IMPORTANT - The Trail Camera Hearing is One week away

[Elkslayer2015]

? what a joke yet another uninforcable law

You wanna bet when people have to wait 25 years for a limited entry tag and they see that stuff going on.it’s enforceable

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So tell me what part of the new law I would be breaking by leaving up cameras that I am not using for the aid of take big game?

Yes you are you’re on a hunting page you can’t fool me.

 

[roadrunner]

Can you show me the data that shows trail cam use during hunting season INCREASES herds?

Never said it does, your question is a false narrative.

The benefit to wildlife is always to increase herd health which increases herd nose count. There is NO DATA supporting the restricted use of trail cameras to help increase herds in UT because this restricted use hasn't even had a full year of review yet.

The end result can very likely be skewed with two or three years of non-drought weather giving false evidence that the restricted use had a net positive effect. You cannot use Arizona's initiative on success because the weather, food, and water sources alone are two different dynamics between each state.

I said some would say it will help because it makes it more difficult to shoot breeder bucks and bulls as a means to support the restricted use. Your question to me insinuates that very claim with me providing proof that cameras have no effect, or even improves herd nose count. The battle cry for this decision is based on "put the hunt back into hunting" with many citing the challenge of the hunt and not herd health. There are a lot of people that kill big stuff without the use of cameras.

As of 3/11/2022 in the state of UT there is no information to support or refute the effect the restricted use period will have relative to this recent decision and change to game rules. As of today's date, it is all a matter of preference and someone's personal likes/dislikes.

Stop trying to twist my words to mean I support camera use unrestricted. That is why you're arguing with me, because you think that kiddo "got me"...

 

[hossblur]

I waterfowl.

Everyday there are start and end times. Can't have lead. Have to have a plug. Limits on types and amounts of birds.

On a good day, maybe one or two LEO covering the wetlands.

Everyday someone shoots early, or shoots late. I see lead hulls from time to time, as well as mud stomped ducks.

It's impossible to enforce, so I guess we should just not have any of it?

I hunt the Manti. There are 2 LEO from Fairview to Mayfield. There is ZERO chance they can enforce any big game reg, too few LEO.

So we better not have any regs, period. They are unenforceable.

 

[elkhunterUT]

So tell me what part of the new law I would be breaking by leaving up cameras that I am not using for the aid of take big game?

You won't be breaking any laws, but you probably won't have many working cameras to pick up either?‍ Your call chief

Some of you dudes need to just accept the reality of this and move on. Certainly give yourself some time to grieve and figure out how to help the children, but time to move forward and put some energy into things that will really help our herds.

 

[JakeH]

But which one actually killed the deer the bow or the cameras sitting 24/7/365? Isn't that what most of you peoples arguments were that trail cameras kill? Cameras can sit 24/7/365 but have never actually killed an animal pretty sure the hunter did.

No, I have never once said cameras kill, and I doubt you would be able to find any post on MM from anyone else that says that either.

Your bow doesn't kill either YOU DO! Go right ahead and set your bow on a water hole and see how many deer it kills without you there.

My argument is that cameras help the hunter target animals that they otherwise wouldn't know was there. It's a hell of alot harder to kill something if you don't even know it's in the area.

In my opinion this will help quality on all units. Will it save every big buck/bull? No it wont, but it gives them a better chance to elude hunters and live an extra year or two.

Personally I feel that more mature animals making it through the hunts will improve herd quality and quantity over time. Those bigger more mature animals are better at servicing females and lead to less 2nd and 3rd cycle breeding allowing more fawns/calves to drop at the same time which improves fawn/calf survival rates.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

So tell me what part of the new law I would be breaking by leaving up cameras that I am not using for the aid of take big game?

Where done here.
We disagree and that’s fine but this nonsense needs to stop
we are hunter’s and we all want bigger deer bigger bulls on the landscape.
I truly do wish the best of luck to you and your family.
Good luck on your hunt draws this year and be safe I hope you are successful.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

No, I have never once said cameras kill, and I doubt you would be able to find any post on MM from anyone else that says that either.

Your bow doesn't kill either YOU DO! Go right ahead and set your bow on a water hole and see how many deer it kills without you there.

My argument is that cameras help the hunter target animals that they otherwise wouldn't know was there. It's a hell of alot harder to kill something if you don't even know it's in the area.

In my opinion this will help quality on all units. Will it save every big buck/bull? No it wont, but it gives them a better chance to elude hunters and live an extra year or two.

Personally I feel that more mature animals making it through the hunts will improve herd quality and quantity over time. Those bigger more mature animals are better at serving females and lead to less 2nd and 3rd cycle breeding allowing more fawns/calves to drop at the same time which improves fawn/calf survival rates.

Good post jake spot on buddy

 

[muledeer]

I know that trail cams have helped me Kill animals, and I'm glad they have a season now. Over the last 30-40 years one variable that has changed is the technology, I agree we should limit it in all forms. For example In every sport I follow rules or technology has been adjusted, because of new tech.

 

[cannonball]

We are on the Hallelujah trail now. To me this is not about hunters, but about a few big buck making it through the seasons. It is not having your picture taken on every trail or waterhole on the mountain.
However, it is a small fraction of what needs to be done to help the Mule Deer. A Wildlife Board member, who will remain nameless,; told me there were at least five or more things that were more important for the deer than banning trail cameras to help the herds.
All I can say to the Wildlife Board is, "Git-em Done".

I think the next crusade needs to be control the bear. I think you would be shocked if you knew how many bear were on all of the mountains. Beaver Mountain deer took a nose dive as the bear population went up. A DWR biologist once told me that usually mountains kill what they eat. Bear on the other hand will steal coyotes or mountain lions kill and if that happens the lions will kill more animals to survive.

Lets be pro-active rather then reactive for our Mule Deer survival. You youngsters need to fight the fight. Most of you have never seen the good times when it comes to deer. Most of you just go along with what is said by other youngsters in power. Don't be sheep.
This is from one passive angry mule deer hunter.

 

[JakeH]

. A Wildlife Board member, who will remain nameless,; told me there were at least five or more things that were more important for the deer than banning trail cameras to help the herds.
All I can say to the Wildlife Board is, "Git-em Done".

Did he list what the other 5 things were? Out of curiosity?

 

[Elkslayer2015]

Did he list what the other 5 things were? Out of curiosity?

Jake I know for a fact it’s scopes on muzzleloader.
Then sliders on bows where brought up pretty heavy as well.

 

[BigBuckz]

Where done here.
We disagree and that’s fine but this nonsense needs to stop
we are hunter’s and we all want bigger deer bigger bulls on the landscape.
I truly do wish the best of luck to you and your family.
Good luck on your hunt draws this year and be safe I hope you are successful.

I agree so don't accuse a guy of breaking a law if he is doing something per the law.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I agree so don't accuse a guy of breaking a law if he is doing something per the law.

Sorry My bad fair enough.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Jake I know for a fact it’s scopes on muzzleloader.
Then sliders on bows where brought up pretty heavy as well.

Haha but we can keep our long range rifle setups? Bassakwards.

 

[Vitalwave]

Jake I know for a fact it’s scopes on muzzleloader.
Then sliders on bows where brought up pretty heavy as well.

It will be interesting to see if they bring those things up. Long Range Muzzleloaders I somewhat get but sliders on bows is kind of a stretch. Archery units already have a pretty dang low harvest rate. I would also be curious to see what their game plan is with limiting tech. Is there a target success rate goal on specific units? Lots of people on here saying we have become too good at killing but how much tag soup do we need before we decide success rates are low enough and restrictions on tech have met the goal? Rifle tags have the highest success rates of all weapon choices so do they need to go back to open sights? Just curious where all this ends when the dust settles?

 

[hossblur]

So tell me what part of the new law I would be breaking by leaving up cameras that I am not using for the aid of take big game?

Anyone noticed Buckz and Tri have never been seen together?

67 total posts, 2 cam threads ?

 

[BigBuckz]

It will be interesting to see if they bring those things up. Long Range Muzzleloaders I somewhat get but sliders on bows is kind of a stretch. Archery units already have a pretty dang low harvest rate. I would also be curious to see what their game plan is with limiting tech. Is there a target success rate goal on specific units? Lots of people on here saying we have become too good at killing but how much tag soup do we need before we decide success rates are low enough and restrictions on tech have met the goal? Rifle tags have the highest success rates of all weapon choices so do they need to go back to open sights? Just curious where all this ends when the dust settles?

It does not matter if they take scopes off muzzleloaders or sliders off bows. We missed the turning point on technology along time ago. If they really want to do something to manage and improve herds limit tags and days to hunt too match success rates. If they give you a tag but don't want you to use it then don't give the tags.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

Anyone noticed Buckz and Tri have never been seen together?

67 total posts, 2 cam threads ?

?makes one really wonder. I thought I saw big triPLE leaving the building yesterday at the trail cam meeting, but it may have been one of the Hushin boys just out on their lunch break.

 

[BigBuckz]

?makes one really wonder. I thought I saw big triPLE leaving the building yesterday at the trail cam meeting, but it may have been one of the Hushin boys just out on their lunch break.

View attachment 70880

It sure seems like you took alot of pictures from the meeting yesterday might have to start regulating it maybe a season or ban?

 

[smokepolejohnson]

I thought Don knocked it over the High Fence and out of the park yesterday with his remarks about trail cameras, and to think in 90 seconds he dropped his buddies net worth and even told us subtle story about his GulfStream G-660ER jet. His humble leadership is second to none.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

It will be interesting to see if they bring those things up. Long Range Muzzleloaders I somewhat get but sliders on bows is kind of a stretch. Archery units already have a pretty dang low harvest rate. I would also be curious to see what their game plan is with limiting tech. Is there a target success rate goal on specific units? Lots of people on here saying we have become too good at killing but how much tag soup do we need before we decide success rates are low enough and restrictions on tech have met the goal? Rifle tags have the highest success rates of all weapon choices so do they need to go back to open sights? Just curious where all this ends when the dust settles?

Your right and the Harvest success rate is extremely low.
But We never shot past 80 yards until new bows came out then the sliders.

We never had long range muzzleloaders until we put scopes on them.

Rifles yes they are by far the deadliest with the highest success rate.
But we can’t do for one and not the other.
we as hunters need to give a little on all sides.
they all need some adjustments.
so everyone is somewhat happy in the end.

Trail cameras in my opinion took from both sides for sure.
That’s my opinion for what it’s worth.

 

[Vitalwave]

It does not matter if they take scopes off muzzleloaders or sliders off bows. We missed the turning point on technology along time ago. If they really want to do something to manage and improve herds limit tags and days to hunt too match success rates. If they give you a tag but don't want you to use it then don't give the tags.

But what about the money...? Those people at the DNR living off the tag revenue have kids. I cant believe you would suggest such a thing... LOL

I agree with you on this. If you don't want people killing stuff then why print them a tag which is essentially a license to pursue and harvest and animal... Its really that simple.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

It sure seems like you took alot of pictures from the meeting yesterday might have to start regulating it maybe a season or ban?

I admit I was a little trigger happy with the pictures yesterday. Last one I promise, but when you have two respected patriots and mule deer enthusiasts it’s worth a picture.

 

[hossblur]

I thought Don knocked it over the High Fence and out of the park yesterday with his remarks about trail cameras, and to think in 90 seconds he dropped his buddies net worth and even told us subtle story about his GulfStream G-660ER jet. His humble leadership is second to none.wolves

View attachment 70882

When he got into wolves I was sure he was going to do a BGF fundraiser

No pic limits, you have great ones

 

[Vitalwave]

Your right and the Harvest success rate is extremely low.
But We never shot past 80 yards until new bows came out then the sliders.

We never had long range muzzleloaders until we put scopes on them.

Rifles yes they are by far the deadliest with the highest success rate.
But we can’t do for one and not the other.
we as hunters need to give a little on all sides.
they all need some adjustments.
so everyone is somewhat happy in the end.

Trail cameras in my opinion took from both sides for sure.
That’s my opinion for what it’s worth.

I just think its too subjective. If they start using data and run some pilot testing of some of this stuff before they just pull the trigger I think I (and a lot of other people) would be a lot more onboard.

 

[Elkslayer2015]

I just think its too subjective. If they start using data and run some pilot testing of some of this stuff before they just pull the trigger I think I (and a lot of other people) would be a lot more onboard.

I just think its too subjective. If they start using data and run some pilot testing of some of this stuff before they just pull the trigger I think I (and a lot of other people) would be a lot more onboard.

I agree on that as well. I hope they take the success rate into consideration.

I’m a avid bow hunter and enjoy my rifle hunting as well,the same goes for muzzleloader.
But I enjoy bow hunting more I would of never thought in a million years that bow hunting would be this advanced with technology as it is today.

Unfortunately us hunters have caused this problem we all want the latest and greatest tools in our box for what reason to be successful.
Who knows what will happen

 

[2lumpy]

I agree on that as well. I hope they take the success rate into consideration.

I’m a avid bow hunter and enjoy my rifle hunting as well,the same goes for muzzleloader.
But I enjoy bow hunting more I would of never thought in a million years that bow hunting would be this advanced with technology as it is today.

Unfortunately us hunters have caused this problem we all want the latest and greatest tools in our box for what reason to be successful.
Who knows what will happen

I sorry I’m afraid I have to disagree with your last paragraph. Hunters did not cause this problem. When you apply rules to humans, they don’t self regulate, especially when it’s for recreation and not survival. If it’s legal, 99% will do it. If the speed limit is set at 80 mph, they drive 80 or more, regardless of the proven fact that driving 55 mph is safer and less human lives are lost on the roads. If these technology devices are legal many people will use them……. because the regulations say they can. So it’s the regulators that have caused these problems be way of a lack of foresight, a lack of courage and or a lack of concern.

 

[cannonball]

Did he list what the other 5 things were? Out of curiosity?

Nope. Have no idea what they were. I was a little upset at the time.

 

[hossblur]

I sorry I’m afraid I have to disagree with your last paragraph. Hunters did not cause this problem. When you apply rules to humans, they don’t self regulate, especially when it’s for recreation and not survival. If it’s legal, 99% will do it. If the speed limit is set at 80 mph, they drive 80 or more, regardless of the proven fact that driving 55 mph is safer and less human lives are lost on the roads. If these technology devices are legal many people will use them……. because the regulations say they can. So it’s the regulators that have caused these problems be way of a lack of foresight, a lack of courage and or a lack of concern.

Naivety is fair.

No way could it be expected how rapidly we went from Hawkens, to LR muzzy. I really think there is always a hope of self moderation. I think the last few years, have been an awakening.

5 years ago, baiting wouldn't of entered my mind.

Nor FLIR.

You are older than I, did you think you'd see $300k for a deer tag? I didn't.


I hope, we can stop the RAPID inclusion of tech.

It is, the #1 thing man does to screw hunting.

3rd only to habitat and predators

 

[JakeH]

I admit I was a little trigger happy with the pictures yesterday. Last one I promise, but when you have two respected patriots and mule deer enthusiasts it’s worth a picture.

View attachment 70885

Is Doc OZ a muledeer enthusiast??? Lol

 

[JakeH]

Jake I know for a fact it’s scopes on muzzleloader.
Then sliders on bows where brought up pretty heavy as well.

Scopes on muzzys I can see. Slider sights..... I don't see that having much effect. People will just go back to 7-8 pins on there sight and do the same thing. We will see I guess.

 

[hossblur]

Is Doc OZ a muledeer enthusiast??? Lol

That's who that is?

Holy chit. Sometimes I'm sure I'm a hermit

 

[JakeH]

That's who that is?

Holy chit. Sometimes I'm sure I'm a hermit

I think lol. I know he's running for a senate seat somewhere and had seen him on the news a bit is the only reason I recognized him.

 

[Horsecorn]

Bigbuckz after the end of July I better not see a camera on a water hole cause it’s going to be busted with a hammer. hopefully it will be one of yours.

 

[BigBuckz]

Bigbuckz after the end of July I better not see a camera on a water hole cause it’s going to be busted with a hammer. hopefully it will be one of yours.

Well im not to concerned about you or your hammer. To find my cameras you will have to get away from a road and put in a little effort. I know your not going to put in half that much effort. Ill put my name on them for you let me know when you find it.

 

[Horsecorn]

Sounds good

 

[Bigwiffy]

@BigBuckz you do realize old Horsefart is 148 years old and is just trying to get your goat? Don't let these old codgers get under your skin. He's just ornery because he hasn't been able to see what size batteries his Stealth cam takes for the last 20 years.

 

[smokepolejohnson]

That's who that is?

Holy chit. Sometimes I'm sure I'm a hermit

He’ll be at the WHCE next year with Don allegedly shaking hands and pushing the SFW narrative, since Jeff Foxworthy is getting a little long in the tooth and Jim McMahon hasn’t been sober or coherent since the Clinton administration it totally makes sense. Dr. Oz epitomizes Utahs deer herds.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Nice job wildlife board! You guys have certainly won me over lately! Way to stand up to the outfitters.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Never trust a guy that curls his bangs....

 

[Bigwiffy]

Nice job wildlife board! You guys have certainly won me over lately! Way to stand up to the outfitters.

Haha c'mon Grizz keep it together

 

[smokepolejohnson]

Same barber?

View attachment 70915

Lmfao. Classic.

 

[Horsecorn]

At least he has hair. hay wifey how did you know I was old

 

[Bigwiffy]

At least he has hair. hay wifey how did you know I was old

Instead of posting on here you may want to just ask your wife. I bet in one guess I could tell you how she knows you're old.....

 

[Horsecorn]

You are one strange dud.

 

[Bigwiffy]

You are one strange dud.

Me? Go re-read your post, then tell me who the dud is.

 

[Horsecorn]

I did re read it. And ya you got me there.

 

[Bigwiffy]

I did re read it. And ya you got me there.

I still like you and congrats on that ram you killed. Smoker!

 

[Horsecorn]

I didn’t kill one my dad did. I’ll tell him you said so.

 

[Bigwiffy]

I didn’t kill one my dad did. I’ll tell him you said so.

Oh in that case I like your Dad, but you're still kind of a horsefart.

 

[Horsecorn]

Good. As long as you like my dad.