It looks like we're doomed
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440sixpack
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Sounds like some conservatives need to go to college.
AspenAdventures
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Right? I'm sure it was a bunch of conservative raised kids begging for the gubment to take care of them.........perhaps not
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
4
440sixpack
Guest
Well somebody did, do you understand what a majority in a survey means?
It's just like the wingnuts crying about all the liberal teachers. if you don't like it why don't you recruit some conservative teachers? because they'd have to go to college?
It's just like the wingnuts crying about all the liberal teachers. if you don't like it why don't you recruit some conservative teachers? because they'd have to go to college?
How come my previous post has disappeared?
Any way, 80% want all the hand outs. What was the old saying? Something like, when over half the people start voting themselves largess from the public trough this country will end. Something like that, I'm sure you get the drift.
Any way, 80% want all the hand outs. What was the old saying? Something like, when over half the people start voting themselves largess from the public trough this country will end. Something like that, I'm sure you get the drift.
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440sixpack
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I wouldn't say it will end but it will definetly be even more socialist.
Nothing stays the same, we'll become more liberal or more conservative one or the other. you can't be as polarized as we've become and expect no shift in direction.
Nothing stays the same, we'll become more liberal or more conservative one or the other. you can't be as polarized as we've become and expect no shift in direction.
manny53
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-12 AT 06:47PM (MST)[p]>How come my previous post has
>disappeared?
>
>Any way, 80% want all the
>hand outs. What was the
>old saying? Something like, when
>over half the people start
>voting themselves largess from the
>public trough this country will
>end. Something like that, I'm
>sure you get the drift.
>
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." - Elmer T. Peterson
=======
If you read the original version of this article, you'll note that this letter to the editor not only is 8 years earlier than the previously-known first usage of WDF, but it includes an attribution to Tytler that predates the next-known attribution by over a decade. This next known usage was on May 3, 1959, WDF appeared on page 35 of The New York Times Book Review, in the "Queries and Answers" column. The relevant portion of the column, which was first among that day's queries, read as follows...
F.R.K. wants to know where the following paragraph was taken from: "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only last until the citizens discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that the Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, to be followed by a dictatorship, and then a monarchy."
>disappeared?
>
>Any way, 80% want all the
>hand outs. What was the
>old saying? Something like, when
>over half the people start
>voting themselves largess from the
>public trough this country will
>end. Something like that, I'm
>sure you get the drift.
>
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." - Elmer T. Peterson
=======
If you read the original version of this article, you'll note that this letter to the editor not only is 8 years earlier than the previously-known first usage of WDF, but it includes an attribution to Tytler that predates the next-known attribution by over a decade. This next known usage was on May 3, 1959, WDF appeared on page 35 of The New York Times Book Review, in the "Queries and Answers" column. The relevant portion of the column, which was first among that day's queries, read as follows...
F.R.K. wants to know where the following paragraph was taken from: "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only last until the citizens discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that the Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, to be followed by a dictatorship, and then a monarchy."
T
triggerman308
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-08-12 AT 10:32PM (MST)[p]Maybe there are more liberal teachers because it is a liberal tendency to shove their liberal idealogies upon the masses...what a better way to do this than become a teacher!
Kind of like the gay & lesbian parades, I don't care who you screw but do you really need to have a public parade with people dry humping each other in the streets. Oh, I guess it must be because they are an oppressed bunch!
I know...sorry, you may start to crucify me now.
Kind of like the gay & lesbian parades, I don't care who you screw but do you really need to have a public parade with people dry humping each other in the streets. Oh, I guess it must be because they are an oppressed bunch!
I know...sorry, you may start to crucify me now.
NeMont
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I think there is another saying that applies: if you are 20 and not a liberal you don't have a heart and if you are 40 and not a conservative you don't have a brain.
How many people do you suppose change their minds once they enter the work force and begin to see the world as it is not as they wish it were?
There are tons of studies out there that contradict this single piece of info. I am not saying that college students, even a majority believe that the government should help them but I also know enough college kids that are busting their hump to get a degree as well as holding down a job.
The glass if half full not half empty.
Nemont
How many people do you suppose change their minds once they enter the work force and begin to see the world as it is not as they wish it were?
There are tons of studies out there that contradict this single piece of info. I am not saying that college students, even a majority believe that the government should help them but I also know enough college kids that are busting their hump to get a degree as well as holding down a job.
The glass if half full not half empty.
Nemont
NeMont
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-12 AT 09:16AM (MST)[p]Triggerman,
Does gays and lesbians parading in the street make you love your wife less?
I think gays and lesbians have the same Constitutional rights to assemble, to speak and do what they want regardless whether you are offended or not. Kind of like burning the flag, I would never desecrate our flag but I would fight anybody who tried to outlaw it due to freedom of speech in this country.
Nemont
Does gays and lesbians parading in the street make you love your wife less?
I think gays and lesbians have the same Constitutional rights to assemble, to speak and do what they want regardless whether you are offended or not. Kind of like burning the flag, I would never desecrate our flag but I would fight anybody who tried to outlaw it due to freedom of speech in this country.
Nemont
4
440sixpack
Guest
Ha ha that's funny! it's only the liberals who push their idealogies on everyone. I guess you haven't listened to Perry and Bachmann?
Maybe some republicans need to go learn that read'in 'n rite'in stuff and show them there other conservatives so the hippie teachers can't corrupt them.
Maybe some republicans need to go learn that read'in 'n rite'in stuff and show them there other conservatives so the hippie teachers can't corrupt them.
Cornhusker
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Posts #9-10 are well thought out posts that people should consider before posting something stupid. ( Saying that)
They use a little flashy thingy like on Men In Black to make teachers liberal, it doesn't hurt much but does give you a headache. Its top secret so only a few of you have probably heard about it.
They use a little flashy thingy like on Men In Black to make teachers liberal, it doesn't hurt much but does give you a headache. Its top secret so only a few of you have probably heard about it.
W
wvbowhunterinalaska
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-12 AT 11:33AM (MST)[p]As a student at a community college I have witnessed a few alarming trends in classes that I have taken here at the main branch this semester (I had to attend the semester before this one at a satellite campus due to the fact that was the only class I could get at the time for my major).
I would venture to say that most of those in that survey was kids straight out of high school; who either still live with Mom and Dad and/or still heavily dependent on aide from their parents along with their student financial aide. I saw quite a bit of that this semester in my algebra class; kids (mostly right out of high school) showing up to class when they felt like it, maybe doing the homework when they felt like it, ditching out of class about halfway through the lecture, etc. The class syllabus clearly stated that REGULAR CLASS ATTENDANCE WAS REQUIRED FOR FINANCIAL AIDE. By mid terms our class was cut in half due to dropped students and those that didn't drop just sorta showed up whenever. One girl who either didn't attend or she would ditch out mid lecture, sent an email out 2 days before the final asking what day, time, and what room the final was going to be in.
About a month before the semester was over during lecture the professor turned around to ask us a question, stopped his sentence, and asked us how
class attendance could be boosted. I raised my hand and flat out told him to make attendance a part of the grade. OMG he acted gutkicked by that statement and then began to hem and haw about this and that, and what about
single moms with sick kids, etc. etc. etc. I told him that those are called excused absences when you are sick or have to take care of a sick kid, but not skipping class at least once a week. I told him that if he made attendance at least 20%
of the grade then people would be more inclined to attend class; even if they are aceing the tests but not attending regularly they are getting an 80% for a class grade.
Honestly there should be some more stringent tests to see if a person is ready
mentally for college straigt out of high school instead of letting everyone in and having a good majority possibly flunk out and not only having student loan debt and taking money away from someone who could go to school and make good use out of it.
I wish I would have joined the military straight out of high school instead of going to college and wasting 3 years of time, money, and taking up class room space for someone who could have done better than myself at that time in school. If you were to bump my school transcripts between then and now, you wouldn't believe it is the same person. First three years I carried between a 2.5-
3.5 depending on what classes I was taking these past two semesters was a 4.0 and a 3.4 respectively which makes my overall GPA a 3.7, which I am proud of.
I would love to hear what Husker has to say on this, so if there is anytime I am calling someone out for their opinion (since he teaches a few college courses) I wanna hear what Husker has to say on this issue.
WVBOWAK
I would venture to say that most of those in that survey was kids straight out of high school; who either still live with Mom and Dad and/or still heavily dependent on aide from their parents along with their student financial aide. I saw quite a bit of that this semester in my algebra class; kids (mostly right out of high school) showing up to class when they felt like it, maybe doing the homework when they felt like it, ditching out of class about halfway through the lecture, etc. The class syllabus clearly stated that REGULAR CLASS ATTENDANCE WAS REQUIRED FOR FINANCIAL AIDE. By mid terms our class was cut in half due to dropped students and those that didn't drop just sorta showed up whenever. One girl who either didn't attend or she would ditch out mid lecture, sent an email out 2 days before the final asking what day, time, and what room the final was going to be in.
About a month before the semester was over during lecture the professor turned around to ask us a question, stopped his sentence, and asked us how
class attendance could be boosted. I raised my hand and flat out told him to make attendance a part of the grade. OMG he acted gutkicked by that statement and then began to hem and haw about this and that, and what about
single moms with sick kids, etc. etc. etc. I told him that those are called excused absences when you are sick or have to take care of a sick kid, but not skipping class at least once a week. I told him that if he made attendance at least 20%
of the grade then people would be more inclined to attend class; even if they are aceing the tests but not attending regularly they are getting an 80% for a class grade.
Honestly there should be some more stringent tests to see if a person is ready
mentally for college straigt out of high school instead of letting everyone in and having a good majority possibly flunk out and not only having student loan debt and taking money away from someone who could go to school and make good use out of it.
I wish I would have joined the military straight out of high school instead of going to college and wasting 3 years of time, money, and taking up class room space for someone who could have done better than myself at that time in school. If you were to bump my school transcripts between then and now, you wouldn't believe it is the same person. First three years I carried between a 2.5-
3.5 depending on what classes I was taking these past two semesters was a 4.0 and a 3.4 respectively which makes my overall GPA a 3.7, which I am proud of.
I would love to hear what Husker has to say on this, so if there is anytime I am calling someone out for their opinion (since he teaches a few college courses) I wanna hear what Husker has to say on this issue.
WVBOWAK
T
triggerman308
Guest
A few wackjob ultra conservative groups does not a majority make! They're irrelavent in the big picture.
Some groups need to practice a little modesty while demonstrating for their rights, someone's small children might be watching.
Some groups need to practice a little modesty while demonstrating for their rights, someone's small children might be watching.
W
wvbowhunterinalaska
Guest
Well I tried Nemont, kinda hard to edit a post using a smartphone. Thanks for pointing out my run on post.
WVBOWAK
WVBOWAK
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Wvbowhunterinalaska In spite of the grammar which doesn't bother me, good point. My son was a evenings adjunct professor in physics until last month when he moved back to Denver from the bay area. His class pass rate was somewhere around 30%. Some was because of lack of background classes but much was because of attendance. If you get behind you have to be real motivated or real smart to catch up. Poor attendance is directly correlated to your grades high school, community college, university or grad school, or it should be.
"Achievement is not a given, it requires work."
That quote is at the front of my room and I stand by that totally.
"Achievement is not a given, it requires work."
That quote is at the front of my room and I stand by that totally.
Cornhusker
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My failure rate at the local community college isn't nearly as high as my sons. A couple of reasons for that is the area I teach isn't as tough as physics. Another reason is 3 absences and you lose 10% of your grade 4th absence it goes to 15% and so on.
Now saying that I get a lot of grief from administration over that because they want the students to all pass so they continue to be enrolled. They haven't asked me to teach any classes this year, I'm guessing that might be some of the reason why. I'm not worried about it I wasn't making a lot of money but my student evaluations were at 8.75 out of 10. Only those that complete the class get to evaluate. I'm sure those that quit coming would have lowered it substantially.
Most of the truant students we have at the high school level simply fail. Nebraska has a law we have to turn each truant case over to the county prosecutor if they miss more than 10 days a semester. The prosecutor usually chooses not to do anything, but sometimes in the Omaha or Lincoln they file child neglect charges on the parent.
Now saying that I get a lot of grief from administration over that because they want the students to all pass so they continue to be enrolled. They haven't asked me to teach any classes this year, I'm guessing that might be some of the reason why. I'm not worried about it I wasn't making a lot of money but my student evaluations were at 8.75 out of 10. Only those that complete the class get to evaluate. I'm sure those that quit coming would have lowered it substantially.
Most of the truant students we have at the high school level simply fail. Nebraska has a law we have to turn each truant case over to the county prosecutor if they miss more than 10 days a semester. The prosecutor usually chooses not to do anything, but sometimes in the Omaha or Lincoln they file child neglect charges on the parent.
AspenAdventures
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I believe there are a lot of liberal professors because the liberals like to teach and spread their "ideologies".
Conservatives like to go to work.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
Conservatives like to go to work.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
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440sixpack
Guest
So teaching isn't work?
Maybe liberals just study more because NASCAR isn't their life.
I'm no teacher and I was a piss poor student. I'm not about to knock those who are good at either.
Maybe liberals just study more because NASCAR isn't their life.
I'm no teacher and I was a piss poor student. I'm not about to knock those who are good at either.
W
wvbowhunterinalaska
Guest
Another reason is
>3 absences and you lose
>10% of your grade 4th
>absence it goes to 15%
>and so on.
>Now saying that I get a
>lot of grief from administration
>over that because they want
>the students to all pass
>so they continue to be
>enrolled. They haven't asked
>me to teach any classes
>this year, I'm guessing that
>might be some of the
>reason why. I'm not
>worried about it I wasn't
>making a lot of money
>but my student evaluations were
>at 8.75 out of 10.
Husker,
Thanks for overlooking my grammatical errors, I never did care for doing sentence structure in school; guess it shows. After reading your statements about teaching college level courses I agree with your attendance policy, I had an Anatomy and Physiology professor who had the same policy. Believe it or not there was students who didn't follow it and I am sure their grades suffered for it and they complained about it; when it is on the syllabus in BLACK AND WHITE, how can you argue with the policy.
Another sad thing was the students who were doing poorly in the class were slamming her for being a sub-standard professor. One woman argued with our instructor about her crap grades because the teacher was doing a terrible and this woman was basing her opinions because she was an educator at one time herself. My thought was that if I and the majority of the class was passing
and/or excelling on exams; she was doing something right. I admit at first I was a little frightened of this course, but I soon realized it was just me psyching myself out more than anything.
I liked the motto you posted, I wish more people going to institutions of higher learning would see that going into the front door; that way they know what is expected of them and that nothing is owed to them.
I will get off my soapbox, thanks for replying on this issue Husker. While we may disagree on many issues, I would probably enjoy having you as a professor.
WVBOWAK
>3 absences and you lose
>10% of your grade 4th
>absence it goes to 15%
>and so on.
>Now saying that I get a
>lot of grief from administration
>over that because they want
>the students to all pass
>so they continue to be
>enrolled. They haven't asked
>me to teach any classes
>this year, I'm guessing that
>might be some of the
>reason why. I'm not
>worried about it I wasn't
>making a lot of money
>but my student evaluations were
>at 8.75 out of 10.
Husker,
Thanks for overlooking my grammatical errors, I never did care for doing sentence structure in school; guess it shows. After reading your statements about teaching college level courses I agree with your attendance policy, I had an Anatomy and Physiology professor who had the same policy. Believe it or not there was students who didn't follow it and I am sure their grades suffered for it and they complained about it; when it is on the syllabus in BLACK AND WHITE, how can you argue with the policy.
Another sad thing was the students who were doing poorly in the class were slamming her for being a sub-standard professor. One woman argued with our instructor about her crap grades because the teacher was doing a terrible and this woman was basing her opinions because she was an educator at one time herself. My thought was that if I and the majority of the class was passing
and/or excelling on exams; she was doing something right. I admit at first I was a little frightened of this course, but I soon realized it was just me psyching myself out more than anything.
I liked the motto you posted, I wish more people going to institutions of higher learning would see that going into the front door; that way they know what is expected of them and that nothing is owed to them.
I will get off my soapbox, thanks for replying on this issue Husker. While we may disagree on many issues, I would probably enjoy having you as a professor.
WVBOWAK
T
triggerman308
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Television NeMont!
Cornhusker
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We disagree on fewer issues than you would think. I should mention in community colleges in California and Nebraska a huge difference occurs. In Nebraska its often a lack of money to go to a university or 4 year school that drives kids and adults to community colleges. Sometimes its the same in California but often, I'm not sure what the program is but they get money for going back to school so they aren't quite as motivated to show up.
RELH
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Now in CA. the illegal aliens will be able to get that grant money. My son and daughter in law missed out for being the wrong race and not poor enough for grants. They completed their degrees while married and raising two kids and ended up using student loans to survive.
They are now paying back one hundred thousand dollars in student loans for their education. My son should have changed his name to Jose Mendez and told them he was a light skin mexican.
RELH
They are now paying back one hundred thousand dollars in student loans for their education. My son should have changed his name to Jose Mendez and told them he was a light skin mexican.
RELH
AspenAdventures
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Not the type of work I am thinking of....like producing something.....itellectuals without muscles are useless to me. If you have no real world expierience then you shouldnt be teachnig.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
4
440sixpack
Guest
I could have guessed intellect had no value to you.
NeMont
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-10-12 AT 11:57AM (MST)[p]What on earth constitute "real world" experience?
I am not certain why you have a hard on for teachers but I know alot of them and they represent the average American pretty well IMO. They got themselves through college, do a pretty much thankless job, most are professional and continue their education throughout their career.
If the Republicans supported teachers and helped by not passing unfunded mandates at the Federal level that hobbles local districts then more teachers would vote Republican. My wife is more conservative then me and she votes her conscience and though belongs to the union still votes for Republicans.
If you are suggesting that one must have a career then go teach, I am curious if that is your plan? You expect teachers to not start teaching out of college but to put off using their degree in order to pursue another career and then move into the classroom? I guess they just need to work to age 75 to fit in two careers in their lifetime. When do you plan on getting into the classroom and sharing all you "real world" experience?
Nemont
I am not certain why you have a hard on for teachers but I know alot of them and they represent the average American pretty well IMO. They got themselves through college, do a pretty much thankless job, most are professional and continue their education throughout their career.
If the Republicans supported teachers and helped by not passing unfunded mandates at the Federal level that hobbles local districts then more teachers would vote Republican. My wife is more conservative then me and she votes her conscience and though belongs to the union still votes for Republicans.
If you are suggesting that one must have a career then go teach, I am curious if that is your plan? You expect teachers to not start teaching out of college but to put off using their degree in order to pursue another career and then move into the classroom? I guess they just need to work to age 75 to fit in two careers in their lifetime. When do you plan on getting into the classroom and sharing all you "real world" experience?
Nemont
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AA I should be good to go with you, I worked commercial construction, Chicago Northwestern Railroad, Great Plains Beef Packing plant at least 6 months in each of those jobs. I worked 2 full years in construction 4 more years part time while going to school. So I should be good to go on real world experience or do I have to work for 2 fortune 500 companies like you did to qualify?
Most of the male teachers in my district if not going to school work some kind of ag. job in the summer to compensate for a $23,000 base pay. I make more than that because of experience so I do construction and house painting.
Were you born as intelligent as you are or did someone teach you to read? I'm sure you're completely self taught on economics, mathematics, and science. Every occupation has worthless people, but to lump all in the field together as you do is illogical. it is especially illogical for someone who is as smart and has done all the wonderful things you have.
Most of the male teachers in my district if not going to school work some kind of ag. job in the summer to compensate for a $23,000 base pay. I make more than that because of experience so I do construction and house painting.
Were you born as intelligent as you are or did someone teach you to read? I'm sure you're completely self taught on economics, mathematics, and science. Every occupation has worthless people, but to lump all in the field together as you do is illogical. it is especially illogical for someone who is as smart and has done all the wonderful things you have.
W
wvbowhunterinalaska
Guest
>Not the type of work I
>am thinking of....like producing something.....
Teaching is one hard profession and anyone who can go through the pain and frustration of being a teacher has my respect and thanks. It is an unglorified and under appreciated job. Oh and as far as producing something; teachers PRODUCE our future policemen, military members, firemen, farmers, bankers, lawyers, construction workers, carpenters, and yes our future politicians among a host of different and various professions. What they produce will either pay off in spades or sink like the Titanic depending on how good a job they done, but they also need good capital to be invested into the program. 440 will tell you and most will agree if you put crops in crap soil, you won't have a good harvest. Same thing with kids in school, not everyone was meant to be a rocket scientist and I don't care how hard a teacher (no matter how great a teacher they are) will work with that person they will probably never will be a rocket scientist.
WVBOWAK
>am thinking of....like producing something.....
Teaching is one hard profession and anyone who can go through the pain and frustration of being a teacher has my respect and thanks. It is an unglorified and under appreciated job. Oh and as far as producing something; teachers PRODUCE our future policemen, military members, firemen, farmers, bankers, lawyers, construction workers, carpenters, and yes our future politicians among a host of different and various professions. What they produce will either pay off in spades or sink like the Titanic depending on how good a job they done, but they also need good capital to be invested into the program. 440 will tell you and most will agree if you put crops in crap soil, you won't have a good harvest. Same thing with kids in school, not everyone was meant to be a rocket scientist and I don't care how hard a teacher (no matter how great a teacher they are) will work with that person they will probably never will be a rocket scientist.
WVBOWAK
AspenAdventures
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Nemont, thanks for your thoughtful words.
My favorite professors were guys like my business law professor who was the president of the Utah State Bar Association with 20 years experience in business law.
A lot of the "smart" people can tell you how to build a boat but have never done it....
Can you imagine a Doctor without a residency requirement?
Can you imagine a president without any real world leadership experience? Oh yeah, that one should be easy to imagine
Nemont...I'm not talking about nursery school....we were discussing Professors of Universities.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
My favorite professors were guys like my business law professor who was the president of the Utah State Bar Association with 20 years experience in business law.
A lot of the "smart" people can tell you how to build a boat but have never done it....
Can you imagine a Doctor without a residency requirement?
Can you imagine a president without any real world leadership experience? Oh yeah, that one should be easy to imagine
Nemont...I'm not talking about nursery school....we were discussing Professors of Universities.
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
NeMont
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If you ever juggled college, job, family commitments and all your bills it doesn't get much more "real world" than that. Doesn't really matter what level one is teaching.
I understand what you are saying but highly doubt it applies to every situation.
Still don't understand you hardon for teachers.
Nemont
I understand what you are saying but highly doubt it applies to every situation.
Still don't understand you hardon for teachers.
Nemont
