Class B Misdemeanor in UT-HELP

Maxxy

Maxxy

Active Member
Messages
211
Alright, so this past week I spent a week hunting Elk in a general unit in UT. I typically hike from camp while doing so and return the same way. My brothers and father have 4-Wheelers and go to and from the spot they start their hunts as I am assuming a lot of people do. We do NOT road hunt. On Sunday last week I was walking close to camp on a dirt road with my gun slung on my back. I was stopped by UDWR officer and asked to present my permit. I did so and he studied the 5 lines of information for a good minute and made some remark about my age and then said good luck.

The following day I hunted from camp and my brother had started his day by driving his 4 wheeler 2 miles and then hunted back to camp. He had sent me a text asking me to bring his 4-wheelr back to camp for him. I hunted back to the spot of his ATV and headed back to camp, with my gun slung on my shoulder. I was about 1/4 mile from camp on the dirt road when the same UDWR officer stopped, got out of his truck and walked over to me. He grabbed the barrel of my gun and said he needed to make sure it wasn't loaded and proceeded to take it off my back.

I immediately told him it there was a bullet in the chamber. He then fumbled around to try and open the bolt to remove the ammo and then sat it on the front of the ATV and talked to me for a good 5 minutes about how it was going, where i should hunt, if I had seen any Wild Turkeys, etc, and then walked to his truck wrote me a citation for have "a loaded firearm in a vehicle".
I just kept my mouth shut and took the ticket and headed back to camp.

Today i called to see what the damages were going to be. It is a mandatory appearance in front of a judge, (I recently moved out of state less then 2 months ago) a Minimum $623 fine/bail and up to 6 months in jail.

I just moved out of state for work and this will be terms for termination with my company.

Can I fight this and have a shot to get it removed? Has anyone else had this happen to them. Any advice (other than the obvious)? This is a life changing mistake in a lot of ways for me. I can't just plead guilty, although it seems I am.

Help anyone? My record is clean, I have never had a single run in with law enforcement of any kind. Just a freak incident in my eyes.
 
I think you're SOL. But call and talk to the DA and explain your case you might get lucky.
I got a speeding ticket in UT and called and talked to the county DA and it was simple deal without causing my insurance to rise, I did pay the required fine. So it worth a phone call.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
First thing first....


He needs to have probable cause to stop you in the first place.


Secondly,


If you have a Concealed Weapon Permit then you can carry a loaded rifle.


Your public defender will most likely be a retard so do your own homework.





Wanna smell my finger?
 
If a ticket for carrying a loaded gun while hunting is life changing, I would take a serious look at my life.
 
>If a ticket for carrying a
>loaded gun while hunting is
>life changing, I would take
>a serious look at my
>life.

Wapiti, would losing your job after you and your wife both left your previous ones for a better one, moved 600 miles, and this would terminate that job... yeah, I'm sure that wouldnt be life changing for you would it?
 
>ALWAYS take the bullet out of
>the chamber when you get
>to your ride.

DeerLove, thanks for your thoughtful response, lol... I think I caught that point now... It was my mistake, I know that, but the penalty in this situation seems a bit overboard to me. Had I been in town with a loaded gun, driving around in an actual automobile looking for trouble then I think the penalties would apply. Again, maybe i'm justifying, but the reality of the situation is that it was an honest mistake. I know life isn't fair, but this is one of those times I think the technicality of the law doesn't apply... Now if he had checked me the day before on a ATV and it was loaded, and then again the following day, then of course, but it was a one time mistake
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-14-13 AT 02:22PM (MST)[p]Best of luck to you. Just going by your account...it appears as if you are guilty. If I were in your shoes, I would call the prosecutor and explain the situation. Will a simple violation make you loose your job? Is the fine so high you will be financially ruined? Talk with the prosecutor and I would be willing to bet you can come to an amicable solution. I guess I should ask what you consider the ideal outcome? Just pointing out the other side of the situation...the game warden found you either by the road or on the road two times. Just a guess, but it probably looks like you were road hunting to him. When did you get the tag? Was it before or after you moved? Only you know the answer to that and only you can decide just how far you want to push this? In the end you admitted you were driving down the road with a loaded rifle on your back (the violation you were cited for).
 
That's a tough lesson and I have to agree with you that the punishment in this case is more severe than the crime. I would definitely talk to the DA and see what they can to to help you out. Like someone else said you may have to pay the fine but I am guessing they would be pretty lenient on a first offense. Hope it works out for you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 08:48AM (MST)[p]UtahElk,
We all make simple mistakes. I did that and I admit it. BUT is that mistake worthy of me to lose a job over and basically change A LOT of things in my life quickly. To my company, looking at my record and it says "carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle" is a no brainer for them to terminate me. My job consists of me driving to different businesses all day long in a company car. Now if my record said, carrying a firearm on an ATV while hunting in the middle of Fishlake national forest I think that would be a different story. There is the problem, companies don't usually care the specifics. We all have excuses. Mine just happens to not do with an actual enclosed vehicle, nor in a city, nor on a paved road. I think all those things make my situation different from tha actuality of "carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle" citation. Again, maybe just justification, but it is truly how I feel.

AND is it true they need reasonable cause to stop me. Because they had NONE.
 
>That's a tough lesson and I
>have to agree with you
>that the punishment in this
>case is more severe than
>the crime. I would definitely
>talk to the DA and
>see what they can to
>to help you out. Like
>someone else said you may
>have to pay the fine
>but I am guessing they
>would be pretty lenient on
>a first offense. Hope it
>works out for you.

Thanks for the words. Yeah, the punishment seems harsh to me. Even the $623. I have read these stories where poachers don't even get that stiff of a fine...
 
A conviction for carrying a loaded weapon on your wheeler will cost you your job? Really? What job do you have? (or had:))

I had a game citation once. I appeared and pled guilty and explained my situation to the judge. He reduced the fine but I still paid $550.

I hope Roy reads this. He's a master at weaseling his way out of legal trouble.

Eel
 
You should call the DA as has been suggested by others, as well as reaching out to the local judge for that county. My suggestion is that you ask them if you can file a "Plea in Abeyance" that is equal too, but not quite as severe as a full on guilty plea.

Often with the terms of a "Plea in Abeyance" you agree that the charges will not show on your "criminal record" and background. But you also agree that if law enforcement catches you doing the same thing within a time period, 1 to 2 years, then you will accept the full brunt of the charges and fines of both times you broke the law. The cost of this plea will be to pay the fine as well as a fee determined by the judge which the court will use to monitor your record to be sure you don't go be dumb somewhere else.

Best of luck!!
 
Game wardens can lawfully stop you and check your license, check your weapons, etc. They can't search without probable cause but they didnt need to search to see the A simple understanding. of the 4th ameendment is "right to be then the right to see". If a cop is in a place lawfully and sees a villation then it will stand up in court. Now if the game warden had to search your vehicle to find the loaded rifle you would have a much better chance a fighting it. Like I said earlier, explain the situation to the DA and I bet he/she will work with you.
 
>A conviction for carrying a loaded
>weapon on your wheeler will
>cost you your job? Really?
>What job do you have?
>(or had:))
>
>I had a game citation once.
>I appeared and pled guilty
>and explained my situation to
>the judge. He reduced the
>fine but I still paid
>$550.
>
>I hope Roy reads this. He's
>a master at weaseling his
>way out of legal trouble.
>
>
>Eel

A conviction for "carrying a loaded firearm IN A VEHICLE" will definitely terminate my job... corporate America doesn't care where you were, or if you were on a ATV, all they see is loaded firearm in a vehicle... Yeah, It sucks...
 
>You should call the DA as
>has been suggested by others,
>as well as reaching out
>to the local judge for
>that county. My suggestion
>is that you ask them
>if you can file a
>"Plea in Abeyance" that
>is equal too, but not
>quite as severe as a
>full on guilty plea.
>
>Often with the terms of a
>"Plea in Abeyance" you agree
>that the charges will not
>show on your "criminal record"
>and background. But you
>also agree that if law
>enforcement catches you doing the
>same thing within a time
>period, 1 to 2 years,
>then you will accept the
>full brunt of the charges
>and fines of both times
>you broke the law.
>The cost of this plea
>will be to pay the
>fine as well as a
>fee determined by the judge
>which the court will use
>to monitor your record to
>be sure you don't go
>be dumb somewhere else.
>
>Best of luck!!

Thank you for the advice, so far this seems to be the most helpful... This sounds like something I would shoot for...(pun intended)... Yeah, no more being dumb, in fact, more lazy than dumb...
 
77-7-15. Authority of peace officer to stop and question suspect ? Grounds.

A peace officer may stop any person in a public place when he has a reasonable suspicion to believe he has committed or is in the act of committing or is attempting to commit a public offense and may demand his name, address and an explanation of his actions.

The next section in the Law gives a LEO the authority to Frisk you if, and only if, you both (1) Fall into the law above (77-7-15) and (2) there is reasonable belief that the LEO or anyone else is in danger. Open carry, or knowledge of the gun, does not create a risk in and of itself. But, if you are a big jerk to the cop for a stop, you will have no legal argument against a frisk.

If you are not a jerk, and the officer is asking or demanding to frisk you. The best reply is ?I will comply if required by law, but I do not consent to any unlawful searches.?

Not sure if a F & G has the same rules.
 
>Game wardens can lawfully stop you
>and check your license, check
>your weapons, etc. They
>can't search without probable cause
>but they didnt need to
>search to see the
>A simple understanding. of the
>4th ameendment is "right to
>be then the right to
>see". If a cop
>is in a place lawfully
>and sees a villation then
>it will stand up in
>court. Now if the
>game warden had to search
>your vehicle to find the
>loaded rifle you would have
>a much better chance a
>fighting it. Like I
>said earlier, explain the situation
>to the DA and I
>bet he/she will work with
>you.

But walking up to my "vehicle" and placing his hand around the barrel of my gun without asking to do so... Is that OK??? Im not saying it isnt, i am just wondering. There is NO way he could have known the gun was loaded, therefore how would he know I was in violation of the law?
 
>77-7-15. Authority of peace officer to
>stop and question suspect ?
>Grounds.
>
>A peace officer may stop any
>person in a public place
>when he has a reasonable
>suspicion to believe he has
>committed or is in the
>act of committing or is
>attempting to commit a public
>offense and may demand his
>name, address and an explanation
>of his actions.
>
>The next section in the Law
>gives a LEO the authority
>to Frisk you if, and
>only if, you both (1)
>Fall into the law above
>(77-7-15) and (2) there is
>reasonable belief that the LEO
>or anyone else is in
>danger. Open carry, or
>knowledge of the gun, does
>not create a risk in
>and of itself. But,
>if you are a big
>jerk to the cop for
>a stop, you will have
>no legal argument against a
>frisk.
>
>If you are not a jerk,
>and the officer is asking
>or demanding to frisk you.
> The best reply is
>?I will comply if required
>by law, but I do
>not consent to any unlawful
>searches.?
>
>Not sure if a F &
>G has the same rules.
>

UCNELK... Not you again... lol

Too late for that line now...
 
"Wapiti, would losing your job after you and your wife both left your previous ones for a better one, moved 600 miles, and this would terminate that job... yeah, I'm sure that wouldnt be life changing for you would it?"

It wouldn't cost me my job and I'd never have a job with a company where there was a chance of that happening.
 
>"Wapiti, would losing your job after
>you and your wife both
>left your previous ones for
>a better one, moved 600
>miles, and this would terminate
>that job... yeah, I'm sure
>that wouldnt be life changing
>for you would it?"
>
>It wouldn't cost me my job
>and I'd never have a
>job with a company where
>there was a chance of
>that happening.

Some of us aren't so lucky to have the opportunity to be that picky... Props to you. But just because you have that luxury, doesnt mean we all do.
 
Maxxy, I'm almost 100% sure you won't serve any time in jail. If this occurred in another State, how would your employer even know about it? Don't ask, don't tell.

Eel
 
>Maxxy, I'm almost 100% sure you
>won't serve any time in
>jail. If this occurred in
>another State, how would your
>employer even know about it?
>Don't ask, don't tell.
>
>Eel

I am not too worried about the jail time, but my company runs thorough background checks and this is one this that WILL end up on that permanent background check (unless I can do as they posted above and do a "plea of abeyance")...

I am required to report ANYTHING other than minor traffic citations... If I do this I have a small chance at retaining my job, if I don't and they find out, it is automatic termination... Its lame, but it was clear before I was hired... It was a mistake by me, yes, but thats what it was, a mistake.
 
Friend made a similar mistake in Utah 4 years ago. It was a $150 dollar fine, pretty much just go pay the ticket type deal.

Call the DA, ask him what your options are. Ask for a plea in obeyance (sp?). Doesn't hit your record if you don't get in trouble again for a certain amount of time. Usually a year.

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
>>Maxxy, I'm almost 100% sure you
>>won't serve any time in
>>jail. If this occurred in
>>another State, how would your
>>employer even know about it?
>>Don't ask, don't tell.
>>
>>Eel
>
>I am not too worried about
>the jail time, but my
>company runs thorough background checks
>and this is one this
>that WILL end up on
>that permanent background check (unless
>I can do as they
>posted above and do a
>"plea of abeyance")...
>
>I am required to report ANYTHING
>other than minor traffic citations...
>If I do this I
>have a small chance at
>retaining my job, if I
>don't and they find out,
>it is automatic termination... Its
>lame, but it was clear
>before I was hired... It
>was a mistake by me,
>yes, but thats what it
>was, a mistake.

OK, I understand. I hope it works out for you because I believe it was a simple oversite.

Eel
 
I am not sure why people carry a Bullet in the gun in the first place. It doesn't take that long to load and shoot when an animal is found in the field. The couple extra seconds aren't worth the possibility of someone getting shot when the safety accidently gets knocked off.

This is why I got my concealed weapon permit. That way you can have a loaded gun in the vehicle.
 
I am not 100% positive if this is the way some people are thinking, but just in case some people are misunderstanding when a loaded weapon can be carried in a vehicle with a concealed carry permit.

Straight from the Utah Big Game Hunting Regulation book.

"The firearm restrictions in this section do
not apply to concealed firearm permit holders,
provided the person is not utilizing the concealed
firearm to hunt or take wildlife."
 
>I am not sure why people
>carry a Bullet in the
>gun in the first place.
> It doesn't take that
>long to load and shoot
>when an animal is found
>in the field. The
>couple extra seconds aren't worth
>the possibility of someone getting
>shot when the safety accidently
>gets knocked off.
>
>This is why I got my
>concealed weapon permit. That
>way you can have a
>loaded gun in the vehicle.
>


Kind of a contradiction wouldn't you say?




4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
I don't know what the equivalent in Utah is, but for a first time offender, a deferred sentence may be an option. You would be placed on a probationary period with conditions. Charges are suspended, and after serving the probationary period, charges are dropped. If you mess up during the probationary period, the conviction goes on record with commensurate consequences.
 
"This is why I got my concealed weapon permit. That way you can have a loaded gun in the vehicle."

Pretty sure a concealed weapon permit would not have saved him a ticket. He could have his permit taken away for doing what he said he did.
 
>"This is why I got my
>concealed weapon permit. That way
>you can have a loaded
>gun in the vehicle."
>
>Pretty sure a concealed weapon permit
>would not have saved him
>a ticket. He could have
>his permit taken away for
>doing what he said he
>did.

Actually, it would have saved me a ticket. The only part of this story that i did not share was when my Father, who was about 1/2 mile down the road came up to me stopped with them UDWR, they promptly checked his weapon, and found it loaded as well. They asked if he had his CFP and he showed it to them. They said that was all that was needed and let him go on.
 
>I am not sure why people
>carry a Bullet in the
>gun in the first place.
> It doesn't take that
>long to load and shoot
>when an animal is found
>in the field. The
>couple extra seconds aren't worth
>the possibility of someone getting
>shot when the safety accidently
>gets knocked off.
>
>This is why I got my
>concealed weapon permit. That
>way you can have a
>loaded gun in the vehicle.
>

As I mentioned before, it was just a mistake, or better put, an oversight. I rarely ride on ATV's while hunting, but when I do I would have normally taken it out of the chamber. I just plain forgot. No mal intent, no i wasnt planning on shooting off my 4-wheeler at 12:30 in the afternoon. I was just plain headed back to camp and forgot to take the bullet out of the chamber. An honest mistake.
 
>I don't know what the equivalent
>in Utah is, but for
>a first time offender, a
>deferred sentence may be an
>option. You would be placed
>on a probationary period with
>conditions. Charges are suspended, and
>after serving the probationary period,
>charges are dropped. If you
>mess up during the probationary
>period, the conviction goes on
>record with commensurate consequences.

Is there a specific way to go about this, or is this what the "plea of abeyance" is? Again, i have no experience with anything legal (or illegal) and this is all new to me. I just want to go about it the right way and get it taken care of ASAP. Thanks
 
Maxxy,

Call this week and ask to talk with the prosecutor. Tell him/her your situation and ask what can be done to keep this off your record? Be polite and what ever you do don't try to minimalize what happened. Simply say it was a mistake and a hard lesson learned. In my expieriance that will go a lot further than trying to justify a mistake. Ask if there is any way to get a plea in abeyance to try so that you can try to keep from getting fired.
 
Sorry to hear you got nailed for breaking the law. Am very happy to read this isn't a thread about " I forgot it was loaded,and didn't intend for it to go off and...." Yes we all make mistakes. You might want to think about why the law is there in the first place. A loaded gun on or in vehicle is very dangerous,that is why there is a law against it. Sorry if I am the only " Jerk" thats pointing that out to you. I was witness to a guy who stopped in our camp, got off his motorcycle and came over to ask about the hunting, He took his rifle off his back and leaned it against his bike. it fell over and went off while we were standing there. He was lucky that day and his shot went off into the woods. I guess we were all lucky. All he had to say was " I was sure I unloaded it". You said, " I immediately told him it there was a bullet in the chamber". If you knew it was loaded, and still drove the wheeler anyway, then am I to see your thread here as, your complaining about the penalty for knowingly breaking the law? I really hope you don't loose your job over this. I would talk to my boss and the DA if I were you. Good luck with your job. But as for the fine and record...well if your gonna Dance Pay the fiddler.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 08:51AM (MST)[p]Stonefly. I made a mistake that in 99.9% of the time is harmless, should something like that have such dire consequences? Its like speeding on the Freeway (or anywhere for that matter), yes, it is breaking the law, but 99.9% of the time it doesn't affect anybody, and I personally think what happened with me is less dangerous than speeding. Again, that's just my opinion.

As he grabbed my gun, and asked the question, i immediately realized I made the mistake. I wasn't driving around thinking "this is awesome, my gun is loaded, I'm such a rebel"... I was simply headed back to camp.
 
Great advice Utah400, do not try and minimize any part of it. The law looks at an ATV no different then a vehicle in this situation and trying to claim it is somehow less severe because it was on an ATV will not get you anywhere.

with that said you have three options, one call the court and try and get a plea deal of some sort, sometimes if you admit it was a mistake and explain your situation you may just have to pay the fine and they will agree to not put it on your record. second call an attorney and try and get off on a technicality, there are all sorts of strange rules that wildlife officers often miss. This is the most expensive route but can be the most effective. If your attorney can't find a technicality they are often times more successful in negotiating a favorable plea deal. If you go the attorney route do not call the court first. Third is to go to court and talk to the judge, depending on the judge you may get lucky or you may get a judge that hates guns and throws the book at you. In all of these your prior clean record will help you.

This sucks it happened to you I'm sure it was an over site as you said, best of luck hopefully it works out for you, sounds like it has already been a hard lesson learned.
 
I'm an attorney in Utah. I can help you. I don't want to discuss this on an open forum. PM for contact info. If this is the same officer I'm thinking of I've had clients who dealt with him in the past. Do not go to the prosecutor and admit guilt. You have several options we can discuss, but don't go admit guilt!
 
This same exact thing happened to my cousin a few years ago. He and I jumped in the truck after a hike and before we even went anywhere the game warden showed up and checked his gun first thing. Through him, I learned the state of Utah takes this offense very seriously. He ended up paying the max fine (no jail) and got a plea of abeyance. He tried to work with the DA, but that wasn't getting him anywhere, so he ended up getting a lawyer. He was in a similar situation as you with his job, and while it ended up costing him a few thousand dollars for the lawyer, he ended up not getting anything on his record to hurt his employment.
 
Gursamp, I was going to say the same things you said. Don't admit a thing until you talk to an attorney in regards to this matter. I hope you can help him out, it sounds like a total unconstitutional search and seizure, a motion to suppress would probably be in line if that was the case. In no way is my comment meant to be legal advice other then talk to an attorney. I have to add that in lol.
 
>I'm an attorney in Utah. I
>can help you. I don't
>want to discuss this on
>an open forum. PM for
>contact info. If this is
>the same officer I'm thinking
>of I've had clients who
>dealt with him in the
>past. Do not go to
>the prosecutor and admit guilt.
>You have several options we
>can discuss, but don't go
>admit guilt!


PM Sent
 
>This same exact thing happened to
>my cousin a few years
>ago. He and I jumped
>in the truck after a
>hike and before we even
>went anywhere the game warden
>showed up and checked his
>gun first thing. Through him,
>I learned the state of
>Utah takes this offense very
>seriously. He ended up paying
>the max fine (no jail)
>and got a plea of
>abeyance. He tried to work
>with the DA, but that
>wasn't getting him anywhere, so
>he ended up getting a
>lawyer. He was in a
>similar situation as you with
>his job, and while it
>ended up costing him a
>few thousand dollars for the
>lawyer, he ended up not
>getting anything on his record
>to hurt his employment.

KK, What area were you in? Just curious. I feel like the area I would be going to court would have a judge with some outdoors experience, I know thats a shot in the dark, but who knows. One obstacle is that i live out of state now and the trip there is a long one. So I basically need to make it worth it. Your story sounds similar to mine. It was just not the first thing on my mind, as I mentioned, I rarely am on a ATV with a firearm, usually just hiking.
 
We were hunting in the Panguitch lake unit. The warden was out of the southern region. We all make mistakes; if it were me I would get a lawyer and let them take care of it. You may not even have to go back to Utah if things can be handled out of the courtroom. Whatever you do, do not give in and plead guilty. My two cents.
 
>We were hunting in the Panguitch
>lake unit. The warden was
>out of the southern region.
>We all make mistakes; if
>it were me I would
>get a lawyer and let
>them take care of it.
>You may not even have
>to go back to Utah
>if things can be handled
>out of the courtroom. Whatever
>you do, do not give
>in and plead guilty. My
>two cents.

Very Likely could be the same officer. But thanks for the input... I have a week or so to figure it out before the letter comes in the mail. Thanks again
 
Good luck. Hopefully it all works out.

For entertainment purposes, check out some of the Open Carry videos on YouTube. It is pretty interesting what is actually required for a weapon search by a LEO. Utah may be different, an attorney could tell you, but they are entertaining to watch nonetheless. Some of the cops get ticked when the carriers know their rights.

Grizzly
 
It's all about the money now !!! No one you have to deal with from here on out really gives a $^&# about the loaded rifle or you for that matter, it is all about how much money you are willing to pay them now !! Mark my words the money will get you out of anything like this and make everything go away. Without the money being spent you're guilty.......Case closed next defendant please. Sad but true. Good luck.
 
>>"This is why I got my
>>concealed weapon permit. That way
>>you can have a loaded
>>gun in the vehicle."
>>
>>Pretty sure a concealed weapon permit
>>would not have saved him
>>a ticket. He could have
>>his permit taken away for
>>doing what he said he
>>did.
>
>Actually, it would have saved me
>a ticket. The only part
>of this story that i
>did not share was when
>my Father, who was about
>1/2 mile down the road
>came up to me stopped
>with them UDWR, they promptly
>checked his weapon, and found
>it loaded as well. They
>asked if he had his
>CFP and he showed it
>to them. They said that
>was all that was needed
>and let him go on.
>
It's a good thing for your father that the fish cop doesn't know the regs. Page 30 of the Utah Big Game guidebook. Only handguns may be fully loaded in vehicle, unless it is being used for hunting, then it can't be fully loaded. No long guns can be fully loaded in a vehicle. Conceal permit does not allow me to keep a fully loaded shotgun,rifle or muzzy in vehicle. Some here need to read a little closer and not give out bad info.
 
You need to speak with a defense attorney. Period. The end.

And if it were me, I would stop talking about the situation on an internet forum.
 
>>I am not sure why people
>>carry a Bullet in the
>>gun in the first place.
>> It doesn't take that
>>long to load and shoot
>>when an animal is found
>>in the field. The
>>couple extra seconds aren't worth
>>the possibility of someone getting
>>shot when the safety accidently
>>gets knocked off.
>>
>>This is why I got my
>>concealed weapon permit. That
>>way you can have a
>>loaded gun in the vehicle.
>>
>
>As I mentioned before, it was
>just a mistake, or better
>put, an oversight. I rarely
>ride on ATV's while hunting,
>but when I do I
>would have normally taken it
>out of the chamber. I
>just plain forgot. No mal
>intent, no i wasnt planning
>on shooting off my 4-wheeler
>at 12:30 in the afternoon.
>I was just plain headed
>back to camp and forgot
>to take the bullet out
>of the chamber. An honest
>mistake.
I hear ya loud and clear. I've done it myself one time this year in my UTV during muzzy hunt. Forgot to pull the primer. Glad I wasn't checked. Good luck with the ticket.
 
Maxxy, you are getting the Ned Beatty treatment for sure. You are or will be squeelin like a pig and its not fair. The sweetheart deals that the Utah DWR themselves receive, when they are caught breaking the law (like the recent poaching case of Jim Karpowitz the Utah DWR Director) are simply not available to the general public. I think Jim had to pay a fine of about $300 for his poaching with out any other penaltys. Jim didnt lose his job, have to hire a lawyer or anything. You see the Game Wardens themselves get to decide how loud you squeel, how much you have to pay and many times they even get to keep the money. And to what end? Many times the Game Wardens using the criminal forfeiture process get to steal your truck, steal your gun, take your trophy, take your money. And thats just for starters. Using poaching rewards programs, they are allowed by law to bribe or tamper with witness' to achieve their goal. They routinely and illegally ask witness' to lie to help them make their case and they brow beat, lie too and pressure other witness. The Game Warden will literally put the words they want the witness against you to say into their mouth. They will suspend your hunting rights for the most innocent and harmless offense and this will trigger the loss of hunting rights nearly everywhere. By losing your hunting rights everywhere you will also lose all of your bonus points. It wont matter if you are poised to recieve a Henry Mountain deer tag or a Montana sheep tag or any other tag that you may have been pursuing for decades. This provision alone, may in real dollars, cost you a million dollars or more. Yes, people who have caused no harm to wildlife or any other resource or harmed anyone in any way can and do regularly have their lives destroyed by the Game Warden using silly laws.And the final topping on the Game Wardens big bull shyt cake will be to mislead the public about what you did. The news will read that you "poached" or "unlawfully destroyed" wildlife but the truth may be that you had the wrong color hat on.Maxxy you are lucky that your "offense" was not a felony then it would even be worse. Wildlife Law Enforcement in Utah is a shame.Good thing most sportsmen in Utah are smart enough to see where the real shame and the real blame belongs.
 
Like it's been said, in Utah this is a law that is NOT taken lightly, going from one of my buddies experiences, you are going to have to go appear in court and you are going to have to pay the fine, but since you are a first time offender chances are you will get a plea in abeyance. And like it has been said please be careful, we had a family friend that would always put a bullet in the chamber as soon as soon as he started his hikes and thought it was fine because his safety was "always" on. Then one day a small slip while hiking resulted in him being shot in the head in front of his 8 year old son. I agree the second it takes to flip a shell in is nothing compared to a life.
 
Sorry, you are guilty and want to get off. Can't say i blame you but i do not feel sorry for you even a little tiny little bit. I can think of no circumstance where you should have had a cartridge in your chamber under the described circumstances, none, period, guilty! Lucky you didn't hurt yourself or somebody else.

That said, Good luck in keeping your Job, the possibility of losing it seems extreme to me!

Joey




"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Looks like you Guys think it's OK to pack loaded Rifles on & in Vehicles!

Anybody with any Safety Conscious at all would never ride a f'n Wheeler with one in the Barrel rather it be legal or not!

But I'm sure there are more U-TARDS doing it than not!

Did they check your Brothers,Cousins,Nephews,Nieces,Sister-In-Laws,Mother-In-Laws Guns?














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
Just my opinion, but part of being an adult is learning how to accept responsibility for your actions. Yeah you screwed up, now man up and take your lumps.

Sorry, I'm trying to feel pity for you (I guess that's what you want), but I just can't get there....
 
Apparently you knew before hand your company would fire you for misdemeanor charges as I'm sure they don't know about the incident yet and that is why you're asking for a way to get out of this predicament, but you chose to break the law anyway. I'm with Kevin....I have a hard time feeling sorry for you pal.
Good luck....lawyers can get people out of all kinds of things...just takes money. Problem is the dwr also reads MM and I would think they could use this whole thread as an admission to guilt, BUT I'm no lawyer so who am I to say. Good luck
 
I have to laugh at all the advice to the OP stating "do not admit guilt". He has clearly done that publicly in several of his posts including post #10. MM is not a private venue and any UT G&F LEO worth his salt has already got those posts in his evidence folder.... Terry
 
>Sorry, you are guilty and want
>to get off. Can't say
>i blame you but i
>do not feel sorry for
>you even a little tiny
>little bit. I can think
>of no circumstance where you
>should have had a cartridge
>in your chamber under the
>described circumstances, none, period, guilty!
>Lucky you didn't hurt yourself
>or somebody else.
>
>That said, Good luck in keeping
>your Job, the possibility of
>losing it seems extreme to
>me!
>
>Joey
>
>
>
>
>"It's all about knowing what your
>firearms practical limitations are and
>combining that with your own
>personal limitations!"

Sage, I never asked you to feel sorry for me, not once. Nor will I. I'm trying to save my job, and any potential future job (Permanent record). I made a mistake. One-time mistake. an oversight. I'm glad you havent made one. I have ZERO problem paying the fine. Thanks for your concern...
 
>Apparently you knew before hand your
>company would fire you for
>misdemeanor charges as I'm sure
>they don't know about the
>incident yet and that
>is why you're asking for
>a way to get out
>of this predicament, but you
>chose to break the law
>anyway. I'm with Kevin....I have
>a hard time feeling sorry
>for you pal.
>Good luck....lawyers can get people out
>of all kinds of things...just
>takes money. Problem is the
>dwr also reads MM and
>I would think they could
>use this whole thread as
>an admission to guilt, BUT
>I'm no lawyer so who
>am I to say. Good
>luck

LOL. I chose to break the law. Damn, you caught me. I seriously was waiting to leave a bullet in my chamber the first chance I got on a ATV, I literally waited 11 months for the hunt, so I could ram that shell in the chamber and I was even hoping to leave it on "fire" , but I forgot. You guys crack me up. Wow
 
It appears you have already rejected legal advice, go figure.

If you stick with your attitude, the law is stupid and the punishment asinine, you will be toast.

If you really feel that way call the court you are remanded to appear and tell them the law is stupid and the punishment asinine, that will seal the deal for you.

Or you could delete what you have written and listen to an attorney.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 08:59AM (MST)[p]Maxxy,

Plenty of good advise. If you can get a plea that doesn't put the violation on your record after one year for good behavior do it. You have a clean history, and if you are up front with your boss, any boss that is worth working for won't fire you. Yes it was a mistake,we all make them, don't rationalize, talk with an lawyer. The DA and fish and game officer might be friends. You should be fine in the long run. I hunt with young hunters. They have a bullet out of their chamber going through brush, down steep mountains, etc. If they are sitting on a ridge, they can have one in the chamber. I have seen several patients over the years who accidently shot themselves or someone else. It happens. You can't be too careful. Good luck.
 
>Maxxy,
>
>Plenty of good advise. If
>you can get a plea
>that doesn't put the violation
>on your record after one
>year for good behavior.
> You have a clean
>history, and if you are
>up front with your boss,
>any boss that is worth
>working for won'r fire you.
> Yes it was a
>mistake,we all make them, don't
>rationalize, talk with an lawyer.
> You should be fine
>in the long run.
>I hunt with young hunters.
> They have a bullet
>out of their chamber going
>through brush, down steep mountains,
>etc. If they are
>sitting on a ridge, they
>can have one in the
>chamber. I have seen
>several patients over the years
>who accidently shot themselves or
>someone else. It happens. You
>can't be too careful. Good
>luck.


Thank you for your thoughts. Much appreciated
 
Well you clearly stated to the F&G officer when you said he grabbed the barrel that there was a bullet in the chamber.....correct? or did I mis-read something?
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 10:08?AM (MST)

"I immediately told him it there was a bullet in the chamber"
This was the line I was referring to

Sorry posted this before your last post
 
>Well you clearly stated to the
>F&G officer when you said
>he grabbed the barrel that
>there was a bullet in
>the chamber.....correct? or did I
>mis-read something?


No, you read it right. But like I said, it was an oversight. I didn't "want" to have a bullet in the chamber for any reason. I had hiked roughly 8 miles that morning alone, I just simply forgot to remove it. It was not intentional in any way. When you grabbed the barrel and started to pull it off my back and as he said he needed to check it, I realized what i had done. All I am saying it this isn't a routine thing. It was a one time mistake. Unintentional, oversight, whatever you want to call it.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13
>AT 10:08?AM (MST)
>
>"I immediately told him it there
>was a bullet in the
>chamber"
>This was the line I was
>referring to?


Cat, have you ever been driving down the road, EVER in your life and realized you forgot your license (or wallet). Its the same circumstance. I was tired, camp was close and I rarely ride an ATV while hunting. It was a simple mistake, with VERY high consequences for myself
 
Yes I have broken the law numerous times....speeding tickets mostly, and for the most part I didn't realize I was speeding, but they helped me remember when they said: sign here and press hard there's 5 copies.....oh and have a nice day.
 
>Yes I have broken the law
>numerous times....speeding tickets mostly, and
>for the most part I
>didn't realize I was speeding,
>but they helped me remember
>when they said: sign here
>and press hard there's 5
>copies.....oh and have a nice
>day.


Look, Im not trying to break the law and get away with it for fun. Im an adult. I know mistakes have consequences. If I lose my job, then fine, if I have to pay $623 then fine. If I spend 6 months in jail, fine (My wife wont feel the same about that one). All I am saying is the lesson was learned. I guess its just unfortunate it has to be learned with such gravity. Again, I'm glad no one was hurt, thats the REALLy tough way to learn a lesson i am sure. So I guess I'll take what they give me. All I was doing was asking for some advice. I feel that was accomplished in a few of the peoples posts earlier on. So I will leave it at that and see what comes my way.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 10:47AM (MST)[p]by the way I agree with huntin50 who said.....

"You have a clean history, and if you are up front with your boss, any boss that is worth working for won't fire you."

I would run away from a boss like that as fast as I could anyway.

Heck, even D!ck Cheney didn't get fired.:)
Eel
 
What county was this in? Depending on the county you may not even go in front of a judge, but rather go straight to a meeting with the counties attorney. I had a situation once where I had been camping in the spring and of course had taken my pistol with me, I stopped went into the grocery store so I stuck it under my seat, when I got back to my car I didn't take it out and set it on the seat, a little bit later I got pulled over for not using my turn signal when I switched lanes, was asked if I had any weapons in the car, of course I said yes, was asked where it was at I told the officer, he then chose to arrest me for carrying a concealed dangerous weapon(note: It was NOT loaded). I started to fight it by myself by pleading not guilty to the judge, I then had to meet with the cities prosecutor where I was offered a plea in abeyance with the city destroying my gun. I was fine with the plea in abeyance, but not with my gun being destroyed, so I decided to pony up and pay an attorney.

So my advice would be either 1. get an attorney or 2. go and plea not guilty, and see what kind of deal they offer you.
 
like I said before maxxy dont be surprised if all comments so far are of the tip of the iceberg variety. because if the Warden feel like you were in the act of hunting or pursuing when he stopped you (and you probably were) you may actually receive a poaching charge in the mail.Few people understand (because it is almost inconceivable)that an animal does not need to be involved for a poach to have taken place. This happens because buried deep in the wildlife code, where few hunters venture, exist definitional frauds. These definitional frauds give Wardens Christ like(more like Satanic) powers: Wardens literally can and do turn pumpkins into tamatos as far as the Courts are concerned. In your case the fraud would be carried out by how the Utah DWR defines the word "take" In Utah the word "take" includes the word "pursue" and also "hunt". What, that may mean for you is: because you were hunting of pursuing unlawfully,(due to the loaded gun)you therefore unlawfully "took" or did "take" wildlife. You may have poached an elk without even knowing it. My guess is that the Warden decided to hit you will a class B misdemeanor out of kindness or so that he could feel good about himself; having been kind to you. Likely, he could have hit you with a felony because the only requirement for the felony is that you were "trophy" hunting. So had there been evidence of trophy hunting. Like a record of a statement by you, like "I am going to shoot a 6 point bull or nothing" The law could treat you as though you poached a trophy bull elk in Yellowstone.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 11:58AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 11:58?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Oct-16-13 AT 11:57?AM (MST)

I have lived in Utah most of my life and have spoken with several DWR officers in my days. I work with law enforcement all over the country building their networks and computer systems so I have learned a few things. I have seen drug users, dealers, repeating DUI offenders and more get off with lowered charges by doing what I am suggesting to you. How do you know that this charge will result in termination for you? Is it in your employee handbook? Most companies will run a check on you once every 1 or 2 years. So if they have already run your check then you are fine until they run you again which some companies only do it at random every couple years, so you might be safe for a long time. If you have a good relationship with your boss or HR, It might help to talk with your boss or HR in a casual manor to see what the specifics are and see if your case even falls in those lines for termination. Don?t tell them your case, just see if you can poke some information that would better help you assess if your case even will result in termination.

Here is my advise.

The ticket will say you cannot call any sooner than 7 days, and no later than 14 days. So somewhere in that time frame (closer to 7 than 14), I would call the number on the ticket and setup your time to meet with the hearing officer / judge, by doing this I think you will be starting the appeal process. Usually it will be schedules for 1 month or 2 out.

When you get there, dress professional, and don't say anything or do anything until it is your turn to speak. The hearing officer often looks around the room to see how you are acting and builds an ?opinion profile? of you based on your behavior, gestures, and court room respect long before you even stand up and this can be important to your outcome. Using sir or ma'am when addressing them is very important. It might be a court hearing, or a private hearing officer. Tell them your side of the story as it happened, and provide good detail as this shows you remember the events clearly. Don't make ANY excuses, or try to justify the cause of your actions. Tell them it was a simple mistake and you should have used better judgment, and this was eye opening for you. Point out in passing that it was not your 4 wheeler and that it was a fellow hunters vehicle. By pointing out it was not your 4 wheeler, it points out a higher probability for you to not know the 4 wheeler hunting laws. This is not an excuse as it is your responsibility to understand the hunting laws, but it is a helping point for them to agree it honestly could have been a mistake instead of disrespect for the law.

Make sure to let them know you ARE accepting fault and are not there trying to get the ticket thrown out or fight the system. Make sure you let them know you are there to work this out and pay your dues. Explain your job situation and the termination that might result from this. You could go as far as to offer to pay the fine in full that day in return for a lowered charge to prevent employment termination. Ask the DA or the hearing officer, is there is a hunting course you can take to reduce the charges (much like driving school). Even if there is not it will show them you are willing to do what it takes to work this out and to protect your job as that is your goal, and that you are not trying to beat the system!

By doing this, you will 95% chances get the penalty reduced to a lesser charge avoiding termination. The reason this should work for you is because they are not there to make sure they ruin your life. They are trying to make sure you get the point and don't commit this offense again, and like all business, they want their money, they don't care about the charge they put on your record. This is why they offer deals for guilty pleas, and this is why the DA meets with you before you talk to the judge, they are trying to get you to pay the fine with or without a "deal" so they can write it off which is their main goal, it is like the game show (let's make a deal). They also do not want to waste more time and more money to setup a trial for you and pay the judge and lawyer to fight you on this and potentially have you win and owe nothing. So if you waive the white flag and tell them you will surrender making it easy on them, they will more times than not return the favor by reducing the charges, fines, or both as a sign of gratitude for taking responsibility for your actions and being professional about it when meeting with them.

If it is a pre-trial, they will give you 3 options. Guilty, not guilt, and no contest. Before making your plea, your will meet with the prosecutor where he will go over your case with you, it is there he will offer you a deal to plead guilty or no contest hoping you will accept it. It is at that time you can work with him and throw a counter offer that better suits your needs. If he is unwilling to budge on anything (very rare) then plead not guilty and take it all the way as you have nothing to lose, and the jury can then throw it out, or lower the charges your found guilty of. Also by taking it all the way, your record will not have this charge on it until your proven guilty which you can set the hearing date out like 3 months or more. When that time comes, you can extend the hearing day further. The court knows this and this is why they try to make a deal with you to close it out and be done with it.

Best of luck to you. If you follow close to this advice, you will have a reduced charge offered to you.
 
>I have lived in Utah most
>of my life and have
>spoken with several DWR officers
>in my days. I work
>with law enforcement all over
>the country building their networks
>and computer systems so I
>have learned a few things.
> I have seen drug
>users, dealers, repeating DUI offenders
>and more get off with
>lowered charges by doing what
>I am suggesting to you.
>How do you know that
>this charge will result in
>termination for you? Is it
>in your employee handbook? Most
>companies will run a check
>on you once every 1
>or 2 years. So if
>they have already run your
>check then you are fine
>until they run you again
>which some companies only do
>it at random every couple
>years, so you might be
>safe for a long time.
>If you have a good
>relationship with your boss or
>HR, It might help to
>talk with your boss or
>HR in a casual manor
>to see what the specifics
>are and see if your
>case even falls in those
>lines for termination. Don?t tell
>them your case, just see
>if you can poke some
>information that would better help
>you assess if your case
>even will result in termination.
>
>
>Here is my advise.
>
>The ticket will say you cannot
>call any sooner than 7
>days, and no later than
>14 days. So somewhere in
>that time frame (closer to
>7 than 14), I would
>call the number on the
>ticket and setup your time
>to meet with the hearing
>officer / judge, by doing
>this I think you will
>be starting the appeal process.
>Usually it will be schedules
>for 1 month or 2
>out.
>
>When you get there, dress professional,
>and don't say anything or
>do anything until it is
>your turn to speak. The
>hearing officer often looks around
>the room to see how
>you are acting and builds
>an ?opinion profile? of you
>based on your behavior, gestures,
>and court room respect long
>before you even stand up
>and this can be important
>to your outcome. Using sir
>or ma'am when addressing them
>is very important. It might
>be a court hearing, or
>a private hearing officer. Tell
>them your side of the
>story as it happened, and
>provide good detail as this
>shows you remember the events
>clearly. Don't make ANY excuses,
>or try to justify the
>cause of your actions. Tell
>them it was a simple
>mistake and you should have
>used better judgment, and this
>was eye opening for you.
> Point out in passing
>that it was not your
>4 wheeler and that it
>was a fellow hunters vehicle.
>By pointing out it was
>not your 4 wheeler, it
>points out a higher probability
>for you to not know
>the 4 wheeler hunting laws.
>This is not an excuse
>as it is your responsibility
>to understand the hunting laws,
>but it is a helping
>point for them to agree
>it honestly could have been
>a mistake instead of disrespect
>for the law.
>
>Make sure to let them know
>you ARE accepting fault and
>are not there trying to
>get the ticket thrown out
>or fight the system. Make
>sure you let them know
>you are there to work
>this out and pay your
>dues. Explain your job situation
>and the termination that might
>result from this. You could
>go as far as to
>offer to pay the fine
>in full that day in
>return for a lowered charge
>to prevent employment termination. Ask
>the DA or the hearing
>officer, is there is a
>hunting course you can take
>to reduce the charges (much
>like driving school). Even if
>there is not it will
>show them you are willing
>to do what it takes
>to work this out and
>to protect your job as
>that is your goal, and
>that you are not trying
>to beat the system!
>
>By doing this, you will 95%
>chances get the penalty reduced
>to a lesser charge avoiding
>termination. The reason this should
>work for you is because
>they are not there to
>make sure they ruin your
>life. They are trying to
>make sure you get the
>point and don't commit this
>offense again, and like all
>business, they want their money,
>they don't care about the
>charge they put on your
>record. This is why they
>offer deals for guilty pleas,
>and this is why the
>DA meets with you before
>you talk to the judge,
>they are trying to get
>you to pay the fine
>with or without a "deal"
>so they can write it
>off which is their main
>goal, it is like the
>game show (let's make a
>deal). They also do not
>want to waste more time
>and more money to setup
>a trial for you and
>pay the judge and lawyer
>to fight you on this
>and potentially have you win
>and owe nothing. So if
>you waive the white flag
>and tell them you will
>surrender making it easy on
>them, they will more times
>than not return the favor
>by reducing the charges, fines,
>or both as a sign
>of gratitude for taking responsibility
>for your actions and being
>professional about it when meeting
>with them.
>
>If it is a pre-trial, they
>will give you 3 options.
>Guilty, not guilt, and no
>contest. Before making your plea,
>your will meet with the
>prosecutor where he will go
>over your case with you,
>it is there he will
>offer you a deal to
>plead guilty or no contest
>hoping you will accept it.
>It is at that time
>you can work with him
>and throw a counter offer
>that better suits your needs.
>If he is unwilling to
>budge on anything (very rare)
>then plead not guilty and
>take it all the way
>as you have nothing to
>lose, and the jury can
>then throw it out, or
>lower the charges your found
>guilty of. Also by taking
>it all the way, your
>record will not have this
>charge on it until your
>proven guilty which you can
>set the hearing date out
>like 3 months or more.
>When that time comes, you
>can extend the hearing day
>further. The court knows this
>and this is why they
>try to make a deal
>with you to close it
>out and be done with
>it.
>
>Best of luck to you. If
>you follow close to this
>advice, you will have a
>reduced charge offered to you.
>

I appreciate all this advice... You as well as a couple others in this thread have really hit home of what I was looking for. I am not looking to necessarily get off scott free, but I do need some small "clerical" help when all is said and done. I appreciate all the words and time you took. Here goes nothin!
 
I'm not positive, but if you live out of state, plan on a lot driving before this gets done.
 
If You don't Road Hunt?

Why the Hell do you like to keep your Gun Loaded on the Wheeler?

No Accident/Mistake!

You Knew & Told the Officer it was loaded,Right?

We all make Mistakes!

But damn man!

When the DWR Drags this Thread in to Court You've kinda Hung Yourself!

So?

Is this something Your Dad Taught you to do Growing up as a kid?

Learn it from a Friend maybe?

Or are you just tryin to stir some SShhitt around here?:D:D:D














I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
>
>If You don't Road Hunt?
>
>Why the Hell do you like
>to keep your Gun Loaded
>on the Wheeler?
>
>No Accident/Mistake!
>
>You Knew & Told the Officer
>it was loaded,Right?
>
>We all make Mistakes!
>
>But damn man!
>
>When the DWR Drags this Thread
>in to Court You've kinda
>Hung Yourself!
>
>So?
>
>Is this something Your Dad Taught
>you to do Growing up
>as a kid?
>
>Learn it from a Friend maybe?
>
>
>Or are you just tryin to
>stir some SShhitt around here?:D:D:D
>
>
>

Elk, As I have stated before, I NEVER road hunt, I forgot to take the shell out of my chamber before getting on the wheeler, when the officer asked me I immediately realized the mistake I had made.... Or are you just trying to stir things up around here???

Second, as I posted earlier, have you NEVER forgotten your wallet @ home when you got in your truck? EVER??? its the same thing. We all know its the law, but a few times in my life I have been 20 miles from home and stop to get gas, etc, and realized I left my wallet @ home, etc... Its the same concept... or when you left your wallet, you intentionally did that?

Anyway, if I hung myself, then fine... Guess it doesnt matter. I am going to follow what a few people have suggested and see where it goes.
 
Well!

I'll give you Credit where Credit is Due!

You manned Up & admit to your Mistake!


Hope they don't make it too rough on you!











I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
"Second, as I posted earlier, have you NEVER forgotten your wallet @ home when you got in your truck? EVER??? its the same thing."


You keep trying to make light of your law violation but the above statement could not be further from the truth! I put it more like forgetting to put fuel in the airplane! A potential deadly mistake!!

I'm a local Hunter Education Instructor here and there may be room in my next class if you're interested. You need to be retrained. It is AUTOMATIC to take the shell from your weapon as soon as you are no longer in a serious hunting situation, certainly before nearing others or any vehicle.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
>"Second, as I posted earlier, have
>you NEVER forgotten your wallet
>@ home when you got
>in your truck? EVER??? its
>the same thing."
>
>
>You keep trying to make light
>of your law violation but
>the above statement could not
>be further from the truth!
>I put it more like
>forgetting to put fuel in
>the airplane! A potential deadly
>mistake!!
>
>I'm a local Hunter Education Instructor
>here and there may be
>room in my next class
>if you're interested. You need
>to be retrained. It is
>AUTOMATIC to take the shell
>from your weapon as soon
>as you are no longer
>in a serious hunting situation,
>certainly before nearing others or
>any vehicle.
>
>Joey
>
>
>"It's all about knowing what your
>firearms practical limitations are and
>combining that with your own
>personal limitations!"

I KNOW my mistake isnt the smallest one... but geeze, you guys are hilarious... I wish I could lead a life as clean as yours. I KNOW the law, I made a MISTAKE, I don't ride around every time I am on a wheeler or in a car/truck with a loaded weapon... And you are right, maybe the citation is what i needed, cause I assure you, I am more conscious of it now than ever... which is a good thing. I have learned my lesson, be it without any penalties or be it the maximum $1000 bucks, 6 months in jail.

Anyway, Joey... Im glad you have never done anything to put anyone in danger in your life... if that is true, continue to crucify me... if not, I get your point... Ive moved on, I got the advice I was looking for, I learned my lesson, and I will pass that info on to my nephews and hopefully one day my own kids...

All I have to look forward to now is the long drive, and a court date. If it turns out crappy then so be it. Maybe I deserve it. If I get a lesser charge, I think that will be because I have lived 30 years and have a clean slate to begin with and truly made an honest mistake. While that mistake could have harmed myself or someone else, it didnt, and I won't put myself or anyone else in that position again.

Is this where I am suppose to post the nude pic so this thread gets nuked??? :)
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13 AT 01:49AM (MST)[p]The only critical thing I'll say is, wow. Ask the prosecutor, before the court date, for a plea in abeyance. If he will, you'll be put on "shadow probation" for a period of time, you'll pay the fine, and you'll plea "no contendere" on paper. If you stay out of trouble for the period specified, nothing goes on your record and life goes on. The only catch with this would be that if five years down the line, you get caught again, the plea can be presented as evidence. A plea in abeyance will not screw up your background but make sure you are honest with the prosecuting attorney and follow through. Good luck and always travel with empty firearms. Except for marshmallow guns. Those are safe to ride with when they are loaded.

http://www.utcourts.gov/howto/criminallaw/plea_in_abeyance.html


"There is no reason why I have to tolerate your stupidity if you are unwilling to tolerate mine." ME
 
Remember Maxxy!

This is MM!

That is 'sage' advice,lol!

You've already been Convicted on MM!

You've been Tried on MM!

You've almost been HUNG on MM!:D

Oh JUDAS!

MM Jail is next!:D


They're gonna wanna Slap Your Hands Perty Hard but I don't think you're going to Jail!

I'd get ahold of the MM Lawyer 'Roy' here at MM!:D:D:D

Let's just say He knows How!:D













I used to know of places worth Hiking in to for Elk & Deer!
Thanks to Illegal Bastards & the USFS not enforcing Rules you can Zing in to them Places on Wheelers now & not see a Damn thing!
But by GAWD it don't take long for them U-Tards to get there with all the Unethical BS and the New Technology!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13 AT 08:17AM (MST)[p]You need to forget about 90% of the crap that you read on this thread. Everyone is going to say crap to you as if they have never done the same thing, or other hunting violations but the difference is they never got caught so now they get to play the role of "perfect hunter".

I don't care what anyone in here says, EVERYONE here has broken a hunting law in their hunting career whether they know it or not. Something as simple as driving on a closed road, bullet in the chamber, and many others. Reading the proclamation there are 1000's of laws in there and I know that everyone here has broken at least one of them. it does not matter if it is a bullet in the chamber, or taking a piss on a BLM protected flower. So lets save the teachings and lessons for your kids.

The DWR can print this forum off and take it to court if they like because there is nothing here that is incriminating to you. you are admitting fault and that is just what you will do when you face the judge.

Follow my advise and you will be just fine!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13
>AT 08:17?AM (MST)
>
>You need to forget about 90%
>of the crap that you
>read on this thread. Everyone
>is going to say crap
>to you as if they
>have never done the same
>thing, or other hunting violations
>but the difference is they
>never got caught so now
>they get to play the
>role of "perfect hunter".
>
>I don't care what anyone in
>here says, EVERYONE here has
>broken a hunting law in
>their hunting career whether they
>know it or not. Something
>as simple as driving on
>a closed road, bullet in
>the chamber, and many others.
>Reading the proclamation there are
>1000's of laws in there
>and I know that everyone
>here has broken at least
>one of them. it does
>not matter if it is
>a bullet in the chamber,
>or taking a piss on
>a BLM protected flower. So
>lets save the teachings and
>lessons for your kids.
>
>The DWR can print this forum
>off and take it to
>court if they like because
>there is nothing here that
>is incriminating to you. you
>are admitting fault and that
>is just what you will
>do when you face the
>judge.
>
>Follow my advise and you will
>be just fine!

I know what the MM Jury does to people, I knew prior to posting that i would get both good and bad... that doesnt bother me, but like you said, hypocrites do bother me... ANyway, I am going to follow a few of the postings advice and take whatever comes to me. A appreciate your posts. Thanks again!
 
I say you tell the boss what happened and see what he says. Its pretty clear what the law is in regards to loaded firearms. I don't even load a round in the chamber anymore while walking until ready to shoot. Just too dangerous. The exception to this is handguns which I always have loaded and are in a holster until ready to use. And its legal to have a round in the chamber of a handgun in NV in the vehicle. Not sure about Utah but this was a rifle anyway.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13 AT 10:10AM (MST)[p]Maxxy, does a person have to be pure, innocent, and never having broken any laws to offer sound advice or to tell you that you seem to be making light of the violation that you were written up for? I think not so get off that horse, you been riding it too long!

My Uncle had a scar from his eyebrow to his hairline, gotten from a "empty rifle" when him, my Dad, and his other Brothers had just gotten a report from the neighbor that a big buck was just up the road from them on our ranch. They all piled in and the "empty gun" damn near killed him before getting out the driveway while sitting in the back seat.

Anyway say what you will of us hypocrites if you want. I'm not near perfect and I don't generally join in, point fingers, and place blame but this thread and your complacent attitude toward the violation itself, struck a knee-jerk reaction in me so you're getting my two cents worth weather you want them or not.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-17-13 AT 11:04AM (MST)[p]Sage I typically read your threads and advice and agree with you. But holy crap, he must-a hit a nerve the way you jumped all over him. To be honest I can't believe this thread is still going!

Maxxy, as has been repeated many times by others, and was originally posted by me. A Plea in Abeyance is your only chance to not have it on your record. In an earlier thread you stated that "you know you broke the law, but it was not your intention to break the law at the out set."

That is the common man's definition of a "plea in abeyance." Which is also a plea of "no contest" or written plea of "no contendre." It means you recognize and do not contend with the fact you broke the law, but you had no intention to break the law when you climbed on the 4-wheeler.

In the legal world a prosecuter also has to prove "mens rea" which means in Latin, "a guilty mind." Or brought into english, the intent to break the law. Well you just said multiple times you did not intend to break the law, therefore you have proven there was no "mens rea" with regard to your violation. That is why the court would put you on a sort of probationary period in which you sure as hell better not break the same law again. Because if you do the same crime twice in a short period the court looks at it in terms of you must have had the "mens rea" or intent to break the law, especially considering we let you off with a warning the first time!!

Hope this helps the judge jury and hangsmen on MM to understand that in no way is a "plea in abeyance" a not guilty plea. In fact it is just the opposite, it is in fact a guilty plea, but with the side note that you didn't mean to. So how about a little mercy this time.
 
Pookie, He said, "Stonefly. I made a mistake that in 99.9% of the time is harmless, should something like that have such dire consequences? Its like speeding on the Freeway (or anywhere for that matter), yes, it is breaking the law, but 99.9% of the time it doesn't affect anybody, and I personally think what happened with me is less dangerous than speeding. Again, that's just my opinion."


Harmless? Just like speeding? Doesn't effect anybody? Yes as a Hunter Ed Instructor and someone who has seen a lot thru the years.., maybe it did strike a nerve and no wonder why!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Huh, didn't see that post from him. Noted, I can see why that one strikes a nerve. Sometimes the OP just needs to shut up and quit posting. They just dig their own grave.
 
He broke the law, thinks the penalty shouldn't apply to him, and wants confirmation of such.
They see them every day at the Courthouse...
 
>He broke the law, thinks the
>penalty shouldn't apply to him,
>and wants confirmation of such.
>
>They see them every day at
>the Courthouse...

Alright, you got me, you guys are too good... Happy hunting this weekend... Hope you all kill monsters :)

Sure wish you guys would move on... I have
Safe hunting... I'll make sure I get it all right this time :)
 
Aw Hell, I just cant help myself!

You better get a Lawyer, otherwise, you ARE going to have a baby 9 months after you got this ticket!

"If you get upset or offended by ANY website forum
post.....especially mine, you need serious
intervention!"
 
>I'm an attorney in Utah. I
>can help you. I don't
>want to discuss this on
>an open forum. PM for
>contact info. If this is
>the same officer I'm thinking
>of I've had clients who
>dealt with him in the
>past. Do not go to
>the prosecutor and admit guilt.
>You have several options we
>can discuss, but don't go
>admit guilt!

I think that hurdled was passed about five miles back perry mason.


4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
That Game cop was out of line to begin with and fishing.. What a bullshit law. But thats Utah for you.
 
>That Game cop was out of
>line to begin with and
>fishing.. What a bullshit law.
>But thats Utah for you.
>


Yes he made a mistake, but it is only a BS law until your friend or family member is shot, by accidentally getting shot by them or someone else "accidentally" firing their loaded gun while on a wheeler or in a car.

I agree with the law 100%!!!!!
 
Maxxy,

Bummer deal. Getting a big ticket while trying to enjoy the outdoors makes what should have been an enjoyable experience a big downer.

I do not argue with the law, but I do empathize with the loss of what should have been an enjoyable time away from the pressures of work etc..
 
>Maxxy,
>
>Bummer deal. Getting a big
>ticket while trying to enjoy
>the outdoors makes what should
>have been an enjoyable experience
>a big downer.
>
>I do not argue with the
>law, but I do empathize
>with the loss of what
>should have been an enjoyable
>time away from the pressures
>of work etc..

Thanks Wildman, It really did leave a sour taste in my mouth. Again, I accept responsibility for making the mistake. But as I already knew, I would draw some heat for even bringing up the topic on here, which is fine and somewhat justified.

I felt so crappy after it happened I considered heading home, but was absolutely happy i stayed when I filled my General Spike tag on the night of the 7th day. I needed the meat in the freezer and it worked out well, although it could be the most expensive elk I ever shoot :)
 

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