Creatine

C

CRC

Guest
I have been working out on a regular basis for about 2 years now and am tired of not seeing results. I have been considering using some creatine. Has anyone had any experiences with it? Good or Bad. And what is the best kind of protein to use?
 
come on slammy have at it, go off on your l-glutamine kick! lol

As for me I quit using creatine a long time ago. Some people get results with it and some don't. The best supplements to use are your BCAA's and omega fatty acids. You can buy them in pill form at GNC. Slammy will tell you aftershock and muscle milk for protein but I have to say isopure for post workout and metrx meal replacements between meals. Remember that if you want to build muscle you need 2 grams of protein for every pound of body weight you have. I've been trying to follow that rule but getting in 550 grams of protein a day is starting to put a lot of water weight on me. So I'm cutting it back to 375 grams per day. Ultimately supplements work different on everyone so you really have to experiment to find out what works for you. I think it's obvious creatine is not the way to go. For the most part bcaa's and omegas work for everyone since they are the basic required building block needed to turn protein into muscle.





He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
I have used creatine in the past and you will get results, your wright will increase and your size as well. However, after you stop taking it, you will lose a little size. Be careful taking it, mix it with juice when I took it I mixed it with water and I had some serious bathroom issues from it. Also, hydrate, hydrate and hydrate drink LOT'S of WATER when taking this.

Any other ?'s let me know if I can anwser them I will.


Slide
 
First off you have to understand what creatine is and how it is benefitted.
Our bodies produce it in small qty's. It is also found in red meat like steak, but you have to eat it pretty rare to get any.
Creatine hydrates the muscle cells which in turn inflates them with water, which in turn causes better protein synthesis (the break down and absorbsion of proteins.
To get more creatine into your body, you need to supplement with it and use a very high glycemic transport which causes an insulin spike which forces the creatine into the muscle. I currently use one by Twinlab called "Creatine Nitrate Fuel", another good one is "Cell Mass" by BSN. Taking creatine by its self will do nothing, it needs sugars to drive it home.
I have had mixed results with creatine, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You need about 20 grams a day, in 5gr doses throughout the day.
If i were to limit myself to one supplemnt like that, it would be L-Glutamine. It is the most abundant amino acid in our bodies and by adding more, it keeps you in a positive nitrogen balance and anabolic, but both glutamine & creatine can be used together for a double blast.

I can assure you one thing.....if your not getting enough calories in your day, NOTHING will give you the results your looking for.
Like stinky mentioned, 1 1/2 grams of protein MINIMUM per pound of body weight for positive muscle growth, 2 if your taking hard core supplements.

One thing i will disagree with on what stinky said was an Isopure drink for post workout. There are no carbs in that drink and carbs are more important for post training than even protein. Glycogen is the reason for that. Carbs replentish the glycogen stores you just forced out of your muscles with intense training, you have GOT to drink a high glycemic carb immediately following your workout to get those glycogen levels back up quickly. The Creatine Nitrate Fuel or Cell Mass will do a great job at accomplishing that. I am also a fan of "Aftershock" by BSN, excellent post workout drink.

Don't hate me Stinky!! ;-)






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WFT? high clycemic? why not drink a low carb shake with quick absorption and have a coke to chase it? ROFL! Actually I prefer to eat granola bars and have some sunflower seeds instead of loading up on those carbs. If i do that my body bogs down and I get groggy. But like I said everyone is different and you need to definitely listen to slammys advice above cuz it's spot on. Just figure how to do that in a manner that fits you. As for high calories I will second slammy's advice. If you want mass you better eat, eat, eat, and eat some more. I'm at about 7 meals a day on non busy days, I think slammy is slightly higher.





He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
Wow that is some great info. I think I will try some. And what type of sugars are you talking about (Simple or Complex). I have been trying to stay away from sugar as much as possible. What are you eating for your meals? Sorry about all of the questions I just want to finally get into the shape.
 
I would also like no know what you guys are eating 7 plus times a day. I have been working out for 12 years and if I ate that much in a day I would look like the good year blimp. I think it all depends on your metabolism, mine is way slow. I am 5'10 and try and stay about 165-175 in weight. I have had people tell me that the more I eat the faster my metablism will get. All it ever does is put on the pounds and not in a good way, and I am eating healthy. like said before you have to know what works for you. Personally I could I like to be a little trimer, if I go over 180 I don't feel like I am in shape and fill too bulky. But I am short and don't think bulky works for me. Too much protein also bulks me up to much
 
I drink 3 beers and eat a double whopper after my work out.

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Mike Sucks.

"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
Lol NUNYA....i'm on that diet now!!

I do bodybuilding shows, so i have a sponsor that does my diets for me. They have me on 6800 calories a day starting out, split into 7 meals a day, my metabolism is on fire when i do that.
In 14 weeks weeks, they took me from 15% bodyfat down to 2.2% the day of the show and i did NO cardio whatsoever, it was all done through diet....beleive it or not.

The foods they put me on are super hot burning (thermogenic) and cause me to be hungry all day long, even at 7 meals a day.
The carb content are spread tyhroughout my day, highest and simplest in the mornings so i burn them prior to my evening training time.

Like i mentioned in my previous post, diet is the main piece of the puzzle, hands down.







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Here's another question. I'm not interested in building mass. My primary interest is endurance and cardiovascular capacity. I'd rather be able to ride my mountain bike for 50 miles or hike all day than have big arms.

Do some of these suppliments help a person on the endurance end of things? I'm thinking of riding in a 24 hour solo race this coming winter.

Bean
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-09 AT 03:01PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-01-09 AT 02:59?PM (MST)

In summation, Slammy's got it.

To add:
Most creatine mixes out there are combined with simple/fast digesting sugars, which as Slammy said, helps spike your absorbtion of the creatine it's mixed with and the protein you should be drinking after. Note: most creatine supps out there are jam packed with fillers/flavors/and extra crap. Creatine Monohydrate and a simple sugar, not all the fancy mumbo jumbo.
i.e. Alot of bulking bodybuilders chug a soda after a workout. This spikes your glucose levels for maximum absorbtion.

Personally, I don't much care for creatine. In bulking stages, I just felt inflated, puffy, and soft. Most bodybuilders are like that in their off-season bulking stage, and I liked the extra size; but I just couldn't get past the lack of definition.

And, as Slammy stated: Diet is 75% of the battle!!!

Once you get your diet right, it's cake to follow and get in your groove. Check out [www.fitday.com]. It's a database of foods and their nutrition facts. You can also create goals, graphs, etc. to make sure you're staying on track.

Oh yeah, and for protien, you can't get much better than Optimum Nutrition Whey. Simple, cheap, and relatively tasty!
 
Excellent post BG, you nailed it!

beanman-
Creatine wouldn't really help you in your biking, it's more for an added push in a short blast like in weight training, not too mention you's have added water weight that could slow you down! Lol

For all that use protein supplements, too much or too many whey shakes will cause water retention and a soft look. Try to get the bulk of your proteins through meals versus shakes.
Eggs are still the #1 source. My trainer has me consuming 26 a day at showtime......i need to buy some chickens!! Lol





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The reason behind lots of food and weight loss is this. If you eat in the morning your metabolism starts up. Around mid morning you start to run out of food, aka your metabolism is shutting down. at lunch you have been out of energy for quite some time and your body thinks you are in starvation mode. Therefore your body's natural defense is to store as much fat as possible in order to prepare for the next famine. After it stores some fat it then utilizes whats there as energy. Around 3 you start getting hungry again and your metabolism starts to shut down again since you don't have any energy(food). If you want to loose weight you cannot allow your metabolism to shut down. In order to do this you must eat at least every two hours. BTW: metabolism on means fat is burning along with the food in your stomache believe it or not. If you want mass your meals need to be high in proteins such as fish and lean chicken. The carbs that burn longest and are better for your metabolism are brown and wild rices, beans, red potatoes, etc. The meals don't have to be large to keep your metabolism going, they just have to be enough to satisfy. Usually a handful size of carbs and a handful size of protein. If you ever get hungry you just screwed up cuz now your more apt to store some fat in the next meal. If you are worried about leaning out read the book "body for life" by bill phillips. I guarantee anyone that follows that book to the T in 12 weeks will loose 10% body fat at least. My 52 year old father did that program and went from 250 lbs to 185 lbs and had a six pack. That book took me from 225lbs in college at 20% body fat down to 4% body fat and 190lbs. If you want mass this book is the worst thing to read because it doesn't cater to that area. I'm still basically following that same plan but I now eat 4 times as much protein and twice as many carbs. That along with slammys advice I've been able to get to a respectable 275lbs of which not to much fat has been added. Hope this explains the metabolism thing.




He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
IF YOU TWO (PUNK & stinky!!!) DON'T QUIT ARGUEING Pro IS GONNA PUT YOU BOTH ON HIS DIET!!!

LMAO!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
ROFDL! Oh man is that ever the truth!
If mountain dew ever goes out of business ur gonna see pro go through remission! I don't think he calls it mountain dew though, I believe he refers to it as "MY PRECIOUS"!





He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
YA SEE!!!

ME & Pro DO HAVE SOMETHIN IN COMMON!!!

GOTTA HAVE MY DEW!!!

NOT 7 A DAY THOUGH!!!



"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
I wasn't going to chime in, but discretion got the best of me. I worked out 3 times a week for a couple years and never really saw any results. After getting laid off I started working out 6 times a week, and only saw modest improvement. After doing a lot of research I finally found a real diet and workout routine that works best for me.

Slam nailed it if you want to be a body builder. Most of us don't, but do want to be healthy and in good shape.

Start by knowing your goals and level of commitment. Research your routine, as much as you do your diet. I found I was doing a lot of work for little reward, same thing every other day and it was all strength training not muscle building. I was eating protein like it was going out of style, and going to bed at 8 because I was exhausted.

Your body can only digest the protein required to regenerate the muscle. Protein requires energy to digest it. If you burn off all your energy in your workout, your body doesn't have enough to digest the protein so you get no net benefit.

The calculation I use that has helped me is .7G protein X body, and 3.6G Carbs x body weight. You need the carbs for energy for your workout, as well as to digest the protein.

Get your max gain naturally before supplementing. Take LGlutamine, and vitamin C for now. That is all you need until you reach your peak. Make sure your calories are over 3500. You will gain plenty and loose fat.
 
That just seems like a lot of calories. I have always tried to maintain around no more than 2000 calories per day and really tried to stay between 1600 and 1800. I must really be doing something wrong!!!
 
Most people significantly underestimate the calaries they consume. But with you may or may not. It all depends on your goals. If you are trying to gain, you need the calaries. If you are trying to loose, than you need a little less. More important is the balance of the diet for each cycle, and the workout routine that allows you to keep building muscle while burning fat.

This is a good article that may help you determine what you need for your goals.

http://weighttraining.about.com/od/nutritionforweights/a/muscle_diet.htm
 
Excellent point archer, thank you!

CRC-
2000 calories are wahts "average" for the general population, that's why it always says "based on a 2000 calrie diet" on the back of almost everything you eat.

For the most part and the average Joe, 2000 will only let you maintain what you have. Less will make you lose, more makes you gain...it all depends on what YOUR body has been used to.

When my trainer had me up to 6800 a day, i was building some serious muscle and burning fat, but my actual body weight didn't change more than 9 pounds during that 14 weeks, yet my LBM (lean body mass) went up 13 pounds!
Keep in mind there is 2 lbs of fat for each percent.
So 10% fat = 20 lbs :)








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If you are working out 3 times a week you will have results. You may no bulk up but you will be a more healthy person in general. If your trying to bulk up you must also get plenty sleep along with a high calorie intake and working out to complete muscle fatige. Also your body change is so gradual you may not notice it. I look in the mirror and don't think I look any different than I did 4 years ago when I was lifting twice a day and eating like a horse. But looking at pics of me back then and now I think holy @$#@ I was big! (for a short guy)


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Mike Sucks.

"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
Thanks for all of the great info guys. This should point me in the right direction.
 
What would you remommend that a reasonable body Fat % should be at if you are not a body builder and just want to be in good shape? That would at least let me know how high to set my goals.
 
between 10 and 20 percent. CRC

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Mike Sucks.

"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
My trainer told me that MOST guys like to be between 14-17%.
That's pretty much a flat stomach and slightly visable abs.
"Ripped" is considered anything less than 10%.

CRC- I saw your PM, i'll answer it at home when i have more time. :)

NUNYA is right....NOTHING happens over night and you MUST be patient no matter what your goals are.
I started training seriously when i was 30 and was 165 lbs.
I am now 42 years old, 5' 11" 225 and and in the best shape of my life....and still improving each year! :)

I eat about 5000 calories a day and train 5 days a week, chit HAS to happen when your doing that!



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Feleno is at work and and couldn't get on MM at the moment. He asked me to post this. I cut and pasted this directly from his email to me.

"Hey fellas, it's Feleno here. I'd like to see exactly what you guys are packing after your years of working out. Can you pleeeeease post some pictures of you guys with just your undies on? Thongs preferably....and get every angle....front, side and rear view. I want to really evaluate your packages....I mean progress. Thanks in advance!"

I thought it was a little strange of him to ask, but I don't judge anybody.


Steve
 
LOl!
FELENO's already seen my show pix, i aint posting them on a hunting site!!

One_dryboot says i need a camo speedo!!
LMAO!!








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No chit! I was gonna look at your facebook pics slam, but quickly became homophobic and had to close the screen!

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Mike Sucks.

"I needed a cheesy signature saying like everyone else"
 
All right I've got a question for you. I'm packing a bit more than I used too. I want to loose some weight and get into better shape all around..ie hiking, sports etc.
Its been forever since I've done any lifting. For a while I ran a lot but I'd rather not kill my knee's completely. What kind of workouts are going to help me to get in better overall shape? Is there anywhere on the web I can look at that will give me some examples.

Thanks

Andy
 
loose weight???


I definitely know this one. I use to do it all the time till i got sick of that skinny cut look.


wake up at 6 and do 30 minutes of cardio on only 2 glasses of water. do a very intense cardio program on a bike, eleptical or swimming. 3 days a week. wait one hour and eat 300 calories. eat a total of 6 300 calorie meals spaced evenly throughout the day. On the other 3 days you aren't doing cardio do cardio type weight workouts. Take off one day a week and eat everything in sight including the nastiest deserts possible. Repeat for 15 weeks and sue me if you aren't pushing 10% body fat down from 30%. I've done this program on almost every obese member of my family



He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
I walk on my treadmill between 4-4.2 miles an hour for about 30 minutes a couple of times a week. I am also utilizing 3 lb. weights during my walk. I sweat like a pig and when I'm done, I'm soaked. I don't really get out of breath or have to slow down while I'm walking this fast. Can that still be considered a cardio workout or do I really have to be pushed until I need to slow down a little bit from being out of breath. My legs can definately feel it when I'm done but I just never get out of breath. What do you think?

Steve
 
No offense wissard but I doubt walking is going to do much to cut you up. Read "body for life" like I said before and follow it to a "T". I guarantee you will be shredded. My father couldn't see his pants belt loops because his gut hung over so far. Man was he fat. He weighed 250 lbs. When he started he couldn't even jog half way around the block. Bad knees, bad back, etc etc. I pushed him and he got all the way down to 180 something and actually had a six pack. He could run 2.5 miles in 20 minutes even. I even got pics. But as slammy said you aint gonna get any size off this one. Your gonna loose a butt load of mass! And thats why I don't do that anymore.



He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
I JUST REGURJITATED MY MOUNTAIN DEW ALL OVER MY CAPS BOARD!!!

AND I QUOTE:::

I think holy @$#@ I was big! (for a short guy)

LMAO NUNYA!!!

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
Stinky- I know the walking I do isnt going to build any muscle. I'm wondering if it will help me burn the fat. I'm about 10 pounds over weight and I want to get down to about 180. Will the walking with out actually getting out of breath help do the trick?

Steve
 
Wiszard-
A HUGE misconseption that people have is when they are simply trying to burn fat, they need to kill themselves on cardio to do so.

You would probably be surprised at how little cardio it takes to burn fat if your diet is pretty clean.
The best way to find out how much cardio you need is to go to a gym and get on an eliptical machine, set it on "fat burn", enter your age & weight and it will give you your "target heart rate" for fat burn.
That is all you need to do to burn fat, "cardio" will be a little higher. If you enjoy walking or running outside, get yourself a heart monitor and wear it while your working out so you know how hard to push yourself to stay in the fat burn mode.

Hope that helps answer stinky's question! Lol






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I've seen what you eat slammy and know what you look like! people like you have no business giving normal folks advise on how to loose weight. Your idea of weight loss is only eat the dollar menu 3 times a day with no cardio to be at 5% bodyfat and to maintain 10% all you need is to add pizzahut twice a day on top of that. Why don't you go pet your chinchilla or will that burn too many calories? ROFL!



He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
I guess my diet sucks ass then!! I'll try the eliptical thing then and check my heart rate so see where it needs to be and go from there. Then I'll eat some french fries with ranch!! HaHa

Steve
 
Lol stinky, it's the "off season" for me and i'm in my bulking phase, plus we're in a recession.
6 double cheeseburgers are only $6!!

I watch my chinchilla on her wheel, that's about all the cardio i'm doing right now!!! Lol






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Bessy, don't believe the lies being spewed by stinky and punk! I only drink 3-4 Mt Dews a day, hell this week it's been only one a day. Also, I do NOT call it "precious", I call it was it is, "The Nectar of The GODS"! FWIW, people who drink Banana Creme Muscle Milk have no business commenting on what others drink. Sick, wrong, and perverted!

PRO

www.oddiction.com
 
"THE NECTAR OF THE GODS"!!!

LMAO!!!

I DRINK ONE OR TWO A DAY & YES I KNOW I SHOUDN'T!!!

I'VE COME TO THE CONCLUSION IF IT TASTES GOOD IT SURE THE HELL AIN'T GOOD FOR YOU OR SO THEY SAY!!!

NEVER TRIED ANY OF THEM PUNK & stinky BEVERAGES???

MAYBE WE'LL EMPTY THEIR CANS/BOTTLES & FILL THEM WITH SOME NECTAR!!!

GOT YOUR PM stinky,LMAO!!!

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

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REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!
 
When I do the so called "fatburn" on the eliptical my target heart rate range is 120 - 140 BPM I am sure that everyone is different based on their weight and age though. My biggest problem is doing the machine after an intense lifting routine I find it pretty hard to lower my heart rate and it stays in the cardio range. Do you think I need to rest for about 5 minutes before I start my fatburn?
 
CRC-
That's a very common scenario.
Your heart rate is already turned up after your workout....no big deal.
My point was there's no need to push your body to extreme limits if your goal is to simply to burn fat.

Make sure you get in a high glycemic post workout drink of your choice after your workouts or you will put your body into atrophy mode and lose muscle mass.

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High glycemic............Hmmmmmm, like an isopure protein shake chased by a mountain dew?










He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
Would you recommend a gatorade, fruit juice or what other kind of drink?


"Cooters R Cool"
 
Actually an apple juice would do great combined with protein if you don't plan on using aftershock. Ol slammys drink of choice post workout is loaded with sugars. I would imagine that apple juice or the likes would be just as good and wouldn't give you the same lip curling twang that aftershock does. As for gatorade I'm not too sure. I don't know if its gylcemic content is high enough. You really do need an energy replinishing drink of some sort post workout and a gatorade just don't cut it for me. I've always prefered a fat free chocolate milk or apple juice. I get an instant pick me up that seems to set me straight.


He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
Hi Bean, I can answer your biking question, cuz I'm a sprockethead.

The only way you can increase endurance is by well, training for endurance. there are supplements that can inhibit the build up of lactic acid you can take, but all that does is reduce your perception of fatigue and muscle soreness. As far as diet goes, you need to up your complex carbs and fats, because that is what your body will use for fuel after your reserves are gone. Complex carbs are used more easily by the body but also provides longer acting fuel when it is converted.

You can only store so much glycogen, and on an endurance race, depending on what you weigh and how fast you are riding, you can use it up pretty darn quickly, then your body switches to stored fat and if you really really screw it up, muscle. For example, I have burned over 5000 calories in a century. YOu cannot possibly intake that much during a ride, so you have to train your body to use it's reserves, and you can't build reserves without eating right and often. I have to make myself take in 300 cals per hour or I tank it hard by the end of the race. I have not gained a pound, but my composition sure has changed.

As far as supplements go, the L-Glutamine as mentioned above is one you'll want to look at. It really helps with recovery after a hard (read LONG) workout. Also look at recovery drinks that have more protein than carbs; and I use an electrolyte replacement with protein during my long rides. I have found that I tolerate Cytomax products the best. You can find out more from www.cytosports.com. They do have whey protein products that are very mixable, ie, you don't need a blender. The key to biking is balancing carbs with protein most of the time.

Don't forget that half of endurance training is giving yourself equal time to recover. You can easily overtrain endurance, and you won't have any if you don't let your body heal and refuel.

Pred
 
Taking regular creatine monohydrate by it's self or just in water will do absolutely nothing.
It will turn into "creatnine" which is a waste and your body will just expose of it.
You MUST use a high glycemic drink to cause the insulin spike to drive that creatine into the muscle.
That's why MOST post workout drinks have both creatine, high glycemic carbs and alpha lipoic acid.
That trio will do the job and get the creatine where it needs to go.
If you want to cut costs yet still do creatine, pure grape juice is the absolute best for a transport.

Here's another little tid bit i learned in the army....;-)
Be dang careful what time you take your creatine if your a caffiene drinker, especially coffee!!!!!!!
Like i explained earlier, creatine forces water into your muscle cells, caffeine is a diuretic and will work agianst it.

I LOVE my coffee in the morning, so i don't take my creatine till early afternoon prior to my training, then again immediately after :)











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Really? what are you taking? creatine suppositories? ROFL!
Sorry I couldn't resist! Hey slammy, I've also heard caffine kills creatine. I'll cut back on mixing my creatine with my mountain dew! ROFDL!



He who stomps the greatest stinky wins!
 
Two years with no results? may need a little more then creatine

check out t-nation.com. lots of good advise and they have a store that sells Biotest supplements.

I use the Low carb metabolic drive (probably best tasting shake ive had when mixed with water), Surge for after workouts, combined with BCAA's and creatine. plus a few others.

This combination mixed with healthy meals and lots of water has made a difference for me.

check it out and good luck.

"Sometime people say things that simply amaze me"
 

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