House Bill 002: Regulation of Hunting Methods

1924 was a long time ago, LOTS of laws have been changed since then.
I'm saying if the Govt can charge grazing fees for ranchers to run cows on Govt land, JUST maybe they(Govt) can start charging for STATE OWNED animals that graze on Govt land. NOT saying that will happen but now days a lot of things happen that you didn't think could happen 25-50 years ago.
Funny how the state of Wyoming can discriminate against NR tag holders, but not hikers,fisherman,bird wtachers,etc. So they are singling out a certain group people to discriminate aginst.
BUT if I discriminate against anyone when NOT hiring them I will in up in trouble with the law.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
> BUT if I discriminate against
>anyone when NOT hiring them
>I will in up in
>trouble with the law.
>
Not true. They would need to be in a protected class.

NR hunters, birdwatchers, hikers and fishermen are not protected classes.
 
Buzz: I think you're premature in mentioning about the bill's demise. :) HB 2 passed out of Travel & Rec committee today... Headed to Senate Floor...

The bill prohibits the sale of information by the use of a GPS for location & identification information. So, if Founder (or anyone) simply uses a 1:24K or larger scale map and circles the spot, it is not a "violation" since a GPS wasn't utilized? It should just state that the sale of the location of a specific game animal is prohibited and refine the statute in G&F regulation if necessary.

I understand that the intent is to give rule making authority to the Commission. However, the Commission cannot make rules that contradicts statute.
 
Never thought about this issue so can't comment, but as a Wyo attorney, I cringe at the drafting of subsection (c). You could drive a truck through that thing. Seems like subsection (c) was included to make a representative or constituent feel better rather than trying to accomplish anything.

Why couldn't someone sell maps with dots on them, with a follow up phone call after the map arrived?

Also, seems the intent of the bill is to ban the use of certain modern technologies for hunting purposes, not ban selling information. At least that would be my argument if I had to defend it.
 
The commission can make regulations that are more stringent than statute, but not the other way around.
 
Liberal Democrats..... the Democrats create a crisis and make one feel horrible about supporting or agreeing with it. They do it as a strategy to force public opinion and that is exactly what you two are doing.

Buzz mentioned the bill died? Hallelujah

I've accused you two on here because I hate liberals!!

You have attract me and accused me of impressing Brian, (whatever) that I'm some kind of unethical hunter, unintelligent, not a good hunter, you even challenged me to show up at your randevue and bring my heads and freezer full of meet? Wow, are we a little insecure here or what?

Am I supposed to whorship you and all the BHA board of directors for their big trophies they have hanging on their walls Jims?

I got under your skin and the true colors shined through!

I never asked you two to be a crusader for me, I'm my own man. I don't need the likes of you and every other liberal Democrate to put forth more legislation or whisper in people?s ears to do it for me! I don't need you two to be forwarded thinkers and stop tech from entering the hunting industry. If the state game managers aren't smart enough with all their biology and wildlife management degrees to figure all this stuff out then fire their a$$ and hire people who are. But we don't need two crusader to fix a system that isn't even broken.

I hate liberal Democrats! Got it? And don't get on here and try and tell me you aren't!

You say you and buzz didn't have anything to do with this bill? Bull chit! You honestly expect us to believe that?

As for BHA, the day will come when the founders of that org take a stance on something you won't like and it will be interesting to see what you do. They are using hunters to achieve their liberal activism agenda and when they do they will fry you and toss you out. Just wait!
 
One more thing, I just spent the last 7 hours skiing my a$$ off in 2ft of pow pow because we all know that clement change is REAL? and is going to end us all in 12 years. It exists like unethical hunter broomer does. Give me a break!
 
Depends on what you mean by more stringent. The regulations cannot change the statute. In this case, if the statute says data collected by GPS, the regulations cannot say GPS and Map. The statute needs to be more broad and refined by regulations.
 
Didn't the state of Wyoming ban the use of scouting from a plane after August 1st? They must feel it gives the animals plenty of time to move to a new location.

If they completely banned scouting packages and didn't at least make them legal until the end of July it seems like a double standard also.

Just another thought
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-19 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]Hey broomer, take a picture of your cheerleader uniform. Does it have a #1 on it with Founder on the back.

The hand that feeds you. Now that's funny.
 
>Gee Brian, I wonder who said
>this?
>
>Different I guess, when its not
>your ox getting gored?
>
>I mean, what's the difference between
>flying to locate a big
>buck VS buying information from
>you?
>
>Where's your concern about your scouting
>packages increasing success and reducing
>opportunity and "give the game
>a better chance at survival"?
>
>
>You appear to have no problem
>pushing what's fair to the
>game when it doesn't impact
>your bottom line...but whimper uncontrollably
>when it does.
>
>IMO, you either care about fair
>chase and the game or
>you don't...pretty obvious your caring
>and fair chase values end
>where your pocket book begins.
>
>
>"I had the plane buzz over
>me last year in Wyoming.
>I don't think it's fair
>to the game, but not
>much different than shooting them
>at 800 yards or rifle
>hunting during the rut. It's
>just unfortunate the way things
>go. I understand an outfitter
>trying to stay in business
>doing everything he can within
>the law to be as
>successful as possible. That's my
>perspective as a business owner.
>
>However, as a hunter, I think
>it's crappy to fly an
>airplane to scout. I was
>sitting on that ridge last
>year in Wyoming after having
>packed in several miles when
>the plane buzzed over me.
>I could see the dude
>sitting in the backseat with
>big bino's and it disgusted
>me.
>Could you imagine if flying cost
>nothing? There wouldn't be any
>big deer in western Wyoming
>because huge numbers of people
>would fly to scout. None
>of those bucks would be
>able to slip through the
>cracks.
>Back to what I've said before,
>sportsmen are going to have
>to find a way to
>give the game a better
>chance at survival or tags
>will continue to decrease as
>success increases."


Wow! The hypocrisy is exposed. If someone is flying to locate bucks and essentially sell their location is bad, isnt someone hiking to locate bucks and selling their location bad as well?
 
>Back on the First Amendment debate,
>the only chance a state
>has of winning the right
>to take away my First
>Amendment rights, is if they
>argue that it's of significant
>government interest.
>I believe that is going to
>be a tough argument when
>they still allow thousands of
>guides and outfitters to provide
>their information as part of
>their hunting package as I
>do as part of my
>reports.
>How do you argue that one
>dude from Utah is causing
>a significant impact, while the
>thousands of guides and outfitters
>are not? That'll be a
>tough one to swing I
>think. It's virtually impossible for
>states to take away constitutional
>rights as it is, never
>mind trying to take them
>away from a handful of
>people but still allowing thousands
>of others to speak freely
>about the exact same thing.
>
>I really think it'll be easy
>to find a civil rights
>attorney to take this one,
>and at no charge. I
>think the state would easily
>lose.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Your 1st amendment is not being infringed if a law passes limiting your ability to sell wildlife location information. If you are so sure of your stance...why wait on this law...get that free civil rights attorney to fight aircraft and drone laws. Several states have laws specifically prohibiting pilots or others in aircraft from communicating game locations to hunters on the ground. These laws have been on the books for decades. How can this be? How come there have been no legal challenges? Why have hunters tolerated this oppressive infringement on their constitutional rights? Where is the ACLU? Oh thats right...its not an infringement on the first amendment.

You have a right to fight this proposed law and call out any hypocrisy or disparity between guides and what you do...you can make arguments about the service you provide being a benefit to hunters and the public...but for crying out loud - please stop this asinine suggestion that such regulation is an infringement on your 1st amendment...it is not.
 
I'm curious buzz, mule, jm

Do you feel this was aimed at what Founder does presently, or is it with an eye for what's next?

I don't like the practice. But I don't like guides on public land(not sure why graders, miners, loggers get charged for their consumption but guides don't), either. I feel founder is simply the tip of the spear. I asked him in the Montana discussion where he would draw the line, he didn't answer. Id be curious to know. Seems he's not a fan of planes.

Props to Wyoming for being concerned. We in Utah are busy selling off to the highest bidder, expo season is here.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-19 AT 11:06PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-05-19 AT 10:51?PM (MST)

>>Back on the First Amendment debate,
>>the only chance a state
>>has of winning the right
>>to take away my First
>>Amendment rights, is if they
>>argue that it's of significant
>>government interest.
>>I believe that is going to
>>be a tough argument when
>>they still allow thousands of
>>guides and outfitters to provide
>>their information as part of
>>their hunting package as I
>>do as part of my
>>reports.
>>How do you argue that one
>>dude from Utah is causing
>>a significant impact, while the
>>thousands of guides and outfitters
>>are not? That'll be a
>>tough one to swing I
>>think. It's virtually impossible for
>>states to take away constitutional
>>rights as it is, never
>>mind trying to take them
>>away from a handful of
>>people but still allowing thousands
>>of others to speak freely
>>about the exact same thing.
>>
>>I really think it'll be easy
>>to find a civil rights
>>attorney to take this one,
>>and at no charge. I
>>think the state would easily
>>lose.
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>@mm_founder on Instagram
>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>on Facebook!
>
>Your 1st amendment is not being
>infringed if a law passes
>limiting your ability to sell
>wildlife location information. If
>you are so sure of
>your stance...why wait on this
>law...get that free civil rights
>attorney to fight aircraft and
>drone laws. Several states have
>laws specifically prohibiting pilots or
>others in aircraft from communicating
>game locations to hunters on
>the ground. These laws
>have been on the books
>for decades. How can
>this be? How come
>there have been no legal
>challenges? Why have hunters
>tolerated this oppressive infringement on
>their constitutional rights? Where
>is the ACLU? Oh
>thats right...its not an infringement
>on the first amendment.
>
>You have a right to fight
>this proposed law and call
>out any hypocrisy or disparity
>between guides and what you
>do...you can make arguments about
>the service you provide being
>a benefit to hunters and
>the public...but for crying out
>loud - please stop this
>asinine suggestion that such regulation
>is an infringement on your
>1st amendment...it is not.


I think it is. Maybe I'm wrong. We'll find out. Maybe a civil rights attorney will laugh me out the door. ??? Either way, I'm fine. No biggie. I just have my opinion. I've been wrong before.
Just because you say it isn't, is meaningless, because I don't think you know either.

If nothing else, it?ll be fun and educational and entertaining.

I'll tell you what, if the civil rights attorney laughs me out of the office with a foot in my butt, I'll let you here on the site and you can laugh and poke fun. Ok?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>I'm curious buzz, mule, jm
>
>Do you feel this was aimed
>at what Founder does presently,
>or is it with an
>eye for what's next?
>

The rule to ban selling GPS coordinates was/is directed specifically at Founder's practice, but not exclusive to him. When he started selling the packages, the $hit hit the fan in Wyoming. No one involved even knew about PreHunt until I pointed it out in a discussion roundtable last year about legislation and the bill that eventually failed.
 
(C) Persons selling on the internet for remuneration the location and identification information of an individual big game animal located using a GPS device.

By the wording of this document Founder would still be free to sell maps, video, and other information that would pin-point locations of bucks?

How many game cameras do guides, outfitters, and hunters have set up on waterholes, wallows, rutting grounds, etc. Game camera photos are commonly used by guides and outfitters to sell their hunts on the internet to clients! I'm certain there are GPS coordinates associated with each picture? Should game cameras be outlawed?

Where is the line drawn...what is legal/ethical and what is not? If this sort of thing continues Wyo is certainly going to have a long list of illegal items in the regulations. I can understand some of this (drones, airplanes, chuteplanes, etc.) but there comes a point where things can get a little out of hand?
 
I really have no problem giving some stuff up to reduce success rates and increase opportunity, but things need to be fair for all. I don't think it's right to call something a violation of fair chase principles if one group does it, but it's not for another group.

Like I said, this is no different from taking away any of the other ?tools? we all use. If they were outlawing the use of rifle scopes (claiming all who use them are unethical) for everyone EXCEPT outfitter clients, that would be a bunch of crap too.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>I really have no problem giving
>some stuff up to reduce
>success rates and increase opportunity,
>but things need to be
>fair for all. I don't
>think it's right to call
>something a violation of fair
>chase principles if one group
>does it, but it's not
>for another group.
>
>Like I said, this is no
>different from taking away any
>of the other ?tools? we
>all use. If they were
>outlawing the use of rifle
>scopes (claiming all who use
>them are unethical) for everyone
>EXCEPT outfitter clients, that would
>be a bunch of crap
>too.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Brian,
Maybe you know something we all don't, but I'm curious to see where this current legislation exempts outfitters from selling GPS coordinates of game animals. As I read it, there are no exemptions.
 
>(C) Persons selling on the internet
>for remuneration the location and
>identification information of an individual
>big game animal located using
>a GPS device.
>
>By the wording of this document
>Founder would still be free
>to sell maps, video, and
>other information that would pin-point
>locations of bucks?
>
>How many game cameras do guides,
>outfitters, and hunters have set
>up on waterholes, wallows, rutting
>grounds, etc. Game camera
>photos are commonly used by
>guides and outfitters to sell
>their hunts on the internet
>to clients! I'm certain
>there are GPS coordinates associated
>with each picture? Should
>game cameras be outlawed?
>
>Where is the line drawn...what is
>legal/ethical and what is not?
> If this sort of
>thing continues Wyo is certainly
>going to have a long
>list of illegal items in
>the regulations. I can
>understand some of this (drones,
>airplanes, chuteplanes, etc.) but there
>comes a point where things
>can get a little out
>of hand?

The Senate added an amendment which deleted the "on the internet" wording, making it illegal to sell coordinates for any matter of method. Its passed the senate committee and has moved to general file.
 
>>I really have no problem giving
>>some stuff up to reduce
>>success rates and increase opportunity,
>>but things need to be
>>fair for all. I don't
>>think it's right to call
>>something a violation of fair
>>chase principles if one group
>>does it, but it's not
>>for another group.
>>
>>Like I said, this is no
>>different from taking away any
>>of the other ?tools? we
>>all use. If they were
>>outlawing the use of rifle
>>scopes (claiming all who use
>>them are unethical) for everyone
>>EXCEPT outfitter clients, that would
>>be a bunch of crap
>>too.
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>@mm_founder on Instagram
>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>on Facebook!
>
>Brian,
>Maybe you know something we all
>don't, but I'm curious to
>see where this current legislation
>exempts outfitters from selling GPS
>coordinates of game animals. As
>I read it, there are
>no exemptions.


Well, if that's as far as it all goes, just selling GPS coordinates, then OK, pass it. I've never sold or provided anyone with a GPS coordinates, so no worries.
I would just think the final rule will encompass every means of me showing someone where they might find a buck. If that's where it goes, then outfitters are exempt, because as part of their service they can take the hunter to the location, therefore providing them with the information I would be outlawed from providing.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Isn't the issue really whether or not an individual selling GPS coordinates is acting as a "guide" or "outfitter"...instead of the "fair chase" question...Outfitters do have specific areas assigned to them & I can see them getting pi$$ed about Founder's little business infringing on "their" territory....(I'm not a fan of most outfitters either, but do understand the need for them.)

Appears to me that if the legislature would change the definition of "guide services" in statute from the current language (below) to "for hire or remuneration, accompanying OR (instead of and) providing assistance to a hunter in the field.....the issue would be taken care of with one word change????? Then it would require Founder to have to work for an outfitter as a guide in a specific area.

Just a thought....


Per Wyo Statute

23-2-406. Definitions.

(a) As used in this act:

(i) "Advertises" means attempting by any means, including the Internet, the World Wide Web or a similar proprietary or common carrier electronic system, to induce persons to enter into an agreement with an outfitter to receive guide or packing services;

(ii) "Board" means the Wyoming state board of outfitters and guides established under this act;

(iii) "Guide services" means for hire or remuneration, accompanying and providing assistance to a hunter in the field relating to the taking of any big or trophy game animal except as provided in W.S. 23 2 401(b) and (c);
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-19 AT 10:38AM (MST)[p]>Isn't the issue really whether or
>not an individual selling GPS
>coordinates is acting as a
>"guide" or "outfitter"...instead of the
>"fair chase" question...Outfitters do have
>specific areas assigned to them
>& I can see them
>getting pi$$ed about Founder's little
>business infringing on "their" territory....(I'm
>not a fan of most
>outfitters either, but do understand
>the need for them.)
>
>Appears to me that if the
>legislature would change the definition
>of "guide services" in statute
>from the current language (below)
> to "for hire or
>remuneration, accompanying OR (instead of
>and) providing assistance to a
>hunter in the field.....the issue
>would be taken care of
>with one word change?????
>Then it would require Founder
>to have to work for
>an outfitter as a guide
>in a specific area.
>
>Just a thought....
>
>
>Per Wyo Statute
>
>23-2-406. Definitions.
>
>(a) As used in this
>act:
>
>(i) "Advertises" means attempting by
>any means, including the Internet,
>the World Wide Web or
>a similar proprietary or common
>carrier electronic system, to induce
>persons to enter into an
>agreement with an outfitter to
>receive guide or packing services;
>
>
>(ii) "Board" means the Wyoming
>state board of outfitters and
>guides established under this act;
>
>
>(iii) "Guide services" means for
>hire or remuneration, accompanying and
>providing assistance to a hunter
>in the field relating to
>the taking of any big
>or trophy game animal except
>as provided in W.S. 23
>2 401(b) and (c);


They'd have to remove the words "in the field", which would then outlaw everything that helps a hunter (magazines, books, internet sites, etc.). "In the field" is what separates what I do from what a guide does as it pertains to the transfer of information. He transfers the information about the location of an animal "in the field", I do it via a report I sell in Utah.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Rocky: so what if someone simply sold a USGS topo map with a location marked on it? No GPS involved, which is stipulated in the statute ...Most all of us can read a topo map.

Dropping the words "on the internet" did not solve that issue. At least in IMHO....

They need to change the language to get their desired results...too easy to work around as is...
 
>Rocky: so what if someone
>simply sold a USGS topo
>map with a location marked
>on it? No
>GPS involved, which is stipulated
>in the statute ...Most all
>of us can read a
>topo map.
>
>Dropping the words "on the internet"
>did not solve that issue.
> At least in IMHO....
>
>
>They need to change the language
>to get their desired results...too
>easy to work around as
>is...

I seen this bill about 2 weeks ago. Finally showed up hear with a bang...lol. I've read it and think I understand it... and the way I read it its all about limiting technologies only. I also have drank a six pack one evening and a pot of coffee reading this thread...lol. Read the Montana proposal too which goes way more in-depth on limiting the type of information sold than the Wyoming version. So the Senate amendment will read; "(C) Persons selling for remuneration the location and identification information of an individual big game animal located using a GPS device." Does that stop someone from printing off a topo map and selling an "X" on the topo, google map or other GIS imagery aerial map with labels of the trailheads and roads where to start your hike...? I don't think it does. Its certainly more work to create a custom map than to text or email someone GPS coordinates. As long as there isn't any kind of 'GPS Coords' stated on the map your just selling a piece of paper. People aren't dumb though, and anyone can jump on Google or any other County based GIS system that's available to EVERYONE and look at that "X" and go to their preferred GIS base map system and say,....'well that X is right about here....' and pull a GPS coordinate for the approximate location. The Montana version is written to not be able to sell ANY type of information, from what I've read. I think this is just a stepping stone. Something that'll start the ball rolling to more regulation perhaps in the future.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-19 AT 06:57PM (MST)[p]Some people get it on their own; others (regardless of reason) exchange money to get it. Most arguments for or against this practice are grasping at straws to argue their case. The closest example to this is prostitution. Pimping deer. Only one state allows prostitution; in that state you have to use an outfitter. They are called brothels.

Your personal stance on this issue comes down to morals. If Wyoming?s overall morals drive this to be statue, it becomes a mater of hunting ethics. Morals are individual values, ethics are the values of a community. Hunter education 101.

If you don't see harm to the hunting community and wildlife by this practice, there isn't going to be much said to convince you otherwise.

If you see the practice harming the community and wildlife, same goes.

For whatever it's worth, I think continued practice and growth in the practice will harm the wildlife and become a major detriment to the hunting community. As more and more hunting issues get ran through the courts, this practice poses a tremendous threat. As we have seen, sound science has little influence on the court system. Emotion and politics continue to play bigger roles in those court decisions . Add a social perspective of pimping wildlife...wow...pouring kerosene on the emotional fire there!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19 AT 09:38AM (MST)[p]Sometimes you read something that simplifies issues so well u think "how did I not think of that?" It also dispells the "my buddy showed me" argument. Lots of dudes have sex, with wives/gf. Love to see them explain to those wives/gf that paying for it is exactly the same. Should go well.


Myself and others have asked Founder and his supporters where should a line be drawn. Seems all they say is "outfitters do it". Not sure if that means they believe anything goes if there is a market? Because to me, its a pretty short hop from locations to GPS tagging, or even more exact location devices.

I would only add that I hope Wyoming and Montana pass this. And I hope Founder follows through on his threat to sue. A precident would be nice. Honestly, I would much prefer that case to happen in Wyoming than my home state, Utah for the obvious reasons.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19
>AT 09:38?AM (MST)
>
>Sometimes you read something that simplifies
>issues so well u think
>"how did I not think
>of that?" It also
>dispells the "my buddy showed
>me" argument. Lots of
>dudes have sex, with wives/gf.
> Love to see them
>explain to those wives/gf that
>paying for it is exactly
>the same. Should go
>well.
>
>
>Myself and others have asked Founder
>and his supporters where should
>a line be drawn.
>Seems all they say is
>"outfitters do it". Not
>sure if that means they
>believe anything goes if there
>is a market? Because
>to me, its a pretty
>short hop from locations to
>GPS tagging, or even more
>exact location devices.
>
>I would only add that I
>hope Wyoming and Montana pass
>this. And I hope
>Founder follows through on his
>threat to sue. A
>precident would be nice.
> Honestly, I would
>much prefer that case to
>happen in Wyoming than my
>home state, Utah for the
>obvious reasons.
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


I've already stated my line, I'm all for decreasing success rates and increasing opportunity. My issue comes in when a double standard comes into play.

If sharing of information is outlawed, then it should be outlawed for outfitters too. They don't pay anything to scout and share that information. They don't use and "use days" for that. They could have a team of 100 guys out there looking for bucks and pay nothing for that.

I'd love to see many things done to increase opportunity and quality which takes decreasing success rates. But if you look at efforts being made to address those things, what do you find??, a bill in a couple states to address issues that have little to no effect at all. Time and effort is being used on issues of little impact while the big things are ignored because it's too hard to make change.

There are loads things that could change that would actually benefit sportsmen. Outlawing me and that website that no one has heard of and that likely gets no business, is just silly. Maybe next they can waste lots of time and money to pass a bill outlawing someone from shooting albino bucks too, that'll save as many bucks as outlawing me will. Ha Ha

But hossblur, we've agreed to disagree on the ethics of me selling information reports. I find it no less ethical than outfitting. Also, I wouldn't begin my quest to increase opportunity and quality for all by outlawing either outfitting or sharing information. I'd start with other things that have a much greater impact and that where one win results in major change, rather than it taking a million little tiny wins to make a difference.

So there you go, that's where I draw the line, but I'm probably on a different track than yourself because I am by no means anti-outfitter. I firmly believe there is a need for them, as well as for information providers to fill the gap between totally uninformed and a $7,000 outfitted hunt.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Brian,

Thank you for being honest about your own hypocrisy, I mean that in a good way.

NIMBYism isn't rare.

I'll just point out a couple things that really apply to this discussion.

I read an interesting study, where a group of about a thousand people from every State were asked to approve or disapprove of the job Congress was doing as a whole. The results were something like 85-90% disapproved of the job Congress was doing.

The same thousand people were asked to rate THEIR members of Congress...nearly a 180 degree change, with approval ratings of 85% for their guys/gals.

In other words its not their A-hole that's the problem, its everyone else's.

I think the way you're defending your position on this bill is 100% the same. Its not what YOU do that is the problem, its everyone else that is.

People justify anything and everything they do...up to and including poaching big-game. That person has justified in their mind, why they should do it. They don't care about anything or anyone else in regard to how their actions impact others, the wildlife, etc. They've justified it or they wouldn't do it.

I will also tell you that it takes a rare bird that will argue in favor of something that limits them or impacts what they do, to do what's right for the wildlife and sporting community as a whole . But, the one group, that historically HAS done that is Sportsmen...although with the ego's, greed, and money/commercialization, it has become less and less frequent. Used to be just the way Sportsmen operate. The very reason they self imposed limits on animals, seasons, license requirements etc.

There is a reason that we cant snare big-game animals, or shoot them out of spot lights, or shoot bull elk and buck mule deer in ass deep snow in the middle of January, etc. etc.

We, collectively, even against our own self interest, imposed a set of basic regulations about 100% based on ethics and fair chase to keep our wildlife around.

While you Brian, don't think the service you provide is negatively impacting wildlife, I disagree.

Let me guess what you would have thought about flying to find big bucks in the Wyoming Range if you had an airplane and pilots license. Not that unusual, we had guys that were flying to scout busting our balls, almost verbatim to your argument that what you do doesn't matter. But, there were also guys like me, that have the money, time and access to a plane that could have been scouting from the air. For the price of av-gas I could have been flying all over the Wyoming Range, or anywhere else in Wyoming to scout. But, I also didn't give it a second thought to make the practice illegal, even though I could personally benefit from it...easily.

I also think you're out of line in your thinking that the big win is not equal to more smaller wins. Not true at all. If we sit on our asses, and wait for the perfect solution, at the perfect time, we'll be screwed, blued, and tattooed while incremental, small changes eat our lunch. Many small changes over time, equal big changes.

Plus, its best to get in front of issues when they're small and impact the fewest number of people. Once a practice or technology becomes something that a lot of people do, it just gets tougher and tougher to roll it back (advances in rifle, muzzleloader, archery, outfitting, and trail cam technology for examples).

I completely understand your position, just don't agree with it and will work to stop what you're doing if this bill were to pass.
 
I'm sure you know what's best BuzzH. Just keep me posted on what's ethical and proper, and forgive me for my shortcomings.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
I believe Founder is correct, this is the same as outfitting. Maybe he should be required to get an outfitter's license?

NTO outfitters is selling this exact information to their high paying clients and finding other clients to split points with their high paying clients as well. they sell their scouting on the internet...it is very similar in my opinion, but the price difference is an order of magnitude different.

https://nontypicaloutfitters.com/category/scouting/

I understand that people don't like the practice, I myself have a bit of a problem with it, but I would just as soon see all outfitters go as well! We all know that will never happen.
 
I just gave my thumbs up to pass the bill to a WY senator. Just remember guys, some legislators can see things for what they really are.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Founder.

Your answer was interesting. It was like the miss America pageant contestants who are for world peace and ending hunger.

'm all for decreasing success rates and increasing opportunity. How does your sevice accomplish either? Keep in mind I believe your as good as you claim to be.

We probably agree more on outfitters. I'm not totally anti outfitter, private land is private land. I'm not sure how all the other consumptive users on public pay a consumption or extractive rate and guides don't.

I'm not being sarcastic. I really want this challenged in court. The tech hunting industry is the wild west. Something needs to happen.

I am not a real fan of the "ethics" argument other than I guess that's technically what game laws are. But you have yet to explain how this benefits the resource, increases opportunity, or decreases success rates.

Last. You keep claiming how minor this industry is. Care to share how many packages you sold? I know at least one, but if we are truly talking 5-6 dudes combined between the sites, I agree its meaningless. But I can't figure out why the outfitters would spend 2 years pushing, if these sites weren't actual competition. I run a super tiny Buisness. I doubt highly any of my bigger competitors even know I'm alive.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Shoot I can even pay the outfitter a few grand and he can help me shoot a 1000 yards? I think were missing the elephant in the room!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19 AT 03:44PM (MST)[p]>Founder.
>
>Your answer was interesting. It
>was like the miss America
>pageant contestants who are for
>world peace and ending hunger.
>
>
>'m all for decreasing success rates
>and increasing opportunity. How
>does your sevice accomplish either?
> Keep in mind I
>believe your as good as
>you claim to be.
>
>We probably agree more on outfitters.
> I'm not totally anti
>outfitter, private land is private
>land. I'm not sure
>how all the other consumptive
>users on public pay a
>consumption or extractive rate and
>guides don't.
>
>I'm not being sarcastic. I
>really want this challenged in
>court. The tech hunting industry
>is the wild west.
>Something needs to happen.
>
>I am not a real fan
>of the "ethics" argument other
>than I guess that's technically
>what game laws are.
>But you have yet to
>explain how this benefits the
>resource, increases opportunity, or decreases
>success rates.
>
>Last. You keep claiming how
>minor this industry is.
>Care to share how many
>packages you sold? I
>know at least one, but
>if we are truly talking
>5-6 dudes combined between the
>sites, I agree its meaningless.
> But I can't figure
>out why the outfitters would
>spend 2 years pushing, if
>these sites weren't actual competition.
> I run a super
>tiny Buisness. I doubt highly
>any of my bigger competitors
>even know I'm alive.
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

I'm not saying my ?selling? reports is helping deer, but I also shoot a high powered rifle that's killed more deer than the guys I've helped.
There are bigger things. This is a big deal because they're making it a big deal.
I'd bet that between myself and that site someone mentioned, that we're helping maybe 10 people combined. And of the 10 people, 95% who killed a deer, would?ve killed one without my help. It's not like people stay home from hunting if I'm not here to help.
What I do effects success rate by almost nothing. Nor does it effect opportunity. It has an ever so small effect on the average age of bucks harvested, as a few guys might get the older buck I pointed them to.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Even if I were helping a thousand people, it would have very little impact on success rates and effect opportunity none. In fact, because I'm a trophy hunter and very strongly encourage the guys I help to pass on all bucks except the big one, their success rate is probably lower than what it normally be.
Same number of people hunt whether I'm selling reports or not. Success rate wouldn't change anything significant, if any at all.
This isn't about all that. This law is, ?let's shut that dude up so we have less competition on those bucks that have just a little bigger antlers that we want to kill?.
If my information was for does, I guarantee you that this bill would not exist. Do you think it would? They claim it's for the good of the sport and wildlife, but you know no one would give a crap if I were selling reports to super hunting novices on where to shoot a doe. Or even little bucks for that matter.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19
>AT 03:44?PM (MST)
>
>>Founder.
>>
>>Your answer was interesting. It
>>was like the miss America
>>pageant contestants who are for
>>world peace and ending hunger.
>>
>>
>>'m all for decreasing success rates
>>and increasing opportunity. How
>>does your sevice accomplish either?
>> Keep in mind I
>>believe your as good as
>>you claim to be.
>>
>>We probably agree more on outfitters.
>> I'm not totally anti
>>outfitter, private land is private
>>land. I'm not sure
>>how all the other consumptive
>>users on public pay a
>>consumption or extractive rate and
>>guides don't.
>>
>>I'm not being sarcastic. I
>>really want this challenged in
>>court. The tech hunting industry
>>is the wild west.
>>Something needs to happen.
>>
>>I am not a real fan
>>of the "ethics" argument other
>>than I guess that's technically
>>what game laws are.
>>But you have yet to
>>explain how this benefits the
>>resource, increases opportunity, or decreases
>>success rates.
>>
>>Last. You keep claiming how
>>minor this industry is.
>>Care to share how many
>>packages you sold? I
>>know at least one, but
>>if we are truly talking
>>5-6 dudes combined between the
>>sites, I agree its meaningless.
>> But I can't figure
>>out why the outfitters would
>>spend 2 years pushing, if
>>these sites weren't actual competition.
>> I run a super
>>tiny Buisness. I doubt highly
>>any of my bigger competitors
>>even know I'm alive.
>>
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>I'm not saying my ?selling? reports
>is helping deer, but I
>also shoot a high powered
>rifle that's killed more deer
>than the guys I've helped.
>
>There are bigger things. This is
>a big deal because they're
>making it a big deal.
>
>I'd bet that between myself and
>that site someone mentioned, that
>we're helping maybe 10 people
>combined. And of the 10
>people, 95% who killed a
>deer, would?ve killed one without
>my help. It's not like
>people stay home from hunting
>if I'm not here to
>help.
>What I do effects success rate
>by almost nothing. Nor does
>it effect opportunity. It has
>an ever so small effect
>on the average age of
>bucks harvested, as a few
>guys might get the older
>buck I pointed them to.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Ok. I don't like the practice obviously. I do agree I think their are a LOT bigger fish to fry. Ill give you in old school, my dad and granddad would have disowned me for spending $1400 for a deer location. I read and look at your stuff. Seems like even 10 guys that dent your 190-200 class, would irradicate it based on what you say you see.

Not my sword. Ill fall on another one. But I will say my shock is that YOU do this. I've read your interviews about hard work, being there earlier, later, longer. I guess I'm a little more shocked that YOU are offereing up the easy way for someone to bypass the other dudes who are doing it the way you do. If it wasn't a shortcut, or an easy route, it wouldn't be worth a dime.

I hope it passes and you get a civil rights attorney to challenge. Then at least there would be some baseline.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
You?re super crazy if you think everyone I help is successful on the buck I told them about. Have you not seen how many years I've been skunked, and I put lots of time hunting.
What I do also effects outfitting almost none, as the guys I help have lots and lots of experience and have no use for a guide and wouldn't hire one anyway. They?re backcountry hunters with experience.
The guys I help just haven't the time, or in most cases, live way too far to scout it themselves. That's it. If they could, they would.
If you ever go to Alaska hunting, I'd love to here about your total do-it-yourself hunt and your scouting trips. Most people in the lower 48 would have a tough time doing their scouting trips up there in order for it to be what you may feel is ethical hunting.
What I offer is very good for those who have no interest in a guide, but can't do their own scouting.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>You?re super crazy if you think
>everyone I help is successful
>on the buck I told
>them about. Have you not
>seen how many years I've
>been skunked, and I put
>lots of time hunting.
>What I do also effects outfitting
>almost none, as the guys
>I help have lots and
>lots of experience and have
>no use for a guide
>and wouldn't hire one anyway.
>They?re backcountry hunters with experience.
>
>The guys I help just haven't
>the time, or in most
>cases, live way too far
>to scout it themselves. That's
>it. If they could, they
>would.
>If you ever go to Alaska
>hunting, I'd love to here
>about your total do-it-yourself hunt
>and your scouting trips. Most
>people in the lower 48
>would have a tough time
>doing their scouting trips up
>there in order for it
>to be what you may
>feel is ethical hunting.
>What I offer is very good
>for those who have no
>interest in a guide, but
>can't do their own scouting.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

I have to hire a guide in Alaska. Little different.

Differences I guess. I tell my kids that's why they call it hunting and not killing.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19 AT 04:43PM (MST)[p]I've been to Alaska hunting several times...know how much I paid a scouting service each time?

Shot moose, blacktails, and a Resident friend shot a brown bear on one hunt.

Just basic research anyone can do for free...

In fairness I did go with a guide for sheep in 1995, had no choice other than to move there.

Used a transporter for muskox and my friend and I both glassed up the ox we each killed. Still didn't pay anyone to scout.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19 AT 04:51PM (MST)[p]Brian,

What happens when 10, 20, 30, 50 people start doing the same thing as you?

Still no impact?

I say nip the small problems before they become a big problem.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19
>AT 04:51?PM (MST)
>
>Brian,
>
>What happens when 10, 20, 30,
>50 people start doing the
>same thing as you?
>
>Still no impact?
>
>I say nip the small problems
>before they become a big
>problem.


Correct, still no impact to opportunity or success rates. Might it have a small effect on bucks of an older age being harvested? Yes. But some people would rather older bucks be harvested rather than younger ones. And even at that it would be very minimal, as not all older bucks have large antlers and not all big bucks are that old.
Might it result in a few less bucks with big antlers at the end of the season, sure. So then regulate it, don't do away with it. But don't just hand it over to outfitters as a new revenue stream either. Just because it revolves around wildlife, shouldn't mean that it should be handed over to outfitters. Give us all an opportunity to be involved without having to be in the club.
There?s nothing wrong with going on a guided hunt and there's nothing wrong with buying information. In one form or another, we all have bought information.
I just don't think it needs to be given an unfair label as ?unethical? when it isn't and can be managed to elimate the parts that might go too far in the minds of some. Educate people on it rather than giving it unfair, dishonest labels to outlaw it.
There?s room for an information service to help the guys who can't scout, but who want to hunt a good spot, without needing to pay a guide $7k. The guys I work with are very accomplished hunters who can pack into rugged country and get after it hard, they just live too far to scout or don't have the vacation time. Most of them would be far, far better hunters than most of the guides out there, so it's hard to pay to have someone babysit you and drag you off the mountain 3 hours before prime time evening hunting.
And when you talk about all these people offering the information, you're way off. The demand is small, and without demand there will be few people offering it.
I always tell everyone I speak with about it, if you can get up there and scout do it, but not all can.
All this legislation is just going to end up putting it in the hands of outfitters and those of us who have a passion for it will be cut out of the club.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>>You?re super crazy if you think
>>everyone I help is successful
>>on the buck I told
>>them about. Have you not
>>seen how many years I've
>>been skunked, and I put
>>lots of time hunting.
>>What I do also effects outfitting
>>almost none, as the guys
>>I help have lots and
>>lots of experience and have
>>no use for a guide
>>and wouldn't hire one anyway.
>>They?re backcountry hunters with experience.
>>
>>The guys I help just haven't
>>the time, or in most
>>cases, live way too far
>>to scout it themselves. That's
>>it. If they could, they
>>would.
>>If you ever go to Alaska
>>hunting, I'd love to here
>>about your total do-it-yourself hunt
>>and your scouting trips. Most
>>people in the lower 48
>>would have a tough time
>>doing their scouting trips up
>>there in order for it
>>to be what you may
>>feel is ethical hunting.
>>What I offer is very good
>>for those who have no
>>interest in a guide, but
>>can't do their own scouting.
>>
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>@mm_founder on Instagram
>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>on Facebook!
>
>I have to hire a guide
>in Alaska. Little different.
>
>
>Differences I guess. I tell my
>kids that's why they call
>it hunting and not killing.
>
>
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


You want to put your money where your mouth is on the ?it's hunting not killing?? I'll bet you I could give you the same information I sell and you CAN?T take a picture of him during the hunt. ???
When you get home, we'll see what tune you're singing about how it's killing and not hunting. I'm game, you?
You might have success, and I might be paying up, but I don't think you'll be talking about how it's just killing, and not hunting. It's easy to talk.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-19 AT 06:28PM (MST)[p]>>>You?re super crazy if you think
>>>everyone I help is successful
>>>on the buck I told
>>>them about. Have you not
>>>seen how many years I've
>>>been skunked, and I put
>>>lots of time hunting.
>>>What I do also effects outfitting
>>>almost none, as the guys
>>>I help have lots and
>>>lots of experience and have
>>>no use for a guide
>>>and wouldn't hire one anyway.
>>>They?re backcountry hunters with experience.
>>>
>>>The guys I help just haven't
>>>the time, or in most
>>>cases, live way too far
>>>to scout it themselves. That's
>>>it. If they could, they
>>>would.
>>>If you ever go to Alaska
>>>hunting, I'd love to here
>>>about your total do-it-yourself hunt
>>>and your scouting trips. Most
>>>people in the lower 48
>>>would have a tough time
>>>doing their scouting trips up
>>>there in order for it
>>>to be what you may
>>>feel is ethical hunting.
>>>What I offer is very good
>>>for those who have no
>>>interest in a guide, but
>>>can't do their own scouting.
>>>
>>>
>>>Brian Latturner
>>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>>@mm_founder on Instagram
>>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>>on Facebook!
>>
>>I have to hire a guide
>>in Alaska. Little different.
>>
>>
>>Differences I guess. I tell my
>>kids that's why they call
>>it hunting and not killing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>
>You want to put your money
>where your mouth is on
>the ?it's hunting not killing??
>I'll bet you I could
>give you the same information
>I sell and you CAN?T
>take a picture of him
>during the hunt. ???
>When you get home, we'll see
>what tune you're singing about
>how it's killing and not
>hunting. I'm game, you?
>You might have success, and I
>might be paying up, but
>I don't think you'll be
>talking about how it's just
>killing, and not hunting. It's
>easy to talk.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

We've been down this road before. I can quote your website where you explain how much better my odds are with your service, you tell me I can't find the deer you've seen. Back and forth.

You are pretty vocal about LR. We are the same age group. 20yrs ago how many LR guys were there? How many today? How many trail cams were there. How about today? What was your pack, binos, boots, clothes like 20 yrs ago, what are they today? Imagine what your service will be like in 20 years. Watch a few military shows and see where the weapons are going. See where the GPS/sat tech is headed. We saw in the 80' s how GPS worked in Iraq. Saw green berets lighting up targets. Saw snipers expand in miles not feet. Our generation didn't grow up with tech. Your kids are. So are mine. We didn't grow up with Amazon and the ability to buy anything at the push of a button, our kids are. What you claim is can aberration with a small market, will only grow. And you know it. The first dudes with computers were geeks. Now it write this from swimming lessons on a phone. The progression is unbelievable.

I remember same as you the piles of huge deer in front of every Wolf's, or Sunset sports in big deer contests. Our dads throwing away 170 deer horns cuz they were little. We've become light years more effective than our dads with their Enfields, wranglers, and flannel.

I get you don't like personal attacks. I've tried to stay away from them. But to pretend you don't know why this is a big deal and only getting bigger, I don't believe. This is your site. I don't believe you haven't seen the accelerated pace of tech, and the corresponding decrease in opportunity that are discussed daily if not hourly. Thsts why I keep asking you where you would draw a line. To which you respond in generalities.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. If its a bad practice, then it is bad across the board. But pointing that out, doesn't mean the practice isn't bad, it just means it should be applied across the board. I'm on board with that, sign me up.

From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Lastly, then I'm out.

If the wgf and state legislators know your name, and your not from Wyoming, that's not a good thing.

The land your on is public. The animals belong to the folks in Wyoming. Your a guest. Not every state allows NR. There is no rule that says Wyoming has to.

Years ago I remember the onslaught of Cali guys in Utah. I remember how many days were lost pulling out guts in 2 wheel drive trucks. How many hunts were messed up by search and rescue looking for some guy in lightweight jackets and tennis shoes. I really started to dislike Cali guys because of that.

My point. A lot of us are NR somewhere. Sure be nice to not worry about our trucks at the trailhead just because of Utah plates. Maybe try laying a little low, regardless of the outcome?

I'm out, at least until there is an actual rule, or lawsuit.

Thanks for the discussion, I think we need more of these types of issue based discussions from time to time.

And as always. Thanks for the site



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Getting close to passing "The selling of wildlife geographic locations". No more of that! Still think is unconstitutional, but what can I do. At least they back off the silly unfair fair chase BS.

My question for the smart guys, BuzzH and JM77, how can this not effect outfitters that sell an animals location as part of a package? If Wiley tells a client, "we're going to hunt this big 5x5", and then takes the dude there, couldn't this be selling of a location? Or no? Will the commission make an exception?
What's your opinion?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Reasonable question.

I can tell you that I'm going to be advocating at the commission level to make it illegal across the board.

If you exempt guides/outfitters in any regulation, then you just codify in regulation the very thing you're trying to stop. The outfitters better get on board, because I will not favor any regulation that exempts anyone.

Plus, if the law says you have to be a guide/outfitter, you are giving every single resident of Wyoming the green light to operate a scouting business. Every resident can obtain a free resident guide license...don't want that either.

I disagree that drop camps are the same thing, they aren't the same, and again its regulated by the Land Management Agencies.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-19 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]I have talked to outfitters in WY about drop camps and every one of them mentioned, scouting, pictures and locations of game spotted. It would be hard to sell a drop camp if they said that there used to be deer there, we will just drop you off and we are hoping it is a good spot. Some of the information is historical, I understand that.

I just believe that the outfitters are trying to eliminate competition.

Like I said above, I am good with Wyoming doing what they want. Just believe the motivation behind it is to elimanate outfitter competition.

Rich
 
Wouldn't the fact that a guide scouts, locates a buck and then later takes a client to it represent "selling of wildlife geographical location"? Even though it's a part of the whole package?
My selling of wildlife location was only a part of my package. I provided much more than just a location of where a deer was seen.

OR, does the fact that they just take them into the area without pointing out where (exact geographical location) the deer was in the summer exempt them?

What's ya'all's thought on that?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
I'm sure all of us would agree that modern day equipment and technology has put a big twist in the sport we are passionate about! A lot of guides and outfitters across the country sell hunts by photos of a particular giant buck or bull caught on game cameras. Game cameras seem like a popular tool that is used across the nation....to bad they weren't outlawed when they first came out! Should it be legal for outfitters to sell hunts using photos advertised on their websites of a buck or bull that they got on camera?

I'm sure the outfitters association will be thrilled if they get involved in this? My guess is that it will be an uphill battle getting something like this passed...especially with outfitters involved? As mentioned earlier, where is a line drawn between what is legal, ethical, fair chase, etc. and what is not?

This ought to be a reality check for all of us to consider what modern day equipment we use to hunt...and where our sport is going!
 
An outfitter might argue that because he has a Forest Service Use Permit that he should be exempt from any law that might prohibit the sharing of information. But outfitter use permits have nothing to do with the scouting they do. They don't need a permit to scout and gather information and they don't use any ?use days? for scouting. Their permits are for accompanying hunters, not gathering of information about the area while on their own during the summer.
My feeling is that if an outfitter scouts game, locates and bundles that information as part of the hunting package, then takes a hunter to where the deer was seen, then that's the same as me bundling the information into a report about hunting an area.
Both are packages that include the location of a deer, the location part is just delivered differently.
Absolutely the game and fish can choose to ignore the rule for some and enforce on others, but that's not legal or right either I don't believe.

As far as technology, I agree that something needs to happen to decrease success rates, but I think it's silly to try and start ?the movement? by stopping me from selling a report, while allowing others to do the same thing, especially when my reports have virtually ZERO effect on success rates and opportunity.

Long range rifles have a far greater effect on success rates.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>Long range rifles have a far
>greater effect on success rates.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com

No one really cared when it was just a couple dudes using them. Would have been nice to nip that one in the bud.
 
>
>>Long range rifles have a far
>>greater effect on success rates.
>>
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>
>No one really cared when it
>was just a couple dudes
>using them. Would
>have been nice to nip
>that one in the bud.
>


True. Had you jumped on that one, only outfitter clients would be using long range rifles now.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-19 AT 11:08AM (MST)[p]If your going to keep saying they do what you do, then YOU should do what they do, right?
Here's the fee table.
Thinking you still need a bond and insurance too?

Seems like perhaps you want to carve out a niche where you profit 100% from doing "the same thing" as outfitters who seem to have a lot of pesky fees, and overhead, before they take one client anywhere.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6kSHOoFVc1LN0xMR1FmalhhUnc/view?usp=drivesdk

I agree totally if it illegal it should be so across the board.

I believe it should be illegal.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-19
>AT 11:08?AM (MST)
>
>If your going to keep saying
>they do what you do,
>then YOU should do what
>they do, right?
>Here's the fee table.
>Thinking you still need a bond
>and insurance too?
>
>Seems like perhaps you want to
>carve out a niche where
>you profit 100% from doing
>"the same thing" as outfitters
>who seem to have a
>lot of pesky fees, and
>overhead, before they take one
>client anywhere.
>
>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6kSHOoFVc1LN0xMR1FmalhhUnc/view?usp=drivesdk
>
>I agree totally if it illegal
>it should be so across
>the board.
>
>I believe it should be illegal.
>
>
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.


NO, not right! I don't want to do the ?accompanying and providing assistance to a hunter in the field? as is the definition of a guide in Wyoming. Neither guides nor I need a license to look at deer and then impart that information to someone else.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-19
>>AT 11:08?AM (MST)
>>
>>If your going to keep saying
>>they do what you do,
>>then YOU should do what
>>they do, right?
>>Here's the fee table.
>>Thinking you still need a bond
>>and insurance too?
>>
>>Seems like perhaps you want to
>>carve out a niche where
>>you profit 100% from doing
>>"the same thing" as outfitters
>>who seem to have a
>>lot of pesky fees, and
>>overhead, before they take one
>>client anywhere.
>>
>>https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6kSHOoFVc1LN0xMR1FmalhhUnc/view?usp=drivesdk
>>
>>I agree totally if it illegal
>>it should be so across
>>the board.
>>
>>I believe it should be illegal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>>PUBLIC LAND.
>
>
>NO, not right! I don't want
>to do the ?accompanying and
>providing assistance to a hunter
>in the field? as is
>the definition of a guide
>in Wyoming. Neither guides nor
>I need a license to
>look at deer and then
>impart that information to someone
>else.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Need me to post your pics of the guy you split points with in exchange for your scouting? Seems like you physically assistedd him?

Founder. There are A lot of guys who" just want to wire a couple basements", or "plumb a couple basements" for side money, but don't want to have to be licensed, bonded, fee charged, liability insured like ACTUAL plumbers or electricians. I'm sure its the same with lawyers, accountants, etc. Your "fairness" argument depends on which side your standing on.

Guides have that overhead regardless of whether they are full service, or do drop camps.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I could even buy an argument that says you shouldn't have to carry liability or be bonded if you don't actually physically take place in the hunt.

But again. I'm with you. We should make the whole damn thing illegal across the board.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
I'm just stating what the facts are now and why I can and do legally do what I do. Sure, in your opinion laws should change to stop me. Fair enough. They?re trying. I'll abide by the law. I'm cool with that, until then, I'll do what I want, not what a few others want me to do. And I'll continue to try and ?sell? my knowledge. It's one of the most valuable assets I have.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>I'm just stating what the facts
>are now and why I
>can and do legally do
>what I do. Sure, in
>your opinion laws should change
>to stop me. Fair enough.
>They?re trying. I'll abide by
>the law. I'm cool with
>that, until then, I'll do
>what I want, not what
>a few others want me
>to do. And I'll continue
>to try and ?sell? my
>knowledge. It's one of the
>most valuable assets I have.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


It seems that you'll be out of the game this year at the pace the bill is going. There should be regulation in place before fall.
 
>>I'm just stating what the facts
>>are now and why I
>>can and do legally do
>>what I do. Sure, in
>>your opinion laws should change
>>to stop me. Fair enough.
>>They?re trying. I'll abide by
>>the law. I'm cool with
>>that, until then, I'll do
>>what I want, not what
>>a few others want me
>>to do. And I'll continue
>>to try and ?sell? my
>>knowledge. It's one of the
>>most valuable assets I have.
>>
>>
>>Brian Latturner
>>MonsterMuleys.com
>>@mm_founder on Instagram
>>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>>on Facebook!
>
>
>It seems that you'll be out
>of the game this year
>at the pace the bill
>is going. There should be
>regulation in place before fall.


Maybe. We'll have to see. I won't break any laws but will continue to sell reports if I can do so legally.


Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>If passed, will Founder just sell
>the info to an outfitter
>is the question?

I would, if I could, do some scouting for an outfitter if that was my only option. I just enjoy doing it, so clearly I'm going to do it if I can. But most of them are probably so pissed at me for having the opinion I do and doing what I've done. Doubt any would hire me.
I think for the game it's better if I help individual hunters, as they only apply pressure on bucks for 4-5 days. Outfitters apply pressure for 3 weeks.
There?s probably a way to help a few guys out without selling wildlife geographical location. Maybe I can provide reports on areas I hunted or scouted in the past. Information to get someone started. I don't know???
With the bill to end point sharing being talk about, my time hunting might be done up there. No point in letting all my knowledge go to waste.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>>If passed, will Founder just sell
>>the info to an outfitter
>>is the question?
>
>I would, if I could, do
>some scouting for an outfitter
>if that was my only
>option. I just enjoy doing
>it, so clearly I'm going
>to do it if I
>can. But most of them
>are probably so pissed at
>me for having the opinion
>I do and doing what
>I've done. Doubt any would
>hire me.
>I think for the game it's
>better if I help individual
>hunters, as they only apply
>pressure on bucks for 4-5
>days. Outfitters apply pressure for
>3 weeks.
>There?s probably a way to help
>a few guys out without
>selling wildlife geographical location. Maybe
>I can provide reports on
>areas I hunted or scouted
>in the past. Information to
>get someone started. I don't
>know???
>With the bill to end point
>sharing being talk about, my
>time hunting might be done
>up there. No point in
>letting all my knowledge go
>to waste.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

According to the current digest, it won't be legal to sell information locations to anyone.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 09:31AM (MST)[p]Founder brings up a great point! What about Eastmans, Carters, and other services that offer clients advice on applying for specific units? Should it be illegal since they are making $ off wildlife and don't have a guides/outfitters license?

The only difference between Founder and other services is that Founder's service is more specific. Eastmans more or less tells clients 170 to 180 bucks are available with a few 190+ bucks possible in a particular unit. If Founder offered his clients photos or videos of bucks while scouting a particular unit rather than coordinates would his service be illegal? Where do you draw the line?

Outfitters across the country pretty much do it ALL THE TIME by providing photos and videos of specific bucks that are found in specific locations they hunt. How many outfitters sell hunts from photos of specific bucks or bulls taken with game cameras. Take a look at their websites!

Should it be illegal for Eastmans and other services to make $ off Wyo wildlife with their service and magazine? Where do you draw the line?
 
>Founder brings up a great point!
> What about Eastmans, Carters,
>and other services that offer
>clients advice on applying for
>specific units? Should it
>be illegal since they are
>making $ off wildlife and
>don't have a guides/outfitters license?
>
>
>The only difference between Founder and
>other services is that
>Founder's service is more specific.
> Eastmans more or less
>often tells clients 170 to
>180 bucks are available with
>a few 190+ bucks possible
>in a particular unit.
>If Founder offered his clients
>photos or videos of bucks
>while scouting in a given
>year in particular units or
>drainages rather than coordinates would
>his service be legal?
>Where do you draw the
>line?
>
>Outfitters across the country pretty much
>sell hunts do it ALL
>THE TIME by providing photos
>of specific bucks taken with
>game cameras, camcorders, or large
>lens cameras that are found
>in specific locations they hunt.
> Take a look at
>their websites!
>
>Should it be illegal for Eastmans
>and other services to make
>$ off Wyo wildlife with
>their service and magazine?
>Where do you draw the
>line?

Saying a unit has good trophy potential vs telling someone what trail to take, where to camp, what exact bucks are there.. Pretty big difference in my opinion. Also, what keeps seeming to be ignored, as you stated, Eastman's etc, and all outfitters are BUSINESSES. Licensed, registered, pay taxes. Founder stuffs his pockets and that's the only reason he started doing this in the first place, along with getting himself tags... outfitters can't go camp wherever they want to sit on a buck due to permits and regulation. Therefore most diy hunters like myself are used to hunting around and the fact is outfitters have and will always be present. But telling someone exactly where to go, exactly what to look for, exactly which bucks they should expect to see, that is 100% assisting, if not, causing the hunt. Because that person would never have set foot in that drainage if not for founders service.
 
I agree with mntnguide.

The information provided by eastmans, hunting fool, etc. is generic. Just slightly better than saying, "there's pronghorn to hunt in Wyoming".

Plus, almost every state now has a "hunt planner" section that is every bit as good as most of the hunting rags.

Its not hard to look at draw results either, and see where most people have the perception of good hunting and units to apply for.

There is a tremendous difference between that and what Brian is doing...
 
I see the Senate amendments really put the teeth in this bill. The increased ability to provide "real time" wildlife data must have finally weighed heavy enough on legislatures to really push to pass this bill. The service founder was providing was one thing, but to think anyone with an ON-X maps program on their smartphone and being able to send a 'pin' location of an animal with hunters waiting in the wings after they seen payment in their paypal account is what really is disgusting to me. One thing out of this legislation that I really like is what should be the elimination of bounty locations of game animals by outfitters. You'd hear about these offers in 'small circles' that so much $$$ was being offered for a certain bucks location. Hopefully this legislation will deter these type of behavior.
 
You are absolutely right that Eastmans and other hunting services are mostly a quick and easy reference for draw odds, quality, etc. Founder offers more specific data to his customers and obviously charges more for his service.

If Founder doesn't pay taxes to Wyo or Utah and needs to be licensed, registered, and insured that's one place I would agree that things get sticky. Most hunting services I know don't pay squat to Wyo for taxes nor are licensed or bonded in Wyo....should they?

If Founder was required by law to be a registered outfitter for his service in Wyo there likely wouldn't be any conflicts?

That's where I made a point in my post above....where do you draw the line between Founder, hunting services, and outfitters? Do out of state hunting services truly need to pay Wyo taxes and have to be registered, insured, and bonded for what they do in Wyo or in the state they reside? If you don't like Founder and other services I would think this is where you should concentrate your effort?

This brings us back to the same question I mentioned above.....where do you draw the line between Founders service, other services, and outfitters! I think it's a little crazy that you are going at it from the GPS and the Fair Chase route...it makes no sense to me!
 
Rocky2track, I agree 100% with your statements! I hope "bounty hunting and baby sitting" becomes a nightmare of the past in Wyo and elsewhere!
 
I suppose it?ll depend on the size of a ?geographical location?. Is that the size of a basket ball, football field, small hunting unit, an entire region???
From what I can see, ?Geographical location refers to a specific physical point on Earth.? It would likely be a GPS coordinate unless it's redefined by Wyoming to meaning something larger. If it's as large as a unit, then it would effect magazines.
We'll have to see what they define as a ?geographical location?, if different from general understanding. Most people I believe would consider a ?geographical location? as an exact place on earth, measured by longitude and latitude.
I think they just want to stop any selling of GPS coordinates where wildlife was seen, that's how I read it.
As far as outfitters, will they be restricted from scouting wildlife and then taking clients to those locations as part of a package? Just cause they're not only selling coordinates, shouldn't make them exempt, should it?
Selling a marijuana brownie is illegal in Utah cause it contains marijuana, even if you just think you're just selling brownies.
I would imagine the commission will give them an exception, in which case, I suppose if I kissed some outfitter butt, maybe one them would hire me to find bucks. I dont know.?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>I'm just stating what the facts
>are now and why I
>can and do legally do
>what I do. Sure, in
>your opinion laws should change
>to stop me. Fair enough.
>They?re trying. I'll abide by
>the law. I'm cool with
>that, until then, I'll do
>what I want, not what
>a few others want me
>to do. And I'll continue
>to try and ?sell? my
>knowledge. It's one of the
>most valuable assets I have.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


I've only repeatedly encountered this mindset in one other population of civilization and that was independent pharmaceutical sales. (Drug dealers) They have a laundry list of why what they are doing is ethically and morally acceptable. They're helping their patients...
 
I see members talking about state taxes that aren't being paid by Founder that may be an issue. How about Federal taxes that should be paid on that income because that's definitely a big nono if they aren't being declared. It would be very interesting if an IRS Agent happens to read these threads and all of a sudden Founder is called in for an audit!
 
After reading the story for "Snag" I don't see how anyone could think its more fair chase to go on an outfitted hunt than it is to just buy a coordinate?
 
>I see members talking about state
>taxes that aren't being paid
>by Founder that may be
>an issue. How about
>Federal taxes that should be
>paid on that income because
>that's definitely a big nono
>if they aren't being declared.
> It would be very
>interesting if an IRS Agent
>happens to read these threads
>and all of a sudden
>Founder is called in for
>an audit!

It would be very interesting to see how much in cash tips outfitters and guides declare a year.

Also Topgun didn't you use a guide in G a few years ago?
 
Topgun,

Just how much taxable income do you think Founder makes from this side business? Good chance that it's zero and that the IRS has bigger fish to fry.
 
>>I see members talking about state
>>taxes that aren't being paid
>>by Founder that may be
>>an issue. How about
>>Federal taxes that should be
>>paid on that income because
>>that's definitely a big nono
>>if they aren't being declared.
>> It would be very
>>interesting if an IRS Agent
>>happens to read these threads
>>and all of a sudden
>>Founder is called in for
>>an audit!
>
>It would be very interesting to
>see how much in cash
>tips outfitters and guides declare
>a year.
>
>Also Topgun didn't you use a
>guide in G a few
>years ago?

Cash paid to people in many different jobs is probably huge when it relies on complete honesty of each tax filer to declare it. I just brought up the Federal angle because it would definitely apply here when it wouldn't to Wyoming. I also did not make the comment to make indication whether it's being declared, just that it should be.

What in haydes does my going on a couple guided hunts in my entire lifetime have to do with this discussion?
 
>Topgun,
>
>Just how much taxable income do
>you think Founder makes from
>this side business?
>Good chance that it's zero
>and that the IRS has
>bigger fish to fry.


I have no idea and don't give a chit since that's between him and the IRS! Your followup comment is about like a kid that gets caught stealing out of the cookie jar and says: "well everybody else is doing it!"
 
Hey Buzz
How about a time limit on the information, say 30 days before your hunt that information can't be used or sold. So if he see a animal in June and Founder gives the location information to a guy for a hunt in October, that animal will have survive thru a couple other hunts to even be there for a Oct hunt.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>What in haydes does my going
>on a couple guided hunts
>in my entire lifetime
>have to do with this
>discussion?

I was curious if you told your guide where to take you or if the guide decided where to go?
 
>Hey Buzz
>How about a time limit on
>the information, say 30 days
>before your hunt that information
>can't be used or sold.
>So if he see a
>animal in June and Founder
>gives the location information to
>a guy for a hunt
>in October, that animal will
>have survive thru a couple
>other hunts to even be
>there for a Oct hunt.
>
>

Its funny you mention that. You would think since BUZZ/JM or both (can't remember which one was bragging about it) spearheaded making planes illegal to scout with from Aug 1-Jan 1 they would be more than happy with that.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 05:40?PM (MST)

>Hey Buzz
>How about a time limit on
>the information, say 30 days
>before your hunt that information
>can't be used or sold.
>So if he see a
>animal in June and Founder
>gives the location information to
>a guy for a hunt
>in October, that animal will
>have survive thru a couple
>other hunts to even be
>there for a Oct hunt.
>
>
>"I have found if you go
>the extra mile it's Never
>crowded".


well considering we dont have october hunts where founder does his services, our mule deer hunts end by the 1st week of october...and the fact founder does most of his scouting in late july and through august like all highcountry mule deer hunters around here, that would basically wipe out the 30 day "waiting" period based on timeline alone.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 06:39?PM (MST)

There are some great posts above that got me thinking!

I am guessing Founder and other hunting services provide information from scouting to their clients well in advance of the season?

If this is true, there likely is a big difference between hunting services and guides/outfitters. Most guides and outfitters scout all the way up to and DURING hunting season...and accompany clients directly to where they have been watching particular bucks and bulls? If $ or goods are involved from actions taken DURING the hunting season I would consider it "guiding?"

Some "guides" likely keep track and watch a particular buck or bull once they initially locate them before and DURING the season. When their clients show up they take them over the hill to where they have been watching the particular buck....NO GPS, MAPS, PHONES, RADIOS needed?

If Founder is providing GPS coordinates, photos, video, etc DURING the hunting season I would consider it illegal because it is pretty darn close to "guiding" a customer directly to a particular critter! He's getting paid to do this DURING the hunting season!

I can also see where it would be good to have a reg in place that makes it illegal to provide a "finders fee" to guides or "scouts" at a designated date prior to and DURING hunting seasons.

I'm not sure about Wyo but there may already be a regulation in place that makes it illegal to use GPS, GPS coordinates, radios, phones, etc to guide hunters to wildlife DURING hunting season?

Having these regs (which may already exist?) would likely eliminate a lot of crappy things that go on DURING hunting season. This may also resolve a lot of frustration about....what's the difference between a hunting service, guide, etc.
 
>>Topgun,
>>
>>Just how much taxable income do
>>you think Founder makes from
>>this side business?
>>Good chance that it's zero
>>and that the IRS has
>>bigger fish to fry.
>
>
>I have no idea and don't
>give a chit since that's
>between him and the IRS!
> Your followup comment is
>about like a kid that
>gets caught stealing out of
>the cookie jar and says:
>"well everybody else is doing
>it!"

Apparently you do care, since you brought up Founder and his tax situation. What was the point of that? At best you are wondering if he is paying taxes on that ?income? and at worst you are insinuating that he's breaking the law. Not too mention, it's obvious that you don't know how taxes or IRS audits work.
 
Trump says it makes you smart to not pay tax. Are you you all smart? TOPGUN? I'm guessing I know the answer for you, but are you ?smart??

Here you go TOPGUN (800) 829-1040.
Ha ha

I pay as much in Wyoming income tax as any Wyoming resident, and I pay Utah state income tax too! How many of them do that? Ha ha

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
>Trump says it makes you smart
>to not pay tax. Are
>you you all smart? TOPGUN?
>I'm guessing I know the
>answer for you, but are
>you ?smart??
>
>Here you go TOPGUN (800) 829-1040.
>
>Ha ha
>
>I pay as much in Wyoming
>income tax as any Wyoming
>resident, and I pay Utah
>state income tax too! How
>many of them do that?
>Ha ha
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Smart enough to know that Wyoming doesn't have an income tax and if I read one more post of yours with your hahas I think I'm going to puke! So much for your apology about being antagonistic!!!
 
>>>Topgun,
>>>
>>>Just how much taxable income do
>>>you think Founder makes from
>>>this side business?
>>>Good chance that it's zero
>>>and that the IRS has
>>>bigger fish to fry.
>>
>>
>>I have no idea and don't
>>give a chit since that's
>>between him and the IRS!
>> Your followup comment is
>>about like a kid that
>>gets caught stealing out of
>>the cookie jar and says:
>>"well everybody else is doing
>>it!"
>
>Apparently you do care, since you
>brought up Founder and his
>tax situation. What was
>the point of that?
>At best you are wondering
>if he is paying taxes
>on that ?income? and at
>worst you are insinuating that
>he's breaking the law.
>Not too mention, it's obvious
>that you don't know how
>taxes or IRS audits work.
>

Do you think you could ever make a positive post on this Forum because so far every one of them sucks?!!! If you're so smart about taxes and how the IRS audits work, why don't you start a thread and tell us all about it!
 
We'll have to see the final verbiage of the bill, but this wont be much different than Land Owner tags, they cant sell the tags themselves, but can give a tag to someone who is paying a trespass fee... One could give the information on a bucks previous known area for free, then the other patron could simply pay that person not to tell anyone else about it. Technically he didn't pay for the information, he paid him to not disclose the information to anyone else.
 
Not correct, you need to brush up on the law regarding landowner tags in Wyoming.

Landowner tags in Wyoming are not transferable.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-10-19 AT 08:34PM (MST)[p]>We'll have to see the final
>verbiage of the bill, but
>this wont be much different
>than Land Owner tags, they
>cant sell the tags themselves,
>but can give a tag
>to someone who is paying
>a trespass fee...

Don't know where you came up with that, but not in Wyoming.

Buzz beat me to this one too!
 
>>Hey Buzz
>>How about a time limit on
>>the information, say 30 days
>>before your hunt that information
>>can't be used or sold.
>>So if he see a
>>animal in June and Founder
>>gives the location information to
>>a guy for a hunt
>>in October, that animal will
>>have survive thru a couple
>>other hunts to even be
>>there for a Oct hunt.
>>
>>
>
>Its funny you mention that. You
>would think since BUZZ/JM or
>both (can't remember which one
>was bragging about it) spearheaded
>making planes illegal to scout
>with from Aug 1-Jan 1
>they would be more than
>happy with that.

Your memory and understanding of that issue are completely wrong. Jeff and I both worked on that issue and got drones added to the definition of aircraft, and also made sure that regulation didn't conflict with statute. The dates are August 1-January 31.

No, to answer the other question, I wouldn't put dates on the scouting service and make it illegal across the board and apply to everyone.

Also, for the record, the flight regulation still conflicts with Statute too, but Jeff and I compromised with the GF and Commission on that one. That regulation probably needs to be looked at again in the future and make scouting from the air illegal year round.
 
>>Hey Buzz
>>How about a time limit on
>>the information, say 30 days
>>before your hunt that information
>>can't be used or sold.
>>So if he see a
>>animal in June and Founder
>>gives the location information to
>>a guy for a hunt
>>in October, that animal will
>>have survive thru a couple
>>other hunts to even be
>>there for a Oct hunt.
>>
>>
>
>Its funny you mention that. You
>would think since BUZZ/JM or
>both (can't remember which one
>was bragging about it) spearheaded
>making planes illegal to scout
>with from Aug 1-Jan 1
>they would be more than
>happy with that.

Once again, a keyboard hero who gets it wrong. First, it was the G&F idea for dates specific. Second, it's Aug 1-Jan 31st. How funny is it now?
 
I charge $1,250 an hour to give tax advice. Send me a check and i will educate you. If i need the internet police i will pay you your minimum wage.
 
>>>Hey Buzz
>>>How about a time limit on
>>>the information, say 30 days
>>>before your hunt that information
>>>can't be used or sold.
>>>So if he see a
>>>animal in June and Founder
>>>gives the location information to
>>>a guy for a hunt
>>>in October, that animal will
>>>have survive thru a couple
>>>other hunts to even be
>>>there for a Oct hunt.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Its funny you mention that. You
>>would think since BUZZ/JM or
>>both (can't remember which one
>>was bragging about it) spearheaded
>>making planes illegal to scout
>>with from Aug 1-Jan 1
>>they would be more than
>>happy with that.
>
>Once again, a keyboard hero who
>gets it wrong. First, it
>was the G&F idea for
>dates specific. Second, it's Aug
>1-Jan 31st. How funny is
>it now?


Its still funny. So my google fu showed Jan 1 as the end date the first place I looked. Its still funny how you guys puff up your chests that you got the rule changed. Yet its still legal.

You guys are up in arms about a guy burning boot leather and finding animals. Doesn't matter when. Yet guys are still able to fly until the end of July. Who has an advantage? What did you really stop? You and buzz act like you are 7' tall when you type yet you won't take on the big dogs cause you know you will get crushed.

Again read the story about "Snag" and tell me how that hunter didn't have a bigger advantage than any of the guys founder has helped? Until you guys try and get outfitting shutdown also I will continue thinking you are two wanna be's that only attack little things that you think you might have a chance of changing. That way you can get on the net and stretch out to your full 7' and start typing.

Just like you two on the point sharing thread. It doesn't affect you at all if guys share and get to hunt every year. But because of two guys you will help get that changed. Then for Buzz to point out the unit another guy hunts is just childish. It honestly looks like jealousy. "He gets to hunt it every year but I don't so I'm going to stop him." You two are a friggin joke. If you ever do something note worthy let me know. Until then keep stretching out to your full 7' when you get on the internet. Keep attacking the little guy so the big players, (outfitters) get all the advantage and even commercialize wildlife more.
 

Similar threads

gr8fuldoug
Athlon Winners Chosen - Enter to Win a Pulsar Thermal
Replies
0
Views
98
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug
Industry News and Updates
Replies
0
Views
199
gr8fuldoug
gr8fuldoug

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

IMG_1811 (1).jpg
IMG_0231.jpeg
F8C820A0-C1C5-496C-9227-7D95303B59F0.jpeg
DCB904DE-A8B2-4CC6-9A22-B0943A26416F.png
98591266-98D4-4CD9-ADA5-90B01597870A.jpeg
Screenshot_20220826-092740.png
DSC_2906iiv sm.jpg
Colorado Bull
1975hunting1.jpg
DSCN5357ism.jpg
91BAD1FD-081C-4A9D-AFCA-E8F62B907B64.jpeg
1278802F-3DF1-4CAA-9E4F-477D1245B801.jpeg

Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Badger Creek Outfitters

Offering elk, deer and pronghorn hunts on several privately owned ranches.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, and moose in Wyoming.


Yellowstone Horse Rentals - Western Wyoming Horses
Back
Top Bottom