HEY Lumpy / efa???

elkassassin

elkassassin

Long Time Member
Messages
37,032
Wondering If You/Somebody Can Dig Back & Find Which Deer Units/Regions Were Managed So Poorly They Had To Be Closed For Five Years?

Looking For The Units & The Years!

I Remember These:

Book Cliffs

Henry Mountains!

San Juan!

BumbleBee

Gonna Add Vernon!

And Paunsaugunt!

I Know There's Several More!

Thanks!
 
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I know they closed the browse area of pine valley for about five years. I was there when it reopened in 2001. I saw one deer in three days. How well did that closer turn out. To this day it has never come back from being one of the best units in the state in the late 80s.
 
Hey ridge?

If It Was That Bad After A 5 Year Closure I Can Only Imagine How F'ED Up It Was Before!

ridgetops said:
I know they closed the browse area of pine valley for about five years. I was there when it reopened in 2001. I saw one deer in three days. How well did that closer turn out. To this day it has never come back from being one of the best units in the state in the late 80s.
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Bumble Bee, also in the Pine Valley Unit.

Was the Oak Creek closed…… seems like that’s a vague memory but can’t remember for sure.
 
Yes they closed oak creek. It was a virus or parasite from what I remember. There was only one big buck on the southern half of the unit in the late 70s. His name was Frank, he evaded our family hunting group for about five years straight
 
Betterluckythangood said:
Yes they closed oak creek. It was a virus or parasite from what I remember. There was only one big buck on the southern half of the unit in the late 70s. His name was Frank, he evaded our family hunting group for about five years straight
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Apparently it was a virus that took down the browse unit too and the predators have kept it down ever since.
 
Lots of stellar bucks killed in the 80’s on the oak creek. Late 80’s, they vanished. I’d heard it was some sort of virus? Either way, there were pretty much zero deer left.
 
elkassassin said:
How Bout It JakeH?

Can You Look It up For Us?

I'll Bet you Were Fairly Young At The Time?
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Correct I was pretty young,

The only ones I know of was the bookcliffs and Henry's mountains.

Both were opened back up in 2000 I believe, and both made into LE units and both saw major herd declines the past 15 years, and both have been extremely limited on hunter take.

I think it's safe to say that "over hunting" has not been the cause of the population decline.

But hell there are guys that say we over hunt Antelope Island with its two tags, so what do I know.
 
So?

My Question Is For The KING?

Here Ya Go KING Niller!

You'd Make A Good Buddy With The Guy On The Podcast!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

You Keep Doubling The Tags & Within Just A Couple Years Several Units Have To Be Closed!

Now We Know How Hard You WHINE Over Cutting Tags!

How PISSY Are You Gonna Be When Several Units Have To Be Closed?

And Again!

Now Don't Tell Me It Can't Happen!

I've Seen It Happen!

Your Plan When It Gets Bad Enough Units Have To Be Closed?
 
I recall some of the units being closed for less than 5 years Bess.
I wanna say the Pauns only closed 3? Could be wrong. I'm also pretty sure the Vernon closed for only a couple because I hunted it when it opened back up. Lots of young bucks but nothing much with age. They also issued like 250 permits so it was really just being managed for quantity not quality.
 
elkassassin said:
So?

My Question Is For The KING?

Here Ya Go KING Niller!

You'd Make A Good Buddy With The Guy On The Podcast!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

You Keep Doubling The Tags & Within Just A Couple Years Several Units Have To Be Closed!

Now We Know How Hard You WHINE Over Cutting Tags!

How PISSY Are You Gonna Be When Several Units Have To Be Closed?

And Again!

Now Don't Tell Me It Can't Happen!

I've Seen It Happen!

Your Plan When It Gets Bad Enough Units Have To Be Closed?
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One big reason Niller is for more tags is probably because he is nervous a lynch mob with a noose is going to come after him and his LL here in a couple years when they figure out he is getting ten tags to their one.
 
elkassassin said:
So?

My Question Is For The KING?

Here Ya Go KING Niller!

You'd Make A Good Buddy With The Guy On The Podcast!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

You Keep Doubling The Tags & Within Just A Couple Years Several Units Have To Be Closed!

Now We Know How Hard You WHINE Over Cutting Tags!

How PISSY Are You Gonna Be When Several Units Have To Be Closed?

And Again!

Now Don't Tell Me It Can't Happen!

I've Seen It Happen!

Your Plan When It Gets Bad Enough Units Have To Be Closed?
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We haven't had any units closed since option 2 (2012) and we're probably not going to see any units close any time soon.
 
There's A Couple About To Close Their selves!

Just Gonna Keep Poundin Them & If Niller Gets his Way Double The Tags Huh?

Ya!

That Oughta Fix Everything!

ridgetops said:
We haven't had any units closed since option 2 (2012) and we're probably not going to see any units close any time soon.
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Betterluckythangood said:
One big reason Niller is for more tags is probably because he is nervous a lynch mob with a noose is going to come after him and his LL here in a couple years when they figure out he is getting ten tags to their one.
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If it's taking ten years for a general season tag somebody is not doing something right.
I have to chuckle at the LL hate.
 
They had to close them because they couldn't control how many people were hunting those sub units because of state wide tags for everyone or later on, once the 5 regional tags kicked in. Big difference. I'm amazed you guys have forgotten those details or have you just choose to for arguments sake? 🙄
 
Bess, in your expert opinion why did the Henry's population decline by around 50% the last 12 years or so?

I will keep using it as an example because it seems to closely mirror your view on how we should manage the whole state.
 
Shadow said:
I think they did close Oak Creek for a couple years in the late 80’s early 90’s then reopened it as LE in about 93, maybe 94?
My dad drew in 94 and I drew it in 96.
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I dont think the oak creek was ever closed, it was a 3 pt and better unit for a few years tho.
 
With Proper Management None Of Them Should Be Shut Down!

I Don't Think Any Of Them Should Be Shut Down notdon!

So?

With 30+ Smaller Units We Still Can't Manage For A Decent Deer Herd?

STATUS QUO!

notdonhunting said:
More Units that have 4+ rating than a 1.8 rating.

Name two units that should be shut down!
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Well JakeH!

You Wanna Hear The Broken Record Again,Right?

The Henri-es Deer Herd Has Never Been A Big Herd Since The Closure!

If I Lived Closer To The Henr-es A Few Of Them Coyotes Would Be Getting Hunted!

The CREAM Of The Crop Skimmed For How Many Years Now?

Poaching Hasn't Done It Any Good!

Once Again,A Combination Of Several Things,I Only Mentioned A Few!

The List Goes On & On!

What I Get A Kick Out Of Is All The Boys In The State That Have Never Been There Think There Are 1,000's Of Deer On The Henri-es,There Ain't,Even After The Closure When They Opened It Back Up The Numbers Were Low For A Mountain Range Of That Size!

When's The Last Time You Heard Of A 40" Buck coming From There JakeH?

I'm Talkin Width,Not Total Score!:D

There Was Some Nice Bucks Taken Last Fall Down There But Not everybody Got Big Bucks!







JakeH said:
Bess, in your expert opinion why did the Henry's population decline by around 50% the last 12 years or so?

I will keep using it as an example because it seems to closely mirror your view on how we should manage the whole state.
Click to expand...
 
One More Thing JakeH!

Can You Post The Estimated Numbers Of Deer For The Henrie's Since They Re-Opened It?

Remember When I Suggested Cutting 10 Tags & Niller Had A Come Apart With Me?

When In Fact The DWR Had Already Cut 10 Tags & I Didn't Know About It Until You Posted It!

He Still Hasn't Answered My Question On That One!

In Nillers Mind If The DWR Cuts The Tags Everything Is A-F'N-OK!
 
elkassassin said:
With Proper Management None Of Them Should Be Shut Down!

I Don't Think Any Of Them Should Be Shut Down notdon!

So?

With 30+ Smaller Units We Still Can't Manage For A Decent Deer Herd?

STATUS QUO!
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I would say any archery hunt that up around 40 percent is nothing to complain about and how about some of them muzzleloader and rifle hunts 50 to 70+ percent, I believe the the south slope yellowstone 52 percent and the south Slope bonanza 74 percent. After all the complaining I have heard from you about them units, you was just trying to keep them a secret. The unit I hunted had a 60 percent succes (not me I ate tag soup) and I gave it a 4 for satisfaction. The only reason I did not give it a 5 because I saw maybe 10 other hunters and it felt like I was over crowded😁
 
notdonhunting said:
I would say any archery hunt that up around 40 percent is nothing to complain about and how about some of them muzzleloader and rifle hunts 50 to 70+ percent, I believe the the south slope yellowstone 52 percent and the south Slope bonanza 74 percent. After all the complaining I have heard from you about them units, you was just trying to keep them a secret. The unit I hunted had a 60 percent succes (not me I ate tag soup) and I gave it a 4 for satisfaction. The only reason I did not give it a 5 because I saw maybe 10 other hunters and it felt like I was over crowded😁
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Here’s the problem notdon.

When we issued 200,000 tags, 40% of the hunters killed 80,000 bucks. That’s a lot of opportunity for hunters and a lot of deer in the State.

Now we issue 60,000 tags, 40% of the hunters kill 24,000 buck. 1/3 the deer, 1/3 the hunters, 1/3 the opportunity.

A heck of a lot less deer there for a lot let hunters and a lot less bucks to kill.

Be careful of what these % reports tell you. It’s the same with buck/ratios. 20 buck per 100 does ie: 20% bucks on a Unit means absolutely nothing if we have 4,000 deer on a unit…. when we can and should have 15,000.

Just saying…….
 
elkassassin said:
With Proper Management None Of Them Should Be Shut Down!

I Don't Think Any Of Them Should Be Shut Down notdon!

So?

With 30+ Smaller Units We Still Can't Manage For A Decent Deer Herd?

STATUS QUO!
Click to expand...
You keep saying they are going to get shut down but down deep, you really don't believe it will happen anytime soon. I'm sure you're having a great time running around crying wolf.
 
@elkassassin
The Deer herd around Vernal must really be thriving if they are giving out that many doe tags.
1000007147.jpg
 
2lumpy said:
Here’s the problem notdon.

When we issued 200,000 tags, 40% of the hunters killed 80,000 bucks. That’s a lot of opportunity for hunters and a lot of deer in the State.

Now we issue 60,000 tags, 40% of the hunters kill 24,000 buck. 1/3 the deer, 1/3 the hunters, 1/3 the opportunity.

A heck of a lot less deer there for a lot let hunters and a lot less bucks to kill.

Be careful of what these % reports tell you. It’s the same with buck/ratios. 20 buck per 100 does ie: 20% bucks on a Unit means absolutely nothing if we have 4,000 deer on a unit…. when we can and should have 15,000.

Just saying…….
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You're 100% right😁 but do you really think not shooting a 250 bucks on the Fish Lake is going to bring that unit back to 15,000.
They got to improve the winter habitat for deer in the area the deer actually winter and I do believe the state and BLM is finally starting to recognize that. There has been alot of good habitat improvement projects through the years that deer are not using. You can drive by some of these places and you will see minimal deer but you drive around the hill and it is in area they have not improved, the bitter brush is old and stumpy and the "sagebrush", black sage is stunted and dying the big sage has been feed off at the level the deer can reach the growth is on high up and the PJ,S have completely over took the hill sides and the only real growth of any food is in the bottm of the draws and the flat valley floor, that is where you will see the majority of deer that live in that area.
A lot easier for predators to thrive on deer when they are in a weaking state.
I am not preaching to the choir and the clergy, you guys get it. You Deloss you have fought the fight, I am not telling you anything new, but there is guys that hunt, probably majority of guys that hunt that think just because there's miles upon miles of sagebrush that there is plenty for deer to survive on. The guys that know better know that not all sage brush is palatable to deer and alot that is palatable is old and dying not producing the needed new growth
I could be completely wrong but that is how I see it.
 
So ridge?

You Think It's Gonna Fix Itself?

You Gonna Jump On The Wagon Of:

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

DOUBLE THE TAGS!

That Oughta Fix EVERY-F'N-THING!

ridgetops said:
You keep saying they are going to get shut down but down deep, you really don't believe it will happen anytime soon. I'm sure you're having a great time running around crying wolf.
Click to expand...
 
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And Remember!

A Buck That Wasn't Taken & Is Somehow Still Alive After The Seasons Close Is Just Taking Up Space On The Landscape!
 

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