swbuckmaster
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,004
Here is my take on what was said
SFW member/rac member wanted to keep the Le elk numbers on the snatch the same. Then said the divisions numbers are basically crap and why should they rubber stamp anything the division present. Again I say the division is not at fault and cant even do there jobs when it comes to management in this state. They are puppets to this group.
SFW member/rac member also came up with the the idea that if you shoot a bull that is 10 it will throw off the age ratio on that unit. So how is this possible when they issue hundreds of bull elk tags on this unit and the average is still over by one year? Age objective average is just that an average! Or am I the one missing something here when they use the word average?
SFW Member/rac member also said it is getting lame on these LE hunts. He said when someone draws a tag there are 30 people that also want to help the tag holder out and these extra people are causing crowding problems. WTH I guess only guides can have a possy. I guess it is a bad thing when the elk hunts are already a once in a life time hunt so if a hunter actually does draw the tag he should just tell his family to "piss off",or " draw your own tag if you want to hunt".
SFW member/rac member asked a question about the deer fawn numbers on the henry mtns. His question was "what is the fawn recruitment on this unit." Anise said 70% survival rate and you need at least 60% to grow a deer herd! Anise then said the rest of southern Utah fawn recruitment is around 40-60% survival. Well to me something is not making sense. WHY ARE THE DEER NUMBERS ON THE HENRY MTNS GOING DOWN EVERY YEAR? The objective is 2,000 and the highest its ever been is around 1500. Its now around 1200 and trending down. WTH if the fawn numbers were correct the deer herd would be growing out of control. Especially since they only issue what 30 tags a year and there isn't a doe hunt down there.
Now the buck to doe ratio on the Henry mtns is sitting at 59/100 so 10 more management tags were proposed. I'm sure there are a lot of big old crappie non broken bucks people can find right. I sure dont want to hear SFW whine next year that all of these tards were just shooting broken or young bucks like they did with the elk.
The houndsman president stepped up to the plate who is probably also another SFW member and said we need to control the real predators affecting the deer herd numbers. Man! So Im pulling this number out of my AZZ but aren't there about 2,000 estimated cougars in Utah. I am also probably low with this estimated number! Doesn't one cougar kill a deer a week. So that one cougar is killing about 52 deer a year. 52*2000= 104,000 deer. Na the cougars aren't affecting the deer like the wolves aren't affecting the elk in yellowstone! Now out of those 104,000 deer lets just say that half of the ones killed by cats are does. thats what 52,000 does? Just think if the division came out and said they wanted to kill 52,000 does a year!! Now lets just ignore that the bears are at an all time high in Utah and we all know bears dont kill deer they only eat honey and grass and help prevent forest fires!!!
Now lets get off the bash sfw soap box and point out what else was said.
One old rac dude could not believe no archery tags were being cut. He proposed we cut the archery tag numbers in half because he thinks that most of the bow hunters are in the southern and south eastern units. He also said he is sick of the rifle guys taking it in the shorts. Anise even said that most of the bow hunters did in fact hunt in those regions. WTH Didn't The actual survey the division took say that most of the bow hunters were actually hunting in the region closest to their home and this is why state wide archery was put back in place? There are 15,000 bow hunters state wide and they have half the success rate of the rifle hunters which have 78,000 tags and have a 25-31 percent success rate.
So the million dollar questions the division needs to find answers to are.
1. How do they manage a herd that is over objective by 3,000 elk without killing anything? knowing it will probably double its size again in one year.
2. How do they allow for more rifle rut tags and not have a tard shoot the best bull he sees so sfw can still kill 400" bulls on a 5 year old age objective unit?
3. We know tards are very good at killing the cream off the top during the rut and let the lesser bulls do the breading year after year. so how does the division manage for the horns SFW wants when they know the genetic pool for growing the cream is getting shot out every year?
4. How do you manage the average age objective when a tard shoots a 15 year old 5x5 no one wanted and throws the average age objective out of wack?
Now Im all for cutting tags if deer herds are going down. I just think they need to cut the crap out of the rifle and re distribute them to a lesser weapons first. Making them all equal 33% rifle 33% muzzy 33% bow 1% can go to SFW. To me this is fair. now if the deer numbers continue to go down you cut each weapon equal until the buck to doe ratio is met.
Fair is fair! This would get rid of the hunter against hunter crap and it would no doubt increase the buck numbers across this state. win win
Im sure there was other crap that was discussed but I still feel the rac's are not meant for the general public and I just went to another dog and SFW show so to speak!!
There is nothing I could have said in this meeting that would have changed the already made up minds of the rac. But then again I already new this....
SFW member/rac member wanted to keep the Le elk numbers on the snatch the same. Then said the divisions numbers are basically crap and why should they rubber stamp anything the division present. Again I say the division is not at fault and cant even do there jobs when it comes to management in this state. They are puppets to this group.
SFW member/rac member also came up with the the idea that if you shoot a bull that is 10 it will throw off the age ratio on that unit. So how is this possible when they issue hundreds of bull elk tags on this unit and the average is still over by one year? Age objective average is just that an average! Or am I the one missing something here when they use the word average?
SFW Member/rac member also said it is getting lame on these LE hunts. He said when someone draws a tag there are 30 people that also want to help the tag holder out and these extra people are causing crowding problems. WTH I guess only guides can have a possy. I guess it is a bad thing when the elk hunts are already a once in a life time hunt so if a hunter actually does draw the tag he should just tell his family to "piss off",or " draw your own tag if you want to hunt".
SFW member/rac member asked a question about the deer fawn numbers on the henry mtns. His question was "what is the fawn recruitment on this unit." Anise said 70% survival rate and you need at least 60% to grow a deer herd! Anise then said the rest of southern Utah fawn recruitment is around 40-60% survival. Well to me something is not making sense. WHY ARE THE DEER NUMBERS ON THE HENRY MTNS GOING DOWN EVERY YEAR? The objective is 2,000 and the highest its ever been is around 1500. Its now around 1200 and trending down. WTH if the fawn numbers were correct the deer herd would be growing out of control. Especially since they only issue what 30 tags a year and there isn't a doe hunt down there.
Now the buck to doe ratio on the Henry mtns is sitting at 59/100 so 10 more management tags were proposed. I'm sure there are a lot of big old crappie non broken bucks people can find right. I sure dont want to hear SFW whine next year that all of these tards were just shooting broken or young bucks like they did with the elk.
The houndsman president stepped up to the plate who is probably also another SFW member and said we need to control the real predators affecting the deer herd numbers. Man! So Im pulling this number out of my AZZ but aren't there about 2,000 estimated cougars in Utah. I am also probably low with this estimated number! Doesn't one cougar kill a deer a week. So that one cougar is killing about 52 deer a year. 52*2000= 104,000 deer. Na the cougars aren't affecting the deer like the wolves aren't affecting the elk in yellowstone! Now out of those 104,000 deer lets just say that half of the ones killed by cats are does. thats what 52,000 does? Just think if the division came out and said they wanted to kill 52,000 does a year!! Now lets just ignore that the bears are at an all time high in Utah and we all know bears dont kill deer they only eat honey and grass and help prevent forest fires!!!
Now lets get off the bash sfw soap box and point out what else was said.
One old rac dude could not believe no archery tags were being cut. He proposed we cut the archery tag numbers in half because he thinks that most of the bow hunters are in the southern and south eastern units. He also said he is sick of the rifle guys taking it in the shorts. Anise even said that most of the bow hunters did in fact hunt in those regions. WTH Didn't The actual survey the division took say that most of the bow hunters were actually hunting in the region closest to their home and this is why state wide archery was put back in place? There are 15,000 bow hunters state wide and they have half the success rate of the rifle hunters which have 78,000 tags and have a 25-31 percent success rate.
So the million dollar questions the division needs to find answers to are.
1. How do they manage a herd that is over objective by 3,000 elk without killing anything? knowing it will probably double its size again in one year.
2. How do they allow for more rifle rut tags and not have a tard shoot the best bull he sees so sfw can still kill 400" bulls on a 5 year old age objective unit?
3. We know tards are very good at killing the cream off the top during the rut and let the lesser bulls do the breading year after year. so how does the division manage for the horns SFW wants when they know the genetic pool for growing the cream is getting shot out every year?
4. How do you manage the average age objective when a tard shoots a 15 year old 5x5 no one wanted and throws the average age objective out of wack?
Now Im all for cutting tags if deer herds are going down. I just think they need to cut the crap out of the rifle and re distribute them to a lesser weapons first. Making them all equal 33% rifle 33% muzzy 33% bow 1% can go to SFW. To me this is fair. now if the deer numbers continue to go down you cut each weapon equal until the buck to doe ratio is met.
Fair is fair! This would get rid of the hunter against hunter crap and it would no doubt increase the buck numbers across this state. win win
Im sure there was other crap that was discussed but I still feel the rac's are not meant for the general public and I just went to another dog and SFW show so to speak!!
There is nothing I could have said in this meeting that would have changed the already made up minds of the rac. But then again I already new this....
