Incompetant Hunters Ed teacher (I'd use worse words)

[JohnSWA]

I am really freakin pissed!!!

Scenario:

My son and I have been psyched all month waiting for the Combo Hunters Ed class that was scheduled for tonight! The class was supposed to be at Barro's Pizza in Chandler at 6;30 pm. We arrived at Barro's Pizza at 6:00 because we knew that there might be a crowd. At the Pizza joint, there was a sign at the door saying that the class was moved to an elementary school on Queen Creek rd. No problem, we're early right? We get there at about 6:10 and there is a line of 20 people there!

Now I'm thinking this sucks. There's no way we will get in. I'm standing next to another father and he said that this Bozo pre-registered 10 people already!

Now if you check the G&F website it states that there will be no pre-registration. Registration at the door only! Not to mention where the class was originally supposed to be!

Well now we all wait in line till 7:00pm because this @hole waited an extra 1/2 hour to let his pre-registered folks arrive. After 7:00 He decides to let another 10 people in. My son and I were the last people let in the class. Before I went in the class, I asked if there were any parents out there with kids holding tags for an up and coming hunt. I feel terribly sorry for the folks that left with kids with tears in their eyes, but those folks had already left.

Ok, now were in the class. I decided not to take the class since that was the only way for my son to get in since he was the last of the twenty. Guess what? This bozo counted wrong and now he asks for volunteers to leave! I was so disgusted, I told my son, "Let's get outa here". What a total unprofessional, Irresponsible piece of crap representing the G&F!!!

His whole reason for not taking more than 20 was because he only had enough materials for 20 people! Do you mean to tell me that he couldn't get more materials(study books) for the next night of class? What a !$@!!%#$%!#@$

I told him that AZG&F was going to hear about this and he acted like he could care less! OOOOOOOOh, I'm pissed!

 

[theridge]

John: Don't hold back, who was the instructor? Maybe your info will save some others from this stank dude. Thanks

 

[sprayer]

I'D COMPLAIN LOUDLY. PROBABLY WON'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE UNLESS OTHERS DO TOO THOUGH. HERE IN WASHINGTON WE DO PRE REGISTER AND ALL FALL CLASSES ARE FILLED BY MARCH OR APRIL. SOME OF THE INTRUCTORS WERE REALLY TERRIBLE TOO. BUT THEY ARE VOLUNTEERS SO I CAN APPRECITE THAT. I CAN'T IMAGINE WAITING IN LINE AND HOPING. HOW DO THEY EXPECT TO INTRODUCE NEW HUNTERS? BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME. IF YOU GET THE SAME INTRUCTER YOU MIGHT WANT TO KISS SOME ARS OUR YOUR KID MIGHT FAIL.

 

[JohnSWA]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-24-05 AT 10:27PM (MST)[p]Oh, there were a lot of folks saying that they were going to complain to the G&F. We'll just see how many are worth their salt. I'm good friends with the man in charge of AZG&F, so we'll see what happens. I'll keep everyone updated.....Believe me!!!

 

[Bulzeye]

JohnSWA,

I wasn't there last night so I can't speak about the events that occured. But I do want to speak about the person you are attacking. The instructor has been an avid hunter and angler all his life and has a tremendous love and respect for the outdoors. He is also very concerned that todays youth are being deprived of many of the outdoor experiences and lessons that he learned as a child. As a result of his love of the outdoors and desire for our youngsters to learn about the outdoors he spent many hours of his own time getting certified to teach the Arizona hunters saftey course. Last night was his first class and he spent more of his own time preparing for and actually teaching the class. He has a wife and three teenage kids that he could have been spending time with, but instead he chose to teach hunters ed to a class full of complete strangers so he could pass along his love of the outdoors. He does not get paid for teaching this class, he does it because he wants to and because he loves helping others. In fact about a month ago he took an evening away from his own family to teach my three boys to fish. We caught several small fish and my boys were all thrilled with the experience! I really appreciate his time and concern for my boys. He spent half a night with me several years ago in New Mexico helping to pack out a buck I shot right before dark. We both had work the next day and neither of us got home until 2am. He never complained once and just thanked me for the fun experience. We still talk about it today. He helped another buddy of mine haul out a bull elk during the November archery elk hunt several years ago. It took them until well after midnight and he did not even know the people! He just wanted to help. He has the upmost respect for wildlife and is one of the most ethical outdoorsmen that I know. He is the type of guy that any of us would love to share a campfire with, and the type of hunter that we need more of.

Again I was not there last night and don't know what happened. I'm sure if the instructor knew of your frustrations he would feel horrible. I for one think you need to calm down and remember the big picture. I spoke with him yesterday morning and he was very excited about the class. It's too bad it didn't meet your expectations. Perhaps you could speak with him face to face like a man and express your concerns and offer some suggestions? He is one of the most open minded persons I know and very open to criticism. I'm sure he'd listen. Blasting him on the internet is pretty childish and down right cowardly, especially to someone that was putting forth his own time to serve your interests. It also does nothing but stir up the spirit of contention amongst fellow hunters. We have enough problems to worry about with more important issues than a rookie hunters ed teacher.

Act, don't react!

TAM

 

[bldgr10]

One thing for all to remember is that just because a person has vast experience in anything does not qualify them to be an instructor. Public speaking is often listed as the most feared situation a person can be faced with, right beside being audited by the IRS.

That being said, this person should be commended that he took the time to instruct this class. Obviously he cares enough to volunteer his time so that others may benefit (and no, I don't know him from Adam).

One of the reasons agencies and organizations such as AZGF have such a difficult time putting on enough of these classes is because of the lack of instructors and volunteers. Hunter?s Ed is a tremendous program and I wish everyone could attend. It would help to reduce the numbers of tragic accidents that occur each year as well as help to alleviate a lot of the slob hunters traipsing around in the woods. This in turn would greatly reduce the ammunition anti hunters have to use against us.

You do have a gripe about what happened to you and your son. These classes are few and far between and are difficult at best to get in to. But, instead of complaining about this guy, contact Game and Fish and find out how you can become an instructor. That way, you will always have a class to attend.

 

[JohnSWA]

Hey Bulzeye,

I am acting and reacting! Let's not get into this proactive outside the box executive inspirational mumbo jumbo talk! The bottom line is I could care less who this guy is or was. He was downright wrong on how he handled the situation. Absolutely irresponsible and incompetant as an educator.

I have spoken to the higher authorities at the AZG&F and have been assured that this will be investigated! And to answer on acting instead of reacting, I've volunteered to become a hunters ed instructor. I'm waiting on the details for what training(if any) I need. I will not turn away and children that have a hunt in the immediate future, I don't care who's first in line! And if I don't have enough materials for the remainder of the folks waiting in line, I will do my best to allow in as many as possible while getting what ever materials needed for everyone for the next night of class!

It doesn't matter who this guy is, if he was my friend, I'd have done the same thing.

Enough said!

 

[Bulzeye]

JohnSWA,

The whole purpose of the hunter education class is to teach people how to safely and ethicly enjoy and respect the outdoors. How can you call yourself a hunter or outdoorsman when you choose to curse and insult your fellow hunters that spend time and energy serving you and your children? Why would you wish to impose such a verbal attack on an individual that is going out of his way to support hunting and serve other hunters? Why do you hide behind the internet and scream bloody murder when the instructor would be happy to listen to and address your concerns? Be a man and go talk to him! He is very interested in making his class better and would welcome the feedback! What are you trying to accomplish by bashing him and complaining to the AZ G&F Deptartment? Do you want him fired? Think of all the future students you could help if you would just speak to him and express your frusterations like an adult? Maybe even offer to assist him with instructing the class?

And by the way, I'm sure if I were to attend your first hunters ed class you won't make any rookie mistakes? Actually, I don't think anyone will attend your class after reading your last couple of posts, cuz your attitud SUCKS!!! Cheer up man this hunting stuff is supposed to be fun!

 

[jameister]

I haev taught hunters education, did it for three years, one week a year. great experience. kind of like packing out a bull elk. hard work. rewarding work. thankless work.

But when you see those kids later on, and they say thanks, and yes they got their deer, it was worth it.

Now as to whiner: I wait in line to get into church sometimes. I wait in line at the Post Office. I wait in line to buy my groceries. I dont like it I do it. And they all get paid. I bet you never teach more than one class, with your attitude unchecked, you must be one perfect type of guy.

I sympathize with you and your son. I am glad you got in the class. I hope your son passes and succeeds. I do, however, doubt that you have the patience or the persistence to help some slow learner types with the class curriculum unless you lighten up a bit, and remember the Golden rule.

Finding constructive solutions to frustrating problems is more rewarding than pulling the Queen of Hearts Trick: Off with their Heads!!!

Jameister

 

[JohnSWA]

Bulzeye,

Everything I posted was the truth. I did not lie or embellish any of my statements. I would be happy to speak with him and I believe I will be speaking with him over this issue! The man handled the situation completely wrong and if he's your friend, then I'm sure that he admitted that to you!

Will I make mistakes at my first class I teach? Ofcourse! I'm not perfect and I don't claim to be! I simply stated my case to the AZG&F as I told him I would. He just smiled and said "Do what you have to do"!

Bulzeye, you are being the antagonist here! I am not! I'm not hiding from anyone. I'm not playing Mr. tough guy either, but I will always stand up for what I thing is right, whether you approve or not!

I would be more than happy to talk to him personally and like I said, I'm sure I will in the investigation. Rest assured, I'm not the only one that filed a complaint with the G&F, but go ahead and hammer on me because this guy is your friend. If this guy was my friend I would have done the same thing. You weren't there in line along with kids that can't hunt now because they have a tag, but no hunters ed certification!

Fire away Bulseye!

 

[JohnSWA]

Jamesmeister,

Reread my original post, you will see that I got in the class, and then had to leave since he counted wrong. Let's see who's casting stones here. You don't know me, but yet you cast me as the Mr. Perfect kind of guy. I wasn't the only person who felt this way, but I guess those parents are perfect just like me! Please read the post carefully before you label me as some sort of jerk. If you know anyone who actually knows me I'm sure that you will be surprized at what you hear.

I'm not throwing stones or maliciously labeling any posters here. Yes, I love hunting and enjoy every opportunity. I especially love sharing my experiences with others! If this paints me as a jerk, so be it. If you were in line with me last night, I'm sure that you would have felt the same way. If you felt differently, you would have been the minority!

 

[jameister]

I reread your post, I quote from it "Now I'm thinking this sucks. There's no way we will get in. I'm standing next to another father and he said that this Bozo pre-registered 10 people already!"

I guess I reread your post again, and your ATTITUDE was established in the first few paragraphs..

You refer (or quote someone who refers) to your volunteer instructor as a "bozo" before you even get in the door, before you meet him, and before you really know whether he has preregistered anyone or not. you also say you are more than 20 people back in line. You knew it was first come first served,as per AGFD posted rules. You were later than 20 other people, they all had access to teh same information as you did.

And you call him a BOZO, and you expect me to not challenge your attitude?
You may not be a jerk, but you come off like a jerk.
In your words, not mine.

I just defend the challenges and rewards of thankless jobs done by volunteers. If your son gets his safety card and extra preference point, then he has benefitted from a volunteer.

Best regards, and I dont mean to challenge, just to hold up a mirror for you. There is no excuse for rudeness in dealing with volunteers in anything. they can walk away, and then who wins?

Bozo indeed.

Ready, fire, aim.

 

[Bulzeye]

JohnSWA,

I'm not saying the instructor is right or handled the situation perfectly. I'm also not saying you are a bad guy or a jerk or anything like that. I also said that I was not there and did not know what took place, so I'm not trying to say who was right or who was wrong. The only thing I wanted to point out was that the instructor is a great person! He loves hunting and the outdoors, and loves to help others. He did not intentionly disrespect you. He was just trying to do a good thing by teaching a hunters education class. He's a hunter, therefore he's one of us, we're on the same team! Work with him! If you knew him as a person you would not have said the inconsiderate comments you made. I'm not trying to antagonize you and lable you a jerk, I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just want you to pause for a moment and think about the situation and what would be the "right" way to handle it? I just think there are better ways to resolve the situation than by bashing a good person on an internet site and stir up hunter against hunter.

I think it's great that you are looking into becoming an instructor! In fact, I think a big part of your frustration is that there are not enough insturctors and kids are being turned down from classes because they are to full. As mentioned above being an instructor has it's rewards that are far better than any money. Good luck!

 

[JohnSWA]

Ok, now that I've had a couple days to cool off, I see where I may have been quick to use childish names. For that I am truly sorry. If this man is your friend, you can pm me his phone number and I will be glad to tell him that over the phone or even in person.

I have spoken with the man in charge of the game and fish education department and he has been in contact with your friend the instructor. All sides agree that mistakes were made and together we are working on a way to prevent this from ever happening in the future!

Again, I didn't mean to portray your friend as a complete fool. Apparently I should serve myself a healthy portion of crow after my childish name calling.

Bottom line is he acknowledges the mistakes and he and the AZG&F will not let this happen again.

 

[woodruffhunter]

JohnSWA,

You have my respect. Most people wouldn't admit their mistakes.
I hope things work out well for you and your son.

Woodruffhunter

 

[RLH]

just when it was gettin' good, everbody made up. dang. i was thinkin' o' goin' to the next meeting just to watch.

 

[rost495]

Glad you got it all worked out. As a volunteer hunter ed instructor there is another side to every issue.

One of those being that you can't believe how many folks wait all year long passing up chances at courses, until at the last moment they have a tag or hunt and then try to squeeze into a course. And someone always has the gall to gripe about I have a 1 hour drive and get back late and your hours are wrong etc.... What about the course in your town that you missed a month ago???

Our state sets suggested maximums to classes which is a good deal. They also have mimimums for a reason. Quality of teaching is required. Any of a number of reasons could have been why some of the things that happened did happen.

I really hope it all works out and it looks like cool heads prevailed finally.

Its a tough and thankless job. I just am hoping you realized the demand for instructors and you will consider it also. I always ask my class to remember what I've done for them as they get older and to consider becoming an instructor. Its very rewarding in its own ways. But it will cost you in time. It will cost you in your own money to buy teaching tools. But its worth it in the end!

Best, Jeff

 

[jameister]

it takes a wise man to see his foibles.
it takes a bigger man to deal with them.
It takes the influence of the Great One to forgive others.

I am happy for you and your son and your instructor.

 

[Bulzeye]

JohnSWA,

Thanks for understanding, and thanks for working things out with G&F and with the instructor. I really wish you knew him like I do, he's got his heart in the right place and feels horrible that things went the way they did. I'm glad you were willing to put your emotion aside and handle it in a mannor that will help our common interests. Good luck to you and your boy on the upcoming javi hunt!

 

[bldgr10]

JohnSWA

Your a good and honest man. You're welcome at my camp anytime.