getting started!!??

txjp · Jan 27, 2011

This is a question for all you ram and goat guys out there. I want to get started in my quest for a ram and a goat. I can only afford one trip for each. I was wondering where you guys thought I need to concentrate my efforts. I am just starting so I do not know how the populations may change in the next 10 years or so. Most I talk to like MT for rams I am not real sure for goats. I am 32 and have never bought a point for any ram or goat. So I am as green as they come but I thought this would be a good place to start.

I want a mountain goat and a bighorn

Any thought you guys have would be appreciated

mesquitehunter · Jan 27, 2011

Well you may want to consider a Dall, it's by far the easiest hunt to obtain if you got some cash. If you are wanting to hunt sheep in the lower 48 it's pretty tough if not impossible to draw a tag. If you have a ton of $$$$$$$$$ you can bid on a auction tag.

Gun control is a good aim and a steady rest

Zeke · Jan 27, 2011

Well said, mesquitehunter.

If you have enough cash, apply, apply, apply is as many States as you can. This is expensive though and the money really adds up (almost as much as a Dall sheep hunt).

You might think about contacting a number of Dall sheep outfitters and see if they have a cancellation hunt list that you can sign up for.

A couple years ago I got a call from a top Stone sheep outfitter and was hunting within the week. I had a great hunt and saved some dough in the process.

If this works for your schedule it might be a cheaper way to go.

Zeke

Tagalong173 · Jan 27, 2011

If I had the money i would love to go hunt the beautiful dall or stone sheep.

greatwestern · Jan 27, 2011

in addition to the excellent advice in posts 1 and 2, i would also look at the raffles available in most bighorn states...odds are generally quite abyssmal, but you never know, eh! and it is a great way to contribute whatever you can afford to our collective sheep programs

anyway, thank you for your interest in getting involved with the wild sheep conservation effort

cheers and Good Luck!

txjp · Jan 28, 2011

Am I crazy to think i can go without a guide?? I have never hired a guide. I am kind of a diy man. It means much more to me.

I have taken elk, mule deer, whitetails among other things and I even found some bighorns is the moutains of ID and MT.

I don't mind waiting on the tags?

Has anyone done this?

MNHunter · Jan 28, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Jan-28-11 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]>Am I crazy to think i
>can go without a guide??
>I have never hired a
>guide. I am kind of
>a diy man. It means
>much more to me.
>
>I have taken elk, mule deer,
>whitetails among other things and
>I even found some bighorns
>is the moutains of ID
>and MT.
>
>I don't mind waiting on the
>tags?
>
>Has anyone done this?

Absolutely, many people do it each year. Some states/units are harder to hunt than others. The hard part about hunting sheep in the lower 48 is drawing the tag. I'm 31, been applying to most states that have sheep and have not drawn in the 8 years I've been playing the application game. In reality, the odds are I'll be lucky to draw 1 tag anywhere in my lifetime. With the amount I've spent over the last 8 years applying for tags, I could have hunted Dall sheep in Alaska. Play the raffles, apply in states you can afford, and save up for a Dall hunt or Mt Goat hunt and you'll be to hunt them someday. Of course outside of the lower 48 you will have to go guided unless you live or move there.

"Whatever you are, be a good one."
- Abraham Lincoln

littlebighorn · Jan 28, 2011

As far as being a sheep virgin, and going DIY, let me tell you my experience.
First getting a Rocky Tag is pretty much a OIL experience, so when I finally got my Wyoming Rocky tag I decided to hire a guide, even though I had decades of hunting experience in the Rocky Mountains(deer, elk, antelope, goats,...but no sheep).
I thought I could do it on my own for sure but I didn't want to mess up an OIL thing!
I was dumbfounded at how much equipment, and preparation went into getting me into the back country. It took 3 guys and a pack train to get us into good sheep country. Also, I pride myself at being able to spot game, and so for the entire hunt, I made it my goal to spot a sheep before my guide. It never happened! And after him spotting 30+ rams before I did, I pretty much gave up.
After that experience, I realized that hiring a guide was the best hunting money I have ever spent---at least in that situation.
I have been on 6 sheep hunts since then, and I now have much more confidence in finding sheep, etc. But my advice is to be careful about thinking you can do it by yourself...especially the first time. You will likely only get one chance at best!

Zeke · Jan 28, 2011

+1 LBH

I know we're both pretty hardcore DIY guys BUT.... a great guide make an excellent hunting companion too.

Dreaminbig understands how overwhelming it is to drop into the DD for the first time w/o a guide. He did very well, all things considered.

With that said, to my recollection, the only times I've used a guide was when required by law. When I've used a guide it has been a good experience. (guides were used on most of my sheep, they were required or I don't get to hunt)

Zeke

Dreaminbig · Jan 28, 2011

The biggest gamble I have every taken hunting was hunting my Desert tag this year with out a guide. It finally came down to the worst possible year finicialy to have drawn the tag. I hunt 75+ days a year for a living and it was still a huge undertaking. Ask LBH about the amount of gear I had on my truck when we met up with him in SLC. I looked like the Clampets headed for beverly hills!!!!. Luckily I own all the gear. If you finally draw that sheep tag ( and "if" is the big thing) spending the 6 or 7k on an outfitter would be the smartest decision you could make. Just don't rule out that option when you finally draw the tag.

The odds are terrible when it comes to drawing a tag but the chances of drawing one are 0 if you don't at least try.

txjp · Jan 28, 2011

thank you guys a ton

That is a lot of good info
I knew I could get good info here!!

littlebighorn · Jan 28, 2011

LOL Dreaminbig...
Your rig was pretty "getto" with all the junk hangin off it!
I was laughin pretty hard at you guys, til I saw your ram and then I thought-geezzz these Montana Hicks are goooood!

All kidding aside txjp...give it your best shot and we will help you all we can if it happens!

YukonDall · Jan 30, 2011

I WAS IN YOUR BOAT AT ONETIME. I JUST CUT THROUGH ALL THE WAITING, RED TAPE, AND MORE WAITING. SAVED A FEW BUCKS AND WHEN TO THE YUKON FOR DALLS.....THEY THREW IN A FREE CARIBOU & A BLACK BEAR & WOLF. I GOT A DECENT DALL, BUT POPPED A WORLD CLASS CARIBOU.......HAD A BLAST. GO NORTH YOUNG MAN, GO NORTH.....PLAY THE WAITING/POINTS GAME AFTER YOU KILL A DALL............YD.

DoeNob · Jan 31, 2011

Save your money and go to AK or BC for a mountain goat.

For bighorns if you are serious, you need to apply everywhere you have a chance of drawing.

llamapacker · Jan 31, 2011

You don't say where you live or how much expereince you have backpacking in the mountains. Shhep and goat hunts aren't anything like hunting suburban whitetails in Ilinois.

If you have been hunting high country elk and mule deer for a decade plus, then you should be able to do a goat / sheep hunt unguided. It will be incredibly hard, however. I drew a mountain goat tag in MT last year, and did this wilderness hunt solo. A very rewarding expereince. HOWEVER, I have Dall sheep hunted three times previously, and been on one guided goat hunt in AK. I learned a lot on those guided hunts. Add this to several decades hunting the high country for elk and deer, and I was ready to go it on my own when I finally drew a tag that allowed me to hunt without a guide. Do not underestimate the challenge.

In reality, it will be many years before you are likely to draw a tag, and you can start building your experience level on less demanding deer elk hunts. Don't overlook the goat hunt, as the odds are generally much better than sheep tags.

Bill Phifer

Zeke · Jan 31, 2011

Bill, a big +1

I loved your story about your solo hunt BTW.

The thought about where he hails from didn't even cross my mind.
Another bit of proof that there are a bunch of people smarter than me.

Zeke

txjp · Feb 1, 2011

bill
Thank you for the advise

I am from Texas and have been mule deer hunting for 10 years or so and just started elk hunting the last few. I hunt the moutains of MT and ID I do pack hunt a little. I am not the most experienced man in the woods but I don't think I am to green. I do plan on building experience the next ten or so it will take me to get a tag.

I have killed some animals over the years and I have never hired a guide. I like the pleaser of the DIY hunt but I don't want to be stupid about the whole thing.

please keep the info coming the more thoughts and opinions the better.

dwalton · Feb 1, 2011

Lots of good advice posted here. In my limited experience of hunting sheep & goats; I will add my 2 cents.

If you are just getting started you need to realize that you are 15 to 20 years behind in the point systems. The odds are REALLY stacked against someone drawing a sheep tag. You could apply your entire lifetime, and not draw a permit. The prospect of a mtn. goat tag is really not much better.

Don't buy into the myth that Idaho offers good drawing odds. It is VERY expensive to apply, and the odds are about the same as Wyoming's random draw.

A person has to buy hunting licenses and pay large sums to play the point game in the Western states.

DYI hunts for sheep: There's a reason why sheep guides are worth it. When you draw a tag, you've reached the big time. The downside is there are NO second chances. Unlike deer, you won't get another chance next year. A good guide is worth whatever you pay!

If it were me, I'd save my money and go Dall hunting. Then I'd save and go on a mtn. goat hunt.

Best of luck to you!

Zeke · Feb 1, 2011

hey txjp,

I thought of another reason to use a good outfitter.
Most sheep country is only accessed after a long, long trip into the backcountry.

HORSES! (and the wranglers who take care of them)

It's pretty hard to take your own horses into the hinterlands of another State and almost impossible if you'll be hunting in another country.

I don't own horses but I sure enjoy riding someone elses on a sheep hunt.

I've backpacked a few times also and I have another foot hunt scheduled. (I will miss the horses this time)

You've received lots of good advice. What you do with it will depend on your desire to hunt sheep.

Best, Zeke

littlebighorn · Feb 4, 2011

So here is a little hope for someone in your shoes txjp.
I was watching the a hunting show this week and they showed a guy who drew a NR bighorn tag for Montana---in the Breaks, which is probably the best Bighorn permit anywhere right now.
It turns out he also drew a Colorado Bighorn and a Nevada Desert Bighorn in the same year! Three Bighorn permits in ONE STINKIN' YEAR!

Lady Luck is a fickle hussy! Who knows when she will choose you!

Tagalong173 · Feb 5, 2011

Hey LBH you gotta introduce me to this guy, maybe some of his luck will rub off on me. Haha

Heat · Feb 5, 2011

>
>Lady Luck is a fickle hussy!
>Who knows when she will
>choose you!

This is a very true statement! I ended up drawing two excellent tags last year including a rifle pronghorn tag and a desert bighorn sheep tag in Arizona as a resident. The odds of that happening were astronomical.

I never contemplated hiring a guide for either hunt. That is just not my style if I could help it. Sometimes you don't have much choice.

You CAN draw if you are persistent and have a bit of luck. I only had 8 points to draw my first choice with tag #1 for the sheep so, If I can get lucky anybody can! Oh ya, only had 8 points for the goat too.

here are some threads with some results of my very fortunate opportunities:

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID33/1174.html

http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID33/1313.html

Nick