of all people Randy Ulmer is going to shoot with what is best.
He is shooting a Hoyt Katera and Easton ACC 3-60.
I am not on here to start a big pissing match about what is better. All I told you is that you are wrong about Chuck. And obviously you do not know what you're talking about.
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HKShooter
Guest
I think with words like "you do not know what you're talking about."...you'll get a pissin' match with just about anyone around here. I don't know Chuck A, but I've read literally hundreds of his articles. I read 4-5 mags a month about archery and hunting and I have a good library of hunting books over the years. I keep up with the industry in general pretty well. I know what I'm talking about. But back to the question you so obviously misread. Show me one competition archer who shoots an ALL ALUMINUM arrow and wins with it or atleast places in the top 10 at say any event anywhere. I think even you will see the obvious numbers are against alums being superior. You are correct on ONE point though. They are cheaper than most good carbons. Good luck this season.
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
HK
GO HARD KORE OR DON'T GO AT ALL
K
Kdub
Guest
Your wish is my command. These results are not from any old tournament. They are taken from the five major Pro circuits held worldwide. IBO, ASA, NAA, NFAA and FITA. These guys shoot bows for a living. Below you will see in chronological order all of the major 2008 tournaments and a few other majors that are not sanctioned. As you will see the results are pretty much in favor to arrows that have aluminum in them.
So can I put this to bed and have you agree that I'm right? And yes there are a few all carbons in the mix.
Notice there are no archers shooting Carbon Express Termanawhatevers?
Tournament, Archer, Bow, Arrow
Utah Open, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
The Delta Iowa Pro-Am, Chance Beaubouef, PSE, Easton Aluminum
Lancaster Archery Classic, Reo Wilde, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Nimes European Archery Tournament., Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton Fatboy
Gainesville, Levi Morgan , Mathews, Gold Tip
NAA Indoor Nationals, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Vegas Shoot, NFAA, Dave Cousins , Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Hattiesburg, ASA, Chance Beaubouef, PSE, Easton Fatboy
European Indoor Championships, FITA, Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton Fatboy
National Indoor Championship, NFAA, Chance Beaubouef. PSE, Easton Aluminum
Archery World Cup Stage 1, FITA, Dave Cousins , Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Paris, ASA, Levi Morgan , Mathews, Gold Tip
Arizona Cup, NAA, Braden Gellenthien, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
European Outdoor FITA, Morgan Lundin, Mathews, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Archery World Cup Stage2/ EMAU GP, Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Stanislawski Open, NFAA, Scott Starnes , Martin , Gold Tip
Texas Shootout, NAA, Roger Willett, Mathews, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
TBD, ASA, Tim Gillingham, Mathews, Gold Tip
Redding, Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
1st Leg IBO Triple Crown, IBO, Darin Christenberry , Mathews, Easton Aluminm
Gold Cup, NAA Reo Wilde, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Archery World Cup Stage 3/ EMAU GP, Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
London, ASA, Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
National Field Championships, NAA, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
World Field Team Trials, NAA, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
2nd Leg IBO Triple Crown, IBO Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Archery World Cup Stage 4/ EMAU GP, Pat Coghlan, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Metropolis, ASA, Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
So can I put this to bed and have you agree that I'm right? And yes there are a few all carbons in the mix.
Notice there are no archers shooting Carbon Express Termanawhatevers?
Tournament, Archer, Bow, Arrow
Utah Open, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
The Delta Iowa Pro-Am, Chance Beaubouef, PSE, Easton Aluminum
Lancaster Archery Classic, Reo Wilde, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Nimes European Archery Tournament., Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton Fatboy
Gainesville, Levi Morgan , Mathews, Gold Tip
NAA Indoor Nationals, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Vegas Shoot, NFAA, Dave Cousins , Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Hattiesburg, ASA, Chance Beaubouef, PSE, Easton Fatboy
European Indoor Championships, FITA, Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton Fatboy
National Indoor Championship, NFAA, Chance Beaubouef. PSE, Easton Aluminum
Archery World Cup Stage 1, FITA, Dave Cousins , Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Paris, ASA, Levi Morgan , Mathews, Gold Tip
Arizona Cup, NAA, Braden Gellenthien, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
European Outdoor FITA, Morgan Lundin, Mathews, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Archery World Cup Stage2/ EMAU GP, Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Stanislawski Open, NFAA, Scott Starnes , Martin , Gold Tip
Texas Shootout, NAA, Roger Willett, Mathews, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
TBD, ASA, Tim Gillingham, Mathews, Gold Tip
Redding, Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
1st Leg IBO Triple Crown, IBO, Darin Christenberry , Mathews, Easton Aluminm
Gold Cup, NAA Reo Wilde, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Archery World Cup Stage 3/ EMAU GP, Sergio Pagni, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
London, ASA, Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
National Field Championships, NAA, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
World Field Team Trials, NAA, Dave Cousins, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
2nd Leg IBO Triple Crown, IBO Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
Archery World Cup Stage 4/ EMAU GP, Pat Coghlan, Hoyt, Easton A/C X10 Pro Tour
Metropolis, ASA, Dan McCarthy, Hoyt, Easton Aluminum
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HKShooter
Guest
Okay...congrats on finding the backyard part of sponsor driven shooters who get paid to shoot alums. I never said I was a tournament target guy. Of course they shoot a different carbon than the one they would shoot at an elk DAAAAAAAAAAA. Hell half the guys on that list have never seen an elk in wild. I shoot big game not paper targets all year. And the point HERE IS HUNTING ANYWAY. Regardless the Gold Tips bend too. You win if you were going for 1 alum win out of 1,000, but otherwise give it up or you'll force me to rub your nose in the stats you convienently found err made look significant errr manufactured. Like I said before sheep go baaaaaa and if the Chucks say alum then the loyal sheep will follow baaaaaaa.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND FOLLOW WHATEVER ANYONE FAMOUS SAYS TO DO
HK
GO HARD KORE AND FOLLOW WHATEVER ANYONE FAMOUS SAYS TO DO
AZtrophyhunter
Active Member
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- 774
HK, you look like an idiot right now. Just stop talking.
BOHNTR
Long Time Member
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- 4,339
HKShooter Quote: "Show me pictures/stats of these countless archers. Or just names. Or better yet, how about a top 10 finish with an all alum arrow in say any regional/state/local/backyard shoot."
HK, now in all fairness you asked the question and Kdub not only answered it, but posted the actual results for you. Now are you suggesting that Dave Cousins and Dan McCarthy are "backyard shooters"?
As for Chuck, I've met him and have discussed issues with him. Make no doubt about it, if he didn't feel aluminum was better for HIM.....he wouldn't shoot them. Remember, he's a finger shooter that doesn't necessarily want "faster".....he's always like arrows that are easy to tune with a wide variety spines and heavy. JMO
BOHNTR )))---------->
HK, now in all fairness you asked the question and Kdub not only answered it, but posted the actual results for you. Now are you suggesting that Dave Cousins and Dan McCarthy are "backyard shooters"?
As for Chuck, I've met him and have discussed issues with him. Make no doubt about it, if he didn't feel aluminum was better for HIM.....he wouldn't shoot them. Remember, he's a finger shooter that doesn't necessarily want "faster".....he's always like arrows that are easy to tune with a wide variety spines and heavy. JMO
BOHNTR )))---------->
backinthegame
Active Member
- Messages
- 754
WOW. I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone act like such an idiot...and continue to do so even after they've been PROVEN WRONG. HK, buddy, you went down in a ball of flames. I wish I could tell you how tired I get of people like you.
S
springbear
Guest
Well, I can pretty well tell how tired you get with "guys" like him....
I never gave much thought to it, as I have shot them both. After reading this thread, I am going to go break out my XX78's and shoot them... I think I still have a few that I have not ran through an elk or deer.
That is one hell of a group at a hundred yards with BH's no less!!
I never gave much thought to it, as I have shot them both. After reading this thread, I am going to go break out my XX78's and shoot them... I think I still have a few that I have not ran through an elk or deer.
That is one hell of a group at a hundred yards with BH's no less!!
H
HKShooter
Guest
The orginal question was: So which would you choose for arrows, I am going to buy some more before the hunt roles around and all I have ever bought is carbon. Should I stick with it or which would you choose and why?
I didn't know there were so many loyal aluminum shooters out there. Must have stepped on some toes.LMAO Besides razzin a rifle hunter is fun. I was given him a bad time. I know damn good and well alums can kill a critter and can do well in a shoot, eventhough the vast majority of shooters shoot carbons (wonder why). Stay tuned and I'll give you some stats (not selected stats) so you "guys" can start calling kdub names...real mature.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND PISS OFF THE ALUMINUM ARROW GUYS
I didn't know there were so many loyal aluminum shooters out there. Must have stepped on some toes.LMAO Besides razzin a rifle hunter is fun. I was given him a bad time. I know damn good and well alums can kill a critter and can do well in a shoot, eventhough the vast majority of shooters shoot carbons (wonder why). Stay tuned and I'll give you some stats (not selected stats) so you "guys" can start calling kdub names...real mature.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND PISS OFF THE ALUMINUM ARROW GUYS
backinthegame
Active Member
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- 754
LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-08 AT 03:36PM (MST)[p]I don't shoot aluminums...I just don't like guys that can't admit when they're wrong. Yeah, carbons are popular. They're popular because they're good arrows. (Most of 'em anyway) Funny how you discount all the info that doesn't support your style. And funny how you now claim that it was all a joke!!! Well maybe you're right because we all sure as hell were laughin!!!
H
HKShooter
Guest
backinthegame, take a pill tough guy. It wasn't all a joke, some of it is very serious OPINIONS. Everyone has an opinion about gear and I guess for you it gets personal. I guess I razzed him too hard. Sometimes sarcasim doesn't carry well on paper, which is my fault. It's obvious at least to me those shooters are for real and my sarcasim didn't register. I'll end this on Randy Ulmers' article on this topic.
Randy Ulmer Home | Sponsors | Photo Gallery | Gear Mon 5 Feb 2007
THE ULTIMATE HUNTING ARROW
Posted by Randy under Feature Articles
I shoot Easton AC Super Slim 400 arrows fletched with 2.5-inch vanes having 7 degrees of helical offset and tipped with 100-grain broadheads. My arrow specifications are the result of many years of intense competition and demanding bowhunting. An entire summer 3-D season or fall hunting season often comes down to just one or two shots - one arrow for all the marbles. After investing all that time and money, I will only trust the very best arrows on the market.
I can back up all my arrow choices with test data from both formal and informal sources. As I said, I didn't come by my arrow selection without considerable time and testing. Here is why I prefer Easton?s aluminum carbon composite arrows.
WIND DRIFT
AC super Slim arrows are roughly .265 inches in diameter. Compare that to roughly .375 inches for a popular 2413 aluminum arrow or the large diameter carbon arrow shafts. From the side, a 30 inch Super Slim has a side surface area of 7.95 square inches. The 2413 has a side surface area of roughly 11.25 square inches ? 1.4 times more than the Super Slim.
In my hands a smaller diameter shaft requires less fletching to stabilize it's flight. Smaller fletching reduces the side surface area even further. When you shoot small diameter carbon arrows in a crosswind, they exhibit less sideways drift than larger diameter arrows. This is because there is less surface area against which the wind can bear.
By reducing wind drift under challenging conditions, you make your arrows more forgiving of aim point errors and changes in weather conditions. In other words, if you forget to account for wind speed, these smaller diameter arrows are likely to bail you out under typical bowhunting conditions.
The difference is substantial. By switching from large diameter aluminum arrows to small diameter carbon composite or all-carbon arrows with smaller fletching, you can literally cut your wind drift by more than one half.
Wind drift is a larger concern for western hunters than for eastern hunters. However, even in wooded settings (where trees partially break the wind) you need to allow for some arrow drift when the crosswind exceeds 5 to 10 mph. A small diameter arrow is more likely to save the shot if you forget this last second adjustment.
DOWNRANGE ARROW SPEED
In 1993, AFC Carbon Arrows of Chatfield, MN (the company is no longer selling arrows) completed an independently verified test of penetration and downrange loss of arrow speed. The tests compared the qualities of both small diameter carbon arrows and typical aluminum arrows of the same weight. Though the testing did not include ACC arrows, the results are still enlightening because the carbon arrows used in the test were close in diameter to AC Super Slims.
Due to friction with the air, arrows slow down the farther they get from the bow. The greater the surface area of an arrow, the faster it slows down. At 40 yards, AFC?s testing showed that the carbon arrow lost 7% of its initial speed while a 2312 (of the same weight) lost 8.4% of its initial speed. The test only went out to 40 yards, but I know from my own testing that the difference between aluminum and carbon arrows begins to increase even faster beyond 40 yards. This is roughly the amount of difference you would find between Super Slims and popular aluminum or large diameter carbon arrows. Granted, this is not a huge difference, but this is a tough game and I'll take every advantage I can get.
IMPROVED PENETRATION
The carbon shaft in the test cited in the previous section weighed 493 grains. It penetrated more than 40% deeper into both Ethafoam and silica sand than the aluminum 2312 (which weighed 494 grains) against which it was compared. That is an astonishing advantage for the smaller diameter arrow.
I also recently studied data from a test conducted by Outdoor writer Bill Winke and his father. They designed the test to measure broadhead penetration, but it also shed some light on penetration issues related to arrow selection. The carbon shafts were internal component models including the Beman ICS Hunter 340 at 319 grains (without the head) and Carbon Express 400 with 3 grains per inch weight tubes at 389 grains total (without the head). The aluminum shaft was again the 2312 this time at 367 grains (without the head).
The data revealed that both carbon arrows did measurably better than the aluminum (even though one weighed considerably less) penetrating roughly 15 to 25% deeper depending on the arrow and the backstop.
Diameter appears to be the greatest reason that carbon shafts do so well in these tests. As the diameter goes down so does the surface area - reducing friction and resistance as the shaft slips into the target. The outside diameters of the two shafts tested in 1993 were .233 inch for carbon and .360 inch for the 2312. As I already stated, AC Super Slims have an outside diameter of roughly .265 inches.
Some will argue that any testing in solid testing media will never simulate live animal tissue. I can't argue with them. But the numbers and my own experiences are so compelling that they can't be ignored. It is my firm position that smaller diameter carbon arrows such as the Super Slims penetrate better than large diameter arrows of the same weight.
On a side note, some carbon arrow experts believe that the stiffness of carbon arrows aids in their penetration advantage. They have the ability to dampen out vibration quickly on impact, possibly directing more kinetic energy down the centerline of the shaft where it does the most good. While I don't have any direct testing to support this view, I have found a different reason to prefer stiff arrows. My arrow groups tighten up measurably when I shoot arrows that are slightly ?stiff? for my draw weight and draw length. It is certainly worth considering this option if you use a release aid.
FLETCHINGS PRODUCE STABILITY
When you stuff arrows into a small, shafts-touching circle in your backyard target, you increase your confidence and your readiness for the hunt, but you actually diminish the quality of your arrows. Repeatedly smashing and slapping your arrows together in the target will cause weak spots, slight bends and skewed nocks. Often, these disturbances are minor and not evident to the eye, yet they cause inconsistent accuracy.
An arrow needs to spin to reduce the affect of these small inconsistencies. It's important to note that even arrows equipped with field points will plane if they come out of the bow other than dead straight. You need a high degree of helical offset to stabilize your arrows quickly and keep them from wandering. I apply the most helical offset my fletching jig will allow while still creating proper adhesion. Easton?s experts recommend five to seven degrees, for most situations. Few bowhunters carry a protractor in their tackle box, so just max out your jig and you will achieve the desired results.
Large doses of helical offset once created tuning problems because the fletching inevitably contacted the rest and kicked the arrow off line. Today?s drop-away arrow rests eliminate this problem and I heartily recommend them with aggressive helical fletched arrows.
CONSISTENT CONSTRUCTION
So far, I have built my case for small diameter carbon arrows. Now I'm going to take my argument one step farther and show you why I choose Easton?s AC Super Slim arrows over all other carbon shafts.
I realize that aluminum carbon composite arrows are among the most expensive arrows on the market but they are well worth it. The processes used to make ACC?s (and Beman Carbon Metal Matrix shafts, too for that matter) are much more painstaking than those used to make other carbon arrow styles. This lengthy process demands respect among serious bowhunters ? and a higher price tag.
Easton starts with a small aluminum core tube having a .007-inch wall thickness. Easton has a very precise process for straightening aluminum tubes (arrow shafts) and this one is straight to within +/- .002 inch. This makes ACC?s among the straightest shafts on the market.
After straightening the core tube, the technicians apply a layer of longitudinal carbon fibers over the tube. Carbon cannot be straightened, but since the carbon covers a super-straight aluminum tube, no straightening is needed. The finished arrow takes the straightness of the aluminum tube but possess the strength, stiffness and durability of carbon. ACC shafts (and all other aluminum carbon composite shafts) have the potential to possess the best attributes of carbon and the best attributes of aluminum.
A very tight straightness tolerance is just one small aspect of the ACC and AC Super Slam?s consistency. Because of the core tube and ability to grind the outside wall of the shaft with a center-less grinder, these arrows have very precise wall thickness and diameter measurements. There is no seam or egg-shape to these carbon arrows as can occur with some carbon models. You don't have to float them in your bathtub to find the ?high spot? or roll them on a table like you would the tip section of a fly rod blank to find the stiff side. There isn't a high spot or a stiff side; they are perfectly uniform - the most uniform arrows on the market that are still practical for bowhunters.
ACC?s give you consistent straightness, consistent weight (within +/- .5 grains per dozen) and consistent spine. Not only that, but they accept internal components and exhibit all the best qualities of improved penetration, reduced wind drift and increased down range velocity.
I own a shooting machine and have done quite a bit of arrow testing. The AC Superslims and ACCs group consistently better out-of-the-box than any other arrow I have experimented with. That's why I shoot Easton AC super Slim arrows.
Sidebar: Number Your Arrows
Arrows take a beating when you practice with them for several weeks. They slap and clatter together until their straightness and spine tolerances degrade. The small variations between arrows that result from common wear and tear will influence your accuracy.
Start with a dozen arrows. Ideally, they are brand new, but if you can't afford to buy a fresh dozen, at least spring for six new shafts. Number each arrow. Start with a clean target and put field points on your arrows. Shoot all of them at the paper at your maximum accurate range. Don?t pay any attention to the numbers on the arrows before you shoot them. In fact, make a conscious effort not to look at them so you won't bias the test. When you go to pull the arrows, write the corresponding number next to each hole.
Shoot every arrow at least six times and then look at the target to see what patterns are forming. You will likely have an arrow or twothat consistently fly wide of the mark. Typically, I find that the vast majority of my arrows fly close to the same hole though a few might hit too far from the center to be acceptable. This is where a shooting machine really earns its keep. Target shooters, in particular, will benefit from this level of arrow-to-arrow consistency. However, bowhunters will too when the differences uncovered are great enough. Obviously, I rotate the nock on the loose grouping arrows and shoot them again until they come in to the group. If I can't get them to group, I pull them out of my quiver before the season.
Sidebar: Comparing Arrow Drift to Wind Speed and Direction
As a rough indication of wind speed and direction, drop a handful of two to three-inch tufts of grass at arm?s length from roughly the height of your belly button. For every 10 mph of wind speed, the clippings will drift three feet before hitting the ground. It is a rough gauge, but this indicator will serve as a reference to compare your practice conditions to your hunting conditions. Also, if the wind is not a direct crosswind it won't cause the arrow to drift as much as if it were perpendicular to the direction of the shot. Account for this both when practicing and when shooting at game.
As I already stated, small diameter arrows with modest fletching drift less in a crosswind than larger diameter arrows, but they do drift, and you need to account for wind drift when confronted with a shot across windswept, open settings.
Sidebar: The Proper Balance Point
Your arrow?s balance point will affect its trajectory and stability inversely. For example, an arrow that is ?tip light? will remain a little more level in flight and will actually plane or sail along a flatter trajectory than one of the same weight but with a heavier nose. But, tip light arrows don't correct quite as quickly when they come out of the bow. The closer the arrow?s center of gravity (balance point) gets to its measured center the less stable the arrow will be in flight.
The AC Super Slim arrows that I prefer balance very well with a 100 grain point and 2 1/2-inch vanes, producing a balance point that is right in the ideal sweet spot for a hunting arrow of roughly 10% forward of center.
Good luck with your season.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND SHOOT HALF & HALF ARROWS
Randy Ulmer Home | Sponsors | Photo Gallery | Gear Mon 5 Feb 2007
THE ULTIMATE HUNTING ARROW
Posted by Randy under Feature Articles
I shoot Easton AC Super Slim 400 arrows fletched with 2.5-inch vanes having 7 degrees of helical offset and tipped with 100-grain broadheads. My arrow specifications are the result of many years of intense competition and demanding bowhunting. An entire summer 3-D season or fall hunting season often comes down to just one or two shots - one arrow for all the marbles. After investing all that time and money, I will only trust the very best arrows on the market.
I can back up all my arrow choices with test data from both formal and informal sources. As I said, I didn't come by my arrow selection without considerable time and testing. Here is why I prefer Easton?s aluminum carbon composite arrows.
WIND DRIFT
AC super Slim arrows are roughly .265 inches in diameter. Compare that to roughly .375 inches for a popular 2413 aluminum arrow or the large diameter carbon arrow shafts. From the side, a 30 inch Super Slim has a side surface area of 7.95 square inches. The 2413 has a side surface area of roughly 11.25 square inches ? 1.4 times more than the Super Slim.
In my hands a smaller diameter shaft requires less fletching to stabilize it's flight. Smaller fletching reduces the side surface area even further. When you shoot small diameter carbon arrows in a crosswind, they exhibit less sideways drift than larger diameter arrows. This is because there is less surface area against which the wind can bear.
By reducing wind drift under challenging conditions, you make your arrows more forgiving of aim point errors and changes in weather conditions. In other words, if you forget to account for wind speed, these smaller diameter arrows are likely to bail you out under typical bowhunting conditions.
The difference is substantial. By switching from large diameter aluminum arrows to small diameter carbon composite or all-carbon arrows with smaller fletching, you can literally cut your wind drift by more than one half.
Wind drift is a larger concern for western hunters than for eastern hunters. However, even in wooded settings (where trees partially break the wind) you need to allow for some arrow drift when the crosswind exceeds 5 to 10 mph. A small diameter arrow is more likely to save the shot if you forget this last second adjustment.
DOWNRANGE ARROW SPEED
In 1993, AFC Carbon Arrows of Chatfield, MN (the company is no longer selling arrows) completed an independently verified test of penetration and downrange loss of arrow speed. The tests compared the qualities of both small diameter carbon arrows and typical aluminum arrows of the same weight. Though the testing did not include ACC arrows, the results are still enlightening because the carbon arrows used in the test were close in diameter to AC Super Slims.
Due to friction with the air, arrows slow down the farther they get from the bow. The greater the surface area of an arrow, the faster it slows down. At 40 yards, AFC?s testing showed that the carbon arrow lost 7% of its initial speed while a 2312 (of the same weight) lost 8.4% of its initial speed. The test only went out to 40 yards, but I know from my own testing that the difference between aluminum and carbon arrows begins to increase even faster beyond 40 yards. This is roughly the amount of difference you would find between Super Slims and popular aluminum or large diameter carbon arrows. Granted, this is not a huge difference, but this is a tough game and I'll take every advantage I can get.
IMPROVED PENETRATION
The carbon shaft in the test cited in the previous section weighed 493 grains. It penetrated more than 40% deeper into both Ethafoam and silica sand than the aluminum 2312 (which weighed 494 grains) against which it was compared. That is an astonishing advantage for the smaller diameter arrow.
I also recently studied data from a test conducted by Outdoor writer Bill Winke and his father. They designed the test to measure broadhead penetration, but it also shed some light on penetration issues related to arrow selection. The carbon shafts were internal component models including the Beman ICS Hunter 340 at 319 grains (without the head) and Carbon Express 400 with 3 grains per inch weight tubes at 389 grains total (without the head). The aluminum shaft was again the 2312 this time at 367 grains (without the head).
The data revealed that both carbon arrows did measurably better than the aluminum (even though one weighed considerably less) penetrating roughly 15 to 25% deeper depending on the arrow and the backstop.
Diameter appears to be the greatest reason that carbon shafts do so well in these tests. As the diameter goes down so does the surface area - reducing friction and resistance as the shaft slips into the target. The outside diameters of the two shafts tested in 1993 were .233 inch for carbon and .360 inch for the 2312. As I already stated, AC Super Slims have an outside diameter of roughly .265 inches.
Some will argue that any testing in solid testing media will never simulate live animal tissue. I can't argue with them. But the numbers and my own experiences are so compelling that they can't be ignored. It is my firm position that smaller diameter carbon arrows such as the Super Slims penetrate better than large diameter arrows of the same weight.
On a side note, some carbon arrow experts believe that the stiffness of carbon arrows aids in their penetration advantage. They have the ability to dampen out vibration quickly on impact, possibly directing more kinetic energy down the centerline of the shaft where it does the most good. While I don't have any direct testing to support this view, I have found a different reason to prefer stiff arrows. My arrow groups tighten up measurably when I shoot arrows that are slightly ?stiff? for my draw weight and draw length. It is certainly worth considering this option if you use a release aid.
FLETCHINGS PRODUCE STABILITY
When you stuff arrows into a small, shafts-touching circle in your backyard target, you increase your confidence and your readiness for the hunt, but you actually diminish the quality of your arrows. Repeatedly smashing and slapping your arrows together in the target will cause weak spots, slight bends and skewed nocks. Often, these disturbances are minor and not evident to the eye, yet they cause inconsistent accuracy.
An arrow needs to spin to reduce the affect of these small inconsistencies. It's important to note that even arrows equipped with field points will plane if they come out of the bow other than dead straight. You need a high degree of helical offset to stabilize your arrows quickly and keep them from wandering. I apply the most helical offset my fletching jig will allow while still creating proper adhesion. Easton?s experts recommend five to seven degrees, for most situations. Few bowhunters carry a protractor in their tackle box, so just max out your jig and you will achieve the desired results.
Large doses of helical offset once created tuning problems because the fletching inevitably contacted the rest and kicked the arrow off line. Today?s drop-away arrow rests eliminate this problem and I heartily recommend them with aggressive helical fletched arrows.
CONSISTENT CONSTRUCTION
So far, I have built my case for small diameter carbon arrows. Now I'm going to take my argument one step farther and show you why I choose Easton?s AC Super Slim arrows over all other carbon shafts.
I realize that aluminum carbon composite arrows are among the most expensive arrows on the market but they are well worth it. The processes used to make ACC?s (and Beman Carbon Metal Matrix shafts, too for that matter) are much more painstaking than those used to make other carbon arrow styles. This lengthy process demands respect among serious bowhunters ? and a higher price tag.
Easton starts with a small aluminum core tube having a .007-inch wall thickness. Easton has a very precise process for straightening aluminum tubes (arrow shafts) and this one is straight to within +/- .002 inch. This makes ACC?s among the straightest shafts on the market.
After straightening the core tube, the technicians apply a layer of longitudinal carbon fibers over the tube. Carbon cannot be straightened, but since the carbon covers a super-straight aluminum tube, no straightening is needed. The finished arrow takes the straightness of the aluminum tube but possess the strength, stiffness and durability of carbon. ACC shafts (and all other aluminum carbon composite shafts) have the potential to possess the best attributes of carbon and the best attributes of aluminum.
A very tight straightness tolerance is just one small aspect of the ACC and AC Super Slam?s consistency. Because of the core tube and ability to grind the outside wall of the shaft with a center-less grinder, these arrows have very precise wall thickness and diameter measurements. There is no seam or egg-shape to these carbon arrows as can occur with some carbon models. You don't have to float them in your bathtub to find the ?high spot? or roll them on a table like you would the tip section of a fly rod blank to find the stiff side. There isn't a high spot or a stiff side; they are perfectly uniform - the most uniform arrows on the market that are still practical for bowhunters.
ACC?s give you consistent straightness, consistent weight (within +/- .5 grains per dozen) and consistent spine. Not only that, but they accept internal components and exhibit all the best qualities of improved penetration, reduced wind drift and increased down range velocity.
I own a shooting machine and have done quite a bit of arrow testing. The AC Superslims and ACCs group consistently better out-of-the-box than any other arrow I have experimented with. That's why I shoot Easton AC super Slim arrows.
Sidebar: Number Your Arrows
Arrows take a beating when you practice with them for several weeks. They slap and clatter together until their straightness and spine tolerances degrade. The small variations between arrows that result from common wear and tear will influence your accuracy.
Start with a dozen arrows. Ideally, they are brand new, but if you can't afford to buy a fresh dozen, at least spring for six new shafts. Number each arrow. Start with a clean target and put field points on your arrows. Shoot all of them at the paper at your maximum accurate range. Don?t pay any attention to the numbers on the arrows before you shoot them. In fact, make a conscious effort not to look at them so you won't bias the test. When you go to pull the arrows, write the corresponding number next to each hole.
Shoot every arrow at least six times and then look at the target to see what patterns are forming. You will likely have an arrow or twothat consistently fly wide of the mark. Typically, I find that the vast majority of my arrows fly close to the same hole though a few might hit too far from the center to be acceptable. This is where a shooting machine really earns its keep. Target shooters, in particular, will benefit from this level of arrow-to-arrow consistency. However, bowhunters will too when the differences uncovered are great enough. Obviously, I rotate the nock on the loose grouping arrows and shoot them again until they come in to the group. If I can't get them to group, I pull them out of my quiver before the season.
Sidebar: Comparing Arrow Drift to Wind Speed and Direction
As a rough indication of wind speed and direction, drop a handful of two to three-inch tufts of grass at arm?s length from roughly the height of your belly button. For every 10 mph of wind speed, the clippings will drift three feet before hitting the ground. It is a rough gauge, but this indicator will serve as a reference to compare your practice conditions to your hunting conditions. Also, if the wind is not a direct crosswind it won't cause the arrow to drift as much as if it were perpendicular to the direction of the shot. Account for this both when practicing and when shooting at game.
As I already stated, small diameter arrows with modest fletching drift less in a crosswind than larger diameter arrows, but they do drift, and you need to account for wind drift when confronted with a shot across windswept, open settings.
Sidebar: The Proper Balance Point
Your arrow?s balance point will affect its trajectory and stability inversely. For example, an arrow that is ?tip light? will remain a little more level in flight and will actually plane or sail along a flatter trajectory than one of the same weight but with a heavier nose. But, tip light arrows don't correct quite as quickly when they come out of the bow. The closer the arrow?s center of gravity (balance point) gets to its measured center the less stable the arrow will be in flight.
The AC Super Slim arrows that I prefer balance very well with a 100 grain point and 2 1/2-inch vanes, producing a balance point that is right in the ideal sweet spot for a hunting arrow of roughly 10% forward of center.
Good luck with your season.
HK
GO HARD KORE AND SHOOT HALF & HALF ARROWS
Crazy4Elk
Active Member
- Messages
- 294
LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-08 AT 07:28AM (MST)[p]I shot carbon until just recently, that is when a carbon shattered on release and imbedded into my left had. 6months of therapy and thousands of dollars later I have switched to aluminum. Now I know aluminum can break also..it's just a head thing. Hopefully I will switch back to carbon one day. But since I have switched I have had no complaints about groups or consistency.
E
elkantler75
Guest
i have heard of several carbon arrow accidents and i dont like what i hear. i switched over to aluminum this year just beacause i dont want to pull carbon out of my arm or hand.
T
TexMexTheBowhuntingAlien
Guest
1DEER1I, Shoot the arrow that works best for YOU!! If you are a novice and can't hit your target, your arrows will bend. If you can keep your arrow in the target, it shouldn't really be a problem. If you enjoy shooting stumps and dirt banks at 100 yards while hunting, shoot whatever HK is shooting.
If you want to elevate your game you need to shoot an arrow that is consistently spined and has a high straightness tolerance. Even though a solid carbon arrow gets shot in the dirt and is still "shootable" doesn't necessarily mean it is straight. Carbon can bend just like aluminum can (maybe not as easily, but it still bends believe it or not). It can also be straightened, but in my opinion is not worth the effort (you have to exceed the plastic deformation limits in exactly the opposite direction of the bend, and by how much? More of an art than a science). One misplaced shot on a target out of todays high velocity/energy bows can easily derail the best carbon arrows on the market just as it can an arrow with aluminum. Sometimes you can get lucky: last Christmas I shot 3 deer with the exact same A/C/C and grim reaper broadhead. I don't expect that to happen, but sometimes it does.
As far as being able to repeatedly shoot carbons that have been shot in the dirt, just refer back to Randy Ulmer's advice on stacking your arrows in the same place on a TARGET and the effects it can have on them. If he advises not to do it on a target designed to securely stop your arrow, I wouldn't do it on stumps, etc. expecting anything better. Now some nerung might say, "Don't do it just because the bowhunting celebs do it! You stupid sheep, baaaa!" Well 1DEER1I, you have 2 options at this point, follow the advice of a bowhunting legend who is a Doctor, intelligent, and not a nerung, or follow the advice of a guy who miss-spells Core in all of his lame, not-so-tough tag lines and continually proceeds to piss everyone off.
If you are content playing patty-cake with HK as he shoots arrows at 100 yd dirt banks while hunting, be my guest. I won't be hunting broke back mountain so it doesn't affect me. If you want to put a group of arrows in a cantaloupe at 100 yds and kill a lot of animals because you aren't playing when you should be hunting, then shoot a half and half. The FMJ is my arrow of choice.
BE ANNOYING LIKE HK AND NEVER KNOW WHEN TO SHUT UP!!
If you want to elevate your game you need to shoot an arrow that is consistently spined and has a high straightness tolerance. Even though a solid carbon arrow gets shot in the dirt and is still "shootable" doesn't necessarily mean it is straight. Carbon can bend just like aluminum can (maybe not as easily, but it still bends believe it or not). It can also be straightened, but in my opinion is not worth the effort (you have to exceed the plastic deformation limits in exactly the opposite direction of the bend, and by how much? More of an art than a science). One misplaced shot on a target out of todays high velocity/energy bows can easily derail the best carbon arrows on the market just as it can an arrow with aluminum. Sometimes you can get lucky: last Christmas I shot 3 deer with the exact same A/C/C and grim reaper broadhead. I don't expect that to happen, but sometimes it does.
As far as being able to repeatedly shoot carbons that have been shot in the dirt, just refer back to Randy Ulmer's advice on stacking your arrows in the same place on a TARGET and the effects it can have on them. If he advises not to do it on a target designed to securely stop your arrow, I wouldn't do it on stumps, etc. expecting anything better. Now some nerung might say, "Don't do it just because the bowhunting celebs do it! You stupid sheep, baaaa!" Well 1DEER1I, you have 2 options at this point, follow the advice of a bowhunting legend who is a Doctor, intelligent, and not a nerung, or follow the advice of a guy who miss-spells Core in all of his lame, not-so-tough tag lines and continually proceeds to piss everyone off.
If you are content playing patty-cake with HK as he shoots arrows at 100 yd dirt banks while hunting, be my guest. I won't be hunting broke back mountain so it doesn't affect me. If you want to put a group of arrows in a cantaloupe at 100 yds and kill a lot of animals because you aren't playing when you should be hunting, then shoot a half and half. The FMJ is my arrow of choice.
BE ANNOYING LIKE HK AND NEVER KNOW WHEN TO SHUT UP!!
backinthegame
Active Member
- Messages
- 754
I told you HK, I don't shoot aluminum arrows. My opinion is that a carbon shaft makes a superior hunting arrow. But that doesn't mean at all that aluminum doesn't have it's place in the world of archery. Your article from Mr. Ulmer was nice, but I don't think anyone here was saying that carbon shafts are no good. Everyone said that they simply aren't the ONLY option. Maybe you should just stay in the Campfire forum where you belong!!!! (Ha, ha...joking.)
thicketmaster
Active Member
- Messages
- 148
I have been bow hunting for 25 years. i shoot my bow with the poundage bottomed out to make my bow the fastest it can be.and i shoot all carbon arrows because they are lighter than aluminum and when shooting at game you want the fastest flattest arrow you can get because their is less room for error.i hunt deer so penetration is not a problem.if you were hunting moose,bear,cape buffalow,ect you would my be want to use a big alumminm arrow because they penatrate more.the heavier the arrow the more penatration it has.
backinthegame
Active Member
- Messages
- 754
Mostly good info there thicketman, but arrow mass isn't the end all in penetration. That's a topic that can be debated forever, because it's hard to prove. Speaking strictly in terms of kinetic energy arrow mass vs. arrow velocity more or less end up at a wash. For example, let's say you've got a 400 grain arrow shooting 280 fps. Your KE with that set-up will be about 69.65 lbs. Now let's say you tak a 350 grain arrow and shoot it at 300 fps...your KE will be 69.96 lbs. Meaning that whether you go heavy and slower or light and faster the numbers will basically run into each other and your KE will be fairly equal. The only way to gain energy (some will argue that could be called penetration) is to change something. Like shooting heavy poundage in order to shoot a heavier arrow fast. Maybe shoot our 400 grain arrow at 300 fps instead of 280. Hopefully this makes sense. One other quick thing...it's commonly thought that a smaller diameter shaft (i.e., carbon) will penetrate better than a larger diameter, less surface area to make contact with tissue and create arrow stopping friction.
E
elkantler75
Guest
so how do you shoot a heavy arrow at 300 fps?
thicketmaster
Active Member
- Messages
- 148
take a carbon arrow with a 125 grain field tip then take a fat aluminum arrow that weighs a lot more and shoot something that you can test the penetration of course with the same bow.the heavier aluminium arrow will shoot slower but penetrate deeper weight moves weight try it>
backinthegame
Active Member
- Messages
- 754
elk75...the best way to shoot a heavier arrow faster would be to shoot more poundage. You could also lengthen your draw length, but quite a few guys and gals already shoot a draw length that's too long, and likewise might already shoot at their max draw weight, so it's not always easy to find a way to shoot that heavier arrow faster. You could always buy a faster bow!!! (Ha, ha!) Thicketmaster, some guys have found that the heavier arrows store more energy the further you get downrange and thus some guys will say they out penetrate a lighter arrow at longer ranges. Personally, I've never had an issue at all with penetration shooting carbon arrows, so for me it's almost a non-issue. But that doesn't mean we can't talk about it!
backinthegame,
You have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone knows that wooden arrows are the best. Why do you think the indians shot them so much?
Jared Teter, Ph.D.
www.teterhorn.com
You have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone knows that wooden arrows are the best. Why do you think the indians shot them so much?
Jared Teter, Ph.D.
www.teterhorn.com
backinthegame
Active Member
- Messages
- 754
Ha!!!! Gotta love the wooden shafts! Go grab yourself some then we'll catch a turkey and pluck some feathers for fletching! You might even be able to find some indian arrowheads to go with 'em!
muleymaniac81
Member
- Messages
- 33
I just got some ACC's and I think you can't go wrong with an aluminum/carbon combo. You can get light weight or heavy. Straightness is same as the rest. They eliminate the carbon worry of taking an arrow in the hand. I got ahold of the old Hyperspeed ACC's. Really wishing they were still being made. I got the last 8 that I could find. Got them set up at 360 grains with 100 grain Montec's. Getting about 290 fps outta my Commander at 68 pounds. Figures at 69.1 ft-lbs. Plenty enough for whitetails, turkeys, and muleys. If I were going after elk or moose, I would have opted for the Axis FMJ's. But, it's all a personal preference issue. Whatever you have confidence in, that's the best arrow for you.
W
we_B_huntin
Guest
This is very interesting because I was deer hunting last weekend with four freinds and I was the only one shooting aluminum arrows. They were giving me some good ribbing about that. It was all in fun. All I know is my bow is set at 75lbs and I shoot Easton XX75 2315 with 125 grain broadheads. Last year I was shooting at an elk at 49 yards, he jumped nock on me and I hit him a little far back, well really far back. I was amazed when I butcherd the elk and I had completely shattered six inches of his femer bone. I'll keep using my aluminum arrows, at least for elk.
moseleymiddleton
Active Member
- Messages
- 377
Just to go along with you when you shot your elk and broke six inches of femer what distance was the shot becouse last year i shot pse radial x weaves at 406 gr. at about 280 fps. and i shot my elk a 55 yds. and hit him three inches further forward than i wanted and blew through the round leg bone and dead centerd his heart. that is wher i found ten inches of arrow and the broad head. but with an all carbon arrow.
moseley middleton
moseley middleton
W
we_B_huntin
Guest
As I said in my earlier post I was 49 yards.
