I drew a Colorado Muzzleloader Elk tag. And after arguing with the F&G they just don't understand. If you look at the difference with a 45 or 50 cal. A 45 out shoots a 50 period. With the same amount of powder, and the same grain bullet. The 45 is faster, and has more energy. So why is the 45 illegal because it's not big enough? Anyway I just order a 50 cal for this hunt and it makes me sick to shoot a gun that will not have as much nock down as the one I got.
Compare 45 to 50 cal.
- Thread starter huntnrich
- Start date
AndymanSavage
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It's because muzzleloaders don't kill with hydrostatic shock like centerfire rifles do. The "knock down power" with smokepoles really isn't generated by speed, but by lobbing a bigger, heavier projectile into the soft tissues and bone of an animal. Bottom line, a .50 kills better than a .45, especially on bigger animals like elk.
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FrontierGander
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If the .45 shoots the right bullet for an elk, sure it will do the job swiftly. Its bad enough seeing guys using the tiny 245-295gr Powerbelts with a big powder charge on elk and then complain about poor bullet performance. Elk are big critters and you just dont go after them with light weight lead bullets.
I much prefer a .50cal
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
I much prefer a .50cal
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
longshooter338
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50 is the way to go on elk, as for the tiny 245-295 grain powerbelt remarks well i call bs, My old man shot his bull 100 yds with a 270 gr powerbelt platinum and it freight trained him the bull dropped in his tracks and never moved a muscle!
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FrontierGander
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> 50 is the way to
>go on elk, as for
>the tiny 245-295 grain powerbelt
>remarks well i call bs,
>My old man shot his
>bull 100 yds with a
>270 gr powerbelt platinum and
>it freight trained him the
>bull dropped in his tracks
>and never moved a muscle!
>
>
>[email protected]
>[email protected]
>
>
>'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
Its the truth though. Powerbelt bullets doesnt recommend anything smaller than their 338gr Platinum for elk. Using a 245-295 powerbelt or even smaller is just asking for trouble.
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
>go on elk, as for
>the tiny 245-295 grain powerbelt
>remarks well i call bs,
>My old man shot his
>bull 100 yds with a
>270 gr powerbelt platinum and
>it freight trained him the
>bull dropped in his tracks
>and never moved a muscle!
>
>
>[email protected]
>[email protected]
>
>
>'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
Its the truth though. Powerbelt bullets doesnt recommend anything smaller than their 338gr Platinum for elk. Using a 245-295 powerbelt or even smaller is just asking for trouble.
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
bragabit
Active Member
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- 811
So you guys are telling me that your 50 cal. 300gr bullet will kill an elk better than my 45 cal 300gr bullet? I have never understood why there is a caliber restriction. I can see a weight restriction on the bullets. Entrance hole is going to be the only advantage for the 50. The 45 is going to have a better BC.
This is about like arguing does a 168 grain bullet out of a 30.06 kill an elk better than a 168 grain bullet fired from a 7mm.
This is about like arguing does a 168 grain bullet out of a 30.06 kill an elk better than a 168 grain bullet fired from a 7mm.
longshooter338
Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-11 AT 06:23PM (MST)[p]>So you guys are telling me
>that your 50 cal. 300gr
>bullet will kill an elk
>better than my 45 cal
>300gr bullet? I have
>never understood why there is
>a caliber restriction. I
>can see a weight restriction
>on the bullets. Entrance hole
>is going to be the
>only advantage for the 50.
> The 45 is going
>to have a better BC.
>
>This is about like arguing does
>a 168 grain bullet out
>of a 30.06 kill an
>elk better than a 168
>grain bullet fired from a
>7mm.
Yeah thats pretty much right 50 cal muzz slug is going to reach a larger diameter on impact than a 45 cal slug which is going to cause a larger wound channel and kill quicker,As for the 06 vs the 7 mag your comparing apples to grapes 06 non magnum vs a magnum 06 2700fps vs 7mag 3200fps come on your not really that nieve are you!
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'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
>that your 50 cal. 300gr
>bullet will kill an elk
>better than my 45 cal
>300gr bullet? I have
>never understood why there is
>a caliber restriction. I
>can see a weight restriction
>on the bullets. Entrance hole
>is going to be the
>only advantage for the 50.
> The 45 is going
>to have a better BC.
>
>This is about like arguing does
>a 168 grain bullet out
>of a 30.06 kill an
>elk better than a 168
>grain bullet fired from a
>7mm.
Yeah thats pretty much right 50 cal muzz slug is going to reach a larger diameter on impact than a 45 cal slug which is going to cause a larger wound channel and kill quicker,As for the 06 vs the 7 mag your comparing apples to grapes 06 non magnum vs a magnum 06 2700fps vs 7mag 3200fps come on your not really that nieve are you!
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'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
longshooter338
Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-06-11 AT 06:21PM (MST)[p]
>
>
bragabit
Active Member
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- 811
Since you want to talk powerbelts lets compare a few from their site.
.45 cal 300gr Platinum Aerotip 150gr powder. BC .278
100 yards Velocity 1720 Kinetic energy 1971
.50 cal 295gr copper clad Aerotip 150gr powder BC .186
100 yards Velocity 1557 kinetic energy 1514
.50 cal 338gr Platinum Aerotip 150gr powder BC .275
100 yards Velocity 1629 Kinetic Energy 1992
I wish they made two of the exact same bullets just in different calibers. Maybe they do I couldn't find them.
As you can see the 300 gr 45 cal bullets has over 400 more ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards than a 295 grain 50 cal bullet.
The 45 cal 300 and the 50 cal 338 are almost identical in ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
In every comparison of similar weight bullets the 45 is faster and carries a more kinetic energy.
http://www.bpishopping.com/skin/frontend/default/powerbeltbullets2010/docs/PBB26inchballistics.pdf
.45 cal 300gr Platinum Aerotip 150gr powder. BC .278
100 yards Velocity 1720 Kinetic energy 1971
.50 cal 295gr copper clad Aerotip 150gr powder BC .186
100 yards Velocity 1557 kinetic energy 1514
.50 cal 338gr Platinum Aerotip 150gr powder BC .275
100 yards Velocity 1629 Kinetic Energy 1992
I wish they made two of the exact same bullets just in different calibers. Maybe they do I couldn't find them.
As you can see the 300 gr 45 cal bullets has over 400 more ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards than a 295 grain 50 cal bullet.
The 45 cal 300 and the 50 cal 338 are almost identical in ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards.
In every comparison of similar weight bullets the 45 is faster and carries a more kinetic energy.
http://www.bpishopping.com/skin/frontend/default/powerbeltbullets2010/docs/PBB26inchballistics.pdf
FrontierGander
Very Active Member
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I brought this subject up. After reading the first 2 or 3 comments. I came home from work to do some more research, because what you guys said is totally wrong. I shoot a 460 gr bullet out of my 45 cal. With 110 grains of powder. It shoots 75 ft per second faster at the barrel than a 50 cal with the same load. Also it has 160 more foot-pounds of energy. Now please explain again how the 50 cal is the way to go for elk. That's the same problem trying to explain to these fish & Game. They think bigger is better and it's not. Do your homework. The 45 is by far a better ballistic gun than the 50. Sorry.
bragabit
Active Member
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No I have not ever shot powerbelts. I just used them in the comparison because that is what you guys brought up. The only bullet I shoot out of my .45 is the 260 grain DeadCenters from PRbullets. From the results I have had with them I have no reason to look elsewhere.
I have seen what a the white 45's can do with their 400 plus grain bullets. That is what originally sold me on a 45 caliber.
I have seen what a the white 45's can do with their 400 plus grain bullets. That is what originally sold me on a 45 caliber.
longshooter338
Active Member
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Been there done that on the whole white muzz thing shooting 2 inch long lead connical bullets that fall from the sky like rain,And then i bought a knight inline and shot everything under the sun out of it to see what the gun liked and performed the best in my data, not someone elses book data i dont know how many wet phone books i have shot through testing other bullets against powerbelts and none have came close , and as far as bc's out of a muzz gun, come on who cares they all suck, and remember we are only shooting 200 yds max when someone makes a better bullet then i will shoot it, entil then its powerbelts
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AndymanSavage
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Huntnrich..... Why did you post here? You are obviously smarter than everyone else...
Longshooter...... When you draw that wet phone book tag you are all set. That is the worst medium to test performance. It compacts bullets and virtually eliminates all fragmentation, which is what happens to a large percentage of PB bullets when they hit a big stinky bull....
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http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/
Longshooter...... When you draw that wet phone book tag you are all set. That is the worst medium to test performance. It compacts bullets and virtually eliminates all fragmentation, which is what happens to a large percentage of PB bullets when they hit a big stinky bull....
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FrontierGander
Very Active Member
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> Been there done that on
>the whole white muzz thing
>shooting 2 inch long lead
>connical bullets that fall from
>the sky like rain,And then
>i bought a knight inline
>and shot everything under the
>sun out of it to
>see what the gun liked
>and performed the best in
>my data, not someone elses
>book data i dont
>know how many wet phone
>books i have shot through
>testing other bullets against powerbelts
>and none have came close
>, and as far as
>bc's out of a muzz
>gun, come on who cares
>they all suck, and remember
>we are only shooting 200
>yds max when someone makes
>a better bullet then i
>will shoot it, entil then
>its powerbelts
>
>[email protected]
>[email protected]
>
>
>'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
The better bullet arrived 3 years ago:
Don't get me wrong, i love powerbelts but the topic is .45cal VS .50cal. But when it comes to elk, there are better bullets UNLESS you know what you are doing and how much powder to use Maximum with that Powerbelt. Heck i make my own anti over expansion insert for a powerbelt and only lose 6 grains average with a 100gr Pyrodex Charge. But thats a lot of work. I shot up well over 4,000 powerbelts last year as well as 1,000 other brand of bullets. I like to use the powerbelts on the range and even in the field, but that Thor bullet has really weakened me.
Why use a 338gr powerbelt and suffer from the recoil when you can use the 250gr Thor and push it as fast as you want and use it on moose and not have to worry about it coming apart?
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
>the whole white muzz thing
>shooting 2 inch long lead
>connical bullets that fall from
>the sky like rain,And then
>i bought a knight inline
>and shot everything under the
>sun out of it to
>see what the gun liked
>and performed the best in
>my data, not someone elses
>book data i dont
>know how many wet phone
>books i have shot through
>testing other bullets against powerbelts
>and none have came close
>, and as far as
>bc's out of a muzz
>gun, come on who cares
>they all suck, and remember
>we are only shooting 200
>yds max when someone makes
>a better bullet then i
>will shoot it, entil then
>its powerbelts
>
>[email protected]
>[email protected]
>
>
>'IT AINT EASY BEING ME'
The better bullet arrived 3 years ago:
Don't get me wrong, i love powerbelts but the topic is .45cal VS .50cal. But when it comes to elk, there are better bullets UNLESS you know what you are doing and how much powder to use Maximum with that Powerbelt. Heck i make my own anti over expansion insert for a powerbelt and only lose 6 grains average with a 100gr Pyrodex Charge. But thats a lot of work. I shot up well over 4,000 powerbelts last year as well as 1,000 other brand of bullets. I like to use the powerbelts on the range and even in the field, but that Thor bullet has really weakened me.
Why use a 338gr powerbelt and suffer from the recoil when you can use the 250gr Thor and push it as fast as you want and use it on moose and not have to worry about it coming apart?
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
longshooter338
Active Member
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Andyman, Yeah right ok, And frontier if your happy with the shell of a thor lol thats fine with me, btw what was the ending weight of that bloody slug/copper jacket ?
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FrontierGander
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Recovered bullet weight was 247 grains out of 250. The ballistic tip weighs 3 grains.
Its not a copper jack like on a powerbelt, its a full bore Barnes. They cost less than powerbelts.
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
Its not a copper jack like on a powerbelt, its a full bore Barnes. They cost less than powerbelts.
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
hornkiller
Long Time Member
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So i got a muzzy elk tag and was looking what to buy 45 or 50 then slugs and you guys are confusing the hell right out of me!
Who knows there stuff here or is it a pissing match?
I know andyhairmansavage killed a dandy bull last years what was you using?
Who knows there stuff here or is it a pissing match?
I know andyhairmansavage killed a dandy bull last years what was you using?
FrontierGander
Very Active Member
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>So i got a muzzy elk
>tag and was looking what
>to buy 45 or 50
>then slugs and you guys
>are confusing the hell right
>out of me!
>
>Who knows there stuff here or
>is it a pissing match?
>
>
>I know andyhairmansavage killed a dandy
>bull last years what was
>you using?
Depends on your state laws. I much prefer a .50cal
A ton more projectiles available.
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
>tag and was looking what
>to buy 45 or 50
>then slugs and you guys
>are confusing the hell right
>out of me!
>
>Who knows there stuff here or
>is it a pissing match?
>
>
>I know andyhairmansavage killed a dandy
>bull last years what was
>you using?
Depends on your state laws. I much prefer a .50cal
A ton more projectiles available.
www.FrontierMuzzleloadin.powerguild.net
hornkiller, I think it boils down to personal opinion, unless your hunting in a state like colorado with caliber restrictions.Both guns Are capable, of killing elk. But the sabot and bullet options for the 50 far out weights the options you have in 45. Shot placement and a well constructed bullet, is the most important no matter which caliber you decide.
utahbigbull
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I think FG hit the nail on the head. Doesn't matter to me wich is better between the 45's or 50's, hell, they will both kill an elk. I know of elk taken with everything from discinigrating power belts, hornadys, barnes, thors and everything inbetween. I know where I live there are probably 50 options for a 50cal to every 1 for a 45cal. Can do a lot more testing to find your "majic" load where I am at. And a consistent load is a lethal load.
Anaconda
Very Active Member
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(huntnrich said;
"45 out shoots a 50 period. With the same amount of powder, and the same grain bullet")
The whole idea of a bigger bore is you can burn more powder and shoot a heavier bullet.
As far as Powerbelts go, they have an unbelievable bad reputation for breaking up on bigger animals or when they hit a big bone.
"45 out shoots a 50 period. With the same amount of powder, and the same grain bullet")
The whole idea of a bigger bore is you can burn more powder and shoot a heavier bullet.
As far as Powerbelts go, they have an unbelievable bad reputation for breaking up on bigger animals or when they hit a big bone.
deadibob
Long Time Member
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Kody there's a big difference between powerbelts and powerbelt platinums. The platinums do hold together much better than a standard pb.
As far as wound channel I will debate that issue. a wider wound channel with a 50 yes, but have you heard of s.d., sectional density. A smaller diameter bullet with the same weight as a larger diameter bullet will have a greater s.d. which results in deeper (wound channel) penetration and that is a more ideal result. So the 45 will outpenetrate the 50 with all else being equal.
I've killed 10 deer with powerbelts but no elk. Personally I prefer the .45 over the .50 because it is flatter (I own and shoot both). If using powerbelts I definitely would prefer the platinums for elk but I use both for deer.
In reality both will kill fine but if using a standard pb for elk I would use a heavier bullet and try to avoid hitting big bone. I wouldn't worry about taking a shoulder shot with a platinum pb.
As far as wound channel I will debate that issue. a wider wound channel with a 50 yes, but have you heard of s.d., sectional density. A smaller diameter bullet with the same weight as a larger diameter bullet will have a greater s.d. which results in deeper (wound channel) penetration and that is a more ideal result. So the 45 will outpenetrate the 50 with all else being equal.
I've killed 10 deer with powerbelts but no elk. Personally I prefer the .45 over the .50 because it is flatter (I own and shoot both). If using powerbelts I definitely would prefer the platinums for elk but I use both for deer.
In reality both will kill fine but if using a standard pb for elk I would use a heavier bullet and try to avoid hitting big bone. I wouldn't worry about taking a shoulder shot with a platinum pb.
