Gunna need another auction tag I guess

[Bluehair]

Ever wonder what happened to all those preference point and auction fees?

I would think with $100 million in the bank, they could haul a little more water.

I’m going to puke the next time I hear about a fee increase “for the animals”.

Arizona lawmakers would use surplus to fully fund public safety pensions

(The Center Square) – Arizona lawmakers have given early approval to invest much of the state’s anticipated budget surplus into fully funding the retirement funds of public safety workers.

www.thecentersquare.com

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I'm confused; what does your comments have to do with the link?

As for the latter, I'd much rather see the pensions paid by the STATE'S general revenue as it is, instead of dipping into the G&FD funds.

 

[idahomuleyhunter]

$100 million underfunded!!!!! How many game wardens do you have????

 

[Bluehair]

I think it’s a little disingenuous to always be ready with another fee “for the animals” when they have $100 million in the bank.

And the way I read this, the state is going to rob these unallocated funds to pay off pension liabilities.

I don’t see where the $100 mil goes to unfunded fish cop pensions. If so, sign me up.

As a NR, i sorta resent hunting revenues being used to pay down the DMV‘s debt.

Although I doubt this will pass, I would love to learn more about it. I’m ready to apologize if I’m wrong about this. Meanwhile, I’m all ears and mouth.

 

[idahomuleyhunter]

Pensions are liability promised to workers. The funds are segregated and once segregated cannot be comingled. Federal law mandates that pensions be funded to certain percentages of an actuarially required amount. If investment returns are good the fund grows and no new funding is needed. If not the state has to pony up more money.

As I read this, money is not coming from Game and Fish revenues at all, but the surplus in the general fund. And it's not robbing unallocated funds. The pension obligations are allocated and must be paid. It actually makes sense to pay down liabilities with a surplus rather than incur new ones.

$100 million under funded seems like a lot to me for an agency that isn't that big. Makes you wonder what kind of mismanagement led to that.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I think it’s a little disingenuous to always be ready with another fee “for the animals” when they have $100 million in the bank.

And the way I read this, the state is going to rob these unallocated funds to pay off pension liabilities.

I don’t see where the $100 mil goes to unfunded fish cop pensions. If so, sign me up.

As a NR, i sorta resent hunting revenues being used to pay down the DMV‘s debt.

Although I doubt this will pass, I would love to learn more about it. I’m ready to apologize if I’m wrong about this. Meanwhile, I’m all ears and mouth.

I guess we're reading two different articles. Where is this "another fee for animals.?

This --Arizona lawmakers have given early approval to invest much of the state’s anticipated budget surplus into fully funding the retirement funds of public safety workers -- has absolutely nothing to do with any G&F funds. It means excess money from the state's general funds, i.e tax driven, etc. -- will be ADDED to the NORMAL pension fund that has been used for state employees for years.

IOW, the state's sportsmen should be thankful the legislature isn't trying to glom on to the AGFD's funds to pay the pensions of G&F folks.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

As I read this, money is not coming from Game and Fish revenues at all, but the surplus in the general fund. And it's not robbing unallocated funds. The pension obligations are allocated and must be paid. It actually makes sense to pay down liabilities with a surplus rather than incur new ones.

Exactly!!

 

[Bluehair]

The link I posted lists departmental surpluses that would go to the ”general fund” (presumably; general fund was introduced to the discussion by you guys) to pay down pension liabilities. State finance jargon isn’t the point anyway.

Where do you guys think that $97 million “budget surplus” (your words Tony) came from? Inquiring minds want to know.

Two final comments. Yes, I know how a pension works. I had the pleasure of closing many legacy obligations over my career. There’s a reason it went the way of the Dodo.

And Tony, my b!tch is about the ever escalating fees we pay. I am consistently on record here suggesting we know should demand where the money goes before we get plundered yet again. I complained about the last “super tag” or whatever it was called.

If you want to get rid of bad government, stop paying for it. It’s not that hard.

As I said, if I’m wrong about this I’ll admit it. That’s why I would like to see a little more information, not necessarily opinion.

 

[idahomuleyhunter]

I didn't see anything about departmental surpluses.

 

[Bluehair]

Well, I sure hope I’m misreading this. It would help if they said whether the listed amounts are being aproprated to or from the various departments.

I have a hard time believing AZG&F racked up $97 million in unfunded pension liabilities. That seems like a significant “aw chit”.

For now I’ll hold my tongue until I can read up further.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

The link I posted lists departmental surpluses that would go to the ”general fund” (presumably; general fund was introduced to the discussion by you guys) to pay down pension liabilities. State finance jargon isn’t the point anyway.

Where do you guys think that $97 million “budget surplus” (your words Tony) came from? Inquiring minds want to know.

Two final comments. Yes, I know how a pension works. I had the pleasure of closing many legacy obligations over my career. There’s a reason it went the way of the Dodo.

And Tony, my b!tch is about the ever escalating fees we pay. I am consistently on record here suggesting we know should demand where the money goes before we get plundered yet again. I complained about the last “super tag” or whatever it was called.

If you want to get rid of bad government, stop paying for it. It’s not that hard.

As I said, if I’m wrong about this I’ll admit it. That’s why I would like to see a little more information, not necessarily opinion.

The budget surplus is a child of the general fund, which is what pays for the budget to start. Again, that surplus is most likely the results of higher/different tax bases, which are ALREADY providing the SURPLUS. There is no mention of any other fee increases; the only goal is the purpose for spending the surplus. Thus, the proposal is to add it to the already existing pension fund.

 

[Bluehair]

The budget surplus is a child of the general fund, which is what pays for the budget to start. Again, that surplus is most likely the results of higher/different tax bases, which are ALREADY providing the SURPLUS. There is no mention of any other fee increases; the only goal is the purpose for spending the surplus. Thus, the proposal is to add it to the already existing pension fund.

I hope that’s the case. Then we can lower tag fees by having the general fund cover up that $97 million turd.

 

[Bluehair]

Incidentally, much of these state surpluses are coming from Federal COVID relief funds.

Genius.?

 

[OutdoorWriter]

I hope that’s the case. Then we can lower tag fees

Now you're just being ornery. I'm beginning to think you're either a blond or a Democrat.

The state pension fund for state employees, which comes from the STATE'S -- not G&F revenues -- bank account has been paying the pensions for G&F officers right along. That won't change. Thus it has nothing to do with tag fees now or in the past.

Tag/license fees & other department generated funds are the sole property of G&F to use for its own operating budget, & fortunately it does NOT include having to pay pensions to its retired employees. The state's general fund does that.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Incidentally, much of these state surpluses are coming from Federal COVID relief funds.

Genius.?

That could be very possible.

 

[wetmule]

Now you're just being ornery. I'm beginning to think you're either a blond or a Democrat.

The state pension fund for state employees, which comes from the STATE'S -- not G&F revenues -- bank account has been paying the pensions for G&F officers right along. That won't change. Thus it has nothing to do with tag fees now or in the past.

Tag/license fees & other department generated funds are the sole property of G&F to use for its own operating budget, & fortunately it does NOT include having to pay pensions to its retired employees. The state's general fund does that.

Didn't Napolitano back in the day attempt to raid G&F funds to pay for her spending & deficits, maybe it was the Heritage fund? Can't remember but she suk'd as Gov.

 

[idahomuleyhunter]

Arizona lawmakers would use surplus to fully fund public safety pensions​

In its current form, Cook's legislation appropriates the following amounts:

Arizona Game and Fish Department $97,292,500

Original poster is correct - taking funds from agencies that have excess cash to pay for retirements

Since when does appropriating to mean taking from?

 

[brushcreek]

Since when does appropriating to mean taking from?

since the day state governments began - this bill is authorizing spending, the funds come from surpluses from various Arizona state agencies

 

[idahomuleyhunter]

No, they come from revenues that have yet to be allocated. I.e. surplus taxes and federal subsidies. Unless you're county the state treasury as the agency. Most agencies that collect revenues(outside treasury) keep them. I doubt many operate with a surplus, most are probably subsidized thru the general fund.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Didn't Napolitano back in the day attempt to raid G&F funds to pay for her spending & deficits, maybe it was the Heritage fund? Can't remember but she suk'd as Gov.

I recall her making an attempt many, many years ago, but I can't recall where the revenue originated or if she was successful.

 

[brushcreek]

ok I read the actual bill and have come to the conclusion that the article was written in a confusing manner - see bill language below. They are in fact transferring funds to help with retirement obligations, it has nothing to do with individual agency surpluses.

A. In addition to any other appropriations made in fiscal year 2021-2022, the following sums are appropriated from the state general fund in fiscal year 2021-2022 to the public safety personnel retirement system to be deposited in the following public safety personnel retirement system group employer accounts to reduce the unfunded accrued liability for the 10 following agencies:
1. Department of emergency and military affairs $ 8,559,300
2. Attorney general investigators $ 9,132,900 13
3. Arizona state parks board rangers $ 8,833,200 1
4. Department of liquor licenses and control $ 7,636,700
5. Arizona game and fish department $ 97,292,500 1
6. Arizona State University campus police $ 23,602,900
7. University of Arizona campus police $ 15,677,800
8. Northern Arizona University campus police $ 7,734,200

 

[OutdoorWriter]

Arizona lawmakers would use surplus to fully fund public safety pensions​

In its current form, Cook's legislation appropriates the following amounts:

Arizona Game and Fish Department $97,292,500

Original poster is correct - taking funds from agencies that have excess cash to pay for retirements

The proposed legislation will appropriate $97,292,500 from the BUDGET SURPLUS & use it to pay the pensions of G&F retirees. In a way, it GIVES money to the agencies listed.

 

[OutdoorWriter]

since the day state governments began - this bill is authorizing spending, the funds come from surpluses from various Arizona state agencies

It does no such thing.

 

[brushcreek]

The proposed legislation will appropriate $97,292,500 from the BUDGET SURPLUS & use it to pay the pensions of G&F retirees. In a way, it GIVES money to the agencies listed.

you are correct see my post above

 

[AZ8]

Think you misunderstood the article.

 

[idahomuleyhunter]

There's an article in the WSJ about the feds trying to claw back covid funds. I wouldn't be surprised if dumping the money into pensions isn't the solution to preventing that. Probably a good one too.

 

[EVILNR]

Took me about 3-4 years to bail on the AZ draw.
Money grabbing scam.

 

[AZNATIVE98]

Took me about 3-4 years to bail on the AZ draw.
Money grabbing scam.

I wish there were about 150,000 people just like you