Gaza

3

30inchbuck

Guest
Well figured something would have been started about this subject already.

But since no one else is I will.

Hamas has been picking this fight with those rockets for too too long. Israel needed to do this for a long time now.

What blows me away is how come more are not supporting Israel in this effort?????

Israel on one side really just wants what everyone wants to be left alone.

Hamas wants what all extreamist muslims wants - the destruction of Israel.

What am I missing about this?
 
What you're missing is after WWII the UN, mainly us and England decided to throw the Palistinians out of their homeland and give it to the Jews. as you can imagine this didn't sit too too well with the Palistinians or the arab community.

So today we give huge sums of money to Israel and where do you think those F-16's and choppers came from? this is why we're at odds with the arabs, pure and simple.

The Palistinians are dirt poor, with nothing to give them hope, they look across the border at the people they try to get jobs scrubbing floors from in what used to be their land and all they can feel is hate. they know we made this happen and finance their oppression along with supplying the weapons that kill them and the hate for us grows as well.

So what should we do? what can we do? good question with no good answer. the only hope I see is an agreement between them that they may not like they can live with. this agreement must be forced, and enforced by the UN with the bulk of it falling on us since Israel is our baby. by forced I mean military action will be taken against any infraction, and yes Israel will toe the line as well. to say the Palistinians are at fault is not only unfair it's untrue, the reason the rest of the world is reserved about Israel because they know this fact we ignore. they're both at fault
 
Dude, are you serious? Hamas may claim to be poor as dirt but they started this latest fiasco by lobbing bombs into Isreal. Period. Didn't they (Hamas) violate the cease fire agreement??
I bet if us friggin rednecks from northern Kalifornicated starting lobbing artillery into the vicinity of your location in Liberal Oregon, you'd return the favor with some viciousness. F--- Hamas, Isreal needs to wipe them off the face of the earth! They are terrorist plain and simple. You sound like my dad who hated Jews because of something that happened many years ago. Damn, I wonder how much money uncle Sam sends over to the Palestinians every year. Maybe thats why they are dirt poor.
Do you think Hilter had the right idea?
 
I'm glad that Israel does not care what everyone else thinks and takes care of business.
In the last 5 years or so about 6000 rockets have smashed into Israel. How many countries would let this happen and not protect their people.
 
So the kids in the second school Israel bombed today were terrorist? you can't say Israel has the right to wipe out the palistinians because a few terrorist operate there. Palistinians are dirt poor,they make the Mexican neigbors we have look rich, and just like the Mexicans the Palistinians travel to Israel to do the jobs nobody else wants. those missles are smuggled in to Palistine by Hamas and their cooperators not bought by Palistinian peasants.

Yes Israel has the right to defend itself to a point, but if they tried to get along they would have less reason to have missles shot at them. if a deal was made and an organized Palistinian state was created then Hamas could be delt with as an outlaw regime in cooperation with the Palistinian government. as long as Israel kills civilians as if they were sand rats no peace will ever be found, with every innocent Palistinian killed Israel makes a family of revenge seekers. the rest of the world will see to it the Palistinians aren't the victims of genocide so forget that solution, and even if you did then Syria, Iran, ect. would take their place.

There are two sides to this story, the rest of the world sees it and that's why Israel gets the cold shoulder. if you choose to think it's one sided you're in the right country, but that only prolongs the bloodshed on both sides and expense to us. there needs to be a deal and BOTH sides need to be FORCED to uphold it, if not your grandkids will be having this same conversation years from now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-09 AT 10:54AM (MST)[p]Hamas was elected in a closely monitored election to be the government for the Palistinian, they beat the Fatah party handily.

If they wanted to be viewed as a legitmate member of the international community they needed to act responsibly that has not happened. Israel is really in a no win situation IMO. They could just sit back and let Hamas continue to lob missiles into their towns or they could go on the offensive.

Hamas has shown no willingness to behave in an acceptable manner, they will not control their own members, they use the missile launches as an excuse for the harsh way Israel treats them. They are dirt poor however instead of choosing to spend the money other Arab countries plus Iran gives them helping their own they choose to import missles through their tunnels into Egypt.

We are not going to abandon Israel, that is a pipe dream. So we are always blamed right along with Israel whenever they do these invasions.

What would the American Public insist on if Mexico lobbed even one Missile into Texas? The politicians would either act or be voted out.

Israel has been here before and they know that the U.S. will not allow the security council to pass a resolution with any teeth and that they can go into Gaza anytime they want.

Nemont
 
In any war that is fought in the streets and the defenders are using civilians as shields. Yes there will be civilian casualties.

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

Just googled Israel and found the web site above. Seems like this guy has the facts laid out correctly. Also seems that Israel have been trying very very hard at being good neighbors while this whole time there neighbors have been tring to kill each and every one of them - no matter if they are soilders or civialians.

This conflict has been going on since the old Testament days. Sure it will go on for long after our grandchildren have gone. Israel has been too too nice in the past trying to "Just get along" I think it is high time they kicked some butt. Hopefully this time they won't be so nice.
 
Israel has problems with segments of their population like everywhere, the tough guy, time to kick some butt thing is what the rocket attacks were trying to provoke,the majority within Israels political body are smart enough to understand all this, the innocents that are killed are the most important part of all this, thats what Hamas counts on " yes there will be civilian casualties"
 
Who are killed with the rocket attacks??? No military targets - just civilians.
 
The kids in that gaza school weren't terrorist's.....yet. Now they won't be for sure.








great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
494742f95c53a850.jpg
 
Actually I think this act made more radicals then there were students killed. It gave Hamas a bloody shirt to wave.

Plus children are innocent victims of this, on both sides. If you mourn Israeli women and children and not Palistinian then you are saying Israeli blood is more important. You will never stop this cycle of violence until both sides agree that it in their best interests to stop. They haven't figured that out for thousands of years.

The bombing of the school is exactly the kind of thing Hamas and others can use to show on Al Jazeera how inhumane the Jews are for killing children.


Nemont
 
Dude, are you sure that there were kids in that second school that was bombed today? How many children were killed? Maybe it was a mothers milk factory. Please check your facts and let us know if there were any kids in the school. Thanks for checking.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-09 AT 05:07PM (MST)[p]it doesn't matter whether there were kids there or not. The propganda value is already there. Do you think Hamas cares if there really was children in that school?

It looks like from the video taken by the Israeli UAV that Hamas was firing from a position either in or right next to the school. Do you think that video will ever been seen on al Jazeera or even any European television, probably won't make any of our MSM outlets either. This is a public relations gold mine for Hamas. They will plant children in there if they have to.


Nemont
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-06-09 AT 06:05PM (MST)[p]Blackie, reports say Israeli shells killed 30 people seeking shelter at the school, women and children were amoung the dead. check it out yourself, thanks

I'm not defending the Palistinians , but to say Israel has the right to kill as many civilians as they need to is wrong. would you say a bomb dropped on your house killing your family is a price we have to pay to take a bad guy living next door to you out? that's different right? because you have rights and they don't? or because you're not a muslim of no value? which is it?

Israel is between a rock and a hard place and every innocent muslim they kill creates more hatred which brings more bombers and more assets to be used against them.

I doubt there will ever be peace in the middle east but this is a sure way to prevent it, again I say a forced truce or forget it nothing else will work. I just wish there was an Israel support check off box on my tax form so I had a choice in donating to the cause, both sides are at fault so I resent funding either one.
 
Everything or anything can be used as propaganda by hamas....they wrote the book. Kill them all...young and old or continue to let them rain terror on you. Those are the 2 choices Isreal has. Sad but true.


great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
494742f95c53a850.jpg
 
For that to work you'd have to kill every muslim not just the Palisinians. even if we had the ability to do that Russia and China would give the arabs the capibility to take Israel out.

Come to think of it that would solve it, good idea.
 
Hey Dude, when your putting your "Good Idea" into motion, why don't you just go ahead and have them take you out while they're at it, then people on this site will no longer have to suffer through all your worthless ideological BS.
Plus, you'll have complete and unbiased facts on the whole Christianity vs. Atheism conflict.
 
Hmmm, justmuleys with just one post, gee I wonder who you could be in your other life? what's the matter too much of a puss to say what you want under your regular name? good greif nobody knows or cares what your real name is let alone any of your MM names, pathetic.

It's guys like you who keep this stuff fun. thanks
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-09 AT 01:01AM (MST)[p]Dude, D-13, and Nemont those are all excellent points! Hamas is the afterbirth of Arafat and gains it's largest draw on anti-semetic propaganda. However Hamas is only a fraction of the Palistinian peoples, the other would be those that belong to Fatah.

The Israelis made concessions and removed settlements in the Gaza much to the vehement protest by the Israeli citizens in those settlements. They were accused of destroying or burning buildings behind them, rather than turning them over vacant for the Palestinians.

When Hamas had gained political power it came under great speculation if they could properly take care of the citizens. Under Hamas rule they have squandered millions on missles instead of social services.

The U.N. was supposed to go in a decade ago and remove Hamas before they gained political power. Oddly enough our Marines evacuated a lot of those Ex-Arafat top guys that control Hamas today when the Israelis had Arafat boxed in.

If there were a group of Mexicans running around Tijuana firing rockets into San Diego because it used it belong to Mexico we would in turn respond to our defense. The big question is Israel's heavy handed response with the acceptance of heavy Collateral Damage while the enemy is runnign around and deliberately launching from heavily populated civilian sites througout the area.

They could dispatch ground strike teams, but their casualty figures would increase dramatically. So Israel plays right into the hands of Hamas placing the local citizenry as unwilling fodder for the cause.

Israel's goal is to place such a high retaliatory price that it will end the rocket and suicide attacks. At face value it makes sense, other than it becomes a rallying cry for Palestinians to align theirselves with Hamas.

This is extremely localized but these Hamas guys will just go underground and I think the Israeli's are going to wait them out this time.

We need to stay away and let them work it out. Hopefully Obama will denounce both sides in hopes of a diplomatic solution. My heart goes out to the innocent victims on both sides of this never ending conflict.

Here is the compromise: The Israeli's could committ mass suicide, that would make Hamas happy. Or all the Hamas supporters could simply live peacefully, abandoned their quest to oust the "Illegal Occupiers of Palestine" crap, accept the outcome of a failed war, politics of the time, and stop with the rockets and the exploding children.

In either case because this divide is driven by religion this issue will never be resolved.
 
funny how muslims are involved in every war that is being fought in the entire world........must be the jews fault.




great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
494742f95c53a850.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-09 AT 09:15AM (MST)[p]How much trouble did we have with ragheads before we created Israel?

On that subject who is our number one foreign aid dependant?

There will never be peace in that sandbox, I just wish we weren't involved so we could sit back and let nature take it's course.
 
Hamas brought this on themselves. Israel has done nothing but appease the rest of the world for a long time. However as Israeli civilians deaths rise because of rockets, suicide bombers and such it was just a matter of time until the leaders were forced to take action.

For years and years Israel has bent over backwards and now they finally had enough of the crap. I would say that if Mexico sent one rocket into San Diego that the US would take action right now. We would not wait for 1000's of them before we did something.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-09 AT 09:54AM (MST)[p]Interestingly enough, the USA is in every war too, and some we even started.

My point is that just because there are terrorists battling one another and in some cases innocent people, and they happen to be Muslim is not enough reason to say that all Muslims are bad people, or that we should war against them like we would a nation.

If we spread your logic over the globe, we would find Christians are involved in every war therefore are you also implying that all Christians are bad or that they cause wars, or that they are the problem around the world?

It's best not to cherry pick this issue . . . especially this issue . . . as it's religious and it seems that no matter where you look religious beliefs form the foundation for killing. . . It's also not wise to hate back to haters, in fact its not even christian to hate haters. If one is a hater how are they any different than any other hater?

I'm not capping on anyone, i'm just saying that religion, it seems, is the root of many wars in this world. . . I by no means take credit for that conclusion, it's been said a million times.

Still trying to figure out how this relates to sportsmans political talk. maybe we should have called it, "Political Talk Among Sportsmen."
 
"Hamas brought this on themselves. Israel has done nothing but appease the rest of the world for a long time. However as Israeli civilians deaths rise because of rockets, suicide bombers and such it was just a matter of time. . . "

What civilians of isreal? If youre an israli youre a memeber of the military. . . so you cant be a civilian. Also, isreal keeps palistine in shackles and everytime they get a foot hold in their own land Israel bombs them back to the stone ages.

They cut off their water, their food, they cant leave and cant travel without a passport and they cant even get one of those. Israel controls the media and the boarders, they destroy any hope for palistine, come on guys. . .

Hamas is an ugly terror organization, and needs to be dealt with but if you were trapped in a prison camp for 50 years wouldnt you fight too, especially against tresspassors on what was historically YOUR soil?
 
Good point, as the old saying goes if you ain't got nothing you ain't got nothing to lose, the Palistinians would take any leadership that would improve their chances at a better life. as it stands a chance to cross the border and clean toilets in Israel for peanuts is a dream come true, then the you watch you family get blown away because they were trying to hide in a place that maybe a suspected Hamas member was at one time and that really makes it better.

With every innocent Palistinian killed Israel gives the family survivors a reason to live, the best the middle east has to offer, revenge.

Unless we step in a broker a peace deal opening our deep pockets to buy it, then Israel is only making it worse with their actions today. believe me now or believe me later.
 
Anyone with an open enough mind to be interested in the other side of the story check this out, it may explain why the rest of the world isn't as biased as we are. just some facts and statistics our send Israel a blank check kill all the Palistinian crowd doesn't know or care about.

www.ifamericansknew.org
 
RE: Gaza, good grief huntindude

>What you're missing is after WWII
>the UN, mainly us and
>England decided to throw the
>Palistinians out of their homeland
>and give it to the
>Jews. as you can imagine
>this didn't sit too too
>well with the Palistinians or
>the arab community.


Well at least i can say your partially right this time. Huntingdude. But you live out some huge facts like rest of liberal media. Actually in 1947 jews started to sneak into Israel territory and they in fact started a small guerilla conflict with palestines, ( the dude with patch over his eye was one of big guerilla fighters in this, name? Mocha Dien.. I know spelling all screwed up) Anyways they carve out Israel with suppour of yes, USA and Brits.. But how do you steal what has always been yours?????
Jews have been in that area since 1000 b.c. Could give u a huge lengthy time line, but ill just hit the high pts...
10,000 BC: first permanent settlements in Israel
1300 BC: Moses leads the Jews out of Egypt Into land of cannan, which is Israel.
circa 1200 BC: Philistines arrive by ship and give the name "Palestine" to the area; Jews start to arrive in Land of Israel
(Notice 1200 BC folks)
63 BC: Roman legions, under General Pompey, conquer Jerusalem
AD 66-70: Jewish revolt, war with Romans, destruction of Jerusalem and Second Temple
AD 132-135. Bar Kochba rebellion. Jews crushed by Romans, sold into slavery
AD 638: Omar defeats the Byzantine army at the Yarmuk River (in Syria); Muslims rule Palestine
AD 1099: Crusaders take Jerusalem after a five-week siege; more than 20,000 Jews and Muslims inside are murdered or sold into slavery
AD 1400: Israel under Mameluke rule from Egypt; Jews begin emigrating to Palestine to escape persecution in Europe
1923: British split off 70% of Palestine and hand it over to Emir Abdullah as "Jordan"
November 29, 1947: United Nations votes for the partition of the remainder of Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states, with Jerusalem a neutral international city. The United States embargoes arms sales to the Jews while the British sell arms freely to the Arabs; with support from Stalin, the Jews are ultimately able to purchase $12 million of rifles from Czechoslovakia.
Wanted to point out, JEWS have been and were in palestine in 1800 B.C. Was not till 600 A.D. Muslims took rule of parts of the region.
They both had claim to the area, more so the jews they were there first. 70% of palestine was carved off and given to Jordon later on, more then satisfying there share.
Notice USA had arms embargo on jews, while Brits sold arms freely to Arabs.. So dont give this crap about poor Palestinians had no help and big bad Israels kicked there poor butts. They allready had huge concessions when Jordan was carved out.
Jews have more claim to the land then the arabs, being there at least 2000 years earlier.
Israel Jews, gave gaza strip back to the Palestinians. How were they thanked? There launching fricking rockets at the jews. The hamas started it, they deserve every blow they get. The Hamas goes out of there way to hit civilians and kids. The Jews got out of there way to miss civilians and Kids..
Hamas started to shoot rockets first.. so the jews are just to sit there and be attacked.. But of course all the liberal pukes out there and papers immediately jump on band wagon for the poor innocent little Palestinians. They have done nothing wrong and big bad Israel is beating them up.. If the Palestinians are so stupid that they don't realize if they launch a rocket, Israel will attack them,,, then they need to be taken out of lifes gene pool in my opinion. Don't launch rockets and Israel wont attack......duhhhhhhh thats complicated to understand...
 
Interestingly enough, the USA is in every war too, and some we even started.""" quoted from TFinalshot
ya good thing or you would be speaking Japanese or German you fricking idiot T.....shot... Name me one war USA has started, besides Mexican War in 1840's.. Name one since 1900 that has not been justified... ( oh god i know ur going to bring up the current Iraq war, let me warn you, i can show where they found thousands of tons of yellow cake.. they use that in nukes just so you know.. and we had an attack on a couple of towers also... just reminding you....

I guess we could have stayed out of ww2 and there would'nt have been any jews left to help populate Israel and solved things that way... oh oh oh, but way, Palestinians say that the holocaust never happened either and have sworn to wipe out Israel.. dang it, I always forget those silly little details...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-09 AT 02:41PM (MST)[p] There land????????? I suppouse you can think that if u don't want to do a little research...

Read your history and you will see Jews have more claim to palestine then the arabs do.

Cut off water and bomb them to stone age? Hell ya, its how u win wars!!!
 
Its not about the stats of the killings. It is about who strikes first. Isreal has been attacked repeatedaly with little or no response from there military. Now after thousands of rockets being sent into Isreal - killing, injuring women, children, anybody close by.

Hamas is a terrorist group. They want to KILL everyone that is not muslim - including atheist like you Hdude. They hate the Jews because of religion. They want to kill them all becasue of religion. What gives them more rights than people that what peace and prosperity for there people. I have yet to even faitly grasp the logic behind that one.
 
I'm not an expert in this area of the world, but I am qualified to comment on some of the more that obvious issues. Please help me understand how it is that a religion has rights to property over indigenous people from that land?

That's like saying that the christians have the right to Indian Reservations here in the states. . . Native Americans, like the people of palestine are native to the territory, said another way, they are indigenous to that place since time in memorial. Jewdisom is a religion not a country or a nation.

Again, I point to the native, or indigenous people of the Americas. If given a similar situation, the natives today will fight to protect their homeland. In the past, they were forced from their homes and in some cases they left "willingly" but unknowingly relized the consiquenses in order to keep piece.

Today you wont find Natives willing to leave and if they were provoked or worse isolated and stripped of any rights, all sources of making a living, and they did not have a way to even grow their own food, they would fight like hell, as would anyone in that situation.

Israel is making a normal life in Palestine un attainable hoping that the Palestinians will leave. . . Hamas is guilty too. However, if I were pushed into a corner and I were living in my home land, I would fight like hell with my slingshot too. . . Hamas is a terror organization, do doubt. But desperate people do desperate things. . .

None of this makes terror okay, I dont dislike Jewish people, and its not okay to terrorize and kill people, but it is true that Israel is in the drivers seat and it is true that they have kept palestine in the dark ages in hopes that the native people of that territory will die or leave. today they are helping the former to become reality. Neither party is in the "right" but it is the home land of the people who now occupy gaza. . .

in the end, the existence of Palestinian citizens in a Jewish and state reveals the inherent contradiction: you cannot have a Jewish supremacy and claim that you are democratic because you do not propose equal and universal citizenship.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-09
>AT 01:01?AM (MST)
>
>Dude, D-13, and Nemont those are
>all excellent points! Hamas is
>the afterbirth of Arafat and
>gains it's largest draw on
>anti-semetic propaganda. However Hamas is
>only a fraction of the
>Palistinian peoples, the other would
>be those that belong to
>Fatah.
>
>The Israelis made concessions and removed
>settlements in the Gaza much
>to the vehement protest by
>the Israeli citizens in those
>settlements. They were accused of
>destroying or burning buildings behind
>them, rather than turning them
>over vacant for the Palestinians.
>
>
>When Hamas had gained political power
>it came under great speculation
>if they could properly take
>care of the citizens. Under
>Hamas rule they have squandered
>millions on missles instead of
>social services.
>
>The U.N. was supposed to go
>in a decade ago and
>remove Hamas before they gained
>political power. Oddly enough our
>Marines evacuated a lot of
>those Ex-Arafat top guys that
>control Hamas today when the
>Israelis had Arafat boxed in.
>
>
>If there were a group of
>Mexicans running around Tijuana
>firing rockets into San Diego
>because it used it belong
>to Mexico we would in
>turn respond to our defense.
>The big question is Israel's
>heavy handed response with the
>acceptance of heavy Collateral Damage
>while the enemy is runnign
>around and deliberately launching from
>heavily populated civilian sites througout
>the area.
>
>They could dispatch ground strike teams,
>but their casualty figures would
>increase dramatically. So Israel plays
>right into the hands of
>Hamas placing the local citizenry
>as unwilling fodder for the
>cause.
>
>Israel's goal is to place such
>a high retaliatory price that
>it will end the rocket
>and suicide attacks. At face
>value it makes sense, other
>than it becomes a rallying
>cry for Palestinians to align
>theirselves with Hamas.
>
>This is extremely localized but these
>Hamas guys will just go
>underground and I think the
>Israeli's are going to wait
>them out this time.
>
>We need to stay away and
>let them work it out.
>Hopefully Obama will denounce both
>sides in hopes of a
>diplomatic solution. My heart goes
>out to the innocent victims
>on both sides of this
>never ending conflict.
>
>Here is the compromise: The Israeli's
>could committ mass suicide, that
>would make Hamas happy. Or
>all the Hamas supporters could
>simply live peacefully, abandoned their
>quest to oust the "Illegal
>Occupiers of Palestine" crap, accept
>the outcome of a failed
>war, politics of the time,
>and stop with the rockets
>and the exploding children.
>
>In either case because this divide
>is driven by religion this
>issue will never be resolved.
>
>
>


Well said Forthewall
 
>I'm not an expert in this
>area of the world, but
>I am qualified to comment
>on some of the more
>that obvious issues. Please
>help me understand how it
>is that a religion has
>rights to property over indigenous
>people from that land?
>
>That's like saying that the christians
>have the right to Indian
>Reservations here in the states.
>. . Native Americans,
>like the people of palestine
>are native to the territory,
>said another way, they are
>indigenous to that place since
>time in memorial. Jewdisom
>is a religion not a
>country or a nation.
>
>Again, I point to the native,
>or indigenous people of the
>Americas. If given a
>similar situation, the natives today
>will fight to protect their
>homeland. In the past,
>they were forced from their
>homes and in some cases
>they left "willingly" but unknowingly
>relized the consiquenses in order
>to keep piece.
>
>Today you wont find Natives willing
>to leave and if they
>were provoked or worse isolated
>and stripped of any rights,
>all sources of making a
>living, and they did not
>have a way to even
>grow their own food, they
>would fight like hell, as
>would anyone in that situation.
>
>
>Israel is making a normal life
>in Palestine un attainable hoping
>that the Palestinians will leave.
>. . Hamas is
>guilty too. However, if
>I were pushed into a
>corner and I were living
>in my home land, I
>would fight like hell with
>my slingshot too. . .
> Hamas is a terror
>organization, do doubt. But
>desperate people do desperate things.
>. .
>
>None of this makes terror okay,
>I dont dislike Jewish people,
>and its not okay to
>terrorize and kill people, but
>it is true that Israel
>is in the drivers seat
>and it is true that
>they have kept palestine in
>the dark ages in hopes
>that the native people of
>that territory will die or
>leave. today they are
>helping the former to become
>reality. Neither party is
>in the "right" but it
>is the home land of
>the people who now occupy
>gaza. . .
>
>in the end, the existence of
>Palestinian citizens in a Jewish
>and state reveals the inherent
>contradiction: you cannot have a
>Jewish supremacy and claim that
>you are democratic because you
>do not propose equal and
>universal citizenship.


Indigenous People........LMFAO..........OK Tmoney so you claim that Palastinians are the indigenous folks.........yea site that proof..........I would bet that the folks you call Indigenous kicked the living sh$% out of another Indigenous people and took their land............Indigenous People what a friggin CROCK!

Just like your American Indian beliefs are WRONG! So tell me T which Tribe was the ORIGINAL Indigenous people to what we call the USA? My point being, no man has ever settled a tract of land with out beating someone off it or getting their buts kicked off it. Whether it is with a rock or a bomb.
 
TF, I expect silly comments from dude, but I for some reason thought you had some sense about you. Blaming the plight/conditions in Palistine on Israel is akin to blaming the plight/conditions in the ghettos of Detroit on Canada. Look at that region, the ONLY place that isn't a crap hole is Israel outside of the palaces for the royal families. The arab nations have more money than they can spend, yet they do little/NOTHING to help their fellow arabs in palestine out except to train them how to launch rockets and blow themselves up. Jordan has a BIGGGER chunk of land than Israel, yet they and Egypt prohibt Palestinians to come into their countries. Is that why they show such outrage when Israel defends herself? Israel has been trying appeasement for the last couple of years, the result, MORE rockets and suicide bombers than before. To think Israel wants/desires to take on the whole Muslim world is beyond inane. They have conceded even in victory more than any other country on the planet.

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
I wonder how the indians felt when the mexicans tried to take their land. Do you think that the indians stood their and took it? Dont think so.
 
So the native people in Palistine and America didn't have a deed therefore their land was up for grabs? that's the kind of arrogance that makes us famous.


Israel illegally buliding on Palistinian land doesn't provoke some of this? the Palistinians are already pushed onto a small part of THEIR former land and they're supposed to grin at the trespassers building in whats left of their dump of a country?

You reason since other arabs wont help the Palistinians that somehow makes this Ok? if other arabs don't care why should we? could it be they like having someone fight with the jews and just like the people in Darfur they have nothing of value so why worry about their welfare? the only thing Palisinians have to their name is hatred and revenge and you think that's all their fault.

Why don't we give Palistine the same 6+ million dollars a day and equal military aid to we give Israel and make this sporting? you laugh at the Palistinians with rocks and bottle rockets, maybe if they had the money and abilty to put up a good fight you'd respect them as human beings.

I don't like the muslims or the jews much, but I can see an injustice and call it what it is. once again , they're BOTH at fault and we're at fault for facilitating this mess. the rest of the world sees it as it is, thankfully.
 
like I said, i dont claim to be an expert in all of this so my conclusions might be off a bit, but in reading a good deal from a number of sources on all sides of the issue I believe i have a view that is at least objective. My dog in this fight is life, that's it. . .

From what I can tell most US news media report very little in the way of fair and balance on this story. I know I find a lot more information and what look to be additional facts when I do my own research and reading, a lot more than I could learn in a month of watching the corporate media. . .

Why are people with differing views trashed by those who believe they are right? Why is it that there is little chance to have a discussion on this site without getting trashed for having a different view?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-07-09 AT 06:32PM (MST)[p]Forgetting the political whys and all that stuff.......I find it amusing that every time Hamas starts losing they call for a "time out" so they can get organized.....And Isreal gives it to them! That's just funny/stupid.

Edit: And even stupider is when Hamas sets up in a school yard and fires rockets, the world condems Isreal for bombing a school yard when they strike back. LMAO!

There's no helping this part of the world.
 
Tmoney.... you don't get trashed for having a different view, you get trashed for having the wrong view.

When you have the exterminator at your house to kill rats do they spare the little pink ones ???



great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
494742f95c53a850.jpg
 
Hamas didn't ask for a cease fire, Israel gave 3 hours so humanitarian aid could get to civilians. due to world pressure.

Other than for entertainment this debate is more useless than most of our useless debates. Israel and Palistine will be fighting long after we're all dead. we'll be Isreal's biatch as long as we have any money or power and the rest of the world will keep the Palistinians in the game. if it wasn't so serious the stupidity of it all it would be hilarious.
 
The damn conservative media. The likes of CBS, NBC and other conservative media outlets are driving me crazy. Honestly, you cant believe them and their rightwing views. Hey, even CNN is more conservative than ABC. We need to pool our pocket change together and start a leftwing liberal television network.
 
That's an ignorant statement, and that's the attitude that created this mess.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-09 AT 09:59AM (MST)[p]30inchbuck? thanks for bringing this up, cause if i would have, it would have been noting but jokes...

Bwnco? thanks for the history lesson, thats what i was gonna post till i saw yours, too bad Hdude doesn't listen but he's democrat?.
-----------------

Fight fair- from the horse's mouth....."
By Joseph Shulam

As I write this letter rockets are falling on both the Northern and Southern boarders of Israel. The Peaceful city of Nahariah close to the Lebanese boarder is being bombarded by rockets from Lebanon. One rocket fell on an Sanatorium for old people. The whole Sanatorium had to be evacuated because the building was penetrated by the rocket through the roof all the way down to the basement.

On the one hand the Arabs are crying that they want a cease-fire and are crying to the whole world about a humanitarian disaster in Gaza. On the other hand Israel has given them more than 400 truck loads of food and medicine in the last two days. On the third hand they continue to send rockets against our cities and terrorize our civilian population. On the forth hand Israel calls and warns the civilian population in Gaza before they bomb and tells them to evacuate and leave the area. On the fifth hand Hamas bring women and children and forces them to be in buildings from which they shoot rockets against Israel so that they can show pictures of wounded and killed civilians, women and children, and all this is well orchestrated as if choreographed by the devil himself.

Israel is doing what no army has ever done ? it is going the second and the third mile not to harm civilian population. Now Israel is taking the wounded from Gaza to be treated in Israeli hospitals by Israeli doctors on Israeli tax payers? money. In fact Israeli doctors have been for several years doing heart surgery and other very complicated surgeries on Arab/Palestinian children from Gaza, from Iraq, from other Arab countries and saving lives for free. Has such a thing ever been heard in the whole world and in the history of warfare? Has it ever been heard that nations have returned good for evil to save the children of their enemies and that for free.

I don't think that Israel is a perfect. I realize that in war there are many evils on every side. I don't have any desire or intention to cause people to suffer in Gaza or in the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. I really do believe that in every war both sides are forever to blame. I feel bad to see hate and war winning and love and grace suffering. However the truth has to be spoken and seen and expressed and right now the world media and their agenda does not see it profitable to give a balanced and truthful account of what is really going on here in the Middle East.

Pray for World Peace not only for the Peace of Jerusalem!
 
So who's side is God on? the innocent lives lost is just the price to pay for what? "piece" in the middle east. Where does God come out in all this killing? Who's side is he on, would he support killing all these people?
 
>So who's side is God on?
> the innocent lives lost
>is just the price to
>pay for what? "piece"
>in the middle east.
>Where does God come out
>in all this killing?
>Who's side is he on,
>would he support killing all
>these people?


I don't dare speak for God, if your asking me?

I just know that if my neighbor threw rocks at my house on a dily basis, and the police did nothing to stop it, then one day i would get tired of it and take matters into my own hands.

the real Q is who can help stop this problem...

49663399766c74a2.jpg


do you see the blue speck in the picture, thats israel in the middle of Saudi arabia, so why don't the arabs give the palistinians a ground of thier own and lift a hand to their own kind?

as some one els stated that, that land has been israels before there was a palistinian people!

I know what God has been saying for centuries now in his word, don't touch his land, Israel!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-09 AT 10:43AM (MST) by TFinalshot (moderator)[p]sorry manny you cant do that. . .
 
Manny15 the comparing of the two countrys size has little to do with it, for one thing, one may be a desert, one may be a fertile area, those countrys have been densely populated for thousands of years. I don't think you have any real idea of the situation
 
Tmoney good question, but you will have to pray to God for your answer.
As far as imperfect humanbeings go..........well you already know that answer to that one.
 
>Manny15 the comparing of the
>two countrys size has little
>to do with it, for
>one thing, one may be
>a desert, one may be
>a fertile area, those countrys
>have been densely populated for
>thousands of years. I don't
>think you have any real
>idea of the situation


I will say that its just one aspect of the problem, and i do have an idea about the situation, don't kid yourself, I know for a fact, that Israel was not always fertile ground, I beleive it was Ernest hemmingway who made the comment while driving thru that country prior to israel taking control, "this is one God forsakin waste land".

it didn't become fertile till Israel took control of it again in 1948......
 
Give me as much money as we've given Israel and I could grow oranges in Alaska.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-09 AT 12:09PM (MST)[p]>Give me as much money as
>we've given Israel and I
>could grow oranges in Alaska.
>


And on the other hand how many $ have we given the Palestinians, what does that have to do with anything...

You are so one sided on just about every issue I have a hard time respecting anything you have to say...

I used to have a in-law that was of Palestinian decent his family would smuggle money and guns to them over there in the mid-east...

Used to have an in-law, past tense, he's dead now 2 days before 9-11 he shot and killed my niece and there two daughters, execution style.....

So I have little respect for their plight as long as hamas in controlling their destiny
 
HD,

Look at how much we have given and continue to give to Egypt and they have not done anything close to what Israel has done in transforming the desert.

Nemont
 
Oh Manny!! love the map, nice comparison... to bad u couldnt have placed in there the size of gaza strip or Golan Heights.... be a spec!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-09 AT 02:26PM (MST)[p]huntingdude, which country has more money, including money given to them from other countries, Israel or Saudi Arabia? Now, after you answer that tell me which country is an agriculture nightmare and which one is very productive in agriculture? Money has NOTHING to do with it!

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.
 
what an amazing bunch, this isn't rocket science, those places in the middle east that have big old cities and lots of people, well thats where the productive land is, the settlers in that land found that out thousands of years before Hemingway, and I think we give far more money to Israel per capita than any other country, the next thing you will be saying that Jews have larger brains that the rest of us, isn't that in the right wing archives?
 
I know I know everyones a know it all

The million dollar question is who is using Hamas to pull Israel into this conflict which the terror organization knows it can't win? Who is standing to gain from such a blood bath that can easily spill northward toward Lebanon and Syria and develop into a regional war? Only Iran fits the bill! The main backer, supplier and trainer of Hamas forces in Gaza and Hezbollah forces in Lebanon, Iran would like to lure Israel into a costly regional conflict involving Hamas, Hezbollah and possibly Syria in order to escape the inevitable Israeli air strikes on their nuclear facilities.
 
Everyone wants somehow to make this issue complicated. It's not. The whole thing boils down to which god you choose to believe in. The god of Abraham or Allah. I don't know but I suspect they are one and the same. Regardless, the Jews will never live in peace. They have no homeland. Every acre they claim is occupied land. The Muslims have history on their side. What really make?s me and others crazy is that Christians some how think they have the right to call the ball on this one. Ain?t going to happen my friends. This battle only ends when the Lord says enough is enough.

RUS
 
Nemont we haven't given Egypt a fraction of what we've given Israel, and agricultural production isn't a real fair way to judge a peoples worth since it has more to do with the land than the people, I don't know how we got on this anyway.

There is only 3 things in life you can count on, death, taxes, and fighting between arabs and jews. I say cut off Israel's welfare and let them sort it out on their own, I have no more love for them than the ragheads.
 
Not that it matters, but it was the spanish who conquered the indians, not the mexicans. There's a difference.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-09 AT 08:52AM (MST)[p]It's my opinion that historical ties to land have little meaning these days such as the middle east, indians being here first, etc. It doesn't matter who was here/there first. It's stupid to continually fight the battles of our ancestors and also pay for their mistakes. It's too bad that ignorance prevents them from moving forward.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-09
>AT 08:52?AM (MST)
>
>It's my opinion that historical ties
>to land have little meaning
>these days such as the
>middle east, indians being here
>first, etc. It doesn't
>matter who was here/there first.
> It's stupid to continually
>fight the battles of our
>ancestors and also pay for
>their mistakes. It's too
>bad that ignorance prevents them
>from moving forward.
>

AMEN!
 
You might be right about that but how do the Palistinians survive on the crappy rock we left for them to exist on? and shouldn't Israel be forced to not to build on what little of their country they have left?

I doubt this conflict will ever be resolved, but until we Americans who are responsible for it understand and accept there are two sides to the story we can't even help. without us Israel would not have ever existed, without us Israel would fall, the French and British have let most of thier foreign empire and dependants go and maybe we should as well. if you say who owned the land before is immaterial then maybe we shouldn't interfere with who may own it in the future.
 
>You might be right about that
>but how do the Palistinians
>survive on the crappy rock
>we left for them to
>exist on? and shouldn't Israel
>be forced to not to
>build on what little of
>their country they have left?
>
>
> I doubt this conflict will
>ever be resolved, but until
>we Americans who are responsible
>for it understand and accept
>there are two sides to
>the story we can't even
>help. without us Israel would
>not have ever existed, without
>us Israel would fall, the
>French and British have let
>most of thier foreign empire
>and dependants go and maybe
>we should as well. if
>you say who owned the
>land before is immaterial then
>maybe we shouldn't interfere with
>who may own it in
>the future.

its a shame you never take the time to study the bible, cause it would answer most of your Q's, everything that has happed over there was predicted in the BIBLE and the outcome is in there also

wehn I was 13 I started reading the new testament, in my life time i've seen this stuff come to life on my local news channel, The Bible has proven itself to me time and time again...
 
I don't have an answer. We do have a bad habit of getting involved in things we shouldn't which makes people hate us even more. I think, for us anyway, as little involvement as possible would be best.
 
Agreed, but with our money ( borrowed money ) and military power behind Israel unconditionally they have little insentive to concede anything or even upholding past agreements. the Palistinians have nothing to lose, so they live on hate and a few bucks from us and other nations. we have an obligation as the ones who created this situation to force Israel to the table, or cut our ties with them.

Cutting all ties to them would be cheaper and eaiser so I vote for that.
 
RE: Gaza, good grief huntindude

Using your logic we better hurry up and give america back to the Native Americans before its too late.
Mike
 
I'm with bigandtasty
I'd rather have 50 Jews as neighbors than one liberal.
Israel is doing what needs to be done i hope they finish it unlike dude who thinks war is won by quitting first.
at this point in time there is not innocent palestinians.
Israel has been to nice for to long.
let Jesus rain. revelations 3 8
i know thy works: behold, i have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
22 7
behold, i come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of prophecy of this book.
one day terroristdude's eyes will be opened whether its in time or not is yet to be seen. if not may god have pity on his soal
 
A Brave Lady indeed!


WATCH THIS, BEFORE IT'S TAKEN OFF THE WEB...

HAVE SOUND ON
(PLAYED IT ONCE WITH SOUND ON AND ONCE WITH SOUND OFF. IT'S SPOKEN IN 'ARABIC' BUT THE TEXT IS PRINTED UNDER THE SPEAKERS.)

It is extremely surprising that the Arab financed TV station in Dubai would allow this to air. Be sure and watch this, it is so powerful I have no doubt she now has very large price on her head. I also have no doubt it won't be on the net very long. She is one impressive woman.

Here is a powerful and amazing statement on Al Jazeera television. The woman is Wafa Sultan, an Arab-American psychologist from Los Angeles . I would suggest watching it ASAP because I don't know how long the link will be active. This film clip should be shown around the world repeatedly!



http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak
 
It's been available on the web for years now Manny....relax...no need to hurry.

great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
494742f95c53a850.jpg
 
Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint.
-- Mark Twain --
 
Actually, Israel has shown major restraint. They could rule that whole region fairly easily if they really wanted too. And possibly do us a big favor in the process........... We should fund and arm them on the down low. Clandestine.....What the limp wristers and America hateing libs don't know, they cant bawl about..........
 
Why fund and arm them under the table? it's in our budget, or debt should I say.

Israel can't survive without us, therefore we're going to pay the price of their actions. they can't rule anything Russia and China don't approve of, and like the rest of the world they don't approve of much Israel does.

Be careful what you wish for, lots of tough guys have woke up on the floor. one last thought, has it even occured to you we're broke? what if China doesn't have the money or wish to loan us the money to gift to Israel? that would be a dilly of a pickle huh?
 
Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face.

For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel.

==================
Ezekiel 38:1-7 gives 10 names as participants in the invasion of Israel that will follow the regathering of the Jews to their homeland. First mentioned, is the land of Magog. The most common identity for Magog is in Central Asia. The Jewish historian Josephus said, "Magog founded the Magogians, called Scythians by the Greeks. Scythians were a nomadic tribe who inhabited the ancient territory from Central Asia across the southern part of ancient Russia." Today this area is inhabited by the former Soviet Republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, and possibly northern parts of Afghanistan. All of these nations that make up the land of Magog have one thing in common - Islam. Militant Islam has been on the rise in these countries since the fall of the Soviet Union, when Islam no longer had to be practiced secretly. Radical Islamic groups such as the Islamic Renaissance Party, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan, and Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islam are working to reunite central Asian nations and ultimately the entire Muslim world. It is from this part of the world that a leader will arise to bring together a great coalition of nations to invade Israel.
 
>Why fund and arm them under
>the table? it's in our
>budget, or debt should I
>say.
>
> Israel can't survive without us,
>therefore we're going to pay
>the price of their actions.
>they can't rule anything Russia
>and China don't approve of,
>and like the rest of
>the world they don't approve
>of much Israel does.
>
> Be careful what you wish
>for, lots of tough guys
>have woke up on the
>floor. one last thought, has
>it even occured to you
>we're broke? what if China
>doesn't have the money or
>wish to loan us the
>money to gift to Israel?
>that would be a dilly
>of a pickle huh?


When has being broke stopped us? You think thats a new development dip$hit? Israel is technologically advanced and has the best military in that region by far.
the only reason they dont go apeshit over there is cuz we're holding their leash......How we are viewed by terror sponsering nations only matters to chicken guts like you who hate themselves and where you're from. How does it feel to hate yourself?
 
Good 'ol jake, I hoped...I mean thought maybe you overdosed when you vanished but here you are.

Hate myself? good one, I think you're an idiot and I'm glad those with your lack of mentality are out of power so what's to hate? it can only get better.

Israel is toast if they go too far, the world hates hem and we only have so much power and so much credit left. yes Israel could put on a good show for a while, but they can't compete with the ragheads when Russia and China start supplying them with the means to fight, and they would. grow up.
 
I can only stand the ##### that falls out of your mouth for so long. Your breath is really bad.........

Your a ##### who does'nt deserve the rights and freedoms you enjoy in this country........But you'll get them anyway and ##### and whine about it the whole time. Also you have no idea what mentality those in charge will have.........Last democratic regime did it's share of stomping out fires.

Israel seems to have the right idea. They can most certainly take care of themselves as is evident by the vast disparity in casualties they inflict and those they recieve. Good on 'em.

Stupid ##### heads like you hate the fact That The Good Ol' USofA is Still the big boy on the block. Still the only super power. Russia and China know it........They wont do a fukking thing but posture and get what they can. Watch.
 
>Jake the more you talk the
>dumber you seem, and you
>talk a lot.


Says the little twat with 5,000 plus posts.......who has still never contributed anything of note with all that gum-flapping. Did you realise this is a hunting messageboard?
 
Jake since it takes you two post for each response you should catch up to me in no time. what's the matter it takes a while to come up with ********* ? you're the man I tell you.

The short bus is coming don't forget your lunch, check back after school and tell us what you learned today.
 
Actually Manny its been on there for a long time. I dont think its gonna get pulled. I love that lady! First time ive ever seen an Arab, tell there own people to wake up and get rid of the racicals in there group...
 
> Actually Manny its been on
>there for a long time.
> I dont think its
>gonna get pulled. I
>love that lady! First
>time ive ever seen an
>Arab, tell there own people
>to wake up and get
>rid of the racicals in
>there group...


Yah and the cleric dude called her a heretic! She may be a humanist but not a heretic .
 
Huntin, why do you hate your country? You ranch dont you? Sell out and go to Argentina or Brazil, good ranch country there...
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-09 AT 10:05AM (MST)[p]I'll tell you what bothers me about this conflict, what if Israel use's this confusion of times to hit Iran, do you know how much fuel will be then!...
 
You guys are funny, I don't bend over and love Israel and that makes me hate my country? where in the constitution does Israel have the right to expect my money or support? Israel is a mess we created after WWII and my dad didn't agree at the time and never did agree with it , he was w WWII vet and he didn't hate his country and neither do I.

Did you even look at the posted website listing the facts on this issue? or would it make you anti American to even question any of our foriegn policy? You're right about one thing on this, Israel will have a strangle hold on us until the end, due to the power and money they have in this country and the unquestioning uninformed devotion of voters like you.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-13-09 AT 11:02AM (MST)[p]Read this last thing Dude"

Zechariah 12:2-3 I Behold I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

This is the prophecy which goes on to say "and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son" which seems to be speaking of the 2nd coming of the Messiah.

==============

you don't have to believe in a denomination to see that God's word (Bible) will come to pass, but you do have to be truthfull with yourself!....
 
The Panama revolution so we could build the Panama Canal. Are you satisfied or would you like me to add to the list.
Mike
 
And have you read or researched the full history of the area. YOu want to go back far enough dude, the jews were there before the arabs.
Huge hunk of palestine carved off, 70% to be exact for paestinians, yet you do not acknowledge that.
Jews have as much right or more to be where they are at. They have been sitting there minding there own business when the fricking hamas starts to send missles over into them. There suppouse to what dude, do nothing. Sit there and take it.
Can not get it threw your head, that Israel is surrounded by people whom have sworn, to destroy them. Israel has not sworn to destroy all the palestians..
So big whoop, they have killed more palestines etc.. according to your site. If they would mind there business Israel would not retaliate. So simple. So ya, Palestinians kill 1 Israel citizen, Israel will kill 4 Palestinians, you would think they would learn, wouldnt you.
 
Manny, that makes no sense whatsoever. no wonder you live by the bible, since it makes no sense you can make it say whatever you want.

Bunco, if you go back far enough my ancestors owned most of the northwest, why don't you get out? so what you're saying is might makes right, that is pretty much true but that doesn't mean the US should have ever gotten involved or should still be picking up the check with Israel. it was a mistake that just won't go away, I'm glad you like paying for it because I don't.
 

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