Do the Math.

[cantkillathing]

I have been trying to find 60's era buck to doe ratio. What someone has posted is in early 60's there were 42 bucks per 100 does on the northern region. I have my suspicion that 40 bucks per 100 does was probably what it was.

Lets do the math.

We currently have 289,000 deer in utah. Average 16 bucks per 100 does, that is 46,240 bucks.

Okay 289,000 - 46,240 = 242,760

If we had 40 bucks per 100 does like then we would see and increase of 24 bucks per 100 does.

take 242,760 X .24 = 58,262

Now add it all together

242,760 does/fawns + the original 16 bucks/ 46,240 + the additional 24 bucks 58,262 = 347,262

Tell me is 347,262 closer to what we use to have.

This is telling me that yes our does and fawns are down by 53,000 but our buck herd is down by 46,240 as well.

That is why the 60's rocked and I was born 3 decades to late.

 

[need4x4]

I'd say there were more deer in Utah in the 60's. Just going off the pictures my grandfather and others showed me.

Of course the ratio was better, but with the total population higher, well, it was worlds different.

Who knows what is the actual number. But, many people call BS on the current population figures also.

Looking at the other thread, the folks in Wyoming are up in arms about the decline is G. Then someone comes along and says that it is better in G than in all but a couple LE's in Utah.

Nothing new about that, but it gives an idea of the sharp contrast in Utah from the 60's compared to now.

 

[338boy]

THERE AIN'T NO 289,000 DEER IN UTAH!

AS I'VE SAID BEFORE ,OUR DEER HAVE BEEN COMPUTER MODLELED TO DEATH!

LITERALLY!

WHEN IS THE dwr GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH?

35 YEARS OF BAD MANAGEMENT!

35 LONG YEARS WITH NO ANSWERS!

BUCKS DON'T MAKE FAWNS

FAWNS MAKE BUCKS!

IF YOU WANT TO GET PAID FOR BEING WRONG YOUR WHOLE CAREER,
GO TO WORK FOR THE dwr, OR BE A WEATHER MAN!

 

[travishunter3006]

Try this math out for size....

DWR says that there are around 289,000 Deer in Utah...

My numbers do not include LE units...

hunters will kill about 23,000 deer this year (Including the few doe hunts that are still going to happen this year.)

DWR estimates the cougar population around 3000... All data and stats say a deer a week keeps the cat dentist away.. that is 156,000 deer a year there as well.

DWR states that for every road kill deer you see 7 more ran off and died out-of-sight. Road kill estimates (they actually keep count but not a perfect count) in 2011 the number came in right aronud 20,000 (72% were does..fun stat)

So if you are still following this:
Hunters: 23,000
Cougars: 156,000
Road Kill: 20,000
Total: 199,000 deer per year...

But wait Travishunter, you didn't account for coyotes and those that die of old age and those that are taken by retaded poachers.

hard to come by those numbers (oh ya don't forget the eagles)

I just think that the DWR is doing a fine job in Mule Deer reproduction seeing as how (based on their numbers) 2/3 of all the deer are killed every year yet that 1/3 manages to replace the 2/3.

Do the math...

 

[338boy]

dwr KEEPS RUNNING OFF HUNTERS!

THEN THEY GO TO THE LEGISLATURE FOR TAG INCREASES!

LESS TAGS!

CHARGE MORE!

GREAT BUSINESS MODEL!!


JUST SAYING!

 

[Deersman]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-26-12 AT 09:51PM (MST)[p]If we have almost 300,000 deer today then we used to have over 2 million in the 60's.

I think Travis is spot on.

Today I figure a little over 200,000 fawns are born per yr in Utah.

Where are they going?

Travis lays it out simply.

Predators and specifically cougar being the primary killer of deer per yr. I sure as hell don't believe 150,000+ deer are starving to death per yr due to poor habitat as the DWR would have you believe.

And the irony with the houndsmen and cougar bit is. The idiot houndsmen are shittin where they eat. They want maximum numbers of cougar and when they get it. More cougar results in less deer and soon after that less cougar. And I believe them today when they say cougar hunting is crappier today then they ever remember. As stated before cougar must be managed on a per deer basis not per acre basis. Personally I like 1 cougar for every 1000 deer.

 

[elkfromabove]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-12 AT 11:26AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-12 AT 11:12?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-12 AT 11:04?AM (MST)

>I have been trying to find
>60's era buck to doe
>ratio. What someone has
>posted is in early 60's
>there were 42 bucks per
>100 does on the northern
>region. I have my
>suspicion that 40 bucks per
>100 does was probably what
>it was.
>
>Lets do the math.
>
>We currently have 289,000 deer in
>utah. Average 16 bucks
>per 100 does, that is
>46,240 bucks.
>
>Okay 289,000 - 46,240 = 242,760
>
>
>If we had 40 bucks per
>100 does like then we
>would see and increase of
>24 bucks per 100 does.
>
>
>take 242,760 X .24 = 58,262
>
>
>Now add it all together
>
>242,760 does/fawns + the original 16
>bucks/ 46,240 + the additional
>24 bucks 58,262 =
>347,262
>
>Tell me is 347,262 closer to
>what we use to have.
>
>
>This is telling me that yes
>our does and fawns are
>down by 53,000 but our
>buck herd is down by
>46,240 as well.
>
>That is why the 60's rocked
>and I was born 3
>decades to late.

You apparently were too late for your math and logic (and English) classes as well! Ratios are not the same numbers as percentages. You can't assume statewide ratios based on only 20% of the data. You can't mix current and assumed (or actual) historical figures to calculate probable/possible current numbers. And you can't leave out outside conditions that impact the numbers, ie: weather, human encroachment, degrading habitat, etc.

Edited: Per www.wildlife.utah.gov/huntingbiggame/pdf/annual_reports/97_bg_report.pdf (Or go on the DWR website and type in "Annual Big Game Report 1997" in the search box on the top right hand side.)

There is no way that the buck to doe ratio in 1996 could have been 40/100. There were 53 deer management units then and most of them were under 16/100. The breakdown is as follows:
15 at 2/100 to 9/100 (Henry Mountains at 2/100)
23 at 10/100 to 15/100
3 at 16/100 to 20/100
6 at 21/100 to 30/100
0 at 31/100 to 40/100
2 at 41/100 to 50/100
1 at 52/100 (Kiaparowits)
3 No data

Where your 42/100 came from I'm not sure, but it may have been just one of the units or it was pre-season. In any case, your numbers mean absolutely nothing in relationship to the 2012 hunts.

Note that there were already 53 DEER (not HUNTER) management units with annual reports, detailed harvest numbers gathered from phone calls, objective numbers, problems and solutions.

Let's re-do the math! Or not!

Oh, And if you really like math as much as you seem to, check out page 15 of the report and get back to us!!

 

[elkfromabove]

>LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-12
>AT 11:26?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-12
>AT 11:12?AM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-12
>AT 11:04?AM (MST)
>
>>I have been trying to find
>>60's era buck to doe
>>ratio. What someone has
>>posted is in early 60's
>>there were 42 bucks per
>>100 does on the northern
>>region. I have my
>>suspicion that 40 bucks per
>>100 does was probably what
>>it was.
>>
>>Lets do the math.
>>
>>We currently have 289,000 deer in
>>utah. Average 16 bucks
>>per 100 does, that is
>>46,240 bucks.
>>
>>Okay 289,000 - 46,240 = 242,760
>>
>>
>>If we had 40 bucks per
>>100 does like then we
>>would see and increase of
>>24 bucks per 100 does.
>>
>>
>>take 242,760 X .24 = 58,262
>>
>>
>>Now add it all together
>>
>>242,760 does/fawns + the original 16
>>bucks/ 46,240 + the additional
>>24 bucks 58,262 =
>>347,262
>>
>>Tell me is 347,262 closer to
>>what we use to have.
>>
>>
>>This is telling me that yes
>>our does and fawns are
>>down by 53,000 but our
>>buck herd is down by
>>46,240 as well.
>>
>>That is why the 60's rocked
>>and I was born 3
>>decades to late.
>
>You apparently were too late for
>your math and logic (and
>English) classes as well! Ratios
>are not the same numbers
>as percentages. You can't assume
>statewide ratios based on only
>20% of the data. You
>can't mix current and assumed
>(or actual) historical figures to
>calculate probable/possible current numbers. And
>you can't leave out outside
>conditions that impact the numbers,
>ie: weather, human encroachment, degrading
>habitat, etc.
>
>Edited: Per www.wildlife.utah.gov/huntingbiggame/pdf/annual_reports/97_bg_report.pdf (Or go on
>the DWR website and type
>in "Annual Big Game Report
>1997" in the search box
>on the top right hand
>side.)
>
>There is no way that the
>buck to doe ratio in
>1996 could have been 40/100.
>There were 53 deer management
>units then and most of
>them were under 16/100. The
>breakdown is as follows:
>15 at 2/100 to 9/100 (Henry
>Mountains at 2/100)
>23 at 10/100 to 15/100
>3 at 16/100 to 20/100
>6 at 21/100 to 30/100
>0 at 31/100 to 40/100
>2 at 41/100 to 50/100
>1 at 52/100 (Kiaparowits)
>3 No data
>
>Where your 42/100 came from I'm
>not sure, but it may
>have been just one of
>the units or it was
>pre-season. In any case, your
>numbers mean absolutely nothing in
>relationship to the 2012 hunts.
>
>
>Note that there were already 53
>DEER (not HUNTER) management units
>with annual reports, detailed harvest
>numbers gathered from phone calls,
>objective numbers, problems and solutions.
>
>
>Let's re-do the math! Or not!
>
>
>Oh, And if you really like
>math as much as you
>seem to, check out page
>15 of the report and
>get back to us!!

Ooops! My bad! Wrong date. Even wrong decade. Sorry! But it is an interesting report don't you think? However, your math process and logic are still wrong, so I sent a GRAMA request for the 1962 Annual Report because that's the year we had the most hunters, though not quite the biggest harvest. As soon as it gets here by FAX, I'll reply.

 

[tx_packmule]

How was the hunting in the one that was 52/100?

 

[LOWCOUNTRY]

It used to be the place to be in the sixties and seventies it's terrible now. Per dwr count there are 400 deer there. I'd say I agree with that. Lots of ground just the deer are few and far in between. ( kaparowits)

 

[tx_packmule]

I was thinking it would be with the age structure and selection of bucks with that ratio.