Gitmo Nightmare

202typical

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In their visceral, myopic hatred of President Bush, liberals will see the ruling as a blow to the president and not the broad, foolish, and dangerous judicial power grab it is.

The Gitmo Nightmare
What the Supreme Court has wrought.
by Matthew Continetti

It's hard to summarize a decision as long and complicated as the Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling last week in Boumediene v. Bush. But we can try. Unprecedented. Reckless. Harmful. Breathtakingly condescending.

The Court, in an opinion written by Justice Anthony Kennedy, ruled that non-citizens captured abroad and held in a military installation overseas--the remaining 270 or so inmates at the terrorist prison in Guant?namo Bay, Cuba--have the same constitutional right as U.S. citizens to challenge their detention in court. Furthermore, the current procedures by which a detainee's status is reviewed--procedures fashioned in good faith and at the Court's behest by a bipartisan congressional majority in consultation with the commander in chief during a time of war--are unconstitutional.

The upshot is the prisoners at Camp Delta can now file habeas corpus petitions in U.S. district courts seeking reprieve. Hence lawyers, judges, and leftwing interest groups will have real influence over the conduct of the war on terror. Call it the Gitmo nightmare.

As it happens, some of the most effective arguments against Boumediene come from the decision itself. For example, Justice Kennedy wrote that in cases involving terrorist detention, "proper deference must be accorded to the political branches." Then he overrode them.

Kennedy further noted that "unlike the President and some designated Members of Congress, neither the Members of this Court nor most federal judges begin the day with briefings that may describe new and serious threats to our Nation and its people." They had better start, because the courts are about to be flooded with petitions to release terrorists sworn to America's destruction.

He also wrote that now the "political branches can engage in a genuine debate about how best to preserve constitutional values while protecting the Nation from terrorism." But that is precisely what Congress and the president were doing when they passed legislation laying out a process for detainee review, one that in fact addressed concerns previously raised by the Court. The Court now says this process is inadequate. What would be adequate? Kennedy's answer: I'll get back to you on that.

In his opinion, Kennedy conceded that "before today the Court has never held that non-citizens detained by our Government in territory over which another country maintains de jure sovereignty have any rights under our Constitution." Inventing rights seems to be what some of today's Supreme Court justices do best. In 1950 the Court ruled in Johnson v. Eisentrager that foreign nationals held in a military prison on foreign soil (in that case, Germany) had no habeas rights. But, without overruling Eisentrager, Kennedy said the Guant?namo detainees are different from the German prisoners 58 years ago.

Why? Kennedy wrote that Eisentrager had a unique set of "practical considerations," and the United States did not have "de facto" sovereignty over Germany as it does over Guant?namo Bay. That territory, "while technically not part of the United States, is under the complete and total control of our Government." But these slippery distinctions only raise more questions. Doesn't the United States government exercise "complete and total control" over its military and intelligence facilities worldwide? If so, what's to stop foreign combatants held in those locations from asserting their habeas rights?

And what precise form will these habeas hearings take? What standards of judgment are the courts to apply? Will plaintiffs' attorneys be allowed to go venue shopping and file their petitions in the most liberal courts in the nation? Will they conduct discovery? Will they recall soldiers and intelligence agents from the field to testify? What happens when the available evidence does not satisfy judges who are used to adjudicating under the exclusionary rule? Will the cases be thrown out? Will the detainees be freed, able to return to the battlefield? That, after all, is what some 30 released detainees seem already to have done.

The Supreme Court does not worry about such things. Instead it piously reminded the people that "the laws and Constitution are designed to survive, and remain in force, in extraordinary times." No kidding. Has anyone ever argued otherwise?

Kennedy's sanctimony points to the ultimate tragedy of the Boumediene mess. In their visceral, myopic hatred of President Bush, liberals will see the ruling as a blow to the president and not the broad, foolish, and dangerous judicial power grab it is. The New York Times's editorialists wrote that "compliant Republicans and frightened Democrats" allowed Bush to deny foreign enemy combatants during wartime "the protections of justice, democracy and plain human decency."

Give us a break. One day soon Bush will be gone. But thanks to the Court, we'll still all be living the Gitmo nightmare.






"Thanks climate PhD 202" - TFinalshot Feb-05-08, 02:16 PM (MST)
 
A load of crap, it's not just dems in this .

What about Maj. Gen. Tugaba's investigation? he says this administration commited war crimes at Gitmo, question is will they be held accountable. I suppose he's a liberal America hater Maj. Gen.? or since his name is funny he can't be trusted?

The supreme court has spoken , let it go and hope charges aren't brought against your hero's in the whitehouse.
 
Actually, these bed-wetting panty-waists have made it easier on the troops. Take no prisoners. When in doubt, let their air out.
 
202,

Do you understand exactly what the court ruled? Mr. Continetti doesn't understand the ruling either. Go read the actual ruling not just quotes from the ruling. It gives detainees the right to petition for a hearing of Habeas Corpus not the right of Habeas Corpus.

It has changed nothing except to get some cases moving along so that the detainees fate may be determined. Do you actually believe that the entire U.S. judicial system is made up of liberal, American hating judges and attorneys?



Read the Conclusion of Chief Justice Robert dissent, "So who has won? Not the detainees. The Court's analysis leaves them with only the prospect of further litigation to determine the content of their new habeas right, followed by further litigation to resolve their particular cases, followed by further litigation before the D. C. Circuit?where they could have started had they invoked the DTA procedure."

While I agree that it is a complicated issue it does not give anything more then what was codified in the DTA and it actually means that each of these cases will drag on far longer then would have had the DTA been upheld.

Nemont
 
So in future wars you think our enemy is better off and justified " letting the air out " of our troops? rather than take prisoners? very bright thinking.
 
The suspects or the terrorist? wake up and you'll see there is a difference, that's what makes us better than them, or should.

If in 7 years they can't pin a crime on them what do we do? saw their heads off? get a clue.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-08 AT 11:16PM (MST)[p]"In case you have not noticed, they cut their prisoners heads off."

But the knife was clean, and that garners brownie points.

"So in future wars you think our enemy is better off and justified "letting the air out" of our troops? rather than take prisoners? very bright thinking.

411 for you there, Brainstorm... we stopped fighting "civilized" enemies with the fall of the Wermacht. Our enemies now think dying for Allah is the #####. "Letting the air out of our troops" is emphatically encouraged, and sawing off a head makes Hadji a bad mo-fo in Paradise. The only people we've fought in the last half century or more that've played by the rules is us. Stupid policy. It killed us in Korea, Vietnam, and all 3 Gulf Wars. America is always putting up stumbling blocks, and yes, its the feel-goodniks and liberals that impose them.

IMHO, what this action does is lay the foundation for precedents inre our future dealings with enemy combatants, and/or enemies of the State.

In the future, when our troops hands are cuffed even more than they are already because they have to issue some sort of a "Miranda" to our enemies before taking them into custody, it will be much easier to "shoot, shovel and shutup."
 
Nemont as far as I am concerned these guys have no rights. These terrorist are getting something even our own servicemen do not get.
What is wrong with a military tribunal and a hanging? Why give these scum these rights. This will come back to haunt us mark my words.



"Thanks climate PhD 202" - TFinalshot Feb-05-08, 02:16 PM (MST)
 
You guys really need to learn the difference between a suspect and a convict. until you do you're only making fools of yourselves.

The notion that suspects have no rights as long as they're off US soil is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. you make it easy to understand why the world hates America and sides against us more all the time . I can't understand how anyone is dumb enough to think that's how we defeat an enemy spread over the entire planet. brilliant.
 
202,

Have you read through the decision and the background of the cases? Also as Chief Justice John Roberts states it isn't a "win" for the detainees.

At least read through the documents and supporting arguements to understand how the court came to issue this opinion. The dissenters did not dissent on the basis that the detainees have no rights, they dissented on the fact that there was already a law that was passed based upon the direction the court gave in the prior case of Hamdan vs Rumsfeld.

Also the Combatant Status Review Tribunals in Gitmo classified these as guys "enemy combatants" rather then the alternative classification of "unlawful enemy combatants" which effectively removed the Tribunals jurisdiction because the Military Commissions Act passed by congress and signed by GWB deals only with unlawful combatants.

I am not saying these guys deserve special privileges or that they be afforded American Citizenship but it is fairly clear that if we want to be engaged in this war we cannot simply throw people into a black hole and forget about them.

Nemont
 
Dude

How the heck do you plant your crops, tend to them and harvest them when you are on the dang puter so often?


Ransom
 
We're haying right now, so it's vampire hours the last week.

Besides I'm bidding on ebay trying to snipe parts for my latest project car, so in between some of the auctions I have time to educate you for a minute. you're welcome.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-08 AT 08:41AM (MST)[p]>Dude, what kind of car are
>you working on?
>
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>"Thanks climate PhD 202" - TFinalshot
> Feb-05-08, 02:16 PM (MST)
>


A really cool gremlin that belonged to a guy that saw the grateful dead one time.

JB
 
No I'm going to let you have that Gremlin to go with your Pacer.

I'm working on an original '69 S code Mach 1 this year, nice solid two owner car but it needs a full restoration.
 
Crap, those are rare! 390 big block? Got any pics of her as is?



"Thanks climate PhD 202" - TFinalshot Feb-05-08, 02:16 PM (MST)
 
No , I always intend to take pictures before and along the restoration and I never do. It's just a rolling shell right now at the paint shop, I stripped it to bare metal, reskined the doors and did most of the body work but painting is the one thing I hire out.

A picture of my '70 Challenger is supposed to be on one of the Mopar Muscle Car calenders next year but I'll beleive it when I see it.
 

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