Help me understand....So the latest IDFG news release shows for the Sawtooth Zone a lot of unhappy residents unable to get tags. According to their numbers they sold out of tags in less than an hour. Tags sold were 496 of 566 (70 Non Resident A tags)? and 1290 of 1526 (236 Non Resident B Tags)? . This is well over a 10%. Residents had the opportunity to try and get a tag at 10 am on July 10th and non residents could buy anytime after 12/1/2015. If I remember correctly only 10% of any controlled Hunt is to be set aside for non residents. With these numbers not only did F&G sell more to non residents but exceeded the 10 percent rule if it applies to capped general season tags. Anyone that can explain that to me? Non residents not only are guaranteed tags but can buy them at any time for over 7 months? Meanwhile residents are first come first serve in one hour all are sold? Am I missing something? These numbers were on the IDFG press releases on their website.
Idaho Capped General Season Tags to Non Residents?
- Thread starter in2elk
- Start date
Zone quota tags are not bound by the 10% NR rule. They used the % of NR sales at the time they implemented the quota, and that is same tag split they now use. 40% of the tags in the zone I hunt go to NR! It is a cash cow for them. That is why they wont make it a Controlled hunt (not that I want them to).
LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-16 AT 04:19PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-11-16 AT 04:16?PM (MST)
It was not a controlled hunt drawing, these units have set quota of tags ,and they sold out faster than normal. It is basically first come , until they sell out. So the 10% rule did not apply.
It was not a controlled hunt drawing, these units have set quota of tags ,and they sold out faster than normal. It is basically first come , until they sell out. So the 10% rule did not apply.
grouseslayer
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Non resident tags are also limited and on a first come first serve basis, they just go on sale sooner. Nonresident Diamond creek A tags have been sold out for a while.
customweld
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It was like black Friday at all of the vendors yesterday morning! No Sawtooth tag for me. Guess it is down to plan c.
I think we all know what's coming with the Sawtooth zone in the next year or two...
Sold out in 3-4 hours last year, half a day the year before, 1 day the year before that.
Nervous that we are heading down a not so good path, with only being able to get mediocre tags every 2-3 years.
Sold out in 3-4 hours last year, half a day the year before, 1 day the year before that.
Nervous that we are heading down a not so good path, with only being able to get mediocre tags every 2-3 years.
runamuk
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So what's the options?
Go to a draw?
Do like Colorado issue more tags and go to shorter multi seasons?
Unlimited draw?
Add a few more tags and go to smaller units?
I think F&G has done about as good of job that could be done to keep opportunity and good quality hunts out there for us.
But sadly enough they have about hit the end of the road on
the opportunity part, I don't think it's F&G's fault though.
Just way to many folks moving to Idaho, can't fault people for that, but I sure don't have to like it.
Go to a draw?
Do like Colorado issue more tags and go to shorter multi seasons?
Unlimited draw?
Add a few more tags and go to smaller units?
I think F&G has done about as good of job that could be done to keep opportunity and good quality hunts out there for us.
But sadly enough they have about hit the end of the road on
the opportunity part, I don't think it's F&G's fault though.
Just way to many folks moving to Idaho, can't fault people for that, but I sure don't have to like it.
hounddawgs
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People are starting to figure out that it is a easy almost draw tag that is not far from the boise area unit 33 fairly easy to get to and you have all the garden valley, idaho city people who get that tag along with the lowman residents,not ant good solution other than make otc tags good for the entire state and not be broke up into sections and nr tags should be bought at the same time as resident tags or whatever is leftover should go to nr
huntfishall1
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The sawtooth zone elk tags have gotten to be very popular. With the number of hunters that hunt the units included within that zone, and the proximity to Boise it makes sense for the high demand. Also the overlap of deer and elk season plays a role, might as well get an elk tag if you plan to hunt mule deer during the overlap in case you stumble across elk.
I do agree with the others above, if the resident tags sell out so fast they need to make a fairer way to distribute tags, probably a draw at some point.
Also, why does Idaho still set aside elk tags for non residents hunting with an outfitter? That's welfare to me. Either put them in the non outfitted pool or provide those tags to residents.
Lastly, would it hurt to bump up the sawtooth zone elk tag numbers by the F&G?
I do agree with the others above, if the resident tags sell out so fast they need to make a fairer way to distribute tags, probably a draw at some point.
Also, why does Idaho still set aside elk tags for non residents hunting with an outfitter? That's welfare to me. Either put them in the non outfitted pool or provide those tags to residents.
Lastly, would it hurt to bump up the sawtooth zone elk tag numbers by the F&G?
runamuk
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It would be interesting to know just how many people didn't get a Sawtooth tag that wanted one.
Also which units get hit the hardest.
Huntfish, Very good point on the outfitter tags.
Plain and simple welfare tags, Is there any sensible reason F&G sets aside those tags for outfitters?
I can't think of any one thing that F&G does that chaps my ass more then that.
Also which units get hit the hardest.
Huntfish, Very good point on the outfitter tags.
Plain and simple welfare tags, Is there any sensible reason F&G sets aside those tags for outfitters?
I can't think of any one thing that F&G does that chaps my ass more then that.
hounddawgs
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One thing to remember is you can get this tag over the phone on there Website or by vendors so as it was a Sunday the website or vendors was the only way to get one it was my first choice but I went with plan c and got a elk city zone with horses and mules should still be a fun hunt plus be running hounds in there in September whatever your plan A,B,C is make the most of it and have fun
BPKHunter
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Well you didn't have an hour.
I was logged in right at 10am and was put into a virtual line. When that got me in, 8 min later, I couldn't get past my address verification page and it just started refreshing(little spinning circle). After a full 10 min, I opened another browser on another device. There I got farther, and was even able to pick the tag, but when I tried to proceed to pay, it again simply refreshed and no sale. After 10 min of hoping it would close, I opened another and when the tag optioned opened, no Sawtooth(A or B). That was by 10:30.
I'm sure it was more technical error and in the end some guys got tags going in later than I originally did, but just go lucky and the system didn't crash during their processing.
Sucks because my buddy, picked one up as a NR and we wanted to hunt together. Likely have to exchange his for a lesser area if we want to hunt together. I called in with a hope they might issue me one in sympathy, but the person I talked had the exact same issue and missed the tag as well, so I let it go.
Clearly their going to change to a LE option of some sort, be in Unlimited Draw or a pure limited.
At least I'll be hunting elk one way or another!
I was logged in right at 10am and was put into a virtual line. When that got me in, 8 min later, I couldn't get past my address verification page and it just started refreshing(little spinning circle). After a full 10 min, I opened another browser on another device. There I got farther, and was even able to pick the tag, but when I tried to proceed to pay, it again simply refreshed and no sale. After 10 min of hoping it would close, I opened another and when the tag optioned opened, no Sawtooth(A or B). That was by 10:30.
I'm sure it was more technical error and in the end some guys got tags going in later than I originally did, but just go lucky and the system didn't crash during their processing.
Sucks because my buddy, picked one up as a NR and we wanted to hunt together. Likely have to exchange his for a lesser area if we want to hunt together. I called in with a hope they might issue me one in sympathy, but the person I talked had the exact same issue and missed the tag as well, so I let it go.
Clearly their going to change to a LE option of some sort, be in Unlimited Draw or a pure limited.
At least I'll be hunting elk one way or another!
runamuk
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-12-16 AT 06:52PM (MST)[p]BPK
Same exact thing happened at the venders as what you described happened on your PC. it was agenizing standing there waiting for the screen to change.
I was extremely lucky to get a tag, I had a couple of screens open at home 2 seconds after 10:00 I clicked on Elk tags, a message popped up saying the website was going through some sort of maintenance, I'm thinking seriously?
So I click on the second screen and click elk tags the screen popped right up but there was no sawtooth zone tags listed.
So I close all windows and start over, up pops a screen
it said that I had a place in line approximate wait was something like 14 minutes, NO FREAKIN' BUENO!!!
I'm starting to work up a lil sweat, I live 6 miles out of town but there is a lil country store 1 mile from where I live
I call and ask if anybody is there buying tags, nope, not yet.
I jump in my truck and haul ass! I bust through the door still nobody there, she scans my license and nothing happens
Mean time I'm talking to some of my hunting pards that are spread out at all different venders and they're going through the same thing telling me 6-10 minutes between screens, bout that time the gal says maybe I need to reboot the machine, I beg please don't!!! but she does it anyway.
Instantly I lose all hope it took about 6-7 minutes for her to get back on line, by then 3 other folks had come rushing through the door, they had struck out at home same as me.
to shortin" this up a bit 25 minutes later I had my tag in hand.
The old-timer that was next in line got his, and the man and wife behind him left empty handed.
My two boys were camping at Anderson and had little trouble getting their tags on their phones.
Another guy I know was 3rd in line at a vender his girlfriend got him a tag on her phone while they stood in line.
Turns out all of my huntin' pards were able to score tags also.
I'm going to cherish this tag like never before, there's
little doubt in my mind that I'll never again get the chance to hunt this unit with my pards and we all have tags in our pockets.
Same exact thing happened at the venders as what you described happened on your PC. it was agenizing standing there waiting for the screen to change.
I was extremely lucky to get a tag, I had a couple of screens open at home 2 seconds after 10:00 I clicked on Elk tags, a message popped up saying the website was going through some sort of maintenance, I'm thinking seriously?
So I click on the second screen and click elk tags the screen popped right up but there was no sawtooth zone tags listed.
So I close all windows and start over, up pops a screen
it said that I had a place in line approximate wait was something like 14 minutes, NO FREAKIN' BUENO!!!
I'm starting to work up a lil sweat, I live 6 miles out of town but there is a lil country store 1 mile from where I live
I call and ask if anybody is there buying tags, nope, not yet.
I jump in my truck and haul ass! I bust through the door still nobody there, she scans my license and nothing happens
Mean time I'm talking to some of my hunting pards that are spread out at all different venders and they're going through the same thing telling me 6-10 minutes between screens, bout that time the gal says maybe I need to reboot the machine, I beg please don't!!! but she does it anyway.
Instantly I lose all hope it took about 6-7 minutes for her to get back on line, by then 3 other folks had come rushing through the door, they had struck out at home same as me.
to shortin" this up a bit 25 minutes later I had my tag in hand.
The old-timer that was next in line got his, and the man and wife behind him left empty handed.
My two boys were camping at Anderson and had little trouble getting their tags on their phones.
Another guy I know was 3rd in line at a vender his girlfriend got him a tag on her phone while they stood in line.
Turns out all of my huntin' pards were able to score tags also.
I'm going to cherish this tag like never before, there's
little doubt in my mind that I'll never again get the chance to hunt this unit with my pards and we all have tags in our pockets.
This will be intereting how it plays out. The tags are limited because the unit isn't meeting the population objectives. The quota wasn't intended to increase quality, but has inherently resulted in a quality hunt, not necessarily trophy quality, but simply less competition and crowds. There are a lot of conclusions that can be drawn from this that will contradict popular opinion and result in a flame icon next to the thread 
To answer your question, like others have stated the zone is not a controlled hunt but one of (9) capped areas. Therefore the 10% rule doesn't come into play. Secondly non-resident tags that went on sale Dec. 1 sold out in a very similar fashion, tags went on sale at midnight 12/1 for non-res and were sold out by early morning (4 or 5a). Not sure what the best option going forward would be, splitting the zone into two 33/34, 35/36 and issuing more, say 300 a tags and 700 b-tags per area? An unlimited draw sounds interesting, but if its an unlimited draw and you have 1000 people put in for sawtooth A as a second choice (which is what i would do if i wanted to hunt the zone), then there you sit with 1000 archery hunters with tags in a zone which to meet "objectives" can support only 496. BTW it was a complete and udder rat race Sunday am at almost all Fish & Game licensed vendors. To my knowledge the mobile site (for most people i have spoken to) was down all morning, yet desktop users (for the most part), were able to purchase tags. Very frustrating for the dedicated outdoors man who has option A as getting to a licensed vendor at 8a to wait in-line, b as the mobile site while in line, and C as calling to purchase while in line, these folks got hosed while the casual hunter on their desktop at home was able to purchase a tag. All vendors who took there first customer at exactly 10a took 18 minutes to spit out the first tag, incredible.
I was third in line at one of the vendors and didn't get an A tag the lady at the counter even showed me the computer. I called my buddy to tell him that it was useless to stand in line because they were sold out, he got on his phone after I called him and got an A tag. He called me and I tried on my phone and still nothing. So tell me how that works? Very frustrating.
fullthrottle
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Huh, easy fix. Time to enter it into idaho's beloved random draw system.
BPKHunter
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Well to say it was fair being that I was in line early and know others behind me got tags, would be incorrect, but I've had my fair share of luck in the system, killed a decent bull in a neighboring unit on a LE tag last year, so I chalk this up to paying my dues luck wise.
backcountryID
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Couldn't agree more, jetsled.
baerman
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nothing more fair than first come first served. The purchase system in place needs some work, yes. Putting this hunt into the controlled system should be a last resort or not an option. I was running two applications on one computer simultaneously. I got my wifes information in first and hit purchase before I even had my tag in the cart. As hers was processing it kicked her back into the tag selection page. Meanwhile, the purchase for my tag went through. It took three times to finally get my wife her tag and the receipt was stamped 10:42 am. This was after I called the phone number to hear them say it was sold out. So yes, the purchasing system needs work.
If we wouldn't have been lucky enough to get her tag I probably would have turned mine in to hunt another unit we both could hunt or put her on a waiting list. I'm sure other hunting parties are divided and some will turn in their tags. If you really want one get on the waiting list but it's probably too late now.
I suspected waiting in line was not a good option and assumed lines would be long. they should move it back to midnight. It's the 21st century, get on board.They and all you yahoos should stop advertising it so much. If you really want the tag, you'd pay attention to when these things are happening. You are all like a bunch of news reporters making a big deal out of something that wouldn't be a big deal otherwise if you hadn't known about it.
If we wouldn't have been lucky enough to get her tag I probably would have turned mine in to hunt another unit we both could hunt or put her on a waiting list. I'm sure other hunting parties are divided and some will turn in their tags. If you really want one get on the waiting list but it's probably too late now.
I suspected waiting in line was not a good option and assumed lines would be long. they should move it back to midnight. It's the 21st century, get on board.They and all you yahoos should stop advertising it so much. If you really want the tag, you'd pay attention to when these things are happening. You are all like a bunch of news reporters making a big deal out of something that wouldn't be a big deal otherwise if you hadn't known about it.
runamuk
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Yeah, great idea pretend There's no problem, and everything will fix itself, brilliant idea!
Never mind the fact that Fish and game issued a news release the very next morning about this very thing,
And let's just forget the fact that it's a pretty hot topic with many sportsman in this part of the state, wow The secret is really out.
Also I don't see anywhere on this thread that anybody was dragging their feet when it came time to buy a tag,
We were all aware of the 10 o'clock start, tuned in and ready.
And speaking of news reporters,
Thanks for your contribution to this
thread, welcome to the ya-hoo
Club.
If you ain't part of the solution, then you're just part of the problem.
Never mind the fact that Fish and game issued a news release the very next morning about this very thing,
And let's just forget the fact that it's a pretty hot topic with many sportsman in this part of the state, wow The secret is really out.
Also I don't see anywhere on this thread that anybody was dragging their feet when it came time to buy a tag,
We were all aware of the 10 o'clock start, tuned in and ready.
And speaking of news reporters,
Thanks for your contribution to this
thread, welcome to the ya-hoo
Club.
If you ain't part of the solution, then you're just part of the problem.
huntfishall1
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LAST EDITED ON Jul-14-16 AT 06:09AM (MST)[p]I'm confused. When it comes to the controlled hunts I hear most ID residents say time and time again that the pure random draw is the fairest way to distribute tags.
But now for a quota hunt I'm hearing some residents say the fairest way is "first come first served". Basically, sorry if you can't be standing in line or logged into a computer at an exact time on one specific day of the year, then TOO BAD, you lose and can't get a tag.
In my opinion - If there is a set number of tags for the zone then it's really not much different than a controlled hunt which also has a set number of tags for a unit.
Am I missing something here?
I think the first come first served works fine for hunts that have plenty of tags available relative to the demand. But when the demand far exceeds the supply of tags, like in this case where 1000s of tags sell within an hour, then that approach no longer works.
But now for a quota hunt I'm hearing some residents say the fairest way is "first come first served". Basically, sorry if you can't be standing in line or logged into a computer at an exact time on one specific day of the year, then TOO BAD, you lose and can't get a tag.
In my opinion - If there is a set number of tags for the zone then it's really not much different than a controlled hunt which also has a set number of tags for a unit.
Am I missing something here?
I think the first come first served works fine for hunts that have plenty of tags available relative to the demand. But when the demand far exceeds the supply of tags, like in this case where 1000s of tags sell within an hour, then that approach no longer works.
hounddawgs
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One thing to remember is on these types of tags they split them up between vendors, online and phone sells that's why some vendors was out before others , a tag that's sells out that fast iam thinking I don't want to be in that area when hunting season starts
OLDHORNHUNTER
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Heres an Idea make those same capped tags available to Residents Jan 1st thru the day they are sold out !! Those that don't want to gamble on the draw odds can buy their tag those that want to chance it on the draws can try & get their tag after the draw results come out !!
DownThePipe
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>Heres an Idea make those
>same capped tags available to
>Residents Jan 1st thru
>the day they are sold
>out !! Those that don't
>want to gamble on the
>draw odds can buy their
>tag those that want to
>chance it on the draws
>can try & get their
>tag after the draw results
>come out !!
Frankly I think this is the best idea yet. This idea means that the residents that are already committed to the hunt will get a tag.
>same capped tags available to
>Residents Jan 1st thru
>the day they are sold
>out !! Those that don't
>want to gamble on the
>draw odds can buy their
>tag those that want to
>chance it on the draws
>can try & get their
>tag after the draw results
>come out !!
Frankly I think this is the best idea yet. This idea means that the residents that are already committed to the hunt will get a tag.
runamuk
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>>Heres an Idea make those
>>same capped tags available to
>>Residents Jan 1st thru
>>the day they are sold
>>out !! Those that don't
>>want to gamble on the
>>draw odds can buy their
>>tag those that want to
>>chance it on the draws
>>can try & get their
>>tag after the draw results
>>come out !!
>
>
>Frankly I think this is the
>best idea yet. This
>idea means that the residents
>that are already committed to
>the hunt will get a
>tag.
Gotta admit I like that idea also.
>>same capped tags available to
>>Residents Jan 1st thru
>>the day they are sold
>>out !! Those that don't
>>want to gamble on the
>>draw odds can buy their
>>tag those that want to
>>chance it on the draws
>>can try & get their
>>tag after the draw results
>>come out !!
>
>
>Frankly I think this is the
>best idea yet. This
>idea means that the residents
>that are already committed to
>the hunt will get a
>tag.
Gotta admit I like that idea also.
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