Deer Population Unit 31

[bigcreekmetal]

I have hunted an approximate 4000 acre piece of private land down low in unit 31 for over 20 years. It is sagebrush hills with a few springs and has farm fields on 3 sides. Perfect deer habitat. Used to see easily over 100 deer every day, sometimes even 200. Tons of deer, lots of bucks, and big bucks to. Snowmageddon slaughtered the herd. This year out of 8 hunting trips we saw a total of 14 does, 1 spike buck, and a 3 or 4 point that my son saw in his headlights as he was driving out. This place only sees a few hunters a year.

A bordering ranch is several thousand acres and I am friends with the guy who hunts it. He and 3 of his kids are the only ones hunting that ranch. One of his kids shot a small 3x4. They saw another 2 point they couldnt get. They saw just a handful of does and that was it. So between the two neighboring places that is over 7000 acres and which gets hardly any hunting pressure and that is prime deer habitat we have seen a combined total of 4 bucks and around 20 does over 8 days of hunting for us and at least a few outings for my friend and his kids on their neighboring ranch.

Now I also hunt for elk up higher in unit 31 on a ranch which gets very little hunting pressure. Elk numbers are good, but in all the time I hunted elk I saw less than 10 deer. Tons of country was covered and glassed both while hunting elk up higher, and hunting deer down lower so if they were in there where I am hunting I would have seen them.

I talked to a relative who talked to a fish and game guy and the fish and game guy told him the deer population has exploded in unit 31 this year. Umm... not sure where because all the country Ive seen and that other people has been across in unit 31 that I have spoken with has the same story.. no deer to speak of. So is anyone else who gets out in unit 31 seeing deer? Not asking for any creek names just wondering if anyone is seeing much in other parts of the unit? Maybe the approximate 20,000 acres I hunt is just the one part of unit 31 that doesnt have any deer maybe??

 

[BennyBeaver]

I was kind of wondering the same thing. I have the late bull tag for 31 this year and have made a few scouting trips over the summer and fall and the deer sightings have been few and far between.

Maybe the colder weather will make them appear? I have been mainly in the NW corner of unit. I am going elk hunting next week
and am curious if any deer will be moving around since the general season is over. There was a lot of atv traffic when I was there last week.

 

[Weiserbucks]

@bigcreekmetal you're seeing the same as everyone else. I hunt 31 for deer, elk and bear almost every year and the deer herd is very poor. Snomaggeddon smashed them, F&G did nothing and hunters killed most of what was left.

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

I have hunted 31 since 1978 for elk archery & deer rifle, I used to hunt the same ranch BCM hunts elk on, as well as other neighboring ranches. It was a normal day to see 100 + deer & elk a day any where across this unit & some really good bucks & bulls. Idaho FISH & NO GAME do not have a clue about populations in ANY of the units across the state !!! They do not ask the hunters in the field that are hunting deer & elk what they have been seeing all they ever ask for is license & tags !! The 16-17 winter & a few late snows since then have all but Wiped out the deer in 31. F&NG did not close this unit or reduce the general season length kept the same # of late buck tags , and still the deer have NOT rebounded !!! DAMN wonder why ??? I saw 1 3x3 buck on private & maybe 25 does & fawns total all bow season, this was in over 40 miles hiked !! I do NOT hunt near the road most of the country I hunt is at least 3/4 of mile from any roads or trails. I spoke with a few other hunters I encountered during archery 1 guy said he saw a little 4x4 driving up Keithly creek road, all the others a few does & fawns. F&NG have also ruined this unit for elk !! they are harvesting way too many cows but F&NG claim this unit is at or above their Quotas ???

 

[JPickett]

you guys must be looking in the wrong spots. and if its down low this fall id say thats exactly what it was. lot of bucks in there this year. a couple pretty big ones. 2 i know got shot, one may have made it. and about 500 head of elk holed up on a piece of property about no one can get on. why you didn't see them in the valley this month. friend did get permission in there and shot a 6x6

all that being said, i know a pretty big land owner as well and i just don't bother in 31. place is a zoo

 

[BrianID]

I didn’t hunt 31 and don’t hunt that part of the state. One thing I’ve noticed is that after a bad winter is that in some areas the winter kill devastates the deer in certain areas. Other areas that are only 20 or 50 miles away may have done much better.

From what I’ve seen in other units is that the winter kill was really bad in many areas. Maybe I’ll see something in November that gives me a little hope but I don’t think I’m going to be very optimistic about deer hunting in Idaho for a few years. Unless you are going to hunt with family and friends or have no other options to hunt, I don’t know why anyone would bother to put much effort in hunting mule deer in most parts of Idaho next fall.

 

[bigcreekmetal]

you guys must be looking in the wrong spots. and if its down low this fall id say thats exactly what it was. lot of bucks in there this year. a couple pretty big ones. 2 i know got shot, one may have made it. and about 500 head of elk holed up on a piece of property about no one can get on. why you didn't see them in the valley this month. friend did get permission in there and shot a 6x6

all that being said, i know a pretty big land owner as well and i just don't bother in 31. place is a zoo

Well like I said the elk numbers are good, actually great, but it is the deer I dont see hardly any of. I got a 5x6 bull, daughter got a bear, but deer numbers are awful on the southern end of the unit. I dont cover the rest of the unit though so maybe elsewhere its better but not from the people I have spoken to. That still begs the question though as to why the fish and game officer my friend spoke to said the deer herd in 31 had exploded this year. I would really like to talk to a fish and game officer to ask about this subject.

 

[Weiserbucks]

but deer numbers are awful on the southern end of the unit.

Agree 100%, I've got permission on a good size chunk of private on Jenkins creek for depredation cow elk and I haven't seen a single buck in there the last few years.

 

[BrianID]

Well like I said the elk numbers are good, actually great, but it is the deer I dont see hardly any of. I got a 5x6 bull, daughter got a bear, but deer numbers are awful on the southern end of the unit. I dont cover the rest of the unit though so maybe elsewhere its better but not from the people I have spoken to. That still begs the question though as to why the fish and game officer my friend spoke to said the deer herd in 31 had exploded this year. I would really like to talk to a fish and game officer to ask about this subject.

Increased numbers of elk are one of the big reasons there are less deer than there were 60 years ago. One option we have as hunters is to decide to prioritize mule deer over elk.

 

[Weiserbucks]

Increased numbers of elk are one of the big reasons there are less deer than there were 60 years ago. One option we have as hunters is to decide to prioritize mule deer over elk.

You can prioritize whatever you want for yourself, Idaho Farm and Game is going to issue tags and seasons as they please, including controlled doe tags in 31 for years and letting kids shoot the piss out of the does that managed to survive Snomaggeddon.

 

[JPickett]

You can prioritize whatever you want for yourself, Idaho Farm and Game is going to issue tags and seasons as they please, including controlled doe tags in 31 for years and letting kids shoot the piss out of the does that managed to survive Snomaggeddon.

Yup. Ive always wondered what the difference is between a doe shot by a 12 year old or a 40 year old is from a management perspective?

There must be one cuz even guys that ***** about deer numbers are always “ let the kids shoot the does” …. Im sure it’s more sound “science “ i don’t understand

 

[bigcreekmetal]

Increased numbers of elk are one of the big reasons there are less deer than there were 60 years ago. One option we have as hunters is to decide to prioritize mule deer over elk.

Ok if I had to choose between the two I would choose elk so guess I shouldnt complain right? I do understand how more elk can equal less deer in certain areas, but not the lower country I am talking about that used to always have big deer numbers because the elk tend to stay up higher for the most part. Until the snow pushes them down it is possible to see some elk every great once in awhile down low where I deer hunt but not often and not in any great numbers at all.

 

[BrianID]

Ok if I had to choose between the two I would choose elk so guess I shouldnt complain right? I do understand how more elk can equal less deer in certain areas, but not the lower country I am talking about that used to always have big deer numbers because the elk tend to stay up higher for the most part. Until the snow pushes them down it is possible to see some elk every great once in awhile down low where I deer hunt but not often and not in any great numbers at all.

I think elk competing on the winter range with deer can be a much larger problem than summer/fall. I've heard that in certain areas the range can support 3 deer or one elk. I don't think that would always be the case. Personally I would be willing to sacrifice elk to improve mule deer numbers.

 

[BrianID]

You can prioritize whatever you want for yourself, Idaho Farm and Game is going to issue tags and seasons as they please, including controlled doe tags in 31 for years and letting kids shoot the piss out of the does that managed to survive Snomaggeddon.

I can't believe how many doe and either sex tags are issued for the units around Boise. Unit 39-1 for example has 2000 either sex tags per year. Just in 39 and 43 last year there were over 1300 antlerless killed last year between controlled hunts and general season. That is a lot of does being killed in a single year for just 2 units. That doesn't even include all the does that migrate down to 45 or other units in the area and also get killed. I would think that after a bad winter the doe hunting would be restricted.

 

[Angry Chair]

I have hunted an approximate 4000 acre piece of private land down low in unit 31 for over 20 years. It is sagebrush hills with a few springs and has farm fields on 3 sides. Perfect deer habitat. Used to see easily over 100 deer every day, sometimes even 200. Tons of deer, lots of bucks, and big bucks to. Snowmageddon slaughtered the herd. This year out of 8 hunting trips we saw a total of 14 does, 1 spike buck, and a 3 or 4 point that my son saw in his headlights as he was driving out. This place only sees a few hunters a year.

Did you see a significant change in deer numbers between the '16 & '17 seasons?

 

[Weiserbucks]

Did you see a significant change in deer numbers between the '16 & '17 seasons?

Everyone did.

 

[Angry Chair]

Everyone did.

Of course, but how did they compare to this season? I saw far more deer in '22 than I did in '17.

 

[bigcreekmetal]

Did you see a significant change in deer numbers between the '16 & '17 seasons?

Yes after snowmageddon it was crazy bad for population. This year I saw double the deer than I did post snowmageddon.. After snowmageddon I remember seeing 5 to 8 deer or so. This whole season I saw 15 total so things are looking up I guess! But seriously its been 5 or 6 years since that bad winter, I would have thought the deer would have come back better than they have. These numbers Im talking about are not just this year. Every year since snowmageddon Ive seen similar deer numbers.

 

[Angry Chair]

Yes after snowmageddon it was crazy bad for population. This year I saw double the deer than I did post snowmageddon.. After snowmageddon I remember seeing 5 to 8 deer or so. This whole season I saw 15 total so things are looking up I guess! But seriously its been 5 or 6 years since that bad winter, I would have thought the deer would have come back better than they have. These numbers Im talking about are not just this year. Every year since snowmageddon Ive seen similar deer numbers.

I doubt there will be much progress until IDFG goes controlled or capped on resident tags.

 

[NPHunter]

From what I've seen in SW/Central ID and NE Oregon deer numbers have been on the uptick since 2018 and this year is no exception. We did not get the bad winter like Eastern ID and deer did fine on the winter range there was a ton of feed this summer and fawn recruitment was great.

I've seen more bucks this year than many years in the past, I didn't specifically hunt 31 but spent some time watching deer in there and saw a pile in the neighboring unit as well as a couple of units across the river.

Deer activity was weird this year with a very odd feed year, the feed up high stayed way longer and with the wet warm fall there was a ton of awesome green up in the higher elevation stuff which keeps deer distributed through the landscape much better than hot dry years.

Deer numbers haven't totally rebounded since 2017 but they are getting closer and there are mature bucks on the landscape again with pretty decent numbers. I haven't seen as many mature bucks across the region since 2015, it is a great year to have a deer tag IMO.

 

[bigcreekmetal]

So today I actually had a good conversation with a fish and game officer from McCall who covers unit 31 area. We talked about how much deer can travel for one thing. He said they had quite a few deer they radio collared north of Emmett and up into Indian Valley and alot of those deer went as far as the Stanley area to summer which surprised me.

Another thing he said was in unit 32 during the snowmageddon winter they had 49 out of 50 radio collared fawns die that winter.

He also had heard the same thing about the deer population in unit 31 being terrible from alot of different folks. And he said they were aware of it as well but said they were not sure as to why the population wasnt better since it has been 5 years since snowmageddon. I know this last sentence will get some folks fired up.

He didnt mention any potential changes in tags or seasons for that area. He did mention there was talk of potentially making certain hard to draw trophy units once in a lifetime draws and Im talking for deer and elk. I found that interesting as I hadnt heard of that yet.

 

[Angry Chair]

He didnt mention any potential changes in tags or seasons for that area. He did mention there was talk of potentially making certain hard to draw trophy units once in a lifetime draws and Im talking for deer and elk. I found that interesting as I hadnt heard of that yet.

Definitely needs to happen. A 2 or 3 year species application wait period on all antlered controlled hunts would also be a good idea.

 

[JPickett]

He did mention there was talk of potentially making certain hard to draw trophy units once in a lifetime draws and Im talking for deer and elk.

That is a fantastic idea. Just gotta make sure it applies to the land owner pool as well

 

[Blindnonresident]

Really why is that?
Perhaps landowners should only feed the public's animals one year then.

 

[Weiserbucks]

Really why is that?
Perhaps landowners should only feed the public's animals one year then.

Wouldn't bother me if they never fed another wild animal ever again. Put up a fence and cut off the welfare and eliminate landowner tags forever.

 

[JPickett]

Really why is that?
Perhaps landowners should only feed the public's animals one year then.

yeah my bad. if you happen to own land where there's bighorn sheep you should shoot one every year cuz you have a house there

what part of "once in a life time" is super confusing for you?

 

[dgfavor]

yeah my bad. if you happen to own land where there's bighorn sheep you should shoot one every year cuz you have a house there

what part of "once in a life time" is super confusing for you?

Does anyone here know how the landowner program works in Idaho?

 

[Weiserbucks]

Many large landowners get tags in trophy units every single year that the general public has less than 2% odds of drawing. Then they either sell them, kill big critters or both all while Joe public tag applicant will probably never draw the tag in their lifetime.

After selling a couple of the tags for 5 figures each and killing a big buck/bull with their other landowner tags, the landowner then files a claim for crop damage and F&G forks out $$$ to compensate them, sometimes to the tune $1,000,000+ for a single claim.

 

[dgfavor]

Many large landowners get tags in trophy units every single year that the general public has less than 2% odds of drawing. Then they either sell them, kill big critters or both all while Joe public tag applicant will probably never draw the tag in their lifetime.

After selling a couple of the tags for 5 figures each and killing a big buck/bull with their other landowner tags, the landowner then files a claim for crop damage and F&G forks out $$$ to compensate them, sometimes to the tune $1,000,000+ for a single claim.

Geez...that doesn't sound right. Got proof of those things happening? Like for sheep even as mentioned above?

 

[Weiserbucks]

Negative, I have zero proof but I know a couple landowners that get deer and elk tags nearly every year.

Never heard of any landowner getting a sheep tag other than natives who think they can hunt sheep whenever and wherever they want.

 

[dgfavor]

Negative, I have zero proof but I know a couple landowners that get deer and elk tags nearly every year.

Never heard of any landowner getting a sheep tag other than natives who think they can hunt sheep whenever and wherever they want.

I'm kinda goofin' with ya' because I know exactly how the Landowner Appreciation Program (LAP) and the corresponding draws work. Since this thread is Unit 31 (I'm too lazy to look up where Unit 31 actually is) I can tell you that for 2023 in Unit 31 there were 39 total landowner tags available, 3 for deer, 38 for elk, 0 bear, 0 pronghorns:
Hunt 1316 - 3 tags, antlered deer only, Oct. 10-Nov. 24
Hunt 2308 - 8 tags, antlered elk only, Oct. 15-Nov. 8
Hunt 2370 - 13 tags, antlerless elk only, Oct. 15-Oct. 31
Hunt 2371 - 10 tags, antlerless elk only, Nov. 1 - Nov. 14
Hunt 2406 - 5 tags, either sex elk, Oct. 1-Oct. 14

All of these hunts correspond with exactly the same hunt/weapon/rules/etc. as the hunt offered in the general controlled tag draw and tag winners can hunt the whole unit - not just their property. For instance Hunt 1316 corresponds to Hunt 1022 in the general controlled draw - 30 tags offered in the general. The landowner allotment is typically around 10% the number offered in the corresponding general hunt. Some hunts are allocated slightly more, some hunts are not offered at all to the landowner pool.
Only one LAP tag per species may be issued for any eligible property between 320 and 4999 acres. Landowners with 5000+ acres are eligible for one additional tag but all owners with 640+ acres receive a chance at drawing one LAP tag before a 2nd may be awarded to owners of 5000+.

Idaho state law expressly prohibits the selling or marketing of LAP tags...so if you know of a landowner(s) selling or marketing their LAP tags you'd be obliged to let authorities know just as you would any other case of wildlife violation.

As an eligible landowner in my unit, I am eligible to put in for one deer (one controlled hunt available 4 tags) and one elk (two controlled hunts available about 30 tags I think) in the landowner pool. I have been putting in long enough I can't remember how long I've been putting in - a long time. In the period of time I have been putting in for the those hunts I have drawn in the general controlled hunt one of the coveted mule deer trophy tags (a hunt not offered in the landowner pool) and once drawn the antlered elk tag with 250 of my closest friends. So, it's not a gimme - any landowner that is drawing a tag every year is incredibly lucky beyond the odds or owns an absolute ridiculous amount of property to significantly skew the odds in their favor in their unit. I did this year finally draw both elk and deer. I designated the elk tag to a buddy and my deer tag I drew gave me an extra 7 days to hunt beyond the general.

Longstory short - I don't personally think the LAP is a root problem in whatever ailments are ongoing in the deer/elk herds. To even be in the in LAP pool one's property must be "used by, and provide significant habitat values for deer, elk, pronghorn, and/or black bear". There are no LAP tags for sheep, goats, or moose...so any landowner shooting a sheep every year because they have a house there is gonna be in some trouble...

Personally, if the rules were actually that a landowner can have a tag for the species on their property every year but cannot hunt anywhere other than their property, I would lock that in right now.

 

[Weiserbucks]

What about depredation tags? I have one in my pocket right now valid for Aug 1-Dec 31 2023 any legal weapon.

As far as my obligation to report wildlife violations? I'm not obligated to report landowners who charge $15k for access and know exactly how to put their tag on a dead animal. F&G is aware of the practice and has said that it's not a priority of theirs to investigate. Landowners win again!

 

[bigcreekmetal]

Wouldn't bother me if they never fed another wild animal ever again. Put up a fence and cut off the welfare and eliminate landowner tags forever.

Trust me it wouldnt bother some of the landowners I know either! SOME of them hate the elk. They are always fixing fence the elk tear up and see them as competing against their cows for forage. Ive not heard any cross words from landowners about deer, all seems to be directed at the elk.

 

[bigcreekmetal]

Geez...that doesn't sound right. Got proof of those things happening? Like for sheep even as mentioned above?

A member of my family has over 12,000 deeded acres in unit 31 and consistently puts in for a landowner bull tag every year and has literally not ever once drawn a tag. Another landowner in 31 who has around 3500 acres has drawn a bull tag seriously multiple years in a row or every other year at worst. I dont think once in a lifetime tags like moose and sheep are put in a landowner pool but I could be wrong?

 

[bigcreekmetal]

I'm kinda goofin' with ya' because I know exactly how the Landowner Appreciation Program (LAP) and the corresponding draws work. Since this thread is Unit 31 (I'm too lazy to look up where Unit 31 actually is) I can tell you that for 2023 in Unit 31 there were 39 total landowner tags available, 3 for deer, 38 for elk, 0 bear, 0 pronghorns:
Hunt 1316 - 3 tags, antlered deer only, Oct. 10-Nov. 24
Hunt 2308 - 8 tags, antlered elk only, Oct. 15-Nov. 8
Hunt 2370 - 13 tags, antlerless elk only, Oct. 15-Oct. 31
Hunt 2371 - 10 tags, antlerless elk only, Nov. 1 - Nov. 14
Hunt 2406 - 5 tags, either sex elk, Oct. 1-Oct. 14

All of these hunts correspond with exactly the same hunt/weapon/rules/etc. as the hunt offered in the general controlled tag draw and tag winners can hunt the whole unit - not just their property. For instance Hunt 1316 corresponds to Hunt 1022 in the general controlled draw - 30 tags offered in the general. The landowner allotment is typically around 10% the number offered in the corresponding general hunt. Some hunts are allocated slightly more, some hunts are not offered at all to the landowner pool.
Only one LAP tag per species may be issued for any eligible property between 320 and 4999 acres. Landowners with 5000+ acres are eligible for one additional tag but all owners with 640+ acres receive a chance at drawing one LAP tag before a 2nd may be awarded to owners of 5000+.

Idaho state law expressly prohibits the selling or marketing of LAP tags...so if you know of a landowner(s) selling or marketing their LAP tags you'd be obliged to let authorities know just as you would any other case of wildlife violation.

As an eligible landowner in my unit, I am eligible to put in for one deer (one controlled hunt available 4 tags) and one elk (two controlled hunts available about 30 tags I think) in the landowner pool. I have been putting in long enough I can't remember how long I've been putting in - a long time. In the period of time I have been putting in for the those hunts I have drawn in the general controlled hunt one of the coveted mule deer trophy tags (a hunt not offered in the landowner pool) and once drawn the antlered elk tag with 250 of my closest friends. So, it's not a gimme - any landowner that is drawing a tag every year is incredibly lucky beyond the odds or owns an absolute ridiculous amount of property to significantly skew the odds in their favor in their unit. I did this year finally draw both elk and deer. I designated the elk tag to a buddy and my deer tag I drew gave me an extra 7 days to hunt beyond the general.

Longstory short - I don't personally think the LAP is a root problem in whatever ailments are ongoing in the deer/elk herds. To even be in the in LAP pool one's property must be "used by, and provide significant habitat values for deer, elk, pronghorn, and/or black bear". There are no LAP tags for sheep, goats, or moose...so any landowner shooting a sheep every year because they have a house there is gonna be in some trouble...

Personally, if the rules were actually that a landowner can have a tag for the species on their property every year but cannot hunt anywhere other than their property, I would lock that in right now.

I dont have a problem at all with the landowner pool. However I would be all for a rule stating that if they draw a tag they can only hunt said animal on their own property.

 

[Blindnonresident]

Bunch of jealous apartment dwellers.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I bet it all fits.

 

[Weiserbucks]

Bunch of jealous apartment dwellers.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I bet it all fits.

What is this supposed to mean?

 

[GSJ]

I'm kinda goofin' with ya' because I know exactly how the Landowner Appreciation Program (LAP) and the corresponding draws work. Since this thread is Unit 31 (I'm too lazy to look up where Unit 31 actually is) I can tell you that for 2023 in Unit 31 there were 39 total landowner tags available, 3 for deer, 38 for elk, 0 bear, 0 pronghorns:
Hunt 1316 - 3 tags, antlered deer only, Oct. 10-Nov. 24
Hunt 2308 - 8 tags, antlered elk only, Oct. 15-Nov. 8
Hunt 2370 - 13 tags, antlerless elk only, Oct. 15-Oct. 31
Hunt 2371 - 10 tags, antlerless elk only, Nov. 1 - Nov. 14
Hunt 2406 - 5 tags, either sex elk, Oct. 1-Oct. 14

All of these hunts correspond with exactly the same hunt/weapon/rules/etc. as the hunt offered in the general controlled tag draw and tag winners can hunt the whole unit - not just their property. For instance Hunt 1316 corresponds to Hunt 1022 in the general controlled draw - 30 tags offered in the general. The landowner allotment is typically around 10% the number offered in the corresponding general hunt. Some hunts are allocated slightly more, some hunts are not offered at all to the landowner pool.
Only one LAP tag per species may be issued for any eligible property between 320 and 4999 acres. Landowners with 5000+ acres are eligible for one additional tag but all owners with 640+ acres receive a chance at drawing one LAP tag before a 2nd may be awarded to owners of 5000+.

Idaho state law expressly prohibits the selling or marketing of LAP tags...so if you know of a landowner(s) selling or marketing their LAP tags you'd be obliged to let authorities know just as you would any other case of wildlife violation.

As an eligible landowner in my unit, I am eligible to put in for one deer (one controlled hunt available 4 tags) and one elk (two controlled hunts available about 30 tags I think) in the landowner pool. I have been putting in long enough I can't remember how long I've been putting in - a long time. In the period of time I have been putting in for the those hunts I have drawn in the general controlled hunt one of the coveted mule deer trophy tags (a hunt not offered in the landowner pool) and once drawn the antlered elk tag with 250 of my closest friends. So, it's not a gimme - any landowner that is drawing a tag every year is incredibly lucky beyond the odds or owns an absolute ridiculous amount of property to significantly skew the odds in their favor in their unit. I did this year finally draw both elk and deer. I designated the elk tag to a buddy and my deer tag I drew gave me an extra 7 days to hunt beyond the general.

Longstory short - I don't personally think the LAP is a root problem in whatever ailments are ongoing in the deer/elk herds. To even be in the in LAP pool one's property must be "used by, and provide significant habitat values for deer, elk, pronghorn, and/or black bear". There are no LAP tags for sheep, goats, or moose...so any landowner shooting a sheep every year because they have a house there is gonna be in some trouble...

Personally, if the rules were actually that a landowner can have a tag for the species on their property every year but cannot hunt anywhere other than their property, I would lock that in right now.

The more land they own, the higher their chance to draw. I understand it’s not a gimmee and odds vary by region/species, etc, but there are absolutely land owners that receive tags every year.

 

[GSJ]

Worth at least a quick once over. It’s not the gravy train many believe it to be but it is a nice perk. My opinion is these tags should not be transferable as they were never intended to be a financial windfall.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/seasons-rules-big-game-landowner-appreciation-program-2023.pdf

 

[GSJ]

Really why is that?
Perhaps landowners should only feed the public's animals one year then.

I’m cool with that so long as the public can quit feeding private livestock on public lands. I’m certain many others feel the same.

 

[dgfavor]

Worth at least a quick once over. It’s not the gravy train many believe it to be but it is a nice perk. My opinion is these tags should not be transferable as they were never intended to be a financial windfall.

https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/seasons-rules-big-game-landowner-appreciation-program-2023.pdf

There is absolutely no legal financial windfall with a LAP tag. There absolutely could be bad apples that are somehow manipulating the system to their financial gain...I personally don't know any landowner that does and what I'm hearing here sounds more like innuendo and urban legend than fact - I really doubt that F&G doesn't care about lawbreaking landowners. There is a procedure for designating a landowner tag to someone other than the registered owner/agent and it happens well before the season starts...not standing over a dead animal after a trespass fee has been paid.

I transferred my landowner bull tag to a buddy this year. I had to go to F&G and fill out/sign a designation form. He had to go to F&G, cancel his already purchased but not started yet elk tag, then buy the tag for the designated controlled hunt. All I got out of it was sweaty, tired, hypoglycemic and stumbling back to camp at 1230 in the morning...not even a piece of freakin' elk jerky yet!:

I get the angst folks have when they perceive someone else getting something they cannot get themselves re. landowner draw/tags - it sucks, I been there. My brain gets conspiratorial when the neighbors seem to draw tags every year and I've been 8 or 9 years with nothing...underhanded cheating profiteering sunzabeeches!! I think the same thing in the general controlled draw - seems like we all know a person or family that seems to draw every freakin' year! How the hell has every member of the Smith family drawn once in a lifetime moose tags!! Gggggdammit! ? But that's all it is, my brain being butthurt, not actually anything underhanded or illicit. ?

 

[JPickett]

You guys are funny. The comment was made by a F&G official (allegedly) that some of the units are being considered to go OIL for deer and elk. That must be because they are such premium units that the draw odds are chit. I simply said if they are going to be OIL they should be OIL for everyone. And why shouldn’t they be regardless of what some jack ass from Texas or New York can buy? ( pretty big New York land owner in 31 by the way, can see his look out from midvale hill on the highway, only time the “land owners” are there is during elk season)

But then the Brad little fan club cattleman’s association on here came out of the wood work This is why we can’t have nice things

 

[JPickett]

I’m cool with that so long as the public can quit feeding private livestock on public lands. I’m certain many others feel the same.

They don’t want to talk about that

 

[GSJ]

There is absolutely no legal financial windfall with a LAP tag. There absolutely could be bad apples that are somehow manipulating the system to their financial gain...I personally don't know any landowner that does and what I'm hearing here sounds more like innuendo and urban legend than fact - I really doubt that F&G doesn't care about lawbreaking landowners. There is a procedure for designating a landowner tag to someone other than the registered owner/agent and it happens well before the season starts...not standing over a dead animal after a trespass fee has been paid.

I transferred my landowner bull tag to a buddy this year. I had to go to F&G and fill out/sign a designation form. He had to go to F&G, cancel his already purchased but not started yet elk tag, then buy the tag for the designated controlled hunt. All I got out of it was sweaty, tired, hypoglycemic and stumbling back to camp at 1230 in the morning...not even a piece of freakin' elk jerky yet!:
View attachment 124977

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I get the angst folks have when they perceive someone else getting something they cannot get themselves re. landowner draw/tags - it sucks, I been there. My brain gets conspiratorial when the neighbors seem to draw tags every year and I've been 8 or 9 years with nothing...underhanded cheating profiteering sunzabeeches!! I think the same thing in the general controlled draw - seems like we all know a person or family that seems to draw every freakin' year! How the hell has every member of the Smith family drawn once in a lifetime moose tags!! Gggggdammit! ? But that's all it is, my brain being butthurt, not actually anything underhanded or illicit. ?

Fact. Trespass fee. Oh by the way here’s your tag that’ll be $7,000. I’m not speaking from a place of ignorance.

 

[dgfavor]

Fact. Trespass fee. Oh by the way here’s your tag that’ll be $7,000. I’m not speaking from a place of ignorance.

Just so I am clear, let me go thru this transaction as it seems you are stating it goes down:
Landowner: "that'll be $7000 for a trespass fee to my land"
Hunter: "sounds good, here you go"
Landowner: "thank you, oh, by the way, here's your elk tag"
Is that what you are saying is going on?

Sorry we've strayed from whatever the Unit 31 problem was in the first place - freakin' internet!

 

[GSJ]

Just so I am clear, let me go thru this transaction as it seems you are stating it goes down:
Landowner: "that'll be $7000 for a trespass fee to my land"
Hunter: "sounds good, here you go"
Landowner: "thank you, oh, by the way, here's your elk tag"
Is that what you are saying is going on?

Sorry we've strayed from whatever the Unit 31 problem was in the first place - freakin' internet!

Yes sir this is what is going on.

 

[Weiserbucks]

pretty big New York land owner in 31 by the way, can see his look out from midvale hill on the highway, only time the “land owners” are there is during elk season

My property butts up to it, they're well known for herding elk back into the core of the property if they think they're on the verge of leaving it. They've been ticketed more than once and they just keep doing it year in and year out.

Last year a woman hit and killed a 7x8 bull with her car on the highway and f'n Melon tried to get F&G to reimburse him for lost revenue.

 

[JPickett]

Just so I am clear, let me go thru this transaction as it seems you are stating it goes down:
Landowner: "that'll be $7000 for a trespass fee to my land"
Hunter: "sounds good, here you go"
Landowner: "thank you, oh, by the way, here's your elk tag"
Is that what you are saying is going on?

Sorry we've strayed from whatever the Unit 31 problem was in the first place - freakin' internet!

You can’t be that ignorant

 

[JPickett]

My property butts up to it, they're well known for herding elk back into the core of the property if they think they're on the verge of leaving it. They've been ticketed more than once and they just keep doing it year in and year out.

Last year a woman hit and killed a 7x8 bull with her car on the highway and f'n Melon tried to get F&G to reimburse him for lost revenue.

Just good ole salt of the earth Idaho landowners were just hating on. Kinda like the wilks bro’s

 

[dgfavor]

Yes sir this is what is going on.

The biggest problem I have with it going down the way you, and others, are stating is simply the way the LAP tags are distributed - a landowner that drew an LAP hunt does not have an actual tag to just hand over to someone and say here ya' go, go shoot an elk.
The way it would have to go down is:
Landowner: "that'll be $7500 for a trespass fee to my land"
Hunter: "sounds good here you go"
Landowner: "hey you know what? I drew a controlled hunt landowner bull tag for this unit this year and I'd like to give it to you. How's that sound?"
Hunter: "geez, that'd be great!"
Landowner: "I will fill out the designation form and designate my tag to you. I will either take or send the form to F&G and usually in about 3 days time it will have entered the vendor system and you can go to any Idaho license/tag vendor or the F&G office and purchase your tag just like any other controlled hunt tag."

I bolded/italic'd the last part because that's exactly how the LAP tags get distributed and those are the instructions sent to you by F&G when you get drawn for an LAP hunt - people seem to think the LAP tags get sent directly to the landowners to do with them as they wish which just isn't the case. That's really the only point I've been poorly trying to make because I know it's a common misconception.

All that said, it's not a far stretch, even for ignorant folks such as myself, to believe such arrangements like you fellars allege do happen. It certainly it violates the "spirit" of the LAP system and IMO violates the very clearly stated "Idaho State Law prohibits the selling or marketing of LAP tags" but such an arrangement may have just enough "gray" to be argued otherwise. Sounds like marketing then selling to me.

Ok back to regularly scheduled programming - where's the effin deer in 31? For cripes sakes!?

 

[andrew12gauge]

The biggest problem I have with it going down the way you, and others, are stating is simply the way the LAP tags are distributed - a landowner that drew an LAP hunt does not have an actual tag to just hand over to someone and say here ya' go, go shoot an elk.
The way it would have to go down is:
Landowner: "that'll be $7500 for a trespass fee to my land"
Hunter: "sounds good here you go"
Landowner: "hey you know what? I drew a controlled hunt landowner bull tag for this unit this year and I'd like to give it to you. How's that sound?"
Hunter: "geez, that'd be great!"
Landowner: "I will fill out the designation form and designate my tag to you. I will either take or send the form to F&G and usually in about 3 days time it will have entered the vendor system and you can go to any Idaho license/tag vendor or the F&G office and purchase your tag just like any other controlled hunt tag."

I bolded/italic'd the last part because that's exactly how the LAP tags get distributed and those are the instructions sent to you by F&G when you get drawn for an LAP hunt - people seem to think the LAP tags get sent directly to the landowners to do with them as they wish which just isn't the case. That's really the only point I've been poorly trying to make because I know it's a common misconception.

All that said, it's not a far stretch, even for ignorant folks such as myself, to believe such arrangements like you fellars allege do happen. It certainly it violates the "spirit" of the LAP system and IMO violates the very clearly stated "Idaho State Law prohibits the selling or marketing of LAP tags" but such an arrangement may have just enough "gray" to be argued otherwise. Sounds like marketing then selling to me.

Ok back to regularly scheduled programming - where's the effin deer in 31? For cripes sakes!?

Yes we understand, they don’t actually hand the tag over, I’ve also known for 20+ years that if you’re willing to pay a large “trespass fee” you can get a tag to hunt deer in unit 45. The correlation between prestige of a draw hunt and dollar amount of trespass fee is all I need to know what is really being sold

 

[Blindnonresident]

They will never get rid of the landowner tags.
To think so is incredibly ignorant.

 

[GSJ]

The biggest problem I have with it going down the way you, and others, are stating is simply the way the LAP tags are distributed - a landowner that drew an LAP hunt does not have an actual tag to just hand over to someone and say here ya' go, go shoot an elk.
The way it would have to go down is:
Landowner: "that'll be $7500 for a trespass fee to my land"
Hunter: "sounds good here you go"
Landowner: "hey you know what? I drew a controlled hunt landowner bull tag for this unit this year and I'd like to give it to you. How's that sound?"
Hunter: "geez, that'd be great!"
Landowner: "I will fill out the designation form and designate my tag to you. I will either take or send the form to F&G and usually in about 3 days time it will have entered the vendor system and you can go to any Idaho license/tag vendor or the F&G office and purchase your tag just like any other controlled hunt tag."

I bolded/italic'd the last part because that's exactly how the LAP tags get distributed and those are the instructions sent to you by F&G when you get drawn for an LAP hunt - people seem to think the LAP tags get sent directly to the landowners to do with them as they wish which just isn't the case. That's really the only point I've been poorly trying to make because I know it's a common misconception.

All that said, it's not a far stretch, even for ignorant folks such as myself, to believe such arrangements like you fellars allege do happen. It certainly it violates the "spirit" of the LAP system and IMO violates the very clearly stated "Idaho State Law prohibits the selling or marketing of LAP tags" but such an arrangement may have just enough "gray" to be argued otherwise. Sounds like marketing then selling to me.

Ok back to regularly scheduled programming - where's the effin deer in 31? For cripes sakes!?

Bud I’ve been on the receiving end. Trust me I know how it works as hard as that may be for you to believe. Make those tags non transferable. Then all the shenanigans come to an end.

 

[GSJ]

They don’t want to talk about that

It’s fukkin gross. Mile after mile of pristine kick ass game country. No trespassing don’t even ask Hit the public, there’s their shitty cattle on overgrazed range. It s frankly bullshit I’m not gonna bite my tongue about it.

 

[GSJ]

They will never get rid of the landowner tags.
To think so is incredibly ignorant.

Sounds like you’ve sold a few in your day, Hoss.

 

[Blindnonresident]

Nope.
Actually we keep the tag and rarely shoot a critter unless it's big.
And
We always hunt the public ground in the unit along side the other hunters.
It's the only perk of feeding hundreds of critters year round.
Perhaps you guys should chip in and build a fence around the private to keep your animals off it?
Bro

 

[Weiserbucks]

Perhaps you guys should chip in and build a fence around the private to keep your animals off it?

Perhaps you already know that Idaho is a fence-out state, build your own fence to keep our animals off of your property.

 

[JPickett]

We always hunt the public ground

This is always the best part “ I’m owed tags cuz I live here and they eat my grass”

Hunts public land because there’s no animals on his ground. Classic

 

[JPickett]

I am all for land owner tags, kept to the land you own . Who wants to bet if that was the rule more then half never bother to even apply?

 

[JPickett]

It’s fukkin gross. Mile after mile of pristine kick ass game country. No trespassing don’t even ask Hit the public, there’s their shitty cattle on overgrazed range. It s frankly bullshit I’m not gonna bite my tongue about it.

Yup, all those “hard working” ranchers with their federal welfare program

 

[Blindnonresident]

It's lunch time.
You guys better head out and eat your beef.

 

[Angry Chair]

I’m cool with that so long as the public can quit feeding private livestock on public lands. I’m certain many others feel the same.

Should we also consult the non-hunting public (vast majority of US taxpayers) that is forced to pay for the operation of the agencies that oversee the public land that we hunt?

 

[Blindnonresident]

The public has to eat so some have to raise more than just a complaint.

 

[bigcreekmetal]

My property butts up to it, they're well known for herding elk back into the core of the property if they think they're on the verge of leaving it. They've been ticketed more than once and they just keep doing it year in and year out.

Last year a woman hit and killed a 7x8 bull with her car on the highway and f'n Melon tried to get F&G to reimburse him for lost revenue.

You cannot be serious. Not about the herding of the elk I believe that, but Melon actually tried getting money from F&G for lost revenue?? What was their argument?

 

[Weiserbucks]

Melon actually tried getting money from F&G for lost revenue?? What was their argument?

He had a wealthy friend coming to shoot him, with the bull dead the wealthy friend was no longer going to visit and pay a hefty access fee. I'm dead serious.

 

[JPickett]

He had a wealthy friend coming to shoot him, with the bull dead the wealthy friend was no longer going to visit and pay a hefty access fee. I'm dead serious.

That place is a joke. My buddy flys his ranch just because he knows it pisses them off. They actually think you shouldn’t be able to fly over their place

Just good ole hard working Idaho land owners that deserve a little extra

 

[Blindnonresident]

You guys are infatuated with a Mellon.
Seems pretty odd.

 

[JPickett]

And you advocate for out of state billionaire “land owners” to get special treatment. ( love how everyone thinks landowner are ole man and pa potato farmers)

That seems odd too but ok

 

[Weiserbucks]

You guys are infatuated with a Mellon.
Seems pretty odd.

It's not an infatuation, it's just a POS landowner that many of us are familiar with.

 

[Blindnonresident]

Fair enough.
So judge all landowners by your local Mellon???

 

[JPickett]

Fair enough.
So judge all landowners by your local Mellon???

Don’t acknowledge that the increasing land ownership in Idaho is much like Mellon???

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

Interesting reads the landowner tag & landowner depredation hunts are a Frickin JOKE . I know a few people that buy these so called landowner elk tags every year they pay 5000 to 10000 $$ to buy an elk tag, OOPPS I mean a trespass fee !! The depredation tag according to the lady at F&G in Nampa that set it up, was intended to be used ONLY when a landowner called F&G & told them they had critters on their property !! That is not the case the landowners are giving tags out & people are using them as their Bonus tag. I know this for a FACT because I called a 2 years ago to see if they could tell me what landowners had tags available. I was looking to get my wife a tag for 31 the same lady told me they ALL had tags NO depredation issues had been reported !!! None of the landowners I had #s for had any left, also know a landowner that was calling F&G to see if they could get MORE tags !! That landowner when I went to his house to see if he had any told me he had NOT seen a single elk in over a month & it was Oct. I talked to a guy working on a ranch in unit 42 this past Friday he said the landowner had an agent out there showing people around the ranch & telling them what $5000 bought them !! the guy said access to the BLM !! they ran cows on their land & allowed zero hunting !! Also spoke with another landowner that has around 750 acres of grass pasture all the rest of their land is sage brush cheet & juniper trees & rocks they were allowed 21 landowner cow tags ?? Their road was 700 yards across to the BLM & they were NOT allowing any hunting or access !! This same Jack AZZ said IF we saw them spot lighting not to worry because they were allowed by F&G to do it. Another reason these landowners should NOT get LO tags IF you are not allowing hunters to help reduce the depredation issues or allowing access to the BLM where they are hanging out all day !! Then PISS OFF NO TAGS FOR YOU !!!!!

 

[Weiserbucks]

So judge all landowners by your local Mellon???

Of course not, I know some great people that own huge properties but there's always a POS in any given area.

 

[Blindnonresident]

Fair enough.