How Does a Non-Resident Hunt Wilderness?

excavator

Active Member
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I know a non-resident is supposed to be guided to be able to hunt in a Wyoming wilderness, but do they have to be fully guided? For example, can a non-resident do a drop camp in a wilderness through a "guide" or some sort of semi-guided hunt to satisfy the requirements. Does anybody have any input or experience with this?

Excavator
 
NO and NO to both parts of your question, we can not hunt on our own in the wilderness. Now, if you have relatives that live in WY and are RESIDENTS, one of them can take you and HE/SHE stays the whole time, it is legal.
This is an old probably that is not going away too soon and WE have to live with it.

Brian
http://i25.tinypic.com/fxbjgy.jpg[/IMG]
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-11 AT 12:43PM (MST)[p]Doesnt have to be a resident relative...even a friend who is a WY resident can sign off for 2 NR hunters a year.
 
I found the regulation regarding this, and it is consistent with what you guys are saying. I believe it uses the term "accompanied" by a guide or registered Wyoming resident. It appears there is not a lot of wiggle room here, and that "accompanied" by pretty much means with you or in the immediate vicinity of you at all times.

Pretty much sucks for a non-resident DIY guy that likes to get away from people and hunt wilderness areas.

Excavator
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-11 AT 04:38PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-11 AT 04:36?PM (MST)

I hate to beat a dead horse, but does anyone know the reasoning behind this law? I know everyone has their opinions on this, but i'd just like to know why 'they' made this rule? Is it for the safety of us inept, incompetent DIY non-residents? Or is it to give the residents and outfitters a place to get away from us inept, incompetent DIY non-residents?
 
You'll find varying ideas on why? That non resident hikers and fishermen can roam at will indicates it is not a safety issue. More likely some politicking by the outfitter's association in the past. I'm a Wyoming resident and think it is ludicrous.
 
>Or is it to give
>the residents and outfitters a
>place to get away from
>us inept, incompetent DIY non-residents?

That's not a bad thought. However it was done strickly for money. The outfitter industry spent a boat load of money years ago lobbying our legislative reps to get this law passed. The chance of it being changed is zero and none...
 
Thats exactly what I was thinking. Though it doesn't sit quite right with me, I can see where the outfitters would be in favor of it. It would be bad for business, if they took their clients up on expensive guided hunts, only to have to compete with a bunch of out of state diy hunters in all their sweet spots. I still don't like it.
 
i haven't hunted in any areas of Wyoming with wilderness since the 1980s, but I remember a freind from Minnesota telling me he hunted wilderness by himself, and damned near challenged the Game and Fish to cite him. He wanted to fight the law in court, and couldn't get cited.
 
I'm interested. What is the penalty for a NR hunting in a Wilderness area? Also, has anyone heard of a NR cited for hunting in a wilderness area?
 
>I'm interested. What is the
>penalty for a NR hunting
>in a Wilderness area?
>Also, has anyone heard of
>a NR cited for hunting
>in a wilderness area?


Really? Your debating on breaking the law and wanting to know if the cost is worth the crime? I hope I am wrong but the questions dont sound right.
 
Never said I am planning on doing it. I have never broken a hunting law, let alone got a speeding ticket. I am just simply interested in the penalty for such a crime.

To me it seems like a ridiculous law created to benefit the outfitters. I personally have never hear of anyone being cited for the crime. Either non residents don't ever enter the wilderness or the fish and game don't prosecute.
 
Good Question. I would also like to know how many people have been cited and the cost.
 
I don't know how many have been cited, and the cost probably varies, I do know that its been challenged a couple of times in court by those that have been caught, and they lost. It would be expensive to make trips to Wyoming if you were cited and didn't challenge the ticket,and very very expensive if you did. I know many outfitters would turn nonresidents in for breaking that law, and some resident hunters would also, in fact I probably would make an effort to turn lawbreakers in if they were in my favorite spot hunting illegally.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-11 AT 11:30AM (MST)[p]We turned some non rezi's in, in 61 a few years ago. We pointed the rangers in the direction we last saw them and they rode off on horse back looking for them. Last year when we were up in the wilderness we ran into a Wyoming resident guiding two non rezi's. One of the guys I was with recognized the guy and said that guys a guide and had been cited for guiding non rezi's without a license or something to that effect. Mighta been legal, but we called that one in too.
 
Max penalties are $1000, 6 months in jail and revocation of hunting rights for up to 3 years, however, I doubt that anyone would get hit that hard by a judge....I heard most get about $200.00 fine.
 
A lot of people don't know this but states lack jurisdiction to regulate such a law on federal land. If you receive this ticket and contest it in federal court, it WILL be overturned and dismissed. States have the authority to regulate the management of fish/game, but not the authority to mandate people having to have a guide just due to their state of residency on FEDERAL land. They have no legitimate basis to substantiate this law other than outfitter politics.
 
A lot of people don't know this but states lack jurisdiction to regulate such a law on federal land. If you receive this ticket and contest it in federal court, it WILL be overturned and dismissed. States have the authority to regulate the management of fish/game, but not the authority to mandate people having to have a guide just due to their state of residency on FEDERAL land. They have no legitimate basis to substantiate this law other than outfitter politics.
 
Show me how you can take the issuance of a ticket for that violation all the way to the Federal level to have it heard when it's heard at the County District Court level. You may be able to do it if you have a ton of money and kee[ appealing it to the next level, but I doubt it would go as far as you're saying. The law itself has been contested by a hunter and the state won, but I can't remember which court made the ruling.
 
Ask yourself these two questions, who has the primary governing and law enforcement authority of the land the violation was committed in?? And next, does this law have to do with game management? The Feds have authority of Federal land and they also can't enforce state laws. The state cannot enforce a law that does not expressly correlate to game management on federal land. As you know, one of the few powers granted to states regarding federal land is the management of fish and game and requiring a guide to hunt big game ONLY is obviously discriminative and has no basis. This process would not cost people any money, pay the fine initially and go to court at the county level. Request the violation be dismissed on the basis that the state of Wyoming lacks jurisdiction to impose this law on Federal Land and lacks any reasonable basis for it's cause. That will be the end of the road on this ticket.
 
Well come on out and violate the law next year. Let me know where yer hunting and I'll be glad to turn you in. You can then fight the ticket. Let us know how that works for ya...
 
The State can tell you when, where, how, and what to hunt, regardless of who owns the land... private, state, federal, etc.
 
I agree with ya Appaloosa, the state has givin the nonresident the right to hunt by giving them a elk tag for example. But they cannot mandate a guide be required solely based on being a nonresident. They have no sound basis to establish that requirement nor due they have that authority. Having a guide in NO way ties into game management. This is expressly implied by the example that a fly fisherman can fish and camp in federal wilderness all elk season fishing and needs no guide. Let's face it, when the right person challenges this law and appeals to the proper authority if need be, the precedent will be set and this discriminatory law is a goner. I love WY, but this law is political BS and I look forward to its defeat.
 
I believe the Wyoming state court has ruled before, and the law was upheld. I guess then we will be able to hunt dall sheep and brown bears in AK without a guide, after all you don't need a guide to fish.
 
Sorry to say it packmule, but you are full of mule dodo on this issue, LOL! It's been taken to the higher state courts and upheld like BuzzH and I mentioned. Like it or not, this is a law that isn't going away soon and the same for the AK law mentioned by piper. What you are espousing has been tested in court and if you want to be the next to test it, then take up the offer and let us know when and what wilderness area you'll be in next season. We'll do the rest for ya, LOL! By the way, when you enter a not guilty plea are you going to defend yourself all the way to conclusion? If that is your intent, or if you hire a bigshot lawyer to present your arguments that don't hold water, I hope you are independently wealthy!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 09:48AM (MST)[p]Packmule...I'm a Wyoming resident and I'm not a fan of the Wilderness guide law.

That said, you need to catch up with the times. All states have the right to discriminate against NR hunters...via SB339, which passed a few years ago.

You can whine, cry, and carry on all you want...take it to court and you're toast.


S 339 IS



109th CONGRESS

1st Session

S. 339

To reaffirm the authority of States to regulate certain hunting and fishing activities.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES


February 9, 2005

Mr. REID (for himself, Mr. BAUCUS, Mr. STEVENS, Mr. NELSON of Nebraska, and Mr. ENSIGN) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary

(See this link http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:S.339: )



History behind the legislation:

Congress was given the power to regulate interstate commerce by Article I of the Constitution. This power to regulate has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court to also give Congress the power to regulate activities which negatively impact interstate commerce, commonly referred to as the ?negative? or ?dormant Commerce Clause.?

The Court has cited the dormant Commerce Clause when denying the states the power to unjustifiably discriminate against or burden the interstate flow of articles of commerce. If a state regulation has a substantial effect on interstate commerce, then the subject matter of the state regulation, which could be regulated by Congress under the Commerce Clause, becomes subject to the dormant Commerce Clause.

Congress does have the power to specifically exempt a state regulated activity from the dormant Commerce Clause. In 1890, when the Supreme Court decided that the regulation of alcoholic beverages lay beyond the reach of the states, Congress promptly overrode that decision with the Webb-Kenyon Act. Thereafter, the Court upheld Congress? authority to commit the regulation of liquor imports to state authority.

Motivation for legislation:

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals recently concluded that a state recreational hunting regulation substantially affects interstate commerce such that the dormant Commerce Clause applies and ruled that state laws that distinguish between state residents and non-residents for the purpose of affording hunting and related privileges are constitutionally suspect.

Although the Ninth Circuit found the purposes of such regulation to be sound, the Court questioned the validity of tag limits for non-resident hunters.

The Ninth Circuit ruling has spawned litigation in other states, and several pending lawsuits threaten each state?s wildlife regulatory authority.

What the Bill Would Do:

The bill creates an exemption to the dormant Commerce Clausein order to give each state the right to regulate access to hunting and fishing. This is done by renunciation of federal interest in regulating hunting and fishing. The reasons for creating this exception include the following:


Allowing states to distinguish and/or discriminate between residents and non-residents ensures the protection of state wildlife and protects resident hunting and fishing opportunities.



Protecting the public interest of individual states? conservation efforts. Sportsmen and local organizations are extremely active in the conservation of fish and game. They support wildlife conservation through taxes, fees, and locally led non-profit conservation efforts.



Respecting the traditional authority of individual states. The regulation of wildlife has traditionally been within a state?s purview. It is in the best interest of the state and federal governments to ensure that states retain the authority to regulate wildlife.




END
 

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