desert land and livestock views

LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-10 AT 00:15AM (MST)[p]Well alot of CMU operators are scum bags i like to know how 2 bear ranches gets away with chasin the bucks from the public side i Watched a lady that works for their outfit push some bucks right back to their ground with her ATV. It sure would be nice to get away with the things the rich guy who hunts gets away with.But yet if i were to chase a deer on the winter range or tresspass and push the deer or elk they think they own Im lookin at jail time and or fines. I think they should fine them for comin on our public land and pushing the animals after all if we have no buisess comin on to your ground stay off our white trash peasant 35 dollar deer tag ground. I guess us average joes will just have to stick to packin into the nasty backcountry to earn our animals.Oh slamdunk let me quote you back "why would we care about a 300 bull 1000s of others just like it or bigger" You really showed the dollar sign on that one i guess a 300 bull might as well be a spike in your eyes hugh let me guess you watched a little too many 400 inch bull videos glad your one of them guys i think anyone who kills a 300 or better bull has done a pretty good job trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Love those eastmans magazines. Oh another thing i know on your cow hunts you drive right through the herd scattering them which i know cause i know a guy thats been on 2 of your antlerless hunts and to do so in the time of year they are vulnerable which pushing a cow til her tounge is dry is no different and just as stressful as pushing a bull trying to get his antlers to drop well the mother has to give birth to the 400 inch bull tell me that is ethical. Oh ya let me guess the call of choice on the ranch is the hoochie mama. So the moral of the story is CMU is out for the money i wouldnt waste my points i think you can kill better quality bulls on a majority of the CMU's in the state. Oh ya and 2 bear ranches hope you guys enjoy your latest problem of wolves in your area.
 
>Destroyerself350,
>
>You sure don't represent the other
>side of the fence too
>well. I'm beginning to
>wonder if all the DLL
>guys are as bad as
>you. Your another reason to
>never put in for a
>hunt on your side of
>the fence.
>
>
>In your first statement, "I GENERALLY
>have a good idea whats
>happening on my side of
>the line" has been interpreted
>as, "you kind of know
>whats going on, on your
>side of the line".
>So how do you know
>when someone makes "dumbass" accusations
>when you only KIND OF
>KNOW whats going on over
>there in "happy, freindly, honest"
>land?
>
>No kidding DLL doesn't guide hunts
>on public land. Thats
>the reason they push the
>animals back on their land.
> You better try typing
>slower so your thought process
>can catch up with your
>fingers buddy.

I'll take that back I know what is happening on my side of the fence,hey you finally got it right, "happy, friendly, honest land"!! And again they have no reason or policy what so ever to herd animals on to the ranch, you do a fine job with that!! Glad you think we're buddies now BdbT!!!

Childish, I've been hearing these childish stories for 15yrs, only problem is I've never seen or heard of it ever happening on the ranch side of the line, there's absolutely no reason!!
 
Westrn tines, +1.. i hate blanket statements but, i couldnt agree more with how crooked some cwmu operators are. Alot of land owners know nothing of what some of these greedy outfitters do on there land. Ive seen it first hand from jumping borders on LE elk hunts to kill a bull to trying to get a "trophy fee" for a buck that wasnt deserving of public tag and everything in between, to the most common of jackin around with limiting days and limiting areas of the ranch. But some are better than others and DLL has always been the big flag ship for the state and they treat there public hunters first class, and thats one cwmu tag i hope to draw again soon!!
 
>Wow, this thread is still going
>strong?!?!
>
>I will say this. I
>have been out hunting a
>lot. A typical season
>finds me on the mountain
>30+ days. Out of
>all those days and years
>I don't think I have
>ever encountered a low flying
>chopper. Seen them off
>in the distance and such,
>but not low flying like
>has been said by multiple
>persons on this thread.
>Kind of odd that would
>be the case up there
>so much. Not saying
>the choppers are dll or
>not, just a little weird
>that is happening fairly regularly
>up there.
>
>Also I want to say that
>while slam represents and defends
>dll respectfully and professionally, destroyer350
>makes me not want to
>ever hunt the property with
>his verbal assaults and immature
>responses. I'd be afraid
>I'd end up with him
>as my guide! Not
>trying to hurt anybody's feelings,
>but I believe when you
>represent a business you need
>to carry yourself with a
>certain amount of professionalism and
>respect. Now that being
>said, I don't believe that
>has been represented well from
>some of the "anti dll"
>crowd as well, but I
>have higher expectations from somebody
>representing a big company such
>as dll.
>
>Just my .02


Sorry you feel that way alp75, that wasn't my intention, but I suppose that I've earned it. As for guiding you, and I'm sure it would be with Slam or any other guide on the ranch for that matter, would work our butts off to make sure you would have as an enjoyable and ethical hunt as possible! And within the limits of the law. The ranch is managed so that there is plenty of game within the 200,000+ acres so we DO NOT have to herd wildlife on to the property, there is winter, summer, spring, and fall habitat, if the game wants to leave, there is nothing holding them, not even a 4 wire fence in places. So the same old wore out story that will never go away, no matter how ethical we play the game, gets very old to listen to. Some of these fellers hunt right on the border, that is marked very well I might add, so they need to expect some issues of wounded game running back onto the ranch. If eyecrazy wants to try and call bulls across the border of the ranch when he is bow hunting , he needs to expect them to run back onto the DLL, he is possibly going to get to know Klegg pretty well!!!!

And as Slam said earlier, we get lots of fly bys during some hunts. We try to get numbers off of the birds if possible so we can PROVE who it is.
 
I wish the department of wildlife would not give any private land owner tags. This would fix the problem. There are people getting rich off our wildlife. If they don't want wildlife on there property the can fence them out. It should be against the law to give tags to them!!
 
>I wish the department of wildlife
>would not give any private
>land owner tags. This would
>fix the problem. There are
>people getting rich off our
>wildlife. If they don't want
>wildlife on there property the
>can fence them out. It
>should be against the law
>to give tags to them!!
>
Who says they don't want wildlife on their property, that's absurd!
You can thank the northern CWMU property owners and THEIR managament of big game to how healthy the northern deer herds are, private or not they are taking great bucks on several properties up there.
Look at the lost creek drainage for example, now look at the Sawtooth range "open" area.
Nuff said

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out of the 21 bulls that I or people that hunt with me have killed only 4 have crossed the border in the last ten 10 years. I would love to know kleg well I had a good relationship with bret barny I don't see why it would be any diferent with kleg. Maybe the should spend some time to get to know the people that hunt up there and then they might get some help or even know where they could spend more time on the trespassers. I love to hunt and will never do anything that might stop me from doing that. my camp is always open and I will help anyone that I can I think that most of the regular archery hunters up there know me and my camp so feel free to stop in and swap stories. I would realy like to meet you to destroyer350 so next year feel free to stop in my camp
 
Since we are bad mouthing CWMU operators.....Without being personal, I'll throw one out there for the Weber/Florence Creek(1000 Peaks ranch) I would highly reccommend NOT!!!!.....I REPEAT......NOT!!!!! hunting there!!!!! CROOKED!!!
 
If they don't care about a 300 bull or a 330 border bull why would kleg get to know me I do every thing by the law so what would be the problem other thatn me killing those border jumpers. if they stay in dll then they are safe but the minute they come out they are dead. I have called them right past dll security they don't always bugle when they border jump.
 
I think it all comes down to hunting presure if they would do away with cwmu's I think it would help then all the private land owners would have to cater to the public the ones with the tags it would also relieve the hunting presure on public land so we could build those herds back. back before cwmu's the hunting was alot better hunters had private land that they could hunt but now we all hunt the same places.
 
Wouldn't matter, they could still sell hunts,just during the general seasons, wouldn't mean you're going to get more access to private property. My God there's millons of acres of public land, far more in the west than private property, go hunt it!!!

"Catered to" really!!!!
 
i am not saying I would get more access but other people that did have access don't anymore so they all hunt the public land causing over crowding. I do very well hunting I just like to kill bigger bulls that is why I hunt were I do I see very few deer in that area so I hunt other places. but for elk what other anybull unit really has 300 plus bulls north slop south slop maybe but few and far between.
 
but then they would'nt be hunt deer in the rut or deer and elk from september to december. I wonder if that might help the deer herds scence most of the private land is in a cwmu now days. I just don't see how the cwmu progarm helps deer and elk all I see it doing is making utah high dollar hunting. there was alot more game before cwmu's and alot more access to private land.
 
eyecrazy-
So lets say you owned a 30,000 acre cattle ranch that had been passed down through your family for several generations and you had groomed it over the years for how YOU want the wildlife on it.
How excited are YOU going to be to drive around YOUR ranch the evening before the general opener, open all your gates and watch trailer after trailer pull in and make camping spots because the DWR told you you had to do it?
And how excited will YOU and YOUR family be on opening morning when you are seeing orange dots, noisy pick up trucks and atv's all over your mountain???
I kinda have to beleive it would leave a really nasty taste in your mouth.








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Absurd' No fact they should not have special tags!! You are right about one thing they do want wildlife on there land. Private land owners can and should only let who they want on their property. There should not be CWMU tags or land owner tags. They can let anyone hunt that has a tag that was drawn in the regular draw process.
 
If the state managed public land as well as some private land owners do, we wouldn't be having this conversation. And the fact is that if they manage their property right the hunt would still cost you $10,000+ which most every day joes can't afford, including me, which doesn't bother me at all.
 
Most of the elk up on Monte and the surrounding areas along the DLL border are there BECAUSE of DLLs managment. Thanks to the way they manange the ranch and the herds on the ranch we have a bunch more elk every year that stry over to public property.

So when people complain about DLL maybe they should think about THAT first.
 
It all comes down to hunt presure dll has nothing to do with all the land in the south and north cache and look at all the elk over there I agree that if dll was not there then the elk hunting would not be as good and I think that the do a great job for the people in the ranch. I just wish that the state would do more for the public like they do for the private land owners I just don't see how giveing them tags to hunt when ever helps the herds let them hunt when we hunt our public animals. like I said 20 years ago the public had more access to private land wether it was a friends property or we bought tresspass permits or you just asked and the let you go just close the gate and don't shoot around the livestock is what they would say. but now it is all cwmu and it 7 to 10000.00 to hunt
 
"I just don't see how giveing them tags to hunt when ever helps the herds let them hunt when we hunt our public animals."

Not to seem arrogant here eyecrazy, but are you serious?
Do you even know how a CWMU works and how they get their EXTREMELY limited tags??
I hope you don't think a landowner just get a pile of free tags to do whatever he wants to.
They are given a certain LIMITED number of tags based on the amount of acreage versus the population of wildlife using it.
An owner may have a 30,000 acre ranch but has very little deer and or elk using it, he may only receive 5 tags, the next guy may get 50 based on the same criteria and a certain percentage of tags are allocated to the general public through the CWMU draw just like our LE tags.

So how it "helps the herds" is one key word......managament.
If DLL was open to the general public it would hardly have any elk on it at all, nor would the surrounding public lands.
As mentioned above, the land around DLL can be attributed to DLL's excellent management practices over many many years.










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LAST EDITED ON Oct-03-10 AT 02:21AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-10 AT 10:25?PM (MST)

I thougth it was a 10% type of thing for every 10 tags they get the public gets 1 I did say that if dll was not there then the hunting would not be what it is they managed the ranch the same way now then thay did before cwmu program so how did the cwmu help I think most of the cwmu don't do anything to manage the land or the wildlife they became a cwmu so they could make more money from the wildlife or so they could hunt deer in the rut. or elk on LE areas were we all have to draw. some of the cwmu's don't even have any wildlife on them tell the game move to winter range. I just don't see why the need special hunting like rifles in september and hunting tell december or january I remember hunting 20plus years ago and it was better. so if dll has 2500 elk how many tags do the get. I believe that dll has a 30 percent harvest objective on wildlife on the ranch I just looked on antlerd elk the public get 15% and antlerd deer 12.3% of all cwmu tags
 
if you don't know how many tags the ranch get's then how many tags does bucks and bulls get or buy a year I thought that you and destroyer350 said that one of you had 18 hunters
 
I just looked up wild country guide services elk on dll is 17500.for a trophy and 9500. for management elk archery elk 12000. management deer 4500. trophy deer 12500. end of sept elk 15000. oct elk 13500.00 maybe 9500.00 is a good reason to chace or try to keep the 300 class bulls on the ranch
 
I don't have any "facts", but i was told by one of your guides that deseret shoots more bulls off there property now that they are in a CWMU than when they hunted just the general seasons...
 
eyecrazy-
I am just one of the guides but have been doing it for 16 years, i don't know or get involved in the business end of what any of the three outfitters do or have availlable up there. I go to a guide meeting each spring and get assigned my hunts and i go do them with a big smile on my face. I don't ever pay attention to the prices of the hunts because that end simply doesn't matter to me.
I DO know we keep about 2400 head on that ranch annually and the bull to cow ratios are kept at 1:3.
I do know for a fact that there is absolutely NO reason to herd elk back on the ranch with helicopters, that's just absurd. Yes there are guards there that are paid to watch the borders and trust me, they are busy doing so. All these rumors and stories are exaggerated by people who are jealous of the ranch and the money involved in it. I am sorry you can't hunt it, not my fault, nor will i ever be able too for that matter, but i am honored to be able to guide there several times each fall and at least have the experiences that i have had over the years. I guess i am very lucky that way :)











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Actually he could hunt it if he applied for the hunt and drew, eyecrazy if you'd draw the hunt you would see why they don't herd wildlife! Great habitat with good elk numbers!
 
I am not complaining that I can't hunt on the ranch maybe one day I will draw it but I wish they would leive the people that hunt outside the border alone or the law abiding ones that don't trespass we really don't have alot of options to hunt any bulls or branched antlerd bulls so if they only give us the small anybull units then people are going to hunt the borders.
the only things that I have seen is running the raods with trucks and four wheelers and pushing the sheep in all the canyons on the borders in and out side the ranch maybe if the moved the sheep out the first of sept they would not have as many problems with trespassing I know if the sheep was not there in sept the ranch would have less problems.
 
Trust me eyecrazy, i was cussing those damn sheep over by lightning as well. It seems they are always running them in there in september, that's why we don't even look at that area when hunting the ranch, that whole west border is usually full of mountain maggots.





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it is just amazing how fast they can whipout the vegitation what they don't eat they trampel. the state traper said that those big dogs kill more deer than the prediters do some thing need to change or nun of use will be hunting in 20 years
 
I don't care if they have 2,500 or 10,000 head on their land year round. They should not be given one tag. We need to pass a law to put an end to it. I do agree most all land owners manage the game on their land way better than the state. That doesn't change the fact that they don't deserve one tag!!
 
if we don't start going to the rack meetings and voice our conserns then nothing will change the public has the power the public spends way more money hunting than the high dollar guys
but if we just let them do what they want we have no one to blame we have to ban together. It blows me away how some people would give up public hunting for one chance in a lifetime cwmu hunt. just like the le units for elk my kids or grand kids will never have enough points to draw we need biger anybull units or more of them or change them around would be nice let the herds grow on the ones we have now and harvest some of the other units there has to be a better way.
 
>I don't care if they have
>2,500 or 10,000 head on
>their land year round. They
>should not be given one
>tag. We need to pass
>a law to put an
>end to it. I do
>agree most all land owners
>manage the game on their
>land way better than the
>state. That doesn't change the
>fact that they don't deserve
>one tag!!



Uh huh.....i'm sure you'd be singing a much different tune if you had land ;-)


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No I wouldn't change my mind! The animals should not be given to them. Do we get cows for them running them on public land?
 
>if we don't start going to
>the rack meetings and voice
>our conserns then nothing will
>change the public has the
>power the public spends way
>more money hunting than the
>high dollar guys
>but if we just let them
>do what they want we
>have no one to blame
>we have to ban together.
>It blows me away how
>some people would give up
>public hunting for one chance
>in a lifetime cwmu hunt.
>just like the le units
>for elk my kids or
>grand kids will never have
>enough points to draw we
>need biger anybull units or
>more of them or change
>them around would be nice
>let the herds grow on
>the ones we have now
>and harvest some of the
>other units there has to
>be a better way.


You could always go back to OTC tags with all the LE elk and deer units, that would solve your hunting pressure problem, scatter hunters out better than worrying about private land!
 
Do we get cows for them running them on public land?

I used to when I was younger and didnt have much money/
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-10 AT 08:13PM (MST)[p]I know this is a little off the subject, but I've been following this post all the way and I didn't have a chance to post this while it was being discussed originally.

Before the sheep...

2898110.jpg


After the sheep....

9181084.jpg
 
You guys have been argueing for how long now about what people do with their own land, when its pretty obvious that the thing affecting public land the most is the livestock, but your not going to say much about that are you? Why? Because there is a guy somewhere who owns those livestock who is just trying to make a living. Plus, a lot of the land you consider public, is not public at all. How are the privite land owners any different? They are just guys trying to make money off of their property, one way or another, no?

You guys are also making a lot of complaints about a public resource being used as means for profit for a privite landowner....so how do you feel about paying money for gas, oil, lumber, steel, water, etc. These are all public recources, are they not? Yet the people you buy them from invest time and money to use them as a means to gain a profit, are they not?

You don't like something that is legal, vote to change it. Until then, make the most of it. Deseret does a lot of good things, there might be people within the organization that have their own motives, but I've yet to see it. Show me an orginization without at least one flaw of some sort, and I'll show you someone who's been snowed...(just need a mirror)
 
that is the best idea yet would love to see that keep the tag numbers where they are and let us hunt all the public ground
 
I know Ken Clegg personally and he is Salt of the Earth. He is truly a fine individual and I have NO question what so ever about his motives or methods.

He was hired to protect against trespassers and that is what he is doing.
 
I don't trespass so how is not letting us retrieve game stoping trespassing anytime I have been on the ranch it has been with the dnr or dll people. like I said maybe he should get to know the people hunting that area and he might not have as many problems insted of puting random letters on trucks.
 
Hey Slamdunk, I hope you are still reading this post, I have been working the last few days but I wanted to respond to your post #128. You seem like a respectable guy that knows quite a bit about what goes on up there. I am going to give you the business side of the deal along with a challenge at the end.
If you remember I told you that I work for a large grocery chain, They do over $100 million in sales every year and they have a policy that states "we prosecute all shoplifters". The reason behind this is they do not want anybody taking their merchandise. I was in loss prevention for about 10 years and I have arrested over 1000 shoplifters. Here is why they prosecute everyone, if a guy takes a pack of cigarrettes today and you do not stop him he will come back tomorrow and take another. Now lets add that up for a year 1 pack a day times 365 days at $5. per pack= $1825 per year. In 1997 the last year I was at the store level I stopped $83,000 from leaving that store times that by 77 stores and you get over $6,000,000 in theft of inventory that this company spent lots of time and money to get the product out so customers could buy it. Do they care about their merchandise ABSOLUTLEY.

Now, on the dll business side those bull elk are their inventory and if one 350 class bull leaves does dll care ABSOLUTLEY they care. See if they let one bull go each month thats only 12 bulls out of 2400 elk, no big deal right? Wrong, each one of them bulls is inventory and they have a dollar amount attatched to them anywhere from 8-15 thousand each thats $96000-$180000 per year and you know how much it costs to run that place and keep the animals healthy. Thats how they look at it from a business standpoint, and if you do not believe me here is your challenge, go into the owners office or whoever is the top dog and ask him if you can have a 350 class bull, and when he tells you hell no then you tell him exactly what you told us on here that it is only 1 bull and dll doesent care about 1 bull because there are 1000 more just like it. He will do 1 of 2 things, kick you out of his office or explain it to you and it will be about exact of what I have said.
Then go to your nearest BestBuy and ask the store manager if you can have a wii system and tell him its only 1 you have a lot more just like it, I think you get my point.

Please do not get me wrong I am not trying to bash you in any way I like reading your posts and you seem to have a lot of hunting experience, I just want you to understand the business side and why dll cares about every animal on the ranch not just elk and thats the way it shoud be, its a business and they are in it to make a profit.

Probably a little more than my two-cents
Allen
 
then you also have to look at elk verses a cow or sheep elk you don't have to vacinate or worry about calving you don't have to sheer don't have to feed you don't have to move twice a year. you don't have got to the sale you don't have to buy them looks to me like free money in the bank for the land owners
 
Evidently you fellers don't know Rick, 1 350 bull on the public land side doesn't matter, if the 350 bull isn't inside the store it isn't stealing!!!!

eyecrazy, this is sounding more like an envy issue than anything, wildlife isn't free!
 
destroyer I have been offered jobs guiding but can't quit my day job I posted the bull I killed this year so where is yours I don't see anything to envy like I said feel free to stop in my camp any time we can swap stories yours on the ranch and mine off maybe I will draw and you can guide me if you can call better than I can. I would love to see how those bulls act when I don't have to pull them over a mile.
 
So Eyecrazy,

You hunt the border every year pulling elk off Dll. Once there on legal shooting ground you or your party shoot them! Once in a while they run back on Dll(naturally) And you have done so for the last 10 years.
So why would you be suprised Dll would put a note on your car? You know your intentions and so do they!
Sorry but I have to agree with Dll on this. In your mind, as long as you can get an arrow into the animal before it crosses back to Dll everything is great.
Now just so you know, I hunt up there some years and most people that hunt up there know there is a chance to catch a big bull crossing the line. Thats why im there!
why make a big deal about this, especially on mm? I think it will hurt you more then it will help you. Why not settle it with Dll and come to an agreement? now they will go to great length to make it very hard for you if you wound a bull. And im sure you can expect many more hunters to join you as well.
 
+1 archeral.....it is a business, plain and simple, from the times that i have been to the checkin station on DLL a 350 bull is a above average bull for the ranch. I say this after seeing the pics on the wall n the checkin cabin, talking to the guys in the cabin, and having 2 friends that have guided on the ranch for 10+ yrs, having my wife on 2 hunts on DLL and asking questions of those 2 guides. ALL of them stated that trespassers were a BIG concern and that any bull they can save from geting snuffed on public ground was a good thing. my brother and i have harvested 2 bulls off lightning ridge. (about 5 and 6 yrs ago)and before i got to the check station they knew that i had killed bulls within a 100 or so yards from the border, the exact words from the dwr guy was "you had better be careful you are being watched"....a friend of my brothers killed a HUGE bull off the property line and spent MANY years fighting the DWR and DLL about the issue...don't tell me they don't care about a 350 bull.....like i stated in a previuos post they shoot twice as many bulls while enrolled in the CWMU than when they hunted the general seasons...thats a fact...
 
they never used to bother me. but for the past two years they have so I am just suposed to take it. There is so many people that hunt monte it is no secret so why not post it on here let the people know what they have to do so they can get on the phone and get the dnr on the way if they kill some thing and it goes on dll save them some problems I think alot of people thought that you had the right to retrieve game but now they know they can't I thought you could so hopefully this will save someone from getting a hunting on a cwmu ticket which is what you get if you are on dll with a weapon not a trespass ticket. I have talked to dll numers times there is no agreement to be made they want to keep the elk in and I want to pull them out so I do what I can to pull them out and they do what the can to keep them in so I just pull them further out so they don't make it back after the shot. you should take a ride this weekend and you will see what a secret it is should be renamed lighting ridge city. you hunt whith one of my buddys wade so maybe one day we will meet good luck
 
WOW, and this entire mess started when some nice folks from Alton came to the Big Game Board and asked the Board if they couldn't please have a tag or maybe two so their kids could shot a deer on their own farm land. They couldn't draw a tag and they were feeding so many deer, just a tag or two wouldn't hurt anyone, surely it wouldn't.

We all sat there and listened and then went to the microphone and said (as the general public) "we agree, surely the board could do that for these good folks. What can it hurt, a couple of tags, as the general public, we think the board should grant their request."

Well..........................that's how this all got started, when you were all but a twinkle in your Pappy's eye. A kind gesture by the sportsmen and...................land closures followed like the small leak grew in the Teton Dam. (oops, maybe the Teton Dam goes back too far too.) Oh well, it's the pits to know the past............make's ya pissy!

For figure.

DC
 
Hell if you can pull bulls over a mile, you're a better hand than I. I didn't mean hunting ability or kill envy but a place to hunt envy, which I can understand. Sure I'll hunt with ya if you get the tag. Some people you hunt for, some people you hunt with!!!

Also a good thing for everyone to know is there is alot of other private property up there, so it isn't just DLL.

By the way, DLL doesn't care if you kill a 350 bull on the public land side of the fence, if you can get'er done thats great no one that I know will be to concerned!!
 
got one on video that I pull over 1000 yards and kill him at 40 yards don't know how far he game before that but you can see him come over 1000. the bulls that I have killed were so far away that you could barley hear there bugels so how far do you think they were I am sure you can see most of the bulls on the ranch and how far away they are when you can hear them come up next year and I will prove it. I got nothing to hide
 
Oh No! I wont go anywhere near that place this weekend, been there done that. I just couldnt figure out the reasoning. Your last post sums it up about what you wanted to get across. Like I said I hunt up there and will as often as I can for the same reasons as you. Im not saying your in the wrong, public land is public land.
 
>got one on video that I
>pull over 1000 yards and
>kill him at 40 yards
>don't know how far he
>game before that but you
>can see him come over
>1000. the bulls that I
>have killed were so far
>away that you could barley
>hear there bugels so how
>far do you think they
>were I am sure you
>can see most of the
>bulls on the ranch and
>how far away they are
>when you can hear them
>come up next year and
>I will prove it. I
>got nothing to hide


eyecrazy, that was a compliment, not a smart ass remark!!!
 
>Hey Slamdunk, I hope you are
>still reading this post, I
>have been working the last
>few days but I wanted
>to respond to your post
>#128. You seem like a
>respectable guy that knows quite
>a bit about what goes
>on up there. I am
>going to give you the
>business side of the deal
>along with a challenge at
>the end.
> If you remember I
>told you that I work
>for a large grocery chain,
>They do over $100 million
>in sales every year and
>they have a policy that
>states "we prosecute all shoplifters".
>The reason behind this is
>they do not want anybody
>taking their merchandise. I was
>in loss prevention for about
>10 years and I have
>arrested over 1000 shoplifters. Here
>is why they prosecute everyone,
>if a guy takes a
>pack of cigarrettes today and
>you do not stop him
>he will come back tomorrow
>and take another. Now lets
>add that up for a
>year 1 pack a day
>times 365 days at $5.
>per pack= $1825 per year.
>In 1997 the last year
>I was at the store
>level I stopped $83,000 from
>leaving that store times that
>by 77 stores and you
>get over $6,000,000 in theft
>of inventory that this company
>spent lots of time and
>money to get the product
>out so customers could buy
>it. Do they care about
>their merchandise ABSOLUTLEY.
>
>Now, on the dll business side
>those bull elk are their
>inventory and if one 350
>class bull leaves does dll
>care ABSOLUTLEY they care. See
>if they let one bull
>go each month thats
>only 12 bulls out of
>2400 elk, no big deal
>right? Wrong, each one of
>them bulls is inventory and
>they have a dollar amount
>attatched to them anywhere from
>8-15 thousand each thats $96000-$180000
>per year and you know
>how much it costs to
>run that place and keep
>the animals healthy. Thats how
>they look at it from
>a business standpoint, and if
>you do not believe me
>here is your challenge, go
>into the owners office or
>whoever is the top dog
>and ask him if you
>can have a 350 class
>bull, and when he tells
>you hell no then you
>tell him exactly what you
>told us on here that
>it is only 1 bull
>and dll doesent care about
>1 bull because there are
>1000 more just like it.
>He will do 1 of
>2 things, kick you out
>of his office or explain
>it to you and it
>will be about exact of
>what I have said.
>Then go to your nearest BestBuy
>and ask the store manager
>if you can have a
>wii system and tell him
>its only 1 you have
>a lot more just like
>it, I think you get
>my point.
>
>Please do not get me wrong
>I am not trying to
>bash you in any way
>I like reading your posts
>and you seem to have
>a lot of hunting experience,
>I just want you to
>understand the business side and
>why dll cares about every
>animal on the ranch not
>just elk and thats the
>way it shoud be, its
>a business and they are
>in it to make a
>profit.
>
>Probably a little more than my
>two-cents
>Allen
>
>

Allen-
Sorry i haven't responded to this yet, i have actually been back up on DLL doing my 3rd hunt in four weeks, just got got home.
Although i can appreciate your comparison here and i do get your point, the accusations of DLL's actions are over the top absurd. Of course DLL will and DOES prosecute tresspassers and poachers just like you would a person stealing a pack of cigerettes, but they do NOT need to herd one bull back onto the ranch like he is a "commodity". Those bulls up there are free to come and go as they please, no one is watching them and keeping them from hopping the fence, that's just a HUGE waste of time when there are well over a thousand other bulls roaming the ranch.
The border guards are watching for tresspassers (cigerette stealers) they won't stop to pick up a pack that fell off the truck and put it on the shelf ;-)
http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
 
FYI and for the record, if you guys want to hunt the borders and call bulls over, i have no problem with that, it's simply your right to do so.....just don't wound one and let him come back on the ranch. If he does, don't expect a warm welcome to retreive him.
If it were me, i'd go about it as legal and ethical as possible and try to work with the guards and DWR.....you'll get a hell of a lot further that way than hopping the fence with an excuse that you are "doing the right thing for the animal".







http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
 
I hope by now that everyone knows what to do if a wonded animal cross into dll get on the phone to dll and the dnr that will save alot of problems.
 
>I hope by now that everyone
>knows what to do if
>a wonded animal cross into
>dll get on the phone
>to dll and the dnr
>that will save alot of
>problems.

Please tell me you didn't just say that...
Do you make it a common practice to cross on to private land without permission to retreive your animal?
Try that in Colorado and you won't be hunting in at least 4 states for quite a few years.
I don't care what state or where you are hunting, you "will save a lot of problems" if you simply avoid one all together ;-)

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
 
Eyecrazy,

So it seems you've been hunting this spot for quite some time now? You may have stated this in one of the 167 posts (holy cow that's a lot!). Remind me: How long have you hunted the border & How many incidents have you or members of your group had with retrieving wounded\dead elk that crossed back onto deseret after you (legally) shot them on the public side? Have you ever offered them anything for allowing the retrieval? Do you feel, even the slightest little bit, that you're taking advantage of them? Just wondering?


"...I got a shotgun, rifle, and a 4 wheel
drive, and a country boy can survive..."

Hank Williams Jr.
 
I would like to know how in the hell a person is taking advantage of the ranch if they shot an animal on public land? Then the wounded animal goes on private land. Any person that shots wildlife on public land is not in the wrong!!! You should be going off on the ranch for not allowing a hunter to go look for a wounded animal.
 
Bearman,

You're absolutely right that animals shot on public ground is perfectly fine. That's not what I'm questioning. Shooting animals so close to border, knowing full well where they might\could\...dare I say, likely end up, and doing it repeated times (I'm assuming repeated times-that was one of my questions for eyecrazy) just doesn't sit that well with me. (For me), it's one of those scenarios that would be in the back of my mind whispering, "just because you can, doesn't neccesarily mean you should". If I was confident that elk would die on public land, then by all means, fire away! Seems to me that is what deseret is questioning. And I think it's fair question to ask...especially if he (eyecrazy) expects them to just let him walse in & get his elk....even more so if this happens frequently. Judging by his posts, eyecrazy seems like a pretty adept hunter. I think he knows that even though he shoots these elk on public property (which is totally ok), he also knows it's a coin flip if they're going to die on public ground (not so good). IF (let me repeat IF) that is the case, then yes I think he is taking advantage of deseret.


"...I got a shotgun, rifle, and a 4 wheel
drive, and a country boy can survive..."

Hank Williams Jr.
 
I have hunted up there for 10 or 11 years we meaning me or some one hunting with me have killed 21 bulls and out of the 21 only 4 have crossed into dll we retrieved 1 of those so in 11 years we have lost 3 bulls in dll bad shot placement so is that bad I don't think so I don't hunt right on the border I am at the closest 200 yards normaly the go maybe sixty and the are dead but some times they keep going I know that there is a couple of guys that hunt up there that but there tree stands on the cat cut 10 yards off the border i am not one of them. last year 2009 this guy set his tree stand on the border shot 3 bulls lost the first 2 and retrieved the third I think he really started the bad mojo. the storey I got is he was a first year hunter that an old hunt helped he told him about his spot and the kid tookover puting his tree stand between the old guys and dll on the cat cut so I don't think the old hunter will help anyone again. so this year I heard that dll security really messed with the young hunter and that is why dll has got so bad about retrieval of game. but it is not there game it is the state's and it is public I don't agree with what the young hunt does to many chances for them to go on dll. I prefer that dll don't know when I kill a bull because every time they hear about one the sheep get pushed in the canyons I hunt.
 
and no I don't compinsate them for letting me retreive animals they are our animals I do everything legal and all I have had them do is watch us hall out the animal they don't let you use there roads or take four wheelers so what is there to compinsate
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-10 AT 00:38AM (MST)[p]but if it was a case then they would we should have killed atleast 4 bulls we killed 2 and wonded one and that was just my party what about the other 4 or 5 hundred people that was up there even if you just say 3 or 4 other people killed one then that makes 8 dead bulls so they don't care about 1 but do the care about 8 at 17500.00 a bull I think they do. If it has my ranch I would. that is only archery lets say the rifel hunters kill 3 or 4 and the muzzy guys kill 3 or 4 now the number is 16 plus the one's that you say get poached should we say anouther 3 or 4 now we hit 20 that's alot of lost money
 
Can the DLL go on public land to retrieve an animal that is wounded on their private ground "yes"? I don't care if that kid hunted two inch's on public ground he was and is legal. DLL should be fined for waste of game if they don't let a person retrieve the game. They are the problem not the hunters hunting on public ground. Can I keep DLL cows if they come on my private property "no"? I should be able too if they can not let someone retrieve their game from their land.
 
Same goes for us as the public hunter, we need to get in touch with DWR in order to look for wounded game and prove it was wounded on DLL, off of the property, because DLL tags are not valid off of the ranch.

You can look for wounded game on the ranch if you get in touch with a Game Warden and security and prove it was wounded on public land, ask eyecrazy he has stated it several times.
 
Quit hunting the property lines, problem solved. Bearman- just guessing you are not a property owner! lol

T264
 
Bearman-
Did you seriously just compare roaming wild elk to the owning of domestic cattle??
If so then i am done reading your posts on this issue.






http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx290/slamdunk_04/E1x1BWINV1-2.jpg[/IMG]
 
Slamdunk-
I hope you are done because no sportsmen needs to listen to someone thats for giving tags away because you make money off guiding for dll.
 
Soooo, anybody want to report on how the retard circus went on the border this year?I hope some public hunters scored a couple of sweet bulls and that nobody got shot.
 
Has anyone ever been to the old minners cabin on DLL? Pretty cool. I wonder how long the bear skull has been hanging on the wall? Probably the turn of the 20th century!! Thing I can't figure out is what was he mining! All of his tools are still there. But a sluice box why? And is the name on the wall that of Butch Cassidy? Just says Butch!! Anybody with history of it? Found it before DLL was DLL
I also met the Ken Clegg, Rick, and Bob, Thought they were stand up guys. I drew moose back when it was a PHU before CWMU in fact the first permit ever offered to the public.
Rutnbuck
 
well I got to tag along with a buddy that does DLL security on the rifle opener this year. It was quite a circus, but we didn't see any problems on our end. We watched the cat cut on Lightning and it was pretty boring. Just a few shots in the morning and that was about it. We did watch a camp of three guys walk about 100 yards down the hill from camp, sit for an hour and then retire to camp. that was pretty funny to watch. Those guys probably spent a whole day getting thier camp to that spot and then hunted for an hour 100 yards from camp. If only they would have seen what was further down the hill :D
 
were is the minnes cabin on dll how deep in dll I know a bunch of guys that snowmobile in there would be cool to checkout
 

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