HORRIFIC!!!

They're saying 27 dead, one gunman still on the loose.

I don't know what you do about it, when someone plans to die they're not easy to reason with or scare.

It's not going to be easy to laugh off the call for tighter gun laws long at this pace.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-12 AT 12:50PM (MST)[p]Due to the fact this incident involved a large amount of young kids, this will be the straw that broke the camel's back. If a "assault rifle" was used, you will see a ban on all so called assault rifles that are semi auto with detachable magazines within 60 days.

If the shooter purchased his ammo via a internet order, you will see a ban on that or severe restrictions on the amount of ammo you can purchase.

Will it cure the problem, hell no! but the Brady bunch and other political anti gunners could care less. They want gun bans and nothing else will please them.

If you check on these mass shootings, you will see that a good percentage of the shooters had a history of mental problems that came to the attention of law enforcement or mental health workers prior to them going on their shooting rampage.

We need to have laws that will require these people to be reported by mental health workers. Most states as in CA. have laws that allow law enforcement to place a hold on a person for 72 hours to allow mental health to ascertain if they are a danger to themselfs or others. If a person is placed under a mental health hold, or a mental health worker has a client that is a possible danger to themself or others, their guns should be seized and they are placed on a central list that can be checked to prevent the purchase of a firearm.

The only way they get their guns back and off the list is to be exzamined by a mental health board and deemed to not be a danger to themself or others.

Never will happen as the mental health profession is strongly against having to report patients that are sucidal or having extreme anger problems. We used to lock up our mental cases but liberal laws stopped that and now we must wait for them to kill before we put them in a mental instuition.

Take the guns away and they will use a vehicle to plow into a packed crowd in front of a school or theater or sports event. Then we can ban all vehicles as killer cars.

RELH
 
Something is going to give, I agree this will be the straw. There is just TOO MUCH of this going on.
 
This literally made me sick. Shed tears and prayed for the victims and families throughout my workout this morning. This violence will not stop until We The Sheeple get involved and take a stand. The best training the state ever sent me to was put on by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. He warned that this would happen and continue to happen in this country as the majority of our population consists of sheep that cannot deal with or even comprehend violence and reality. The Sheepdogs can not protect the sheep as there are far too few Sheepdogs and far too many wolves running wild. The Sheepdogs hands are tied by rules and regulations that make them a reactionary force instead of a proactive/preventative one. We need to have local teams of trained volunteers consisting of civilians, LEO's and vets formed into Community Emergency Response Teams (CERT). Every school in this country should have one of these teams assigned to it. There should be no less than two of the team members on duty at the school anytime school is in. Sound crazy? If you say yes, well then I believe it is you that is crazy. This is a proven model that has been in effect for years in a country that is victimized by terrorists acts on a regular basis. I do realize this will most likely never come to be in the United States as the SHEEPLE will cry Baa!, having armed team members on campuses might intimidate or damage the developing brains of our children that would be exposed to the presence of the armed team members that are there to protect them. Yet these same SHEEPLE think nothing of letting these same children who's brains are still developing come home after school and spend hours playing violent, interactive video games where bonus points are given for "head shots" and killing "cops". The SHEEPLE of this country have no idea of the desensitizing effect this has on our children. The military and LE has known the benefit of utilizing training of this nature for many years and started utilizing it shortly after WWII by shooting at silhouette targets and 3D human targets instead of bullseye targets. This got the shooter accustomed to shooting another human. Since the computer generated/ interactive training age the military and LE agencies have used this type of interactive training extensively. The result has been a significant increase in hits vs shots taken. For most of us the thought of taking another human life is unthinkable, and it should be as that is how we are wired if we are normal. The viewing and playing of violent interactive games messes this wiring up. The human brain is not fully developed until we are in our twenties, so don't think that these "games" do not have a negative affect on our youth. For those who doubt what I say, please take the time to do a little research for yourself before you slam me. As far as gun control, thats a joke. Take every gun in this country, de-mill it and in a week anyone who wants one will have one. Drugs are illegal, hows that working? It's illegal to murder, steal, rape, etc...Hows that working. Our society has gone to crap. The government and media has forced God out of our lives as best it can, how's that working?


Norkal

"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
 
Now god is going to save us from this crap? Hitler was a christian. maybe by god you mean allah his record is a little better.


It doesn't matter if gun control will work, people are going to demand change in our current laws sine this crap is becoming a daily event. the best thing the NRA and gun owners can do right now is keep a low profile and hope people have enough other things to think about.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-14-12 AT 03:53PM (MST)[p]
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/14/Bloomberg-politicizes-shooting

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/14/Menino-gun-control

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...ition-more-gun-control-measures#ixzz2F3SOKi5M


Gun owners, like me, should be in the lead in getting a conversation started about this issue, because if we don't guys like in these links are going to have it for us. Don't hide behind the NRA and it's lunatic agenda.

Nemont
 
Having a cop at every school an armed teacher would be a cheaper and would prevent a lot of this from happening,this is costing millions of dollars from law suits.Virgnia Tech was close to 20,000,000?
 
440,
Hitler a Christian? Really? Yes he was baptized Catholic, so what, that does not make him any more Christian than anyone else. He was no Christian. He used God and religion only to benefit his political agenda. In fact he felt that he was above Christianity. As for allah, who is that? 440, believe in God or not, can you deny that the world would be a far better place, with less violence and evil if we all followed "God's" laws? My point is that we have allowed the government and the media to take good values and replace them with bad. Society is ever increasingly violent. The only reason our murder rates have not skyrocketed is that our medical technology saves the majority of victims of violent crimes that would have died 30 or 40 years ago. Do a little research on the psychological effects on children and young adults that are routinely exposed to violent movies/programs and violent interactive games. Then get back with me.
Still praying for you along with many others.

Norkal

"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
 
What do you reccommend Nemont? Since we should not hide behind the NRA and it's lunatic agenda. Do you propose that we ban the type of guns used in this incident. Two semi-auto handguns were used. It appears he did not use the 223 cal Bushmaster that was in his car. He also was not old enough to purchase the guns under federal laws and I"m willing to bet under New York state laws.

The anti gun lobby will not address the root cause of these incidents, as it does nothing to further their cause of banning ownership of guns. Are you going to sit by and go along with that agenda of gun bans, which may mean your semi auto pistols since that was used? Or go along with banning so called "assault rifles" as the anti gun crowd will twist this to include.

What is your answer Nemont, since we should not go with the NRA and it's lunatic agenda of no gun bans?

RELH
 
Do you know how you get your way in politics? You engage your opposition. Having the NRA with a zero tolerance for even a discussion of anything regarding guns only makes those in the middle run away from those of us who support the right to keep and bear arms.

It isn't not an either or proposition. You can have a discussion regarding the ownership of firearms, the fact that our Constitution allows us to have them and own them and still have a sane policy regarding the insane not having access to them.

You parrot what the NRA position is, which is scorched earth, not even a discussion which guarantees that there will be more draconian gun laws because unless you haven't notice the NRA's friends are fewer and fewer in Washington.

I didn't say ban anything but if you allow only the NRA to speak for gun owners and they keep their purity test, they will be as successful as Grover Norquist in never seeing a tax increase. Instead of letting the NRA speak for all gun owners we the people need to get involved.

I take you support the NRA's position of making sure guns are eventually taken from people because of their policy of mass delusion.

I 100% Support the 2nd Amendment, I 0% support the NRA.

Nemont
 
Nemont I agree with you, the only one who could make this worse right now than the NRA is Uncle Tard. If you know what to say go for it, because if I had to defend assult weapons and hi cap clips to someone wanting to ban them right now I don't know how I'd play it.


Nimrod, Hitler was a christian accept it. he not only justified much of his agenda with the bible he was too cosy with the Vatican.

How do you explain the top 10 nations with the lowest murder rates? not many christians there, and Iceland ranks high on the list for athiest population . if religion fixed violence what is going on in mexico? now that is as christian of nation as you can get. funny, of Mexico,Italy, Spain and the US none made the top 10 list for low murder rates yet they're very christan. WTF?

By the way, you won't like Icelands gun laws, hard to say stiff gun control doesn't help with gun violence. the population is low, but gun violence is nearly does not exist.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-lowest-murder-rates.html




Stay thirsty my friends
 
Murder rates low in non Christian countries, that is a flat out LIE, propigated by liberals, and Non Christians.

Oh, Irag, Iran, Syria, Egypt,Afganastan... all have LOW murder rates, BS.

Look at the number of people that are MURDERED in those countries by their leaders. Many many murdered by Their Athiest, and Muslim leaders. The murder rate is FAR FAR higher in those countries.
Do a little research before you try to LIE to us.

GEEZ.
 
Very sad! I like all of you feel horrible for the parents that have lost children. Bringing religion into this means little either way. Six of the countries with the lowest murder rates are African and are a combination of Christian and Muslim, Saudi Arabia and Oman Muslim countries are both in the lowest murder rates, as is Finland and Iceland countries that hold a large atheist population. The point is religion or lack of has NOTHING to do with this. RELH wrote something I liked the mentally unstable have got to have more regulations on them. It might have stopped Aurora and possibly CT.

Banning guns does little to stop this tragedy as evidence when crazy people use whatever they can to take out their rage.

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/w...en-near-china-school-20121214,0,6383015.story
 
I agree with your comment Cornhusker.
It is a sad, horrible, and tragic day.
Let's focus for a little while on being sad, healing, and helping.
Politics can come later.
 
The firearm community and the NRA need to make our politicians focus on the root of this problem. That will be the nut behind the gun that goes off the deep end and kills and then commit suicide. The majority of the time these people come to the attention of others long before they go off on a killing rampage.

We need to infringe on the personal rights of the mentally ill to see they have severe restrictions on possessing firearms and even to the point of committing them and hopefully getting them help with their mental problems.

As a law enforcement officer I have had many dealings with our mental help instuitions and they are a sad joke at best. I can tell you horror stories after horror stories where they have failed due to poor preformance and someone died as the direct result.

I find it ironic that the anti gun crowd can get the average person to agree on infringing on the rights of law abiding gun owners, but do not dare talk about infringing on the rights of a mentally ill person that is allowed to walk among us.

Do not dare to talk about curtailing the 1st. ammendment rights of the entertainment community that wants to sell violent games to our youth where they become desensitived to violence and considering the shooting of people as nothing but fun and games. Even our own press shares guilt here on how they present the news and copycats crop up out of the woodwork, but don't you dare talk about curtailing their rights or making guidelines for them to follow.

RELH
 
I just had to turn the tv off,just can't believe this happened.I could say a lot of things and give my opinions but just not the time.Wish the media could do the same.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-12 AT 08:44AM (MST)[p]I'm sure they will, Eldorado. Just like Ford, GM, or Toyota would if a scumbag couldn't get a gun and decided to mow down a bunch of people at a bus stop or at an outdoor event. RELH hit the nail on the head about identifying and protecting society from walking time bombs.

My prayers are with the families that are in mourning and will have never have a chance to see the smiles and joy on their little angels' faces on Christmas morning because some a$$hole took their lives away.
 
If this isn't the tipping point, the next mass murder will be and that should be within a few weeks at the rate we're going. I hope like hell gun owners find voice somewhere other than the NRA or we're screwed.


http://news.yahoo.com/could-shooting-gun-control-tipping-point-140902422--politics.html



Bowhunt, if you don't like the facts dispute them with facts to the contrary. a retarded rant giving your opinion and racist bias isn't going to cut it. yes it's true Timmy, nations who aren't white christians can exist peacefully.





Stay thirsty my friends
 
At the small school I teach at we've had two different shootings although not in the school. This is over a 30+ year period. In both cases they killed one other person. In both cases they were recommended for psychological detainment with parents approval. They spent the minimum time in the state mental facility and were released. Neither was allowed back to school but I question their release as within 2 years both had committed murder.

I just wonder what percent of these senseless mass murderers can be traced back to people that are mentally unstable. I deal with the mental health services usually once a year from some incident that occurs, and I am seldom satisfied with the results. It is a lot of paperwork to fill out and seldom results in favorable results. Minimum time held then back to the same behavior.

No blame needed at this point for these families, just a sadness for their loss.
 
>This literally made me sick.
>Shed tears and prayed for
>the victims and families throughout
>my workout this morning.
>This violence will not stop
>until We The Sheeple get
>involved and take a stand.
> The best training the
>state ever sent me to
>was put on by Lt.
>Col. Dave Grossman. He
>warned that this would happen
>and continue to happen in
>this country as the majority
>of our population consists of
>sheep that cannot deal with
>or even comprehend violence and
>reality. The Sheepdogs can
>not protect the sheep as
>there are far too few
>Sheepdogs and far too many
>wolves running wild. The
>Sheepdogs hands are tied by
>rules and regulations that make
>them a reactionary force instead
>of a proactive/preventative one.
>We need to have local
>teams of trained volunteers consisting
>of civilians, LEO's and vets
>formed into Community Emergency Response
>Teams (CERT). Every school
>in this country should have
>one of these teams assigned
>to it. There should
>be no less than two
>of the team members on
>duty at the school anytime
>school is in. Sound
>crazy? If you say yes,
>well then I believe it
>is you that is crazy.
> This is a proven
>model that has been in
>effect for years in a
>country that is victimized by
>terrorists acts on a regular
>basis. I do realize
>this will most likely never
>come to be in the
>United States as the SHEEPLE
>will cry Baa!, having armed
>team members on campuses might
>intimidate or damage the developing
>brains of our children that
>would be exposed to the
>presence of the armed team
>members that are there to
>protect them. Yet these
>same SHEEPLE think nothing of
>letting these same children who's
>brains are still developing come
>home after school and spend
>hours playing violent, interactive video
>games where bonus points are
>given for "head shots" and
>killing "cops". The SHEEPLE
>of this country have no
>idea of the desensitizing effect
>this has on our children.
> The military and LE
>has known the benefit of
>utilizing training of this nature
>for many years and started
>utilizing it shortly after WWII
>by shooting at silhouette targets
>and 3D human targets instead
>of bullseye targets. This
>got the shooter accustomed to
>shooting another human. Since
>the computer generated/ interactive training
>age the military and LE
>agencies have used this type
>of interactive training extensively.
>The result has been a
>significant increase in hits vs
>shots taken. For most
>of us the thought of
>taking another human life is
>unthinkable, and it should be
>as that is how we
>are wired if we are
>normal. The viewing and
>playing of violent interactive games
>messes this wiring up.
>The human brain is not
>fully developed until we are
>in our twenties, so don't
>think that these "games" do
>not have a negative affect
>on our youth. For
>those who doubt what I
>say, please take the time
>to do a little research
>for yourself before you slam
>me. As far as
>gun control, thats a joke.
> Take every gun in
>this country, de-mill it and
>in a week anyone who
>wants one will have one.
> Drugs are illegal, hows
>that working? It's illegal
>to murder, steal, rape, etc...Hows
>that working. Our society
>has gone to crap.
>The government and media has
>forced God out of our
>lives as best it can,
>how's that working?
>
>
>Norkal
>
>"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES
>AHEAD!"


Amen, NORKAL,i like your balanced approach, unfortunately as you stated it'll never happen to the anti-'s we're extreme and they're extreme to us as well?
 
You've hit the nail on the head, I can't even watch the news anymore I'm so sick of them trying to find the cause of this. the cause is these people are batchit crazy. end of story.

Now how do you prevent it? I'm not sure you can. maybe you just do like homeland security and get paranoid it works part of the time.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
400retardrant,

"Retard Rant"
FACT: Violet Deaths, highest in Middle East, Africa.
But you do not call them murders ok, who made the "Retard Rant"

FACT: Links to families, and care for Mentally Ill, and stable economics, reduce violent killing.

It has NOTHING to do with Lack of Religion, you moron. Now in your last comment it is "White Atheist Nations" dropped Christian thing eh.

It looks to me like your Rants, have now earned you your new name:

440retardrant :)
 
This is simply the work of Saten. He exist and this is his way of putting fear into us. There is no other possible explaination for this kind of evil. This kind of behavior is not created by violent movies, video games or child abuse. This is an evil way greater then that. This is an evil that exist in many people that choose to follow evil.

God is great and will save us all if you choose to let him.


Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
The NRA has single-handedly set gun policy in this country for years.

Well, they haven't worked and the time has come to rethink these policies.

Eldorado
 
>The NRA has single-handedly set gun
>policy in this country for
>years.
>
>Well, they haven't worked and the
>time has come to rethink
>these policies.
>
>Eldorado
Has the Brady Bill worked?What is the body count in Chicago 400 this year? stockton ca. 70,I can go on and on.You can make this another 9/11 or you can arm a few teachers and make it harder for the mentally ill harder to pull these acts of violence off.
 
That is what the NRA is hoping the debate leads to. Arming more Americans to combat more gun violence.

When will it all end?

Eldorado
 
>That is what the NRA is
>hoping the debate leads to.
>Arming more Americans to combat
>more gun violence.
>
>When will it all end?
>
>Eldorado

End? That would be nice,not everybody has the same mindset,more people more nuts.
 
I used to think I wouldn't want the responsibility of being an armed teacher. I'm still not sure I do but at 40 minutes to the county sheriff and no highway patrol or town police I'm starting to realize someone might eventually have to. Easy targets with many people such as malls and schools are logical targets for these type of people.
 
Eldorko, spoken like a true bent wrist liberal. Which guns are you willing to give up on a ban, or are you not willing to admit you are for banning certain guns. What do you do when they get to your favorite class of guns? How are we going to stop the flood of illegal banned guns from coming in from Mexico to sell to criminals at very high prices. Heck we can not stop the illegal drugs or illegal wetbacks from comming in, guns will be easy.

Lets do like China, they banned all gun ownership for civilians about 50 years ago. They have experienced a rash of shool ground incidents in the past 2 years where children and teachers have been attacked. In fact they had one just recently where 22 children was attacked and one teacher. The weapon used WAS A KITCHEN KNIFE SINCE THEY DO NOT HAVE GUNS. YEP, JUST BAN THE GUNS AND THAT WILL CURE THE PROBLEM. You are a kool aid drinking idiot of the first order!!!!

RELH
 
As I see it, this increasingly common occurrence is an extremely difficult issue to address for numerous reasons.

First and foremost, the criminals who commit these horrific crimes are not of a right mind. So passing more laws, to regulate the criminally irrational, would not seem to have much benefit.

Yes there will be much heated debate about the need of more gun regulation, but at the end of the day, I see the bigger and more serious debate being about how do we deal with these irrational people deciding that the current end game of the day is to engage in a totally random mass murder.

I have no idea how we go about addressing this problem, but I believe that is where the real effort should be made. I am hopeful those who are experts in this area can provide helpful, (not politically driven) insight on how we can approach this ever growing problem.
 
440,
You are incorrect. hitler was a POS. He was not a Christian as he claimed. You truly need to do Your homework. I have.

Still praying for You!

Norkal


"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-12 AT 05:06PM (MST)[p]i pulled this off" Things liberals hate? FB page

Quote" If teachers were carrying guns, there wouldn't be school shootings here but in america many teachers are part of the liberal problem,. These sick cowards go where they know there will be defenseless people. Schools, Movie theaters. Since Israel armed their teachers in the 70's, school shootings are virtually non-existent. Now the evil people just strap on bombs over there and blow up people; so that tells me that evil will find a way to inflict its sick acts upon its targets when it desires.

When are we going to wake up in this country and change our views on how we are allowed to protect ourselves from sick people? Taking guns away from people and not allowing them to protect themselves is criminal. And if people think that banning guns will suddenly cure the problem, I would like to point out that drugs are illegal, but people can readily obtain them. I bet the parents of those dead kids sure wished the janitor, the principal, or a teacher were armed; they're kid may still be alive. And exactly what IS an assault weapon anyway? Anything can be considered an assault weapon. It takes human intervention to make an inanimate object become evil. People control, my friends is the answer; not gun control. ~ Mercury

4296israeli_school.jpg
 
Nimrod, Hitler was a christian unless catholics aren't christians. if you want to have some fun with this start another thread I'd enjoy it.

Bowhunt, I asked for facts, I saw none. your new name is Bowjob.

Fishbreath, if you're going to preach learn how to spell satan.


The NRA is a liability in cases like this, we need a rational alternative to stand with. if anyone knows of such a thing let us know I think there is more demand than most imagine.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
It will be interesting to see how the NRA responds to this latest massacre. More importantly, it will be interesting to see how Congress responds to the NRA. A lot is at stake for both sides.

Eldorado
 
>It will be interesting to see
>how the NRA responds to
>this latest massacre. More importantly,
>it will be interesting to
>see how Congress responds to
>the NRA. A lot is
>at stake for both sides.
>
>
>Eldorado

It would be interesting to see how you answer RELH's question in post 32...

horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
Some people should have learned something from the last election, what you want and what you get aren't always the same thing. gun laws are going to be the same lesson.

I say assult weapons and high cap clips will be the prime target for legislation, I think bans will be inacted. will it help? I doubt it, but what difference does that make. will they move to all semi autos after that? probably, but it will be a harder battle.

So RELH is saying if you don't protect all guns they'll take them all. doubtful that's true most americans support gun ownership but not assult weapons but I have no doubt that's what they'd like to do. those gun owners who want to keep all gun owners together for numbers had better take a different approach than RELH is taking or watch the lines form.

I don't give a rats azz about Rambo guns, but if you make a rational case for them and act like adults I'll stand with you. go Uncle Tard on me and you can go to hell my guns are safe as they've been at anytime in my life with the recent supreme court ruling.
Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-12 AT 09:08PM (MST)[p]RELH,

Your babble and hysteria no longer sells. Frightening the American people that more guns is the answer has been tried and has failed. Your ideological rigidity has made you blind and incapable of any flexibility to this horrible problem that only seems to get worse. More pragmatism and less dogma is needed more than ever.

Eldorado
 
"More pragmatism and less dogma is needed more then ever". Yes Eldorko you are right about that. The only problem is that you are the one that is spewing the dogma and still do not have the brass ones to admit you will go along and support the banning of so called "assault rifles" Boy, you must have one big yellow streak down your back, or is it shame since you are on a hunting forum.

Should they use the description of assault weapons that our state liberal democrats used under Gray Davis. That description included several models of hunting rifles such as the Remington 7400 and Browning BAR. Yea! you would support that as most sheep would.

Dude you talk about your guns being safe so you support banning of the "black rifles" and mags over ten rounds. Nice to know you are still a self centered greedy S.O.B.

As for me, I also do not own any so called assault rifles unless you count a Remington Model 760 pump action 30-06 as one. The rest of my rifles are lever, bolt actions. OOPHS, I forgot the Ruger 10-22 semi auto 22lr that I won in a pistol match in 1979 at the Scramento regions PPC match. It may get included in with the assault rifles.

Eldorko and Dude, when they come for your guns, do not count on the black rifle owners to support you, they will have given up by then after losing their rifles and feeling they had been stabbed in the back by gun owners as you two have shown.

RELH
 
400retardrant

You really are one of the stupidest people I have encountered.

Say it over 10 times and maybe it will be true.

My original post, yes I started this thread, meant to make us all feel for
the victims and families.

PLEASE DO NOT POST ON IT FURTHER.
 
Bowjob, blow it.

RELH if you think you can bully or scare moderate gun owners into supporting things they aren't set on you're going to lose.

Those kids were wasted by a Bushmaster AR-15, weapon developed to kill people and it exceeds at it. I cannot blame most people for asking why we need guns of this type .

That said in the hands of responsible people it's no worse than a '78 f-250 , so I see both sides. there are some people who would ban all firearms, and there are those who are willing to sacrifice 20 kids a day because they don't think they can exist with conventional sporting arms.

I don't have the answer and I know gun control won't work. on the other hand what we're doing isn't working and the people will demand change and they will get it . I can support some changes, within reason, I don't buy the give them an inch nonsense." let us never negotiate out of fear, but let us never fear to negotiate"


So the NRA is at a crossroads , if they choose to draw gunowners like myself back they have to tone down the rhetoric and throw a blanket on the rabid foamy mouth Bubba's who one associates with the NRA. problem is they risk losing most of you when they toss a blanket over you. there is our problem, and why I say we need an alternative to the NRA.

Stay thirsty my friends
 
you can't fix stooopid!! 440 you still get the point!! I doubt it!! FREELOADER!!

People that want to ban guns are the same people that would blame a knife, fork, and spoon for making people fat!

Hitler a Christian?? More stooooooopid!!


Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
See, you're the type of mouthbreather that drive people away from the NRA, it's your way or the hiway. I left 10 years ago so save it. by the way, there is no " O " in stupid, stupid. my spelling sucks but you guys make me feel like an english major.

Hitler was a christian, 100%. this isn't the place for this debate, start another thread and lets discuss it if think you're right.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
RELH has the rational viewpoint on this but I'm guessing the liberal ACLU won't let it happen. Medical records are protected.

The last few mass shootings have all been committed by individuals with some sort of mental disability / issues. It would seem prudent to approach this from that angle. They were going to increase criteria on background checks but the justice department decided against that. WHY?

Seems to me expanded background checks would be the way to go.

Then we have the one fact that never seems to be understood when things like this happen. PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO COMMITT A CRIME DON'T CARE ABOUT GUN LAWS!

The criminal element ALWAYS has weapons at their disposal and no matter how you want to try to argue the point they'll always have them because most are stolen in the first place.

Once you walk down this path and give up some guns they're only going to try to ban more. Stricter sentences for gun crimes may actually work but the ACLU thinks people deserve to live no matter how much terror and pain they inflict on humanity and we get to pay for their room and board. China has the right idea and it costs $.10. We spend millions to do it and have higher crime rates.

Then we have the issue of Alcohol related traffic accidents result in 40 times more accidents and 4-5 times more deaths than gun deaths. Texting results in 50 times more accidents. These are just as serious and inflict their harm on more households. Yet we can't stop them AND THEY EFFECT PEOPLE OF ALL AGES every single day.

Education and instilling better values in society can make a difference but we can't do that because it actually may make a difference but would violate our rights.

You don't need a gun to kill people a knife will do it quite nicely and be much more graphic in the process. Street gangs & Drugs account for a fairly high percentage of gun related deaths. People are afraid of any weapon and usually just freeze and let them do what they want to whomever they want as they stand there in disbelief. So disarming the public can actually increase crime rates when the criminal element realizes they always have the advantage.

What happened here is beyond tragic but laying down our gun rights is not the answer it's just going to open more doors to violence and more regulation in the future. Any thug thinking about committing a crime will always survey the situation and when he just sees sheep his appetite for lamb only gets stronger, because sheep are easy prey.
 
It's NOT GUN CONTROL that is is need it's mental health treatment. In most incidence you'll find that it is mental health that is a problem. In the last several incidents there were several people that knew that these people had mental health problems and were dangerous. But they choose to ignore the situation. So again I say it's not gun-control that would need it's mental health issues that is the problem. And that's what needs to be addressed. I really don't understand why such groups as the NRA and others have not tried to address it this problem in this way. Because this is the real problem it's not gun-control.
 
This sh#t needs to be taken care like starting MONDAY morning at every school we have National Guard why not that's what they are for,the hell with wind mills and solar panels for now.What the hell are the politicians waiting for.Sacramento CA. have police in some of their schools for years.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-16-12 AT 11:34AM (MST)[p]What an idiot!!!! LMFA!

Just because Hitler say's he is a Christian doesn't make it so...Just like you saying your smart? Get it now! Is that in terms you can understand. Freeloader! spellchecker!

The guns were registered to his mother!! As most crimes go with guns they were stolen. Fix that fudgepacker and you might get something done about gun crimes. Liberal idiot.

Debating with you is like dueling with a boy with no bullets.

Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
OK. Let's ban all assult type weapons and high capacity clips. There can't be more than 10 million of them in the US.

Everybody who owns one can leave it by the curb side for pick up.

There, we're done!

Eel
 
And along with that all you tax loving liberals leave twice as much money with your guns that you were taxed last year. All you people that think raising taxes is going to matter just do it anyway...Idiots. Kill two liberals with one moronic idea. Should make sense to fudgepack?




Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
I will try one concise thought on this an I'm done. You do realize a debate on the internet is like a regular debate name calling an illogical reasoning really convinces no one. In fact when debating someone in person the quickest way to determine their intellect is the quickness with which they result to name calling.

1. This has nothing to do with religion or lack of it in schools like Mike Huckabee continues to state he is as illogical as always.

2. The mental health system in this country is an absolute failure that is only getting worse people like this moron fall through the system continually. It needs to be discussed and changed from top to bottom.

3. Discussion is not giving in. Most people can't even tell you what an assault weapons is it changes every time I hear a talking head discuss it. I'm not sure the outcome would have been much different if he would have used the Glock and Sig especially if he would have multiple clips for each gun.

4. With gun ownership comes responsibility. Felons can't own guns and people with mental disorders shouldn't be allowed to own guns. I don't care if infringes on their rights or not.
a. With that thought if you own guns and don't take action to keep them secure you should be held responsible. The days of the old cabinet are over use a gun safe. In Namibia if you don't secure your guns appropriately they are confiscated.

5. Public Opinion will decide this right or wrong you can have a rational discussion with the moderates and possibly keep most of what we have or you can be bullheaded an lose much more.

Fish his mother knew she had an emotionally unstable son in her home, it was her responsibility to secure the guns. It is sad but she is culpable for the corresponding events when he stole her guns.
 
Fish do you even think before you type? Do you really think tax loving liberals would have guns, assault guns to boot. Do you really think we have liberals on this site?

I've got to quit reading some of these posts I think I'm losing IQ points every time I do.
 
Corn, By the way some of you post you certainly sound like liberals!! I happen to work with quite a few of them...All talk no action. Take from someone else to give to someone who doesn't deserve it or want to earn it. Don't be naive...



Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
I have several very LIBERAL friends that own firearms. We argue about many issues, our RIGHT to own firearms is not one of them. One of them states libs need guns to protect themselves from us "Rightwingers".

Norkal


"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD!"
 
The debate is not about gun ownership, find one poll that says americans don't support gun ownership.

The debate is what types of guns and maybe who should own them? I don't think fishbreath should own a BB gun, but it's not up to me. so who will decide how batchit is too batchit? and how will you prove it?

The 2nd amendment grants the right to keep and bear arms, it does not specify what kinds of arms. keeping in mind the founding fathers had muskets not street sweepers, I'd say the door is wide open for another ban on assult weapons and clips.

Decide how you want to play your hand, if you come off as harsh and irrational you're only going to make it easier for your opposition. forget if gun control will work or not who cares, if you think politics are driven by logic you know nothing about politics. that could explain your success rate.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
Somewhat true, but I don't think parents are out of line to ask for their kids to not be used for target practice at school.

I'm not sure it can be fixed, but I can't say they're crazy for trying.
















Stay thirsty my friends
 
This was a terrible,terrible thing. And hope that it never happens again. Our society is so out of whack and dysfunctional that it is becoming disgraceful.

Why has this become the flavor of the day?
Does the media induce these behaviors with their sensationaling of these events? I mean if they didnt recieve so much attention would it still be attractive to these whack-jobs?

Why didn't this happen in the 50's 60's 70's or even 80's? Sure there were a few, Austin comes to mind, but even so back then we didn't have near the 20,000 some odd gun laws we have today.

Mexico has strict gun laws and outlaw certain types and calibers...how's that working out?

The same day this happened there were 3,700 abortions in the US.
 
The question is why didn't this happpen in the 50's,60's or 70's. The reason was during those times we locked up nut cases in mental hospitals. That stopped due to feel good liberals who felt that was inmoral to take away their freedom.

Gentlemen, Dude has a very good point that I have to aggree with, even if I call him names and do not like his form of politics, he is right on this subject.

Since it has now been shown that the Bushmaster was used, we are going to see restrictions on those type of guns and magazines, no way around it as the majority of the citizens will support it in order to get their "Feel Good" we did something to stop the killings.

What really jerks my chain is that they will stop at that and not go further to get to the root of the problems. The anti gunners do not care about committing nut cases to mental hospitals, they want the guns and the guns only and our average citizen is too ignorant or do not care past the point of banning certain guns.

I hope that we can put up enough fight that will stop them from going to far and including some long term hunting rifles in their description of what is a "Assault Rifle".

You guys that own black rifles may be lucky if they ban future sales of them and make you register the ones you now own as they do full auto weapons. Of course their will be a "TAX" to pay to register your rifle and keep it. Most of the anti gun idiots will want outright seizure of all black rifles, I do not think they will get that far this time, but I could be wrong.

RELH
 
>
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>Nimrod, Hitler was a christian unless
>catholics aren't christians. if you
>want to have some fun
>with this start another thread
>I'd enjoy it.
>
>Bowhunt, I asked for facts, I
>saw none. your new
>name is Bowjob.
>
>Fishbreath, if you're going to preach
>learn how to spell satan.
>
>
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>The NRA is a liability in
>cases like this, we need
>a rational alternative to stand
>with. if anyone knows of
>such a thing let us
>know I think there is
>more demand than most imagine.
>
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>
>Stay thirsty my friends


dude you really got your history all mixed, there's a difference between corroborating with the German catholic church, and confessing to be catholic, notice I didn't call them Christians, they hated the Jews cause they said the jews killed Jesus, but the Romans nailed him to a cross. Interesting, you lefties are full of half truths...
 
Of all people who cares what Huckleberry says. where was god? he was too busy causing wars in the middle and hurricanes.


My guess is there will be just a high capacity clip ban and an assult weapons sales ban , there is support to go beyond that by voters but how would you ever enforce it.















Stay thirsty my friends
 
Yep, Huckabee nailed it!!! Perfectly said. Thanks Boskee.


Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
Some observations:

1) Where there that many assault rifles back in the 50's, 60's or 70's?

2) Is every person mentally ill deemed a suspect? How would you determine who among the thousands with mental illness poses enough of a risk to be removed from society? Fair enough someone under suspicion but the majority of these perpetrators seem to fall under the radar.

3) With cutbacks in mental health and law enforcement budgets, it would be extremely difficult to determine, track and house the growing numbers of mentally ill deemed a risk to commit a shooting (not including those already under suspicion).

4) Whether we like it or not we must begin to engage in a frank and intelligent discussion if the current gun policies are still relevant after 12/14. I'm not calling for the end of gun ownership or the elimination of the 2nd Amendment but for a rethink in our gun policies.

Eldorado
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 11:27AM (MST)[p]The first amendment isn't absolute so why is the second amendment?

If the NRA doesn't come to the table and engage in a discussion they risk being portrayed as being cold and extreme by the majority.

I own lots of gun, my kids and I have spent countless hours target shooting, shooting trap, hunting and my son just bought his first semi auto shotgun. I am pro gun but there has to be at the very least a symbol of our leaders doing something in response to a crazy person executing first graders. Blame society, blame our violent
The political fallout will go against gun owners if the NRA doesn't come to the table and engage in an adult discussion on this issue.

Nemont
 
I have no interest in assault rifles.

I have every interest in my right to bear arms.

This trajedy is the worst kind, it is perpetrated on the innocent.

Having said that I believe we are a huge society today, 311 million people in the U.S. Despite how the media and tv shows like 20/20 make it seem, the crime rate and the murder rate have been dropping for almost 30 years based on my research today(US Census). This means that our society overall is actually improving, not getting worse(though it doesn't feel that way today).

We aren't going to eliminate motor vehicles because people get killed in car accidents. For reference, people are killed by vehicles over double the rate people get murdered, and well over triple the rate people are murdered by guns. There are significantly more alcohol related(BAC over .08) deaths than gun related. If we stopped using motor vehicles our society would come to a halt. Same with eating things that cause cancer, heart attacks, etc. etc.

It's easy to say we should do "anything" to stop even one senseless loss of life, but that is not "reasonable". Cost alone is enough reason as we do have limited resources and at some point certain precautions or restrictions or limitations, are too costly and certain losses are simply unavoidable. Yes to many, like my own mother, this sounds callous, but is true.

This would be little consolation if this was one of my 3 sons. Yet as a parent I must understand there are certain hazards and I can not do more than teach my children. Society has to do the same, understand there are certain hazards and try and teach it's society.

The reality is it's simply unrealistic to think we can remove a quarter of a billion guns from U.S. households anyway. The bad guys will always have them. Frankly they are not that difficult to build. We certainly must remember the lessons of our founding fathers that we must have the Right to protect ourselves from a tyranny, like other countries have waged civil war these past few years for.

So, while I don't support every position of our primary gun rights lobbies and I think too often money is the motivation, we can't overreact to this tragedy by caving to solutions that won't fix the problem. We can't let politicians take the easy out, because the media won't focus on the facts and the politicians want to look good.

I mentioned I have no use for Assault Weapons. I also have no use for clips that hold over 3-4 rounds of ammo. I can live without these. If others had to live without these how many lives would that save? A hundred? A few hundred? Is it possible to even remove these items from society? These aren't hard to manufacture are they? Even facing criminal prosecution, would criminals be scared to have one? So would the law do anything but placate the uneducated and those like me who don't care if they don't exist. If it doesn't FIX the problem then why even go through the exercise.

We could probably do more good if we made habitual criminals, particularly violent criminals face a death penalty much easier. We could also "eliminate" all the mentally ill. Wow, that isn't going to happen. Nor should it. We will never have a cure for mental illness, we can hope to manage it better. Every criminal is still due his day in court in a just society too. The world isn't perfect and bad things happen even with the best of intentions.

Unfortuantely this type of violence is a problem I feel is unfixable, we can only hope to keep it contained. This particular tragedy is a reminder of what's important and the debate should be had and awareness should be raised. The most that is realistic is that we can see the statistics continue to improve and society will continue to get better, but there is no SOLUTION or vaccine.
 
I agree.

Just got done practicing a security lock down at the school I teach at. We're screwed old building many entry and exit points no law enforcement. I'm not sure what the solution is. I still believe part of the solution is keeping guns away from crazy people. I personally believe a gun vault should be mandatory. The guns on display days in the gun cabinet are over. This won't solve all shootings but it would have solved this one if this deranged individual wouldn't have known the combination to the vault.

I'm a lifetime member of the NRA but I sent them an e-mail today encouraging them to be thoughtful on their response to the new legislation that will come soon. That doesn't mean give in to everything but some things will need to be discussed if not the NRA will go the way of the Republican party in public opinion.
 
Wow, four rational posts in a row that has to be a record.

BPK, I agree with you and you put it very well. the problem is something will have to give, look at the polls this isn't our choice to make. a clip ban is a done deal, an assult weapons ban maybe, but I think it will only be for new sales.

So what should the NRA do? in my opinion since the clip ban is as good as done why not use this as a chance to come off as sensitive to gun violence and negotiate one rather than die fighting it? then give push back to the coming assult weapons ban but with more respect by the public due to your reasonable approach to the clip ban. now there will be those on here soon who say give nothing fight to the death, that's one angle, I'll watch you lose if you'd rather fall on your sword but I think some of us are smarter than that.













Stay thirsty my friends
 
That's a pretty fine post BPK. We're never going to rid the world of the forces of evil no matter how hard we try. Airplanes, cars, bombs, box cutters, knives, pistols, shotguns, rifles, assault rifles, gas, gasoline, diesel fuel, arson, pipes, axes, shovels, water, ropes, pillow cases, excessive debts, bad relationships, jealousy, love, power, money, greed, sex, rape, hatred and mental instability, or chance of being ID'd committing a crime all have led to murder and in many cases mass murder. The assault rifle has led to fewer of these violent deaths than any weapon or emotion listed above, except in war.

Do any of us really think taking one of the alternatives away will matter when they have so many other choices? Evil will always find a way to commit murder, history has proven that and no matter how vigilant we are, it's going to happen. BPK hit the nail on the head, it's unfixable, the best we can do is to contain it by educating our children and society and hope that the set of values we build in will prevail.
 
If you want irrational take a look at the general forum some people don't get it. They sound batchit crazy and they will eventually cost all rational gun owners. I personally think extended clips and new sales of assault weapons are done in 6 months

I hope the NRA doesn't screw this up but they probably will.
 
I rarely if ever waste my time here anymore because I grew tired of argueing with complete morons who wouldn't change their ideology no matter what the issue was but I decided to waste a few keystrokes today because I feel it is important to discuss.

The Second Amendment was put in place by the founders to give the people recourse against the government overstepping its boundaries. It was meant as a deterrent to tyranny and to give people a means to protect themselves and their property. It was not put in place so that people would be guaranteed an opportunity to hunt so why should people then be limited to only owning sporting arms and small cap handguns?

If 20 kids would have been killed riding in a bus on their way to school by a lunatic who strapped a bomb underneath it or by a lunatic who T boned the bus with a semi truck, we wouldn't even be having this discussion today. Nobody would be calling for the banning of bomb making materials or Semi trucks either. Suppose a whack job ran through a school ground during recess with a knife and stabbed 100 kids, would we be outlawing knives?

Nobody knows what threats they may ever encounter and I for one would like to know that my assault rifle is at the ready with plenty of clip capacity to protect my family if the need arises. The world is a very unstable place and while it seems highly unlikely that one would ever need to shoot enough times to warrant a high cap clip, if push came to shove in a survival situation, you could very well be glad as hell that you owned one.

It's too easy to jump to the conclusions that we need more restrictions on guns but why not address the problem instead of pointing fingers at the tool used by the animal to kill? The problem is that mentally ill people have access to guns, cars, knives and bomb making materials. If a lunatic wants to off a bunch of people but he doesn't have guns, he will do it another way, PERIOD! The challenge for us is that we have to be able to identify and treat these people before something crazy happens. In the recent mass shooting events (Connecticut, The Dark Knight, Gabby Giffords, etc.) the perps were well known to have some form of mental instability or disorder. How many of them were being treated for this?

In my opinion, if ANYONE, including a child, is diagnosed with some form of mental disorder, they should immediately be entered into the DOJ database as not allowed to own firearms until they have been treated and upon full examination by professionals exhibit no more symptoms of said disorder. For some people, this could be a lifetime ban of owning firearms, and others with less severe behavioral problems would most likely outgrow their disorder and become normally functioning individuals. This would solve the problem of whackos being able to purchase guns but would it stop them from obtaining them? NOPE! The penalties for providing a weapon to someone who is not lawfully able to possess one needs to be VERY harsh. I'm talking like ten years in prison if the gun isn't involved in a crime and 25 years to life if it is. Hell, you might even then have criminals doing their own background checks on the weapons they are selling to other criminals.

We need to not let these people enjoy the priviledge of driving if they are diagnosed with a mental disorder unless they voluntarily submit to treatment and are cleared by a medical professional to drive.

The point is that there are two constants in all of these incidents. First, they all used guns and second they all had some form of mental problem. The crazy dude in China used a knife however but the one constant that remained was that he was f**king crazy. No sane person does these things.

Our politicians would be better serving the people by laying off the topic of guns and start addressing how to deal with people who are mentally unstable. If the NRA was smart, they would be screaming at the politicians to adress mental illness in America. Look at the high profile kidnappings that occur here too. Those people are raging lunatics as well. Hell, Elizabeth Smart got kidnapped by Jesus remember? The problem is the illness not how many bullets a gun can hold. Nobody goes out and buys a gun and then says wow this gun holds 30 bullets, I think I'll go kill 30 people today, unless you're a completely insane freak.

Well, that's my rant. I won't argue with idiots so Eldorado don't waste your busy day treating H5N1 patients by responding to my logic and common sense.
 
Blame the NRA. Blame the magazine capacity. Blame the weapon.


You folks really need to think before you go off.

Your President has given away citizenship. He has given weapons away to the drug cartels. He has shown he will do anything to get what he wants. He will use any situation to his advantage no matter who get's in the way.

And you think the answer is to make more folks criminals?

I live in California, we have a limit on capacity. I own no asault weapons.

I heard it on the news that the killer in conneticut broke more than 40 laws in that state.
Do you really think making criminals out of law abiding folks will have any effect on those who kill?

The answer is no. We are knee deep in more laws in my state, to the point that near everyone is a criminal. Let's just top it off that we are letting actual convicted criminals out of our jails left and right. So the answer is no.
 
It didn't sound like a rant to me it sounded like well thought out rational ideas. I agree with most of it but I don't think it's going to go down like that. The political wheels of both sides are already turning and what is coming will be nonpartisan.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 07:47PM (MST)[p]CAforkedhorn and others find themselves in the difficult situation of having to defend failed policies.

Current gun policies have failed and need to be rethought.

Eldorado
 
Like I said, if you want to be rational and work with moderate gun owners you can gain support in numbers. if you want to try to shame those who don't care about 100 round drums and assult weapons have fun .


The comparison between a bus wreck and gun killings is stupid. when you get in a bus you know there is a risk but you've done everything you can to minimize it. when your kid gets to class you should'nt have to accept there is a minimal chance they'll get .223 rounds to the head. we've tried nothing, and it hasn't worked , you say that's good enough. good luck with a mental check system, unless you're dumb enough to think only legally bought guns kill. make up your mind, will crooks get guns or not?

Tough laws mean nothing in cases like this, you can't scare a kamikaze. they are going there to die.


I don't think any form of gun control will work, but I understand why prople think hi cap clips and assult weapons are not needed by citizens. because they're not.









Stay thirsty my friends
 
The NRA is most likely respecting & mourning with the families since some folks that were victims probably had family members that belong to the NRA. What's the matter Eldorado is that concept to hard for you to imagine since you edited out Where's the NRA from your post.

Contrary to what a panty waisted liberal like you believes, gun owners are compassionate and caring folks. The NRA will come forward when the times right not taking advantage of a situation like some politicos are doing.

This isn't a time for politics it's a time for healing yet notice how all those left wing liberals are jumping on the opportunity to get their punches in, like you Eldorado even your edit can't save you. You're a classless act truly capable of wearing that liberal tag, that fits you so well.
 
Half the stories on the news are about gun control, I don't think the MM forum has to be silent on the issue.


The NRA is working on new fundraiser programs and their talking points as we speak , you know that. they're silent only because they know there is nothing they can say right now that won't make it worse. they're correct.


The NRA bookface and twitter are shut down, why would that be? might it be because they don't want Bubba being quoted? yeah that might be.

Lets hope the NRA comes out of this with a soft tone and plays it smart.








Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-17-12 AT 10:18PM (MST)[p]Attacking me won't change the fact that changes need to be made to policies that have failed and will continue to fail. The NRA has been in the forefront in setting gun policies for years and it's time that these policies be called into question. The reasons for their silence is debatable but what is certain is that the status quo can no longer continue and the NRA must change and lead this change if it is to be a credible and effective voice for gun owners. I will continue to challenge the NRA and no amount of personal attacks will stop me from offering my opinions.

Eldorado
 
Eldorko, why don't you grow a pair and state once for all what you want that you consider to be "sensible" gun laws.
You have been evading the answer long enough. Then we can judge if you are being sensible about future laws we need.

RELH
 
Eldorado you should have stuck to posting titty pics on the campfire...

horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
Eldorado they will not stop with the ban on clips and assult weapons,all the will say do you really need a 300 rum ,300 weatherby mag and that long range scope to hunt with?Like I said before Sacramento Ca. has police on some of it's school grounds,I don't want to look at the President crying and scolding the American people.We still use planes to travel with we just have better screening and law enforcement.
 
Eldorko has a couple boobs with him on this forum!!!


Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!
 
What's the matter Eldorado? Did you really think you posting that up wasn't going to get a negative reaction? Yet you want to attack our right's but can't seem to fathom why we want to defend them. Maybe you need to see if you can figure out why our founding fathers put that right into our constitution.
 
Makes me want to puke listening to Corey Booker talk about eliminating the ability of individuals to sell firearms. He said the states that refuse to outlaw private sales should lose all federal funds. Facism at it's best there. Not one word about the US Constitution. Just a bunch of gun grabbing politicians taking advantage of dead children IMO. China is scolding America for not taking guns away. Gun sales are skyrocketing so millions more will be in homes throughout the country. CT has the 4th toughest gun laws in the country and they did not work. China and the progressives can KMA. I will trust the SC to settle this one as usual.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-12 AT 09:40AM (MST)[p]Yes the old slippery slope argument, let them take our grenade launchers and the next thing they'll want is our Rambo guns.

I can see many of you learned from the last election how to divide your base and win. one thing about it, when we do hear from the NRA again they're going to bleed you for funds so bad you won't be able to afford your internet access bill .

I expected renewed calls for gun control but nothing like this, it's a fire growing by the hour. something at least as much as the '94 ban is a done deal.


I've never been interested in black rifles, I feel Zumbo nailed it in the article all the Bubbas bashed him over. but maybe I don't need to compensate for a small pee pee, or buy a gun that gives me my man card because I don't feel like one. I bet the antis have a blast with this stupid ad campaign, it's telling of part of our gun culture.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/emma-...un-violence-newtown-adam-lanza_b_2317924.html










Stay thirsty my friends
 
So 440 just how many jobs do you think this takes with it? The gun companies build what sells just like you don't grow crabgrass for a living. Be careful what you wish for 440 because there's guys talking up eliminating all guns with more than 3 round capacity's. That's pistols, revolvers, rifles, lever actions, shotguns, so while you're cheering in your glee it only shows how ignorant you really are. This could be their defining moment and you know it, yet you think it's righteous because you think it won't effect you.

The NRA is one of the reasons you have what you own today but you can't seem to fathom that because you didn't see anything pass that opposed it. Clinton wanted to serialize all ammunition and prohibit reloading equipment & components, types of scopes, and tax all ammo sales in addition to restricting & eliminating many types of guns. They made Bill Ruger cave so don't think you're safe in your world. England collected several gun types and other countries have done the same. Still think the NRA isn't worth supporting?

Why a limp wristed squat pizzin liberal like you wouldn't be above the law would they? That doesn't go well with your feather boa, pink tights, glitter, bone pumps and all that inequality stuff you like to throw, but it still smells like your typical BS. By the way will banning guns devalue any of your investments? Oops probably got your attention with that one? Be careful what you wish for because the reality is they just don't want the black ones that would be discrimination.
 
Yeah it makes jobs when you have kids to bury too, I see your point.

The NRA has never lost? better check that out. I don't recall them endorsing the '94 ban do you?

What part of I don't agree but I understand don't you get? I don't agree bans are going to fix it but I understand why people are fed up. screaming at me isn't going to change what's on the horizon.


People with your attitude are why the NRA shut down their social media so nobody can read it, that should tell you something but I doubt you're going to get it.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-12 AT 01:07PM (MST)[p]The NRA is not the only reason we still have guns. Only the NRA wants you to believe that because of what it means for their fund raising.

I think the NRA isn't worth supporting and I tell them every time they call that I won't write them a check again until they return to their purpose of only defending the 2nd Amendment. Right now they are into the weeds because gun manufacturers call the shots, not the NRA members.

Just because somebody says we need to have an adult discussion about guns in our society and perhaps a policy to try and keep them out of the hands of crazy people doesn't mean they want to ban every gun in the country, Only the NRA says that because they have to use fear to drive the morons into believing the only thing standing between us and our guns is the NRA. Forget the Heller Case, forget 236 years of our Constitution, forget that there are not 60 Senators that would stand up for an outright ban or a Republican controlled house that won't pass anything that the NRA doesn't bless.

The NRA is going to raise more money off the bodies of these 27 people then they ever did from hunters who wanted to keep their guns. If that is the kind of organization you want to support fine we still live in America but I choose to spend my money on something else.

Fear is the main thing being sold by the NRA and it sounds like the Koolaid drinkers can't get enough of it. Until people learn that the Majority in this country supports the 2nd amendment but that all amendments in the bill of rights are not absolute then you will be on the losing side of this issue.

I predict there will not be enough votes in the House to pass a ban on "assault rifles". There will be enough blood in the streets to get some kind of limits on high cap magazines and the killing will continue but thank god the NRA could make money off the corpses of 5 and 6 year olds who did nothing but go to school.

Nemont
 
Excatly how I feel on the issue.

I won't bet a ban on assult weapons will happen real soon but it will happen. support is at a 10 year high which you'd expect but I don't think it's going away next week like in the past.

Is the political will there for it? I don't know but considering the NRA had by far the worst return on their dollar in the last election of any major group I can see where it could be. politicians will lose their fear as they see the NRA has no teeth.

We know where the far right and far left stand now we're going to find out where the majority stand . I think that's for a clip and assult weapon ban but no more than that.







Stay thirsty my friends
 
I am with you on the NRA. I never supported them and put them right up there with AARP and other special interest groups that try to manipulate people. How about the Constitution and letting it go at that. Obama and the politicians can do what they want but the SC will decide if it is constitutional.
 
You really are a damn fool aren't you. You're opening statement supports that quite well. You don't like black rifles you made your point but what you fail to understand is: it has been the main shooting platform of all military services and law enforcement entities over the last 30- 40 years in long guns. How many hunters have served and used this platform over the last 3-4 decades and are very comfortable with it in the field today? It's one of the better selling weapons so I think it supports it's popularity, contrary to your approval.

Where we grew up shooting different actions, these guys cut their teeth on these and were trained to use them. For many of them it was the first firearm they ever used and they got trained on how to use it and learned it's function and how it ticked. Many actually prefer to use them and they shoot quite well and many designs will shoot as well as our bolt guns that's why special forces utilizes them so much in addition to their firepower advantage. Yes bolt guns have an advantage but they have disadvantages too. But one system supports the other quite well.

People with my attitude aren't the issue it's people like you that will stop at nothing to antagonize people on this website your fellow sportsmen slinging your drivel about why they own an AR. I understand you're backhanded support quite well that must go hand in hand with your reasoning why they're going to be a bigger issue than they realized. The groundswell of support against them.

You think the NRA does nothing yet don't really understand what they do, Kind of like HSUS huh. They promote firearms safety and help set up ranges in many parts of the country and help fund projects to introduce people to firearms. They have many folks that volunteer their time administering firearms safety training for owners of all ages. They volunteer to help with operational overhead on many ranges across the nation. They lobby and fight to maintain our second amendment rights no matter what you think you know and they're actively involved staying on top of legislation that may have a negative impact on our sport.

The have helped fund prohunting legislation in many states and actually are an information conduit to help us stay informed. Yes they work with manufacturers but the guns we built and donated went to sportsmen and woman not NRA employees. They also used raffle monies to help fund the Whittington Center and very nice shooting facility and Hunting preserve. The NRA has also helped fund law enforcement agency's projects in their history in addition to other projects of benefit to sportsmen. They helped pay or paid for guns donated to law enforcement agencies that needed them for public protection. Kind of hard to fault them for that, even for you.

When you want to lecture somebody about the NRA I'd suggest you don't pick on a guy that actually knows what they do and has been involved with them for over 40 years. I didn't see you helping train those kids and garnering support for hunting causes they helped to fund, and putting signs in the ground to help influence voters to support protective hunting legislation.

They aren't perfect but no organization is, and while I like many of you didn't approve of everything they've done I kept the bigger picture in focus and saw what they did, in Washington and other areas where sportsmen really have little to no representation and an individual was powerless against the political machine. They gave us a block of votes & a presence that has made our voice heard and put the effort and money to use to make sure politicians are influenced enough to pay attention to what we want. It's not just about guns boys they've help fund many issues to support hunting over the years. They spent $500,000 in Az. a couple of years ago for just that reason. We lost to the anti's but they were there protecting your right's.
 
Since the '94 ban wasn't tested by the supreme court we don't know, but the fact it wasn't means some people didn't want an answer . they've already said we have the right to keep and bear arms, that's a done deal.

We can't have sawed off shotguns, is it impossible to think we can't have assult weapons? Scalia being the most conservative justice left the door open, you can guess where the more liberal justices will fall. I say if the SC hears it they will say bans are constitutional on some types of weapons.


http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...ear-arms-is-not-unlimited/UPI-80201355648700/









Stay thirsty my friends
 

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