Idaho is Scrambling

grizzly

grizzly

Long Time Member
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Did everybody get the letter from Idaho trying to get more non-resident hunters to buy tags?

It basically says that non-residents account for over 70% of the IDFG Budget and nobody is coming to hunt this year. They blame it on lack of game, overcrowding, wolves, and the poor economy.

I just hope they don't put too much of the blame on the economy, because the number of non-resident hunters will stay down as long as the hunting experience stays down. If Idaho hunting was as good as it used to be, people would find a way to come up with the money, even in this economy.

If an environmentalist had begged me to come up with the worst possible game management plan for the SE Region, I still couldn't have decimated the herds as effectively as IDFG has done. Then, to account for it with game objectives, they shorten the season and cram more people into less area. (By lifting the non-resident cap and closing area 70 and 78)

I hope Idaho residents are ready to have their tag/license fees skyrocket, because IDFG is out of money. It is not worth $1,000 in OTC tags for me and my wife to hunt there anymore. Obviously, I'm not alone.

Their website says as of Sept. 25th they still had more than half their deer tags, 1/3 of their elk tags, and every one of their whitetail tags available. These tags are typically sold out by late July, except a few elk tags in the wolf zones.

Sorry for the rant. But I miss hunting in Idaho. Our hunting party used to fork over thousands of dollars to IDFG and local merchants every year, and we loved it (and we didn't even shoot many deer). I would happily pay the increased fees. Just give us our hunting back.

Grizzly
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-09 AT 04:40PM (MST)[p]I got my letter, I agree with you completly. I can remember when you had to buy your nonres deer tag within a couple of weeks of when they went on sale in january to get one. But back then they had a deer herd!
 
Good points. I think Idaho G & F would like to hear feedback on why us, as non-res., do not want to hunt Idaho this year and maybe years to come. My reason is too steep of tag prices for the quality of hunt. Plus, with personal budget crunches I have had to trim down on the number of hunts I go on annually. There are some great hunts and nice country in Idaho, but I can't afford to buy a hunting license just to take a 10% chance of drawing the tag and at this point, I don't want to fight the crowds on a general season hunt. I know there are some decent public general season spots still, but I will save my vacation time for states that manage for a better quality hunt. I hope IGFD realize they have finally reached a breaking point that most non-res. have said, "it ain't worth it". I am not saying a point system is the answer; however, I believe that building back some quality would sure go a long ways...

Is Salmon F&G (I'm sorry if that isn't your the proper username)still lurking mm? What is your take on the matter?
 
Grizzly, you are going to get some people on here saying that the money will still come in because the residents can buy a second tag at the non-res price. But they forget that a non-res lic. is $155 and the application fees have went through the roof too. Even if they were to sellout (not likley at this point) with residents buying the last 6000 deer tags there is still about $1 million that the IDFG is losing out on in non-res lic.& app fees, not to mention $ for the local economy.
Also there will probably be some people who will say that you are wrong about the quality of hunting going down, and that they see just as many trophy animals as ever, that you are just not hunting as hard or as smart as they are. But even with myself being a young guy and only hunting Idaho since the late 90's I have seen a decline in the last decade or so. And according to my Grandfather in-law who has lived in and hunted Idaho since the 80's it is a shame what has happened to the Deer herds.
So I would say I agree with your post and until IDFG begins addressing some of the problems (cutting tags not shortening seasons,managing its OTC tags better,etc..), or comes up with a point system for the controlled hunts, myself and alot of other hunters will spend our $ and time elsewhere.
 
Good news IDFG told me about 2 weeks ago. Still alot of Non-res tags available to residents. My guess is guys you're going to miss Idaho hunting for along time to come, maybe forever. I don't know what they're gonna do about their deer herd, they have certainly screwed it up. The wolves have affected them a little, but not as much as people first thought. The elk herds are quickly disappearing in the wolf zones, which is now about half the state. I really believe Idaho will be lucky to be harvesting 5,000 elk a year by hunters in 10 years. Last year was down to 15,000 compared 25,000 pre-wolf years. I'm not worrying about them raising my fees to this resident, because if the hunting is rotten what's the point in buying any more Idaho hunting licenses or tags, resident or non-resident!
 
Was this letter received recently, because I received mine 2-3 months ago. I too thought them pushing a possible wolf hunt was interesting. So, I should drop another $186 for a wolf tag in case my elk hunt blows again. This will more than likely be our parties last year as well. Hoping for a miracle as we really do enjoy hunting there. Just not going to throw money away every year.
 
I gave them my feedback. Told them it is a slap in the face to just increase nonresident prices 20% without increasing resident too. Just gouge the nonresidents for more....They are rich, they can afford it! I can understand needing more money, but please, make it an across the board thing.
 
I actually believe that lowering the non resident prices would increase hunters. Give them a reason to make the drive. Raising the prices to make up for less hunters will hurt much more than lowering the price and selling out all the tags. I would reconsider if the price was right.
 
It's been at least 10 years since I hunted in Idaho. It sounds like it will be at least another 10 years before I do it again. Most of the residents I came across while hunting will be glad to hear it.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
I hunted Idaho about 8 years ago and was dissapointed with the lack of game. And that was before the wolves were an issue. Hopefully Idaho's Fish and Game will pull their heads ouit of their butts before its too late. There are other states who have done well whose examples they can follow. fatrooster.
 
Well brotheren I couldn't agree more with you all. I am a resident of Idaho and I do me "do diligence" every year and I tell you what I am sitting here a week before the hunt starts sctrathing my head. Our fish and game really sucks and me and my hunting party could see this a mile a away. we to are hunting out of state. I hope they can figure things out so I can take my kids hunting one day.
 
Sounds like one of the Western states finally priced themselves out of the market with skyrocketing tag fees and application fees! I am glad it finally happened!!!! This mess escalates higher and higher every year with pretty much every Western state including my state. I hope the other states are paying attention. Maybe someday they will all learn that nonresidents aren't a never ending stream of revenue that they can tap whenever they feel like it.

I have a $100 to bet someone that the G&F will implement a point system within the next 2 years because of this loss of revenue debacle. Afterall, the legislature already gave the approval to implement a point system. Save up guys because a point system is in the near future, like it or not.
 
You hit the nail on the head. Idaho needs to learn management and find a way to fund their budget other than selling more tags for less game. I live in the heart of Idaho with 3 kids. People cant understand why I take my kids to other states to hunt. Its real easy. Other states manage game. Idaho just kills it-mostly cows and does! Sure wish our bioligist would learn from other states.
 
i GOT MINE AND AGREE WITH YOU OUR PARTY DECIDED BEFORE THE INCREASE THAT THE ELK HUNTING ISN'T WORTH THE OLD FEES WHEN YOU SEE WOLFS MORE THAN ELK
 
I agree that the price increases were a slap in the face. What did they expect us to do... especially in this economy? I was blown away when I saw all of the increases for non-resident licenses (fishing and hunting).
 
I bougt my non-res general deer tag and I'm trying to stay optimistic about the coming season. But I have been watching the remaining non-res tag quota numbers on the F&G website and noticed how many they still had left - over half the deer tags are unsold as on 9/25/09. I'm fairly new to hunting Idaho, but I'm not surprised that the tags aren't selling with low game numbers and huge hike in tag prices.

Was it me or did the F&G post the 2008 hunt stats for the general units really late this year? I didn't see them posted until late August, and I thought they always provided them much earlier. Obviously the 2008 success stats were fairly poor overall for the general units. It almost seems like they posting the stats late on purpose to try and sell the 2009 tags.

Good luck to anyone hunting this season!
 
I too think they will implement a point system, but they are missing the point (pun intended).

Non-residents will buy the licenses and apply and if unsuccessful, just hunt OTC, it used to be worth it. The problem isn't the poor economy, or lack of a point system...it's lack of game.

If you build the herds, the hunters will come.

Most areas allow archery elk hunting during the rut, and if you don't tag out, just get a rifle and kill a cow on winter range in deep snow. What an idiotic way to manage a herd. You can't kill cows with OTC tags and expect to keep high herd numbers.

PS. Even though I own a 4-wheeler, I do support IDFG's ban on 4-wheelers while hunting. That is a start in the right direction.

Grizzly
 
I have lived and hunted in Idaho since 1980. I am not sure a point system is the answer. They need to focus on restoring the herds to what they used to be. They have always been reactive, and need to become proactive before it is too late. Never have they fought to restore the browse the animals need in the panhandle and clearwater/lochsa regions through prescribed burning, and until 6 weeks ago wouldnt admit that there were wolves in the state at all. They blame everything on hard winters, but refused to admit the problem was the decimation of the herds on thier wintering ranges by the wolves. Wolf season is a step in the right direction, but I have only heard of 4 being killed. I hope it is not too late to turn things around, I miss what we had.
 
Called the F&G for some info on unit 41. Seems the Bio for that area has never been in unit 41. Hello, hard to manage a herd when you know nothing about the area or don't do any population study's.
"We just manage the area like we always have" ??????
 
"I think Idaho G & F would like to hear feedback on why us, as non-res., do not want to hunt Idaho this year and maybe years to come."

That was the exact reason for the survey of nonresident hunters earlier this year. The survey went primarily to those who had hunted Idaho in the past, but had not purchased licenses for 2009. The survey went to 30,000 hunters, but less than 2,600 replied (<9%). The newsletter is follow-up to the survey to share the information IDFG received. Apparently the top 3 reasons given for not hunting Idaho this year were concerns over wolf impacts, the fee increase, and the poor economy.

I don't want to start an argument about quality vs. quantity/opportunity, but I will say that Idaho, like all wildlife agencies, has a very diverse customer base, often with conflicting desires for wildlife management. So, at any point in time, some portion of the customers are going to be unhappy. Agencies try to (and are legally bound to) provide a reasonable balance among all the different competing interests within the biological constraints.

With regard to the specific complaints about the fee increase being applied only to nonresidents, I can only say that the state legislature has final say on fees, not IDFG. The original legislation included fee increases for both residents and nonresidents. And the proposed fee structure also included some differential pricing between general and controlled hunts (similar to the approach in Utah and New Mexico). The legislature decided on a different fee schedule.

I probably shouldn't argue about fee changes either, but I'll ask a few questions. Are you paying the same for gasoline, health insurance, bread, electricity as you were in 2005 (last time fees increased)? Are your wages the same as they were in 2005? The costs of purchasing fish food, hiring helicopters, buying gas, and paying for health insurance have certainly increased for fish and wildlife agencies. So, in a simplistic way, agencies can either ask legislatures to increase budgets (increase fees) or raise less fish, fly fewer hours to survey herds, drive less (fewer surveys, less law enforcement, etc.), and layoff employees (also fewer surveys, less law enforcement, slower customer service). In reality, both have/are happening. If funding does not meet budgets, there will be have to be further reductions in services.


Tom Keegan
IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-09 AT 01:24PM (MST)[p]>
>PS. Even though I own a
>4-wheeler, I do support IDFG's
>ban on 4-wheelers while hunting.
> That is a start
>in the right direction.
>
>Grizzly


Grizzly, I wasn't aware of this. I do know in our area it is overrun with them. You can't go anywhere they aren't. And found out from a Nice Game Officer last year that Road Closed, doesn't actually mean that. ATV's are actually allowed under the gates from what we were told. Makes it hard to walk a few miles up a road closure, set up in a nice quiet area, just to have a quad come up the road. We also have a gate up one of the canyons we like to hunt that is supposed to be closed October 3rd to allow elk to migrate. We showed up 4 days before the hunt (11/1) and the gate was wide open. We were told they decided to leave it open because they received too many complaints of people driving around it. Nice work guys.

What does this "Ban" pertain to?
 
You can find it in the rule book. It is active in most units with heavy hunting and abundant roads. It simply states you cannot travel on any road not capable of being traveled upon by a "full size vehicle."

So you can drive your quad up the main roads that access campsites (as long as it is big enough for a full size pickup), but not the dirtbike and 4-wheeler trails that are on nearly every ridge and in every canyon.

So far, I have not seen the rule enforced though.

Grizzly
 
I never said a point system was the answer. I was making my point that this huge loss of revenue will likely be the catalyst that causes G&F to implement a point system.
 
>












i see your point of the increasing fees , but what is the sportsmen getting for there dollars now days, you cant honestly say or have data to back up the fact that deer and elk numbers in most if not all units are going south in a hurry, mature males of both species are in great decline, atv use out of control,how much more money does f&g want from us and what big plan do you have to insure the populations and quality come back to levels even 5 years ago. i have hunted the west side of the state for 20 years,from boise to lewiston, i own mules, motorcycles, we are very success ful , the last 2 years we have hunted everyday of elk and deer seasons, scouted all summer, and the animals are not there, there sure is in increase in wolves and bears, can find them most any day, how many hunters dollars are being used to deal with wolves, how many dollars are non hunters spending on a watchable wildlife license? whee is the future? the future i see is a total controlled hunt state like nevada with very few tags, less money for f&g,,,you can pm me with details
















"I think Idaho G & F
>would like to hear feedback
>on why us, as non-res.,
>do not want to hunt
>Idaho this year and maybe
>years to come."
>
>That was the exact reason for
>the survey of nonresident hunters
>earlier this year. The
>survey went primarily to those
>who had hunted Idaho in
>the past, but had not
>purchased licenses for 2009.
>The survey went to 30,000
>hunters, but less than 2,600
>replied (<9%). The newsletter
>is follow-up to the survey
>to share the information IDFG
>received. Apparently the top
>3 reasons given for not
>hunting Idaho this year were
>concerns over wolf impacts, the
>fee increase, and the poor
>economy.
>
>I don't want to start an
>argument about quality vs. quantity/opportunity,
>but I will say that
>Idaho, like all wildlife agencies,
>has a very diverse customer
>base, often with conflicting desires
>for wildlife management. So,
>at any point in time,
>some portion of the customers
>are going to be unhappy.
>Agencies try to (and are
>legally bound to) provide a
>reasonable balance among all the
>different competing interests within the
>biological constraints.
>
>With regard to the specific complaints
>about the fee increase being
>applied only to nonresidents, I
>can only say that the
>state legislature has final say
>on fees, not IDFG.
>The original legislation included fee
>increases for both residents and
>nonresidents. And the proposed
>fee structure also included some
>differential pricing between general and
>controlled hunts (similar to the
>approach in Utah and New
>Mexico). The legislature decided
>on a different fee schedule.
>
>
>I probably shouldn't argue about fee
>changes either, but I'll ask
>a few questions. Are
>you paying the same for
>gasoline, health insurance, bread, electricity
>as you were in 2005
>(last time fees increased)?
>Are your wages the same
>as they were in 2005?
> The costs of purchasing
>fish food, hiring helicopters, buying
>gas, and paying for health
>insurance have certainly increased for
>fish and wildlife agencies.
>So, in a simplistic way,
>agencies can either ask legislatures
>to increase budgets (increase fees)
>or raise less fish, fly
>fewer hours to survey herds,
>drive less (fewer surveys, less
>law enforcement, etc.), and layoff
>employees (also fewer surveys, less
>law enforcement, slower customer service).
> In reality, both have/are
>happening. If funding does
>not meet budgets, there will
>be have to be further
>reductions in services.
>
>
>Tom Keegan
>IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager
 
The biggest problem I ran into was that even thought the 4-wheeler ban was in place everywhere I went there were 4-wheelers. It was really frustrating to walk in a trail with a sign on it saying no 4-wheelers just to get 4 or 5 miles back in and find a bunch of four wheelers at the end of the trail. There is no one policing the law!!!! And as a nonres you know as well as I do if I had broken the law and taken my four wheeler in there and got caught they would throw the book at me.
 
The core problem with your argument (things have increased) Is they have not increased at the same rate as your tags have...

I used to hunt No. ID every year...I have since, quit hunting ID as the tags are just not worth it...

The last year I hunted there, we had our camp get canvassed by three wolves...literally brushing up next to the tent while we were in it...Would have just them had it not been for my pistol being in my saddle panier...

the last three years we hunted this area, there was noticable loss of elk, and tremendous loss of mule deer...

So, why buy combo tags for an area that you are fighting with the wolves, who dont have to pay to hunt, and they do it year round...
 
ya the 4 wheeler law in so. Idaho is a joke. I can tell you what is parked at the end of 90% of the closed logging roads.strangely enough, none I have ran into have non-res tags...
 
I agree reddog I never saw one nonres on a wheeler but all the residents I know have no fear of that law because they know it is not enforced
 
Like I said earlier, we talked to a Game Officer last year during our hunt. Was a really nice guy, actually the guy who is in the article regarding one of the first wolves being checked. Anyway, he stopped in our camp to see how we were doing. We stood in the light drizzle for about 45 mins. and discussed our concerns about what we were seeing. And as non residents, is what leading to us looking at not hunting in Idaho any more. He was sorry to hear about what we had seen, and said he does the best he can. And not in a lazy, acting like he is working his tail off way, I really believed he is and was. I could tell it drove him as crazy as it did us, because after all, he was a hunter himself.

But, he told us those old logging roads that have Road Closed signs on them do not pertain to ATV's. Hell, we even saw a group of kids up there the last day of deer season on a golf cart. It is very frustrating thinking you are walking into an area free of quads, just to have some guy come up, after your 2 miles back, on a quad. He said they were looking to add more information to the signs that indicated quads were alright. Which for me, even though I hate it, I would know where they can and can't be. As of Labor Day weekend, the signs had not been updated.

He was nice enough to put us in touch with a few different biologists to get more information on the elk herds in our area, and that has continued throughout the year. Like I said, was a real nice guy, and I could tell he felt our pain. But, the bottom line is the quality of the hunt. And if ours is anywhere close to what we experienced last year, we're done. I know Residents love hearing about Non's staying out, but considering how much money we dump in collectively during hunting season, trust me...it's not a good thing.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-09 AT 05:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-09 AT 05:41?PM (MST)

It's a shame Idaho is so far behind the times. A point system would help to get some NR's to return but better hunting will be what makes everyone come back.

How they count their Big Game herds must be some kind of new math. Modeling is what they call it. Fly around see a few animals and multiply by 10 or 100. Who actually believes there are still 115,000 Elk left here?

Why don't they count herds like other states so they can adjust the tags accordingly. Why? It's all about money. The herds here are managed for opportunity. I guess hiking the hills with a weapon hoping you might come across a decent deer or Elk is opportunity.

The problem is the non residents have finally figured it out. They aren't going to spend their money here. If I was a NR I'd rather go to Colorado or Utah, Oregon or Montana for an OTC Elk tag than come here.

This state has the genetics to produce trophy animals and lots of them. There is nothing wrong with the Habitat. Too many tags for too many years and now Wolves have ruined this state.
Can it rebound? Anything's possible I guess but the F$G needs new direction.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-01-09 AT 05:49PM (MST)[p]We have a family cabin at Bearlake ( utah-Idaho line South east sense 1954)anyway,I used to hunt idaho at least every other year for deer,bear,turkey (never did draw a LE elk tag)but when they just started rising up the prices on Non-Res the way they did, and then on the ATV rules that seemed to apply only to Non_res.I haven,t been back. I now hunt colo,wyo,south D and looking to start Oregon (should have a LE bear tag next spring,didn,t draw the tag this year)granted I had to make some adjustments for the eco.but they can have Idaho.not bitter just the way I feel.~Danny Also the herds are a joke,if we could just put them in-charge of Iran,afG etc,lol.
 
Well I must add my 2 cents to this as well. Opening day of the season was like christmas morning to me, even into my later years. I took it to the next level and guided for several years. I could'nt get enough. Well with the wolf issues, too many tags, poachers, ect. I must admit that I lost my enthusiasim for the hunt. I havent purchased a tag in 3 years. I know several people who have given up and found other interests. The best I can hope for now, is that things get turned around so that ten years from now, I can take my grandkids hunting and have something worth hunting for.
I also question the game counts. they don't seem to jive with what we are all not seeing. The deer and elk numbers seem drastically lower and yet the wolf numbers are obviously more than they admit. This problem did'nt happen over a couple of years, it has been brewing for several. The ranchers are starting to see an increase in livestock loss. Are the wolves running out of deer and elk and going for easier table fare?
I still have the desire or I wouldnt be in this forum.
 
I used to be an Idaho resident. I now live in Utah. I'd used to hunt Idaho every year - spending many days and loads of money there during the hunts. I'm now boycotting the state. Yes their management is a joke, but their raping of non-residents is even more insulting. Idaho would make MANY times more money by lowering non-resident fees and bringing us to the state to spend money the old fashioned way rather than by nailing us in license and tag fees.

Here's how much it costs non-residents to hunt deer and to fish in each of Idaho's neighboring states:

Utah: $348
Nevada: $439
Wyoming: $404
Montana: $343

And how much does it cost to do the same in Idaho? $541.75

And they actually wonder why non-residents aren't coming to hunt and fish?
 
SALMONFG - I have a question for you and please answer this from your heart of hearts. Do you believe that the wolf/elk problem will ever get better in Idaho? To me, the writing is on the wall - IT IS TOO LATE!! Folks, with the reproductive rate of the wolf compared to that of elk, it is only a matter of years before the only hunt-able population of elk will be will be in the very southern part of the state. This is not the most ideal habitat in many areas. With the way the courts and the environmentalist have tied our hands it will be a task only achieved by the Almighty himself. I am not saying give up, but you had better be praying for a miracle. People will get on here and say "what about the elk I shot in such and such an area that contains wolves"? - there will probably always be pockets here and there, but overall, they(elk) will be slowly but surely be phased out along with a way of life for many.
For those of you who disagree, would you be willing to place a bet on it and tell me how it is going to turn around? This is not Canada or Alaska for he!!'s sake!

30-30
 
"SALMONFG" Tom. You asked the question are we paying more for gas, insurance, bread, and electricity as we did in 2005.
Well no I don't pay the same, I pay more. But I still get a gallon of gas, I still am fully insured, the bread still comes in a loaf.
Would we still be paying more for these items if the store we want to go to asked us to pay first, then go see if the items we want are in stock? I don't think so. We would find a store that had the items, told us the price, and supplied what we want.
The simple fact is VALUE!!!! Idaho has a wild game resource. So does Utah, Nevada, and all the other states. How does Idaho's resource compare as far as VALUE goes.
It is my guess the IDFG is starting to get that answer from the Non Residents. Soon it will be getting that same answer for the residents. We all need to have expectations of success for there to be value in the hunting. No expectation for success no value. No value no sale.
Ron




>I probably shouldn't argue about fee
>changes either, but I'll ask
>a few questions. Are
>you paying the same for
>gasoline, health insurance, bread, electricity
>as you were in 2005
>(last time fees increased)?
>Are your wages the same
>as they were in 2005?
> The costs of purchasing
>fish food, hiring helicopters, buying
>gas, and paying for health
>insurance have certainly increased for
>fish and wildlife agencies.
>So, in a simplistic way,
>agencies can either ask legislatures
>to increase budgets (increase fees)
>or raise less fish, fly
>fewer hours to survey herds,
>drive less (fewer surveys, less
>law enforcement, etc.), and layoff
>employees (also fewer surveys, less
>law enforcement, slower customer service).
> In reality, both have/are
>happening. If funding does
>not meet budgets, there will
>be have to be further
>reductions in services.
>
>
>Tom Keegan
>IDFG Salmon Region Wildlife Manager
 
One huge difference between recreational options and basic necessities is that you have to pay the price for increased essentials.

Idaho's legislature not only hurt the IDFG with the nonresident only increase, but all the buisness that will suffer for the lack of nonresident hunters this year too..Gas stations, eateries, motels, stores, etc.....
 
I think I have a fix for the tag increases. If Idaho Game and Fish would give us Non Resident Hunters a free Wolf tag with the purchase of our Deer or Elk tags I would come back and hunt. Then when we don't find a Buck or Bull to harvest we still have a chance at a Wolf. The area that we have been deer hunting in for years has been devastated by the wolfs.
OMB


There's room for all of God's creatures, right next to the mashed potato's and gravy.
 
> If Idaho Game and Fish would give us Non Resident
> Hunters a free Wolf tag with the purchase of our
> Deer or Elk tags I would come back and hunt.

+1 I'd to that in a heart beat. I was totally going to go buy a wolf tag and hunting license and spend some time there trying to get one (and spending money in-state while in the process) until I saw they wanted $186 for a tag that costs $11.50 for residents. I prefer not being raped, thank you Idaho.
 
I've been watching this post for a while, and Idahoron summed it up pretty well. Its to the point that I'm unwilling to spend the license money on a 20-1 lottery ticket. I used to consider Idaho, my back up plan. Not any more. 2009 was the first year in about ten that I didn't apply for Idaho. I also do the apps. for a few friends. They sat out also. (Four non-res. hunting licenses that didn't get sold)
Idaho has itself in a bind. Less revenue = less services. Its a sad deal. I sure don't see an easy answer. I think a point system helps them in the short run by making people play the point game. It does nothing for the quality of animals. I'm sitting on the fence right now, but if points come into play, it might be a good time to forget about Idaho.

Don P.
 
I quit hunting Idaho in 2001, a decline in quality hunts,the obvious bias against nonresident hunters, and the ultra cheap resident tags are a sore spot with me. There are a lot of funny politics in that state.
 
Everyone keeps mentioning that wolves are to blame but very few have mentioned the unlimited over the counter cow tags that run for weeks. Whose brilliant idea was that? Am I the only one that sees a major problem with this? You can't kill all of the cows and maintain a decent herd.

When it comes to poor game and hunter management, Idaho wins hands down without any competition.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-09 AT 11:49AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Oct-04-09 AT 11:48?AM (MST)

Yup, Got my letter so did my 2 other hunting buddies. We have hunted Idaho for the past 18 years and loved it but now they have wolves everywhere and keep raising their non-residents tags...It's just not worth it anymore!!! If I am going to pay that kind of money I'm going to go where I have a chance at a good buck. Oh yeah, They raised the nonresident fees again this year....456.50 for tag and license!!!!
 
i wouldn't mind doing my part by shooting some wolves they are over run in some areas

[a href="http://www.mybinocularharness.com/"]binocular harness system[/a]
 
Idahoron... GREAT point..
I would like to add that if IDF&G would spend there money a little more wisely they might not need so much..
Take the f&g building in Nampa for instance,, It's a beauty alright I'll bet some architect made a pretty good chunk of dough To design that one, Not to mention the construction cost's for such a building.... And what about that sweet new indoor archery range next to the Jerome office?? It is used two maybe three times a year for archery certification classes,Heck when i went to my certification class we never shot one single arrow.
I used to go to school with a gal that works for the Nampa office and she was telling me about how F&G would fly her into mackay bar to enhance Chipmunk habitat...HUHHHH??? She answers phones and pushes a pencil,, It sounds silly enough that they are spending money on improving Chipmunk habitat,, But to fly somebody into the back country to help out that has ZERO qualifications for the task is ridiculous..And what the hell else they are throwing there money away on is any body's guess..
I have lived in Idaho my whole life and have hunted here for 35 of my 47 years,, And yea the quality and quantity of the animals from Chuckers to Elk have gone straight to hell in the last ten years..
Idaho IS NOT!!! a can do state.. I hate to say it but i am pretty much done with Idaho, I will buy a hunting lic. and put in for some draws but my days of buying a sportsman's package are over.. I have decided it will be Montana and Wyoming for big game, And Oregon and Nevada for birds..
About the best thing about Idaho these days is that we are surrounded by some great states that still have some quality hunting..
 
Who are the losers? I'd say it to be in this order; wildlife,residents,nonresidents,F&G and last the wolf. It look like everything that's involved including the wacko environmentalist and the economy will eventually play out. Only time will tell. The play has been in motion. We're at the point where actions are stronger than words(boycotting tags).

So far, the goals of the wacko environmentalist are ahead of the game. Their plan of having the wolf controlling all wildlife (every last deer and elk) is working and man will be left out of being part of the process (Hunters)!

Money seems to talk best. I can just see the F&G coming up with a point system to lure us hunters back. It's really all just a smoke screen. If you don't buy into the point system now then later on you'll be left out. It's all about getting money back into the system and not fixing the problem. ;-)


To All You Hunters of Idaho out there, I say, hold your ground and be stead fast. The Deer, Elk, Wolf and Money will come back eventually. The Cycle will come full circle in due time. But until then be patient (Daniel Son, Wax on, Wax Off) from the infamous words in the movie "Karate Kid" :)

quest
 
My uncle has a 8,000 acre cattle ranch in prime elk and deer hunting in SE Idaho. Slug Creek area. I have hunted this area for years. We have private property to hunt. A warm ranch house to stay. Unlimited archery elk hunting has caused so much pressure that elk are seldom vocal. Deer and elk quality and numbers are down. They had way too many cow tags the past few years. It's sad. I have a great place to hunt, and don't hunt it. Many great memories over the years. Have not bought a tag for the past 6-7 yrs. I hunt other states for better quality and cheaper prices. Even with the junior mentor prices, it's still not worth it to me. Wolf tag prices should be 5 dollars for Res and 10 dollars for non res. Coyotes contribute to poor fawn survial. Yet I have to spend 150 dollars to buy a license to shoot a coyote, which can help deer herds, which can provide better hunting.
TOM, please forward some of these comments to Idaho legistlators and the dirrector of IDF&G.
Thanks,
Greg
 
As of today, Idaho has 5,544 deer tags remaining at $455 each ($154 for license and $301 for tag).

Idaho also has 2,466 elk tags remaining at $570 each ($154 for license and $416 for tag).

(I know that some people have deer and elk tags on one license, and that would decrease lost revenue, but others would've bought fishing licenses as well, plus others would've bought various permits like archery or muzzleloader, so it is pretty close.)

Bottom line is that IDAHO WILDLIFE LOST $3,928,140 THIS YEAR ALONE. Idaho residents should be up in arms.

Grizzly
 
They've really got there act together! Maybe they'll raise prices again to make up the difference. They can keep their tags!

Don P.
 
>i know how they can solve
>the problem, very simple. LOWER
>THE DAM PRICE OF A
>TAG problem solved

and start to manage the herds, NOW!!
ridgeline outdoors prostaff
blacks creek guide gear prostaff
 
I don't think the "problem" is resident vs non resident or cheap vs expensive. The "problem" is the hunting is not that good anymore so it's not worth it at any price for anyone. The resident tags are not selling either. It is sad that residents of Idaho need to look into other states for a quality hunting experience.
 
Idaho F$G didn't really care about the quality of hunting until now. This will be a real eye opener for sure. With all the other great hunting out here in the West, why would any NR want to come here?

F$G needs new management and a new direction. Wolves have been thrown into the mix and they really couldn't do much about it until now. 225 Wolves, if they ever kill that many is a drop in the bucket.
There's more than likely 50% more than they are willing to count, maybe more.
The problem is they weren't pro active and everyone predicted what would happen. They were blind.
The only way to help the herds now is to reduce hunting pressure,tags and harvest numbers. It's time to cut tags and season lengths. I'd go so far as to close some units on a rotating basis to build deer and elk numbers then go to all controlled hunts.
These herds can't take being hunted with a bow in August through the late rifle and archery seasons.

NR's know their money is better spent elsewhere. Up to 4 Million dollars in lost tag/lisence sales is a big deal.Next year wont be any better.
I see a point system similar to Nevada's in the near future to try to lure some NR's back.
 
I'm a non-resident of Idaho, and I haven't hunted that state for over 10 years. When I did, the hunting was just so-so, not as good as I could find in other states. Also, I don't have any interest in elk hunting where there are wolves, unless I can get a wolf tag. Wolves are ruining big game herds across the west, and I choose to spend my discretionary dcllars on deer and elk hunting in places with robust populations of these animals, and older age class bucks and bulls.

Until Idaho changes their focus, I won't likely hunt there again unless it's for moose or sheep some day.
 
I am an Idaho resident. I am also disappointed in the hunting here lately. Some factors include...
Residents have taken part in surveys seeking replies to this central issue-should idaho manage for increased opportunity or trophy potential. The overwhelming answer is ALWAYS opportunity.
IDFG is beholden to residents only.

Now, environmentalists have forced wolves on the IDFG-IDFG did not request or wish for this added preditor. No one knows the true impact of wolves but I think we all agree it is negative.

4 wheeler use in Idaho has absolutely exploded in the last 15 years. Attempts are being made to check this problem but, if law abiding citizens refuse to obey laws, what can be done?

Housing developements are being built on historic wintering grounds reducing the CARRYING CAPACITY of winter range. You cannot just send out a memo to elk and deer saying they have to move to another area to winter. Herds have to be reduced- cow hunts are the simplest way to meet this goal. If herds are not reduced they will ALL starve!

I am not educated, but here is my solution:

As someone else said, give away wolf tags, or at least meet costs, say $5 each. More wolf hunters=less wolves=more game.

Reduce ATV traffic by 100%. Access to public land is a right, but zero motorized travel. Handicapped permits could be made available. As ugly as this sounds, there are a lot of lazy fat-a55es out there accessing game that could not walk to the fridge! People get old, that's life! Sieze all motorized vehicles and sell them at auction(increase revenue/decrease violations)

Winter range MUST be set aside. No more rich dudes from in state or out of state building multi-million dollar summer houses or hunting cabins on historic winter range. That little 20 acre ranch could feed 100 deer all winter if left as sagebrush but will not feed any if dozed and seeded so your wife likes the view.

I'm sure there is more we can do but that's for starters.
 
Last time I checked we still lived in a free country, although it has been changing fast. Maybe they have taken away private property rights!
 
The sad thing is Wyoming manages the game resource just like Idaho does, the main difference is Wyoming has a smaller resident population, and maybe the AG lobby is a little less powerful. Things change fast and those poorly written politically influenced hunter surveys don't really reflect what the issues are. Not only are they losing revenue, they are causing a decline in youth hunter retainment. If a kid has a good experience hunting, he will always have enthusiasm for the sport and for wildlife, A couple of poor quality trips, and they will find better things to do.
 
Frontier,

My apologies for not being clear.
In most of my examples, including the property example, I was trying to point out that every individual needs to understand their impact on their environment. Many of the landowners don't think they are impacting the herd at all but groups of landowners in 1 place can, unwittingly, devistate a herd. Then they complain, "there doesn't seem to be as many elk/deer around here as there used to be"! DUH!
 
We seem to have more game in town than we used to. There are alot more animals being fed on private ground than on state ground. (in my area). The predator numbers are at an all time high. The eagles have made a come back, and they do kill fawns. Bears are tenatious about looking for newborns. wolves are just all out killing machines. and the lions arent getting hunted because the houndsmen dont want to feed their dogs to the wolves. Last but not least, (this will tickle some attitudes) I'm not saying this to be selfish or ect. but the out of state hunters have become good at killing. 20 years ago they came, they spent lots of money in town and took home an elk or two. Now they come and set up big horse camps and hunt hard. some know the country better than some of us locals. They used to hire outfitters to hunt with. then they decided they could own their own stock and stay as long as they want. all of this equates to more animals harvested, just my opinion.
 
i have hunted there for a few years. not much game but lots of 4 wheelers.i had horses so got away from crowds. i can spend my money else where with more game no wolves. wolves will wipe out complete herds a wolfshouldg7 be a predator no tag needed shoot on site.i will not go back my son wont my grandson wontthat some money figure it out.not only licenses but gas an other stuff all of idaho suffers loss of revenue good luck u need new g7f managers
 
I used to be a resident but am now a nonresident. We still hunt ID just because we don't want to put the time in to scout and learn a new area, let alone a new state. As bad as Idaho is, it's still way better than Washington, where I'm living now, what a frickin' zoo.

The spike hunts are not helping the elk hunting one bit. why do the bow hunters get an extra week to pop a spike with a rifle after being given an entire month with a bow in many areas? It's moronic that in many areas where the number of draw rifle permits are being lowered, the bow permits in the same zones remained uncapped and these rifle spike hunts after the bow season are also uncapped.

Also, I can't see how the mule deer herds can rebound when they're still offering so many doe tags. Makes no sense.

One last thing. It's no coincidence that the number of nonresident tags bought fell when they jacked the prices up. I doubt the economy has a big an impact on nonresident tags bought as it did to the amount of second resident tags bought at the nonresident price. Tell me they're not selling out our herds with that stupid policy. Sure you can kill two elk and two deer as long as you fork over the money.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-31-09 AT 08:57PM (MST)[p]I'm an Idaho resident. I grew up putting deer/elk in the freezer for the winter. I was first in line to complain about the wolf, and the lack of game.

I was totally convinced that our herds were gone.

That is, until as of today, I completed my annual fall ritual of filling the freezer.

This past fall I hunted the same places as always (except for central Id.). I was amazed at how many animals I encountered. I don't know if I had just an incredible fortunate year, or if the wolves have run all the critters into the areas I hunted, or what. But I do know that I saw more animals than ever before. No trophies, but all adult male animals.

Now, I'm more confused than ever.

I do believe that the state of econimical affairs within the dept. of Fish and Game has to be crumbling. I realize that the loss of non resident hunters is damaging to our economy.

I'm not one who can afford to hunt out of state. I have nothing against those who can. I would have paid double for the quality/quantity I had this year. I'm curious if the lack of non residents this year had anything to do with my success.
I saw very few non residents, but saw lots of residents enjoying the same luck I had.

???
 
30% of the tags are still available (7153/23930). In the past, they would sell out by June or July.

According to IDFG, the harvest checkpoints were horrendous in the SE Region.

Grizzly
 
>30% of the tags are still
>available (7153/23930). In the
>past, they would sell out
>by June or July.
>
>According to IDFG, the harvest checkpoints
>were horrendous in the SE
>Region.
>
>Grizzly



That may be true in some zones but I've always waited till pretty late to by my res/non res tag. Never had a problem. Idaho has'nt completly sold out of non-res tags since I've been paying attention. Basically since whenever they made the non-res tags avasilable to residents.
 
If you want a deer tag, you can do an OTC late season archery (unit 55, I think) that is supposed to be a good time.

Grizzly
 
the reason out of state hunters are not going to Idaho is the price they raised the prices but not on residents hunters you will pay 15%more for tags i did not hunt it last year because of this no points in this state.
 

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