G3 in the Winter---- observations

[nickman]

Well, we had another pretty good storm over the last couple days, so I thought I better go check the herd.

Obviously, the rut is over and now the deer are acting like deer again and 500 yards is about their limit for tourists.

In 3 seperate canyons, I probably saw over 300 deer.

I actually counted 135 legal bucks, but only 2 whose sheds I would bother to pick up and NO serious G3 quality bucks. There is a solid 28" forky and a very heavy, very wide 4x4, busted up so bad that he almost looks like a Longhorn steer. Fully 75% of them have broken antlers, to some degree or another.

The down side is that the Big Guys' have not shown this winter at all......we have MANY people looking for them. Several guides have been scouting the winter herd and the tule elk herds.

The Sierra Big Horn sheep have moved back up, so possibly, the older bucks are still able to feed at some higher altitudes.....optimistic.

The up side is, there are many, many legal bucks that should show some good antler growth for the 2009 seasons. X9B, X9A and X12 should be good this fall.

The winter range is in AAA shape and we will have zero starvation issues in the area.

The bottom line here, is that there WILL be plenty of deer for the 2009 season and the G3....as it stands now, will still have possibilities.

Anybody with questions, feel free to ask. Unless I tip over, I will still be in it next season.

 

[sageadvice]

Very nice report Nickman. Love hearing about those deer in that area. Thank You!!

How is your goal of getting set up to take good pic's coming?

Joey

 

[nickman]

Will discuss the failure of a new $700 Canon DVD camera at a later date....when I see how Canon responds.

It would appear that my calendar will have to be the 2010 version, at this point.

 

[Wiszard]

You're a helluva guy, Nickman. Thanks for the info. Nice to hear that the herd is doing well. I've got dibs on that 28" forkie!! That would make a sweet mount. Too bad Leupold doesn't make cameras....they'd have already sent you a brand new one. Good luck with it.

Steve

 

[nickman]

Steve, Funny you should mention Leupold.

Over the years, I have had several problems that they have fixed.....some clearly my fault. There is NO substitute for good customer service.

I seriously doubt that Canon is going to be anything like the guys at Leupold Stevens.

I WILL keep everyone posted.

 

[Naildriver]

Good info nickman. I don't have a chance to draw G3(1 less than max). I'll be keeping an eye on X12 and X9a....

 

[Model_70_Guy]

>Anybody with questions, feel free to
>ask. Unless I tip over,
>I will still be in
>it next season.

Well Nick I only have one question...

How the hell do I draw one of those damn G3 tags?

I thought Wizard and I had it all figured out last year but didn't happen..

I'll probably be dead before I get one of those tags...

Jim

 

[nickman]

An open zone auction tag went for $8k last week............there are still a couple left.

 

[Wiszard]

Hell Jim....if we add up all the change we've got laying around, we can probably come up with $8K a piece!? Seriously though, I'd have figured they'd go for more than that.

Steve

 

[Model_70_Guy]

Only 8k? Such a deal.. I am going to start rolling up my pennys.. lol

It sure would be neat to draw that tag once and spend the whole season over there looking for a good buck.

Maybe one of these years..

Jim

 

[BOHNTR]

Here's one from two weeks ago....

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[tylercreek2]

wtf?

 

[brownie]

+1 Nickman, keep up the good work.
Thanks, Doug.

 

[ASB]

Hello Nickman....

I have been following your CA posts with interest the last 6 months. You seem to know the Bishop area pretty well & I know the G3 guys were grateful of all your help. I would like to take you up on your offer of asking questions if that is still on the table. I am mainly wanting an opinion & you seem to be pretty straight with your answers. We haven't hunted there in four years, but we have been lucky enough to have taken some 25" plus bucks off of the east side of the Whites in 9C when you could get the tag on a second choice. My questions are mainly about access roads that may have been put in since I've been down there. If the offer still stands, please let me know...either here or via email [email protected]

If not, no worries. Thanks for all your pics......love the country down there.

Dino Ielmorini

 

[nickman]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-09 AT 09:57PM (MST)[p]Dino....X9c probably holds the largest bucks in this section of California. They are true mule deer and do not cross the valley to breed with the Sierra herds.

During their rut and winter migration, they head East, into the lower ranges on the Nevada and Death Valley side of the mountains.

Problem is, there are very few deer in that zone, period. The habitat is harsh and water VERY scarce.

The upside to that is, we have camped in there several years, filled 4 tags and never saw another hunter in 5 days. We don't fill our tags every year.....but it ain't crouded.

As you stated, when we were able to draw that zone as a second choice, it was pretty cool. You put in for the G3, then X9c. When they cut the tags in half some years back, that went out the window.

As far as access roads go, we actually lost some to "wilderness" and will surely lose more.

You can still pretty much get on top of the ranges, but then you have to plan your hunts to get well away from the roads. These deer are very shy and stay well into the Juniper forests.

We try to hunt the routes to the few water sources, but an early snow will toss that plan.

Historically, the guys that take horses in are most successful overall, but you really need to plan on several days in that zone either way. It ain't easy.

Hope this helps, let me know if you draw and I'll "map you up".

 

[ASB]

Well, you are as advertised. No need to map it up.....I have no prob telling where we have done good, I have quietly put my time in. To put it very mild, we get out of the truck @ 5:00AM when we hike up the west side in the Mongomery area & really don't get to where we need to be until 8:00AM. These deer aren't really spooky from what I have seen...they seem to stay in groups. When we come in the east side it's usually to camp in Leidy or Indian. None of those spots are secrets from what I know, always a lot of people....nobody is really willing to hike all the way in & that is the difference for us. We usually see a guide with horses in the Perry Aiken area. I have been to a lot of places...these mtns are as tough a hike as any. Sorry to babble.......my question is....did they add more roads in the Davis Cr & Chiatovich areas in NV that come into CA? I am from Petaluma & to drive there to look over the access is too long of a trip for just that. I heard they added roads there for additional access.....heck, now that I think about it, that probably isn't even an issue for my question...the simple math now is there are so few tags, it probably doesn't matter. I would love to talk to you sometime......there are some big deer up & down that mtn range......very tough to get to them.

Thanks for the reply!!!

 

[ASB]

I just re-read your reply. I was always told, and you state the same thing, these deer are true rocky mtn mulies. I will not disagree, but there must be different strains, especially that herd. We have taken 6 bucks there since 02. Only one looked like it was a NV or WY deer. The others had short faces, 20" ears +/-, dark hides & short bodies, which leads to lighter weights than what I would think is a rocky deer & they were healthy with a lot of fat.

Please, by no means am I a biologist, nor am I doubting what they are....just some observations regarding the deer we have taken. The one buck that was different was just the opposite....grey hide, long face, 23" ears, longer body & pushing 275 on the hoof.

My points are gone, so I will probably be down there whether we see deer or not....it is an awesome mtn range & a lot of fun if there is any snow!!

 

[YukonDall]

HEY PICKLE.......NICE MOVE.......THATS ONEWAY OF LOOKIN AT IT I GUESS...........YD.

 

[tmoniz]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-26-09 AT 11:31AM (MST)[p]I guess I'll chime in.
I called a good friend in Bishop while the Goodale hunt was going on and asked how it was going.
His reply was "the Circus was in Town."
More looky Lews than hunters.
I was even told that there were people that drove around proir to the hunt taking videos of some nice deer and then trying to sell the whereabouts to those camped out with a Tag.
And that a lot of Guides came out of nowhere with clients who got that tag.

Now I have trekked 9c quite a bit. And I must say the Mule Deer there are not the biggest. There are some very fine bucks there but not the biggest.

If you want to see a Mule Deer Migration and some very large Bucks. Go North of Bridgeport just East of the 395 and watch.
Or just South of the Warners in the North East.

The deer in the Eastern Sierra once weather hits come down for a short period of time but move back up to the Crest.

People seem to forget that the Kern River Migratory Hunt and the Anderson Flat hunt produce some very large Mule Deer Bucks.

Not to mention if you have a D6 Tag in your pocket and the weather hits around Crocker Ridge just outside of Yosemite Park.
You could run into a very good Buck.

Just my 2 Cents.

 

[Hardway]

>Not to mention if you have
>a D6 Tag in your
>pocket and the weather hits
>around Crocker Ridge just outside
>of Yosemite Park.
>You could run into a very
>good Buck.
>
>Just my 2 Cents.

Gees, dont be givin away secret spots. Are you serious? Last I heard crocker was a road hunt only area.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

 

[mulebuck]

I take it ol' kosherpickles is a 'one post ghost'. I hope he comes back to visit us. What a great addition to the family!

As for the deer in X9C... I can't tell you a percentage but the majority of them are Inyo muledeer and not rocky mtn muleys.

As Nickman said, we'll be losing many roads due the 400,000 acre wilderness bill that passed. These 'wilderness zombies' won't stop there either. I think they want the whole world pristine. Look but don't touch!!! Most of them visit this area once a year and don't understand the daily recreational uses it provides for us locals. I should just stop there...

 

[ASB]

PM sent to both

 

[SirGlassalot]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-09 AT 10:29PM (MST)[p]>I guess I should have clarified
>my statement.
>
>According to both CA DFG and
>NV DFG, once you leave
>the western slope of the
>valley and reach the crest
>of the White, Inyo and
>Coso ranges, the deer ARE
>true Rocky Mountain species.

I don't know about Nevada but California DFG classifies deer in X9C as 'Inyo' Mule Deer. Not Rocky Mountain.

30 years ago, the White mtns were known for producing some bombers but they were few and far between. That was the place to go for a really big buck but there wasn't a ton of pressure up there because deer were easier to find in the Sierras (ya i said Sierras - i've never heard anyone say 'Sierra' when referring to the mtns on the west side of the Owens Valley).
But when they fragmented the zones, X9C became a sure thing in the draw (second and even third choice would draw it) and started getting hammered year after year by 850 tagholders. This went on for a long time and these people that kept drawing this tag every year because they couldn't draw anthing else (this was before any kind of point system) got to know the zone really well, and it eventually took a toll on the herd.
DFG has since cut the tags to 350. Hopefully this will help the herd make a comeback.
I hunted this zone for 12 years straight (archery and rifle) because it's all I could draw. I just can't agree with the statement that this zone holds the biggest bucks in this part of California. One year I took first place in a big buck contest for X9C (I won a Ruger .270) with a 24 inch 4pt. Second place was a 26 inch 3pt (a nicer buck than mine imo). That's pretty sad. Try winning a contest in a Sierra zone with a 24 inch 4pt. Ain't happenin.
No way those are true Rocky Mtn mule deer and if they were, I would say that's the poorest Rocky Mtn mule deer gene pool ever.

 

[BomberBlackies]

Joey, this is getting good. I think I'll relax and pop open a Sierra(s) Nevada Torpedo. Thanks boys for the insight on G3. I know no that I wont be applying for that unit. I think I'll put in for D14.

 

[YukonDall]

JOEY......NOT EXACTLY .....NICKMAN DID NOT GUIDE ANY HUNTER WHEN I WAS OVER THERE THAT I SAW.....OR MY 3 TAG HOLDING FRIENDS. WHAT HE CAN DO IS EXPLAIN DEER BEHAVIOR, TRENDS, POINTS OUT LAND MARKS, AND HE KNOWS THE HISTORY OF THE UNIT/MOST OF THE OTHER ZONES AS WELL. THESE GUYS WENT OUT AND BURNED BOOT LEATHER EVERYDAY, GLASSED, & BUSTED THERE HUMP. SOME OF THESE HUNTERS SCORED....SOME DID NOT SCORE. WE DID REALLY ENJOY HIS COMPANY AT THE CAMP FIRE MOST NIGHTS THOUGH....THE GUY IS A KICK IN THE PANTS............YD.

 

[sageadvice]

YD, i hope you saw the tongue in cheek of my comment.

Thank you for the input YD, just confirms my belief that Nickman ain't hurting nothing.

Joey

 

[tmoniz]

Interesting how this topic was cleaned up.

T

 

[YukonDall]

I THINK SAD IS MORE IN ORDER, MAKES ME NOT WANT TO VISIT THE CALIFORNIA SECTION ANYMORE. MODS NEED TO KNOW WHEN TO PULL BACK.............YD.

 

[sawdust]

Nickman,
Any more reports as to how the deer herd is doing this year?
Thanks.
Sawdust

 

[nickman]

Right now, there are probably about 10 bucks in the entire G3.

They live in the willows along the creek beds year round.

The "herd" is all back into the Kern Plateau, eating Oreos' and apple cores, from all the "nature fakers" and won't be back until there is some snow.

 

[sawdust]

Thanks Nickman. I am just trying to figure out the G3 zone. But, it looks like I will have to wait until Oct./Nov. or so.
Thanks.
Sawdust

 

[flemen]

Ya, thanks Uncle Don!

Can't wait for more updates...

 

[sawdust]

Nickman,
When is the best time to scout the area? After the first snow flies?
Sawdust

 

[nickman]

Well, that question has a hook in it.

If you want to see the terrain and get familiar with that, it is one thing. You can do that any time of the year. The smart move, is to come over and hunt quail and chuckar in October, as the actual G3 is one of the best areas for that also.

Keep in mind that the G3, is in the south end of the X9b regular zone and 350 guys beat it up pretty good in Sept and Oct....(not counting archery guys) They pull 5 or 6 real nice deer out of the "pre G3" section every year, IF we can catch an early storm.

Unfortunately, the county line, which is barely at the crest, is the western edge of both the X9b and the G3 zone, so the deer on the plateau are not huntable until they migrate onto the Eastern slope of the range.

The Kern Plateau is only about 7 miles into the range, so if we get a storm on, say, Friday night, by Sunday morning a lot of deer can move down.

They will follow the snowline back up just as quickly, when it clears. Until it freezes on the plateau and the feed goes dormant, the deer have no reason to leave.

This ain't Colorado, where the herds might have to travel 70 miles to get onto winter range.

Our deer are spoiled, they can travel for one day and completely change their habitat. Typical Californians.

We do have a small population of animals that live yearound in the scrub flats, at the base of the mountains, but they are VERY difficult to locate.

Some locals have taken incredible deer from this area, but they have put in many, many, hours of scout time......almost impossible to do if you don't live here.

There are literally blocks of land, 5 miles to the side, with no road access whatsoever. Stringers that you could lose a freight train in, are common. There is no high ground to speak of, so it is difficult to just pick a spot and glass.

If you actually want to see a G3 quality buck, you are going to have to wait until some serious snow hits the Kern Plateau......or until the rut starts in November.

Hiking into the backcountry early is pretty much a bust also, since the John Muir trail.........and all it's hikers and fishermen, have the area looking like Disneyland, again, until the snow falls and runs them out also.

We may or may not have a good winter to move the deer early, but the rut won't wait for that.

Granted, some of the older bucks will stay in the Kern if there are no storms, but for the most part, when the rut is on, everyone comes out for the "festivities".

No matter what, these deer are herd animals, so when the herd moves, even the old guys want/have to stay in somewhat close proximity to the crowd.

It's the safety factor, even if they have gone beyond the actual rut process, the big old guys still remain social. Kinda like me, I still like to see a little "fluff" now and then, but I ain't about to start a fight over it, with some stud half my age.

Hope this helps, sorry about the length.

Remember, this is all just my opinion, and as such, is subject to the "BS clause", whereby someone else will be free to offer an alternative viewpoint.

 

[sawdust]

Nickman,
Thanks for the thoughts. The idea of a quail/chuckar hunt in October is a good idea. I am going to have to work on that. That would be a good time to check things out a bit. Maybe do it before the fishing season closes also and do a little fly fishing on the side.

I do want to learn more about the area and how to hunt it. The snow should fly before Thanksgiving - at least up high.
Thanks.
Sawdust

 

[flemen]

Thanks again Uncle Don!