DOES WHAT TARDS WANT MATTER???

elkassassin

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
39,685
My TUDE is this:

I Will Hunt Elk on the SJ just once in my Life!

I Might Be Hunting it with Fellow Hunters!

Or I Might be the Only TARD Hunting it as a Federal Park!

I Ain't Giving up 35 Years/20+ Points just to Have Some GREEDY Politicians/Tree Huggers/Bunny Humpers/Wolf Lovers/Enviro JACK-ASSES/Land Grabbers Tell Me Different!

TARDS Words Do & Should Matter!

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=41226620&ni...ll-shows-utahns-dont-want-bears-ears-monument











[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
It's owned by the Federal Government. Why should they care what the people of Utah want over what the people in Kali or New York want?
 
Hunt it as a Monument, just like Grand Staircase if you were to draw a Desert Sheep tag today.

If it's drilled within an inch of its life, there won't be anything left there to hunt. Then the oil market will eventually shift and we'll be left with a scarred landscape that a few guys made millions off of, and we'll have nothing else to show for it. Why do you think oil companies have given $100K to Rob Bishop this year alone? It isn't so you and I can hunt there.

As for me, I'll take the Monument.

Grizzly
 
>Hunt it as a Monument, just
>like Grand Staircase if you
>were to draw a Desert
>Sheep tag today.
>
>If it's drilled within an inch
>of its life, there won't
>be anything left there to
>hunt. Then the oil market
>will eventually shift and we'll
>be left with a scarred
>landscape that a few guys
>made millions off of, and
>we'll have nothing else to
>show for it. Why do
>you think oil companies have
>given $100K to Rob Bishop
>this year alone? It isn't
>so you and I can
>hunt there.
>
>As for me, I'll take the
>Monument.
>
>Grizzly

You Must be gonna Benefit from it being a Monument?

Please do SPLAIN?












[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-16 AT 07:53PM (MST)[p]elkassassin,

Absolutely not, I have no way to profit from the Bears Ears either way.

But I've read the PLI and I've read the proposed monument and I know the facts; not the fear-mongering laid out by those taking money from the ones that will actually profit from it.

Grizzly
 
It would be sad indeed if Bess's plans/dreams/schemes for an SJ pisscutter went up in smoke with the stroke of a lame duck president's pen! It would make me sad too.
 
>no

JUDAS Homer!

Hope You didn't Over Exert yourself with that Reply!












[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-16 AT 11:01PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-16 AT 10:49?PM (MST)

Monument does not mean you cannot hunt it for the last damn time. You're showing that tard part of yourself pretty good by feeding into fear mongering by politicians.
 
A 1.9 million acre National Monument with elk sounds like an ideal wolf refuge.

Just thinking ahead.
 
>A 1.9 million acre National Monument
>with elk sounds like an
>ideal wolf refuge.
>
>Just thinking ahead.

National Monument status has no effect on an elk herd, wildlife could still be managed by the state just like Grand Staircase. In reality, pillaging the land for extraction and development will affect the elk herd much worse, or they'll sell it off where you and I couldn't access the elk herd anyway. A Monument is clearly the best way to protect hunting access and wildlife.

As to Mexican wolves, if they were introduced and the ESA became part of the conversation, the National Monument has zero effect on that as well since the ESA has the exact same powers and authority regardless of whom owns/manages the land. The Feds have never said, "We need to save the Mexican wolf, too bad it's state and private land." They just use the ESA anyway because the ESA applies equally everywhere.

We didn't even get into the costs and liabilities of having to fight legal battles regarding plants, animals, drilling, air pollution, water pollution, etc... that now the state and private individual would have to pay for. It's a liability and nothing more.

When the facts are laid out, the wolf comments are another example of completely baseless fear-mongering being used by those that are literally taking hundreds of thousands of dollars to funnel our public land into the hands of a few that will make millions.

Grizzly
 
Elkass This is why I am so against shutting things down like they do. They inch and inch toward these things. this is what happens when u guys wanna start shutting these trails down. Before long they have everything shut down and we are stuck with this crap. I've been trying to explain this to u guys and u tell me I just want a road on every ridge but that's not the case. I just don't want to give an inch cause they take a mile everytime. I don't want a road on every ridge. However I don't feel like we need to shutdown every road either. Atv riders deserve to use the land too. Anyway I know most of you guys are selfish and want every ridge to yourself but that's not what public land is for. It's for everyone. This will further shut everyone out.
Be careful wat u wish for
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-16
>AT 11:01?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-16
>AT 10:49?PM (MST)
>
>Monument does not mean you cannot
>hunt it for the last
>damn time. You're showing that
>tard part of yourself pretty
>good by feeding into fear
>mongering by politicians.


He is old he doesn't want to hike 20 miles to get to the elk.
Gotta say the grand staircase is a joke!!! It's so stupid. Some of the ugliest most bland country out there and they shut it down to drilling mining etc.
 
>Hunt it as a Monument, just
>like Grand Staircase if you
>were to draw a Desert
>Sheep tag today.
>
>If it's drilled within an inch
>of its life, there won't
>be anything left there to
>hunt. Then the oil market
>will eventually shift and we'll
>be left with a scarred
>landscape that a few guys
>made millions off of, and
>we'll have nothing else to
>show for it. Why do
>you think oil companies have
>given $100K to Rob Bishop
>this year alone? It isn't
>so you and I can
>hunt there.
>
>As for me, I'll take the
>Monument.
>
>Grizzly

The staircase is retarded. It's such a waste of space. They could mine it and drill it and get
More used of it.

We don't want all these lands shut down. Tell me how drilling and mining takes a place to an inch of its life. Monuments are retarded!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-16
>AT 07:53?PM (MST)
>
>elkassassin,
>
>Absolutely not, I have no way
>to profit from the Bears
>Ears either way.
>
>But I've read the PLI and
>I've read the proposed monument
>and I know the facts;
>not the fear-mongering laid out
>by those taking money from
>the ones that will actually
>profit from it.
>
>Grizzly
Just like every other monument waste waste waste
What are the benefits of the staircase for real. Just millions of acres of land that no one can use because worthless. There is much area there that there is no reason to hike to. Believe
Me I know because I worked on it for a while and we had to hike into everything that we could have drove to without hurting anything.
Honestly explain to me the benefits
Of shutting this land down.
 
>Elkass This is why I am
>so against shutting things down
>like they do. They inch
>and inch toward these things.
>this is what happens when
>u guys wanna start shutting
>these trails down. Before long
>they have everything shut down
>and we are stuck with
>this crap. I've been trying
>to explain this to u
>guys and u tell me
>I just want a road
>on every ridge but that's
>not the case. I just
>don't want to give an
>inch cause they take a
>mile everytime. I don't want
>a road on every ridge.
>However I don't feel like
>we need to shutdown every
>road either. Atv riders deserve
>to use the land too.
>Anyway I know most of
>you guys are selfish and
>want every ridge to yourself
>but that's not what public
>land is for. It's for
>everyone. This will further shut
>everyone out.
>Be careful wat u wish for
>

You Callin Me Old ox?

GEEZUS!

Gonna be before I pull a Tag!:D

Maybe they'll have the Whole SOB'ing Thing Shut Down when I finally Draw!














[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
Funny stuff, shutting it all down, drill IT, mine it ,use it up, wolf refuges, inch by inch..

Maybe, just maybe there are a few forward thinkers that love the American West? A few people who have enough decency to care about the totally unthinkable fact that there might be someone around 50 or 100 years from now. Maybe they would love to have a small sliver of the west as we know it left to enjoy.? I mean the drilling and mining is always there, if you save it, it won't if you drill and mine it though.

Tards are a funny breed, a lot of it is convenient religion. Make loads of money, be materialistic, cause the church says it's ok. Have lots of children, cause there are lots of spirits waiting to visit. Use it up cause animals and land are all put here for the use of man, and never worry or care because prophecy will dictate what it is, so be happy don't worry.
so let's build and breed until all until all of Utah looks like the Wasatch front.
 
You can't hunt inside Cedar Breaks N.M., so don't say that can't happen to the Bears Ears.



There's always next year
 
Cedar Breaks is managed by the National Parks Service. Bear's Ears is managed by the BLM. Two different critters.

As for the OP, no, at this point, it doesn't matter. The proposal package has been delivered. Utah's objections have been delivered. All that remains is for Obama to decide what he's going to do. I'd bet he won't do squat before Nov. 8.

I suppose someone might believe that POTUS actually read the WB's recent letter and was deeply moved, but I somehow doubt that's the case.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-28-16 AT 03:42PM (MST)[p]Of course it goes all off topic into things like the ESA, conspiracy theories, and fear mongering based off of no facts but political BS fed to those who are just waiting to eat it up from the right side of the isle. Wait Obama was gonna take all your guns right? Now Hillary is right? Yet, here we are at the end of 8 years of Obama, and I haven't lost one gun. If at some point you can't see that in every situation a politician is feeding into your fears and giving you a big old helping of BS, you truly are a fool who believes whatever the hell your told. Bears Ears Monument is no different. Now people like Mike Lee and Rob Bishop who continually attack public lands are of course attacking any attempt to create another monument in our state.

Lets first look at the two Mr. Local control guys Mike Lee and Rob Bishop and see where there money is coming from to fund there campaigns shall we?

Mike Lee
-$191,652 Law firms
-$141,665 Oil&Gas
-$89,980 Lobbyists
-$87,445 Mining
-$86,707 Real Estate

Rob Bishop
-$134,100 from oil and gas
-$35,100 Law firms
-$20,599 Livestock industry
-$17,750 Mining

Both of them received over 60% of their campaign funding from outside the state of Utah, remember these are local advocates.

Those contributions aren't made without the expectation of a little back scratching in the other direction. Yeah, when you're bought and paid for its pretty easy to believe something and try to spread your ideology when your salary depends on it.

Directly from the Bears Ears proposal:
"Will I be able to hunt? Yes. Hunting will be allowed and permits will continue to be managed by the State of Utah?s Division of Wildlife Resources."

As grizzly said,if they want to introduce wolves they can do it. It doesn't need to be a monument for that to happen, nor for the ESA to take full affect on federal, state, and private land. Again, just fear mongering.

You won't be able to hunt? Better check the proposal because it state exactly that you will be able to hunt and the current status quo will continue for wildlife management. Grand Staircase is actually an amazing place, vital to the Pauns heard of deer, and I'm glad its protected. There is also ATV and truck trails everywhere down there and if your too lazy to walk between the hundreds of miles of roads down there, pick up the hobby of sitting on the couch and eating potato chips. GSENM has also been a NM for 20 years now and hunting is still allowed, and I've been able to fully access areas without one problem.....EVER. Oh you can't mine it? You can't bulldoze it down? Log what is basically useless timber from it? That just makes me sad as hell. Grazing has also continued on the monument.

You want to feed into fear mongering, that's your choice, but tard is the correct term for you if that's what you decide to do.
 
To start....my long range concerns are for the strength of our country. Natural resources are what makes and keeps a nation strong. They have to be exploitable regardless if we like to hunt.

Monument status is nothing more than a slap in the face to how our representative republic is supposed to work. It is a gift to the left wing special interests and uneducated and greedy outdoorsman. We can't have our cake and eat it too. Why do so many of us hate oil and mining business's??? They support entire communities when they aren't under constant assault.

Hunting was never allowed on NM's until Clinton started doing fullscale, park sized blocks of western land that were so undesirable to the surrounding communities that they put special provisions into monument status allowing other than the Park Service to manage them and allow things like hunting.....but those things are nothing but sweetener to get the status accepted. They can be lined out and canceled at the managers discretion....with no input from our representatives.

Monument status is bad for sportsman and the country in the long run....Mark my words.
 
...and...if you like or dislike monuments...get ready for a whole bunch of them in the next three months..

....one of the first big ones was Death Valley....declared by Herbert Hoover as payoff to the Sierra Club for less opposition to lake Mead.....
 
>To start....my long range concerns are
>for the strength of our
>country. Natural resources are what
>makes and keeps a nation
>strong. They have to be
>exploitable regardless if we like
>to hunt.
>
>Monument status is nothing more than
>a slap in the face
>to how our representative republic
>is supposed to work. It
>is a gift to the
>left wing special interests and
>uneducated and greedy outdoorsman. We
>can't have our cake and
>eat it too. Why do
>so many of us hate
>oil and mining business's??? They
>support entire communities when they
>aren't under constant assault.
>
>Hunting was never allowed on NM's
>until Clinton started doing fullscale,
>park sized blocks of western
>land that were so undesirable
>to the surrounding communities that
>they put special provisions into
>monument status allowing other than
>the Park Service to manage
>them and allow things like
>hunting.....but those things are nothing
>but sweetener to get the
>status accepted. They can be
>lined out and canceled at
>the managers discretion....with no input
>from our representatives.
>
>Monument status is bad for sportsman
>and the country in the
>long run....Mark my words.

Thanks for the Long Post Homer!

That's gotta be a Record for You!:D

Might even Make B&C!:D:D:D












[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
Dad got lung cancer. He didn't quit hunting, but with that little oxygen tank strapped to him 20 mile hikes were out. I hunt with the same guys I did as a kid, 1 pushing 80, couple mid 70's one mid 60. They aint hiking in 20 miles. All the wilderness designation does is seperate the land from the vast majority of those who use it.

If Rob Bishop, Mike Lee, Orrin Hatch had ANY balls at all they would get the other Western Senators and Congress to push a few more Wilderness areas. Start with Central Park. Then Perhaps Beverly Hills. Of course San Francisco needs a wilderness area.

But I do LOVE the Irony of all the Powerstroke drivers in here blowing black smoke all over that are in love with wilderness designation to "stop the oil and gas guys". I guess as long as its not your kids in in Humvees all over the middle east, your don't care where your gas comes from?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
ATTENTION!!!!

SOMEONE STOLE Homer's computer and is posting long, articulate posts!!! Not just classic one liners!!!


I miss Homer...
 
I have not been on here for a while. But as a 5th generation san juan resident I am disgusted with the way the National Monument is being presented, with lies. The Native American people that live here do not want the National Monument, but with the funding from outsided entities that allowed environmentalist to bus in loads of people to show the support for the NM is disgusting.
I am not in favor of the PLI either, this is a crappy deal in the making as well. Bihop, and Chaffetz ideas are not very good, and failed to listen to the people in san juan area.
I have a hard time understanding why anything needs to change, its not broken, so why are we trying to fix problems that dont exist?
 
cantkillathing, that's a good point about not trying to fix something that isn't broken.

The NM proponents are building their posse of non-locals, while the NM opponents act like those that live in Blanding have the final say regarding lands that belong to all Americans (see Lyman's Ride for an example).

Both sides are trying to stack the deck with faulty arguments. It should probably just be left alone.

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-16 AT 01:48PM (MST)[p]Cantkillathing, I agree with you. However a monument will not be the end of access, will not end San Juan County, and will probably never result in a new national park like some want to fear longer about. To everyone complaining about people not liking the oil and gas industry, consider the fact less than 10% of our land is protected from it, less than 10% of land is a national park, wilderness area, national monument, or wildlife refuge. For everyone complaining about DC overeach, 10% of land that is still accessible to the public just not to industry is not where a fight to DC is relevant. That means over 90% of land mass in our country is still open to industry, I'm sorry I don't feel bad for the oil and gas industry.

Back to cantkillanything, I agree the BLM is doing a decent job, the PLI is a joke and a monument designation is not needed so long as the state never gets a hold of the land. The problem cantkillanything is the state is pushing for federal lands to be turned over to them for whatever they want to do with them, which even further makes a monument designation more likely. If it's designated, life will go on, much like it does today. A monument designation isn't going to affect the area as much as some politicians want you to belive.
 
You pro wilderness guys are fools! There is no reason to make these monuments.
Its sad you guys are so blind to what's going on. I also disagree the locals should have the final say they have to live near it!
Some guy in California that's never gonna go there shouldn't have a dam say in it.
This country is just getting stupid!! You guys don't realize you are losing freedoms
Left and right quit making it easier and fight this crap! Wake the phreak up!!
 
Use the grand staircase for example! It's the biggest waste of land I've ever seen! Most of it is just wasteland and useless. No animals no nothing it's not even scenic on most of it.
 
>You pro wilderness guys are fools!
>There is no reason to
>make these monuments.
>Its sad you guys are so
>blind to what's going on.
>I also disagree the locals
>should have the final say
>they have to live near
>it!
>Some guy in California that's never
>gonna go there shouldn't have
>a dam say in it.
>
>This country is just getting stupid!!
>You guys don't realize you
>are losing freedoms
>Left and right quit making it
>easier and fight this crap!
>Wake the phreak up!!

I Asked You a Question ox?

Did You Participate in the SJ Wheeler Ride?












[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
Ox you sound like the classic "tard". The reason for monuments is certainty they will be protected in perpetuity no matter who is president, no matter who is the secretary of interior, no mater what local politician wants to strip out of the land. No matter what tard like yourself can't contemplate the fact some things have more value than money. Land doesn't have to constantly economically justify its existence. If people such as yourself had gotten there way throughout history the society and world we live in today would suck and be in a much worse situation in every way. Stupid, is pissing through every resource, bulldozing a road down every ridge, an oil pad on every acre, mine every place possible, and not conserving anywhere for the future. As I said, the amount of land protected in this country is a small percentage and the fact that people like your self are bitching and moaning over it just shows how selfish and "stupid" you are. It shows you don't know the facts, have no vision for the future, no thoughts for future generations, and believe pissing through resources and using them as fast as possible is somehow "conservative" and wise. Ox, thank god we didn't have people like you building the foundation and future of the country we live in today or we might not be here. Luckily most Americans see the value in these lands and wildlife, and will leave future generations with a brighter future than you would.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-16 AT 10:14PM (MST)[p]...you are an idealistic utopian tool oneye....open the other one.
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-16 AT 10:20PM (MST)[p]>Use the grand staircase for example!
>It's the biggest waste of
>land I've ever seen! Most
>of it is just wasteland
>and useless. No animals no
>nothing it's not even scenic
>on most of it.


...other than the vast amounts of low sulphur coal now off limits

google feinsteins relationship to that
 
Idealism built this country, and it will advance it into the future as well. With 7 billion people in this world and counting, it's gonna take a lot of idealism to ensure this generation and future ones a good world to live in. Go ahead though, stay in your century old school of thought, the society will move forward and leave you there. The problem with places like San Juan county is they don't want to change in a changing world. They want to stay the same in a world that is not the same. Time to move forward with thought not stay stuck where you are, the world isn't going to wait for you or San Juan county, the world will just keep moving on. Garfish on www.utahwildlife.net said it best in his post about Paunguitch regarding bitterness over the GSENM:

Quote from GaryFish
"Perhaps the biggest shift is that in all resource industries - logging, farming, ranching, and mining - are now working in a global marketplace. And the efficiency of location for the best possible places to grow/cut/extract comes into much stronger play. Garfield County timber operations must compete with Russian, Canadian, and Alaskan operations, not to mention South American. Same with cattle. Heck, no place in Utah can even begin to compete with grazing lands in Montana, Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas, let alone internationally. And digging up substandard coal that is so deep that even in the best of conditions wouldn't be economically feasible - especially in a global energy situation that is pushing away from coal just doesn't make sense. But to those that seldom cross the Payson-Dixon line, let alone the state boundaries, it is not comprehendable.

I love the many small towns like Panguitch. I grew up in an Idaho version of Panguitch. These are amazing places. But if they want to survive, they are going to have to re-define themselves away from what Grandpa did. Because what Grandpa did isn't going to cut it in a global economy. And that doesn't mean that Grandpa isn't awesome or a hard worker or one of the best men you'll ever meet. Just means that if we don't adapt, then someone will have to turn off the lights after Grandpa dies."
 
>Idealism built this country, and it
>will advance it into the
>future as well. With 7
>billion people in this world
>and counting, it's gonna take
>a lot of idealism to
>ensure this generation and future
>ones a good world to
>live in. Go ahead though,
>stay in your century old
>school of thought, the society
>will move forward and leave
>you there. The problem with
>places like San Juan county
>is they don't want to
>change in a changing world.
>They want to stay the
>same in a world that
>is not the same. Time
>to move forward with thought
>not stay stuck where you
>are, the world isn't going
>to wait for you or
>San Juan county, the world
>will just keep moving on.
>Garfish on www.utahwildlife.net said it
>best in his post about
>Paunguitch regarding bitterness over the
>GSENM:
>
>Quote from GaryFish
>"Perhaps the biggest shift is that
>in all resource industries -
>logging, farming, ranching, and mining
>- are now working in
>a global marketplace. And the
>efficiency of location for the
>best possible places to grow/cut/extract
>comes into much stronger play.
>Garfield County timber operations must
>compete with Russian, Canadian, and
>Alaskan operations, not to mention
>South American. Same with cattle.
>Heck, no place in Utah
>can even begin to compete
>with grazing lands in Montana,
>Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas, let
>alone internationally. And digging up
>substandard coal that is so
>deep that even in the
>best of conditions wouldn't be
>economically feasible - especially in
>a global energy situation that
>is pushing away from coal
>just doesn't make sense. But
>to those that seldom cross
>the Payson-Dixon line, let alone
>the state boundaries, it is
>not comprehendable.
>
>I love the many small towns
>like Panguitch. I grew up
>in an Idaho version of
>Panguitch. These are amazing places.
>But if they want to
>survive, they are going to
>have to re-define themselves away
>from what Grandpa did. Because
>what Grandpa did isn't going
>to cut it in a
>global economy. And that doesn't
>mean that Grandpa isn't awesome
>or a hard worker or
>one of the best men
>you'll ever meet. Just means
>that if we don't adapt,
>then someone will have to
>turn off the lights after
>Grandpa dies."

You read a lot of neo hippie BS propaganda, then you read more. Texas is sending empty flatbeds into Utah with no contracts to buy hay because their under extreme drought. I guess those small towns in Montana, Alaska, Russia its OK to do what grandpa did, but not in Panguitch?
Globalism is pretty successful. We should stop ALL our own resource development. Then we can send more of our kids to foreign soil in humvees to protect shipping lanes, and waterways like we do with oil. The answer ISN'T make small logging towns, coal towns etc into ghost towns so that a tiny minority can feel like they "did something important" and "saved the land" from the dumbazz backwards hicks that have lived there for generations.
Its not to continue to push our "influence" into other tiny countries at the point of a gun. The reason its cheaper to buy Argentinian beef and have it shipped all the way here, is because we allow the goverment to be involved in ranching. Same with coal, steel, etc. The government has systematically found a way to **** up everything it has touched, YET, we are supposed to have blind faith that they can take care of land? Where is that working for you?
As hunters, fishermen, we KNOW that when you put a value to an animal, you get more of those animals. Elk, bears, moose, etc have thrived because we value them. The same is true of land. Cutting off vast stretches of the American west to "save it", makes it valueless to the majority of westerners. If monument designation was such a great tool, there would be monuments all over the country. There aren't. And if Utah was a swing state, it wouldn't be talked about.
Funny how this land has survived since before the white devil showed up, YET in 2016 suddenly its going to be "saved".
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
>>Idealism built this country, and it
>>will advance it into the
>>future as well. With 7
>>billion people in this world
>>and counting, it's gonna take
>>a lot of idealism to
>>ensure this generation and future
>>ones a good world to
>>live in. Go ahead though,
>>stay in your century old
>>school of thought, the society
>>will move forward and leave
>>you there. The problem with
>>places like San Juan county
>>is they don't want to
>>change in a changing world.
>>They want to stay the
>>same in a world that
>>is not the same. Time
>>to move forward with thought
>>not stay stuck where you
>>are, the world isn't going
>>to wait for you or
>>San Juan county, the world
>>will just keep moving on.
>>Garfish on www.utahwildlife.net said it
>>best in his post about
>>Paunguitch regarding bitterness over the
>>GSENM:
>>
>>Quote from GaryFish
>>"Perhaps the biggest shift is that
>>in all resource industries -
>>logging, farming, ranching, and mining
>>- are now working in
>>a global marketplace. And the
>>efficiency of location for the
>>best possible places to grow/cut/extract
>>comes into much stronger play.
>>Garfield County timber operations must
>>compete with Russian, Canadian, and
>>Alaskan operations, not to mention
>>South American. Same with cattle.
>>Heck, no place in Utah
>>can even begin to compete
>>with grazing lands in Montana,
>>Nebraska, Oklahoma and Texas, let
>>alone internationally. And digging up
>>substandard coal that is so
>>deep that even in the
>>best of conditions wouldn't be
>>economically feasible - especially in
>>a global energy situation that
>>is pushing away from coal
>>just doesn't make sense. But
>>to those that seldom cross
>>the Payson-Dixon line, let alone
>>the state boundaries, it is
>>not comprehendable.
>>
>>I love the many small towns
>>like Panguitch. I grew up
>>in an Idaho version of
>>Panguitch. These are amazing places.
>>But if they want to
>>survive, they are going to
>>have to re-define themselves away
>>from what Grandpa did. Because
>>what Grandpa did isn't going
>>to cut it in a
>>global economy. And that doesn't
>>mean that Grandpa isn't awesome
>>or a hard worker or
>>one of the best men
>>you'll ever meet. Just means
>>that if we don't adapt,
>>then someone will have to
>>turn off the lights after
>>Grandpa dies."
>
>You read a lot of neo
>hippie BS propaganda, then you
>read more. Texas is
>sending empty flatbeds into Utah
>with no contracts to buy
>hay because their under extreme
>drought. I guess those
>small towns in Montana, Alaska,
>Russia its OK to do
>what grandpa did, but not
>in Panguitch?
>Globalism is pretty successful. We
>should stop ALL our own
>resource development. Then we
>can send more of our
>kids to foreign soil in
>humvees to protect shipping lanes,
>and waterways like we do
>with oil. The answer
>ISN'T make small logging towns,
>coal towns etc into ghost
>towns so that a tiny
>minority can feel like they
>"did something important" and "saved
>the land" from the dumbazz
>backwards hicks that have lived
>there for generations.
>Its not to continue to push
>our "influence" into other tiny
>countries at the point of
>a gun. The reason
>its cheaper to buy Argentinian
>beef and have it shipped
>all the way here, is
>because we allow the goverment
>to be involved in ranching.
> Same with coal, steel,
>etc. The government has
>systematically found a way to
>**** up everything it has
>touched, YET, we are supposed
>to have blind faith that
>they can take care of
>land? Where is that
>working for you?
>As hunters, fishermen, we KNOW that
>when you put a value
>to an animal, you get
>more of those animals.
>Elk, bears, moose, etc have
>thrived because we value them.
> The same is true
>of land. Cutting off
>vast stretches of the American
>west to "save it", makes
>it valueless to the majority
>of westerners. If monument
>designation was such a great
>tool, there would be monuments
>all over the country.
>There aren't. And if
>Utah was a swing state,
>it wouldn't be talked about.
>
>Funny how this land has survived
>since before the white devil
>showed up, YET in 2016
>suddenly its going to be
>"saved".
>"The only thing that stops a
>bad guy with a gun
>is a good guy with
>a gun"

The government has systematically found a way to **** up everything it has touched

YUP!








[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-16 AT 09:28AM (MST)[p]Did you read the post? I never said you can do it in hickville Montana and not hickville Utah. The reason other areas are better suited for an industry based on something like loggin or cattle grazing is due to location. Livestock production can be done much better, more efficiently, and at a higher profit yield in somewhere like Montana, than a dry dusty desert like Utah. Less than .5% of cattle ever touch Utah public lands, the entire public land grazing industry in Utah could disappear tomorrow and our country wouldn't miss it. Timber in places like Oregon, Idaho, and South America far outperfrom the production of what Utah timber can ever bring to the world and are also more cost effective and beneficial to the companies and workers involved. Places like Panguich are nothing in the world of a global economy where profit rules all, and efficiency is key. The free market is what has shut out small places like Panguich that cannot produce in our current world economy, not a few monuments that make up less than 5% of land mass in the US. You want to talk about drought maybe you should look at Utah where the Great Salt Lake is at its lowest level in history, proposals to draw more water out of it for new resevoirs are in the works, population growth isn't stopping anytime soon, and agriculture uses up 82% of that water every year. Yeah the world survived until now, but the west is drying up. Calfornia is in extreme drought, Lake Mead is drying up, the GSL is drying up, even where I live our fresh water spring that feeds our town dropped signifigantly in production this year. Yeah the world made it until now, but we are so obviously headed down a bad path that is going to absolutly need forward thinkers, not backward ones. When you're face is on a mountain instead of Theodore Roosevelts Hossblur, then I'll take you seriously, but no one has ever remembered the people who did nothing for land, or those who stripped it of everything it had as fast as they could. True visonaries are the ones who are remembered because they were vital to our countries future, you're not one of them, so keep preaching the same crap the minority of selfish people throughout history have preached and get looked at as the selfish person you are. In a world full of development, wilderness will absolutly be one of the most valuable things going forward. Also hossblur, I live in a town of about 1,000 people, and the biggest town around us is about 7,000 people. I live in a community completely reliant on a coal mine on federal land. I know what a place like the places I talk about are like. There is a refusal to change, adapt, and move on, and one day when that coal mine runs dry or is shut down so will our area, because no one found a more reliable economic base for our community and future generations. It's a ridiculous way to look forward. It's boom and bust, and one day its just going to be bust.
 
>The government has systematically found a
>way to **** up everything
>it has touched
>
>YUP!
>


Yup! Especially the utarded Mormon government.
 
Homer, you lost all credibility when you sank to calling somebody you disagree with an idealistic utopian tool. You obviously need some education on the coal industry. Like people keep telling you about Bears Ears and how the ESA would apply regardless of who owns the land, the coal industry is dying because of federal decisions made under completely different jurisdiction (clean air and clean water laws). GSNM coal could be sitting on the surface in piles and the federal government could still make it unusable.

But Rob Bishop isn't trying to change those laws to "stop federal overreach" and allow the use of coal which would save Wyoming and West Virginia. He just wants to sell the land... which will do absolutely nothing about curing the "overreach" problems he talks about. The legal term is a 'red herring'. It's a smoke and mirrors game.

Theox, you also lost credibility when you called those you disagree with "fools".

It's sad when a grown person can't even have a discussion without name-calling, especially when Oneye has been so concise, specific, and factual with his posts. It's pretty obvious who has done their homework and who is just angry and filled with emotion

Grizzly
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-16
>AT 09:28?AM (MST)
>
>Did you read the post? I
>never said you can do
>it in hickville Montana and
>not hickville Utah. The reason
>other areas are better suited
>for an industry based on
>something like loggin or cattle
>grazing is due to location.
>Livestock production can be done
>much better, more efficiently, and
>at a higher profit yield
>in somewhere like Montana, than
>a dry dusty desert like
>Utah. Less than .5% of
>cattle ever touch Utah public
>lands, the entire public land
>grazing industry in Utah could
>disappear tomorrow and our country
>wouldn't miss it. Timber in
>places like Oregon, Idaho, and
>South America far outperfrom the
>production of what Utah timber
>can ever bring to the
>world and are also more
>cost effective and beneficial to
>the companies and workers involved.
>Places like Panguich are nothing
>in the world of a
>global economy where profit rules
>all, and efficiency is key.
>The free market is what
>has shut out small places
>like Panguich that cannot produce
>in our current world economy,
>not a few monuments that
>make up less than 5%
>of land mass in the
>US. You want to talk
>about drought maybe you should
>look at Utah where the
>Great Salt Lake is at
>its lowest level in history,
>proposals to draw more water
>out of it for new
>resevoirs are in the works,
>population growth isn't stopping anytime
>soon, and agriculture uses up
>82% of that water every
>year. Yeah the world survived
>until now, but the west
>is drying up. Calfornia is
>in extreme drought, Lake Mead
>is drying up, the GSL
>is drying up, even where
>I live our fresh water
>spring that feeds our town
>dropped signifigantly in production this
>year. Yeah the world made
>it until now, but we
>are so obviously headed down
>a bad path that is
>going to absolutly need forward
>thinkers, not backward ones. When
>you're face is on a
>mountain instead of Theodore Roosevelts
>Hossblur, then I'll take you
>seriously, but no one has
>ever remembered the people who
>did nothing for land, or
>those who stripped it of
>everything it had as fast
>as they could. True visonaries
>are the ones who are
>remembered because they were vital
>to our countries future, you're
>not one of them, so
>keep preaching the same crap
>the minority of selfish people
>throughout history have preached and
>get looked at as the
>selfish person you are. In
>a world full of development,
>wilderness will absolutly be one
>of the most valuable things
>going forward. Also hossblur, I
>live in a town of
>about 1,000 people, and the
>biggest town around us is
>about 7,000 people. I live
>in a community completely reliant
>on a coal mine on
>federal land. I know what
>a place like the places
>I talk about are like.
>There is a refusal to
>change, adapt, and move on,
>and one day when that
>coal mine runs dry or
>is shut down so will
>our area, because no one
>found a more reliable economic
>base for our community and
>future generations. It's a ridiculous
>way to look forward. It's
>boom and bust, and one
>day its just going to
>be bust.


Your way of thinking is bs! Just to touch on the cattle part yes it would miss Utah beef! You know who would in the country all the ranchers in Utah! You could say that about a lot of states however take a small one over and over and u create a large problem. Maybe on a large scale yes the world could get by but in a local scale it can't!
I couldn't finish reading the rest of your crap it's as bad alistening to Obama
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-16 AT 12:00PM (MST)[p]Ox, it's too bad you choose to ignore facts. They stare you right in the face and since you cannot refute them and you know they're true, you chose to ignore them or not even read them as you stated in your post. How do you expect to have an intelligent argument when you don't even look at the information you are presented with? Ignoring something doesn't make you right or wise, it makes you a blissful fool. You have no facts, you only have opinions based off false logic, political rhetoric, and not accepting hard realities. Everything I said is true, has been studied, and is verifiable. The free market I'm sure you think is so great is the very market that allows giant corporations to rig the system in their favor shutting the little guy down and eating up all his profit without a second thought. 80% of the beef in this country is raised by only 3 giant corporations. Those corporations want the whole market and profits from the industry not 80% of it. They free market is just that. Those 3 corporations will kill the other 20% eventually and that's just how the system you love so much works. By your Obama rhetoric I can tell your intelligence is based only on political party lines and believing whatever some politician told you, that's fine I guess but it doesn't make you intelligent or right. If you want to be a puppet to the politicians who feed your mind, go ahead.

The bottom line is the west that was, is no more. Aside from social issues in today's world, the west is drying up, and also dealing with invasive species like cheat grass like never before. If you don't believe those things should affect future decisions on land use, youre just willing to argue a point that has no case. You're arguments end result will be leaving your kids with less wild land, less wildlife, less water security, less food security, and in the end less economic security when all the water dries up and the grass is gone. As I said, just look at lake and reservoir levels to see where we are headed, and people like yourself would rather ignore the problem, and pass it on in terrible shape to the next generation. In my local area both reservoirs that feed our communities farmland are basically dried up and are nothing more than a thin stream running through them. Springs I've never seen stop running don't have any water coming out of them this year. Utah lake and the Great Salt Lake are at their lowest levels in history. How someone can sit back the mounting pressures of population growth and land development and think everything is a-ok is incomprehensible to me and just shows how much they want to deny reality for their convenience of feeling good about doing whatever we can to get economic wealth at all costs. It's short sighted, selfish, and what will end in the destruction of future generations. Get out of your world of fantasy and step into reality.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Aug-29-16
>AT 10:20?PM (MST)
>
>>Use the grand staircase for example!
>>It's the biggest waste of
>>land I've ever seen! Most
>>of it is just wasteland
>>and useless. No animals no
>>nothing it's not even scenic
>>on most of it.
>
>
>...other than the vast amounts of
>low sulphur coal now off
>limits
>
>google feinsteins relationship to that


Well that's way I was getting at. As a monument it's worthless.
 
I appreciate the thoughtful accurate posts by oneye and grizzly. You are both right on, and it'd easy to see you love the west and care enough to want to see some of those intrinsic values preserved for future generations.
I don't have near enough patience to try and explain my thoughts to most people, I'm getting old I guess. Thanks for putting into words how I feel about a lot of things. + 1. As they say
 
Hey ox?

Did You?

Or Did You Not Participate in the SJ Wheeler Ride?









[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
Hossblur wrote:
>As hunters, fishermen, we KNOW that
>when you put a value
>to an animal, you get
>more of those animals.
>Elk, bears, moose, etc have
>thrived because we value them.
> The same is true
>of land. Cutting off
>vast stretches of the American
>west to "save it", makes
>it valueless to the majority
>of westerners.

Hoss, I don't think it is accurate to say it "makes [the land] valueless". That might be too broad of a brush you're using to paint with. I agree, it shifts value, sometimes radically, and can harshly impact those physically closest to the land. But it certainly is not suddenly without value.

I am ambivalent about the issue, and don't have a dog in the fight. I work in SLC in a global corporation that has nothing to do with resources or environmentalism. I value access to the land, I value responsible resource extraction, but I also value preservation of special places. Yet I detest some of the stupid decisions made along the way (like locking up the low-sulfur coal and it's tiny footprint in making the GSENM). I hate the roadblocks on timber harvest. Yes, 1eye, OR and WA may produce more timber per acer per year, but that does NOT make UT timber without value, or the most efficient/economical option for UT home construction. There was just no reason to cause the closing of virtually ALL mills.

Anyway, I digress, back to my comment.

Tourists and travelers in 2014 spent almost $8 Billion. Yes, Billion with a B. The majority of that was due to the number and grandeur of the national parks, and now the GSENM. Those are HUGE drivers, in addition to the skiing. That resulted in $1.09 Billion (not million, Billion) in local and state tax revenue. And now the claim is that those lands are valueless? I get that they are valueless to the miner, oil worker, etc that don't have a quick way to shift into tourism or other economic driver, but that does not mean the land becomes valueless to westerners.

In fact, the preserved land just might become more valuable in real economic measures overall. It is simply a shifting (albeit painful one for many) of where the value is. Coal and oil will eventually go the way of the steam engine, but it is unlikely that the National Parks will loose their attraction over time. Esp the incredible places that UT has to offer that the rest of the world is in awe of. Not sure of Bear's Ear falls in that category or not though. Don't know enough about the area.
 
Piper -

Hijacking a hunting post to show your anti-Mormon ignorance, nice job! Feel free to move to China if you don't like the freedom to have however many kids you want. Also, I would recommend you listen to the the Mormon's prophet in the coming years...actually, never mind...don't.

Try to stay on topic in your old age.

-WB
 
>Hossblur wrote:
>>As hunters, fishermen, we KNOW that
>>when you put a value
>>to an animal, you get
>>more of those animals.
>>Elk, bears, moose, etc have
>>thrived because we value them.
>> The same is true
>>of land. Cutting off
>>vast stretches of the American
>>west to "save it", makes
>>it valueless to the majority
>>of westerners.
>
>Hoss, I don't think it is
>accurate to say it "makes
>[the land] valueless". That
>might be too broad of
>a brush you're using to
>paint with. I agree,
>it shifts value, sometimes radically,
>and can harshly impact those
>physically closest to the land.
> But it certainly is
>not suddenly without value.
>
>I am ambivalent about the issue,
>and don't have a dog
>in the fight. I
>work in SLC in a
>global corporation that has nothing
>to do with resources or
>environmentalism. I value access to
>the land, I value responsible
>resource extraction, but I also
>value preservation of special places.
> Yet I detest some
>of the stupid decisions made
>along the way (like locking
>up the low-sulfur coal and
>it's tiny footprint in making
>the GSENM). I hate the
>roadblocks on timber harvest. Yes,
>1eye, OR and WA may
>produce more timber per acer
>per year, but that does
>NOT make UT timber without
>value, or the most efficient/economical
>option for UT home construction.
>There was just no reason
>to cause the closing of
>virtually ALL mills.
>
>Anyway, I digress, back to my
>comment.
>
>Tourists and travelers in 2014 spent
>almost $8 Billion. Yes,
>Billion with a B.
>The majority of that was
>due to the number and
>grandeur of the national parks,
>and now the GSENM.
>Those are HUGE drivers, in
>addition to the skiing. That
>resulted in $1.09 Billion (not
>million, Billion) in local and
>state tax revenue. And
>now the claim is that
>those lands are valueless?
>I get that they are
>valueless to the miner, oil
>worker, etc that don't have
>a quick way to shift
>into tourism or other economic
>driver, but that does not
>mean the land becomes valueless
>to westerners.
>
>In fact, the preserved land just
>might become more valuable in
>real economic measures overall.
>It is simply a shifting
>(albeit painful one for many)
>of where the value is.
>Coal and oil will eventually
>go the way of the
>steam engine, but it is
>unlikely that the National Parks
>will loose their attraction over
>time. Esp the incredible
>places that UT has to
>offer that the rest of
>the world is in awe
>of. Not sure of
>Bear's Ear falls in that
>category or not though.
>Don't know enough about the
>area.

How much of your billions were spend specifically by the offroad industry and those who go to Utah for the epic off road and and 4 Wheel Drive opportunities? Sorry but Unless you count out those folks you can not really claim that Parks and Wilderness areas generated all that money. Just Easter Jeep Safari Alone has to be the single largest mass migration and visitation weekend in the state. There is probably not another single event that brings in the shear number of people and the amount of money that brings in....

How many of those who raft/float the river also value an ATV ride on a Jeep Trip?

How many of those visitors were at Lake Powell on a boat?

Sorry but no place in your comment to account for tourist who value access over wilderness.
 
>Sorry but no place in your
>comment to account for tourist
>who value access over wilderness.

How so? Where did I say, or even insinuate such? ??? I think your pet peeve is showing a bit to infer I said, feel, or think anything of the such. Do you just hate any areas being set aside, or what?

Not my Billions, it's counted by the State's Office of Tourism. You can ask them for details if you wish to have a factually based opinion on how much value NP, NM, Skiing, and Off-roading contribute to tourism dollars.

However, it is clear that the state thinks the "mighty 5" are the primary driver. And that is their primary marketing campaign, for which they have measured $ spent, and correlated direct increases in visits/spending. The state is very clear they think the NPs are major tourism economic drivers.

Single largest migration in a weekend? Probably so, I'll take your word for it. However . . . that is one weekend, whereas Zion's alone records about 3 million visitors a year. That's about 58,000 a week. Are there really more than 58,000 attendees at the aforementioned Safari?
 
Any ski weekend in SLC brings more money to the state than the Jeep Safari. And that doesn't even include the millions spent on ski vacation homes in Park City every year.

Grizzly
 
Oneye,

I noticed that you walked a pretty wide circle to not talk about the ammount of petroleum that comes out of Utah. You talk about coal, but its not run out, its become political. The biggest unit in Utah hunts on top of Skyline coal mine in Fairview, and no one knows it, it hasn't hurt anything other than worm holes. Same is true of the Salina mines. Those mines support a ton of guys in Sanpete, Sevier, and Emery county. It supports Barney trucking to Juab. It supports the Delta power plant. Unless your turning of S. California electric, it ain't going no where.

You also walk that same wide circle on "future" jobs. I-15 runs down the center of Utah. No buisness can locate in Emery and be viable simply because of shipping. I'm not sure your age, but I aint that old, and I have seen rivers going down state street in SLC. I saw the lake swallow most of west weber and davis county. The mistake you and Al Gore make is to think that "climate change" is a one way street.

Lastly. YOU WILL GET OLD. Hopefully you never get sick. Neither of those things suddenly make you less a citizen than you are now. That land is either ALL of the citizens, or we just as well fence it off and sell it. "Protecting" that land, from the vast majority of the citizens, does indeed make it non valuable to all other than a tiny minority that can backback in.

Again, I find it ironic that the people who live there, whose parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc lived there, and have "protected" that land all these hundreds of years, now need you and Obama to "protect" it.


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Well!

After asking ox about 20 times now rather He Participated in the SJ Wheeler Ride & He Never Answers,what You Guys Think?

I'll bet He was Destroying Riparian & Artifacts like No other?

You Coulda Answered me long ago ox!











[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
> Well!
>
>After asking ox about 20 times
>now rather He Participated in
>the SJ Wheeler Ride &
>He Never Answers,what You Guys
>Think?
>
>I'll bet He was Destroying Riparian
>& Artifacts like No other?
>
>
>You Coulda Answered me long ago
>ox!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>in to be Hillary's
>Intern[/font]
>
>

You are sooo dramatic! No I didn't participate. If it was closer I sure would have. I already privately messaged you my stance on things and u didn't respond. Anyway you may just get what u wish for. Have fun on the Bears ears monument elk hunt!
 
Hossblur I live in Sevier County, I understand what SUFCO is to my community. The bottom line is though, it is not a reliable future. It's time the county commissioners in these areas accept that. It doesn't matter what your opinion is the fact and reality is our nation is moving away from it. Stubbornness and a willingness to get left behind by leadership in these areas is what is putting the final nail in the coffin for areas like where I live. The mine around Salina just got approved by the BLM to mine a bunch more coal, so our area has bought some time, but instead of kicking the can down the road to our kids and giving them the same problems we faced, start building a more reliable economy that isn't boom and bust and relying on something that has a future of certain death. I don't discount the importance of these things today, but the writing is on the wall and they are not a reliable economy moving forward. Opinions, political rhetoric, and stubbornness are not going to change or help the situation. It's time to slowly start changing. Staying attached to the past, just gets you left there. Time to innovate, change our economies, and look toward a bright future in some of these areas without them relying so heavily on coal and minerals.
 
>> Well!
>>
>>After asking ox about 20 times
>>now rather He Participated in
>>the SJ Wheeler Ride &
>>He Never Answers,what You Guys
>>Think?
>>
>>I'll bet He was Destroying Riparian
>>& Artifacts like No other?
>>
>>
>>You Coulda Answered me long ago
>>ox!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>>in to be Hillary's
>>Intern[/font]
>>
>>
>
>You are sooo dramatic! No I
>didn't participate. If it was
>closer I sure would have.
>I already privately messaged you
>my stance on things and
>u didn't respond. Anyway you
>may just get what u
>wish for. Have fun on
>the Bears ears monument elk
>hunt!

EASY ox!

You want me to show you some Damage at 11,500?

Hell SAKES!

Might be your Trail Blazin?:D

I Thought for Sure You'd Support & Participate in that SJ Ride?

We Could Call You ox Bundy!:D














[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
>>> Well!
>>>
>>>After asking ox about 20 times
>>>now rather He Participated in
>>>the SJ Wheeler Ride &
>>>He Never Answers,what You Guys
>>>Think?
>>>
>>>I'll bet He was Destroying Riparian
>>>& Artifacts like No other?
>>>
>>>
>>>You Coulda Answered me long ago
>>>ox!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>>>in to be Hillary's
>>>Intern[/font]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>You are sooo dramatic! No I
>>didn't participate. If it was
>>closer I sure would have.
>>I already privately messaged you
>>my stance on things and
>>u didn't respond. Anyway you
>>may just get what u
>>wish for. Have fun on
>>the Bears ears monument elk
>>hunt!
>
>EASY ox!
>
>You want me to show you
>some Damage at 11,500?
>
>Hell SAKES!
>
>Might be your Trail Blazin?:D
>
>I Thought for Sure You'd Support
>& Participate in that SJ
>Ride?
>
>We Could Call You ox Bundy!:D
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>in to be Hillary's
>Intern[/font]
>
>

Been tellin u show me the damage.
You are like a liberal just hurry and change the subject when u can't back ur statements.
 
>>>> Well!
>>>>
>>>>After asking ox about 20 times
>>>>now rather He Participated in
>>>>the SJ Wheeler Ride &
>>>>He Never Answers,what You Guys
>>>>Think?
>>>>
>>>>I'll bet He was Destroying Riparian
>>>>& Artifacts like No other?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You Coulda Answered me long ago
>>>>ox!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>>>>in to be Hillary's
>>>>Intern[/font]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>You are sooo dramatic! No I
>>>didn't participate. If it was
>>>closer I sure would have.
>>>I already privately messaged you
>>>my stance on things and
>>>u didn't respond. Anyway you
>>>may just get what u
>>>wish for. Have fun on
>>>the Bears ears monument elk
>>>hunt!
>>
>>EASY ox!
>>
>>You want me to show you
>>some Damage at 11,500?
>>
>>Hell SAKES!
>>
>>Might be your Trail Blazin?:D
>>
>>I Thought for Sure You'd Support
>>& Participate in that SJ
>>Ride?
>>
>>We Could Call You ox Bundy!:D
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned
>>in to be Hillary's
>>Intern[/font]
>>
>>
>
>Been tellin u show me the
>damage.
>You are like a liberal just
>hurry and change the subject
>when u can't back ur
>statements.


Come on up ox!

I'll show your Silly Ass the Damage!

It'd Be Interesting to know How Much sage you've destroyed in your day!









[font color="blue"]dude has his Resume turned in to be Hillary's
Intern[/font]
 
LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-16 AT 09:49PM (MST)[p]WannaB. Sorry if I offended you, actually I am Mormon. I love what the prophet says. It's always right on.
I only disagree with the way many members conveniently cherry pick and use teachings to make a culture of greed and materialism. Of which I see in Utah all the time, either through things like selling public lands, corruption in state politics,.the Rob Bishop ,Ken Ivory culture, the overdone real estate scandals recently, The I have a bigger home than you obsession, Or a hundred other things that sadly display Mormons to be no better overall than the general public in the rest of America.
IMO What a wasted opportunity.
 
To those saying the goverment has fukked everything up, I agree. However, the thing that has done more damage to this country is GREED.

To the point of this post, they just named the Desert Peaks National Monument right outside of where I live in NM. Guess what difference it has made? ZERO. Its still in the same shape, people still trash it. People are so lazy, not caring about anything, that it doesnt matter. Until laws are enforced, nothing will change. Our whole system is backwards, run by who gives the most money. You think these politicians really care about the land? If they did, wouldnt they put it in the budget to clean it, improve it, and make it better for the acerage citizens use?

*We are all in the same boat, just
wishing to be hunting right now!*
 
Sweet so all we need in Utah are Ski resorts and national parks. Perfect. That will make the state perfect...

Sorry but again you have failed to address the issue. The parks are part of the deal, but there are many people who visit Utah every year for other reasons. How many of those people who vixit Arches, etc. Are there for Jeeping and off roading yet spend a day in the park?

How many of those skiers also snowmobile? that would be great see Utah become nothing but the land of wilderness or Ski resorts...
 
Notice the Republicans aren't trying to change EPA guidelines (which went into effect under GWB) regarding coal power plants.

Mike Lee and Rob Bishop aren't even attempting to keep coal power plants alive. They're just saying what they need to say to convince people that the land should be private, as if that would save coal.

Clearly it won't since the law in this article has no provision regarding land ownership. They're lying to our faces, and some people believe them.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=41321957&nid=148&title=utah-challenges-epas-regional-haze-decision

Grizzly
 
>Funny stuff, shutting it all
>down, drill IT, mine
>it ,use it up,
>wolf refuges, inch by inch..
>
>
>Maybe, just maybe there are a
>few forward thinkers that love
>the American West?
>A few people who have
>enough decency to care about
>the totally unthinkable fact that
>there might be someone around
> 50 or 100 years
>from now. Maybe they would
>love to have a small
>sliver of the west as
>we know it left to
>enjoy.?
>I mean the drilling and
>mining is always there, if
>you save it,
>it won't if you drill
>and mine it though.
>
>Tards are a funny breed,
>a lot of it is
>convenient religion.
>Make loads of money,
>be materialistic, cause the church
>says it's ok. Have
>lots of children, cause there
>are lots of spirits waiting
>to visit. Use it
>up cause animals and land
>are all put here for
>the use of man,
> and never
>worry or care because
>prophecy will dictate what it
>is, so be happy don't
>worry.
> so let's
>build and breed until
>all until all of
>Utah looks like the Wasatch
>front.
I'm tired of jackasses that sit behind a computer and make snide remarks about people they don't know and things they know nothing about. If I could, I'd have you PM me your address and make an all expenses paid trip to you so you tell me about myself to my face.
 
>Hunt it as a Monument, just
>like Grand Staircase if you
>were to draw a Desert
>Sheep tag today.
>
>If it's drilled within an inch
>of its life, there won't
>be anything left there to
>hunt. Then the oil market
>will eventually shift and we'll
>be left with a scarred
>landscape that a few guys
>made millions off of, and
>we'll have nothing else to
>show for it. Why do
>you think oil companies have
>given $100K to Rob Bishop
>this year alone? It isn't
>so you and I can
>hunt there.
>
>As for me, I'll take the
>Monument.
>
>Grizzly

And what is the oil market going to shift too?

Please explain to me how every drop of oil on this planet will not be used sooner or later.

Open you eyes and look at the real world that you live in, and are a part off.
 
Hunt it as a Monument, just
>like Grand Staircase if you
>were to draw a Desert
>Sheep tag today.
>
>If it's drilled within an inch
>of its life, there won't
>be anything left there to
>hunt. Then the oil market
>will eventually shift and we'll
>be left with a scarred
>landscape that a few guys
>made millions off of, and
>we'll have nothing else to
>show for it. Why do
>you think oil companies have
>given $100K to Rob Bishop
>this year alone? It isn't
>so you and I can
>hunt there.
>
>As for me, I'll take the
>Monument.
>
>Grizzly

And what is the oil market going to shift too?

Please explain to me how every drop of oil on this planet will not be used sooner or later.

Open you eyes and look at the real world that you live in, and are a part off.
 
>
>Please explain to me how every
>drop of oil on this
>planet will not be used
>sooner or later.
>
>Open you eyes and look at
>the real world that you
>live in, and are a
>part off.


This actually won't happen and it's really kind of an ignorant, short sighted argument. Oil and other fossil fuels are already becoming more and more expensive to extract. Soon, in the not too distant future, production $ will outpace value. Meanwhile alternative energy will become more and more available and cost less. I promise you, we won't be using every drop of oil on the planet and certainly don't need to get our hands on all of it tomorrow.
 

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