Don Peay: The Man Who Would Be King...Baron

>Do you guys get some type
>of payment for starting these
>dumbaZZ threads....on M&M??
>
>Love him or hate him-----
>
>DP is here to stay....
>
>Let it go will ya ~~
>
>
>Robb

Sorry Robb, I couldn't disagree with you more. The only one making payments in situations like this is DP himself (see recent SLTrib article). Hunters need to be educated on the true situation and rally to save hunting in Utah as we know it. Luckily Utah served as an example which surrounding states have learned to avoid and those residents have been quick to rally to keep DP out. It will be much harder to remove him from Utah now that he has his stranglehold.

Burying our heads in the sand won't help. Sometimes great men fight for what they believe in.

There are those that try and turn these arguments into BS threads, but others use them to educate themselves and others on the true character of DP and his various organizations and why they are a force to be reckoned with and stopped.

Feel free to view my posts on the latest two SFW threads and you will see many posts full of independently verified information, much of which was unknown on MM before. (Like BGF and SFW payments of tax-payer money and the reciprocal payment to the Senator that issued the money, and DP owning Arctic Red River).

I'll keep up my fight. And trust me, it is working. I have a group of friends that were former SFW members that are spreading the truth. The ball is rolling downhill and gaining speed.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
A group of anonymous former SFW members. Bent on helping the sportsmen a and women of Utah with ideas that SFW overlooked. Good work grizzly, excited to hear your plans on helping our wildlife.
 
I was just reading through different threads here on MM and came across a thread "spread of disease" as I read the article furnished by BGF that was published in the Washington Post it made me sick. It made me sick when i realized what just happened last week. Look at the dates and the the controversial articles posted in a matter of three days.

3/5/13 Washington post article
3/7/13 SLC tribune
3/7/13 care2.com

All stories relating to SFW/BGF and the wolf war. It was no freaking coincidence. The antis are well organized and well funded. They are ready for war, and all we as hunters are doing is fighting amongst ourselves. Please ask yourself why are SFW, and BGF being targeted by these special interest groups ? Its not concerned sportsmen writing these articles.

I would appreciate someone putting a link to all three articles together to make it easier to see what is happening here. Don't kid yourself thinking this is anything other than a well organized attack on the delisting of wolves.
 
"Sometimes great men fight for what they believe in."

An entire army of brainwashed idiots will fight someone elses war when their enemy spoon feeds them propoganda.
 
Apparently, several people don't like this guy.......and he don't even live in California!

"I could agree with you, but then we would both be
wrong......and stupid"
 
>"Sometimes great men fight for what
>they believe in."
>
>An entire army of brainwashed idiots
>will fight someone elses war
>when their enemy spoon feeds
>them propoganda.


Sounds exactly like you're talking about DP and his defenders when the truth keeps coming out as to exactly what he is, LOL!!!
 
>>"Sometimes great men fight for what
>>they believe in."
>>
>>An entire army of brainwashed idiots
>>will fight someone elses war
>>when their enemy spoon feeds
>>them propoganda.
>
>
>Sounds exactly like you're talking about
>DP and his defenders when
>the truth keeps coming out
>as to exactly what he
>is, LOL!!!



:)

Tallbuck1
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-13 AT 07:33AM (MST)[p]"Sounds exactly like you're talking about DP and his defenders when the truth keeps coming out as to exactly what he is, LOL!!!"


Careful. The hand you hold will hold you down. Pay attention to Birdman's and JMO's posts. They may be onto something.
 
By the way I thought you guys might want to know who your ally is in this fight. You remember the guy that wrote the article at the top of his thread? Here is his bio if you want it. Kind of interesting who people are siding with here. Yall wonder why I think a bunch of the people on here are anti-hunters?

http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobferris
 
>By the way I thought you
>guys might want to know
>who your ally is in
>this fight. You remember
>the guy that wrote the
>article at the top of
>his thread? Here is
>his bio if you want
>it. Kind of interesting
>who people are siding with
>here. Yall wonder why
>I think a bunch of
>the people on here are
>anti-hunters?
>
>http://www.linkedin.com/in/bobferris

I find it strange that those calling for transparency often have their profiles blocked. This is very telling!
 
>I find it strange that those
>calling for transparency often have
>their profiles blocked. This
>is very telling!


here is one reason why... this is posted from another thread on this site. Good read.

From hornhunter247
"I can answer this..... A few years back on here there was a heated debate over something stupid. I called a guy out on his bs and in return I started recieving threatening emails from this individual. And it only got worse!!! He found out everything about me in real life, like my adress, work, phone number. All this over a something as stupid as disagreeing with him!"!

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID5/20651.html#10


Tallbuck1
 
I know that I am new but please help me understand why some of the most vocal people on this issue are not even from Utah or the West.

Zim ? Illinois
4100fps ? Montana
Tallbuck1 ? (blocked) Hi Aaron ? I know you are local.
TOPGUN ? Michigan
Zeke - Blocked
8mmMag - Blocked
 
That is great post and great link. Most of these guys have a personal chip on their shoulder over Don and the SFW. They use any angle they can to push their personal dislike. Their drive is not for the future of our wildlife.

Fire away gents but a lot of you know the reason some of these guys left the SFW is they were not voted into a position or a project was rejected or they some how felt slighted by the SFW. If they would have been voted in, or their personal project would have been implmented they would still be supporting the SFW.

Everytime the facts get brought out they disppear. Where did the trailer guy go??? Facts come out that the DWR is not using the trailer, not the SFW and not another word. Pheasants, the facts come out a not another word. Jump on and throw rocks until facts come out and suddenly the namesless disappear.

Grizzly,
I think you do want to make a difference and I do think you care about the future of our wildlife but I think you really have been mislead by a group that would still be heavliy involved with SFW if they would have got their own personal way at some point in the game. You are using an opening anti hunting guru "leader" for ammunition against fellow sportsmen that I do not understand for any reason and DO NOT support that tatic in any way. Neither should any other hunter on this site! Set aside your dislike for Don or the SFW and think about that for second. Supporting the true enemy to prove a point!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-13 AT 08:29AM (MST)[p]tall,
You know that is not the reason your profile is disabled...Come on. Do we really want to start throwing all sorts of rumors around?
 
>I know that I am new
>but please help me understand
>why some of the most
>vocal people on this issue
>are not even from Utah
>or the West.
>
>Zim � Illinois
>4100fps � Montana
>Tallbuck1 � (blocked) Hi Aaron �
>I know you are local.
>
>TOPGUN � Michigan
>Zeke - Blocked
>8mmMag - Blocked

Good Morning Brandon... How are you? Yes I am a local boy born and raised.





Tallbuck1
 
>I know that I am new
>but please help me understand
>why some of the most
>vocal people on this issue
>are not even from Utah
>or the West.
>
>Zim ? Illinois
>4100fps ? Montana
>Tallbuck1 ? (blocked) Hi Aaron ?
>I know you are local.
>
>TOPGUN ? Michigan
>Zeke - Blocked
>8mmMag - Blocked


***Very simple answer Bro! It's because we don't want to see this crap that DP has perpetrated on Utah going to other states!
 
Muley_73,

You make some good points.

I have been following this discussion on MM now for quite some time. I have attended the public discussions both at the UofU and the most recent open discussion at the DWR meeting.

I do think that many members of the SFW are very concerned, active sportsmen and women who truly care for the future of our sport. I also believe that many of the membership have done some amazing things for wildlife.

What I can not get over is the fact that the leadership of said organization has shown time and time again their lack of willingness to be open and transparent about where money is being spent.

Not even you can argue with that!!!

I also believe it comes down to a personal choice on who you want to support.

I respect the fact that you choose to support SFW and your reasons are genuine, so it seems.

I choose not to support them, but that does not mean that I don't have the same concerns and cares when it comes to wildlife. I choose to spend my money with other organizations that are more transparent so I am sure where my money is going.

I can't help but agree with others on here that the latest very public projects being pushed by SFW are nothing more than propaganda to keep the masses believing that the leadership of SFW truly care about more than just their dollars (which I don't believe).

It's really too bad SFW isn't more transparent because I would support them in a heartbeat if they were and I truly believe most others would as well.

Just my $0.02

PS b1mtn4fc

Just because a guy is not from Utah doesn't mean he can't be concerned for the future of wildlife. You know as well as the rest that the SFW is much bigger than Utah and is spreading to many other states across the nation.


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
Her is a prime example how articles go and how the media tell the truth.


Statement from Chris W. Cox, NRA-ILA Executive Director, regarding inaccurate NBC story alleging that NRA won't oppose background check bill

An article appearing today on NBCNews.com is falsely reporting that NRA will not oppose legislation being negotiated in the U.S. Senate that would mandate background checks for all gun purchasers.

The story posted on NBCNews.com alleges that NRA will not oppose expanding the background check system to include all private firearm sales, "provided the legislation does not require private gun sellers to maintain records of the checks". This statement is completely untrue. The NRA opposes criminalizing private firearms transfers between law-abiding individuals, and therefore opposes an expansion of the background check system.
 
>I know that I am new
>but please help me understand
>why some of the most
>vocal people on this issue
>are not even from Utah
>or the West.
>
>Zim ? Illinois
>4100fps ? Montana
>Tallbuck1 ? (blocked) Hi Aaron ?
>I know you are local.
>
>TOPGUN ? Michigan
>Zeke - Blocked
>8mmMag - Blocked

Guilty as charged! I was playing with my account yesterday to see if there was a setting to eliminate the email received on certain topics. MY PROFILE WAS BLOCKED FOR LESS THAN 24 HOURS.

Feel free to contact me any time you wish.....as long as the content is of a positive note!

Proudly,
Zeke
 
>
>That is great post and great
>link. Most of these
>guys have a personal chip
>on their shoulder over Don
>and the SFW. They
>use any angle they can
>to push their personal dislike.
> Their drive is not
>for the future of our
>wildlife.
>
>Fire away gents but a lot
>of you know the reason
>some of these guys left
>the SFW is they were
>not voted into a position
>or a project was rejected
>or they some how felt
>slighted by the SFW.
>If they would have been
>voted in, or their personal
>project would have been implmented
>they would still be supporting
>the SFW.
>
>Everytime the facts get brought out
>they disppear. Where did
>the trailer guy go???
>Facts come out that the
>DWR is not using the
>trailer, not the SFW and
>not another word. Pheasants,
>the facts come out a
>not another word. Jump
>on and throw rocks until
>facts come out and suddenly
>the namesless disappear.
>

I have not gone away... I am still here forgive me if I have a life and don't get on MM every 5 minutes.


I tried making a difference for 8 + years with SFW... so don't give me any grief that I am pissed for not seeing a project gone through or because I was not elected to some higher calling within SFW. I have my reasons for leaving (being told no time and time again, Divorce, Time, ) and your right Justin there were lots of ideas and topics thrown around the table, but there was a long time that it was all there was...TALK. How many times did we as a committee say we wanted and begged to help? Kurt knows this first hand. Back in the day the work was all done by the previous chairman. How many times did we say we were sick of being just a banquet committee and that we wanted to get out and help? The answer was always the same for a long time.

I do see the good that SFW does, and I will give props to what they are doing now with all the projects that have come about. Good Job. But I also know first hand that there are alot of people who will not support SFW due to them just looking at us as a person who gives money. Sportsman in this state are about helping, that is no different from me or the other 15 plus guys that have left SFW that I know of. They were hurt by broken promises time and time again. Promised they could help with their personal time on the ground for wildlife. They saw the good they could do and wanted to, begged to help but yet there voices fell on deaf ears. All that was needed from us was an open wallet.

SFW bought the trailer your right... and we helped for 2 years, now what? No more help is needed, there are no move birds to round up and move to another location? Forgive me if I am wrong but I believe that geese are still a major problem in and around salt lake, Davis, and Weber counties.

What more can be said about the pheasants They didn't want to help them years ago, but now last year they did? Good for putting pheasants down in central and southern utah, but what about them putting them up in Northern Utah with the help of Ron Greer? Guess no answer to that as it is a DEAD issue to people. Why put birds in northern Utah when all the habitat is lost. I also got the feeling for years and years and years that Waterfowl and Upland game were a not a major topic for SFW. Funny thing is I would bet that most Big game hunters in the state also hunt waterfowl and upland game. But lets avoid that question and just talk about the pheasants planted last year and three weeks ago... Gotcha



Tallbuck1
 
O_S_O_K---That was an excellent post from my perspective and I think probably for most of those who see the SFW hierarchy, and not the workers, as the problem. What other supposedly nonprofit conservation organization gets the bulk of their money the way they do and will not show how much came in and where it all went? That, I believe, is the big problem and not the great blue collar workers who are doing their best to help in the conservation effort with what they are given. I wish all the guys on the SFW team doing that work could see that they are not being questioned about their work, but why they choose to continue to allow the lack of transparency of their leaders to prosper.
 
>Muley_73,
>
>You make some good points.
>
>I have been following this discussion
>on MM now for quite
>some time. I have
>attended the public discussions both
>at the UofU and the
>most recent open discussion at
>the DWR meeting.
>
>I do think that many members
>of the SFW are very
>concerned, active sportsmen and women
>who truly care for the
>future of our sport.
>I also believe that many
>of the membership have done
>some amazing things for wildlife.
>
>
>What I can not get over
>is the fact that the
>leadership of said organization has
>shown time and time again
>their lack of willingness to
>be open and transparent about
>where money is being spent.
>
>
>Not even you can argue with
>that!!!
>
>I also believe it comes down
>to a personal choice on
>who you want to support.
>
>
>I respect the fact that you
>choose to support SFW and
>your reasons are genuine, so
>it seems.
>
>I choose not to support them,
>but that does not mean
>that I don't have the
>same concerns and cares when
>it comes to wildlife.
>I choose to spend my
>money with other organizations that
>are more transparent so I
>am sure where my money
>is going.
>
>I can't help but agree with
>others on here that the
>latest very public projects being
>pushed by SFW are nothing
>more than propaganda to keep
>the masses believing that the
>leadership of SFW truly care
>about more than just their
>dollars (which I don't believe).
>
>
>It's really too bad SFW isn't
>more transparent because I would
>support them in a heartbeat
>if they were and I
>truly believe most others would
>as well.
>
>Just my $0.02
>
>PS b1mtn4fc
>
>Just because a guy is not
>from Utah doesn't mean he
>can't be concerned for the
>future of wildlife. You
>know as well as the
>rest that the SFW is
>much bigger than Utah and
>is spreading to many other
>states across the nation.
>
>
>"The problem with quotes on Internet
>Forums is that it is
>often difficult to verify their
>authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln


+1


Tallbuck1
 
>TOPGUN that is very altruistic of
>you IF that is your
>only motive.

That is my only motive since I have no plans of hunting in Utah or any of the other western states with the exception of Wyoming.
 
Back when Taulman and USO sued AZ Don and Pete got up and promised there would never be a push for expo tags in our state. At that time Harry Ried got the bill passed confirming that the people of each state owned big game so that is settled law. SFW tried the big end around last year to get 300+ free tags and guess what? We beat them like a rented mule. I am glad they are mainly in Utah and I hold hope that the people there can get to the politicians and courts and force transparency. If they have to go through a rigorous audit and tell where all of the money has gone I think that will at least make them accountable. Good luck. SFW is dead here and if they try to rebuild there are plenty of people waiting to stop them. Just a bad organization for the family hunter and do-it-yourself hunter.
 
Oh ok pheasant didn't get planted where and when you wanted so lets demonize the fact that they doing something now. The new Director just set aside 150K for pheasants this year. That is a step in the right direction. But because it didn't happen when and where you wanted it's just propaganda. Again your personal agenda was not met so its a bad thing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-13 AT 11:12AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-13-13 AT 10:27 AM (MST)

>Oh ok pheasant didn't get planted
>where and when you wanted
>so lets demonize the fact
>that they doing something now.
> The new Director just
>set aside 150K for pheasants
>this year. That is
>a step in the right
>direction. But because it didn't
>happen when and where you
>wanted it's just propaganda.
>Again your personal agenda was
>not met so its a
>bad thing.

It wasn't my personal agenda, it was brought as a group of us... to help pheasants. but if that is what makes you happy to claim that I left SFW due to pheasants not coming back to the way they once were then so be it. you have no clue.

Good for the new director for setting aside 150K. I stand by that 100% but it still doesnt change the FACT that things fell on DEAF ears within SFW until this new face lift happened.




Tallbuck1
 
Topgun, I guess that the reason we do not ask for the trans parity is because we all ready see it. We see the tax returns. We see the audits by the IRS. We look with open eyes and with what we see we know where the money goes. We know it takes money to run the organization. We also know that the man at the top, Byron Bateman is as honest as they come. We also know that all money is accounted for. I guess it is just the fact that we believe, know, that things are above board. Some of us are close to what goes on. We see it. I know that you and others do not believe but we do. That is why it is growing so fast. Bigger every year.
 
I guess that all will never agree on the same thing. Maybe that is what makes this country so great. I also believe that there must be opposition in all things. Thus we all do not agree. Some have more knowledge than others. Some believe different than others. The important thing is that we all want more wildlife. Some believe SFW is right. Some believe RMEF, MDF, NWTF, Wild sheep foundation, SCI, and others are the correct way to go. The big thing is to work toward wildlife and the increase of hunting in this great country. No matter what organization you belong to, we all need to work for better and more hunting.
 
>Topgun, I guess that the
>reason we do not ask
>for the trans parity is
>because we all ready see
>it. We see the tax
>returns. We see the
>audits by the IRS. We
>look with open eyes and
>with what we see we
>know where the money goes.
> We know it takes
>money to run the organization.
> We also know that
>the man at the top,
>Byron Bateman is as honest
>as they come. We
>also know that all money
>is accounted for. I
>guess it is just the
>fact that we believe, know,
>that things are above board.
> Some of us are
>close to what goes on.
> We see it.
>I know that you and
>others do not believe but
>we do. That is
>why it is growing so
>fast. Bigger every year.
>
+1
 
If it is all on the up and up why not show it to the public? SFW would shut up well over half their critics if they simply opened their books like all the other organizations you named.

By keeping the general public in the dark, the very public that allows SFW to sell big game tags, you breed distrust. You may see all that but people on the outside don't trust your organization because of it's secrecy. Maybe trust doesn't matter to you guys.

Nemont
 
interesting comments all. seems to me with all the anti crap going around it just plain sucks to have to watch out for orgs that are supposed to be on our side at the same time. when the distrust seems to come from all directions and states kinda makes a guy leery.
 
Don't base your opinion on the "internet" ie; MM, or you'll be as dumb as the girl on the Allstate commercial.

"I read it on the internet" "my date is a French model"

Classic!

Zeke
 
Numont, SFW posts their tax returns just like other organizations do. They do want the law requires. The IRS audit's them as well as the State Auditors. There has never been a question as to what is going on. The only questions come from people who either do not take the time to look or refuse to believe that they are correct. Never have I heard the upper people in SFW blame or talk bad about any other groups. Even when all this is going on they never say anything. Why, they really have nothing to defend. With the way they are growing in membership as well the things that they accomplish they are here to stay. They will continue to be successful. Those of you who do not believe that is fine. Your free will. The thing is that SFW is on the up and up with the people in the head that are as honest as can be. You can say what you want, but that is the way that it is. Have you bones to pick and if you are not liking SFW then say away. If you do not like us we really do not want you for members. We are here to get things accomplished. We transplanted pheasants, then get chewed out. We transplanted deer, we get chewed out. We know there is opposition to what we do and that is fine. Good for those that appose. Please though, do not give second or third heard advice. Only give that which you know to be true.
 
I see we're now back around to the tax returns and they do what the law requires statements again! I'll just bow out of this before it starts getting into name calling like most threads on this stuff get to. If you want to allow a guy and his top people to slip away with all that money that isn't accounted for, so be it. If you had no idea that they own an outfitting business in AK that is benefitting big time from their money making system so be it. It will be up to the people of Utah to take care of the situation when the Expo contract is up for renewal in a couple years. That will tell whether things change or not. In the mean time the rest of us living in other states will continue to press the charge to keep them the heck out and not let things get to the point they are in Utah. Good Luck!!!
 
Birdman,

That is a huge cop out. SFW is not as transparent as those other organizations, you may meet the law but you don't meet the smell test when it comes to SFW's finances.

The wolf debate that Don Peay takes credit for solving is proof in the pudding what kind of an organization SFW truly is. They worked against the best interest of people who wanted to hunt wolves in MT and ID. If we went SFW's way we would still not be able to hunt them.

So crow if you want but you are not a transparent organization that shows the light of day on it's finances.

Doesn't matter what I say but you outfit in MT is going to get their head handed to them if they continue to support radical anti hunter legislation. They are on the wrong side of every bill before our legislature.

Nemont
 
>Numont, SFW posts their
>tax returns just like other
>organizations do. They do
>want the law requires.
>The IRS audit's them as
>well as the State Auditors.
> There has never
>been a question as to
>what is going on.
>The only questions come from
>people who either do not
>take the time to look
>or refuse to believe that
>they are correct. Never
>have I heard the upper
>people in SFW blame or
>talk bad about any other
>groups. Even when all
>this is going on they
>never say anything. Why,
>they really have nothing to
>defend. With the way
>they are growing in membership
>as well the things that
>they accomplish they are here
>to stay. They will
>continue to be successful.
>Those of you who do
>not believe that is fine.
> Your free will.
>The thing is that SFW
>is on the up and
>up with the people in
>the head that are as
>honest as can be.
>You can say what you
>want, but that is the
>way that it is.
> Have you bones to
>pick and if you are
>not liking SFW then say
>away. If you do
>not like us we really
>do not want you for
>members. We are here
>to get things accomplished.
>We transplanted pheasants, then get
>chewed out. We transplanted
>deer, we get chewed out.
> We know there is
>opposition to what we do
>and that is fine.
>Good for those that appose.
> Please though, do not
>give second or third heard
>advice. Only give that
>which you know to be
>true.

What SFW files what is legally required of a non-profit. That is not to say is a rigorous audit by an independent party such as a publicly traded company or a bank undergoes each year.SFW has a different approach and is not best practices but is legally compliant.

How do other groups handle the reporting and auditing? Well, RMEF undergoes a rigorous audit. By an independent auditor. Independent is a specific term for audits. I have no reason to doubt RMEF's leadership are good, trustworthy people.

Why not save the money spent on audits and put it on the ground? Trust. The next non-profit to get caught self-dealing or having someone embezzle a chunk of money will not be the first. When millions of dollars are involved it is reasonable and advisable for a professionally run organization to be independently audited.

For example, related parties sometimes get valid contracts but those should be cleary noted as to amount and relationship. RMEF does this. Public transparency is possible in greater detail in the financial reports than is legally required. RMEF does this.

Blind trust is a wonderful thing.
 
Outdoor,

Amen, there is a huge difference between doing what is legally required and being transparent. SFW would benefit greatly simply by going the extra step of being transparent. Other groups do it but SFW always resists. They could be pure as the driven snow but without transparency they will always be viewed as a shady outfit trying to hide behind legalism.

Nemont
 
Agreed, DP even said they purposefully only release what is legally required so as to not give ammo to their enemies. That fear doesn't stop RMEF from DETAILING everything to the penny.

When you ask SFW where the money is, the want to take you on the Don Peay Miracle Tour and show you all the transplanted animals and reseeded burns. Great. Nobody says SFW doesn't do positive things for wildlife.

What people are concerned about is the possible disparity between money spent and money earned. We have no way of knowing if the money spent on habitat is every penny earned. (Don't confuse this statement with me alleging impropriety, some non-profit groups are just more efficient than others.)

My other beef with SFW is the arrogant attitude that they "donated" the money to habitat. It is not a donation to spend money on habitat when you got the money by selling property that wasn't yours in the first place.

Here is an example... If I sell your truck for X dollars and then give you back X dollars, I didn't give you anything. I simply traded your truck for cash and gave it back to you. That is what SFW does, they trade public property (tags) for cash and then give it back, minus the administrative costs. It is not generosity to give money back to people who owned it in the first place.

That is the same thing as saying your tax refund is "donated" to you by the IRS. No it isn't. It was your money in the first place, they just held it for a while, then gave it back.

I'm not saying private groups don't do a better job at this than the government would do. I just don't like the "pat ourselves on the back" attitude that DP takes on the issue.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Amen Grizzly!!!

Pompous is the word that comes to my mind


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
Looking for them to act like other similar not for profits involved in conservation. Sunlight is a great disinfectant, it would go a long way towards making SFW appear less like Crossroads GPS and more like RMEF, DU and others.

You will never get SFW and any of their proteges to want to disclose where the money goes because either they fear it will make them look bad or they simply don't like being held accountable. The citizens of Utah who allow SFW to drink from the public trough should be demanding open books but instead Don Peay and his fellow SFW members think just saying, "trust us" is enough.

Even Ronald Reagan said, "trust but verify".

Nemont
 
>>
>>That is great post and great
>>link. Most of these
>>guys have a personal chip
>>on their shoulder over Don
>>and the SFW. They
>>use any angle they can
>>to push their personal dislike.
>> Their drive is not
>>for the future of our
>>wildlife.
>>
>>Fire away gents but a lot
>>of you know the reason
>>some of these guys left
>>the SFW is they were
>>not voted into a position
>>or a project was rejected
>>or they some how felt
>>slighted by the SFW.
>>If they would have been
>>voted in, or their personal
>>project would have been implmented
>>they would still be supporting
>>the SFW.
>>
>>Everytime the facts get brought out
>>they disppear. Where did
>>the trailer guy go???
>>Facts come out that the
>>DWR is not using the
>>trailer, not the SFW and
>>not another word. Pheasants,
>>the facts come out a
>>not another word. Jump
>>on and throw rocks until
>>facts come out and suddenly
>>the namesless disappear.
>>
>
>I have not gone away...
>I am still here forgive
>me if I have a
>life and don't get on
>MM every 5 minutes.
>
>
>I tried making a difference for
>8 + years with SFW...
>so don't give me any
>grief that I am pissed
>for not seeing a project
>gone through or because I
>was not elected to some
>higher calling within SFW.
>I have my reasons for
>leaving (being told no time
>and time again, Divorce, Time,
>) and your right Justin
>there were lots of ideas
>and topics thrown around the
>table, but there was a
>long time that it was
>all there was...TALK. How
>many times did we as
>a committee say we wanted
>and begged to help? Kurt
>knows this first hand.
>Back in the day the
>work was all done by
>the previous chairman.
>How many times did we
>say we were sick of
>being just a banquet committee
>and that we wanted to
>get out and help?
>The answer was always the
>same for a long time.
>
>
>I do see the good that
>SFW does, and I will
>give props to what they
>are doing now with all
>the projects that have come
>about. Good Job.
>But I also know first
>hand that there are alot
>of people who will not
>support SFW due to them
>just looking at us as
>a person who gives money.
> Sportsman in this state
>are about helping, that is
>no different from me or
>the other 15 plus guys
>that have left SFW that
>I know of. They
>were hurt by broken promises
>time and time again. Promised
>they could help with their
>personal time on the ground
>for wildlife. They saw
>the good they could do
>and wanted to, begged to
>help but yet there voices
>fell on deaf ears.
>All that was needed from
>us was an open wallet.
>
>
>SFW bought the trailer your right...
>and we helped for 2
>years, now what? No
>more help is needed, there
>are no move birds to
>round up and move to
>another location? Forgive me
>if I am wrong but
>I believe that geese are
>still a major problem in
>and around salt lake, Davis,
>and Weber counties.
>
>What more can be said about
>the pheasants They didn't
>want to help them years
>ago, but now last year
>they did? Good for
>putting pheasants down in central
>and southern utah, but what
>about them putting them up
>in Northern Utah with the
>help of Ron Greer? Guess
>no answer to that as
>it is a DEAD issue
>to people. Why put
>birds in northern Utah when
>all the habitat is lost.
> I also got the
>feeling for years and years
>and years that Waterfowl and
>Upland game were a not
>a major topic for SFW.
> Funny thing is I
>would bet that most Big
>game hunters in the state
>also hunt waterfowl and upland
>game. But lets avoid
>that question and just talk
>about the pheasants planted last
>year and three weeks ago...
> Gotcha
>
>
>
>Tallbuck1


Gotcha ?
Got who ? That statement there tells it all. You're out to get even. All I'm reading is my feeling were hurt as a SFW committee member and now Im going to get revenge. I repeat myself PLEASE contact the DWR about the goose trailer, and quit blaming SFW for it not being used. Im curious as to what your thoughts are about the origin of the above article that started this thread, and the others that were published within days of each other ? Coincidence ?
 
>I was just reading through different
>threads here on MM and
>came across a thread "spread
>of disease" as I read
>the article furnished by BGF
>that was published in the
>Washington Post it made me
>sick. It made me sick
>when i realized what just
>happened last week. Look at
>the dates and the the
>controversial articles posted in a
>matter of three days.
>
>3/5/13 Washington post article
>3/7/13 SLC tribune
>3/7/13 care2.com
>
>All stories relating to SFW/BGF and
>the wolf war. It was
>no freaking coincidence. The antis
>are well organized and well
>funded. They are ready for
>war, and all we as
>hunters are doing is fighting
>amongst ourselves. Please ask yourself
>why are SFW, and BGF
>being targeted by these special
>interest groups ? Its not
>concerned sportsmen writing these articles.
>
>
>I would appreciate someone putting a
>link to all three articles
>together to make it easier
>to see what is happening
>here. Don't kid yourself thinking
>this is anything other than
>a well organized attack on
>the delisting of wolves.

No responses ?
 
>>>
>>>That is great post and great
>>>link. Most of these
>>>guys have a personal chip
>>>on their shoulder over Don
>>>and the SFW. They
>>>use any angle they can
>>>to push their personal dislike.
>>> Their drive is not
>>>for the future of our
>>>wildlife.
>>>
>>>Fire away gents but a lot
>>>of you know the reason
>>>some of these guys left
>>>the SFW is they were
>>>not voted into a position
>>>or a project was rejected
>>>or they some how felt
>>>slighted by the SFW.
>>>If they would have been
>>>voted in, or their personal
>>>project would have been implmented
>>>they would still be supporting
>>>the SFW.
>>>
>>>Everytime the facts get brought out
>>>they disppear. Where did
>>>the trailer guy go???
>>>Facts come out that the
>>>DWR is not using the
>>>trailer, not the SFW and
>>>not another word. Pheasants,
>>>the facts come out a
>>>not another word. Jump
>>>on and throw rocks until
>>>facts come out and suddenly
>>>the namesless disappear.
>>>
>>
>>I have not gone away...
>>I am still here forgive
>>me if I have a
>>life and don't get on
>>MM every 5 minutes.
>>
>>
>>I tried making a difference for
>>8 + years with SFW...
>>so don't give me any
>>grief that I am pissed
>>for not seeing a project
>>gone through or because I
>>was not elected to some
>>higher calling within SFW.
>>I have my reasons for
>>leaving (being told no time
>>and time again, Divorce, Time,
>>) and your right Justin
>>there were lots of ideas
>>and topics thrown around the
>>table, but there was a
>>long time that it was
>>all there was...TALK. How
>>many times did we as
>>a committee say we wanted
>>and begged to help? Kurt
>>knows this first hand.
>>Back in the day the
>>work was all done by
>>the previous chairman.
>>How many times did we
>>say we were sick of
>>being just a banquet committee
>>and that we wanted to
>>get out and help?
>>The answer was always the
>>same for a long time.
>>
>>
>>I do see the good that
>>SFW does, and I will
>>give props to what they
>>are doing now with all
>>the projects that have come
>>about. Good Job.
>>But I also know first
>>hand that there are alot
>>of people who will not
>>support SFW due to them
>>just looking at us as
>>a person who gives money.
>> Sportsman in this state
>>are about helping, that is
>>no different from me or
>>the other 15 plus guys
>>that have left SFW that
>>I know of. They
>>were hurt by broken promises
>>time and time again. Promised
>>they could help with their
>>personal time on the ground
>>for wildlife. They saw
>>the good they could do
>>and wanted to, begged to
>>help but yet there voices
>>fell on deaf ears.
>>All that was needed from
>>us was an open wallet.
>>u
>>
>>SFW bought the trailer your right...
>>and we helped for 2
>>years, now what? No
>>more help is needed, there
>>are no move birds to
>>round up and move to
>>another location? Forgive me
>>if I am wrong but
>>I believe that geese are
>>still a major problem in
>>and around salt lake, Davis,
>>and Weber counties.
>>
>>What more can be said about
>>the pheasants They didn't
>>want to help them years
>>ago, but now last year
>>they did? Good for
>>putting pheasants down in central
>>and southern utah, but what
>>about them putting them up
>>in Northern Utah with the
>>help of Ron Greer? Guess
>>no answer to that as
>>it is a DEAD issue
>>to people. Why put
>>birds in northern Utah when
>>all the habitat is lost.
>> I also got the
>>feeling for years and years
>>and years that Waterfowl and
>>Upland game were a not
>>a major topic for SFW.
>> Funny thing is I
>>would bet that most Big
>>game hunters in the state
>>also hunt waterfowl and upland
>>game. But lets avoid
>>that question and just talk
>>about the pheasants planted last
>>year and three weeks ago...
>> Gotcha
>>
>>
>>
>>Tallbuck1
>
>
>Gotcha ?
>Got who ? That statement there
>tells it all. You're out
>to get even. All I'm
>reading is my feeling were
>hurt as a SFW committee
>member and now Im going
>to get revenge. I repeat
>myself PLEASE contact the DWR
>about the goose trailer, and
>quit blaming SFW for it
>not being used. Im curious
>as to what your thoughts
>are about the origin of
>the above article that started
>this thread, and the others
>that were published within days
>of each other ?
>Coincidence ?

I am not about getting even at all Justin. being told no on projects for 8 years an never used for help on anything but to raise money does suck but I say for the long haul. I am not out for getting revenge...I am not that type of guy. . I will ask rich if he needs any help this year and be happy to help while I am out working on waterfowl projects with other groups who listen and don't mind getting dirty working.

Call if you want to discuss Justin as I consider you a good friend.

Tallbuck1
 
>And that is my question.
>You don't trust and you
>don't seem to know what
>you want to verify.


What is so hard to figure out that people want to know exactly where all the money they brought in went to? For example, the 2011 tax filing shows the following:
$172,233 went to Peay Consulting---What did he do for that money?
$189,383 went to "Wolf Campaign"---What does that mean and what was done under that line expense?
$247,284 went for "Fees & Other Services"---What the heck does that mean with absolutely no breakdown?
$294,299 went to "All Other Expenses"---Again, no breakdown so where did all of it go?

Conclusion: That's $903,199 "trust us" dollars that the tax filing alone shows was spent with no breakdown of actual usage. If that's just the tax filings alone with what many/most outsiders would probably consider questionable, what would an independent audit Like RMEF undergoes voluntarily show?
 
Topgun, Not in AK, in BC. Also a gift from a very large donator. But then I know that will not satisfy. Tax returns are posted just like the other orgs. I know RMEF does break it down to different things. That is fine. I love the way that everyone likes to jump on SFW for the so called Tag grab in Utah. I am sure you all know that RMEF is also involved in that big time. MDF, Turkey, Sheep, SCI, and I think I left one out. I know MM people have said that RMEF gives 100% back. I ask the DWR about that. Their answer is all groups are keeping their 10%. All groups. I attended the auction or what ever you want to call it for those tags. It is open to the public. RMEF gets a large amount of the tags.
Now I know that it doesn't matter what is put on here that is good about SFW, there are those that will never agree. That is find. Your right. I do not agree that there is any hiding of money. SFW is all up front. Again Byron Bateman is as honest as they come but then the SFW haters will never agree. That is fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. As for me and many others, SFW is doing a great job for wildlife for us little people. Glad I am part of it. Love what they do for wildlife.
 
Birdman---How in the world can you say that RMEF is greatly involved in tags like SFW/MDF? That is a ridiculous statement to make! Look it up! If you looked at my response to Tristate and have no problem with over $900,000 not really being accounted for just in one year alone, then I feel real sorry for the way they have you and the others hoodwinked! $900,000 man!!! You have to be kidding me not to question that kind of money not being accounted for when they only show $600,000+ on one line going to habitat restoration in that same return! Sorry I had to make these last couple posts after I said I was bowing out, but I just can't be quiet when I looked that return up. God knows how much more would be found in an independent audit of the books, so it's no wonder they say they are only going to do what's legally required!
 
Birdman, you are confusing Convention Tags with Conservation Tags. With Conservation, all orgs keep their 10% (you can see rmef numbers line-by-line on rmef.org, I checked today).

RMEF's offer to return 100% of the profit was for the Convention Tags, which caused SFW to lessen the amount of money they kept for each application. They still charge more than RMEF offered, I don't know why DWR didn't accept RMEF's offer. I feel like DWR has an obligation to accept an offer like that.

If you then add in the income from the Expo for advertising, state/local travel bureau grants, booth rental, concession income, etc... and you can see where SFW is really profiting off of Utah tags with no accountability. Then we learn this week that they are getting additional tax money with apparently no strings attached (no progress report yet filed, paid in advance, with more to come this year). Then add in TOPGUN's numbers pulled off sfw.net and you start to see why some of us get upset.

Hope this clears up your confusion.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Topgun, Just to let you know. Of the seven groups that get the conservation tags from the State of Utah, RMEF gets the third largest amount of tags. I was at the distribution of those tags and the bidding. Yes RMEF was there getting lots of tags. I do not care what RMEF says, they had a rep there getting their share of the tags.
 
Grizz, I was talking about conservation tags and not convention tags. Thanks for the correction. As for the reason that the state did not accept RMEF offer is because it was under contract with the MDF. That comes up in a few years. At that time they could apply for those tags. Their only problem is that they love Vegas for there convention. To get those tags you have to meet certain criteria meaning that the RMEF would have to move their big convention to Utah. I would guess that they love Vegas as I think at one time they were in the Salt Palace. Not sure on that. Like the sheep foundation, they wanted to go to Reno thus leaving Salt Lake, The rule also reads that the convention tags must stay in Utah.
 
Grizz you did it again! You stole the words right out of my mouth. I really couldn't agree with you more on this issue and like you I also see this group as our number one nemisis as do-it -your- self hunters who don't only hunt when we draw some sought after tag or are well off enough to purchase such tags.We are on the mountain every fall thrilled to have have the oppurtunity to possibly have the hunt of a life time. SFW couldn't give a ##### less about people like me! I don't have enough fundage to buy some auction tag and I like to hunt way too much to sit around and wait 'till I draw a henery's deer tag before I get off the couch. General hunters are the ones taking it up the can with no lube from these guys. I have to admit there was a time I was a member of SFW. I like alot of people trusted that this group was going to do great things with my money and that's how these type of organizations worked right? After a few years of paying dues and attending the local banquets and asking detailed questions pertaining to our local wildlife and issues we were having at that time. I just flat out couldn't ever get any straight forward answers to my questions and I always had certain people telling me I better find out who I was dealing with and to not assume everything is as it seems with these guys. Well I'm the type of guy who has to dig in and find answers to these glaring question marks. Well I can say I dug and dug and dug. And to put it simply I am no longer a member of SFW and to be completely honest I'm embarrassed and demoralized that I ever was.
 
Do it yourself hunter??? What does that have to do with anything???? I have never bought an auction tag or hired a guide. Really please explain how this makes your view point more valid.
 
Griz, I do understand the difference but when I was bringing up the tags I was referring to the tags that are auctioned off both at the expo and at the banquets. Those are the tags that also other organizations go after at the same time at the DWR office. All those organizations auction off tags that are taken out of the draw. So to everyone, why is it always SFW that is blamed for robbing these tags from the public when all the groups do it. They do not have to take the tags, so are they not also robbing tags from the public draw?
 
Muley, you know what I mean. I've been away for awhile, looks like not much has changed with your seemingly endless decision to keep sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the facts regarding the dark side of this coin.
 
>Griz, I do understand the
>difference but when I was
>bringing up the tags I
>was referring to the tags
>that are auctioned off both
>at the expo and at
>the banquets. Those
>are the tags that also
>other organizations go after at
>the same time at the
>DWR office. All those
>organizations auction off tags that
>are taken out of the
>draw. So to everyone,
>why is it always SFW
>that is blamed for robbing
>these tags from the public
>when all the groups do
>it. They do not have
>to take the tags, so
>are they not also robbing
>tags from the public draw?
>

Birdman, I've never used the term "robbing" about SFW. Others may have said they were stealing tags, I haven't. I believe they take the tags and don't necessarily return top dollar to the public resource in the most efficient way; but how would we know? SFW's 2011 taxes and the $900,000 of miscellaneous expenses only legitimize those concerns.

SFW does get special treatment that nobody else gets by receiving Convention Tags, revenue from putting on the Convention (which couldn't happen without the tags), and apparently tax dollars as well.

Unlike with Conservation Tags, there is ABSOLUTELY NO GUARANTEE that 90% of Convention Tag money goes back to the wildlife, this is purely a revenue-raising venture for SFW.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
How would you lump this media coverage then?

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/outdoors/51462066-117/release-groups-forever-game.html.csp

"Three of the most powerful pro-hunting organizations in the country fired some sharp criticism Friday at Salt Lake City-based Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife and its subsidiary, Big Game Forever.

The National Rifle Association, Safari Club International and Congressional Sportsmen Caucus said they strongly support legislation before Congress to delist gray wolves under the Endangered Species Act. But the three groups say the two Utah organizations are claiming in a draft news release that they are opposing the legislation, an allegation that "blatantly misrepresents" the groups' position.

In a Friday news release, they urged the media and congressional offices to "thoroughly investigate and independently confirm" any claims the Utah groups make."

____________________________

I hunt. I fish. I VOTE.

Get the F out of SFW
 
Birdman,

The short answer to your question is No!

For someone who seems to be so knowledgeable about this topic you sure seem to be missing the boat.

Most guys do not have any problem at all with the conservation tags that any of these organizations are "going after".

There are some very strict rules in place defining what is to be done with the monies raised from those tags ensuring that the vast majority goes back to projects on the ground to support conservation.

Now, the convention tags on the other hand have no such restrictions.

A) there are a bunch of convention tags that no other org benefits from
B) the monies from those tags are not required to be accounted for or does it have to go back to projects on the ground

This is not an SFW thing for the sake of SFW. I would have the same concern if this was being done by RMEF, DU, etc. it just so happens that SFW is the one benefiting from these tags. When asked multiple times to show the Sportsmen what they are doing with these monies, which they have promised to do time and time again, they continue to fall short and have never delivered.

How does that not raise questions in your mind?

I know it does mine and it does for many others out there as well.

That is the issue in a nut shell so stop trying to hide the real issue by lumping all conservation organizations together and claiming they are all doing the same thing because that is simply not true.


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
>Grizz you did it again! You
>stole the words right out
>of my mouth. I really
>couldn't agree with you more
>on this issue and like
>you I also see this
>group as our number one
>nemisis as do-it -your- self
>hunters who don't only hunt
>when we draw some sought
>after tag or are well
>off enough to purchase such
>tags.We are on the mountain
>every fall thrilled to have
>have the oppurtunity to possibly
>have the hunt of a
>life time. SFW couldn't give
>a ##### less about people
>like me! I don't have
>enough fundage to buy some
>auction tag and I like
>to hunt way too much
>to sit around and wait
>'till I draw a henery's
>deer tag before I get
>off the couch. General hunters
>are the ones taking it
>up the can with no
>lube from these guys. I
>have to admit there was
>a time I was a
>member of SFW. I like
>alot of people trusted that
>this group was going to
>do great things with my
>money and that's how these
>type of organizations worked right?
> After a few years
>of paying dues and attending
>the local banquets and asking
>detailed questions pertaining to our
>local wildlife and issues we
>were having at that time.
>I just flat out couldn't
>ever get any straight forward
>answers to my questions and
>I always had certain people
>telling me I better find
>out who I was dealing
>with and to not assume
>everything is as it seems
>with these guys. Well I'm
>the type of guy who
>has to dig in and
>find answers to these glaring
>question marks. Well I can
>say I dug and dug
>and dug. And to put
>it simply I am no
>longer a member of SFW
>and to be completely honest
>I'm embarrassed and demoralized
> that I ever was.

Demoralized ? Demoralizing is when you join a conservation group work your ass off to raise money, get projects approved , finish the projects, then get on the internet and read what pieces of sh!t you and all your koolade drinking buddies are for doing that work. Its not easy to get things done when it comes to wildlife projects, it takes time, and it doesn't always work. Im just glad there are those out there willing to try. I wish everyone's experience with wildlife conservation was all good with no headaches or problems. I want to make a difference and I will continue to put forth the effort. I don't plan on quitting just because I was told no. That's what we as local chapters are looking for men that won't take no for an answer.

Cache
I hear over on the campfire forum is where the guys that have things put in their cans hangout. They will even lube it for you. :)
 
JMO, if you've spent time working on habitat projects then I really appreciate what you've done. If my concerns about SFW were interpreted as an attack on the "on-the-ground" guys, then I apologize because I never intended it that way.

I have no complaints about the local chapters, they are hard-working guys trying to preserve their passion. It is the management that I have concerns about.

Grizzly

PS. Tristate, please be an adult and respect my wishes that you do not respond to any of my posts. I, in turn, will do you the courtesy of not responding to any of yours. I simply do not wish to converse with you.
 
Glad things are well Robb.

Tallbuck
I've been just guiding and hunting all over. Spend about 6 months a year between New Zealand and Alaska. Pretty good gig and I'm not trading anyone jobs :) Let me know when your ready to book a trip.

FYI, I didnt leave because I was not put into power or did not get a project done I wanted. I did plenty of projects and made lots of money being in a position of power. I left for reasons that a lot of people are finally seeing. No need to rehash those reasons. We all know what is happening.

Glad to see that the same disciples are still carrying the torch. Everyone has to believe in something regardless how outdated and ineffective it is.

Good luck to all of you in the draws.

Tony Abbott
 
"What is so hard to figure out that people want to know exactly where all the money they brought in went to? For example, the 2011 tax filing shows the following:
$172,233 went to Peay Consulting---What did he do for that money?"

Maybe "he" did nothing. Maybe Peay Consulting has other employees? How do you quantify "consulting"? Do you not believe "he" or their time is not worth money? Whats funny in the consulting business is sometimes you get bad ideas and sometimes you get great ideas. Either way you get billed for any idea.

"$189,383 went to "Wolf Campaign"---What does that mean and what was done under that line expense?"

SO you think you deserve to know if they bought a cup of coffee for a politician, or if they had to buy a role of tape. What if it was to pay for gas to go and look for wolves? $189K for wolf campaign sounds like a deal now. Wasn't someone looking for $300k to lobby against wolves last week? Looks like SFW does it cheeper.

"$247,284 went for "Fees & Other Services"---What the heck does that mean with absolutely no breakdown?"

Sounds like you don't think people should be paid for their time.

"$294,299 went to "All Other Expenses"---Again, no breakdown so where did all of it go?"

Probably for bubble gum and fried chicken. Have you ever run a company?

"Conclusion: That's $903,199 "trust us" dollars that the tax filing alone shows was spent with no breakdown of actual usage. If that's just the tax filings alone with what many/most outsiders would probably consider questionable, what would an independent audit Like RMEF undergoes voluntarily show?"


What I like is some here say they want an independent audit each year. Sounds great. DO you think thats free? When they mark down the independent audit cost on their taxes are you going to want a line by line itemized list for that too? How will you feel when SFW approaches the state and says give us some more tags so we can make up the lost revenue from independent audits and legal fees? What are you going to do when you find out DOn Peay gave a stick of gum to a little girl whose parents allready had enough money to buy her own stick of gum and you decide to complain? Guess what happens then? SFW calls Peay consulting and says, "We have a PR problem with the bubblegum scandal down here. What do we do?" Now Peay consulting gets to bill more time to SFW. So by the time you are done your $900k hangup has turned into a $1.8 million monster and the mule deer loses a little more.
 
>Thanks for the post Zim.
>I found it a very
>interesting article to read and
>much better written than the
>garbage that started this thread.
> It actually looked like
>the article was written to
>paint these new wildlife theories
>in a positive light.
>The oposition interviews were nothing
>more than propogandized rants.
>It made the oposition look
>really bad, I am
>surprised that was the best
>the writer could find.
>However the proponents of the
>new plan came off looking
>like they could explain their
>position very clearly. One
>thing the article left me
>wishing for was a timeline
>for Mr. Rossi's public career
>and his accused criminal behavior
>along with prosecution. I
>see this article is from
>a year ago. Does
>anyone know if Mr Rossi
>was convicted and what for?
>
>
>Much Thanks,
>
>Ben

You got me all wrong, moron. I just want to see you go on there to watch you get a new one torn, and a bunch of your time wasted. :)


***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & the SFW Dislike Club
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-13 AT 07:23AM (MST)[p]"" "Peay should realize in all of this that the Kipling tale is also a cautionary one. It describes the ultimate consequences to one who climbs too high and then falls when the myths he has created and promoted are shown to be without merit. What will happen in all of this when the enabling state wildlife agencies realize that they would probably get more value and benefit if they sold these game permits themselves instead of allowing them to be used to build this convoluted financial empire and thinly disguised political machine? And when will the everyday hunters out there understand that they are complicit in enriching these groups who are aggressively creating a system designed expressly to grant their precious rights to the privileged few while they are left with the leavings?"

The state agencies do sell game tags themselves you idiot. ""


When the author makes mention of "these game permits" he is obviously referring to just those specific tags given by the states to auction or raffle by SFW, who take either 10% or are unaccountable for. To imply he is referring to all the tags a state sells to the public is just plain.........well I can't think of another word to use other than stupid? If someone thinks of a better description let me know and I will edit. I don't like to imply mentally handicapped.



***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
Everyone knows that the reason that the State gave in on those convention tags was the revenue that would be brought to the state by the people coming in from out of state and others. That was the reason that the stipulations were put in for the group to obtain the tags. When the convention tags come up again any group can bid for them if they follow the criteria. Therefor if the RMEF wants them or any other group, they can go after them. They just need to meet the criteria. The fact that those tags do raise millions for that week for the economy I am sure that the tags are here to stay.
The DWR as stated that they have no desire to run the tags at the convention. Just as they do not want to run the tags for the state. They have stated it costs to much money and that they would have to hire more people to do the tags and they have no desire to do it.
 
cache,
Seeing the big picture and not getting hung up on little details and internet rumors is not having my head in the sand.

Again, lots and lots of claims. I was involved and just wait till I tell you what I know. its gonna be a bomb its gonna topple the SFW and its leadership....But still nothing. Audits happen, they call meetings and look at the books. And NOTHING. Dig and Dig and Dig...Still waiting for PROOF.

SFW shows what they do, they show the results over and over again.

So you tell me who really has their head in the sand????
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-13 AT 08:33AM (MST)[p]Tristate (667 posts)
Mar-14-13, 06:36 AM (MST)
165. "RE: Don Peay: The Man Who Would Be King...Baron"

"What is so hard to figure out that people want to know exactly where all the money they brought in went to? For example, the 2011 tax filing shows the following:
$172,233 went to Peay Consulting---What did he do for that money?"

Maybe "he" did nothing. Maybe Peay Consulting has other employees? How do you quantify "consulting"? Do you not believe "he" or their time is not worth money? Whats funny in the consulting business is sometimes you get bad ideas and sometimes you get great ideas. Either way you get billed for any idea.

"$189,383 went to "Wolf Campaign"---What does that mean and what was done under that line expense?"

SO you think you deserve to know if they bought a cup of coffee for a politician, or if they had to buy a role of tape. What if it was to pay for gas to go and look for wolves? $189K for wolf campaign sounds like a deal now. Wasn't someone looking for $300k to lobby against wolves last week? Looks like SFW does it cheeper.

"$247,284 went for "Fees & Other Services"---What the heck does that mean with absolutely no breakdown?"

Sounds like you don't think people should be paid for their time.

"$294,299 went to "All Other Expenses"---Again, no breakdown so where did all of it go?"

Probably for bubble gum and fried chicken. Have you ever run a company?

"Conclusion: That's $903,199 "trust us" dollars that the tax filing alone shows was spent with no breakdown of actual usage. If that's just the tax filings alone with what many/most outsiders would probably consider questionable, what would an independent audit Like RMEF undergoes voluntarily show?"

What I like is some here say they want an independent audit each year. Sounds great. DO you think thats free? When they mark down the independent audit cost on their taxes are you going to want a line by line itemized list for that too? How will you feel when SFW approaches the state and says give us some more tags so we can make up the lost revenue from independent audits and legal fees? What are you going to do when you find out DOn Peay gave a stick of gum to a little girl whose parents allready had enough money to buy her own stick of gum and you decide to complain? Guess what happens then? SFW calls Peay consulting and says, "We have a PR problem with the bubblegum scandal down here. What do we do?" Now Peay consulting gets to bill more time to SFW. So by the time you are done your $900k hangup has turned into a $1.8 million monster and the mule deer loses a little more.



***Guys---With this post of mine that Tri inserted all his little BS ditties in, is exactly why everyone says he's a troll and pot stirrer! FYI Mr. Trollstate, RMEF has a line item of $16,000+ showing for their independent audit in their last tax return. Furthermore, your wolf comment about SFW doing it cheaper than the other outfit lobbying for $300,000 is just ludicrous BS since SFW IS the other outfit you mentioned trying for that $300,000 of taxpayers money, LOL! Get informed or quit posting!
Now go take a look at the BGF homepage and others on it's website and all it contains is old BS stuff STILL asking people to DONATE money for the wolf cause that has already been settled. The whole website is all wolf propagada dedicated to getting more people to donate money that may be unaware of the delisting, etc. Incidentally, I wonder why DP and his cronies set up BGF as a LLC, for profit organization, rather than a nonrpofit 501(C)3 operation---Hmm!!!
Oh, and for Birdman and all other SFW workers on this thread who have not made one comment about where that $900,000+ went---Why, or do you consider that chump change that wouldn't do much to help put your pheasants out, etc., for instance? Trust is one thing, but don't you all think that much money should be better accounted for in an independent audit than just several lines on a tax return?
 
Good points Topgun. I guess that the difference is that the IRS is satisfied with what is on the return. Now they can break it down but then again, that costs money for someone to sit down and take care of that. Money that can be going on the ground. SFW is not full of employees like some other organizations. They follow the rules, I know that is not good enough, but they save money by not spending the time to break it down. I guess it comes to the fact that many of the members know what goes on and are not worried about it. The leaders are as honest as can be. It was interesting at the expo with people asking questions, some were from what was on MM, and after receiving answers SFW signed up a record amount of people to memberships. More NEW people than ever before. I guess they like what is going on more and more. Otherwise they would not be growing. Trust is a trait and the leaders of SFW seem to have that trait. People trust them. There are some that do not think so, but more and more are signing up.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-13 AT 09:45AM (MST)[p]>Everyone knows that the reason that
>the State gave in on
>those convention tags was the
>revenue that would be brought
>to the state by the
>people coming in from out
>of state and others.
>That was the reason that
>the stipulations were put in
>for the group to obtain
>the tags. When the
>convention tags come up again
>any group can bid for
>them if they follow the
>criteria. Therefor if the RMEF
>wants them or any other
>group, they can go after
>them. They just need
>to meet the criteria.
>The fact that those tags
>do raise millions for that
>week for the economy I
>am sure that the tags
>are here to stay.
> The DWR
>as stated that they have
>no desire to run the
>tags at the convention.
>Just as they do not
>want to run the tags
>for the state. They
>have stated it costs to
>much money and that they
>would have to hire more
>people to do the tags
>and they have no desire
>to do it.


Any available data on how much revenue is brought in by nonresidents for that Expo when everyone says that very few attend it other than booth workers and kids in college there that might be outstaters? That was a great way to get the Expo, but it would seem there would be someone looking at it to see if the only real revenue being generated is going into the SFW/MDF coffers.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-13 AT 09:43AM (MST)[p]Birdman---Please stop with the "the IRS is satisfied"! All they give a chit about is if a 501(C)3 return appears to show that no profit is being made. It's a far cry from what an independent audit looks at and for you to say it would take a lot of time to have that broken down better is a copout! With all your volunteers it probably wouldn't cost much, if anything, to have a better accounting of each of those lines IF you wanted to really verufy that things are on the up and up like the majority do nowadays on anything involving sums of money. Is it the water out there in Utah that dilutes one's thought processes on this stuff?
PS: I noticed again that you made no attempt really to answer my questions!
 
MUL, What is the big picture you see or are seeing???

>Seeing the big picture and not
>getting hung up on little
>details and internet rumors is
>not having my head in
>the sand.


What is the big picture you see or are seeing??? Please enlighten us with your keen knowledge of SFW!


>
>Again, lots and lots of claims.
> I was involved and
>just wait till I tell
>you what I know.
>its gonna be a bomb
>its gonna topple the SFW
>and its leadership....But still nothing.
>Audits happen, they call meetings
>and look at the books.
> And NOTHING. Dig
>and Dig and Dig...Still waiting
>for PROOF.
>

People do have knowledge of what has happened and what was told yet deceit followed. Hence why there are so many X members of SFW who are vocal and do want to again have answers to there questions. BUT YET THERE IS NO what you call PROOF from any of the SFW guys because they don't even know the answers from DP. He talks out both sides of his mouth. But yet you get on here and preach that you know it all... But do what you want and pretend to know the big picture of what you call PROOF.



>So you tell me who really
>has their head in the
>sand????


Knowledge is power and knowing what I saw and lived through for 8 years is NOT me having my head in the sand.


Tallbuck1
 
"***Guys---With this post of mine that Tri inserted all his little BS ditties in, is exactly why everyone says he's a troll and pot stirrer! FYI Mr. Trollstate, RMEF has a line item of $16,000+ showing for their independent audit in their last tax return."

$16,000. For what? No more clarity than that. You can't see where every single penny went into the audit. Audit What? Maybe they just looked at the water bill and that was it. Independent Audit can mean about 16,000 different things. RMEF won't give you more info than just the words "independent audit"!. HOW COULD YOU EVER TRUST THEM? By the way Topgun, no audit is truely "independent" when the company footing the bill is the company being audited.

" Furthermore, your wolf comment about SFW doing it cheaper than the other outfit lobbying for $300,000 is just ludicrous BS since SFW IS the other outfit you mentioned trying for that $300,000 of taxpayers money, LOL! Get informed or quit posting!"

Well sounds like you should be happy that they have increased spending on the wolf lobby.

"Now go take a look at the BGF homepage and others on it's website and all it contains is old BS stuff STILL asking people to DONATE money for the wolf cause that has already been settled."

Have you been in the medicine cabinet? Settled what?

" The whole website is all wolf propagada dedicated to getting more people to donate money that may be unaware of the delisting, etc. Incidentally, I wonder why DP and his cronies set up BGF as a LLC, for profit organization, rather than a nonrpofit 501(C)3 operation---Hmm!!!"

Maybe to make money. What is wrong with that? Oh wait I forgot this is class warfare for you and money is evil.

"Oh, and for Birdman and all other SFW workers on this thread who have not made one comment about where that $900,000+ went---Why, or do you consider that chump change that wouldn't do much to help put your pheasants out, etc., for instance? Trust is one thing, but don't you all think that much money should be better accounted for in an independent audit than just several lines on a tax return?"

To them chump change is 900K. To you it is 16K for an "independent" audit.
 
"Birdman---Please stop with the "the IRS is satisfied"! All they give a chit about is if a 501(C)3 return appears to show that no profit is being made."

You are smoking a lot of drugs if you think the IRS only cares about a bottom line for a 501C3.
 
Take a hike with all your silly azz arguing just to put up another post that's negative to what anyone posts! In case you haven't heard, the wolf has been delisted in all the states in the lower 48 that it is now known to inhabit. The BGF website has never been changed and is still showing everyting before the first delisting took place like nothing has happened and more money is needed to get them delisted. As far as your other comments, they aren't worth the time to respond, which is generally the case when you post your BS!
 
"Take a hike with all your silly azz arguing just to put up another post that's negative to what anyone posts! In case you haven't heard, the wolf has been delisted in all the states in the lower 48 that it is now known to inhabit. The BGF website has never been changed and is still showing everyting before the first delisting took place like nothing has happened and more money is needed to get them delisted. As far as your other comments, they aren't worth the time to respond, which is generally the case when you post your BS!"

You think delisting the wolf was the end of the war? Good luck with that mentality. We got polar bears off the Marine mammal protection act. Where are they now? A bunch of people like you thought that war was over too. If you think the ESA is the only way antihunters operate you are lost. You sit around and worry about what antis did. I think about what they are going to do.
 
There you go again as always with more twisting and putting out BS that was not said. I stated their website still had all the same information showing that the wolf has never even been delisted, not that there aren't still fights ahead with all the huggers and people like you.
 
After before I decided I would never do this, but tristate, you have to be one of the worst people on MM to try to stir up controversy. There is no question that you really only try to stir up things and not putting anything useful out. Tis being said, I will not comment anymore on Tristate and if all ignore him maybe things will become a little more clear.
 
Birdman---It's about like trying to forget you have hemorrhoids, because you still constantly have that pain in the azz no matter how you try to forget about it or get rid of it, LOL!
 
"After before I decided I would never do this, but tristate, you have to be one of the worst people on MM to try to stir up controversy. There is no question that you really only try to stir up things and not putting anything useful out. Tis being said, I will not comment anymore on Tristate and if all ignore him maybe things will become a little more clear."


All this on a thread that was started by a career anti-hunting soldier (Ferris), and I am the one guy that outed him. So I am the guy stirring up stuff. You literaly have men on this forum who are promoting anti-hunter Propoganda, and you think the guy that is ready to take them on is the pot stirer?????????? What is wrong with you?
 
Nothing, and if there was, losing you from this website would be an immediate and miraculous cure in both cases!!!
 
"Nothing, and if there was, losing you from this website would be an immediate and miraculous cure in both cases!!!"


Topgun, are you posing as Birdman? Are you having a hard time keeping track of your personalities.
 
haha if MM was a theater, tri would have been arrested long time ago for yelling "fire" . don't know why he is allowed to still disrupt things so much.
 
Mr jaswayne, I disrupt posts that are started by anti-hunters (this one), posts that promote classwarfare, posts that stand in the way of wildlife conservation, and posts that are started for no other reason but to be a personal attack.
 
>haha if MM was a
>theater, tri would have been
>arrested long time ago for
>yelling "fire" . don't
>know why he is allowed
>to still disrupt things so
>much.

No, I'm the one would have been arrested for yelling "FIRE".

I have no idea why each side of this issue thinks their work is so critical to post this many times with simplistic tit-for-tac bickering. I've not seen anyone change their mind!

Some of you guys are going to give yourselves a stroke!

Zeke

PS: It is fun to read however. lol
 
This has been hashed over so many times it's not even funny and your right, no one is going to change their minds.

But, keep it going cause we are almost to the 200 mark

:)


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
>This has been hashed over so
>many times it's not even
>funny and your right, no
>one is going to change
>their minds.
>

AMEN, the only thing that changes is the people who respond on SFW's behalf and they think that those who have been around the block are blinded and by some miracle they are going to change our minds because they have seen the light... PUKE!!




Tallbuck1
 
ZEKE,

Your wrong:)

I just changed my mind. I am going to join SFW right now because of all the good things that Birdy, Tri and M73 have said.

Where do I sign?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
NOT!
 
>ZEKE,
>
>Your wrong:)
>
>I just changed my mind.
>I am going to join
>SFW right now because of
>all the good things that
>Birdy, Tri and M73 have
>said.
>
>Where do I sign?
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>NOT!

I thought they had you... thanks for coming back to the light!



Tallbuck1
 
Lol, that is a good point. I have not posted for awhile. Maybe ask around and you'll actually find out how long I've been involved. How long I've attended meetings and stayed informed.

Ask willy if I understand the process and the big picture. Good times gents good times!
 
From another forum, thought it applied here... It was mentioned about the pheasant release here in Utah, but the though applies don't ya think?

"HOPE" is not a very good "business plan"... ask any successful business person, and they'll tell ya... "HOPE" doesn't do sh*t for you...


Yup, "hope" is right up there with "try" on my list of worthless words...

Tryin' and hopin' don't get it done!


I thought it was the government that was the biggest waster of money. Now we can add SFW to that list!


Tallbuck1
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-13 AT 03:03PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-13 AT 03:01?PM (MST)

tall,
So when you wanted the pheasants it was a good plan. Now it is happening and it is a waste of money.
 
>tall,
>So when you wanted the pheasants
>it was a good plan.
> Now it is happening
>and it is a waste
>of money.
>
>

To some degree yes and to some degree no. Thanks for asking!

But to answer your question...
Someone elses opinion, thought it was funny and pertained to this conversation...



Tallbuck1
 

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