Change

[Muleman1]

So we've all had our opinions about what to do with the deer herds but how can we change it? It's us that has to step in and demand change but how ? I am willing to do almost anything to get the herds back up and secure my kids hints in the future but again how do we do that ? Strike? Gather around the DWR ? Any ideas

 

[yoteduster]

I personally think it's too late for most of our general season units and alot of the le units our deer herds have been sold out for the almighty dollar and unfortunately for most of us rank and file hunters with thin wallets IMO

 

[hornkiller]

Get rid of $.f.w. would be my 1st suggestion!

 

[Elkslayer]

+1
It's gonna have to get worse(if that can happen) for changes to be made.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

I don't believe it's too late, I just don't know how to get them to listen to us either. It can come back for sure, hardest part is getting them to make changes. I have sent letters to the dwr I have filled out different links asking for public opinion I'm brutally honest with them when they call for the Harvest data. Not sure what else to do.

 

[Muleman1]

I've done the same

 

[slamdunk]

Our first and foremost challenge is proving the DNR counts are wrong.
Until that happens, nearly nothing will change at all.

 

[elkassassin]

Changes are Way Past Due!

I've said it for years but very few Listened!

The Changes Needed are more severe than Most TARDS/DWR will Allow/Make!

Your Deer Hunting for anything Quality or anything with any age to it is Over!

We Went up to the Wintering/Rutting Grounds This Morning below where We Hunt!

Once again!

We Never seen a Buck We'd Shoot even though it's Full Rut!

We Never Seen One Single Buck that Will Turn in to anything worth a Damn!

On the Way Out We Run in to a couple Guys We Know!

I Asked Them:

If You Don't see them this time a year what does it mean?

They had the Right Answer:

They said Ya,It Means they Ain't Here!

BINGO!














I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkassassin]

Just a Simple Question for all of the MM Biologists:

When The Genetics are Shot Clear the HELL Out on some of these Units How Do You Figure they'll Recover back to what they once were?

Answers Please!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[scopenstalk]

So long as money reigns supreme and corruption runs rampant in the dwr it will never get better

 

[Homer]

there is only one answer.....30 years of compound 1080

 

[southernutahhunter]

To many tags for to few deer for to many years. Somehow we have got to send that message and make a change

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Elk, I believe that some of the great genetics are still in the does and the young bucks. There have been units that have been shot out, they give it a break and it comes back, right? I bet if SOME of those bucks you went out to look at the other day had 3 or 4 more years on them they would look pretty good. Who is to say some of the does don't have the genes to produce big bucks.

 

[notdonhunting]

Cut the elk heard in half on all units that elk and deer compete for the essentials to sustain life.

 

[elkassassin]

>Elk, I believe that some of
>the great genetics are still
>in the does and the
>young bucks. There have been
>units that have been shot
>out, they give it a
>break and it comes back,
>right? I bet if SOME
>of those bucks you went
>out to look at the
>other day had 3 or
>4 more years on them
>they would look pretty good.
>Who is to say some
>of the does don't have
>the genes to produce big
>bucks.

Well shg!

I'll be the 1st to say it takes Quality Does as Well as Quality Bucks!

But GEEZUS!

Has anybody seen the Decline in Body Size on All Deer in this State?

Our Deer are NOT Tough Animals Anymore!

I Say a Bigger Animal is Tougher than a JUNK/Small Animal!

The Body Size on most Deer of today is a F'N JOKE!

But you Still hear the BS Excuse:"I needed the Meat"

Needed the Meat on a GAWD-DAMNED Jack Rabbit Sized Buck Huh?

JUDAS!

F'N!

PRIEST!















I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[mtnrunner260]

Most units are counted from the a pickup by driving through traditional rutting areas to count as many deer as possible in the quickest time. Can say I blame them as I'm sure they have buttloads to do but
If a couple guys who had those drones they could fly after the bio went through or fly the canyon next door that is devoid of deer.
Maybe if you could show footage from the drone the dwr would believe there are less deer out there.

 

[Castnshoot]

>Our first and foremost challenge is
>proving the DNR counts are
>wrong.
>Until that happens, nearly nothing will
>change at all.


Slam I am afraid they are well aware that there numbers wrong. If that is true where do you go from there?

We need a couple of people on the inside to speak up.

 

[fullthrottle]

Well... better do something because what we have going on now sure as hell isn't working.

 

[JT]

I've been joking about it for years now, but the truth is that it's no freaking joke, give me a break, how in the hell does the DWR have any idea how many deer are in this state, until they get there ##### together and figure things out it's highly likely things are going to get a lot worse, Hell, back in the fall they started bragging about how many deer were here in the state, dumbass? have no idea!!

 

[Murr]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-19 AT 04:48PM (MST)[p]>>Elk, I believe that some of
>>the great genetics are still
>>in the does and the
>>young bucks. There have been
>>units that have been shot
>>out, they give it a
>>break and it comes back,
>>right? I bet if SOME
>>of those bucks you went
>>out to look at the
>>other day had 3 or
>>4 more years on them
>>they would look pretty good.
>>Who is to say some
>>of the does don't have
>>the genes to produce big
>>bucks.
>
>Well shg!
>
>I'll be the 1st to say
>it takes Quality Does as
>Well as Quality Bucks!
>
>But GEEZUS!
>
>Has anybody seen the Decline in
>Body Size on All Deer
>in this State?
>
>Our Deer are NOT Tough Animals
>Anymore!
>
>I Say a Bigger Animal is
>Tougher than a JUNK/Small Animal!
>
>
>The Body Size on most Deer
>of today is a F'N
>JOKE!
>
>But you Still hear the BS
>Excuse:"I needed the Meat"
>
>Needed the Meat on a GAWD-DAMNED
>Jack Rabbit Sized Buck Huh?
>
>
>JUDAS!
>
>F'N!
>
>PRIEST!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I know so many people in
>so many places
>They make allot of money but
>they got sad faces
>
>It Ain't Easy being Me!

And you still have yet to offer one thing you would change with the DWR's piss poor management

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-19
>AT 04:48?PM (MST)
>
>>>Elk, I believe that some of
>>>the great genetics are still
>>>in the does and the
>>>young bucks. There have been
>>>units that have been shot
>>>out, they give it a
>>>break and it comes back,
>>>right? I bet if SOME
>>>of those bucks you went
>>>out to look at the
>>>other day had 3 or
>>>4 more years on them
>>>they would look pretty good.
>>>Who is to say some
>>>of the does don't have
>>>the genes to produce big
>>>bucks.
>>
>>Well shg!
>>
>>I'll be the 1st to say
>>it takes Quality Does as
>>Well as Quality Bucks!
>>
>>But GEEZUS!
>>
>>Has anybody seen the Decline in
>>Body Size on All Deer
>>in this State?
>>
>>Our Deer are NOT Tough Animals
>>Anymore!
>>
>>I Say a Bigger Animal is
>>Tougher than a JUNK/Small Animal!
>>
>>
>>The Body Size on most Deer
>>of today is a F'N
>>JOKE!
>>
>>But you Still hear the BS
>>Excuse:"I needed the Meat"
>>
>>Needed the Meat on a GAWD-DAMNED
>>Jack Rabbit Sized Buck Huh?
>>
>>
>>JUDAS!
>>
>>F'N!
>>
>>PRIEST!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I know so many people in
>>so many places
>>They make allot of money but
>>they got sad faces
>>
>>It Ain't Easy being Me!
>
>And you still have yet to
>offer one thing you would
>change with the DWR's piss
>poor management


One Thing?

GEEZUS!

Let's Start with about 50 Changes!

It'll Never Happen!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[travishunter3006]

To all the giant cry babies put there... you can start by purchasing as many tags as you can every year and staying home. That way it's as if the DWR cut a tag out of the pool. If enough of you do it then I'll have all the deer to myself.

You guys all want someone else to take care of the problem and take zero personal responsibility in the matter. When was the last time you guys went out and actually put a shovel to the ground or chainsaw to a cedar to actually make a difference?

 

[elkassassin]

>To all the giant cry babies
>put there... you can start
>by purchasing as many tags
>as you can every year
>and staying home. That way
>it's as if the DWR
>cut a tag out of
>the pool. If enough of
>you do it then I'll
>have all the deer to
>myself.
>
>You guys all want someone else
>to take care of the
>problem and take zero personal
>responsibility in the matter. When
>was the last time you
>guys went out and actually
>put a shovel to the
>ground or chainsaw to a
>cedar to actually make a
>difference?

Hey Travis!

The Guys doing that,Us/We are the Ones getting Hammered with the 'Dedicated Poacher Program' as they're calling it!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[JT]

>To all the giant cry babies
>put there... you can start
>by purchasing as many tags
>as you can every year
>and staying home. That way
>it's as if the DWR
>cut a tag out of
>the pool. If enough of
>you do it then I'll
>have all the deer to
>myself.
>
>You guys all want someone else
>to take care of the
>problem and take zero personal
>responsibility in the matter. When
>was the last time you
>guys went out and actually
>put a shovel to the
>ground or chainsaw to a
>cedar to actually make a
>difference?

?, your a real gem!! You don't know what the hell guys are doing. Coming from a guy who's comment is....
?If it walks, I kill it? I guess that's your fix?

 

[hornkiller]

My 2nd suggestion make a general deer tag $200!

 

[elkassassin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-19 AT 07:13PM (MST)[p]>My 2nd suggestion make a general
>deer tag $200!
>
>
>
>

Hey Hornkiller!

Probably take more than 200.00!

Some of these 'I Need The Meat' Hunters will Spend Thousands on a PISSCUTTER Buck just to say 'I Filled My Tag'!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkfromabove]

>>My 2nd suggestion make a general
>>deer tag $200!
>>
>>
>>
>>

>
>
> Hey Hornkiller!
>
>Probably tale more than 200.00!
>
>
>Some of these 'I Need The
>Meat' Hunters will Spend Thousands
>on a PISSCUTTER Buck just
>to say 'I Filled My
>Tag'!
>
>

And probably more than $400 for a Limited Entry tag,
and probably more than $840 for a Premium Limited Entry tag!

Some of these "I Need The Antlers" Hunters will Spend Tens of Thousands on a TROPHY Buck just to say "I Put Another One On My Man-Cave Wall"!

 

[Easy_green]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-19 AT 12:34PM (MST)[p]It is extremely obvious that deer numbers are down. The DWR and hunters are all very divided on "what changes" need to be made to increase the deer populations. I am willing to wait 3-4 years for a deer tag "IF" the trophy potential is there for a mature buck. However, there are many hunters that strongly disagree with long waiting periods because they want the opportunity to hunt every season. I still think it is possible to have more frequent opportunities to hunt, if a 4pt or better restriction is put in place for some or all units. This will help the younger bucks mature. If hunters continue to harvest younger bucks, how can we expect more mature deer? Here is what I propose:

1. 4pt or better harvest restriction (This includes limited entry units with the exception of a few management deer hunts. Why harvest a 2pt on a limited entry unit just to "fill" your tag. I have seen hunters do this)

2. No more hunting does

3. Significantly decrease deer permits in units that are not meeting the buck to doe objective

4. Maintain/sustain buck to doe ratios for each unit. For example, this means if there is a harsh winter and deer survival is down, again, reduce the tags.

Bottom line, we need young deer to mature in order to see deer populations increase. That is my personal opinion. If the hunting community recognizes the deer numbers are down, they will need to understand that harvesting young bucks all over the state will not help increase the herd numbers. Nor will harvesting does.

On a side note, my wife had the opportunity to hunt a cow elk on a CWMU this fall. This CWMU is near the public area I hunt deer on. The public land has some mature bucks, but not in as great of number as 10 years ago. I used to see several 4pts on this general unit each season, but now it is much harder to find a mature 4pt. The same is true with the younger deer, I have witnessed when I am out hunting the younger buck numbers are declining. Now, the CWMU on the other hand has many young bucks all over the property. If these young deer were on public land I have no doubt most of them would be harvested during the general hunts. We saw several shooter bucks during this cow hunt. I asked the CWMU operator how many mule deer tags they are issued and it is not many. I believe there are 2 public mule deer hunters and then 18 private tags (something around those numbers). The point is this CWMU understands you cannot harvest all the small deer if you want to harvest a mature deer. The amount of tags issued comes in to play as well.

I really want to witness our deer herds increase on public lands, but we as hunters will need to make some sacrifices in order to increase those numbers. I do not have all the answers, but I firmly believe you need to let the young bucks mature and stop harvesting does. Decreasing tags is the difficult part to accept for many opportunity hunters, but that is the reality at this time.

 

[Cooper]

Probably the same theory of a high fenced hunt

 

[Cooper]

I think I'm going to try a little bit of trapping this fall and hopefully catch a coyote or two

 

[elkassassin]

>>>My 2nd suggestion make a general
>>>deer tag $200!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> Hey Hornkiller!
>>
>>Probably tale more than 200.00!
>>
>>
>>Some of these 'I Need The
>>Meat' Hunters will Spend Thousands
>>on a PISSCUTTER Buck just
>>to say 'I Filled My
>>Tag'!
>>
>>
>
>And probably more than $400 for
>a Limited Entry tag,
>and probably more than $840 for
>a Premium Limited Entry tag!
>
>
>Some of these "I Need The
>Antlers" Hunters will Spend Tens
>of Thousands on a TROPHY
>Buck just to say "I
>Put Another One On My
>Man-Cave Wall"!

I Sure Hope that Ain't Directed at Me EFA!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[elkfromabove]

>>>>My 2nd suggestion make a general
>>>>deer tag $200!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

>>>
>>>
>>> Hey Hornkiller!
>>>
>>>Probably tale more than 200.00!
>>>
>>>
>>>Some of these 'I Need The
>>>Meat' Hunters will Spend Thousands
>>>on a PISSCUTTER Buck just
>>>to say 'I Filled My
>>>Tag'!
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And probably more than $400 for
>>a Limited Entry tag,
>>and probably more than $840 for
>>a Premium Limited Entry tag!
>>
>>
>>Some of these "I Need The
>>Antlers" Hunters will Spend Tens
>>of Thousands on a TROPHY
>>Buck just to say "I
>>Put Another One On My
>>Man-Cave Wall"!
>
>I Sure Hope that Ain't Directed
>at Me EFA!
>
>
>

No more than your PISSCUTTER/MEAT post was directed me, Bess! But if the shoe fits...?.!

 

[elkassassin]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-19
>AT 12:34?PM (MST)
>
>It is extremely obvious that deer
>numbers are down. The
>DWR and hunters are all
>very divided on "what changes"
>need to be made to
>increase the deer populations.
>I am willing to wait
>3-4 years for a deer
>tag "IF" the trophy potential
>is there for a mature
>buck. However, there are
>many hunters that strongly disagree
>with long waiting periods because
>they want the opportunity to
>hunt every season. I
>still think it is possible
>to have more frequent opportunities
>to hunt, if a 4pt
>or better restriction is put
>in place for some or
>all units. This will
>help the younger bucks mature.
> If hunters continue to
>harvest younger bucks, how can
>we expect more mature deer?
> Here is what I
>propose:
>
>1. 4pt or better harvest restriction
>(This includes limited entry units
>with the exception of a
>few management deer hunts.
>Why harvest a 2pt on
>a limited entry unit just
>to "fill" your tag.
>I have seen hunters do
>this)
>
>2. No more hunting does
>
>3. Significantly decrease deer permits in
>units that are not meeting
>the buck to doe objective
>
>
>4. Maintain/sustain buck to doe
>ratios for each unit.
>For example, this means if
>there is a harsh winter
>and deer survival is down,
>again, reduce the tags.
>
>Bottom line, we need young deer
>to mature in order to
>see deer populations increase.
>That is my personal opinion.
> If the hunting community
>recognizes the deer numbers are
>down, they will need to
>understand that harvesting young bucks
>all over the state will
>not help increase the herd
>numbers. Nor will harvesting
>does.
>
>On a side note, my wife
>had the opportunity to hunt
>a cow elk on a
>CWMU this fall. This
>CWMU is near the public
>area I hunt deer on.
> The public land has
>some mature bucks, but not
>in as great of number
>as 10 years ago.
>I used to see several
>4pts on this general unit
>each season, but now it
>is much harder to find
>a mature 4pt. The
>same is true with the
>younger deer, I have witnessed
>when I am out hunting
>the younger buck numbers are
>declining. Now, the CWMU
>on the other hand has
>many young bucks all over
>the property. If these
>young deer were on public
>land I have no doubt
>most of them would be
>harvested during the general hunts.
> We saw several shooter
>bucks during this cow hunt.
> I asked the CWMU
>operator how many mule deer
>tags they are issued and
>it is not many.
>I believe there are 2
>public mule deer hunters and
>then 18 private tags (something
>around those numbers). The
>point is this CWMU understands
>you cannot harvest all the
>small deer if you want
>to harvest a mature deer.
> The amount of tags
>issued comes in to play
>as well.
>
>I really want to witness our
>deer herds increase on public
>lands, but we as
>hunters will need to make
>some sacrifices in order to
>increase those numbers. I
>do not have all the
>answers, but I firmly believe
>you need to let the
>young bucks mature and stop
>harvesting does. Decreasing tags
>is the difficult part to
>accept for many opportunity hunters,
>but that is the reality
>at this time.

PISS On the Failed Buck to Doe Management!

Total Herd Numbers are way more important!

With your 4 Point or Better Rule You Won't have to worry about Buck to Doe Ratio's!











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

This is the way I see it The buck to doe ratio isn't working

next year would be a great year to start this we know they will be cutting tags I hope

so up the numbers 20 to 25 bucks per 100 doe's or hell even 25 to 30 per 100

we will have not only more opportunity but also have better quality in 3 to 4 years

 

[southernutahhunter]

I like the idea Elk, but they have overkilled for so many years, I think it will be hard to find a 100 doe anymore.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

your right they have over hunted areas and the drought didn't help and the long winter we had last year hurt are deer herds as well but it's time to rebuild

I know some people will say that those are LE numbers but who cares it will bring more opportunity for are fellow hunters and also bring more quality bucks back

 

[southernutahhunter]

Totally agree with you. But we cannot accept articles produced by dwr that claim there is more deer than ever. It is time for them to step up and admit the deer count is not accurate. The deer population is drastically down and we need to take different measures in order to rebuild the herd. You and others have mentioned measures that need to happen now in order to help rebuild our deer population.

 

[Deerlove]

Weve had 2 bad winters in 3 years, but the DWR says there's a record number of deer? Crazy!

 

[Elkslayer2015]

southernutahhunter I totally agree

 

[DownWind]

I like a 4 point or better hunt for a couple years across all general units (3 point or better for youth or first year hunters). Open it up like the spike hunt where general is general... sell 200,000 tags (everyone that wants a tag can have one) this way they still get their money and actually probably more. Fewer bucks/deer get shot and within a few years we get a healthier herd and the DWR gets their dollar. It will stink to not harvest a buck for a few years but who cares if it means the future herds get stronger IMO.

 

[30inchbucks]

Let's just cut the tags. Again, cut the tags. Let's just make the whole state just like the Paunsaugunt and Henry?s. Boy they have been such a great success! Then we can get a tag every 20 years and compete with all the guides and outfitters. Yippee! Sign me up. I love sitting at home watching those hunting videos. I'd rather do that than actually hunt. Give me a break! What a joke! Tag cuts is not the answer! We will never get them back once they're gone!