Hybrid Draw

[backpacker]

Does anyone know if it's possible for a NR to draw one of these tags or if any NRs have in the past? Or is the NR quota always reached through the regular draw? I don't plan on hunting in CO this year but was wondering if I actually have a chance in the hybrid draw (regardless of the miniscule percentage), or if I should just put in for a point.

Thanks.

 

[DW]

Depends on the unit. Units with low tag numbers or high pp, non res caps are usually met in the regular draw. Page 7 of the brochure.

 

[sticksender]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-21-17 AT 06:42PM (MST)[p]No it is not possible in the Deer & Elk draws because the NR ceiling is always met in the first pass of the draw.

Only in the Pronghorn draw can NR draw in the Hybrid, and there have been some Hybrid NR Pronghorn tags awarded in the past. There is no NR ceiling for pronghorn licenses.

 

[backpacker]

That's what I figured, thanks.

 

[COLOelkman]

The way I read the regs, R and NR are all eligible and the "ceiling" has no bearing on the Hybrid tags. All the Hybrid units will have high demand and both R and NR ceilings are always met. The Hybrid tags (up to 20%) are issued randomly to applicants with 5 or more preference points, thus it seems to me that anyone can draw these tags regardless of R or NR status? The exception would be for RFW tags which only go to R's. Please correct me if I am wrong!

 

[DW]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-17 AT 09:48AM (MST)[p]From page 7 read the part in parentheses and just before.


To expand quality opportunities to big-game hunters, the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission of-fers a ?hybrid? drawing for select elk, deer, pronghorn and bear licenses. The purpose of the draw is to give hunters additional opportunity to draw a license for some of the state?s premier deer, elk, pronghorn and bear hunting areas. Hunters who normally would not have enough preference points to draw these licenses now have a slight chance to draw a small number of the most coveted licenses through this process. Nonresident caps apply. (Units with low numbers of available licenses may not have any remaining for the Hybrid Drawing.)HUNTER QUALIFICATIONSQualified hunters wishing to partici-pate in the Hybrid Draw must meet the following criteria and choose from the hunt codes listed at right as their first choice on their application.1. Hunters must have a minimum of five preference points for the spe-cies they wish to hunt to partici-pate in the Hybrid Drawing.2. Hunters must apply individu-ally; group applications are not accepted.3. Hunt codes that contain a ?W? are Ranching for Wildlife proper-ties. These hunts are for Colorado residents only.ELK ? HYBRID DRAW HUNT CODESDEER ? HYBRID DRAW HUNT CODESPRONGHORN ? HYBRID DRAW HUNT CODESNOTE: There are no qualifying hybrid draw hunts for bear in 2017.]?HYBRID DRAWINGELK, DEER, PRONGHORN]HOW IT WORKSIn hunt codes that require 10 or more resident preference points to draw (based on a 3-year average ending with the 2009 drawing), up to 20 percent of the available licenses may be issued through a random drawing. Qualified resident and nonresident hunters who select applicable hunt codes (listed at right) and have at least five preference points for that species will automatically enter the Hybrid Drawing.? These hunt codes must be entered as your first choice on your application.? Winning applicants in the Hybrid Drawing will be selected randomly.? Hunters who successfully draw a license in the Hybrid Drawing lose all of their preference points for that species. Unsuccessful applicants will be awarded one point.

 

[COLOelkman]

Not sure of your point DW. I understand some units won't have any Hybrid tags but for those with tags available, R or NR have the same chance to draw since they are selected randomly and there is no ceiling. I understood this is what the OP was asking about?

 

[DW]

This paragraph was seperated, didn't carry over well in cut-n-paste.


Nonresident caps apply. (Units with low numbers of available licenses may not have any remaining for the Hybrid Drawing.)

 

[DW]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-17 AT 09:59AM (MST)[p]I read it as units with low tag numbers (virtually every deer and elk hybrid hunt code) may not have any non res tags in the Hybrid Draw as the cap is met in the regular draw. Maybe I'm wrong, it happened once before!

 

[COLOelkman]

As I read it, the Hybrid tags are not R or NR specific and since they are drawn randomly, that gives anyone that qualifies an equal chance regardless or R or NR.

 

[backpacker]

I inquired with the guys at gohunt and they were of the same mindset (that all the caps are met as well). Here was the reply:

"You bring up a good point, one that we have discussed internally. The odds from the 5 to 21 point level reflect the odds of drawing a permit in the hybrid draw. However, if you read the CPW regulations it states "Nonresident caps apply, units with low numbers of available licenses may not have any remaining for the Hybrid Drawing". The hybrid draw is conducted after the regular draw and as such the quota's are being met for non-resident tags prior to the hybrid draw. We have reviewed the draw recap reports and have not seen where a non-resident was awarded a tag through the hybrid drawing for the quality deer and elk hunts. There are residents drawing in the hybrid draw.

There have been instances where antelope tags have been drawn by non-residents, due to the fact that there is no resident/non-resident quota split.

So, take home message is that you can never totally predict what applicants will do from year to year but I do feel quite confident that for those hunts there is not going to be a permit available in the hybrid draw unless they change something in the future."

Initially I just wanted to know if there was an actual chance to draw one as a NR since their odds from 5-21 NR points for a specific unit show a 2% chance but they had odds calculated based on a how many people applied for the tags, even though a deer/elk tag was never actually issued to a NR the last 2 years.

 

[DW]

The only deer/elk anomaly I saw was unit 66 4th rifle buck. I don't know why but 2 nonresidents drew with high points and 1 drew with only 10 with plenty of nonres applicants with more pp than 10. The only 1 I can't explain.

 

[COLOelkman]

Isn't it a possibility that because there are relatively few hybrid tags available, and if the number of R apps are significantly more than the NR apps, it would stand to reason that it's more likely the R's would draw the hybrid tag. I've not looked at the numbers but if R apps are 5 times greater than NR apps that would be in the hybrid drawing, the R's have a 5x greater chance to draw. Perhaps someone that has looked more closely at the numbers might chime in. Seems like hybrid tags are certainly a bit of a wild card because if the CPW decides to reduce the number of tags issues based on pop. estimates, those applying for and hoping for a hybrid tag could be applying in a unit that will have no hybrid tags available in the drawing.
Just my opinion but if you are going to apply just to get a point, why not apply for a unit where you may have a shot at a hybrid tag and hope you're the lucky one and save many years of waiting?

 

[backpacker]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-24-17 AT 01:16PM (MST)[p]COLO,
That was the initial thought but like DW said, there was only that small anomaly for those units. I'm not really too concerned as I was just looking at it as sort of another raffle tag opportunity anyway (small risk, big reward).

 

[sticksender]

NR are not given their own allocation of tags in the deer/elk draws, and can only draw tags by preference in any specific hunt code if they have preference point superiority to the residents who applied. Due to point creep over the years, in actual practice, more than enough NR's apply in all the high-demand hunt codes who have PP superiority over resident applicants. Thus, NR applicants will always meet the NR allocation ceiling in the regular part of the public draw. Therefore NR cannot draw any tags in the Hybrid portion of the public draw because by rule, NR are not allowed to exceed the 20% allocation ceiling.

What appears to be anomalies in the regular portion of the draw, usually is caused by group applicants. Say the NR ceiling is 3 tags for a particular hunt code. And the first 2 tags go to the highest point holders. The final tag cannot go to any group applicant because there is only one tag left. So the tag keeps dropping down through the next lower point classes until a single applicant is found who did not apply as a group. I don't know if this was the case for the Unit 66 4th rifle applicant cited above, or if it was something else, or a mistake. If curious enough, you could always ask the supervisor of the licensing department, they are usually very helpful.

 

[DW]

Just quickly goin thru the stats there were 38 non rfw hybrid deer or elk tags total. In each hunt code non res caps were met with only the 1 unit as noted above having a tag go to a nonres with less pp's than many other nonres applicants in that unit. No units exceeded the non res cap number.

 

[LoneWati]

Maybe someone can help me out as I can't figure out how they decipher the Hybrid hunt code as it is the same code if you are not putting in for the Hybrid.This just makes it a random draw after 5 points if you ask me. Is there a box one would check that states Hybrid draw?

 

[nripepi]

It had to have been a hybrid tag in 66 4th go to a non-resident or a resident with 17 points would have drawn the tag over a non resident with 10!

The reason is because so many residents with high points applied and the non-resident quota ceiling of 20% was not met, that 3rd possible tags for a NR went to a resident with 18 points vs. a non-res with 17.

It was just luck that the non resident drew, but when they did they were at the 20%. 3 / 15 = 20%

 

[sticksender]

nripepi- Looking at the stats for that hunt code I think you are correct. A rare instance where NR demand was lower than resident demand.

 

[nripepi]

LAST EDITED ON Apr-06-17 AT 02:38PM (MST)[p]Doesn't happen often! Lucky guy with 10 points. Wonder if he got a big one?

 

[COLOelkman]

LoneWati - I assume this issue didn't matter since the post was after the app deadline, but for clarification.....There is not a separate code for hybrid tags. You put in for the units that have those tags potentially available as on P. 7 in the regs. As I understand it, the drawing would first draw the normal preference point tags, then all others would go in the random hybrid tag draw subject to the NR, R quotas as discussed. Someone can correct me if this is not correct.

 

[LoneWati]

That makes sense now. I thought they were using the codes on pg 7 to actually let people put in for a Hybrid draw but they will be automatically be put in if they have at least 5 points since the codes are the same. They are just letting people know which codes actually have a hybrid available!! Thank you!