https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-shooting-death-provo-utah/

hossblur

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
10,546
Don't shoot at cops if you want to be undead.

But isn't the Secret Service the agency that handles political threats?
 
abcnews.go.com

Man killed during FBI raid in connection with threats against Biden, other officials

The raid was in connection with an investigation into alleged threats against President Joe Biden and others, according to two officials briefed on the case.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

let's give it a week to see which mm member has disappeared.....

"But isn't the Secret Service the agency that handles political threats?"......Uh....not when the suspect needs killing quick
 
He Made A Threat I Guess?

Sounds Like He Got LaVoyed!

Homer said:
abcnews.go.com

Man killed during FBI raid in connection with threats against Biden, other officials

The raid was in connection with an investigation into alleged threats against President Joe Biden and others, according to two officials briefed on the case.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com

let's give it a week to see which mm member has disappeared.....

"But isn't the Secret Service the agency that handles political threats?"......Uh....not when the suspect needs killing quick
Click to expand...
 
Back in the Obama years, a guy that lives two blocks to the south of me had the FBI show up on his doorstep investigation of threats on President Obama. Come to find out, there was a kid that lived in the valley that would wander the streets and find the homes that had not protected their internet, and he was the one that made the threat.
The FBI told the guy that Utah was one of the leading states for threats against Obama.
 
I'm Surprised They Didn't LaVoy The Guy That Didn't Do It!

notdonhunting said:
Back in the Obama years, a guy that lives two blocks to the south of me had the FBI show up on his doorstep investigation of threats on President Obama. Come to find out, there was a kid that lived in the valley that would wander the streets and find the homes that had not protected their internet, and he was the one that made the threat.
The FBI told the guy that Utah was one of the leading states for threats against Obama.
Click to expand...
 
Heard an interview with his neighbor.

Dude was 5'4, over 300, couldn't get out of a chair. The FBI had checked him months ago, so they already knew he physically couldn't do anything.

They drove the tank through his front window.

Hate to say it, but first thing in morning someone crashing through my window I'm pulling a gun.

Seems like just maybe this was overkill?


Dude had a blind son who he cared for that had stroke last week and was in care facility.

Doesn't mean I support threatening pres, but seems like perhaps the tank was overkill?
 
This was nothing more than an assassination. The guy while being an idiot was elderly, in poor shape, had to walk with a cane...

For years we have heard about the de-escalation of situations, etc. There literally were a dozen different ways to take this man into custody. But the FBI chose the most aggressive and the most likely way to end in blood shed. Furthermore, it appears that a flash grenade set off outside the residence was the start of the gun fire?

Lastly should we just consider the action under the previous administration. We had an actress posing with the decapitated head of the president, we had Johnny Depp come out and say it was time another actor killed a president, and a ton more... The FBI did not raid any of those...

I also question why was this the FBI and not the secret service. The only answer is the FBI is out of control and turned into the left Gestapo
 
I'm surprised the Biden FBI didn't just launch a drone strike on his house. That would send the strongest message.
 
hossblur said:
Heard an interview with his neighbor.

Dude was 5'4, over 300, couldn't get out of a chair. The FBI had checked him months ago, so they already knew he physically couldn't do anything.

They drove the tank through his front window.

Hate to say it, but first thing in morning someone crashing through my window I'm pulling a gun.

Seems like just maybe this was overkill?


Dude had a blind son who he cared for that had stroke last week and was in care facility.
Click to expand...


hossblur said:
Doesn't mean I support threatening pres, but seems like perhaps the tank was overkill?
Click to expand...
You Mean Kinda Like The Guy That Had 20 WHOPPIN Pounds Of Explosives And They Had To Detonate It & Then They Knocked The House Down!

Na!

That Ain't Overkill!

Na!

That Ain't Over-Reach!

At It's F'N Best!
 
elks96 said:
This was nothing more than an assassination. The guy while being an idiot was elderly, in poor shape, had to walk with a cane...

For years we have heard about the de-escalation of situations, etc. There literally were a dozen different ways to take this man into custody. But the FBI chose the most aggressive and the most likely way to end in blood shed. Furthermore, it appears that a flash grenade set off outside the residence was the start of the gun fire?

Lastly should we just consider the action under the previous administration. We had an actress posing with the decapitated head of the president, we had Johnny Depp come out and say it was time another actor killed a president, and a ton more... The FBI did not raid any of those...

I also question why was this the FBI and not the secret service. The only answer is the FBI is out of control and turned into the left Gestapo
Click to expand...
Let’s not forget Madona who threatened to bomb the White House.
 
When will the bodycam video be released? Couldn't they have arrested the 75 year old 300 lb man at the grocery store? All just Mar alago theatrics.
 
Congrats fbi, you shot an old fat decrepit senior citizen in a pre-dawn tactical breach. Couldn't possibly have arrested him peacefully outside during daylight hours... riiiiiiight
 
This guy sums it up quite well.

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TimOnPoint

@TimOnPoint

There were a hundred different ways to do this that would NOT result in a loss of life and no need to drag his body out to the sidewalk to show the world. Pull yourself back from your political alignment if possible and consider the following:1) The FBI had Robertson under investigation for months. His stupid bluster on FB was known for months. An investigation, a real investigation, would establish a pattern of life: when he goes to church, when he goes to the store, etc. A real investigation would interview the people around him. This is 1st-grade detective work. If you determine that the guy is a threat, you follow him to the store, casually wait outside, and wrap him up as he leaves with his hands full of groceries. People present these low-intensity opportunities every day.2) Why the FBI? Why not local law enforcement? I'm betting a large portion of the local LE is Mormon, same church and same church elders also. IF the guy is such a threat, why not approach him through someone close? Again, why the FBI? This is the same FBI that ran a pre-dawn, tactical raid against Mark Houck and his family for protesting in front of an abortion clinic in Pennsylvania after local and state authorities decided to bring no charges - another demonstration of power - a Catholic conservative that time - another object lesson from the DOJ.3) Before every tactical action, there should be a point by point risk evaluation. This wasn't (I hope) an on-the-fly operation, there wasn't a crime in process. This was planned. What kind of risk is considered? The basics are as follows: the agents, other supporting officers and technical staff, Craig Robertson of-course, and bystanders. When you breach a structure, WHEN YOU BREACH A PRIVATE HOUSE, in the dark with breaching tools, weapons, and flash-crashes, you instantly put the assault team and Craig at maximum risk. You put the neighbors at very high risk also depending on what the house is built out of - bullets go through walls. Even frangible rounds can go through walls and windows. When you plan an op, you're supposed to pick the lowest risk course of action that still provides success. This was the highest risk course of action, and unless the mission was a kill/capture rather than capture, the mission was a failure also. SOMEBODY MADE THAT RISK DECISION or they had specific orders to execute the mission one way only.4) Why did they wait so long? His crimes were known months ago. When you wait until the last minute, assuming that there's a real threat, you remove choices, you remove better courses of action.5) Why pre-dawn? If you are breaching and entering after a surreptitious approach, there is a chance you can wrap up your target before they blink their eyes, that's good tactics. It looks like they woke him first, they woke him violently. People make bad decisions when they are scared awake. Why? Because they're still 90% asleep. If someone smashes through your door at maximum escalation, what's your first action. What your first instinctive action - RATIONAL ACTIONS DON'T HAPPEN AT O-DARK THIRTY. A good cop knows this. A bad cop knows this also. If they f-d up their approach (a real possibility), it's the FBI's responsibility for what happens next. 6) I've seen hundreds of comments like, "why didn't he comply?" First, read (5) again. Second, how much time did they give him to comply? It takes time for a rational thought to work through - especially when you're mostly asleep, mostly immobile, and you have bright lights in your eyes - a tactical flashlight blinds a person completely. The chances of identifying yourself while someone is blind is zero. Then there's the flash-crash deployment...7) A flash crash doesn't knock someone out (it might if it's really close). A flash-crash doesn't make someone drop a weapon either. It stuns them in their tracks for a brief moment - dazzles them. A flash-crash is an offensive tool used to gain a brief advantage. A crash also makes someone completely incapable of complying.8) What's the mission of an assault team? Why do we have assault teams, SWAT teams, etc. in American law enforcement? Think about this. It's a certain kind of guy who goes through the door for a certain type of mission. They like the action, the adrenaline, they're excited by the thought of putting someone down in the line of duty. Don't get me wrong, they're well trained and professional at what they do. I was that guy. What makes it work is wise leadership, someone who knows when it's time to let the dogs run OR to grab them by the collar and pull them back. Wise leadership doesn't get enthralled by the action, they stand apart - especially with other Americans at risk, this isn't AQ. Wise leadership asks questions before going out the door.9) Was he really a threat? My inclination says no - he's an obese invalid who was also a caretaker of someone else - had reason to live. Did his profile, built through the excellent "months long" investigation with interviews of the people who know him, his pattern of life, etc., really say that he was a threat? If yes, then why did they wait for months? But let's say he was for a moment.10) Was he an immediate threat? Was Craig Robertson an immediate threat to the President of the United States? We know the answer, it's no.11) Who ran the immediate post-action investigation, the FBI? Worried about this.12) What escalated this particular action beyond all of the other daily threats against the president? Either this was different or the criteria were changed. What was it?13) Why this guy? MAGA, religious, white, loudmouth, very easy for half the country to hate these days... there will be no ANTIFA riots over killing this citizen in his living room.14) Did the FBI have agents or informants engaging with him? Face-to-face? If so, why did they wait? Possibilities: informants, informants that he has a relationship with (this is the one that could improve the FBI's position), undercover agents.15) Did local law enforcement defer to the FBI? What were the conditions and timeline?16) To go this far, they must of had his communications monitored. It would be stunning to think they went this far over FB posts alone. There's probably more.Details will slowly be trickled out, some legit, others suspect. The FBI will be written as the heroes and politicians and their media drones will be "outraged" and "offended" that people like me doubt the need for this killing. Local law enforcement will remain as low profile as possible because they have professional relationships to maintain. Know this - the FBI killed an American citizen in his own home when they absolutely didn't need to. Last time I checked this was a non-partisan expectation of all law enforcement. I have another theory of why they chose this route (not what you think it is), but I'm going to sit on it for awhile.
 
Threaten the president then point a gun in the direction of the FBI bullies who show-up to arrest you? Play stupid games and get stupid prizes.

Yawn.....

BTW, that post from Wetmule made me laugh. "This guy sums it up...." Huh?? THAT single paragraph rambling statement is a summery??? :ROFLMAO:
 
azhunteraz said:
Threaten the president then point a gun in the direction of the FBI bullies who show-up to arrest you? Play stupid games and get stupid prizes.

Yawn.....

BTW, that post from Wetmule made me laugh. "This guy sums it up...." Huh?? THAT single paragraph rambling statement is a summery??? :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
What part made you laugh??....
 
azhunteraz said:
Threaten the president then point a gun in the direction of the FBI bullies who show-up to arrest you? Play stupid games and get stupid prizes.

Yawn.....

BTW, that post from Wetmule made me laugh. "This guy sums it up...." Huh?? THAT single paragraph rambling statement is a summery??? :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Surely even you can realize that not everything copies and paste the right way?

But again this was clearly an escalation that was not needed and the DBI went there with full intent to kill this person.

It was about sending a message, it was not about safety or justice…
 
Homer said:
What part made you laugh??....
Click to expand...
The thing that amused me was that it was billed as a 'summary', but didn't appear to be a summary at all. Like to me, a summary is just a few sentences or bullet points, etc.

Just amused me a bit. Internet fodder.... No big thing, and no offence intended to anyone.
 
elks96 said:
Surely even you can realize that not everything copies and paste the right way?

But again this was clearly an escalation that was not needed and the DBI went there with full intent to kill this person.

It was about sending a message, it was not about safety or justice…
Click to expand...
hossblur said:
Little different. They didn't exactly shoot Lavoy sitting in a chair AT HIS HOUSE
Click to expand...

elks96, regarding it being an escalation that was not needed, not too sure about that. Did you read all of the background? They went to visit him last spring about some crap he was saying. He then posted about having a loaded gun ready if the FBI ever stopped by again. :rolleyes:

I didn't see anything about them shooting him in a chair, hoss. Source?

Again, my feeling on this is if you want to be a dumb dumb and play stupid games (including making threats and pointing guns at people), you might get shot. Happens all the time.

 
azhunteraz said:
elks96, regarding it being an escalation that was not needed, not too sure about that. Did you read all of the background? They went to visit him last spring about some crap he was saying. He then posted about having a loaded gun ready if the FBI ever stopped by again. :rolleyes:

I didn't see anything about them shooting him in a chair, hoss. Source?

Again, my feeling on this is if you want to be a dumb dumb and play stupid games (including making threats and pointing guns at people), you might get shot. Happens all the time.

Click to expand...


His neighbor said he struggled getting out of his chair. I don't disagree, point a gun at a cop, you reaped the whirlwind.


BUT, hitting his house they way they did, and for no good reason, of course he would pull his gun. "FBI" ain't exactly something yelled that would make me stand down until I saw a warrant
 
hossblur said:
His neighbor said he struggled getting out of his chair. I don't disagree, point a gun at a cop, you reaped the whirlwind.


BUT, hitting his house they way they did, and for no good reason, of course he would pull his gun. "FBI" ain't exactly something yelled that would make me stand down until I saw a warrant
Click to expand...

So his neighbor saying he struggled getting out of his chair is equal to 'they shot him in his chair...'? Ummm..... Also, I respectfully disagree with in your "...for no good reason..." comment. The dude made what they determined to be a credible threat to the POTUS. I would say that is hardly "no good reason...".

Orange Man or Skeletor, or whoever the POTUS is.... Can't make threats like that and expect to not get a visit. ;)
 
azhunteraz said:
So his neighbor saying he struggled getting out of his chair is equal to 'they shot him in his chair...'? Ummm..... Also, I respectfully disagree with in your "...for no good reason..." comment. The dude made what they determined to be a credible threat to the POTUS. I would say that is hardly "no good reason...".

Orange Man or Skeletor, or whoever the POTUS is.... Can't make threats like that and expect to not get a visit. ;)
Click to expand...
We get it...you aren't bothered by state sponsored assassinations of right wingers....
 
azhunteraz said:
So his neighbor saying he struggled getting out of his chair is equal to 'they shot him in his chair...'? Ummm..... Also, I respectfully disagree with in your "...for no good reason..." comment. The dude made what they determined to be a credible threat to the POTUS. I would say that is hardly "no good reason...".

Orange Man or Skeletor, or whoever the POTUS is.... Can't make threats like that and expect to not get a visit. ;)
Click to expand...
Getting a visit is totally different that a militarized assault on a residence in the early morning. Sorry but there was no reason to perform a military raid of his residence. There are a ton of different options that were available. The FBI chose the most aggressive action and the action that was the most likely to end poorly.

Sorry but it was done the wrong way.
 
azhunteraz said:
So his neighbor saying he struggled getting out of his chair is equal to 'they shot him in his chair...'? Ummm..... Also, I respectfully disagree with in your "...for no good reason..." comment. The dude made what they determined to be a credible threat to the POTUS. I would say that is hardly "no good reason...".

Orange Man or Skeletor, or whoever the POTUS is.... Can't make threats like that and expect to not get a visit. ;)
Click to expand...

"Visit"

He got a "visit", in the spring, he told them to come back with a warrant.


Then on the day Biden is in town they drive through his window at 6 in the morning. Not a visit. They escalated the conflict, AND, because the FBI swat team isn't required to wear body cams, it's whatever they say. It's not coincidence that the first images pushed out into media were of a guy in a guille suit with a rifle. Almost as if they needed to create a narrative.




But, I don't remember the FBI driving through Kathy Griffiths front window, and I'd wager her on camera holding a headless bleeding Trump head, is a threat.

I don't remember them smashing Johnny Depp's house when he wondered aloud how long it has been since an actor killed a president.

So, why not? If you threaten a president, you deserve it, then why didn't they deserve it?

I'm all for don't pull a cop on a gun. You deserve dead.

But, the list is long of dudes the FBI had provoked into conflict, then killed.

I promise, if I drive through YOUR front wall at 6, your pulling a gun, I am.
 
I can answer a couple of those questions-

1. They are democrats so it’s ok
2. It was against Trump so …see #1

Have you noticed the biggest hypocrites are the dems.

A segment of news clips was put together of politicians and the msm from back in 2016 where they all were complaining of Trump using the DOJ to persecute his political opponents and turning this country into a banana republic….oh how times have changed.
 
hossblur said:
His neighbor said he struggled getting out of his chair. I don't disagree, point a gun at a cop, you reaped the whirlwind.
Click to expand...

Ya!

They Said LaVoy MADE THE REACH!

Yup!

As He Was Getting This Shhit Shot Out Of Him!


hossblur said:
BUT, hitting his house they way they did, and for no good reason, of course he would pull his gun. "FBI" ain't exactly something yelled that would make me stand down until I saw a warrant
Click to expand...
 
I Ain't Trying To Make a Point!

I've Done Made The Point!

Now If We Could Just Get It To Sink In To Your THICK F'N Scull!



hossblur said:
Lavoy was in Oregon occupying land, little different.

You want to use Ruby Ridge to make the point you're trying g to make
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
I Ain't Trying To Make a Point!

I've Done Made The Point!

Now If We Could Just Get It To Sink In To Your THICK F'N Scull!
Click to expand...

If you take over a preserve with arms, then decide to run, it's on you to keep your hands out of your jacket. Sorry man, I know you e spent years trying, but Lavoy wasn't Vickie Weaver. I've seen the video, I would of shot him too.

Lavoy went looking for trouble. Trouble came for this dude.
 

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