Idaho Fish And Game....there is a fight coming

AspenAdventures

AspenAdventures

Very Active Member
Messages
2,889
No longer will I sit and watch

The deer herds of south east Idaho have been decimated.

Sure I can find a buck here and there but the land able to carry at least double what it has and I suspect 200% more.

Here is a post I put in another forum.....

--------------

Here is some fun facts for ya:

Just got back from hunting Idaho 76.

Saw 7 bucks....none big enough to shoot. Saw less does.

PATHETIC!

I took video of the range and documented over grazing by cattle. The canyons I was in were SEVERELY overgrazed. I am friends with a guy that was a USFS Range Con. He has explained the process and the correct grazing patterns needed for range. And, whomever is in charge of the Montpelier Canyon area....YA SUCK! Your boy likely plays on the same ball team as the ranchers...or the rancher hangs with you at church...or whatever. But, for some reason you turn a blind eye to the OVERGRAZING of the summer range. MY HORSES PRACTICALLY STARVED AND I HAD TO HAUL IN FEED IN A HUGE MEADOW!

I hate to fuel the fire of the tree huggers but I am sending the video link from Youtube to the USFS headquarters...also copying the SUWA, WILDLIFE CAOLITION, WESTERN RIVERS COALITION, and ADVOCATES FOR THE WEST. Hell, lets throw in the Sierra Club too. Someone will sue and keep their eyes on it. If you dont do your job then someone will force you to.

I LOVE CATTLE RANCHERS! BUT! Do not tread on MY LAND...OUR LAND. ...with heavy feet and act as if you own it...because you dont.

ALSO, IDAHO FISH AND GAME! YA SUCK! I was hunting the Rubies in Nevada a few years ago and the deer population went down the TANK! So, what did they do the next year...cut tags by 10%....it didnt work...so they cut tags by 50%....that is right....go look...a few years ago 101-108 CUT TAGS....and now they are increasing again and the hunting is coming back. IDFG...YA GOTTA CUT TAGS! You know it! DO IT! You need to limit the over the counter tags. You are selling too many.


AND FOR HEAVENS SAKE! WHEN YOU SELL DOE TAGS AND YOUR DEER ARE AT LEAST HALF OR LESS OF WHAT THEY SHOULD BE!!!!>......THEN YOU SUCK! YOU ARE FLAGRANTLY FAILING WITH DELIBERATE IMPLIED STUPIDITY!

>>> YOUR DEER ARE WAY BELOW CAPACITY IN 76
>>> YOUR SUMMER RANGE IS CRIMINALLY OVER GRAZED!
>>> YOUR DOES CANNOT BE HUNTED ANY LONGER!
>>> I HOPE ONE OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS SUE YOU
>>> I WILL BE DONATING MY TIME, MY VIDEOS, AND MY MONEY TO HELP THEM SUE YOU

SO, I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER TAG

AND YOU CAN KISS MY FAT HAIRY
TOE

SEE YA IN COURT
 
It is sad!
The Deer herds in Idaho just flat out SUCK!
Sure, there are places that you can see some deer...but overall is SUCKS!
They HAVE to get it fixed.
 
>^^^^^^ what a dipsh!t!!


Whys that? Because I dont just pal around with ya and drink a beer and let this keep happening?

If you are so smart lets hear your plan smartypants. Otherwise...you just let your mouth....runamuck
 
>It is sad!
>The Deer herds in Idaho just
>flat out SUCK!
>Sure, there are places that you
>can see some deer...but overall
>is SUCKS!
>They HAVE to get it fixed.
>


We pay their paychecks.

They promise.

They lay out the "mule deer plan"

AND THEY DO NOTHING! or worse...they kill the does...overgraze...overgraze...overgraze...oversell the buck tags...then tell us they cant figure it out.

bottom line is they get money from doe tags
get money over sold buck tags
get money from over selling cattle grazing

and nobody...ever ...holds them accountable....no score cards...no bonus for better buck to doe ratios...no bonus for % 4 point...so they dont care about deer...they go after whatever will fatten their budgets
 
Aspen,

How many days did you hunt? How many total deer did you see in those days?

We own a ranch in slug creek. there was still good feed/grass in aspen trees. I don't agree with over grazing period.

In slug creek, i bet Montpilier as well, had great June rains and grass. Then zero rain in about 100 days. That was bad for feed. Grazing down grass actually helps sage, bitter brush and most plants that deer feed on. Of course you can't over graze. COWS eat grass. They compete with elk feed more.

When we had more deer in the 60's and 70's we had a lot more sheep grazing. We also used poison on predators.

Grazing is important to monitor I agree. Doesn't effect deer feed much more elk. How was the elk population over that was in 76?

thanks
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 10:41AM (MST)[p]Here is their mule deer draft management plan

https://idfg.idaho.gov/sites/default/files/draft-management-plan-mule-deer-may-30-2019.pdf

Take a look at p54 and 55

2015 population was 35000
2019 population is 20000
They have lost HALF OF THEIR DEER

BUT

Doe tags have remained the same!! They are still killing 500 does every winter...it HASN'T CHANGED?! WHY?

IF YOU ELIMINATE THE DOE HUNTS THOSE 500 DOES BECOME 4000 DOES IN JUST 5 YEARS! THAT DOESNT COUNT THE BUCKS THEY WOULD ALSO PRODUCE!

They only reduced hunters from 13k to 10k so roughly 20% but they lost 50% of their deer

That is gross negligence! When you lose half of your deer then you SHUT DOWN HUNTING FOR A YEAR! Then you only sell maybe 20% of the tags.

AND YOU SELL "0", zip, zilch, nada...for doe tags.

AND YOU MAKE IT A 4 point or better hunt.

And you get the IDFG out there checking tags and people like good ol Gary Fralick in Wyoming...love the guy. Only F&G guy to ever check me in the back country. You love Wyoming? It's because of awesome F&G guys like Gary. NOW COME ON IDAHO!
 
This year they didn't offer doe permits in 66A and 76.
The IDFG continued to offer doe permits in 68,73A,75,77 for youth Oct 10-16th 2019-2020.

It's going to take a long time for deer herds to improve. Killing does in these units are going to make things much worse in Idaho.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 01:54PM (MST)[p]I agree with ya aspen. The deer herd in southeast Idaho is hurting big time. Idaho does a piss poor job of managing the deer herds. Can?t control the weather which is a huge factor, but the things they can control they do a horrible job at. Rut hunts, doe hunts, 2nd deer tags, general areas with outrageous permit numbers. They probably ought to start giving a damn about the deer or there isn't going to be any left. Some of the best genetics in the country and they waste it away.
 
>
>Doe tags have remained the same!!
> They are still
>killing 500 does every winter...it
>HASN'T CHANGED?! WHY?
>
>IF YOU ELIMINATE THE DOE HUNTS
>THOSE 500 DOES BECOME 4000
>DOES IN JUST 5 YEARS!
> THAT DOESNT COUNT THE
>BUCKS THEY WOULD ALSO PRODUCE!
>
>
>

Curious how you turn 500 does into 4000 does in 5 years. This isn't an Amway presentation.
 
I had the mid-October rifle elk tag last year. Between scouting and hunting in 66a and 76, I saw 2 does.

I've archery elk hunted the unit quite a bit over the years and never saw enough deer to even consider going back for rifle season. Needless to say, I was very surprised to see that many deer hunters!
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 03:25PM (MST)[p]Nevada,

500 does often have twins, 50% will be females, in one year they will be bred, and so forth. If there were not a lot of predators and they didn't winter kill, you could easily. have 4,000 deer in 4-5 generations.
The problem is we have a lot of predators and some winter kill in this region is expected every year. More reason not to have does hunts.
 
>Curious how you turn 500 does
>into 4000 does in 5
>years. This isn't an Amway
>presentation
Every doe has twins, sometimes triplets, probably doesn't even take 5 years.
 
Add TARDville to PISS POOR Deer Management!

They Boasted it was the Best in 25 Years!

We are in BIG Trouble!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 04:08PM (MST)[p]>LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19
>AT 03:25?PM (MST)
>
>Nevada,
>
>500 does often have twins, 50%
>will be females, in one
>year they will be bred,
>and so forth. If
>there were not a lot
>of predators and they didn't
>winter kill, you could easily.
>have 4,000 deer in 4-5
>generations.
>The problem is we have a
>lot of predators and some
>winter kill in this region
>is expected every year.
>More reason not to have
>does hunts.


But in the real world...


82541screenshot20191030144919drive.jpg


32501screenshot20191030132634drive.jpg


In the real world you seldom have 100% fawn recruitment. There are always predators, winter kill etc. In the region you're talking about it's .53 on average. That's actually pretty good. Think back to the winter of 2017-18. Anything big happen that year? You're trying to recover from a huge downward slide. Now I'm not saying they should or shouldnt be shooting 500 does. I'm just saying in the situation you're in right now, 500 does will take a while to become 4000. And honestly it should. Imagine the wild swings you'd have if it really was so simple.

When deer are in the tank as they are now it's very difficult for game departments to wave their magic wand and make them come back. There are so many factors at play they have no control over. I would say the best thing that could happen up there right now is to go all limited entry tags with quotas by area and put tag numbers in line with populations. But I doubt seriously if the hunters of Idaho are willing to give up their hunting. Wildlife managers are in the hot seat trying to manage animal populations for socio-economic outcomes.
 
Idaho fish and game is in charge of grazing permits?

Since when?

You were a guest in another state, and you #####? Here's a secret. Your a non resident. Not one person in Idaho give a rats azz what you think and quite frankly would prefer you not cross the border.

And I am saying that from South of the Utah border. But I do so as a guy who is growing increasingly tired of my states folks, WHO SOLD THEIR SOULS to $FW, pizzing off our neighbors.

In short. Stay home. Better yet, READ AHISTORY BOOK. Winter kill was brutal a few years back.

Get some damn maners. You were a guest. They owe you zero. Don't act like a Utahn.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-30-19 AT 04:59PM (MST)[p]You love ranchers and yet decided to send your little video to a bunch of eco-terror groups like the Sierra club? Grass grows because of rain or the lack thereof. You mow your damn lawn every week after you water the heck out of it right? Does it die? Nope it grows back with WATER!!!! See the pattern? Herbivores have evolved over millions of years to eat grass. And grass has evolved to be eaten. Maybe you'd rather have it all burn up? I feel your frustration but for you to jump into bed with radical environmental groups because you are pissed off is simply asinine. Those same groups aren't friends of agriculture or hunters. Congrats on being pretty damn naive. And before y?all crucify me for speaking out in favor of grazing, please remember that i have extended an open invitation for people to visit my ranch and see the benefits for wildlife. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON HAS EXCEPTED THAT INVITE!!!! That tells me you simply have your minds made up that guys like me are evil. It's pretty damn sad. I wish you well in your quest to improve deer herds. And I will fight like hell to protect my livelihood and to be an advocate in support of ranching. The benefits from agriculture vastly outnumber the challenges to hunters and wildlife. But you have to see past your own biases. As a rancher and a hunter I can see both sides. I wish to Hell you could!
 
Nevada,
Last year sportsmen, Biologist students from BYU, and UDWR collared 50 fawns on the Cache unit to see survival rates. In less than one year, 49 out of 50 were killed. A couple from abandonment/malnourished. About 1/3 were killed by lions, 1/3 killed by coyotes,and 1/3 by bobcats. Pretty poor recruitment. We are still getting numbers from this years research.

We are not recruiting enough fawns to even replace adult deer population in some areas period. I'm speaking of units 76,75,77,78 in Idaho as well as northern utah, I would guess western Wyoming as well.

When you view several trail cams in different areas, you get an idea of animal populations in the area as well. Lots of predators.

We know where animals deer and elk feed, bed, water, etc. Hunted the same area for 30 years, some private and some public land.
the elk are doing OK in SE Idaho, but the deer are in serious trouble. I know what I'm talking about. You can keep offering doe permits. Killing that ONE doe can mean a difference in at least a loss of 100 deer in the next 10 years. Are you awake now? Lets try to make changes that will help the resource. DEER.
 
huntin50, you and I have had our disagreements but I have never questioned your dedication to wildlife. Thank you.

_______________________________________

I have a basic question regarding this subject...

Does everybody agree that the almighty dollar is too big of an influence in game management decisions in EVERY western state?

It seems to me that if we can admit that money is a major factor in wildlife decisions (and not the herd objectives, buck:doe ratios, harvest age, etc, that are in every state's written "wildlife management plan") we can at least start to discuss the relativism of where that line should be drawn.
 
Well grizzly You're Right on the Money Part!

This Buck to Doe Ratio Management is the Biggest Bunch of BS ever invented!

The Number Boasted on total number of Deer in this State is also BS!

I've seen the Decline of Quality Mule Deer in this State since 1972!

They Boasted this was gonna be the Best Deer Hunt/Best Deer Herd in 25 years,Once again,BULLLSSHHIITTT!

I Guess you can BS alot of people in this State?

I'll say it once again:

When 2 Points become the Big Bucks of this state,TARDS will still be POUNDING them!

And I Quote:

"I Filled My Tag!"

"I needed the Meat!"

"He's a Big Bodied 2 Point!"

"Oh the Opportunity!"

This States Deer Management is F'D Up!






>huntin50, you and I have had
>our disagreements but I have
>never questioned your dedication to
>wildlife. Thank you.
>
>_______________________________________
>
>I have a basic question regarding
>this subject...
>
>Does everybody agree that the almighty
>dollar is too big of
>an influence in game management
>decisions in EVERY western state?
>
>
>It seems to me that if
>we can admit that money
>is a major factor in
>wildlife decisions (and not the
>herd objectives, buck:doe ratios, harvest
>age, etc, that are in
>every state's written "wildlife management
>plan") we can at least
>start to discuss the relativism
>of where that line should
>be drawn.











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
By the 80s in Idaho Deer were being over harvested due to too many Non Res tags. Grazing has took it's toll. Doe tags have taken their toll. 3 severe winters in the last 12 years have taken their toll. Not placing 4 point minimum in low numbers areas has taken it's toll.
IDFG has ruined the Deer population.
My friends, my family and my coworkers all saw the same thing this fall- almost no Deer in places we should have seen at least 10 Deer in a day or more.
I'm done Deer hunting here for now. I will try for Elk or once in a lifetime hunts now. SMH..
 
And I left out Predators. I was up in Palisades where I shot a big buck in 2010. No Deer seen but wolves were howling in the distance.
 
>Nevada,
>Last year sportsmen, Biologist students from
>BYU, and UDWR collared 50
>fawns on the Cache unit
>to see survival rates. In
>less than one year, 49
>out of 50 were killed.
>A couple from abandonment/malnourished. About
>1/3 were killed by lions,
>1/3 killed by coyotes,and 1/3
>by bobcats. Pretty poor recruitment.
>We are still getting numbers
>from this years research.
>
>We are not recruiting enough fawns
>to even replace adult deer
>population in some areas period.
>I'm speaking of units 76,75,77,78
>in Idaho as well as
>northern utah, I would guess
>western Wyoming as well.
>
>When you view several trail cams
>in different areas, you get
>an idea of animal populations
>in the area as well.
>Lots of predators.
>
>We know where animals deer and
>elk feed, bed, water, etc.
>Hunted the same area for
>30 years, some private and
>some public land.
>the elk are doing OK in
>SE Idaho, but the deer
>are in serious trouble. I
>know what I'm talking about.
>You can keep offering doe
>permits. Killing that ONE doe
>can mean a difference in
>at least a loss of
>100 deer in the next
>10 years. Are you awake
>now? Lets try to make
>changes that will help the
>resource. DEER.

My point exactly. In the real world 500 does do not turn into 4000 in 5 years. Look at the fawn survival rate chart I posted. You went to near zero survival. Are you awake now? I'm not saying you should shoot does under these conditions.
 
>
>Idaho fish and game is in
>charge of grazing permits?
>
>Since when?
>
>You were a guest in another
>state, and you #####?
>Here's a secret. Your
>a non resident. Not
>one person in Idaho give
>a rats azz what you
>think and quite frankly would
>prefer you not cross the
>border.
>
>And I am saying that from
>South of the Utah border.
> But I do so
>as a guy who is
>growing increasingly tired of my
>states folks, WHO SOLD THEIR
>SOULS to $FW, pizzing off
>our neighbors.
>
>In short. Stay home.
>Better yet, READ AHISTORY BOOK.
> Winter kill was brutal
>a few years back.
>
>Get some damn maners. You
>were a guest. They
>owe you zero. Don't
>act like a Utahn.
>
>
>From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN,
>PUBLIC LAND.

Let me get this straight...After a huge winter-kill and low deer numbers , this aspen (who isn't even from Idaho) panics after having a horrible hunt, sends eco-terrorists as much evidence as he can that cattle were the problem of why he didn't have a great hunt as he expected driving all the way from the state of Utah where he can't draw a tag anymore?

Sure the game and fish can do a better job, but yelling that you'll see them in court? Are you off your rocker?

I say stay home and save yourself from a heart attack or better yet, go join the local groups thy are heavily involved in deer management in that part of the state and work with the state. And most important, keep your mouth shut for a while and listen to their ideas that have been built on generations of living and hunting the area and learning a little about being polite, accepting rural culture, and being a good guest. You?re welcome.
 
>>> YOUR DEER ARE WAY BELOW CAPACITY IN 76
>>> YOUR SUMMER RANGE IS CRIMINALLY OVER GRAZED

Are you saying there is hardly any food, but more than what the current population of deer needs (deer are below a decimated carrying capacity)? Also Idaho f&g should immediately decrease deer tags to increase the deer population?

On top of this you believe the Sierra Club will fix the range for big game hunters and improve your hunting success rate?
 
While I can sympathize with the bad hunt Ann experienced in unit 76 this year, several of the assumptions are off base. Emotions often get the best of us, myself included.

As was previously mentioned, the rains in that area this year all came early, with an incredibly dry summer. The grass simply didn't grow in many areas, particularly where there was still a late snowpack from last winter. The high country really suffered. What looked like overgrazing was in large part just a failure of the grass to grow due to lack of rain. And of course, the grazing permits that were issued can't be changed on a moments notice.

There was in fact, pretty good grass in the timber and at lower elevation. This did make hunting very hard, as timbererd up deer and elk require a lot more effort to find and hunt successfully. (And, yes, I know deer don't eat grass, but the browse saw the same rains, and grew well only in the timber also).

The winter kills from a few years ago really took their toll. Not much IDGF could do about that in the short run. I think the deer population in this area is just starting to bounce back, albeit slowly. Yes, fewer tags would allow a quicker rebound, but most would scream about the lack of opportunity.

While many say the department wants the money (they do), the public also wants the opportunity. Social pressures are just as big a driver as economic pressures on the department.

It will be a few years before these deer herds bounce back, if mother nature allows and winters are mild. Mule deer populations have always been cyclic, and we are in one of the troughs at the moment. Better predator management would help, but how many of you have been out hunting coyotes, bobcats, and mountain lions in deer country this spring? We have all but shamed predator hunting out of existence, and then claimed the IDFG hasn't done their job.

I rarely predator hunt, so I understand, but at least I recognize the benefits these "other" sportsmen provide to our ailing deer herds.

Bill
 
:)

Hi guys. So glad to see you here.

Lets breakdown your arguments and look for facts.

Lets start by saying. I came home from Idaho and immediately went to a unit just out of SLC to hunt. Took 2 points to draw. FOUND DEER EVERYWHERE. You all call us Utards. Well...the tards are kicking your azz at deer management. If you cant do better than a tard does that make you dumber than a tard? Indeed :) Congrats Idaho...you are tardeder lol

Allrighty then!

lots of you went after my number of 500 to 400 does in 5 years....lets take a looooookie see....

year 1) 500 does have 750 fawns....some have twins or two babies and some dont.... so 750 is good...then multiply by 0.55 survival... so 500+(750 x 0.55 survival and then 0.5 are doe) = 706 does for year 2....

year 2) 706 doe .... (706 x 1.5) = 1059 fawns
then 1059 x 0.55 x 0.5 = 291 additional doe so.... 706+291 = 997 then add 500 doe if you want to see what the current slaughter is doing....so 997+500 = 1797 does headed into year 3 that you dont have under the current managment plan.

year 3) 1797 doe x 1.5 birth rate = 2695 fawns
then 2695 x 0.55 x 0.5 = 741 additional does.
1797 doe + 741 doe = 2538 doe + 500 doe not killed = 3038 doe

year 4) 3038 doe x 1.5 = 4557 fawn
4557 x .55 x .5 = 1253 additional doe
3038 + 1253 = 4291 total doe + 500 not killed = 4791 doe for year 5

year 5) 4791 doe x 1.5 = 7187 fawn
7187 x 0.55 x 0.5 = 1976 additional doe
1976 + 4791 = 6767 total does + 500 not killed = 7267 total doe

You guys will pick this apart....so lets just say it's only half as good.....are 4000 doe worth fighting for?

3000?

2000?

Over the 5 years alone the state will kill 2500 doe.

So, not too tough to think that 2500 doe will become 5000 or 7500. Get over it. Even if it is one doe.....at this point why arent you arguing to protect and preserve and promote the deer herd that has been decimated?
 
Ok, so now to address all the funny stuff above from you guys.
_______________________________________________
Hossblur...are you drunk?

You said..."stay home"..."you are a non res!".....
To that I say. I will stay home when Idaho stops selling non res tags for deer that arent there.

Or....when Idaho stops taking federal money for roads
or federal money for forests
is Idaho a net producer or a net blood sucker for federal cash?

Want me to stay home....ok....then quit selling tags...until then I am a cash paying customer and I will demand that my money and my land is managed at least on some basicly decent level. If they dont like it they can work it out in court.
____________________________________________________________

BBB...see response above for hossblur...

____________________________________________________________

huntin50...yes fawns die. We know. Thats why we shouldnt shoot doe until we have the herd to capacity.
____________________________________________________________

llamapacker....this is not an emotional issue...its a money thing. The state wants money so they can buy new trucks to drive around and look at the empty land that once held deer

_______________________________________________________

Deseret Ranch.....I love ranchers. I wont come out to your ranch unless you are selling tags. I have no desire to hang out with cows....but I will hang with bulls and bucks :) I love private land...I love ribeye steak...and I love that you are willing to raise cows for me to eat. I LOVE IT! However, when you run those cows on my hunting grounds....you need to move the cattle often enough that it doesnt decimate the range. Annnnnnnnd often you dont. You think no one is watching. You think nobody will care or say anything.

Well this time the rancher is wrong. It is bad enough I am going to say something...already did :)
___________________________________________________

To you all....why dont you say something?
When the herd is at 50% and they still hunt doe why sit there and apply for permits instead of reach out and say something?

When you see grass completely gone and nothing left of the Utah Serviceberries or the snowberry brush....why do you sit and say nothing...or worse...bash me..

Lets unite. Lets go after the do nothing SFW and the state who only look to cash in on our backs. They figure you are too dumb or lazy to do or say something.

Will you now continue to prove them right?

I am a conservative voice but I also recognize the only attorneys willing to hold these state legislatures accountable are the attorneys working for the SIERRA CLUB or these other left wing institutions....if needs be I will use the left to save the deer. Unless the state will step up and do what they are supposed to.
 
For those who have asked me to link the video I was told yesterday by one organization to not show or release the video to anyone until or unless this actually goes to court. If it goes to court there is a "discovery" period and they may release it then if required.

They said if the suit is not successful they will wish to do a public release of the footage to news agencies. They asked for control of the video. I gave it to them. I hope it is used to nail whoever is over grazing.

There are specific guidelines on grazing. If not followed then the Federal Agency ... the USFS...is required to fine or suspend the permittee.

That isnt happening......but hopefully it will. As far as the state goes...I have a few other tricks up my sleeve :)

This has become a new hobby for me.

HI :)....Hope you are paying attention to this little thread lil state of Idaho. Lets play ball boys....get some results or get out.
 
Here's an idea for idahoans and Utahns.

Everyone put in for all the doe tags you can, then burn them in the fire.
 
>:)
>
>Hi guys. So glad
>to see you here.
>
>Lets breakdown your arguments and look
>for facts.
>
>Lets start by saying. I
>came home from Idaho and
>immediately went to a unit
>just out of SLC to
>hunt. Took 2 points
>to draw. FOUND DEER
>EVERYWHERE. You all call
>us Utards. Well...the tards
>are kicking your azz at
>deer management. If you
>cant do better than a
>tard does that make you
>dumber than a tard?
>Indeed :) Congrats Idaho...you
>are tardeder lol
>
>Allrighty then!
>
>lots of you went after my
>number of 500 to 400
>does in 5 years....lets take
>a looooookie see....
>
>year 1) 500 does have
>750 fawns....some have twins or
>two babies and some dont....
>so 750 is good...then multiply
>by 0.55 survival... so 500+(750
>x 0.55 survival and then
>0.5 are doe) = 706
>does for year 2....
>
>year 2) 706 doe .... (706
>x 1.5) = 1059 fawns
>
>then 1059 x 0.55 x 0.5
>= 291 additional doe so....
>706+291 = 997 then
>add 500 doe if you
>want to see what the
>current slaughter is doing....so 997+500
>= 1797 does headed into
>year 3 that you dont
>have under the current managment
>plan.
>
>year 3) 1797 doe
>x 1.5 birth rate =
>2695 fawns
>then 2695 x 0.55 x 0.5
>= 741 additional does.
>1797 doe + 741 doe =
>2538 doe + 500 doe
>not killed = 3038 doe
>
>
>year 4) 3038 doe x
>1.5 = 4557 fawn
>4557 x .55 x .5
>= 1253 additional doe
>3038 + 1253 = 4291 total
>doe + 500 not killed
>= 4791 doe for year
>5
>
>year 5) 4791 doe x
>1.5 = 7187 fawn
>7187 x 0.55 x 0.5
> = 1976 additional
>doe
>1976 + 4791 = 6767 total
>does + 500 not killed
>= 7267 total doe
>
>You guys will pick this apart....so
>lets just say it's only
>half as good.....are 4000 doe
>worth fighting for?
>
>3000?
>
>2000?
>
>Over the 5 years alone the
>state will kill 2500 doe.
>
>
>So, not too tough to think
>that 2500 doe will become
>5000 or 7500. Get
>over it. Even if
>it is one doe.....at this
>point why arent you arguing
>to protect and preserve and
>promote the deer herd that
>has been decimated?

So let's take your math and scale it to the whole doe population. I know you watch shark tank so you know what scaling is.

Assumption:
500 does become 7267 in five years

Pop estimate (from IDFG chart above) is 13,500 does or 27 times the 500 killed.
So:
27 x 7267 = 196209
Lets subtract the 7267 that are not produced by the dead deer.
196,209 - 7267 = 188,942

Therefore:
13500 does will become
188,942 does in five years even with the continued doe harvest of 500/year.

Conclusion:
Stick with Amway or whatever multi-level marketing scheme you're into. Your math is beyond over simplified.

Again, I'm not saying they should be killing does. I'm saying leave the population estimate stuff to the biologists.

14315screenshot20191031111246chrome.jpg


28421screenshot20191031111414chrome.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-19 AT 03:02PM (MST)[p]I really love the "its all about money with State F&G department" rants. Seems they show up about every State. Its as if people think the F&G employees get to keep any extra above their budget. Then there are the usual rants about pickup trucks. I see that one reared its head in this thread. Seems we are not happy unless our state employees are three deep in a 1984 single cab Ford.

Can anyone tell me what percentage of your States F&G budget is spent on light vehicles? Additionally, can anyone tell me what is the correct light vehicle spend in a year?

All this money the F&G rakes in is spent on programs to support wildlife populations and programs in the State. If you are unhappy with the results of those programs then argue for a different program or policy. But when the best you can come up with is they sell too many tags so that they can have new pickups you look foolish. Particularly when you have no idea how much they spend on pickups.
 
The OP is severely overreacting.

First of all there currently is no doe hunting in unit 76. They closed the youth doe season after the 2016-2017 winter kill. The winter 2017-2018 was more mild but 2018-2019 had fawn survival on the low end of normal also. These are the population cycles that mule deer go through. Winter will always be the population level control. It has happened before and it will happen again and smart hunters know how to plan accordingly.

Here is the most recent data for general season any weapon stats in unit 76.

Year / Harvest / Does / Hunter # / success rate %

2018 / 821 / 0 / 3032 / 27.1
2017 / 720 / 0 / 3531 / 20.4
2016 / 1822 / 163 / 3774 / 48.3
2015 / 1764 / 177 / 3864 / 45.7
2014 / 1410 / 209 / 3417 / 41.3
2013 / 979 / 101 / 2660 / 36.8
2012 / 731 / 100 / 2166 / 33.8
2011 / 515 / 126 / 2498 / 20.3
2010 / 991 / 120 / 2766 / 35.8
2009 / 876 / 97 / 2882 / 30.4
2008/ 803 / 12 / 3518 / 22.8
2007 / 1367 / 3 / 3629 / 37.7
2006 / 967 / 1 / 3276 / 29.5
2005 / 774 / 31 / 2935 / 26.4
2004 / 751 / 0 / 3001 / 25
2003 / 798 / 3 / /
2002 668 / 18 / 3737 / 18

Idaho had hard winters in 2000/2001, 2007/2008, 2010/2011 and 2016/2017. The harvest following the 2010/2011 winter was much lower than it is now, especially considering that only 389 of the deer were bucks. And yet, within 5 consecutive mild winters the harvest rose to 1659 bucks. Look back at the years following other bad winters and you can see the harvest trending up and it would have continued if hard winters hadn't come along to stop the growth.

A few things to pay attention to in the numbers above. In unit 76 the hunter numbers are trending down. Why? Because smart hunters know about the recent winter kills and are looking in other units or have decided to sit out the last few years and wait for better times. That's hunting natural selection at work. Over 800 hunters took themselves out of the unit in the last 2 years, there's your tag reduction.

Next, the number of deer harvested is trending up. Growth is always slow after a bad winter but with luck and a few more mild years the population will grow more quickly. When that happens, hunters will take notice and return to hunting this unit.

Third, there has been no doe harvest in unit 76 since 2016. After other bad winters IDFG left the youth doe season open. After the 2016-2017 winter, IDFG closed the youth doe season. So they did effectively cut tags or at least reduce pressure on the does carrying future generations. It will be interesting to see if the herd recovers more quickly because of this as opposed to previous winter kills.
 
"At this point why aren't you arguing to protect and preserve and promote the deer herd that has been decimated.?"

Answer: Because we are tired of listening to chicken little tell us and wildlife departments to stop hunting every time they have a bad year.

Just because you had a bad hunt doesn't mean the herd has been decimated. You aren't the first person who has come out swinging to cut hunting tags, dates, boundaries, and everything else to sooth yourself.

Shucks elk assassin was complaining about his area last year and it turned out to have a 70% success rate. That's crazy awesome in my book. He was just pissed because he didn't see a 6+-yr old deer. Fair enough, but I don't want to miss a year of hunting a good area because someone else is perpetually uptight and pissed off. When people complain about not seeing "shooters" but don't give specifics, it always raises suspicions that they are passing good deer that most of us would be thrilled with. And then they fight to cut everyone else's hunt. No thank you.

Some years are just bad weather. Last year was a great hunt across the board. Everyone was talking about good water and massive antlers this spring. Things dried out and everyone is wondering where the deer went. There wasn't a winter kill to speak of. We might do well to investigate and wait instead of tearing the entire F&G apart.

I have a neighbor that runs cows and will be butchering a lot of them this fall because the feed on the mountain is so poor. None of us could have imagined in a very wet cool June that the range would be this bad in the fall. Maybe we should be killing some more does if its that bad. Maybe not. I'm personally more freaked out with the potential of a major drought in the southwest than the deer hunt.
 
Great info and harvest data.

Why are they selling over the counter tags in a unit that is HALF of objective?

Why is the forest service over grazing it?
 
>Great info and harvest data.
>
>Why are they selling over the
>counter tags in a unit
>that is HALF of objective?

One possible answer is to provide hunter opportunity and the harvest data elkslayer provided shows that the herd is able to fairly quickly rebound after harsh winters. Data shows a much higher correlation between herd population and winter kill than it does herd population and buck harvest.


>Why is the forest service over
>grazing it?

Over grazing is your opinion and not necessarily a fact. But lets say that you are correct and it is in fact overgrazed. Maybe the reason they allowed it to be overgrazed is the same reason you thought they were allowing doe harvest in unit 76. They were just wrong. Sometimes people are just wrong, like you are about doe harvest in 76. Hard for a lot of us to say if its overgrazed or not because you are now taking marching orders from Sierra Club, Western Waters or which ever environmental group is telling you what to do.
 
Idelkslayer,

Could you post harvest data in units 75 and 77 as well?

I said in an earlier post the didn't have youth doe hunts the past 2 years. I sent the IFAG an email after the hunt 3 years ago.

The complaints helped make changes then. We had 6 gut piles in one draw on public land, just next to our property in 76. They were kids shooting does. We saw very few deer that year. No reason to shoot does until populations objectives are accomplished.

Youth or archery.

Thanks
 
Maybe Trump should have gone to DC and just kept his mouth shut and listened to the SWAMP tell him how to do things since it has been done over hundreds of years.?

No

Look it is simple

Deer are under objective. Dont hunt them till they are over.
Done

NOW YOU STFU :)
 
Youth doe hunts are a head scratcher for me as well. While waiting in line at a Western Wyo check station this year, the truck in front of us had two youth hunters and they were checking a spike and a doe. I had my two sons with me, 13 and 12. When we got checked we let the warden know we had nothing to check and that all we had seen were does and small bucks. He asked why we didn't take shots at them and I let him know that we felt there were better units in Wyo to take a yearling buck than the Wyoming Range. His comment was it is such a small number taken by youth that it really didn't make a difference. I see what he is getting at but still seems like the wrong unit to be taking does and yearling bucks.
 
>>Great info and harvest data.
>>
>>Why are they selling over the
>>counter tags in a unit
>>that is HALF of objective?
>
>One possible answer is to provide
>hunter opportunity and the harvest
>data elkslayer provided shows that
>the herd is able to
>fairly quickly rebound after harsh
>winters. Data shows a
>much higher correlation between herd
>population and winter kill than
>it does herd population and
>buck harvest.
>
>
>>Why is the forest service over
>>grazing it?
>
>Over grazing is your opinion and
>not necessarily a fact.
>But lets say that you
>are correct and it is
>in fact overgrazed. Maybe
>the reason they allowed it
>to be overgrazed is the
>same reason you thought they
>were allowing doe harvest in
>unit 76. They were
>just wrong. Sometimes people
>are just wrong, like you
>are about doe harvest in
>76. Hard for a
>lot of us to say
>if its overgrazed or not
>because you are now taking
>marching orders from Sierra Club,
>Western Waters or which ever
>environmental group is telling you
>what to do.

No, over grazing is a fact. The USFS that issues the permit has regulations issued to the public and the permittee that establish guidelines that regulate how much forage is allowed to be grazed as it relates to the control site (small area with a fence). In the absence of a control site there are regulations on percent foraged. It requires ranchers and the USFS Range Conservation Officer to weekly check on the herds and ensure all watershed areas are not being over grazed or damaged. Also, they must check all foraged areas for over grazing as per the permit rules and guidelines for the area.

So, no. Its not just my opinion...its rules and regulations decided by a governing body the USFS and written into law that they are obligated to enforce.....and I pay their paycheck....and I, with my big game tag...pay the paycheck of the IDFG biologist as well. So...ya.

IDFG sets goals they are not hitting
USFS sets goals they are not hitting

Not my opinion........thats a fact.
 
>No, over grazing is a fact.
> The USFS that issues
>the permit has regulations issued
>to the public and the
>permittee that establish guidelines that
>regulate how much forage is
>allowed to be grazed as
>it relates to the control
>site (small area with a
>fence). In the absence
>of a control site there
>are regulations on percent foraged.
> It requires ranchers and
>the USFS Range Conservation Officer
>to weekly check on the
>herds and ensure all watershed
>areas are not being over
>grazed or damaged. Also,
>they must check all foraged
>areas for over grazing as
>per the permit rules and
>guidelines for the area.
>
>So, no. Its not just
>my opinion...its rules and regulations
>decided by a governing body
>the USFS and written into
>law that they are obligated
>to enforce.....and I pay their
>paycheck....and I, with my big
>game tag...pay the paycheck of
>the IDFG biologist as well.
> So...ya.
>
>IDFG sets goals they are not
>hitting
>USFS sets goals they are not
>hitting
>
>Not my opinion........thats a fact.

It is a fact they have rules on grazing, no one is disputing that. It is your opinion that they have violated those rules and that USFS has failed to properly monitor and enforce those rules. You might have been able to provide some evidence to back up your claims of overgrazing to the audience you have chosen to speak to. But rather you chose to give rights to that evidence to SC, Wild Earth Guardians, PETA or who ever you signed them over to.
 
The only way they listen is if you hit them with a law suit. They dont care about money. But, if they missed their mark, over grazed, didnt document, then they look bad. And, that will hurt a guy trying to work for his $1.00 raise every 6 months on a GS11 pay grade. So, l say if they dont do their job we help them. But since they chose not to listen to the public we have no choice but to enforce their guidelines and goals through someone else.
 
>Maybe Trump should have gone to
>DC and just kept his
>mouth shut and listened to
>the SWAMP tell him how
>to do things since it
>has been done over hundreds
>of years.?
>
>No
>
>Look it is simple
>
>Deer are under objective. Dont
>hunt them till they are
>over.
>Done
>
>NOW YOU STFU :)


It is simple. Their is zero law another state has to allow NR.

Perhaps idaho should just shut the door.




From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-19 AT 02:18PM (MST)[p]>The only way they listen is
>if you hit them with
>a law suit.
>They dont care about money.
> But, if they missed
>their mark, over grazed, didnt
>document, then they look bad.
> And, that will
>hurt a guy trying to
>work for his $1.00 raise
>every 6 months on a
>GS11 pay grade. So,
>l say if they dont
>do their job we help
>them. But since they
>chose not to listen to
>the public we have no
>choice but to enforce their
>guidelines and goals through someone
>else.



Pinhead.

The Idaho fish and game is a state run agency.

The FS/BLM is federal.

If 76 is overgrazed, EXACTLY HOW is that Idaho fish and game issue? Second. You got any data to hack your overgrazed claim? I mean last i checked you sold 2nd hand clothes, did you suddenly become a botanist? Where did your degree in range management come from? Do you have any proof other than you saw grass was eaten?

Sue them. Sue Idaho. For what exactly? What standing do you have in Idaho? You bought a hunting tag. You were guarantees nothing. Further you were extended a courtesy from the owners of the deer, THE CITIZENS OF IDAHO to pursue their deer.

Stay home. You now know. There are no deer in Idaho. No reason to ever venture up there again.

And. Do us all a favor here "where Utah management is kicking your as azz", whenever you do venture out of Utah, RENT A CAR WITH OUT OF STATE PLATES.

We got enough issues without a loud mouthed jackwagon "representing" us down here. Let them think your from somewhere else.


From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
>The only way they listen is
>if you hit them with
>a law suit.
>They dont care about money.
> But, if they missed
>their mark, over grazed, didnt
>document, then they look bad.
> And, that will
>hurt a guy trying to
>work for his $1.00 raise
>every 6 months on a
>GS11 pay grade. So,
>l say if they dont
>do their job we help
>them. But since they
>chose not to listen to
>the public we have no
>choice but to enforce their
>guidelines and goals through someone
>else.

GS pay scale raises happen on a time served basis not merit based.

Choosing to try and support hunters interests through anti hunting organizations seems awful strange.

Half the time you post something I think you do it just to be an internet troll.
 
>>The only way they listen is
>>if you hit them with
>>a law suit.
>>They dont care about money.
>> But, if they missed
>>their mark, over grazed, didnt
>>document, then they look bad.
>> And, that will
>>hurt a guy trying to
>>work for his $1.00 raise
>>every 6 months on a
>>GS11 pay grade. So,
>>l say if they dont
>>do their job we help
>>them. But since they
>>chose not to listen to
>>the public we have no
>>choice but to enforce their
>>guidelines and goals through someone
>>else.
>
>GS pay scale raises happen on
>a time served basis not
>merit based.
>
>Choosing to try and support hunters
>interests through anti hunting organizations
>seems awful strange.
>
>Half the time you post something
>I think you do it
>just to be an internet
>troll.

I have no dog in this fight since I have never hunted Idaho, but would like to in the future!
Aspen sounds like an a-hole to me thru his post! Getting into bed with anti hunting organizations is a complete douche move especially if he is not even from Idaho. I agree mule deer are on the decline in all western states, but joining forces with anti groups is not the answer!! Aspen may get his wish & hunting will be stopped completely & thats what antis want. DON?T THINK FOR A SECOND IT CANT HAPPEN!!!! There is some crazy sh*t going on in this country right now!!
 
I think he's just trying to prove a point,everyone knows blm is a fed run agency and idaho game and fish is state, he's just trying to get people to think about a way to fix the deer situation, no one is dumb enough to complain to anti hunting groups
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-01-19
>AT 02:18?PM (MST)
>
>
>
>Pinhead.


Well said. Lets hope the state's wildlife doesn't suffer further while Idaho defends itself from a frivolous lawsuit filed by someone who thinks they have to take their shoes off to count all the branches of government. God I wish the losers had to pay....


Bluehair
Splitting my time time between the winter and summer range......
May you live long enough to cash in those preference points. Amen
 
Mother Nature is a MF when it comes to deer herds, figure out how to reduce snowfall, keep temps above 30 degrees and stop that late spring snowstorm and you might have a chance. Aspen would have you think the deer starved to death on the summer range in July when the issue is in February on the winter range.

Fawn recruitment is the key and it doesn't happen in the summer.
 
Just my experience- Just finishing up hunting Deer in 44, I spend a lot of time in this unit, this has always been a rifle trophy hunt, now that they slipped in another 40 archery tags, they turned it into an archery trophy hunt and an opportunity rifle hunt. They are giving to many tags and with winter kills the older age class deer are gone. Yes there were a handful of nice bucks killed, but no where near what the unit is capable of carrying. They have all but wiped unit 52, read Big ol muleys post, he hardly saw any deer. Unit 45 has also gone way down hill. The South Hills, where are pictures of all the big bucks. How about units 49 and 48 over the counter, they will sell as many tags as possible when most local hunters feel bad for the forkhorns and won't shoot them, my young girls won't even kill them, but they will continue to over sell licenses to people that will. The mega cow hunt just opened up for the month of Nov.. Mike Mcdonald the biologist for Magic valley, says there are to many deer on the winter range so he's going to continue to keep killing them off. It seems to me somewhere the numbers are off. I also get sick of the guys coming on here saying you need to go to the meetings and be part of the process. I am going to tell you I've been to a lot of meetings, and last Feb. IGF meeting was a joke, we had to listen to Mcdonald go on for an hour and a half on Corn and Corn Production, and no public questions to be answered, this was the worst game and fish meeting I have ever been to, go figure it seems to me the big farmers are running the game and fish. I am glad people are starting to get pissed off because that's what it going to take to change this.
 
See ya in court sucka!!!!

What a joke this thread is.

You?re gonna turn to those organizations to help you?

I would ask the question if you're insane.

But I do believe you've taken the question of how stupid can you be, as a total challenge.

There won't be a courtroom battle. There won't be anything pertaining to over grazing. You?re a blow hard arm chair quarter back, who believes you've minored in wild life biology.

You were proven wrong on the doe hunts with the statistics. Yet you still persist the same broken argument.

Go sit with your earth warriors. Let me know how interested they are in all your hunting adventures. I'm sure they are there to fight for hunting with you....give me a break.
 
I'm totally fine with people demanding fish and game do their job. I'm not ok with a semi incoherent blow hard contacting anti hunting organizations to represent us which honestly I bet he didn't do. I think he makes these posts to stir the chit. And if he really did I honestly hope he stops hunting and joins a country club and plays golf instead. We don't need emotional knee jerk reactions. We need intelligent science based arguments that are well backed and have supporting evidence. And we need to figure out how to root out the corruption out of fish and game agencies.
 
scopesntalk....

you said

"I'm totally fine with people demanding fish and game do their job. I'm not ok with a semi incoherent blow hard contacting anti hunting organizations to represent us which honestly I bet he didn't do. I think he makes these posts to stir the chit. And if he really did I honestly hope he stops hunting and joins a country club and plays golf instead. We don't need emotional knee jerk reactions. We need intelligent science based arguments that are well backed and have supporting evidence. And we need to figure out how to root out the corruption out of fish and game agencies."

_____________________________________

So, tell me which group I can turn to when I want to hold the IDFG responsible for overhunting and the USFS for over grazing.

Not the IDFG meetings....they dont listen
Not the Forest Service.....we already have records of them being talked to.

So, give me a real solution to the issue...... go for it big guy.
 
>scopesntalk....
>
>you said
>
>"I'm totally fine with people demanding
>fish and game do their
>job. I'm not ok with
>a semi incoherent blow hard
>contacting anti hunting organizations to
>represent us which honestly I
>bet he didn't do. I
>think he makes these posts
>to stir the chit. And
>if he really did I
>honestly hope he stops hunting
>and joins a country club
>and plays golf instead. We
>don't need emotional knee jerk
>reactions. We need intelligent science
>based arguments that are well
>backed and have supporting evidence.
>And we need to figure
>out how to root out
>the corruption out of fish
>and game agencies."
>
>_____________________________________
>
>So, tell me which group I
>can turn to when I
>want to hold the IDFG
>responsible for overhunting and the
>USFS for over grazing.
>
>Not the IDFG meetings....they dont listen
>
>Not the Forest Service.....we already have
>records of them being talked
>to.
>
>So, give me a real solution
>to the issue...... go for
>it big guy.

Before I answer that, I am going to ask you a question, no bull chit no nonsense. I'm being totally genuine here. How does posting something like this in the manner you did going to help people support your cause? If you really believe things need to change and there is something wrong do you feel that screaming ?YA SUCK? at fish and game is going to get people to back what your doing? And telling your fellow hunters you are contacting anti hunting organizations about this? I don't see how you intended to get support from fellow sportsman with your post. It honestly looks like you are just trolling. Are you? Do you actually want to change things and improve it?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-04-19 AT 10:12AM (MST)[p]Fs and gf are SCIENCE based.

Meaning YOU will either have to comb the FS forest inventory data, or range data, and compile the DATA that proves your issue.

Same with gf. You will have to access counts, or hire someone to do them. Then compare to historical data.

THEN. You can attend hearings and meetings backed with VERIFIABLE data.

Honestly it might help to have taken your DATA to local groups to get their backing and support.

"I'm some dude from Utah and you guys suck" Ain't going to do nothing.

And you might want to get someone with some sort of science background. FS will have piles of PhD, and masters. The livestock associations will to. As will GF

While your obviously impressed with your vast knowledge of range management and deer recruitment, I highly doubt anyone else is.



From the party of HUNTIN, FISHIN, PUBLIC LAND.
 
Not to get in a big internet battle and I'm not an expert in biology or forestry, but I've been hunting the same unit for 10 years now, one of the heaviest hunted in the state. Saw as many deer this year as I've seen in the past, lots of young bucks that need a couple more years, lots of doe's with fawns, lots of 3 and 4-point bucks. Shot a good mature buck that had his teeth worn down to the gums....

We do have WAY more predators than in the 60-70's, that contributes, more elk contributes, but the winters have been really bad last year and in 17. The deer will bounce back.

I do agree that we need stiffer predator management. We have tons of bears, coyotes, bobcats and wolves.
 
Not just trolling

I don't trust the states to do anything about it.

Utah has their little meetings and they are useless. I have a friend that sits on the RAC. Tells me how useless they are. Tells me behind closed doors they laugh about it. He?s pretty pissed off about it. It's about money. I don't know why since it doesn't increase their pay.

You missed the point. I don't care what you guys think I don't care. I flat out don't care. I'm not trying to make friends.

Prefer to hunt by myself don't need friends.

Trying to get Idaho to quit shooting so many deer. They have half of the deer they claim they should have. Population is 20,000 population should be 35,000. Quit shooting so many deer.

If you guys have better ideas then go ahead. Apparently everything you have been doing isn't working because the deer population is 50% of capacity. Nice work
 
I don't trust the state?s to do anything about it.....

So I've decided to partner up with earth warriors.

Things that make ya go hmmmm......

It's official, he's taking it as a challenge.
 
yea I'm still interested in how long ASSpen's been hunting in Idaho. I bet it's less than 5 years.

and how many IF&G meetings he's been to. I bet it's less than 1.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19 AT 09:10AM (MST)[p]Aspen, Here?s an idea why don't you quit hunting in Idaho & that will save at least 1 deer!! Better yet why don't you quit hunting all together, that will save deer in the other states you hunt!!!
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19
>AT 09:10?AM (MST)
>
>Aspen, Here?s an idea why don't
>you quit hunting in Idaho
>& that will save at
>least 1 deer!! Better yet
>why don't you quit hunting
>all together, that will save
>deer in the other states
>you hunt!!!


And now we all know you are 12....or 13
 
>yea I'm still interested in how
>long ASSpen's been hunting in
>Idaho. I bet it's less
>than 5 years.
>
>and how many IF&G meetings he's
>been to. I bet it's
>less than 1.

lol...six years this year

again my friend is on the RAC here in Utah. Says behind the scenes they laugh at the public. So...

meetings get almost zero results
meetings dont matter and they laugh at you
meetings are great powerpoint presentations but we still have HALF OF THE DEER that we should

So, why would I go to a meeting? Are you a masochist?
 
>Still interested in your stance of
>deer supposedly starving to death
>in July because of overgrazing.
>


Never said that was the issue. The winter range in the area I hunted is plenty big for more deer. The state admits they could carry 100% more deer on the unit. In fact they set a goal to get to 100% more deer. But then they proceed to kill doe and oversell tags....so.

I never said deer were starving in July.

Over grazing is a trigger issue that allows you to control or punish for other issues right?

You understand sage grouse and the lefts attempt to list them as endangered isnt about sage grouse right?

Same with over grazing.

My question to you is....if the rancher is over grazing....why dont you want to fix it?
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19
>AT 09:10?AM (MST)
>
>Aspen, Here?s an idea why don't
>you quit hunting in Idaho
>& that will save at
>least 1 deer!! Better yet
>why don't you quit hunting
>all together, that will save
>deer in the other states
>you hunt!!!


I love how you did all your own math and everything :) LOLOL
 
>>
>>>
>>>Prefer to hunt by myself don't
>>>need friends.
>>>
>>
>>
>>I think urine luck.
>
>
>After reading your post history I
>am not surprised you act
>like you are 12 years
>old.
>
>This one from you is a
>doooozy https://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/DCForumID46/8709.html
>
>You are a leftist scab who
>peeeed his panties when Hillary
>lost. Lol
>
>Thanks .... you can now leave
>the room while the adults
>Talk.

The adults are talking. You're not listening.

Since you brought up left and right... filing lawsuits against land and wildlife management agencies is a very leftist tactic. I guess the left is only evil until you want something.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19
>>AT 09:10?AM (MST)
>>
>>Aspen, Here?s an idea why don't
>>you quit hunting in Idaho
>>& that will save at
>>least 1 deer!! Better yet
>>why don't you quit hunting
>>all together, that will save
>>deer in the other states
>>you hunt!!!
>
>
>And now we all know you
>are 12....or 13

Ohh good comeback now my feelings are hurt??
 
>https://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-..._thread&om=2981&forum=DCForumID37&archive=yes
>
>
> in 2016 you claim "this
>is our first year hunting
>Idaho". Now in 2019 you
>say you've been hunting Idaho
>for 6 years. So were
>you lying in 2016 or
>are you lying now. or
>maybe you suck at math
>that 12 year olds are
>proficient at. lol.....lol.....lol.....

He don't math!

It must have been really bad in 76 because if you have seen the glorified 2 point he shot in CO this year you would know his standards are pretty low.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19
>AT 05:12?PM (MST)
>
>>https://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-..._thread&om=2981&forum=DCForumID37&archive=yes
>>
>>
>> in 2016 you claim "this
>>is our first year hunting
>>Idaho". Now in 2019 you
>>say you've been hunting Idaho
>>for 6 years. So were
>>you lying in 2016 or
>>are you lying now. or
>>maybe you suck at math
>>that 12 year olds are
>>proficient at. lol.....lol.....lol.....
>
>LOL?? The guy is an absolute


>troll.


I believe the first year I hunted there was 2015. I don't exactly remember. You better hold the Senate hearing. Behind closed doors LOL. So if it was 2015 this would have been my fifth year. Excuse me for being 12 months off LOL you guys are something special. Really really special

The Buck I shot in Colorado is definitely a different looking rack.

It's a 5 x 3 with a 27 inch spread even though it's missing its main beam on its left side. Probably bigger than anything you have ever shot :)
 
>Come on Aspen! Starving deer in
>July. Let's talk about it.
>


Never said they were starving in July. Simply stating that traditional mule deer habitat is being affected. They are not in the area as they would be if they were not overgrazed.

As I said the state of Idaho admits that they could carry double the deer on the unit.

Regardless of who is starving there is a set of standards that they are not following. They are rules. And the rancher should lose his permit if he doesn't follow the rules he agreed he would follow. Regardless of which bird or deer is going hungry or not. He agreed to the rules and he is robbing from the public every time he allows his cows to eat the grass down to the dirt.

Why would you defend someone like that? Especially being a sportsman or a conservationist?
 
If the first year you hunted Idaho was 2015 then you hit it at it's peak and now you've seen it at a valley. 2015 and 2016 were two of the best years in recent memory for hunting mule deer in Idaho. In fact the herd numbers were over objective by than time. According the state mule deer management plan which sets the criteria for how many does can be harvested, the population was at the point that IDFG could have allowed an either-sex general season.

In the spring of 2016 I sat in 2 meetings where population status and doe harvest were discussed. The population was high enough to allow a portion of the season to be either-sex. IT was also suggested that the season could be extended by one week to a total of three weeks.

The majority of hunters in both meetings I attended and across the region opposed both proposals. They didn't want the season to be longer because they thought that the older bucks would be too vulnerable during the last week of October. They opposed the either-sex season because they said the hunting was finally good again so why kill does. IDFG responded that the population was the highest it had been in over 20 years and if hunters didn't kill more does, the next hard winter would kill even more.

Despite having the scientific data to support both proposals IDFG did something that a lot of blowhards claim never happens, they did what the hunters wanted. The season remained two weeks long and doe harvest was only allowed for youth hunters. That doesn't sound like and agency that only cares about selling tags to me.
Then as predicted by IDFG, the next winter killed 80% of fawns and 20% of does. That's a bad winter for you. Not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last.

I provided you with almost 20 years of harvest data showing that this cycle repeats itself and that the herd numbers will rebound with a few more years of mild winters. I also showed you that IDFG responded to the 2016-2017 winter by eliminating all doe harvest in that unit and most others in the region.

Whether or not the summer range is being over-grazed is a non issue for the mule deer. It is the winter range that determines the carrying capacity of the area.

You have made up your mind and nothing can change it. So go ahead General Custer, this is the valley of the Little Bighorn and it's just a small village of women and children over that hill, have at 'em.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-06-19 AT 11:03AM (MST)[p]>
>
>I believe the first year I
>hunted there was 2015. I
>don't exactly remember. You better
>hold the Senate hearing. Behind
>closed doors LOL. So if
>it was 2015 this would
>have been my fifth year.
>Excuse me for being 12
>months off LOL you guys
>are something special. Really really
>special
>


LMAO!!!!

So in 2016 when you said ?this is our first year hunting Idaho? you just forgot that you hunted Idaho the previous year? Yea that makes perfect sense.
 
"Whether or not the summer range is being over-grazed is a non issue for the mule deer. It is the winter range that determines the carrying capacity of the area."

Exactly. Thank you for that whole response.
 
Cattle Ranchers in Idaho run the show. I can go to Wyoming and have great feed and see lots of deer. Cross over into Idaho literally 5 miles away and grazed to the ground and no deer. When deer head into winter without enough reserves, whats on the winter range wont make a difference.
 
>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19
>>AT 05:12?PM (MST)
>>
>>>https://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-..._thread&om=2981&forum=DCForumID37&archive=yes
>>>
>>>
>>> in 2016 you claim "this
>>>is our first year hunting
>>>Idaho". Now in 2019 you
>>>say you've been hunting Idaho
>>>for 6 years. So were
>>>you lying in 2016 or
>>>are you lying now. or
>>>maybe you suck at math
>>>that 12 year olds are
>>>proficient at. lol.....lol.....lol.....
>>
>>LOL?? The guy is an absolute
>
>
>>troll.
>
>
>I believe the first year I
>hunted there was 2015. I
>don't exactly remember. You better
>hold the Senate hearing. Behind
>closed doors LOL. So if
>it was 2015 this would
>have been my fifth year.
>Excuse me for being 12
>months off LOL you guys
>are something special. Really really
>special
>
>The Buck I shot in Colorado
>is definitely a different looking
>rack.
>
>It's a 5 x 3 with
>a 27 inch spread even
>though it's missing its main
>beam on its left side.
>Probably bigger than anything you
>have ever shot :)

So now your not only an authority on wildlife & ranching your also an authority on the size deer people shoot. Aspen you are truly a tool!! I don't need to post pictures or brag about the size deer that I have taken to prove my manhood!! You go ahead & pound your chest tough guy. I look forward to getting on the sight each night & read your post so I can get a good laugh. Have a good one Aspen!
 
>Maybe Trump should have gone to
>DC and just kept his
>mouth shut and listened to
>the SWAMP tell him how
>to do things since it
>has been done over hundreds
>of years.?
>
>No
>
>Look it is simple
>
>Deer are under objective. Dont
>hunt them till they are
>over.
>Done
>
>NOW YOU STFU :)

Did you show up and hunt' pressure the animals? Be there to take a shot if the right one presented? It is simple. Do you part. Buy the tag to close out the quota, eat the tag.

Ok now you can have a BFMOSTFU. (first part is big frosty mug of..)


4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>>:)
>>
>>Hi guys. So glad
>>to see you here.
>>
>>Lets breakdown your arguments and look
>>for facts.
>>
>>Lets start by saying. I
>>came home from Idaho and
>>immediately went to a unit
>>just out of SLC to
>>hunt. Took 2 points
>>to draw. FOUND DEER
>>EVERYWHERE. You all call
>>us Utards. Well...the tards
>>are kicking your azz at
>>deer management. If you
>>cant do better than a
>>tard does that make you
>>dumber than a tard?
>>Indeed :) Congrats Idaho...you
>>are tardeder lol
>>
>>Allrighty then!
>>
>>lots of you went after my
>>number of 500 to 400
>>does in 5 years....lets take
>>a looooookie see....
>>
>>year 1) 500 does have
>>750 fawns....some have twins or
>>two babies and some dont....
>>so 750 is good...then multiply
>>by 0.55 survival... so 500+(750
>>x 0.55 survival and then
>>0.5 are doe) = 706
>>does for year 2....
>>
>>year 2) 706 doe .... (706
>>x 1.5) = 1059 fawns
>>
>>then 1059 x 0.55 x 0.5
>>= 291 additional doe so....
>>706+291 = 997 then
>>add 500 doe if you
>>want to see what the
>>current slaughter is doing....so 997+500
>>= 1797 does headed into
>>year 3 that you dont
>>have under the current managment
>>plan.
>>
>>year 3) 1797 doe
>>x 1.5 birth rate =
>>2695 fawns
>>then 2695 x 0.55 x 0.5
>>= 741 additional does.
>>1797 doe + 741 doe =
>>2538 doe + 500 doe
>>not killed = 3038 doe
>>
>>
>>year 4) 3038 doe x
>>1.5 = 4557 fawn
>>4557 x .55 x .5
>>= 1253 additional doe
>>3038 + 1253 = 4291 total
>>doe + 500 not killed
>>= 4791 doe for year
>>5
>>
>>year 5) 4791 doe x
>>1.5 = 7187 fawn
>>7187 x 0.55 x 0.5
>> = 1976 additional
>>doe
>>1976 + 4791 = 6767 total
>>does + 500 not killed
>>= 7267 total doe
>>
>>You guys will pick this apart....so
>>lets just say it's only
>>half as good.....are 4000 doe
>>worth fighting for?
>>
>>3000?
>>
>>2000?
>>
>>Over the 5 years alone the
>>state will kill 2500 doe.
>>
>>
>>So, not too tough to think
>>that 2500 doe will become
>>5000 or 7500. Get
>>over it. Even if
>>it is one doe.....at this
>>point why arent you arguing
>>to protect and preserve and
>>promote the deer herd that
>>has been decimated?
>
>So let's take your math and
>scale it to the whole
>doe population. I know you
>watch shark tank so you
>know what scaling is.
>
>Assumption:
>500 does become 7267 in five
>years
>
>Pop estimate (from IDFG chart above)
>is 13,500 does or 27
>times the 500 killed.
>So:
>27 x 7267 = 196209
>Lets subtract the 7267 that are
>not produced by the dead
>deer.
>196,209 - 7267 = 188,942
>
>Therefore:
>13500 does will become
>188,942 does in five years even
>with the continued doe harvest
>of 500/year.
>
>Conclusion:
>Stick with Amway or whatever multi-level
>marketing scheme you're into. Your
>math is beyond over simplified.
>
>
>Again, I'm not saying they should
>be killing does. I'm saying
>leave the population estimate stuff
>to the biologists.
>
>
14315screenshot20191031111246chrome.jpg

>
>
28421screenshot20191031111414chrome.jpg



This is pure genius. Plus, the pyramid is the strongest geometric shape for holding up a load and spreading it equal over the bases. What we need is a seminar to go over the particulars, with free things like a time share conference.

4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>>>LAST EDITED ON Nov-05-19
>>>AT 05:12?PM (MST)
>>>
>>>>https://www.monstermuleys.info/cgi-..._thread&om=2981&forum=DCForumID37&archive=yes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> in 2016 you claim "this
>>>>is our first year hunting
>>>>Idaho". Now in 2019 you
>>>>say you've been hunting Idaho
>>>>for 6 years. So were
>>>>you lying in 2016 or
>>>>are you lying now. or
>>>>maybe you suck at math
>>>>that 12 year olds are
>>>>proficient at. lol.....lol.....lol.....
>>>
>>>LOL?? The guy is an absolute
>>
>>
>>>troll.
>>
>>
>>I believe the first year I
>>hunted there was 2015. I
>>don't exactly remember. You better
>>hold the Senate hearing. Behind
>>closed doors LOL. So if
>>it was 2015 this would
>>have been my fifth year.
>>Excuse me for being 12
>>months off LOL you guys
>>are something special. Really really
>>special
>>
>>The Buck I shot in Colorado
>>is definitely a different looking
>>rack.
>>
>>It's a 5 x 3 with
>>a 27 inch spread even
>>though it's missing its main
>>beam on its left side.
>>Probably bigger than anything you
>>have ever shot :)
>
>So now your not only an
>authority on wildlife & ranching
>your also an authority on
>the size deer people shoot.
>Aspen you are truly a
>tool!! I don't need to
>post pictures or brag about
>the size deer that I
>have taken to prove my
>manhood!! You go ahead &
>pound your chest tough guy.
>I look forward to getting
>on the sight each night
>& read your post so
>I can get a good
>laugh. Have a good one
>Aspen!

You guys brought up the size of the deer dumb bass.
 

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