HB 78 I'm All For It

slamdunk

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I thought it was just the 15 or so of us on MM bitching. I'll be damned, I guess it wasn't.(yes Slam that was aimed at you, you can slap me back ?)

Casey Snider, doing what the WB won't.

Which SUCKS, because I don't want politicians in wildlife management.

I also like the "small amount of tags" line.
 
I thought it was just the 15 or so of us on MM bitching. I'll be damned, I guess it wasn't.(yes Slam that was aimed at you, you can slap me back ?)

Casey Snider, doing what the WB won't.

Which SUCKS, because I don't want politicians in wildlife management.

I also like the "small amount of tags" line.

Don't confuse my acceptance of this as my own suspicions Hossy, I'm just try to shut the 15 up ???

And I agree....no politicians, outfitters, special interest heads or CWMU owners on the WB board.
 
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Don't confuse my acceptance of this as my own suspicions Hossy, I'm just try to shut the 15 up ???

And I agree....no politicians, outfitters, special interest heads or CWMU owners on the WB board.

Every hunter is a special interest.


So how much is "the fund"?
 
Every hunter is a special interest.


So how much is "the fund"?
You are correct, but i am referring to Conservation group heads when I say special interest.
The WB needs to be completely neutral, but with people who understand all sides.
 
There is no reason that 100% of the money raised off of any big game permit shouldn't go to the UDWR for projects that will increase the numbers of wildlife.
Not one red cent should go to any organization to be used for wages and benefits, Magazines, marketing, rent, utilities, Miscellaneous or for anything else.
 
There is no reason that 100% of the money raised off of any big game permit shouldn't go to the UDWR for projects that will increase the numbers of wildlife.
Not one red cent should go to any organization to be used for wages and benefits, Magazines, marketing, rent, utilities, Miscellaneous or for anything else.
Then who will run such a huge orchestrated organization completely free?
Are you willing to dedicate your life and give up your career for the sake of wildlife?
 
Then who will run such a huge orchestrated organization completely free?
Are you willing to dedicate your life and give up your career for the sake of wildlife?

Did they get into conservation for conservation, or a career?

If they want a career in wildlife, there is a place. They drive silver trucks.

Few million $7 is million yearly, hires the DWR some pretty good people
 
Then who will run such a huge orchestrated organization completely free?
Are you willing to dedicate your life and give up your career for the sake of wildlife?
You get rid of the organizations. Do something along the lines of Wyoming Super tags or Arizona raffles where 100% of the money goes back to wildlife. You don't need a brick and mortar building that costs $100,000 per year to rent and maintain. You don't need an organization that takes nearly 2.5 million dollars for wages.
The DWR could Hire one extra person to set up some kind of a monthly raffle that would bring in much more that the expo tags bring in.

Think about this, the amount of money the 200 expo tags brought in this year ($1,874,995) doesn't even cover wages for these organizations.
 
You get rid of the organizations. Do something along the lines of Wyoming Super tags or Arizona raffles where 100% of the money goes back to wildlife. You don't need a brick and mortar building that costs $100,000 per year to rent and maintain. You don't need an organization that takes nearly 2.5 million dollars for wages.
The DWR could Hire one extra person to set up some kind of a monthly raffle that would bring in much more that the expo tags bring in.

Think about this, the amount of money the 200 expo tags brought in this year ($1,874,995) doesn't even cover wages for these organizations.


What Bs make believe land are you living in?

Government agencies don't need buildings and they don't employ people and compensate them with wages???????

I got news for you a government building costs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a private sector building. And a government employee is waaaaaaaaay more expensive and waaaaaaaaaay less efficient than a private sector employee.
 
What Bs make believe land are you living in?

Government agencies don't need buildings and they don't employ people and compensate them with wages???????

I got news for you a government building costs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a private sector building. And a government employee is waaaaaaaaay more expensive and waaaaaaaaaay less efficient than a private sector employee.
There's already government buildings. No need to spend 100k for a private building.

There's not many government employees that cost 2.5 million.
 
What Bs make believe land are you living in?

Government agencies don't need buildings and they don't employ people and compensate them with wages???????

I got news for you a government building costs waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a private sector building. And a government employee is waaaaaaaaay more expensive and waaaaaaaaaay less efficient than a private sector employee.
True.

Except we already own the DWR buildings.
 
There's already government buildings. No need to spend 100k for a private building.

There's not many government employees that cost 2.5 million.


First how have you settled on this 2.5 million number? Second, why don't you share the average cost of compensation for a state dwr employee.
 
First how have you settled on this 2.5 million number? Second, why don't you share the average cost of compensation for a state dwr employee.
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"Under the permit program, the state sets aside a small number of hunting tags for conservation."

Wafj a small number of hunting tags really?
 
In 2021 the DWR gave out 6,280 limited entry and once in a lifetime permits. Anyone have the total number of conservation tags given out last year? I’m guessing it’s going to be well over the 1% mentioned above.

I’d include all the general season deer and elk permits, but those tags never seem to be auctioned off or put up for grabs at the expo, and I don’t believe that is a fair comparison.
 
In 2021 the DWR gave out 6,280 limited entry and once in a lifetime permits. Anyone have the total number of conservation tags given out last year? I’m guessing it’s going to be well over the 1% mentioned above.

I’d include all the general season deer and elk permits, but those tags never seem to be auctioned off or put up for grabs at the expo, and I don’t believe that is a fair comparison.
So this is about trophies and not hunting. Thanks for being honest.

Now I understand why so many people are fighting over this. Yall are pissed because you want more chances at horns and the herd be damned. It makes so much more sense now.:rolleyes:
 
You get rid of the organizations. Do something along the lines of Wyoming Super tags or Arizona raffles where 100% of the money goes back to wildlife. You don't need a brick and mortar building that costs $100,000 per year to rent and maintain. You don't need an organization that takes nearly 2.5 million dollars for wages.
The DWR could Hire one extra person to set up some kind of a monthly raffle that would bring in much more that the expo tags bring in.

Think about this, the amount of money the 200 expo tags
Now divide that number by 27, that is how many paid employees there are at MDF that I know of.
It's not as impressive or glamorous as it looks. Several of those positions are less than 50k.
 
Tri I never said that. Just pointing out the obvious fact that general season deer and elk permits are not auctioned off or put up for grabs in the 200 expo permits.

Go ahead and lump it all in there to get your 1% though.
 
27 paid employees?

Can you see where this gets "distasteful"?

17 states? Have chapters, yet the lion share of cash comes from Utah. And in fact, comes from auctioning Utah wildlife
 
Tri I never said that. Just pointing out the obvious fact that general season deer and elk permits are not auctioned off or put up for grabs in the 200 expo permits.

Go ahead and lump it all in there to get your 1% though.
Great idea. I agree. General season tags should be auctioned also. You talked me into it.
 
27 paid employees?

Can you see where this gets "distasteful"?

17 states? Have chapters, yet the lion share of cash comes from Utah. And in fact, comes from auctioning Utah wildlife
What percentage of the entire mdf budget comes from Utah auctioned tags? Let's here it.
 
27 paid employees?

Can you see where this gets "distasteful"?

17 states? Have chapters, yet the lion share of cash comes from Utah. And in fact, comes from auctioning Utah wildlife
You realize associated states that contribute their state tags goes right back to that state, don't you?

$400k went right to Arizona for the statewide deer tag auctioned in Utah at the Expo, as did others.
I'm sure they aren't complaining, in fact, they chose that stage for a reason.

It's ok to keep your $35 membership in your pocket, I won't judge you, and you're still welcome to come join us with any of the dozens of projects planned this year either way ?
 
Great idea Tri. Let’s swap the limited tags and replace them with general tags and see if we are able to generate as much money for conservation.
I'm willing to do that on one condition. You take %100 of the tags on a general unit and let MDF auction as many of those tags as it wants. Then they are put in charge of managing that entire unit. No added state dollars needed.

In 7 years I wonder what you will be crying about not being fair then.
 
I'm willing to do that on one condition. You take %100 of the tags on a general unit and let MDF auction as many of those tags as it wants. Then they are put in charge of managing that entire unit. No added state dollars needed.
In 7 years I wonder what you will be crying about not being fair then.
So turn a general season unit into a limited entry unit? Got it. Thanks for the lesson on how to generate conservation funds.

I’ve never said I don’t support conservation tags. There has been a lot of good habitat work that has come from the funds generated. Just pointing out how the funds are currently being generated, and which pool of tags are generating the conservation funds.
 
Lol.....I can't explain that, I'm not at the headquarters, nor am I at every state following the RD's and their fellow partners around.

This question is really digging deep.....
That's the problem wrapped up nicely, No one really knows what 27 people on the payroll of MDF do each week to help mule deer.

Here's another question for you @slamdunk . in your personal opinion of course, do you think that those 27 employees are providing $2.5 million dollars' worth of good for mule deer each year?
 
That's the problem wrapped up nicely, No one really knows what 27 people on the payroll of MDF do each week to help mule deer.

Here's another question for you @slamdunk . in your personal opinion of course, do you think that those 27 employees are providing $2.5 million dollars' worth of good for mule deer each year?


Do you know what a state biologist is doing today?
 
That's the problem wrapped up nicely, No one really knows what 27 people on the payroll of MDF do each week to help mule deer.

Here's another question for you @slamdunk . in your personal opinion of course, do you think that those 27 employees are providing $2.5 million dollars' worth of good for mule deer each year?
How bout you go find out, I love all you internet warriors asking all the pertinent questions. You do your drive by accusations get your like minded minions to agree with you online, but in the end never really try to find any real answers to the questions. Just throw some sh!t at the wall then complain about all the sh!t everywhere.
 
I think that is why they are trying to make these organizations more transparent. If they were on the up and up there would not be more need for transparency. Everyone see some kind of shady stuff going on, when there is a lot of money involved and lack of transparency you can bet some money and tags are being passed under the table.

Look how many of these organizations higher up member (big donors) miraculously gets tag that are out of reach for most people, just saying, just my opinion from personal experience and i don't care if anyone else on the internet agrees or disagrees with me.
 
I think that is why they are trying to make these organizations more transparent. If they were on the up and up there would not be more need for transparency. Everyone see some kind of shady stuff going on, when there is a lot of money involved and lack of transparency you can bet some money and tags are being passed under the table.

Look how many of these organizations higher up member (big donors) miraculously gets tag that are out of reach for most people, just saying, just my opinion from personal experience and i don't care if anyone else on the internet agrees or disagrees with me.
Nope you just like throwing sh!t and not backing it up. Toss away my man. Hell everyone else is doing it. ?
 

This article in the St. George News says pretty much they want all the moneys for these auction and tags to be more transparent so they can see where it is being spent.

In response to your response, how about you back up your assumptions of where all this money is being spent or stop throwing your own unproven poop against the wall and hoping it sticks.

If you can back up your accusations and prove to everyone shady stuff is not happening with this money then you may actually get some followers, until then your poop is just as sticky as everyone else's.
 
I can tell you this. Everyone is sooooooo worried about that money not one of you has asked how much is this new "fund" they are asking for.
 
Abs
That's the problem wrapped up nicely, No one really knows what 27 people on the payroll of MDF do each week to help mule deer.

Here's another question for you @slamdunk . in your personal opinion of course, do you think that those 27 employees are providing $2.5 million dollars' worth of good for mule deer each year?
Absolutely without question, because I am one of many who puts an auger in my hand boring holes for tens of thousands of various habitat.
It's my hands bleeding from tearing down old barbed wire fencing and coiling it up for disposal.
It's my sweat from hiking up a steep mountain hauling guzzler parts.
It's me holding a deer down so it can be collared.
I can go on, but you get my points.

So yes......100%.
The salaried personnel orchestrate it so I (we) can put it into sweat equity, and many of them join us as well.
 

This article in the St. George News says pretty much they want all the moneys for these auction and tags to be more transparent so they can see where it is being spent.

In response to your response, how about you back up your assumptions of where all this money is being spent or stop throwing your own unproven poop against the wall and hoping it sticks.

If you can back up your accusations and prove to everyone shady stuff is not happening with this money then you may actually get some followers, until then your poop is just as sticky as everyone else's.
Have you been living under a rock "pody"?
You come out of nowhere bringing up questions that have been answered a week ago?
Please don't waste my time at this point....
 

This article in the St. George News says pretty much they want all the moneys for these auction and tags to be more transparent so they can see where it is being spent.

In response to your response, how about you back up your assumptions of where all this money is being spent or stop throwing your own unproven poop against the wall and hoping it sticks.

If you can back up your accusations and prove to everyone shady stuff is not happening with this money then you may actually get some followers, until then your poop is just as sticky as everyone else's.

Awww, the ol' "no you prove me wrong approach"
I haven't made any accusations.

But since you asked I would point too the thousands of acres of habitat improvement across this state. You see I do actually have proof that the money is being spent the way I say it is. You on the other hand are making baseless accusations with no proof at all.
 
I can tell you this. Everyone is sooooooo worried about that money not one of you has asked how much is this new "fund" they are asking for.
Maybe I missed it, I did not see anything about a new fund, the way I understand it is they want to be more transparent with taxpayer money, which is odd for any government to do. They did an audit that raised questions. It seems to me that they are just trying to get the most out of a tag that belongs to the public taxpayers of Utah. The tag does not belong to the expo or the organization that is auctioning it off. Taxpayers of Utah should be able to see where all this money that is earned during auction sit going.
 
Oh no read the article. They are setting up a fund for it. You fellas will learn how government doesn't work some day.
 
Have you been living under a rock "pody"?
You come out of nowhere bringing up questions that have been answered a week ago?
Please don't waste my time at this point....
I do live under a rock. Is this bill only asking for transparency of the monies? If so then I do not see how it would affect various organizations operations, RMEF and the MDF would still get money for their projects, correct?

If this bill is just a government ploy to get money and not put it where it belongs, then I'm against it.
 
I do live under a rock. Is this bill only asking for transparency of the monies? If so then I do not see how it would affect various organizations operations, RMEF and the MDF would still get money for their projects, correct?

If this bill is just a government ploy to get money and not put it where it belongs, then I'm against it.
As I understand it, yes, you are correct.
It is simply a bill to appease the publics curiosity and suspicions to something that is already there and available to them.

It won't change a thing......
 
As I understand it, yes, you are correct.
It is simply a bill to appease the publics curiosity and suspicions to something that is already there and available to them.

It won't change a thing......
I agree it will not change anything.
The only reason I think it is good is because there are people out there that will throw a shitfit if they find out the killing of the publics animals is being auctioned to the highest bidder. And that is the only way they will see it. And those people belong to organizations that can bring in more money than us. Which will in turn have negative affect on hunting for us. Even though it sucks to have government in our hunting organizations it may actually benefit us if the cards are played right. They can show that the money is being spent on more than hunting and benefiting the environment and try to justify it that way vs. us saying we are using the money to make better hunting spots for hunters.
 
How bout you go find out, I love all you internet warriors asking all the pertinent questions. You do your drive by accusations get your like minded minions to agree with you online, but in the end never really try to find any real answers to the questions. Just throw some sh!t at the wall then complain about all the sh!t everywhere.

How the hell do you know what I do and don't do.
 
Abs
Absolutely without question, because I am one of many who puts an auger in my hand boring holes for tens of thousands of various habitat.
It's my hands bleeding from tearing down old barbed wire fencing and coiling it up for disposal.
It's my sweat from hiking up a steep mountain hauling guzzler parts.
It's me holding a deer down so it can be collared.
I can go on, but you get my points.

So yes......100%.
The salaried personnel orchestrate it so I (we) can put it into sweat equity, and many of them join us as well.
I never questioned the volunteers, not once.
I questioned the 27 paid employees taking 2.5 million dollars that comes from hunting permits. Is it really too much to ask that we get our money's worth out of our resources? I just can't believe that we are getting anywhere near 2.5 million dollars' worth of benefit per year from 27 MDF employees. If we were, we would see deer numbers increasing. Or, at the very least level.
 
You realize associated states that contribute their state tags goes right back to that state, don't you?

$400k went right to Arizona for the statewide deer tag auctioned in Utah at the Expo, as did others.
I'm sure they aren't complaining, in fact, they chose that stage for a reason.

It's ok to keep your $35 membership in your pocket, I won't judge you, and you're still welcome to come join us with any of the dozens of projects planned this year either way ?




They do complain, and have complained.

A similar expo type event has been proposed in Arizona. It was shut down.

In fact, I believe in Idaho, Wyoming, and Alaska as well.

We are THE ONLY state putting out tags like this. It's not even close.

They chose the expo, because it's where the big schlongs contest is. More deep pockets, with egos, mean a bigger contest. That's kinda how auctions work.

Believe me, I think you personally are a good dude, who believes in what he does, a does indeed put your heart into it, so I always try hard to not criticize YOU.



But I also know bs, when I read it.

That's just 17 employees. It doesn't include consultants, CPA, lawyers. The truth is, that number is much more, and that's BEFORE a dime goes to a project.

Now, add to that $fw employees, lawyers, CPA, and the handful of THE DONS side hustles.


And we don't even include what we pay the DWR employees to man the booths, and advertise.


Slam.

Honestly.

1.Why doesnt any of the states MDF is in, simply copy Utah's 500+ tag handout model, if it's so damn successful? Honestly.


2. Why, if what $fw is doing, is so fabulous, are 49 other states not copying it?

3. Why after millions to "save the island", did KUIU pay for sheep, not the "saviors".

4. Why did RMEF, MDF,$FW, after tens of millions taken "for wildlife", require the nature conservancy, who get zero tag money, to help them buy that ground east of Ogden?

You can keep just saying I'm a hater, and with $fw in particular, you are correct. But how about this time we get past that petty personal ****, and discuss the actual issues
 
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Oh no read the article. They are setting up a fund for it. You fellas will learn how government doesn't work some day.
From the article

To that end, the fund will manage more of the money coming in and ensure that it is disbursed to partner organizations with proper documentation, according to the bill’s text. In addition, the bill was amended to include a requirement for annual reporting to the Legislature regarding the amount of money in the fund, its sources and how the money is expended.

So, if this is the case then, government will be managing the money and projects that RMEF and MDF type groups are involved in. It will get really screwed up then.

Does anyone know what the discrepancies are that they are talking about in the audit they did?
 
As I understand it, yes, you are correct.
It is simply a bill to appease the publics curiosity and suspicions to something that is already there and available to them.

It won't change a thing......

For MDF, they are pretty transparent.

We know who this is aimed at
 
From the article

To that end, the fund will manage more of the money coming in and ensure that it is disbursed to partner organizations with proper documentation, according to the bill’s text. In addition, the bill was amended to include a requirement for annual reporting to the Legislature regarding the amount of money in the fund, its sources and how the money is expended.

So, if this is the case then, government will be managing the money and projects that RMEF and MDF type groups are involved in. It will get really screwed up then.

Does anyone know what the discrepancies are that they are talking about in the audit they did?

Devil's in the details.

But it looks like it can clear up redundancy. These groups do cooperative things from time to time. Could likely lead to need fewer hands involved, leaving more money out of payrolls, and into projects
 
Nothing to see here. Just 15 guys whining on MM but not doing anything to fix the problems...

____________

Legislators discussing the bill in the House Natural Resources, Agriculture, and Environment Committee meeting mentioned the controversy that surrounded the expo permit program, including a 2016 decision to entrust the state’s largest expo (and the accompanying share of lottery permits) to Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife.

The decision by the state wildlife agency drew the ire of many hunters and conservationists that alleged corruption was to blame for the choice, particularly because a competing nonprofit – the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation – who had promised to commit a much larger share of the expo’s proceeds to conservation efforts if entrusted with its management.

“It has generated controversy throughout the years, I think rightfully so,
” Snider said. “But I think this (bill) hopefully clears this up.”

To that end, the fund will manage more of the money coming in and ensure that it is disbursed to partner organizations with proper documentation, according to the bill’s text. In addition, the bill was amended to include a requirement for annual reporting to the Legislature regarding the amount of money in the fund, its sources and how the money is expended.
 
You aren't doing anything to fix it.

Can you even tell us what the problem is or are you going to keep parroting the same distraction?
 
Oh no read the article. They are setting up a fund for it. You fellas will learn how government doesn't work some day.

I prefer to read the bill, not articles. Lines 37-47 of the bill answer your question. Also see the fiscal note on the bill. There is no fiscal note here, only revenues that turn into expenditures.


37 (3) The fund consists of:
38 (a) wildlife conservation permit program revenue transferred to the division pursuant to
39 rules, made by the Wildlife Board in accordance with Title 63G, Chapter 3, Utah
40 Administrative Rulemaking Act;
41 (b) wildlife exposition program revenue transferred to the division pursuant to rules,
42 made by the Wildlife Board in accordance with Title 63G, Chapter 3, Utah Administrative
43 Rulemaking Act;
44 (c) money appropriated to the fund by the Legislature;
45 (d) contributions, grants, gifts, transfers, bequests, and donations to the fund accepted
46 by the division and specifically directed to the fund; and
47 (e) interest and earnings on the fund.
 
So the fund is completely open ended. Sounds like typical big government.

They might as well re-title it as a slush fund.

So what all can "the fund" be used for?
 
It is clear that the legislature recognizes the need to reign some things in that the WB can’t seem to do. It’s about time.
 
No it's clear they want a "fund".
It’s not just the conservation permits they are looking at, there is also a bill to clamp down on outfitting and the sale of wildlife locations. The legislature does not need a fund right now, they got more money piled up and coming in than they know what to do with.
 
Tri, your question is answered in my post. It’s very simple, actually. If you choose not to understand it, that is on you.
 
Tri, your question is answered in my post. It’s very simple, actually. If you choose not to understand it, that is on you.

Actually it wasn't.

Buzzh,

Buzz off. Last time we talked you were impaired and started accusing me of things I never said.

I asked specific questions. Vanilla provided the usual vague government answers that leave "funds" completely open for abuse.


For all any of you know the fund could take control of expo dollars, throw in some tax dollars, then some "transfers", make it pay 1.5 million a year for an annual gubmint audit, DONE BY CASEY SNYDER'S BIL, buy a truck for the dwr, and blow the rest on sex changes for druggy hobos.

I've been around state government.

OPEN ENDED GARBAGE LIKE THIS BILL IS EXACTLY WHY STATES ARE DEPENDING MORE AND MORE ON THESE ORGS TO HELP WILDLIFE.
 
Actually it wasn't.

Buzzh,

Buzz off. Last time we talked you were impaired and started accusing me of things I never said.

I asked specific questions. Vanilla provided the usual vague government answers that leave "funds" completely open for abuse.


For all any of you know the fund could take control of expo dollars, throw in some tax dollars, then some "transfers", make it pay 1.5 million a year for an annual gubmint audit, DONE BY CASEY SNYDER'S BIL, buy a truck for the dwr, and blow the rest on sex changes for druggy hobos.

I've been around state government.

OPEN ENDED GARBAGE LIKE THIS BILL IS EXACTLY WHY STATES ARE DEPENDING MORE AND MORE ON THESE ORGS TO HELP WILDLIFE.
Just a question here, but why don’t you ever do the research yourself instead of asking redundant questions here all day long after they have already been answered?
 
First I want yall to think. Second they haven't been answered.

Do you even remember what my questions were?


The one that cracks me up is the word "transfers". I sat and heard accusations for years from the same whiners about "commingling of funds" and HERE ARE THOSE EXACT SAME COMPLAINERS BACKING SOMETHING THAT IS OPEN FOR COMMINGLING OF FUNDS.
 
Then who will run such a huge orchestrated organization completely free?
Are you willing to dedicate your life and give up your career for the sake of wildlife?
Members have dues! They auction off a lot more than tags! They charge for tickets to their banquets and the Expo! They receive contributions in money and products from many of the national and local businesses for advertising at their functions. They charge a lot of money for the booths! They get money from the food vendors at their functions. They put their logo on hats, shirts, jackets, etc. which they sell. They get free advertising from the media where they promote their organization.

I'm probably missing a lot, but how do the other conservation organizations who don't have the Expo and Conservation tags pay their full-time leadership?
 
Actually it wasn't.

Yes it was. The entirety of what can go into the fund was quoted in my post. And exactly what the fund can be spent on is in the bill. It just requires reading it.


I asked specific questions. Vanilla provided the usual vague government answers that leave "funds" completely open for abuse.

No, it doesn’t actually. It significantly reduces the chance for abuse. You just have to read it.


For all any of you know the fund could take control of expo dollars, throw in some tax dollars, then some "transfers", make it pay 1.5 million a year for an annual gubmint audit, DONE BY CASEY SNYDER'S BIL, buy a truck for the dwr, and blow the rest on sex changes for druggy hobos.

No, it can’t. Again, what the fund can be spent on is in state code. You just have to read it.


OPEN ENDED GARBAGE LIKE THIS BILL IS EXACTLY WHY STATES ARE DEPENDING MORE AND MORE ON THESE ORGS TO HELP WILDLIFE.

It isn’t open ended at all. It closes the current open ended situation with the current money. I understand why you’re mad at Snider. He just cut your boy’s legs out from underneath him on the trail cams and now outfitter rules, and that is only the beginning. Buckle up buttercup.

The ONLY thing this bill does is take money that already exists but simply goes into the general fund and directs it to a specific fund so it isn’t co-mingled with other stuff and is more easily accounted for. I realize a dishonest hobbit doesn’t like open and transparent accounting, but the rest of us should.
 
Yes it was. The entirety of what can go into the fund was quoted in my post. And exactly what the fund can be spent on is in the bill. It just requires reading it.




No, it doesn’t actually. It significantly reduces the chance for abuse. You just have to read it.




No, it can’t. Again, what the fund can be spent on is in state code. You just have to read it.




It isn’t open ended at all. It closes the current open ended situation with the current money. I understand why you’re mad at Snider. He just cut your boy’s legs out from underneath him on the trail cams and now outfitter rules, and that is only the beginning. Buckle up buttercup.

The ONLY thing this bill does is take money that already exists but simply goes into the general fund and directs it to a specific fund so it isn’t co-mingled with other stuff and is more easily accounted for. I realize a dishonest hobbit doesn’t like open and transparent accounting, but the rest of us should.


I asked how much. That's a number slick. You answered with a bunch of open ended where. You said it's from existing funds. No it isn't. You are lying. What you posted was gifts and donations and "transfers".

I want dollar figures. Not BS words. Quit defending open ended gubmint speak and grab policies.

You don't have one clue how much money this will free up for any conservation. You don't have any clue how much it will cost.

You are just happy that you think it will screw people you don't like and that pleases you.

Quite frankly you are pitiful.
 
What is pitiful is how little you exactly understand what is happening here. Par for the course.

First no apples, then no cameras, and now no armies of watchers and paying finders fees.

Casey Snider might say at this point…..


BLAAAAAAM!
 
So they think they are going to make up several million dollars in target deficit with gifts, donations, and transfers. ?‍♂️
 
Hell yeah he's gonna say Blaaaaaaaam! He just suckered a bunch of hateful people to back him into screwing them out of %300 more money than they were scared of getting screwed out of.

????????

It's gonna suck not being able to pick your nose any more once you cut it off.
 
So they think they are going to make up several million dollars in target deficit with gifts, donations, and transfers. ?‍♂️


No, they KNOW they are going to make that, because this is money they’re already making! I know you’re too dense to even try to understand this, so my replies aren’t even for you. They are for anyone else still reading that actually wants to understand what this bill does.

This bill is about the 90% of money on auction sales for conservation and expo permits that goes into an account to be used for approved wildlife and conservation projects. It includes gifts and donations made in the same areas. These funds are brought in every year already.

All this bill does is take the money that is ALREADY COMING IN every year and takes it from the general fund where it can be hard to decipher where the money specifically goes, and puts it into a dedicated fund where it is no longer just part of a big pot and can easily be reviewed to ensure the money is used for the purpose the law already requires it to be used.

The legislature has not allocated a single penny in this. They have not changed any rules accompanying the conservation or expo permit processes. They simply have dedicated a specific fund where the already existing programs and monies will be stored (IE-the fund) so that there is more transparency and accountability over those funds.

Again, I can see how a tristate wouldn’t want that, because he’s the single most dishonest person to ever grace this forum. But for the rest of us normal people, this is a good thing that doesn’t do anything but allow the legislature to make sure conservation groups and the DWR are following the laws that allow these respective groups to even exist. All this is in the bill, and it’s really pretty simple. All it takes is one reading it. (And then being honest.)
 
I'm dishonest??

You haven't been able to answer a straight question about money yet.

You'll get the government you deserve. Not the one you want. You'll see.
 
Some great banter on the subject boys. HB 78 looks like it could come up a hair short, or possibly be similar to the likes of a Hung Jury of sorts. Regardless it’s not the size of the horse in the race as it is the size of its heart.

DBCFB231-48E2-4FD8-99E7-825F83148128.jpeg
 
Any thing the government gets involved with, the government always waste money on creating useless jobs.
Remember if the government is involved this money will have to be used for projects that are not always for the benefit of the animals it was intended for.
Big government programs not for me.
 
Any thing the government gets involved with, the government always waste money on creating useless jobs.
Remember if the government is involved this money will have to be used for projects that are not always for the benefit of the animals it was intended for.
Big government programs not for me.

The statute governing what this money is required to be spent on did not change. The things the money has to be spent on is exactly the same as it was before, now they will just be able to be sure that it goes to those things.

This was all government money before guys. It’s being changed from the DWR general fund to a dedicated conservation fund. That’s it. Nothing more.
 
The statute governing what this money is required to be spent on did not change. The things the money has to be spent on is exactly the same as it was before, now they will just be able to be sure that it goes to those things.

This was all government money before guys. It’s being changed from the DWR general fund to a dedicated conservation fund. That’s it. Nothing more.
Bull 5hit
 
I tell you what. Let's do a hypothetical.

Vanilla,

Outside of taxes what is the largest expenditure in the Vanilla family house hold.

You can be straight with me. I am not going to attack your family or make fun of you for answering this question.

Much thanks.
 
As johnnycake would say, I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you.

As for your hypothetical, tails don’t wag dogs in my world, Bilbo Baggins.


What are you scared of vanilla?

If you let me know what your biggest household expence is I'm going to explain it to you will understand it. No need for games.

So what is your biggest household expense?
 

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