Did any of you draw your 2nd choice ?

N

nebo12000

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LAST EDITED ON May-21-14 AT 03:59PM (MST)[p]I have had several people contact me concerning the Big Game draw. Some received an e-mail showing that they have drawn their 2nd choice for General Deer, then they are finding out that a family member, friend etc had put the unit as their 1st choice (some even had preference points) and did not draw the tag. My question is, should the DWR/Fallon NV be filling the permit quotas in a unit with those that put that unit as their first choice and THEN fill the unit quota (if there are any left) with those who would have put the unit as their second choice. I am going to get it on the agenda at a RAC meeting (probably Nov)and try to get this straightened out. I believe that the draw was supposed to be set up so that the tags in a unit would be given to those that chose it as their first choice and then go to those who chose it as their 2nd choice if their were any tags left.
My opinion is that the folks in Fallon are doing it incorrectly. It makes me question why we are paying them $1.5+ million to conduct the draw.
 
My 11 year old daughter drew san juan rifle deer which was her 2nd choice. My wife drew her first choice which was beaver general rifle. I'm fine with that because it means I dont have to let my daughter hunt on my lifetime tag and I still get to muzzleload on the beaver. It sucks they didn't both draw the same unit but we can deal with that.

Priority will go to my daughters hunt and if we get done early we go back to beaver and let my wife hunt.

I don't see how the draw would work the way you are suggesting as it is the individual who gets drawn (not the unit) and they draw their first available choice.
 
Nebo- this is a UDWR decision, not Fallon. The issue is already on the radar and has been studied for 2 years, with this year being the 3rd year. The Board declined to deal with it the past 2 years, but are revisiting the issue this year. Look for it over the summer. Contact me I you want more info.

Todd- I think he is referring to the San Juan general tag, not the ltd unit. And she can apply at 11 if she turns 12 before the season ends.

My sons drew their 2nd choice. They had 2 points and didn't draw their 1st choice. That means their first choice general unit takes 3+ years to draw as a youth.
 
Here is the way the general deer draw works.
They take the highest point group and go through all of that point group's first choice (in order of lowest random #) and give them the tag if available
They then look at that same group and go through their 2nd choice and give them their tag if available
They then look at that same group and go through their 3rd choice and give them their tag if available
They then look at that same group and go through their 4th choice and give them their tag if available
They then look at that same group and go through their 5th choice and give them their tag if available

They then drop to the next highest point group and proceed with the same sequence

They repeat this until they hit the point group with 0 points

This is the way the general deer draw is done. If you do not like it or think it is unfair, DNR is the only ones who can change it. Sounds like the draw was done correctly by your description.
 
Right Todd, it was the abajos. Sorry for the confusion. I realize they are seperate units. I am just in the habit of calling that area san juan. My daughter was with me 3 years ago when I hunted it she likes it over there. It's also where I shot my first deer back in 1987. The good thing is we can stay at the inlaws in blanding. Drawing a tag is about the only way my wife can get me over there to visit.
 
Don't Try & BS us Bob!

We know You're Huntin SJ on a General Tag!

Hell Ya I'm RAZZIN You!

Remember some of your SMART-ASS Remarks you've made to me on the Campfire?:D












[font color="red"]From My Smokin Cherry Red Hot Barrel & My Dead Cold Hands I Shall go down Fighting for American Pride & Rights!
I Know I'm Out Numbered by Pusssies & Brainwashed Democrats that'll Throw Their Hands in the air & I know I can't Lick the U.S. Military by Myself when they Turn on us but I'll make
you one Guarantee,They'll be Enduring a Situation where I Hope to Hell All Americans become True Americans once again & Stand up for their Rights!
 
This year I drew mu 1st choice archery deer tag. Last year I drew my 4th choice archery deer tag. Kind of crazy to draw a 4th choice, but I did.
 
Well Bess I'm trying to start her out right. At least she will have some kind of tag to notch and being this is her first year, she doesn't know anything about unit boundaries. So she won't be just playing stupid if we get checked. So I've got that going for me as well.
 
She might get the surprise of her life, but at least she will have good odds of getting that 3 point or better she's hoping for.
 
utah doesn't manage general season units for 3 point or better, they manage for yearling bucks for us to get thrilled about to hunt. So dont let her set her sigths so High....but on another note I hope she kills a 200 inch buck.
 
I thought this got resolved a few years ago. I remember having a discussion in one of the RACs concerning this. Hopefully the Mule Deer committee will make some progress on this too. I guess my question is-- do most of the hunters want it to stay the way it is or change it so that anyone who puts in for a unit as their first choice has preference for that unit in spite of others who might have a better draw number and choose it as their 2nd 3rd choice etc. It seems to me that when someone puts in more than one choice they actually are increasing their odds of drawing-- almost like getting an extra preference point. ?
 
>Here is the way the general
>deer draw works.
>They take the highest point group
>and go through all of
>that point group's first choice
>(in order of lowest random
>#) and give them the
>tag if available
>They then look at that same
>group and go through their
>2nd choice and give them
>their tag if available
>They then look at that same
>group and go through their
>3rd choice and give them
>their tag if available
>They then look at that same
>group and go through their
>4th choice and give them
>their tag if available
>They then look at that same
>group and go through their
>5th choice and give them
>their tag if available
>
>They then drop to the next
>highest point group and proceed
>with the same sequence
>
>They repeat this until they hit
>the point group with 0
>points
>

How is this fair? now you have the people with the highest points getting units with there 2nd/3rd choice and still gaining a point that alot of people with lower points cant get as a first choice?

Or am I reading this wrong?


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
I just looked it up on the divisons website and elkmandan is right on how the tags are given out here is a link to the info.

http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting-in-utah/hunting-permits/681-utahs-hunting-permit-drawing

I feel this is not the way this should be handled. The only way your points should matter is with your first choice, after that your points should not have an effect on your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th choice and everyone should be pulled based on the number they recived in the random draw combined with there 2nd-5th choice.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
I guess I should have used my 3 preference points differently... I shouldn't have put a 1st choice general season and just put my Muzzy hunt on Boulder as a second choice. To me, I think I would have drawn the tag anyway, and still got a pref point for the future...

I think if the preference points have any effect on what unit you draw, they should be spent. If a guy has 3 preference points, doesn't get his 1st choice, but then his 3 preference points give him an advantage for his 2nd choice over guys with 2 points who put in for the same unit as 1st choice- his pref points should be spent.

I though that after ALL the first choices were done, then they went back to highest point pool and started with 2nd choices... Though there is still some advantage to higher pref points this way, a 2nd choice would never trump another guy's 1st choice.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
I agree with you Browning. I know of some youth hunters that didn't draw but others who put the same unit as a 2nd and even a 3rd choice drew the unit. It seems that the way the system is now that by putting 2nd, 3rd .... choices you actually increase your odds of drawing-- kind of like having more preference points.
 
First off, I don't agree with the system that Utah is using for the general season tags. No second choice tags should be issued before a first choice, if points are not going to be taken for the second choice. That being said, you guys need to read the rules and regulations. If you have kids and they are not drawing atleast every other year, you are doing them a disservice. If you play the game right they will get a tag every other year. Most of the time 2 out of 3 years. Fill all five choices in. Yes, you may have to put a muzz hunt as a choice. But if they draw a muzz hunt 2nd choice they still get a point for next year and they get to hunt. Then most likely they will will draw a rifle hunt next year because they gained a point just the same as if they had not drawn. Don't just put a rifle hunt first choice and leave the rest blank and be mad when they don't draw. Read the rules and play the game.
 
Nebo, The people in Fallon are doing nothing wrong when it comes to the general deer draw, they are simply conducting the draw the way our Wildlife Board created it.

The current system is a mess to say the least, the way it is now makes it to where hunters who know what is going on can manipulate the system to their advantage. I am one of those and will use my scenerio as an example.

Prior to this years draw I was asked by a family member if I would help on his Paunsaugunt rifle deer hunt(we knew he would draw with 16 points). Knowing that I would not be available to take my girlfriend hunting during the general rifle hunt due to both hunts having the same dates I decide to put her in for a muzzleloader tag. She had 1 point going into the draw and I knew the muzzy tag she was going to put in for could be drawn with 0 points. Not wanting to "waste" her point I put Thousand Lakes Any Weapon as her first choice knowing there was no chance she would pull the tag and then put Zion muzzy as her second choice knowing she would draw and still gain a point for next year.

Sure enough she drew her second choice(which was the hunt we wanted anyways) and now will have 2 points going into next years draw and if things do not change, next year I will put the hardest tag to draw as her first choice knowing she will not draw and then will put Zion any weapon as her second choice. She'll draw the Zion rifle tag and move up to the 3 point pool for the following year.

IMO Utah needs to overhaul the entire system for deer. As it is now you can have 4 different types of points for deer. LE, general, DH, and antlerless. I doubt it will change though, thats a lot of revenue in app fees. The simple solution to the general hunts mess would be to lose your points when you draw any of your choices.
 
I've hunted the unit that I wanted to hunt the past 4 years. Drew the unit I wanted again this year. 4 tags I wanted and 4 general preference points to go with them. That being said my son and wife both pulled their first choice this year. 3 points and 6 points burned. Looks like we will spend some time on the Thousand Lake and see if it's worth that many points this year. If not, we'll turn them back in and and get the points back. I'll let him use my tag through the mentor program and all will be good. The system does have some loopholes, but if you pay attention and play the game it can be to your benefit. Have had a deer tag in my pocket and sons for every single season in Utah for 25 years. Opportunity is there if you do your homework.
 

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