Help Needed on Custom Rifle
- Thread starter GONHUNTIN
- Start date
R
rost495
Guest
Good results from Kirby Allen in Montana. Chris Matthews is in Missouri and does good work also.
Any local benchrest type smith would be fine.
I'd shy away from most of the gunstore gurus who slap on Shaw or Douglas barrels though. They can be good, but make sure you talk to some customers AND when they say they are tackdrivers, ask what that defines as. What some call a tackdriver, others laugh at.
Jeff
Any local benchrest type smith would be fine.
I'd shy away from most of the gunstore gurus who slap on Shaw or Douglas barrels though. They can be good, but make sure you talk to some customers AND when they say they are tackdrivers, ask what that defines as. What some call a tackdriver, others laugh at.
Jeff
B
Boman
Guest
I'd highly reccomend Rich Reilly of High Tech customs. He did my custom and its simply amazing. htcustoms.com
RELH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 17,483
GonHunting:
I see that Kilowatt directed your question towards me. I am no longer in the custom rifle business except for family and a few close friends. I can give you a few pointers to help you arrive at a finished package that you will want.
1. Figure out what is the max you will pay for your custom. This will be your guideline while talking to your gunsmith.
2. decide if you want a wood or synthetic stock. If you are going for consistant,year after year accuracy, you want synthetic stock.Price $200.00 to $400.00. Some persons love the beauty and warmth of a top line walnut stock. But if you go wood, the price will be higher. The stock blank for highly figure wood is very expensive. I have seen and held blanks that the asking price was $ 2,000.00, but you can get a very good looking blank in the ballpark of 400.00-700.00 dollars. The cost for inleting the wood blank and any checkering will have to be figured in along with the hand rubbed oil finish plus it should be pillar glass bedded.
3. Decide what your accuracy requirements are. If you want a guarantee of a specific size group, be prepared to pay more for that guarantee. So it pays to be reasonable unless you have alot of money your are willing to burn. When I was building hunting rifles, I did guarantee 3 shot groups under an inch at 100 yards with Federal factory ammo. I used Shilen barrels and most of the rifles would group far smaller then one inch, even the mags.
4. Make sure that the rifle is fitted to you for lenght of pull on the stock. also tell the smith what type of finish you want on the action and barrel. Do you want a highly polished "Master" finish, or do you want a satin bead non glare finish. And if the gunsmith wants more for a satin bead finish then a high polish finish, tell him to kiss off and go elsewhere. There is less polish work to apply a satin bead finish but some smiths jacked up their prices for this finish when it became a hot item wanted by hunters. Also check out his finish polish work, check to see that the letters on the barrel and action are not washed out on one side, if they are, he does not know how to polish prior to bluing.
Here is what I would do if I was building a serious custom hunting rifle. This formula will give you a top notch hunting rifle and not break the piggy bank doing it.
Mate your Win. M-70 action to a Shilen match grade barrel with a number 3 or #4 contour at 24-26 inch lenght, your choice.
satin bead finish or high polish finish is your personal choice.
Stock-for a serious hunting rifle, I would choose a synthetic stock over wood. Go with a H-S Precision or Bell & Carson or other top brand. Some have Aluminum bedding block, but this is not necessary as the stock can be bedded to the action and barrel. Have a Pachmayr decelerator pad or Sims Limbsaver pad fitted to the stock if it is a mag caliber. Your choice of sny. stocks are more limited with a Win. action Vs. Remington action.
Make sure the smith will fit the stock to you while wearing your normal hunting clothes for a proper fit in the field. I would request that the rifle be capable of 3 shots under 1 inch with factory ammo. I have found that Federal ammo is one of the most consistant accurate hunting ammo over other brands. Their Nosler Partition ammo in 300 mag usually gives groups of 3/4 to 1/2 inch.
If you shop around, you should be able to do this for under 1500 bucks. Would you believe that I was doing this for under 1000.00 bucks and I was even supply the new action just 4-5 years ago.
Good luck and shop around for a good gunsmith.
RELH
I see that Kilowatt directed your question towards me. I am no longer in the custom rifle business except for family and a few close friends. I can give you a few pointers to help you arrive at a finished package that you will want.
1. Figure out what is the max you will pay for your custom. This will be your guideline while talking to your gunsmith.
2. decide if you want a wood or synthetic stock. If you are going for consistant,year after year accuracy, you want synthetic stock.Price $200.00 to $400.00. Some persons love the beauty and warmth of a top line walnut stock. But if you go wood, the price will be higher. The stock blank for highly figure wood is very expensive. I have seen and held blanks that the asking price was $ 2,000.00, but you can get a very good looking blank in the ballpark of 400.00-700.00 dollars. The cost for inleting the wood blank and any checkering will have to be figured in along with the hand rubbed oil finish plus it should be pillar glass bedded.
3. Decide what your accuracy requirements are. If you want a guarantee of a specific size group, be prepared to pay more for that guarantee. So it pays to be reasonable unless you have alot of money your are willing to burn. When I was building hunting rifles, I did guarantee 3 shot groups under an inch at 100 yards with Federal factory ammo. I used Shilen barrels and most of the rifles would group far smaller then one inch, even the mags.
4. Make sure that the rifle is fitted to you for lenght of pull on the stock. also tell the smith what type of finish you want on the action and barrel. Do you want a highly polished "Master" finish, or do you want a satin bead non glare finish. And if the gunsmith wants more for a satin bead finish then a high polish finish, tell him to kiss off and go elsewhere. There is less polish work to apply a satin bead finish but some smiths jacked up their prices for this finish when it became a hot item wanted by hunters. Also check out his finish polish work, check to see that the letters on the barrel and action are not washed out on one side, if they are, he does not know how to polish prior to bluing.
Here is what I would do if I was building a serious custom hunting rifle. This formula will give you a top notch hunting rifle and not break the piggy bank doing it.
Mate your Win. M-70 action to a Shilen match grade barrel with a number 3 or #4 contour at 24-26 inch lenght, your choice.
satin bead finish or high polish finish is your personal choice.
Stock-for a serious hunting rifle, I would choose a synthetic stock over wood. Go with a H-S Precision or Bell & Carson or other top brand. Some have Aluminum bedding block, but this is not necessary as the stock can be bedded to the action and barrel. Have a Pachmayr decelerator pad or Sims Limbsaver pad fitted to the stock if it is a mag caliber. Your choice of sny. stocks are more limited with a Win. action Vs. Remington action.
Make sure the smith will fit the stock to you while wearing your normal hunting clothes for a proper fit in the field. I would request that the rifle be capable of 3 shots under 1 inch with factory ammo. I have found that Federal ammo is one of the most consistant accurate hunting ammo over other brands. Their Nosler Partition ammo in 300 mag usually gives groups of 3/4 to 1/2 inch.
If you shop around, you should be able to do this for under 1500 bucks. Would you believe that I was doing this for under 1000.00 bucks and I was even supply the new action just 4-5 years ago.
Good luck and shop around for a good gunsmith.
RELH
R
rost495
Guest
WTF? What crock of help is that supposed to mean? If its pre 64 and you rebore, its not factory anymore. If its shot out then the only great way for a good tube is replace. I"m hoping I misunderstand the statement.
Jeff
Jeff
D
D13er
Guest
it is a 27".............what the heck does that mean??
JB
JB
D
D13er
Guest
if your building a custom I suppose you could trim the barrel to 32 if you thought it was needed.
JB
JB
R
rost495
Guest
Can you say he abandoned his thread and got the short end of the stick from his "friend"?
R
rost495
Guest
Ok, maybe I'm an AH but could you please at least explain the 27 inch thing. I think a bunch of us that have years of shooting/smithing experience are still extremely baffled or confused at the advice and or reason for it.
Thanks, Jeff
Thanks, Jeff
rost495, where the hell do you see where I mentioned a pre '64 action, if it were, I would not even do anything with the rifle, all he was saying about the 27" bbl that it was a rareity from the factory that way, I have never seen a sporter bbl in a 27", I have seen heavy bbls so that is the reason.
it is a 7mm mag so if anyone interrested in buying, let me know...
sorry for being such an ass but it just torqued me off that you guys trying to put words in my mouth
it is a 7mm mag so if anyone interrested in buying, let me know...
sorry for being such an ass but it just torqued me off that you guys trying to put words in my mouth
R
rost495
Guest
AH here 
Internet can start such things.... Note I said IF. I could see no other reason for a rifle to be worth keeping in one piece.
I'm not up to snuff enough on barrel lengths to know how rare that is in factory. Its not rare on custom guns.
I'll speak on the behalf of a few of us with the assumption that I speak for us all. We just didn't get the reason for mentioning the 27 inch tube and keeping it together. In fairness its how I post sometimes when in a hurry too. But in fairness you did a very poor job in explaining why.
And FWIW I think most of us were making sure you were not getting seriously bad advice from a friend. Thats extremely common at time. Being that you wanted a custom rifle, and even if the factory 27 inch tube is rare, its still similar to my Pre 64 comment. If you bore it out or recut the chamber its worth nothing after the mods. So I hope you can see why we were both confused and concerned.
I think I see you selling it intact as a factory unit, and if thats the case and its actually rare, I hope like heck you can get enough out of it to fund the whole custom rifle!!!
Good luck, AH, AKA rost495(469....) aka Jeff out. ;-)
Internet can start such things.... Note I said IF. I could see no other reason for a rifle to be worth keeping in one piece.
I'm not up to snuff enough on barrel lengths to know how rare that is in factory. Its not rare on custom guns.
I'll speak on the behalf of a few of us with the assumption that I speak for us all. We just didn't get the reason for mentioning the 27 inch tube and keeping it together. In fairness its how I post sometimes when in a hurry too. But in fairness you did a very poor job in explaining why.
And FWIW I think most of us were making sure you were not getting seriously bad advice from a friend. Thats extremely common at time. Being that you wanted a custom rifle, and even if the factory 27 inch tube is rare, its still similar to my Pre 64 comment. If you bore it out or recut the chamber its worth nothing after the mods. So I hope you can see why we were both confused and concerned.
I think I see you selling it intact as a factory unit, and if thats the case and its actually rare, I hope like heck you can get enough out of it to fund the whole custom rifle!!!
Good luck, AH, AKA rost495(469....) aka Jeff out. ;-)
RELH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 17,483
According to my books, Winchester started making the M-70 Magnum in 1972 to this date. they were only offered in 24 inch barrels only. There are several models, Target, Ultra match, Varmint that were offered in 26 heavy or med-heavy barrels, but none of them in 7 mm mag. I think you better check with Winchester to ascertain if your action-barrel is original factory or was re-barreled later by a previous owner.
I can not find any 27 inch barrel listed for M-70 rifles in any of my gun traders guides.
If your gun is a post 64, it has very little value as a collector, and even if the barrel was installed by the Winchester custom shop, it still may have very little value over being a shooter. 50 years from now may be another story, but you would have to show proof from Win. that it was a special order barrel.
RELH
I can not find any 27 inch barrel listed for M-70 rifles in any of my gun traders guides.
If your gun is a post 64, it has very little value as a collector, and even if the barrel was installed by the Winchester custom shop, it still may have very little value over being a shooter. 50 years from now may be another story, but you would have to show proof from Win. that it was a special order barrel.
RELH
