DEBATE - dkpeay vs. BigFin

TOPGUN- I hear ya, you can sure tell he's sucked in the KOOL AID.
I liked how he put the sfw spin on my other thread. There membership #s are down people are finally seeing what's REALLY going on. They sure as hell dont want to debate with TONY - He knows too much about things,and is a hell of alot more credible than PEADAY.IRS fillings are easy to get around as a non profit.lol.You only need to report what's on paper- cash transactions save both the seller and the buyer from paying capital gains taxes.Why would DON want a non disclosure form signed?? That's a red flag. But anyway let's hope they (SFW) go away and the sooner the better.NO GREAT LOSS
 
Will Doc, Don't hold your breath. Memberships are up, attendance at the expo was up, People putting in for the hunts at the expo were up. I do not think that SFW is going to go away very soon. I guess that I can see what kind of person you are knowing all the ways to cheat on taxes and why would you pay capital gains on something when you are buying it. Then again, it is Topgun and Doc that have been snowed over pretty good. But then again, Doc joins topgun on knowing everything. I do hope that the both of you have a GREAT EASTER. you deserve it.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-07-12 AT 11:45PM (MST)[p]I think you meant to start your post with WELL not WILL.
And the seller pays capital gains tax!! I dont think you can see sh#t.Just because i know about IRS codes does that mean i cheat? or maybe it's because i have sold a couple of pieces of land and have paid capital gains tax?? You have a nice easter too.
And be careful when Don sits down you dont break your neck.
 
Good man Doc, By the way, glad that you have sold a few pieces of land. It was you talking about cheating. But so you know, a 501-c3 doesn't worry about the same taxes as you. Therefore you are wrong on your statement. Don't worry, I will not break my neck as I know what goes on and just how honest SFW is. They are very honest. The ones that think they are dishonest are the ones that assume things. They do not know. I will have a HAPPY EASTER. Thanks
 
"And be careful when Don sits down you dont break your neck."


That is too funny Doc! I imagine it's getting to the point where even DP and the members are wincing every time Birdman makes a post, LOL! I really wonder why Fin would be asked to sign that form if everything is on the up and up. It's surprising Birdman hasn't come up with something really interesting to get around that one too!
 
Top gun - He seem's to avoid the real questions. Give him awhile he's probably looking on wikipedia for info- it's a great site. I'm sure there are lot's of guy's on this site that would love to hit him in the face, only problem is you would have to hit Peaday in the belly to do it. That would be getting 2 birds with 1 shot. Lol
 
Beginning in 2011 Auction tags in CA now go into a big game management fund, so the proceeds from the tag that was auctioned off in SLC go directly into this fund to be used only on big game projects. The elk tag that was auctioned off brought in a near record low amount for that tag.
 
I bet it makes Topgun and Doc feel really good to be able to make fun of someone posting on a thread that does not agree with them. Such big people. They bask in their glory. Keep going. I will take it. You sit down and make fun of Don Peay at the same time. Makes for a big person. Don is one that can take it also. He has been hammered before and come out on the top end. No I don nto have to go to wikipedia for info. I know what goes on here in Utah with SFW. I know what great things that they do. Your loss, our gain to have Don here fighting for the hunting rights of ALL individuals. Look at all the tags that Utah gives out now for elk, sheep, moose, etc that we did not have before SFW. Great organization. Thanks to those that leed SFW forward and continue to make hunting better.
 
SFW taking credit for the great elk in Utah, is like the spoon taking credit for Rosie O'donnell getting fat. LOL.


I wanted to take a scalp,but the kill was not mine.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-12 AT 06:16PM (MST)[p]"Your loss, our gain to have Don here fighting for the hunting rights of ALL individuals. Look at all the tags that Utah gives out now for elk, sheep, moose, etc that we did not have before SFW. Great organization. Thanks to those that leed SFW forward and continue to make hunting better"


Hard not to make fun of someone that makes posts like the above, LOL! Do us all a big favor and keep Don and his SFW sideshow right there in Utah and let him "enhance" your state all you want. What a joke! Incidentally, since you are such an expert on Utah, how do you know so much about AZ to say what you do? Your heart may be in the right place pardner, but your noggin sure isn't!
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-12 AT 08:07PM (MST)[p]Sorry tweetie-8 post's from you and you did'nt answer any questions. Just the old how great sfw is spin. Over 200 post's on this thread and 90% are against sfw.Long before your org. came about we had a 3 year wait on elk LE. I drew 3 tags on one of the best unit's in utah at the time (1980-1990)so PLEASE dont try to take credit for that.Now your last post -this WILL be the last lesson on spelling i will give you! hint preveiw your post or use spell check.you said (no i don nto)-did you mean no i dont have too??(use wikipedia)and leed(lead)??YES you do need wikipedia-Who's the idiot?? NOW if you want to answer THE QUESTIONS reply if not just drink the koolaid and quit trying to be the voice of SFW.(shoppers food warehouse)lol
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-12 AT 08:26PM (MST)[p]"NOW if you want to answer THE QUESTIONS reply if not just drink the koolaid and quit trying to be the voice of SFW.(shoppers food warehouse)lol"


DocD---If he's the voice of SFW, it's no wonder they have a big problem with the negative way that most people look at the organization!
 
Boy doc, ya got me. I screwed up on my spelling. Oh by the way, you spell preview this way, not preveiw. Maybe that is the way you were taught. Sorry. I am sure that you did draw three tags back when a big bull in Utah as 300. That is a nice bull, Hope I can kill one that big this year. One big difference between then and now is there is almost four times the people now that live in Utah. I guess I figure that with more people putting in trying to kill a big elk, chances of drawing are getting harder and harder. More and more people every year to put in. Topgun, You wonder how I know so much about Arizona. Will I really don't know much but I do know about SFW and Arizona. I do have a question for you, How do you know so much about Utah when you say you do not even want to hunt here. I guess I am like you. Does it make you proud that I am starting to think like you? You and doc are my idle. Doc if the spelling is wrong, I am just trying to be like you. Love you guys. Have a great evening.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-08-12 AT 09:32PM (MST)[p]Bordman---I don't believe I have ever claimed to know anything about Utah other than that most of the members on here that live there say it's all f***ed up and a big part of the tag issue is because of DP! Why would I want to hunt where everyone says it's so screwed up and tags are almost impossible to draw? Incidentally, it's "idol", not "idle", but I thank you for both of us, LOL! By the way, there may well be 4 times the people living in Utah now, but I doubt that there aren't 4 times the hunters than there were then or anywhere else. If you have those facts and figures, please post them up. Keep on making silly statements like that and we'll keep jumping on them!

Rockydog---I don't believe anyone should be making statements on the Forums like Birdman does without being called on them. Sorry you don't feel that Doc and I should be able to counter them, but that's what forums are normally for, so that is your opinion and I disagree with it.
 
Looks like you Boys are gonna need a Room!



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It's been a long hard ride
Got a ways to go
But this is still the place
That we all call home
 
Topgun, Thanks for setting me straight. I so apprieciate it. You are my idol. You are so smart. Thanks again. Looking forward to that fishing trip this summer back there. I will try to make it. Thanks for the pm invite.
 
Hawkeye, thanks for your efforts. I attended the UofU meeting and will be there for this one as well. If help is needed let me know. Can't offer much more than my time and willingness to help set-up and such, but am willing to do so.

BigFin and Dkpeay, thanks for the willingness to do the debate.

I have high hopes that some questions will finally be answered.

I totally disagree with the tour as it is just another attempt to stray the discussion, as was done at the UofU.

We all know SFW has done good things. I think the best summary of this tactic was along the lines of: give me $5M and I will spend $1M on some awesome projects, then when asked about the other $4M I will show you how awesome the projects were that I spent the $1M on.

Can't wait!!!


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
Birdman---What's with the thank you for a PM that I never sent you regarding some fishing trip? Also, what's with the draw stats that have nothing to do with questions asked? You must be taking a class in how to respond without saying anything and the teacher should give you an A+!
 
Amen Gator! I have personally emailed "the don" 4 different times requesting to see a financial paper trail (so I could see where my money would be going if I were to join). Is it a surprise to anyone that I never even got a response?!

But then again, I'm not a kiss ass, and I sure as hell won't get under the desk of anyone like some others seem to be willing to do on this thread? What I want to know is what are they getting in return? Must be pretty good to be willing to throw their integrity under the bus and support an organization that clearly has something to hide. BOTTOM LINE... JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG WANTS ANSWERED! WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE MONEY GOING, AND WHY WON'T YOU (SFW) WILLINGLY AT THE DROP OF A HAT SHOW YOUR FINANCIALS?

Admit it, you won't because you know your org would be finished in a heart beat, and you can't because it's the livelihood of the higher ups of the org (which should never be the case for a conservation group IMO... that's when it becomes all about greed, and not the real cause... helping and saving Utah's wildlife)!

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see through the smoke and mirrors SFW.

EG


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"A man can be hard to find in the mountains, but you're welcome at my fire anytime."
 
FYI ALL---I just moved this down after it went way up above in the middle of the thread so it could be seen by all easily:

eyeguard (540 posts)
Apr-18-12, 12:00 PM (MST)
224. "RE: DEBATE - dkpeay vs. BigFin"

Amen Gator! I have personally emailed "the don" 4 different times requesting to see a financial paper trail (so I could see where my money would be going if I were to join). Is it a surprise to anyone that I never even got a response?!

But then again, I'm not a kiss ass, and I sure as hell won't get under the desk of anyone like some others seem to be willing to do on this thread? What I want to know is what are they getting in return? Must be pretty good to be willing to throw their integrity under the bus and support an organization that clearly has something to hide. BOTTOM LINE... JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS EVERYONE AND THEIR DOG WANTS ANSWERED! WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE MONEY GOING, AND WHY WON'T YOU (SFW) WILLINGLY AT THE DROP OF A HAT SHOW YOUR FINANCIALS?

Admit it, you won't because you know your org would be finished in a heart beat, and you can't because it's the livelihood of the higher ups of the org (which should never be the case for a conservation group IMO... that's when it becomes all about greed, and not the real cause... helping and saving Utah's wildlife)!

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see through the smoke and mirrors SFW.
 
Topgun you r so smart. I'll bet you have a large group of followers. Sorry but I'm not one of them.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-18-12 AT 02:45PM (MST)[p]OCK---Glad you figured that out and it's good you aren't with all the crappola you and the Birdman keep spouting! However, instead of making that smartazz remark, if you think the SFW is so great, why didn't you tell this guy where to get the stats he wants so he can join your great bunch since Don hasn't responded or forwarded the email to someone who could answer his questions?
 
I hope that any debate focuses on the corruption of SFW. Whether that corruption caused the explosion of funding for wildlife in Utah and if that funding has yielded results.
 
trammer---I don't think that's going to happen, but it sounds like just maybe we're on the same page on this one!
 
If you want to get the answers to this debate and have a good read, go to UT RESULTS/OR DEADLINE and read from 30 on down. Topgun's bullshizz is exposed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-12 AT 10:45AM (MST)[p]The only thing being exposed is your stupidity if you think anything other than what the two guys you mentioned(Troy and Bob)is not off base regarding the NAM. How can you believe that 100% of people who would like a top dollar auction tag can bid on it? Well, maybe they can bid on it. However, how are they going to pay for it if their salary in 5 years doesn't total what the tag went for? How about all the people living outside of the state many miles away that want to bug a ticket, but can't because the rule says you have to be there to validate it! How can you equate a person that lives 2000 miles from there having the same chane when the rule says you have to be there in person to validate the ticket purchase? You guys that believe the other way they are putting it are so far off base as to what the NAM actually says and means that it's ludicrous!
 
Not pretending to know anything other than reading all the posts in relation to SFW/Utah, but why doesn't Utah just DIY their own tags to insure that 100%+/- hits the ground?
 
good question. I think it's just a matter of a year or two and things will change bigtime. who knows? ;-)
 
Good question delmag1942 and the answer is probably because Don and his merry band of SFW politician buying people are so firmly entrenched in Utah that it will take a nuclear weapon to unseat them from going away from the way it's set up right now. That's why I don't give a rip if the people living there don't take it upon themselves to make a change. However, I won't sit still and let it happen in any other states without a knockdown dragout fight and I think all of the other nonresidents that are speaking out fpretty much feel the same way!
 
Just a few things to think about concerning our hunting and the DWR.

1. About 15-20 years ago Big Game hunting was not a priority. Some of our license money were used to fund non game animals.

2. Ranchers had a huge say on the amount elk Utah had. They wanted to get rid or cut numbers alot. IE Book Cliffs.
They still are a big player.

3. Some DWR big wigs didn't really care if we had 3-7 bucks per 100 does. Some research said that was enough. The DWR said that hunters would always buy a deer tag,because it is a family experience. It didn't matter how bad the hunting was.

4. The DWR didn't have money. Budgets were cut. Projects were cut. Things were bad.

Now we have a dirrector that is pro hunting, many projects,and transplants have been completed. Highways fenced, money allocated for predator control, hunting in general better in many areas.

There are checks and balances in place for conservation permits. If the DWR had total control it would only work if the right people were dirrecting the DWR. 20 years ago part of these permits would have gone to non game species and projects.

Sportsmen need to be involved with politics, and need to fight for sportsmen issues on the local and national level.

Just a few thoughts.
 
Once again looking from the "outside". Arizona Biggame raffle looks like it generates $500k off of 10 tags. Am I missing something or would this not be the way to go if needed?
 
>Once again looking from the "outside".
>Arizona Biggame raffle looks like
>it generates $500k off of
>10 tags. Am I missing
>something or would this not
>be the way to go
>if needed?

Any state that removes more than 2 tags from the draw pool per species is playing the Richie Rich game of taking care of dozens of folks that want to cut in front of the tag line every year.

One tag for a raffle with a cap of 1 ticket per person and one tag for an auction. The raffle is held online so anyone can participate. The auction is held inside the state but remote bids are accepted over the phone.

The state runs the raffle as part of the application process for regular draw tags. Raffle proceeds go to the state. The auction tag proceeds minus any credit card processing fees goes to the state.

AZ allows 365 season which boosts the value of the auction tags and increases participation in the raffle. I support that for up to 2 tags per species. Any more than that and you begin to impact the amount you raise per tag and begin to impact draw odds for the few remaining tags in primo units.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-25-12 AT 01:41AM (MST)[p]>Not pretending to know anything other
>than reading all the posts
>in relation to SFW/Utah, but
>why doesn't Utah just DIY
>their own tags to insure
>that 100%+/- hits the ground?
>

+1 ??? The Government is not as efficient apparently.

I think what these guys will find in the end is SFW did nothing illegal. To my understanding, a charity administrator is allowed by law to take 20% of revenue right off the top, the remaining 80 they can use for operating expenses and "money on the ground". If only 25% actually goes to the needy, then I think the governments position is that that's 25% those needy would have never had anyway so win win. This is how it works with a 501c charity like an animal rescue farm for instance. Not sure how that all works out when it has limitations imposed on it by a state. If the state requires 90% back on certain tags that would not leave much to work with (on those tags). It would be interesting to see the total numbers.

Not all charities are the same as you all know. It's up to the individual to do their own research and decide if that's the right fit for them. It's hard to make a desicion without these numbers from SFW. The fact they don't release them throws up a red flag to me. Someone mentioned RMEF gives 92%, I'd say thats about as good as it gets.
 

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