Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

For the record no one with DWR, SFW, RMEF, or MDF has asked me to quit posting.

I think the latest conspiracy that this is going on is someone just hoping he matters that much.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Hawk, in other words you
>are assuming what people have
>told you to be true.
> They are not.
>Jon Larson has said nothing
>like that for people to
>stay out. But then
>again you are assuming. What
>if I took on the
>same method you are usong.
> Some of my friends
>are saying mean and bad
>things about you. I
>don't assume what they say
>is correct though it sounds
>good. I guess I
>guess I can assume.
> Since you have so
>much time to be on
>mm you as an attorney
>must not have much to
>do. Maybe your not
>that good since you have
>plenty of time. But
>then again, with your hand
>on the pockets of rmef
>I guess you are making
>plenty of money to fight
>sfw and all they stand
>for. After all you
>are on the payroll of
>rmef.
> Top, if the shoe fits
>so be it.

Birdman, a size 15 would fit in your big mouth! You're very good at saying nothing and your trying to debate anything with Hawkeye is as bad as watching our resident troll get cut down every time he makes a post, LOL! Did Hawkeye say anything about the SFW leaderhsip? Answer---Nope; he stated some members and nonmembers had told him what he posted. That is all he has said and it may or may not be true. Maybe you and muley just didn't get the word yet! Now again you bring RMEF back into the mix when you know darn well that Hawkeye has stated more than once that he strictly volunteered his time and expertise to that organization. Please shut the heck up or back up your statements with facts to show that Hawkeye is making money off this and a paid employee of RMEF! Do yourself a favor and go back to that work you said was going to take up five weeks of your time since that was just a week ago you made that statement!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I demand the state of Utah at the taxpayers expense, do a complete audit on Hawkeye to see if he has received funds from RMEF?
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>For the record no one with
>DWR, SFW, RMEF, or MDF
>has asked me to quit
>posting.
>
>I think the latest conspiracy that
>this is going on is
>someone just hoping he matters
>that much.


Would you like us to take a poll because I know a lot of the members on one of those organizations that would definitely ask you to quit posting. Come to think of it, I'd bet that the DWR and SFW/MDF brass also wish you would go away since you are really helping to keep this in the forefront! Thank you Sir for all you're doing to help the cause, LOL!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 11:55AM (MST)[p]Ken, did I say that Jon Larson made that statement? How long has Jon Larson been with SFW? The conversations I am referencing date back a couple of years. If the SFW leadership is so hip on monstermuleys, why don't you invite them back to this forum. I would welcome their input on these issues instead of leaving Tristate to speak on their behalf. I would also like to hear someone from SFW (or the DWR) explain what a wildlife conservation initiative? is? See See 2016 Contract, Section 7.c ? http://wildlife.utah.gov/pdf/expo_permit_contract.pdf. Why leave the public guessing?

With regard to my profession, I have plenty of paying work to keep myself busy -- often times too much work. No, RMEF has not paid me a dime. You probably missed that FACT in prior posts too. They offered to retain me and pay my hourly rates but I volunteered my time on a pro bono basis. And I was happy to do it because they were offering to do the right thing by sportsmen and wildlife. I have huge respect for David Allen, Randy Newberg and the others I have worked with RMEF. Some things are more important than money but it is now time to get back to work.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Psssst, kid, you don't wanna go discuss a real issue on a public forum. Come on over here and lemme pour you another glass of this here SFW Koolaid.

Classic.

Almost four months since the fix was in and ya still can't stuff this under the rug.

April RAC agenda shows Conservation Permits as a topic. Might just as well bite off a hunk of that handout while we're at it.

I propose a %50 reduction in tags and %100 return to the DWR with all funds raised.



"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Psssst, kid, you don't wanna go
>discuss a real issue on
>a public forum. Come on
>over here and lemme pour
>you another glass of this
>here SFW Koolaid.
>
>Classic.
>
>Almost four months since the fix
>was in and ya still
>can't stuff this under the
>rug.
>
>April RAC agenda shows Conservation Permits
>as a topic. Might just
>as well bite off a
>hunk of that handout while
>we're at it.
>
>I propose a %50 reduction in
>tags and %100 return to
>the DWR with all funds
>raised.
>
>
>
>"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
>
>MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
>HUNT"
>Finn 2/14/16

What would happen if all the RACs were flooded with people that are fed up with this tag welfare and demanded that the 200 tags be cut or completely eliminated and put back in the public draw pools? The way I read it is that the WB CAN issue up to 200 tags, not SHALL issue 200 tags, the latter of which would be an actual requirement. If that was brought to an actual vote, would all the SFW clan on the WB have to recuse themselves from voting, including the guy that didn't on the RFP process that made the
decision to go with SFW? Just thinking out loud here since I don't know much about how the RACs work other than all the negative comments about them not paying attention to other than SFW demands, but I'm not sure that is always the case.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I know I've never been told anything about posting. But I also believe the internet is 90+% nothing more than banter and an outlet for those that don't have a better place to push their agendas. Yep I post because I have been on this site for over 10 years and it's kind of just a hang out place for me. But I only post about SFW because it gets old hearing a small handleful of people bash an organization that is truly fighting for our future wildlife. I went after Tony when he said he had a smoking gun, I argued with willy over Opt 2. Now I argue with Hawkeye. Each had a personal agenda as have I when it came to Opt 2. But the real battles are fought and won by others in arenas outside the interweb. The interweb is merely a place for those not really fighting the fights to pretend they have a voice. Or a last resort of those that have tried to have a voice and have been turned away from the real arena. I bark back because this is the site I hang out on and I disagree with Hawkeyes views. I tolerate some idiots because they have just as much right to be on here as anyone. But in the end I beleive those that are really in the fight do not have time or understand the interweb for what it is and that is why you don't see many posts from the higher ups in the SFW, MDF, RMEF, Politicians, or government agencies.

So post away all, it is what it is.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Top,
Ask the Gallary here who shows up to RAC meetings or WB meetings. Here you go again with ideas without any knowledge of reality.

Willy,
Why don't you enlighten our ever positive crime fighter on who shows up and who really gives a shittt when the rubber meets the road!

Elkfromabove,
How about you, give old Topdog here your thoughts on who wants to put their money where there mouth is when it comes to actual public support. BTW how many 30.00 memberships have been paid to UWC since you started charging?

Topgun your are the champ!
INTERWEB EXPERT EXTRAORDINAIRE
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I love it. Topgun has anointed himself in charge of polling for all these orgs.

I agree with Muley73. Nobody comes to the internet for credibility. The few that think its here have even less because they believe in "the power of the internet".
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>I know I've never been told
>anything about posting. But
>I also believe the internet
>is 90+% nothing more than
>banter and an outlet for
>those that don't have a
>better place to push their
>agendas. Yep I post
>because I have been on
>this site for over 10
>years and it's kind of
>just a hang out
>place for me.
>But I only post about
>SFW because it gets old
>hearing a small handleful of
>people bash an organization that
>is truly fighting for our
>future wildlife. I went
>after Tony when he said
>he had a smoking gun,
> I argued with willy
>over Opt 2. Now
>I argue with Hawkeye.
>Each had a personal agenda
>as have I when it
>came to Opt 2.
>But the real battles are
>fought and won by others
>in arenas outside the interweb.
> The interweb is merely
>a place for those not
>really fighting the fights to
>pretend they have a voice.
> Or a last resort
>of those that have tried
>to have a voice and
>have been turned away from
>the real arena. I
>bark back because this is
>the site I hang out
>on and I disagree with
>Hawkeyes views. I tolerate
>some idiots because they have
>just as much right to
>be on here as anyone.
> But in the end
>I beleive those that are
>really in the fight do
>not have time or understand
>the interweb for what it
>is and that is why
>you don't see many posts
>from the higher ups in
>the SFW, MDF, RMEF, Politicians,
>or government agencies.
>
> So post away all, it
>is what it is.


You better get your head out of wherever it's stuck because it's not just a handful of people in Utah or on this particular "interweb" as you lamely put it every time you post that are fed up with the Don and everything he and the organization stands for that is against the NAWM. This movement is being backed by THOUSANDS of hunters across the entire US that have been exposed to what the UTSFW stands for and so far we've beaten back their attempts to expand their tentacles to other states. If you think anything different, you are in another world! It's really telling that the huge Cody, WY Chapter dropped out of SFW because of the same thing we're now trying to cure and that is: "Where's the money going?". Pretty shameful when their own brass tells them to go pound stand and that's it's none of their business where the money is going!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Top,
>Ask the Gallary here who shows
>up to RAC meetings or
>WB meetings. Here
>you go again with ideas
>without any knowledge of reality.
>
>
>Willy,
>Why don't you enlighten our ever
>positive crime fighter on who
>shows up and who really
>gives a shittt when the
>rubber meets the road!
>
>Elkfromabove,
>How about you, give old Topdog
>here your thoughts on who
>wants to put their money
>where there mouth is when
>it comes to actual public
>support. BTW how many
>30.00 memberships have been paid
>to UWC since you started
>charging?
>
>Topgun your are the champ!
>INTERWEB EXPERT EXTRAORDINAIRE

I know who shows up now because of what everyone says has happened in the past with few believing they have any say or input the way SFW has taken over everything all the way to the Office of the Governor! What's the matter buddy? Do just a few simple questions that I posed scare you, LOL? Maybe down the line enough of the Utah folks are fed up and will do just as I stated!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye, like you said to me about you assuming what sfw is doing with expo money. I will turn around and say the same to you. Rmef is paying you to go after sfw. Yes I assume that but thinking, like you do, that it is true. You prove they are not like you said to me on a private message. You assume sfw is dishonest and they are the only ones that can prove othetw I se. Will I assume you are getting a paycheck from rmef with all you are doing. Now prove me wrong. Let me go to you bank statements and see for my self where your money comes from. Our and hawk. Why are you now going back a few years. We are not talking the past, we are talking now.
Top. What's the matter. When someone attacks sfw it is great. Especially on assumptions. No proof. But when someone attacks your leader, it is wrong. I think it is the same thing turned back on you. Keep drinking that Hawkeye kool-aid. It really must be good. Top I thought you were a great detective. Quit being a follower and research the truth. I know the Hawkeye kool-aid it too good to stop.
And from a previous statement made on this forum, no one from sfw, mdf, dwr, or wildlife board got only one kicked off mm. If they were kicked off it was something they said.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

73, that is a valid point.

Last fall I was kind of ushered into a group of sportsmen to provide feedback to Bishop's PLI. There was the same old faces in the group. Most were paid to be at those meetings. I was not. Meetings were held before 5:00 so to go it cost me vacation time.

Wildlife Board meetings are held during the day. If you are paid to be there, you will probably be there.

Not complaining, just stating fact.


"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

M73-

You are correct that very few people tend to show up for RAC and WB meetings. We discussed the reasons for that in prior posts. One thing is for sure, the DWR employees and the paid employees from the conservation groups are always there.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>73, that is a valid point.
>
>
>Last fall I was kind of
>ushered into a group of
>sportsmen to provide feedback to
>Bishop's PLI. There was the
>same old faces in the
>group. Most were paid to
>be at those meetings. I
>was not. Meetings were held
>before 5:00 so to go
>it cost me vacation time.
>
>
>Wildlife Board meetings are held during
>the day. If you are
>paid to be there, you
>will probably be there.
>
>Not complaining, just stating fact.
>
>
>"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
>
>MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
>HUNT"
>Finn 2/14/16

You should be complaining such that the common blue collar workers are able to attend important meetings without taking vacation. Don't you think that just maybe things are set up that way for a reason?
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Hawkeye, like you said to
>me about you assuming what
>sfw is doing with expo
>money. I will turn
>around and say the same
>to you. Rmef is
>paying you to go after
>sfw. Yes I assume
>that but thinking, like you
>do, that it is true.
> You prove they are
>not like you said to
>me on a private message.
> You assume sfw is
>dishonest and they are the
>only ones that can prove
>othetw I se. Will
>I assume you are getting
>a paycheck from rmef with
>all you are doing.
>Now prove me wrong.
>Let me go to you
>bank statements and see for
>my self where your money
>comes from. Our and
>hawk. Why are you
>now going back a few
>years. We are not
>talking the past, we are
>talking now.
> Top.
>What's the matter. When
>someone attacks sfw it is
>great. Especially on assumptions.
>No proof. But when
>someone attacks your leader, it
>is wrong. I think
>it is the same thing
>turned back on you.
>Keep drinking that Hawkeye kool-aid.
> It really must
>be good. Top I
>thought you were a great
>detective. Quit being a
>follower and research the truth.
> I know the Hawkeye
>kool-aid it too good to
>stop.
> And from
>a previous statement made on
>this forum, no one
>from sfw, mdf, dwr, or
>wildlife board got only one
>kicked off mm. If
>they were kicked off it
>was something they said.

Birdman,

Are you on the central RAC?
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Hawkeye, like you said to
>me about you assuming what
>sfw is doing with expo
>money. I will turn
>around and say the same
>to you. Rmef is
>paying you to go after
>sfw. Yes I assume
>that but thinking, like you
>do, that it is true.
> You prove they are
>not like you said to
>me on a private message.
> You assume sfw is
>dishonest and they are the
>only ones that can prove
>othetw I se. Will
>I assume you are getting
>a paycheck from rmef with
>all you are doing.
>Now prove me wrong.
>Let me go to you
>bank statements and see for
>my self where your money
>comes from. Our and
>hawk. Why are you
>now going back a few
>years. We are not
>talking the past, we are
>talking now.
> Top.
>What's the matter. When
>someone attacks sfw it is
>great. Especially on assumptions.
>No proof. But when
>someone attacks your leader, it
>is wrong. I think
>it is the same thing
>turned back on you.
>Keep drinking that Hawkeye kool-aid.
> It really must
>be good. Top I
>thought you were a great
>detective. Quit being a
>follower and research the truth.
> I know the Hawkeye
>kool-aid it too good to
>stop.
> And from
>a previous statement made on
>this forum, no one
>from sfw, mdf, dwr, or
>wildlife board got only one
>kicked off mm. If
>they were kicked off it
>was something they said.

First off, I only have one "leader" and he's well over Hawkeye, literally and figuratively! You have really sunk to an all time low calling Hawkeye a liar now on this thread and stupidly accusing him of being on the RMEF payroll. Keep up the BS posts right along with muley because we need to keep this and all the rest of the threads regarding your organization front and center and the two of you along with Tristate are doing a good job of it and I'll bet all the DWR and SFW/MDF brass are pooping little turds by now wishing it would all go away, but it's not by a longshot! Not even going to touch that last stupid paragraph because it's so far off from what was said that it's obvious it was way over your Birdhead!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Willy and Hawkeye,
Yes I will not argue that some in attendance are paid officials of various groups. However you both know for a fact that when SFW or Don make a call for sportsman to show up at said location for said reason they get the biggest response. Townhalls, RAC, WB, Political meetings. They have a voice that is heard! When this happens those people are not being paid! Willy I know you go without being paid but you also know that most of the sportsman that show up are NOT paid.

Look at the last townhall for the elk in the southern region last week. DWR, SFW and a shitt load of cowboy hats sceaming to kill all the elk! Where was RMEF, or its HUGE membership voice? Where was the UWC, Where was Hawkeye, Topgun, shotgun1, Stonefly, Deerlove, BillyBob??? Where were all of you? Pounding away on the internet, thinking of ways to topple the SFW, the one and only group that was at the meeting fighting to keep our elk herds. Thats whats going on in the real world in the real arena.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

73

Who put on the meeting? Or who was in charge? And this is an honest question. I love elk and am curious on who called the meeting? I wish I could have been there. I did not know about it or hear about it until after.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Ken-

Just when you start making a little sense, you have to go make yourself look like a fool again. As explained before, I volunteered my time to RMEF because I appreciated what they were offering to do for sportsmen and wildlife. Ironically, I made the same offer to SFW many years ago before I left the organization. You see, I enjoy getting involved and donating time and money to issues I care about.

If you want to make a bigger fool out of yourself, feel free to call David Allen (President/CEF of RMEF), Rod Trieke (COO of RMEF) or Randy Newberg (Board Member) and ask them directly. I have included their contact information to save you the time: http://www.rmef.org/ContactUs Unlike SFW, the leadership of RMEF will take calls and answer questions.

If you are too lazy to do that then you are always welcome to visit me at my office and I will personally show you a copy of our engagement agreement. However, we both know that you won't do that because you were unwilling to even speak on the phone when I previously offered to answer your questions.

So go for it Ken. Do some work. Spend a few minutes. And then report back to the group. You see, that is the difference between me and you. I am willing to put in the time and effort to research the facts and find answers. You simply talk about things you know nothing about. Good luck.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Top, interesting your statement. I guess it is OK for hawk and others, including you, to slam others on assumptions. That is what has been going on with the posts against sfw. All asdumptions. Ask hawk, he made the statement in a private message to me. He assumes. Is it OK for him to assume and others not? Doing the same as hawk and others, assuming. Works great. Why don't you guys come up with the truth? I know you don't like the truth. Keep drinking that Hawkeye kool-aid. It quenches your thirst. By the way, I am done telling the truth and getting slammed for it. I like your kind of truth. Assuming what is what. Come on, use your detective work. Find the dishonest things. You won't find any or we would not ask you to. Kool-aid taste great.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I love it. Hawkeye calls people a fool who won't take his word for something or the word of people who could be conspirators with him.

Face it Hawkeye, Birdman has your number. He's right. You have been on a crusade based on nothing but paranoia and conjecture claiming you have a right to know. Well now we have a right to know and we ain't gonna just take your word for it. I think you should be audited and all your income dragged into public light.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Classic Birdman. He tells us to try to "find the truth" and tells us that it is our obligation to affirmatively "prove that SFW did not use all of the Expo Tag funds for actual conservation" but then he runs back to the SFW headquarters and locks the doors. For the last time Birdman, you boys controlled the money and you control the records, therefore, if anybody is in a position to prove anything it would be you and SFW.

The Channel 2 News Story would have been a great opportunity for SFW to address this issue. Whiff.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye, how can I trust you with all the assuming you are doing. Remember you price post to me?. You assume what you are saying. Not the truth. You don't want the truth. Assumption works better for you. You and your followers can make assumptions and it is ok. If someone makes assumptions about you and your followers, it's not ok. Yes I am tired of the bs and lies and assumption you and your followers are spreading. Not the truth, assumptions. Tell me hawkeye, is this fight to get some political position or to get a following to start your own group. Hawkeye kool-aid. Not as good as sfw kool-aid as proven with followers.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Don't feed the Troll!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Wow. Only Tristate would conclude that Birdman "has my number." You two are quite the pair - the Dynamic Duo. Better yet, "Dumb and Dumber." See

Did I receive 200 public tags? No. Did RMEF pay me for my legal services. No. Did they offer to pay me for my time? Yes. Do Tristate and Birdman have any right to ask about that? No. So why am I even responding to their pointless questions? Because there is nothing secretive about the issue and I could care less if it is public knowledge.

P.S. - Birdman, I am still waiting for you to point out the inaccuracies in my responses to the DWR's FAQ's. Let me know when you get around to it.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Boy this is kind of fun doing what all the hawk followers do. Truth doesn't matter, just say something and watch it grow. Problem is I still prefer the truth and try to work it in. Hawkeye kool-aid. As you guys say, lots of sportsmen are following your leed. You should market that kool-aid.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]>Hawkeye, how can I trust
>you with all the assuming
>you are doing. Remember
>you price post to me?.
>You assume what you are
>saying. Not the truth.
> You don't want the
>truth. Assumption works better
>for you. You and
>your followers can make assumptions
>and it is ok.
>If someone makes assumptions about
>you and your followers, it's
>not ok. Yes I
>am tired of the bs
>and lies and assumption you
>and your followers are spreading.
>Not the truth, assumptions.
>Tell me hawkeye, is this
>fight to get some political
>position or to get a
>following to start your own
>group. Hawkeye kool-aid.
> Not as good as
>sfw kool-aid as proven with
>followers.

Please tell us interweb members here on the site what we have been "assuming"! All we see are fact after fact being posted showing money going in and nothing showing where it's going. That is fact and not any kind of assumption on our part! You and the rest of the drinkers along with the troll continue to do everything you can to come up with anything other than facts to muddy the situation and keep it muddied! Keep right on keepin on because this isn't going away any time soon and the DWR along with your organizations know it isn't and are doing their best, which is a farce at best, to try and cover their collective butts!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Come on hawk. Your starting to make a fool out of yourself. Keep assuming, your the best at it. Keep leading your blind followers. That's what your good at. You can twist things anyway you want as a lawyer as they are good at twisting the facts. You are not really good at twisting the facts the way you want them. Some shortcoming are coming out. Try adding some actual truth to your twisting. You are really good though at passing people off. Hope that helps you in your future endeavors. Now was that political or just to start your own group as you think Don is making a mint off this, your desire to do the same. I think it is.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Once again Birdman, can you identify a single mistatement or innacurancy in all of my posts on this thread? How about an faulty assumption, as you like to say? Very telling.

So remind me again what I assumed? I stated that current and former members of SFW have told me that SFW does not like its members engaging on this forum for a number of reasons, including the fact that it highlights the issues and make them look bad. And guess what. Your posts on this thread pretty much prove their point.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Top. Not worried about covering our butts. See as followers of this GREAT organization sfw, we know what the truth is. No one pulling the sheets over our eyes and no propaganda I or assumptions as as you guys are being fed. Just pure facts as to what goes on. Keep drinking that hawk kool-aid.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye states..."Ironically, I made the same offer to SFW many years ago before I left the organization. You see, I enjoy getting involved and donating time and money to issues I care about".

And shortly after not being accepted by the SFW at the level of involvement he sought Hawkeye started his personal crusade against the SFW.

Now that is an assumption that I made right out of the gate. Thank you for the confirmation.

It is always interesting to me that the anti SFW crowd always says they are fighting because they are trying to right a wrong for the general public or protect the average joe, family hunting, opportunity for kids all things that are good and very hard to argue against, (the fact is they are the same things I value and fight for) YET when you peel away the layers of almost any of the most vocal anti SFW crowd you find that single moment when the SFW did something or didn't do something that was taken personal. Something that sparks a vendetta, an "I'll show you" drive, some egos clash and when that happens it is interesting to watch the results and see the pawns that jump on board without knowing what the true driving force really even is. Humans are an interesting species.

PS,
Hawkeye you asked earlier if my occupation was a counselor or a psychologist, it is neither. I merely find it intriguing to watch people, manipulators and those that are easily manipulated have always caught my attention.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Top. Not worried about covering
>our butts. See as
>followers of this GREAT organization
>sfw, we know what the
>truth is. No one
>pulling the sheets over our
>eyes and no propaganda I
>or assumptions as as you
>guys are being fed.
>Just pure facts as to
>what goes on. Keep
>drinking that hawk kool-aid.


This right here is the reason the RAC and the WB are piss poor at best. We have RAC members like this that spew crap like this and expect us to want to come to a RAC meeting and bring an agenda? Good job Bird, you are doing great Reppin' your RAC and SFW!!!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Funny you should say that 73, or should I say Mr. Manipulated.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Dude, then take a very close look at yourself, your Papa, and the Birdman if you want a closeup of people that are being manipulated and can't see the forest for the trees!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Robi,
I know exactly what I'm following and why. I've laid it out multiple times. Was even called slimmy for it. No worries here I understand what flag I follow at any given time.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Dr. Phil-

I will save you the time and effort of multiple therapy sessions. If you "peel away the layers" on me "you find that single moment when the SFW did something or didn't do something that was taken personal. For me that single moment or issue was and is the lack of transparency and accountability with the Expo Tag revenues.

I think that is fairly obvious to most of the folks that know me.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,

You claim you have a "right" to audit %70 of the funds from the expo tags. Your wrong but its OK that you believe that's public money. But if you can use that logic then I think we have a right to audit you to see if RMEF is paying you to do their bidding in an attempt to take those same funds. After all don't we have a right to know what people and businesses are or have actually made the bid?????? You get to assume you are entitled to transparency.

I assume we are entitled to your financials and transparency from anyone trying to get those tags.

And I don't mind telling you I don't buy Randy Newberg as your character witness. Two years ago I accused and he denied that RMEF was in competition with SFW and then last year they are in a bidding war for the expo tags. Yep his credibility be gone.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

"Dr. Phil-

I will save you the time and effort of multiple therapy sessions. If you "peel away the layers" on me "you find that single moment when the SFW did something or didn't do something that was taken personal. For me that single moment or issue was and is the lack of transparency and accountability with the Expo Tag revenues.

I think that is fairly obvious to most of the folks that know me."


Oh really??? That's why you wrote this on another thread????

"To you sportsmen in other states, I would fight tooth and nail if I were you to avoid the temptation to turn to large numbers of wealth tags in the name of "conservation." Once you go down that road, it it is a slippery slope and leads to a host of problems. Once they get a toehold in your state, there is not turning back."


Sure doesn't sound like a single issue to me. When you look in the mirror can you see both sides of your face?
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,
I'm sure! That's a very noble cause and easy to champion in these parts. It's a good call for someone wanting to make a difference. Who could argue that....right? But just to clarify you wanted to be involved with SFW and when you were not asked to be like you were with RMEF you became concerned with the transparency....correct?
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I've lost all remaining respect of Bird and 73. Tri-bi lost his respect along time ago. I know to them that means nothing.

I find it funny that when the iron is hot and the bs is shown in plain sight, the sfw get real defensive and arrogant for some reason. When ever something good is happening evil always shows himself.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Jason,

I think being neutral on stream access is one issue.

I think expo tags helping the RMEF with their bid is another.

RMEF didn't try to compete and give more money back to the expo for charity. They did it for market share. It was a business decision not a charity decision. RMEF didn't have a proven way to protect hunters info in the application process. That is one reason why they didn't get the bid. SFW and MDF built the business and did all the ground work assuring success. They built up the expo and RMEF wanted to sneak in a bid with your help. You loss.

I agree more transparency should take place. It looks like things will be improving. Most sportsmen who are involved and the DWR know whats going on. I believe most are satisfied with the things that are taking place in Utah, to make hunting and fishing better. Things aren't perfect, but pretty good.

The expo was another success. Banquets are sold out and have done very well all over the state. I don't see the doom and gloom.

This is a no win discussion and I have more to do with my time, than to debate.

Greg
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 02:51PM (MST)[p]Robi,
You keep getting me confused with the actual SFW. I am arrogant at times not doubt about it. I think that comes off due to the fact that I honestly don't care if the internet gallery has respect for me. Those that know me well have plenty and it is reciprocated. I'm however not defensive. I just tell you what I think.

"Whenever(one word) something good is happening evil always shows himself" Now that does sound like perfect crusade talk. I mean original crusade banter!!! That's good stuff there!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>"Dr. Phil-
>
>I will save you the time
>and effort of multiple therapy
>sessions. If you "peel away
>the layers" on me "you
>find that single moment when
>the SFW did something or
>didn't do something that was
>taken personal. For me that
>single moment or issue was
>and is the lack of
>transparency and accountability with the
>Expo Tag revenues.
>
>I think that is fairly obvious
>to most of the folks
>that know me."
>
>
>Oh really??? That's why you
>wrote this on another thread????
>
>
>"To you sportsmen in other states,
>I would fight tooth and
>nail if I were you
>to avoid the temptation to
>turn to large numbers of
>wealth tags in the name
>of "conservation." Once you go
>down that road, it it
>is a slippery slope and
>leads to a host of
>problems. Once they get a
>toehold in your state, there
>is not turning back."
>
>
>Sure doesn't sound like a single
>issue to me. When
>you look in the mirror
>can you see both sides
>of your face?

Don't feed the troll boys! It's easy to see he can't add 1 + 1 and come up with 2!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

While the SFW boys are paying attention, let's see if we can get them to focus on any substantive issues. Please explain to me why SFW redacted so much of the information from thei application. See https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZDBGQVUxZ1FFb1E. Let me guess, all of that information was "confidential and proprietary" and it would damage SFW's business model if the public were to see it?

Now, take a minute and look at Page 91 of SFW's Proposal. The heading states: "Decribe any proposed use of the remaining $3.50 to benefit protected wildlife in Utah. Estimate the total revenue from the application fees that will be used to benefit protected wildlife in Utah, including any moner provided directly to the State of Utah."

Can you help the rest of us understand why the first two paragraphs of SFW's response to that question were redacted by SFW? Isn't information relevant to the public? More importantly, why was it redacted? Shouldn't the public be able to see what SFW plans to do with that $3.50 per application? Why not? Let us know what you find out.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Sorry to interrupt, but this is too funny. "
Stone cold fact: Tristate will fight to the death for three things in this world...SFW, poachers, and donuts. This is the guy that argued tooth and nail against banning drone use to aid in hunting because the government might go after his "large Coke" next. His stomach and his wallet over rule all else.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Jason,
>
>I think being neutral on stream
>access is one issue.
>
>I think expo tags helping the
>RMEF with their bid is
>another.
>
>RMEF didn't try to compete and
>give more money back to
>the expo for charity.
>They did it for market
>share. It was a
>business decision not a charity
>decision. RMEF didn't have
>a proven way to protect
>hunters info in the application
>process. That is one
>reason why they didn't get
>the bid. SFW and MDF
>built the business and did
>all the ground work assuring
>success. They built up
>the expo and RMEF wanted
>to sneak in a bid
>with your help. You loss.
>
>
>I agree more transparency should take
>place. It looks like
>things will be improving.
>Most sportsmen who are involved
>and the DWR know whats
>going on. I believe
>most are satisfied with the
>things that are taking place
>in Utah, to make hunting
>and fishing better. Things
>aren't perfect, but pretty good.
>
>
>The expo was another success.
>Banquets are sold out and
>have done very well all
>over the state. I
>don't see the doom and
>gloom.
>
>This is a no win discussion
>and I have more to
>do with my time, than
>to debate.
>
>Greg


If you believe any of that horsepucky you just posted
about RMEF needing that Expo and tags or the ability to protect the public that applied, then you, Sir need to see a shrink along with the rest of the manipulated followers! Saying RMEF needed that for market share, rather than the real reason that you and the rest of the followers know is the real truth is really pathetic.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Greg-

All I needed to know what that RMEF offered %100 of Expo Tag revenues + %50 net profits + %100 of conservation permit revenues + a fully independent audit of the entire event (see Tristate's photo). You can question RMEF's motives all you want but the fact is they offered to go above and beyond when it comes to accountabilty, transparency and giving back to actual conservation. I was happy to help in some small way even if RMEF eventually lost out under the criteria set forth in the DWR's formal RFP.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Top,
You have no idea who you are even talking to on the internet. I assure you that Greg is no SFW kool aid drinker nor an internet assholee like myself. You literally jump in and shoot your mouth off multiple times a day without knowing any resemblance of reality. You honestly bring zero to the discussion, helll Hawkeye won't even claim you. You're like Ike Clanton without a Curly Bill!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

" a fully independent audit"

That one still kills me. You mean a financial summary from a firm picked by RMEF and paid for by RMEF, and produced from data supplied by RMEF.

MMMMMMmmmmmmmm. This cool-aide sure does beat the heat.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Come on Tris we know you don't drink the coolaid just donuts! MM donuts!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Top,
>You have no idea who you
>are even talking to on
>the internet. I assure you
>that Greg is no SFW
>kool aid drinker nor an
>internet assholee like myself.
>You literally jump in and
>shoot your mouth off multiple
>times a day without knowing
>any resemblance of reality.
>You honestly bring zero to
>the discussion, helll Hawkeye won't
>even claim you. You're
>like Ike Clanton without a
>Curly Bill!

The most honest post in this thread.... ^^^
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

if you want a closeup of people that are being manipulated and can't see the forest for the trees.

Top, great statement from a person hundreds of miles away. You and others are being manipulated by Hawkeye and you can see the forest for the trees. You condemn the DWR, WLB, and others for what is going on then believe people on the post who continually make false statements and you comment on.them as if they are true. Shows how much knowledge you really have as to what is going on. Take off your blinders.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Robiland. You don't have respect for me, at least I know what is true and false. But the you don't break my heart. Plenty of respect from others. At least I got the guts to go threw the facts and know what is true and what is assumptions. Just keep drinking that hawk kool-aid. It's working great for you.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 06:51PM (MST)[p]>Jason,
>
>I think being neutral on stream
>access is one issue.
>
>I think expo tags helping the
>RMEF with their bid is
>another.
>
>RMEF didn't try to compete and
>give more money back to
>the expo for charity.
>They did it for market
>share. It was a
>business decision not a charity
>decision. RMEF didn't have
>a proven way to protect
>hunters info in the application
>process. That is one
>reason why they didn't get
>the bid. SFW and MDF
>built the business and did
>all the ground work assuring
>success. They built up
>the expo and RMEF wanted
>to sneak in a bid
>with your help. You loss.
>
>
>I agree more transparency should take
>place. It looks like
>things will be improving.
>Most sportsmen who are involved
>and the DWR know whats
>going on. I believe
>most are satisfied with the
>things that are taking place
>in Utah, to make hunting
>and fishing better. Things
>aren't perfect, but pretty good.
>
>
>The expo was another success.
>Banquets are sold out and
>have done very well all
>over the state. I
>don't see the doom and
>gloom.
>
>This is a no win discussion
>and I have more to
>do with my time, than
>to debate.
>
>Greg

Fortunately, there are many others who have taken the time to debate. And will continue to do so. And not just on the internet. And not just for the time being.

Your observation is correct when you say that most of those who are involved with the Expo as well as the DWR are satisfied with the things that are taking place to make hunting and fishing better. They should be since they have been able to run the show to their own criteria for 9, now 10, years. But most of us not involved see it differently. We don't believe the things taking place are making hunting and fishing better and since we have the option, per the system, to change things, that's what we have set out to do.

Try to shut down the train station and shut up the station master if you want to, but several trains have already left the station and won't stop for any whistles you care to blow.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Ken-

Are you ever going to get around to identifying what I said in this thread that is supposedly false?

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I think elk just admitted he has a master.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 04:59PM (MST)[p]>Top,
>You have no idea who you
>are even talking to on
>the internet. I assure you
>that Greg is no SFW
>kool aid drinker nor an
>internet assholee like myself.
>You literally jump in and
>shoot your mouth off multiple
>times a day without knowing
>any resemblance of reality.
>You honestly bring zero to
>the discussion, helll Hawkeye won't
>even claim you. You're
>like Ike Clanton without a
>Curly Bill!


I know that anyone that makes statements similar to the ones you, your Papa, and Birdman make all the time and like he made in that post needs a strong dose of right and wrong about what you appear to refer to as reality! The reality is that SFW is engrained in the state of Utah like a python that wraps around it's prey and slowly but surely strangles it to death. That's what appears to be happening and I hope there are enough guys that are now fed up with things to the point that they can get together and rock the boat to get things on the right track. As far as your comment about Hawkeye, I have not made one single comment on any SFW thread that differs with any fact that he's posted. If you can find any, please post them up and I also don't need anyone, including Hawkeye, to "claim" me, LOL!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>if you want a closeup of
>people that are being manipulated
>and can't see the forest
>for the trees.
>
>Top, great statement from a person
>hundreds of miles away.
>You and others are being
>manipulated by Hawkeye and you
>can see the forest for
>the trees. You condemn
>the DWR, WLB, and
>others for what is going
>on then believe people on
>the post who continually make
>false statements and you comment
>on.them as if they are
>true. Shows how much
>knowledge you really have as
>to what is going on.
> Take off your blinders.
>
I may be 1500 miles from Utah, but I can certainly see what statutes and contracts call for and nobody, including Hawkeye, is manipulating me. I dealt with over 150 different state laws and regulations along with some Federal laws on a regular basis my entire 30+ year career and have read closely everything regarding what we're dealing with here. It does help if you know how to read and interpret statutes, how they are enforced, etc., and I don't think you know squat about anything we've discussed here whether it's the fact that there is no transparency in the money made by the 200 tags or the fact that the DWR violated their own rules when they inappropriately went to the RFP system. I'm like Hawkeye in that I'm still waiting to hear you point out one single statement made on this thread that is false. Until you are the one that takes the blinders off, quits posting BS, and starts answering questions with facts, you are the one coming off like you're not even on this planet. We've all had enough of your posts about you knowing everything and nobody else does, so please either post something of substance or go plant a few more pheasants in the back 40!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16
>AT 04:59?PM (MST)
>
>>Top,
>>You have no idea who you
>>are even talking to on
>>the internet. I assure you
>>that Greg is no SFW
>>kool aid drinker nor an
>>internet assholee like myself.
>>You literally jump in and
>>shoot your mouth off multiple
>>times a day without knowing
>>any resemblance of reality.
>>You honestly bring zero to
>>the discussion, helll Hawkeye won't
>>even claim you. You're
>>like Ike Clanton without a
>>Curly Bill!
>
>
>I know that anyone that makes
>statements similar to the ones
>you, your Papa, and Birdman
>make all the time and
>like he made in that
>post needs a strong dose
>of right and wrong about
>what you appear to refer
>to as reality! The
>reality is that SFW is
>engrained in the state of
>Utah like a python that
>wraps around it's prey and
>slowly but surely strangles it
>to death. That's
>what appears to be happening
>and I hope there are
>enough guys that are now
>fed up with things to
>the point that they can
>get together and rock the
>boat to get things on
>the right track. As
>far as your comment about
>Hawkeye, I have not made
>one single comment on any
>SFW thread that differs with
>any fact that he's posted.
> If you can find
>any, please post them up
>and I also don't need
>anyone, including Hawkeye, to "claim"
>me, LOL!

"fact" or "opinion"????
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I find it absolutely comical Birdman of all people is preaching about facts and assumptions.
Birdman is the master if slinging BS and hope it sticks to something. Then when questioned he just disappears never to be heard from again until the next time he is needed to devert attention from the real questions.

Birdman still waiting for you to answer how SFW "restored the pheasant hunt in Utah" or how if the Sage Grouse gets listed "can stop all hunting". Those are your exact words. Don't be scared answer the questions. And while you're in the mood name ONE fact the Hawkeye has posted that is not true, just one?????




No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura chancho sucio.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>I think elk just admitted he
>has a master.

I certainly do have a Master, as do we all. He even loves us "haters" and those that call us "haters", imagine that!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 09:44PM (MST)[p]>I think elk just admitted he
>has a master.

I said the station has a master, not the passengers nor the trains. And as the station master, his job is to maintain the station and keep it open and to give out information to the public and answer questions about the schedules, destinations, and procedures needed to get the passengers to their destinations. And, as such, I thank him for doing a great job!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Shotgun. Never said sfw restored pheasants. Only said we were putting birds for people to hunt. Planting hens also. But the you put out that sfw is restored pheasant hunting. Prime example how rumors work. Great job.
Hawk manages to twist things around so that they no longer mean the same. But the that's a lawyer for you. Twist the truth to make the jury question the truth. How much does rmef pay you to do that. With the truth coming out today that sfw turned you down for a position we understand your motive to stop sfw. With them out of the way you can start your group and couple up with rmef. Double pay.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Shotgun. Never said sfw restored
>pheasants. Only said we
>were putting birds for people
>to hunt. Planting hens
>also. But the you
>put out that sfw is
>restored pheasant hunting. Prime
>example how rumors work.
>Great job.
> Hawk manages to twist
>things around so that they
>no longer mean the same.
> But the that's a
>lawyer for you. Twist
>the truth to make the
>jury question the truth.
>How much does rmef pay
>you to do that.
>With the truth coming out
>today that sfw turned you
>down for a position we
>understand your motive to stop
>sfw. With them out
>of the way you can
>start your group and couple
>up with rmef. Double
>pay.

Man you can sure make a jackass of yourself and it, in turn, just makes SFW look worse---Congrats!! What the hell have you been smoking or have you been over to Houston sniffing glue with the troll!!!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Before I call it a night, I wanted to post the "Birdman Quote of the Day". There were some duzies to choose from but the winner by narrow decision was the following whopper:

"You are really good though at passing people off. Hope that helps you in your future endeavors. Now was that political or just to start your own group as you think Don is making a mint off this, your desire to do the same. I think it is."

So which is it Ken? Is my push for transparency really just a jealous fit because I was "passed over for some position within SFW" or is it because I think Don is "making mint" off our public resources and I want to start a group and do the same.

Spend some time tonight going through my posts and perhaps tomorrow you can finally point out one of those lies and assumptions you keep referencing. Good luck.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16 AT 08:51PM (MST)[p]Damn, you are one devious sumbitch Hawk.

Fact
Y'all can spin whatever yarn y'all wish either pro or con SFW / DWR but none of these facts or fables will overcome the fact that many in the hunting community believe that there is some shady chit going on and they've had enough.

About a week or so back I sent an email to Division Leadership and the Wildlife Board asking them to gather all parties involved and work this out. Come to a compromise or understanding.

If the thought process is to just wait "The Haters" out, y'all are going to be waiting one hell of a long time. The Division will reach the point where they've had enough, several politicians have had enough and realize it's an election year.

So either stay hunkered down like a bunch of victims or deal with the issue like men. Be honest, don't release a bunch of wordsmithed blather.



"WE USED TO HUNT GAME TO
MANAGE, NOW WE MANAGE TO
HUNT"
Finn 2/14/16
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-16
>AT 02:51?PM (MST)
>
>Robi,
>You keep getting me confused with
>the actual SFW. I
>am arrogant at times not
>doubt about it. I
>think that comes off due
>to the fact that I
>honestly don't care if the
>internet gallery has respect for
>me. Those that know me
>well have plenty and it
>is reciprocated. I'm however
>not defensive. I just
>tell you what I think.
>
>
>"Whenever(one word) something good is happening
>evil always shows himself"
>Now that does sound like
>perfect crusade talk. I
>mean original crusade banter!!! That's
>good stuff there!

So you are good to find one of my spelling errors, but yet you cannot find the lies that Hawkeye is telling? Interesting!

And yet you have not correct %100 of any of Tris errors?

But let's get to the important things. What were you saying about Hawkeyes lies?
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I'm also still waiting from 73 and Birdy to answer a question. When or where was the info posted for the elk meeting in southern utah? As mentioned earlier, I love elk and woud have loved to attend. But I didn't see the info posted anywhere.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

I think masses of hunters should attend those RACs in April. What's the day and time for northern Utah meeting? $hit, I'll take the day off work to join the fun! Better yet, I'll attend multiple meetings if possible. Let's rally the troops.




Theodore Roosevelt's guidance concerning
conservation...
"The movement for the conservation of wildlife,
and the conservation of all our natural resources,
are essentially democratic in spirit,purpose and
method."

"We do not intend that our natural resources shall
be exploited by the few against the interests of the
majority. Our aim is to preserve our natural
resources for the public as a whole, for the
average man and the average woman who make
up the body of the American people."

"It is in our power...to preserve game..and to give
reasonable opportunities for the exercise of the
skill of the hunter,whether he is or is not a man of
means."
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Good night hawk. Dream up some more twisting of the truth. Sorry sfw turned you down for the position you wanted. Coarse with the money you make from rmef you will do ok.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

If Birdman is indeed on the central RAC, it is an absolute embarrassment to the state of Utah, the DWR and sportsmen. This type of engagement and behavior by a member of the RAC should not be tolerated. This was the best applicant at the time? Man, must've been some real winners coming across Fairchild's desk............
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Top. You are the king of making a jackass of yourself. You pretend you know what is going on, then you join in on a conversation you know nothing about, and then try to scare sfw with threats. Truth is you know nothing, there can be nothing done since sfw has done nothing wrong. Dwr has done nothing wrong, and the Wlb has done nothing wrong. You can think what you want and talk yourself into what ever you want. Not going anywhere.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Birdman's tactics are the same that we've seen from the SFW boys for years. There is no defense to the facts so they attack the people asking legitimate questions. Standard operating procedure.

Notice he still has not identified a single mistatement in any of my responses to the DWR's FAQ's. Nor will he because there is no defense.

I admit that I have been hard on the DWR and the groups. Unlike Birdman, however, I have provided a detailed rebuttal to their story that is based on actual facts. The response from from people like Birdman is very telling.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Top. You are the king
>of making a jackass of
>yourself. You pretend you
>know what is going on,
>then you join in on
>a conversation you know nothing
>about, and then try to
>scare sfw with threats.
>Truth is you know nothing,
>there can be nothing done
>since sfw has done nothing
>wrong. Dwr has done
>nothing wrong, and the Wlb
>has done nothing wrong.
>You can think what you
>want and talk yourself into
>what ever you want.
>Not going anywhere.

Since you're so sure that the DWR, WB, and SFW have done nothing wrong and that Hawkeye's and Top's (and other's) efforts are not going anywhere, why are you so worked up? It ain't your money or time they're wasting! Relax! You can tell them, "I told you so" later on.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

>Shotgun. Never said sfw restored
>pheasants. Only said we
>were putting birds for people
>to hunt. Planting hens
>also. But the you
>put out that sfw is
>restored pheasant hunting. Prime
>example how rumors work.
>Great job.
> Hawk manages to twist
>things around so that they
>no longer mean the same.
> But the that's a
>lawyer for you. Twist
>the truth to make the
>jury question the truth.
>How much does rmef pay
>you to do that.
>With the truth coming out
>today that sfw turned you
>down for a position we
>understand your motive to stop
>sfw. With them out
>of the way you can
>start your group and couple
>up with rmef. Double
>pay.



Birdman, you're right you didn't say SFW restored pheasant hunting in Utah Muley73 did. My bad. I'd like to hear Muley73s thoughts on how pheasant hunting in Utah has been restored.

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/23099.html#26


Still waiting for you to back up your and BGFs lie/scare tactic, how Sage Grouse listing "Can stop all hunting".

You still haven't given ONE example where Hawkeye has not been factual or twisted the truth. Come on Birdman put up or shut up, give one example or resign from your position on the RAC. You're an embarrassment.




No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura
chancho sucio.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

This is the junk people are getting tired of seeing from you Hawkeye. You play this lawyer speak junk and then say you haven't made any accusations. No you just word questions as if something bad has happened and then let all your mindless jonesenites make the accusations for you.

You make ask questions and then somehow call questions "facts", a word neither you or Topgun know anything about.

I have identified a load of horse crap you have stated on this thread. You demonize perfectly honest dealings with wild statements. Then you make innuendos about people's responses or not responding as being "very telling".

The truth is you don't have any facts. YOU have an agenda. You make assumptions.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Don't feed the Troll!
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-16 AT 08:01AM (MST)[p]Robiland asked in post #219--Who put on the meeting? Or who was in charge? And this is an honest question. I love elk and am curious on who called the meeting? I wish I could have been there. I did not know about it or hear about it until after.

I believe the meeting referred to was the Southern RAC meeting held last April. According to my understanding of the meeting, there was a large contingent of cattlemens groups that pushed hard to increase the number of elk permits for that area. They believed that the number of elk on the landscape were creating a situation that their grazing allotment numbers with the Feds were being reduced because the forage wasn't there. They believed that was being caused by "high" elk numbers.
I know of no other meeting that was held in regards to this. The Southern RAC eventually voted to increase the elk tags because of the public/cattlemens sentiment that was expressed at the meeting.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

FAQ #12 ? Q12: When was the RFP open for organizations to submit proposals?
State Purchasing issued the RFP on Oct. 8, 2015. It remained open until Nov. 24, 2015. This was after the application period of Aug. 1?Sept. 1 outlined in DWR?s administrative rule for the expo permits contract. Although the release of the RFP through State Purchasing was intended to coincide with that timeframe, there were unexpected delays in issuing it. (These delays were due to personnel changes and the complexity of the issue.)

The DWR stated during the public Utah Wildlife Board meeting on Aug. 27, 2015 (see timestamp 05:22:24) ? before any proposals were submitted ? that DWR personnel were in the process of working with State Purchasing to issue the RFP. The DWR regretted the delayed release of the RFP, but felt it was important to get the process right.

RESPONSE:

In the first paragraph of FAQ #12, the DWR admits that the RFP was issued ?after the application period of Aug. 1?Sept. 1 outlined in DWR?s administrative rule for the expo permits contract. Although the release of the RFP through State Purchasing was intended to coincide with that timeframe, there were unexpected delays in issuing it.? The DWR?s formal RFP was not issued until over two months after the application period set forth in R657-55-4(3) opened. See http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-055.htm. The DWR attributes those delays to ?personnel changes and the complexity of the issue.? However, in FAQ #11 the DWR admits that they did not begin ?formally working with State Purchasing to develop the RFP document? until May 2015. That is seven months after the DWR claims to have first discussed the change to the formal RFP during a private meeting with conservation groups in October 2014. If this change was so significant and complex then why didn't the DWR start working on it immediately? Why wait seven months? In addition, I served a GRAMA request on the State Division of Purchasing and asking for ?any correspondence, emails, notes and/or other written communications between the Division [of Purchasing] and the DWR . . . relating to the Expo RFP.? The earliest email or written communication that the Division of Purchasing produced in response to that GRAMA request was dated July 1, 2015. Therefore, even if the DWR starting working with the Division of Purchasing in May 2015, it does not appear that there was any significant written communications between the groups until July 2015.

It is also curious that the DWR expresses concern with the fact that the RFP was not issued until well after the application period set forth in its administrative rule. While that may be a concern to me and many other sportsmen, the fact is the DWR violated the terms of its administrative rule in a number of ways by moving to the formal RFP without amending its rule. So why worry about the application time period? Let me give you a few examples:

1. Under R657-55-4(3) the application period ran from ?August 1 and September 1 of the year preceding the expiration of each wildlife exposition term.? In contrast, under the RFP, the DWR unilaterally changed the application period to October 8, 2015 to November 25, 2015.
2. R657-55-4(4) spells out the information that must be included in an application for the Expo Tag. The 38-page RFP document issued by the DWR changed and expanded those criteria. See Section 2.2 and 2.3 of RFP - https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwhBsR2dj01GZXpSQ3R3MS1MTnM.
3. R657-55-4(6) and (7) states that the Wildlife Board (with a recommendation from the DWR) would determine which group would receive the contract. Under the RFP a selection committee was created and tasked with reviewing the applications and their recommendation was then presented to the Wildlife Board.
4. R657-55-4(7) set forth the criteria that should be considered with by the Wildlife Board. In contrast, the RFP set forth a different set of criteria and a scoring formula for weighing those criteria. See Attachment C to RFP.

Thus, by moving to a formal RFP, the DWR was acting in a manner that was inconsistent with the application process set forth in R657-55-4. Now, I want to be clear that I have no objection with the DWR moving to a formal RFP process. However, if that is what the DWR wanted to do then they should have done it in a timely, transparent and fair manner. And most importantly, they should have amended their rule to allow them to use a formal RFP. All the DWR would have needed to do was modify the procedure in R657-55-4 to state that they would be issuing a formal RFP through the Division of Purchasing and then take those proposed amendments to the RAC meetings in December 2014 and the Wildlife Board Meeting in January 2015 where the rule amendment was discussed. However, that did not occur.

In an effort to cover their tails, the DWR has searched the meeting minutes for any reference or mention of the word ?RFP? and they point to a statement during the August 27, 2015 meeting that ?DWR personnel were in the process of working with State Purchasing to issue the RFP?. Remember, the DWR?s proposed rule amendments were presented at the December 2014 RAC meetings and January 2015 Wildlife Board meeting. Now, the DWR is justifying the move to a formal RFP by stating that they mentioned the change during the August meeting? Tune in and listen to the recording referenced by the DWR. What was happening there is Kenny Johnson was providing a report to the Wildlife Board on the annual Expo Permit ?Audit.? See Agenda and Packet for 8/27/2015 Board Meeting - http://wildlife.utah.gov/public_meetings/board/2015-08_board_agenda.pdf . The public has absolutely no notice that the DWR was going to announce a major change to the Expo Tag Program. No announcement of a change to the Expo Tag program was on the agenda for that meeting. Nor was any announcement of a change to the rules governing the Expo Tags on the agenda. None of this was taken to the RACs for public input. As a result, the public was denied any opportunity to comment on this significant change and the conservation groups who did not have close relationships with the DWR and relied upon the process set forth in the DWR?s own administrative rule were left in the dark.

In summary, the DWR?s move to a formal RFP was poorly communicated, untimely and inconsistent with their own administrative rule. Take a minute and read through R657-55-4 as it exists today on the state?s website? See http://www.rules.utah.gov/publicat/code/r657/r657-055.htm#T4. It still says nothing about a formal RFP.

Tune in tomorrow. I believe that FAQ #13 is one of the most misleading statements in the DWR?s document. I am looking forward responding to that one.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Richard-

I think they are referring to the elk meeting that occurred in the last week or two that M73 mentioned in Post #218. I also heard some of the SFW leadership reference a similar meeting. Robiland was just wondering what type of meeting was it? When and where did it occur? Was is a public meeting? Was notice posted somewhere? Etc. I know this issue has been simmering for a while but it sounds like there was another meeting just recently.

Perhaps M73 can share some details.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-16 AT 08:16AM (MST)[p]In regards to "Sage Grouse listing "Can stop all hunting". I seriously doubt it could stop all hunting but it is true that "if" they are listed as an endangered species, hunting activities in the "recovery areas" could be seriously curtailed or stopped by the Feds. Not only hunting could be curtailed but also most human activity that could disrupt sagebrush regrowth and/or nesting activity could be stopped. Predator control in those areas, which include ravens and magpies (they eat the eggs) has been ramped up. So far the DWR has done a great job in avoiding the Federal listing. They have engaged in a number of projects to help get the grouse population growing again. The grouse are actually beginning to show an increase, hopefully it continues.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

There have been several meetings on elk. Rmef has a person on the committee. Those on the committee are aware but for some reason rmef rep does not feel it important to attend. You will have to ask them why. I am guessing it is the same representative who voted to remove elk from the Monroe unit.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-16 AT 08:23AM (MST)[p]Hawk-Thanks for the clarification.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

shotgunjim,
Yes I will answer your pheasant question. Utah had very very very little public pheasant hunting at all a few years ago. 15 years ago you could still hunt areas if you did your homework and had access and put in a ton of work with good dogs. That might produce a couple birds. Most of the guys I ran with had stopped chasing and worse they had stopped taking their kids. With the SFW working with DWR and raising and releasing thousands of birds across the state I have seen a jump in participation and success. Multiple areas have opened up for public hunters and there are birds there to shoot. Greatly increased from just a few years ago. Pheasant hunting was all but gone in Sevier County 10 years ago. Head down to that county during the pheasant hunt now and tell me how many trucks are parked in those areas. How many guys have picked up new pups, how many grinning 12 year olds posing with a roosters. Sevier is not the only area, take a look across the state and you see more people successfully banging roosters during Nov. The DWR for years said it was a waste and would not work, SFW said we want to try and see how it goes. Well the feedback has been good and pheasants are being hunted and actually harvested in areas that it had disappeared years ago. Are there haters, of course. But if we react to all haters we would sit around and cry and never get anything accomplished. I know I will get hammered for my views, because they are pro SFW. Again I can not stress enough that I don't care. Why....because getting pics all though Nov of my nephews huge smiles holding up roosters with their two new pups makes me happy. As much as it makes me happy to spend a Saturday afternoon hunt with two boys and my pups. Shotgunjim, I'll ask you what have you done to give these Utah kids opportunity to hunt roosters? Its sure easy to bash and hate on the internet. Personally I'll say thank you to the SFW and to the DWR that gave this a chance and created and restored opportunity to successfully hunt pheasants in Utah.

6667img2492.jpg


68fullsizerender2.jpg


4233img2949.jpg


7761img2967.jpg
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Classy post Birdman. Rather than worrying about why someone from another conservation group did not make it a meeting, you should probably worry about your own group's problems, including but not limited to the following:

1. The lack and accountability for the Expo Tag funds.
2. The Dixie Chapter of SFW supporting the public land transfer.
3. Don Peay lobbying against fishermen and public stream access.

It is always good to have our own house in order before we point fingers at others.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawk, As for the transparency SFW has broken no rules of the contracts. As a contract lawyer you should know that. What ever was said, the contract and laws have been followed.
What the Dixie chapter does is the Dixie chapter and not SFW in general.
As for stream access, the current stand with SFW is neutral. Obviously there are still issues with stream access as to the stay and those on both sides feel nothing will be decided at least before 2018. Even stream access people are looking at it in a different way. No matter what happens, not all streams will be open to the public if stream access wins.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,
Classy? Are you serious? You can sure dish it out but its classy when Bird makes a statement like that.

RMEF did vote to remove the elk off of the Monroe. They are not willing to go in and battle for more elk in Utah. They have shown this time and time again. They are not fighting the same fight as SFW. They are more content to sit neutral. I prefer my groups to have teeth and actually fight for sportsman and our wildlife.

You have no trouble marching your accusations and assumptions out onto the field of battle but you cry when Bird does. Be a big boy and and play the game Hawkeye.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Here is my complaint. Statements on here, some true, some false continue. When someone makes a false statement people run with it cause it sounds good. Take for instance shotgun stating the expo went from three days to four days and that is why numbers jumped. Been four days since the start. What about the person who put the picture of Bair with his dall sheep supposedly given on artic red for him on the board. Never happened. Blurs hunt was in Alaska and he bought it himself and it took him two years to have success. He wasn't Evan on.the board at the time but then top decided it was true so he made comments. Fact is lots of false statements made and instead of research as to the truth, mm people run with it.
Hawkeye being a lawyer twists things to make it look the way he wants. That's his right, but not ethical. Top being the big investigator jumps at false statements and runs with it as do others. If this was a conversation SFW would be involved but since it is a slam contest they stay out. Think about it.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

M73-

Dish it out all you want. I just found it entertaining that when folks were asking about the date, time, location of the meeting that you referenced in a prior post, Birdman was worried about pointing out the an RMEF did not make it to the meeting. If that is what you guy are focused on - post away.

By the way, how was Don Peay's position on public stream access (see quote regarding "greed flyfisherman") considered "fighting for sportsmen"?

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Birdman,

Are you a member of the central RAC? I think that could quickly dispel that rumor if you can answer that question.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawkeye,
Yes I am focused on the guys in the real arena making the real difference for our hunting future. I have posted that many many times.

Stream access, here we go again. I have said to you personally and on this open forum that I do not agree with Don's or SFW's stance on this issue. I do not understand it as well as some and I have never claimed I have. But from what I understand I have different views than Don on this issue. However I look at the big picture and don't get hung up on something that goes against one of my personal desires. That's one of the major differences in you and me Jason. I am focused on the big picture, not just my personal agenda. Its why I sleep well at night and don't live my life angry and feeling wronged. I've been literally raised in this game. It's why I have thick skin and I don't get butt hurt. I can assure you that I've lost on many more occasions than I've won. But I keep pushing because wildlife, hunting and fishing are my passion. Our views differ on how to accomplish that so we battle. Your views are focused on toppling or discrediting an organization you're are upset with, mine are for the betterment of our wildlife and the very best available route to accomplish that.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Ken-

You seem to be calming down. That is good. I have worked for several years to dig in and understand the history and the facts of what has happened and is happening with Expo Tag. You may disagree with my opinions but you have not been able to dispute the facts that I have posted.

I agree and I have ackowledged before that some folks on both sides of this issue post some crazy statements and allegations. I personally try my best to avoid doing this. When that happens, feel free to correct them. As I have explained to you previously, you and others at SFW are much better suited to address issues like Artic Red River Outfitters, John's Dall Sheep, etc., than me. I have no personal knowledge of those matters.

If I have posted something as a fact and it is "false or unethical" as you say, tell me and I will correct it or retract it. I have made that offer before and so far you have not identified any false statement that I have posted. The offer remains open. On the other hand, you have lowered yourself to Tristate's tactics and accused me of being turned down from some position of power within SFW and raking in money from RMEF. Those accusations are laughable. We both know it and so does everyone on these forums (except Tristate but that is okay).

I am not calling for you to resign from the Central RAC and frankly I wish you success in that position. But you should probably take a deep breath and focus on the issues rather than making everything personal. It does not look good. But at the end of the day, I have thick skin and I am used to people throwing stones for trying to fix a problem. So do what you please.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Hawk, yes I am on the central rac. Now if you want to push that not a problem. My comment to those who don't like it, why didn't they apply for the rac. Very few did. Three people were added to the rac when I was. One from rmef and one from Utah bowman assoc. One the issues I have voted on, I have stuck with the majority that have sent me emails or have attended the rac. I voted for what the majority wanted, and not what I wanted because I was instructed to do so and will continue to do so as long as I sit on the rac.
As for calming down, I wanted to give a taste to mm people what they are dishing out and will continue to do so to those that make out of line comments. Seems it was OK for them to do it but don't do it back. Do I feel you twist the truth, yes. The contract has been signed and saw and the state will adhere to it. As you hawk told me, you are assuming sfw is spending the money on other things and ask them to prove they are not. Assuming gets people in trouble and spreads gossip that is not true. That's how things get escalated. If sfw was required by law to open their checkbook they would but think about it. With all the BS running around would you trust someone to look at things. Lots trying to find a reason to shut down sfw. Is sfw doing great? Yes with sell out banquets as well as growth in the expo, people seem to be happy. As for racs and wlb, basically sfw attends all as much as possible. Why? Because they want to make sure what is going on. Do they always get their way, NO. They try to have a person on as many committees as possible to further their cause. Do other organizations do that? NO. Sfw is making an effort that no other organization is doing. The closest organization would be uba.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Ken-

I already wished you success in your RAC position. I have known that you held that position since you were appointed. I am not looking to push anything in that regard. I imagine that the comments/questions from others asking about your involvement were based upon your behavior. That is between you and them.

Your comments to me yesterday were not "twisting the truth." They were flat out lies. We both know that and so does everyone else. Only you know your motivations for making those statements. I am more than happy to discuss the issues any time with you on this forum, on the phone or in person. However, I won't bother responding to ridiculous statements like we frequently see from Tristate. You are better than that. Consider how nebo12000 posts on these forums. Rich is a RAC member and we often disagree but it is a respectful discussion.

And the offer still remains open, if you can identify a single statement from me that is false, unethical or "twisting the truth" point it out and let's discuss it. I don't think you will find one but if I made a mistake I will certainly own it.

-Hawkeye-
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Muley73,

Yes 12 year olds smiling and showing off their roosters, pen raised or not is a good thing for sure. However, grown adults packing into the few public hunting spots, fighting each other, cutting each other off, all for the chance to shot a pen raised bird is laughable to me. If that's what you consider a "restored pheasant hunt" then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Birdman, I think the confusion of the expo going from 3 days to 4 comes from it starting out going from Wednesday thru Saturday then a few years ago it changed to a Thursday thru Sunday event. I may be wrong, please correct me if I am.

Nebo, you do realize there are a lot of endangered species out there besides the Sage Grouse right? Can you name one instance where an endangered species has stopped hunting and or access?




No estas en mexico ahora, entonces escoja tu basura chancho sucio.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Shotgun,
It is what is it is. There are areas that are seeing care over of the hens as well. Is it what you are use to in Idaho. Nope not at all. It's the same reason I always have an Idaho tag in my pocket and trips planned to South Dakota and Nebraska this fall. It may not be to those standards but when it is all but gone and it is brought back its restoring, maybe not to the level it once was it where we'd all like it to be but restoring none the less.
I would much rather throw giant streams on my flyrod for giant wild bull trout but there are literally millions of people across the nation that show up at reservoirs to fish for planted fish every year. They still call that fishing.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Shotgun jim, The expo has always ran from Thursday through Sunday. That has been that way since the beginning. Shotgun1 made the statement earlier that it went from 3 days to 4 days. Again always been Thursday to Sunday.
 
RE: Debunking the DWR?s Frequently Asked Questions Re: Utah Expo Permits and Conservation Funding

Shotgunjim, what else can be done to restore pheasant hunting. SFW and DWR are both doing the best they can. If there is a better way speak up. I know that the birds that the dwr and SFW are putting out are coming from pens that are acres. Thus the birds are pretty wild. They have to be released on grounds open to the public to stop private hunting for land owners. I admit it is crowded to a fault but how else can it be done. I know in the Richfield area SFW and the county reached an agreement on a bounty program for predators praying on the pheasants.
 

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