JESUS FREAKS!

440 faith is easy enough to prove....you wake up every morning with faith that the sun will rise or has risen.....you can't be sure but you believe it....proving God is a bit more difficult, but even with this it's more a matter of perspective than anything else. The same science you claim disproves God is my evidence of His existence.......

littlebeaver.jpg
 
>So an entity so powerful creating
>a universe isn't a problem
>can't do some trick
>to convince non christians he
>exists? I'm reasonable, part the
>water for me and I'd
>buy a case of bibles.
>
>
>
>
3914church-ad.jpg
 
Manny how are the mormans any worse than you are?

Berry how can blind faith in something with absolutely no evidence to support it's claims be logical? there is no science to prove god doesn't exist but there's lots of it to prove the bible is bolony.

What is your version of the age of this planet? I assume you know the bible scholars claim it's 6000 years give or take a few. do you agree with this? if not what is the correct answer?

I'm interested in how faith can be maintained when such obvious and childish errors are present. if it were any other book this alone would be enough to get it tossed in the trash. yet even when it's a given the mistakes are not debatable faith prevails over common sense. I can't get my mind around this.
 
ta biblia

Ok 440 if you wanna debate the validity of the bible as a historical record your gonna win that one every time. A few hundred raw texts brought together a couple thousand years ago, by a bunch of ministers of random faith's and tenants, translated edited and changed a few thousand times mostly to fit the particular ages view at the time......ya i'm gonna jump right on the bandwagon and say that its unquestionable.....;-) haha not really, historically, the bible is absolute rubbish in that sense.

The bible does have intrinsic value on the premise of social value. The principles that it has single handedly infused into a large portion of society are unparalleled. In all reality, we have no idea if that book should even be viewed as a historical text. Can history be tracked with in it? Yes, should it be deemed as an accurate record of the times? Only if your I.Q. can be counted on one hand.

The lessons taught by the stories within it are quite intriguing. More often than not they teach metaphorically. For example, the basic Gospel of Jesus Christ rests on two principles and two ordinances, an ordinance is an outward example of an inward commitment. The two principles are Faith in Jesus Christ as a Savior, and Repentance. The two ordinances; Baptism by Immersion by one holding authority, the second the laying on of hands to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost or the Spirit of God also known as a baptism of Fire.

Now take the story of the flood out of the old testament and the prophecy of the end of the world out of the book of Revelations. These two stories teach the Gospel, the world (an individual) is baptized first by water, then by fire eventually progressing to a glorified form.

Now logically the story of the flood would seem to be absolute rubbish, metaphorically, the story takes on new value.

As for the age of the earth, I believe that the bible suggests that the earth has a temporal existence of 7,000 years. However, scripture also says that one day to us is 1,000 years to God, so is it really 7,000,000 years?? or were they speaking in God years??? hahaha who knows??? I'd much more readily trust in the declaration of Christ that no man, not even the angels in heaven know the day nor the hour. This simply suggests that time is not an issue.

My belief rests on Logic 440, i have learned and lived the principles and commandments taught by Christ. When I have done this, my life has improved drastically. So LOGICALLY it would seem intelligent for me to continue to do so, it brings happiness and progression to my life. The idea of whether something is real or not matters very little to me. I simply test the commandments and the promises attached to them and I have found inevitably that they are correct. How's that for practicing the scientific method??



littlebeaver.jpg
 
RE: ta biblia

Good answer, it's as close to an explaination for faith in fiction as I've heard yet.

Here we have some common ground, it seems you're happy with things as they are and prefer not to question it. I'm happy with the way things are as long as you don't try to push what I consider nonsense on me. now as long as the Cain, Bachmann and Perry types fade into the sunset so we can retian our separation of church and state I think we're good.

This is what you call freedom of religion and freedom from religion. the way the founding fathers intended it.
 
RE: ta biblia

THE bottom line is this. Some have faith in man and some have faith in God.




"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
RE: ta biblia

Well it means................you have faith in both lol :)



"I'll admit it, that's hella funny! Good to see you around 202, I wish you would return on a regular basis there's a lot of bruised low lying fruit on here lately. You should be on here on a regular basis especially since it was your political carpet bombing at the campfire that inspired this forum!"
Thank you Forthewall
 
1 Timothy 1

3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia?remain in Ephesus that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine, 4 nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 5 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise,[a]be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Fight the Good Fight

18 This charge I commit to you, son Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you may wage the good warfare, 19 having faith and a good conscience, which some having rejected, concerning the faith have suffered shipwreck,
 
I thought we agreed no more churchese Manny. english please.

If god made man shouldn't man be correct?
 
I'm going to assume that your intelligence doesn't allow you to speak with total ignorance on a subject.....and that the above comment is a joke not a total lack of knowlege concerning the bible.....haha ;-)

littlebeaver.jpg
 
How would a lack of bible knowledge be any indication of ones intelligence? I can quote Homer Simpson and Peter Griffin but I don't claim that makes me a wise man.


I have absolutely no idea who Matt was or what the jibberish he was quoted on means. moreover I have no desire to.
 
Ok, this is just my opinion, but in order for someone to form an intelligent opinion on something they must have knowledge of it. Not just with the bible but in all cases, it is utter stupidity to form an idea having absolutely no personal knowledge of it.

For example, I know next to nothing about cloning and genetic science. It would seem foolish for me to then begin denouncing it simply on the grounds of I feel like it. Doing stuff like that would quickly make me appear to be a complete douche cake and remove any previous misconceptions of me being an intelligent person.

So 440 if your bible knowledge is nothing more than heresay and slander feel free to actually acclimate yourself to it rather than just piggyback off of the work that others have done to form intelligent and individual opinions on it.

Up till know i've been fairly nice about my opinions, but and this has nothing to do with christianity at all, IMHO you become nothing more than a tool if your to lazy to actually learn for yourself.

P.S. Wiki doesn't count

littlebeaver.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-11-12 AT 03:44PM (MST)[p]What part of arks and world floods, talking snakes, immaculate conception, and the ten commandments would give a thinking person reason to do any research whatsoever? can you say BS?

Would you watch every episode of Star Trek before you'd form an opinion it's maybe fiction? I hope not, so don't expect any less from me in regaurds to your storybook.Common sense dictates I know all I need to about the bible to form a valid opinion.

As Einstein said " The word of god for me is nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive , legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. "

Einstein was intelligent enough, if you don't think I'm qualified to form an opinion I'll rest my case on his.
 
Just remember, Einstein did believe in an impersonal CREATOR...
since you like to quote Einstein so much are you on board with the CREATOR probability or is that too much for you to fathom?
 
Look it up. The info is there. Einstein eluded to the probability of a creator.
 
At some point in his life maybe, I thought there was a Santa when I was 4 but I changed my mind.

Einstein believed god and the universe were one of the same, basically we're all part of nature and all things are equal. most native american cultures beliefs would be in this class, makes more sense than anything else I've heard.
 
If Einstein had been religious he would have been in a small minority in the science community. superstition and looking for answers aren't compatible.
 
YES YES YES, much info out there that Einstein believed in a creator of some sort. So we're we're suppused to accept that info supporting your side is inherently true and our info must be false. Nice try Stick but it doen't work that way. We love the way you atheists try to back up your theory with science, but when something comes out that refutes it you throw out the "biased article" card or just claim its a lie. Nice escape hatch you have there.All our info is second hand history, and you don't really know any more tham we do because you didn't personally know Einstein did you.

We can only agree to disagree and thats how it will always be!
 
I wonder how long this can go on? I don't see anyone changes anyone else mind on the issue of God/Evolution/Bible/Science.

Keep on arguing, let's try to get it to 300 posts.

Nemont
 
>YES YES YES, much info out
>there that Einstein believed in
>a creator of some sort.

Sources, please?

>So we're we're suppused to
>accept that info supporting your
>side is inherently true and
>our info must be false.

Any place where I have seen that "Einstein believes in god" cites the same quotes, which are grossly taken out of context. If you can show me something where Einstein makes a real argument that he believes in a god, I will consider it.

>We
>love the way you atheists
>try to back up your
>theory with science, but when
>something comes out that refutes
>it you throw out the
>"biased article" card or just
>claim its a lie.

The second part of my previous post explains why, even if Einstein DID believe in a god, that it's irrelevant. Argument from Authority - read it.
(essentially it says that although Einstein is brilliant, it doesn't mean that he is right about everything (particularly those things, like god, which everybody else agrees is made up). or you can interpret it that Einstein is brilliant, but his 'god' is not his specialty, therefore his opinion on the existence of a god should be discounted.)
 
Google it yourself if you want sources!

If a source doesn't support your theory, all of a sudden its "grossly taken out of context." How convenient!!!

And to top it off all you atheists have hung your hat on the great Einstein, and now that your Einstein atheists theory is starting to crumble, you want to throw him under the bus...oooh Einstein is brilliant but since religion and God is not his specialty he might not be right!

This arguement is getting pathetic. Thanks for the insight Nemont...I'm done. You won't see us christians throwing Jesus under the bus.
 
" We love the way you aitheist sit back and try to back up your theory with science " as opposed to superstition?

Trigger you're just too damn funny.


Steven Hawkings is Einstein's equal by most accounts, guess what he says? people that smart are almost never superstitious.
 
And Hawking is entitled to his opinion, and it is an opinion. But according to Stick, Hawking is a physicist and since his specialty isn't religion then his views on God may not be correct. Right 440, is that how it works? More intellectual dishonesty please!!!

You guys crack me up.
 
>Google it yourself if you want
>sources!

Umm, I did, which is why I am asking for your sources.

Romney said last week "he likes to fire people". Except, if you listen to the words before and after that statement, that is not at all what he was saying.

If you go to a Christian site that takes a sentence Einstein once said, it seems to acknowledge that he believes in a god. However, if you read the words before and after those quotes and ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS he said in his life about not believing in a god, then it's pretty clear he didn't believe in a god. This has nothing to do with my sources being slanted. The source I provided just gave justification to the argument by providing more CONTEXT than your single god quote.

>
>If a source doesn't support your
>theory, all of a sudden
>its "grossly taken out of
>context." How convenient!!!

???
Your Einstein 'god quotes' are all taken out of context, AS EXHIBITED in the link I gave you.

>
>And to top it off all
>you atheists have hung your
>hat on the great Einstein,

Nobody hangs their hats on anybody. If anything, Dawkins and Hitchens would be well respected spokespeople for those who don't believe in a god, but Einstein is anything but a spokesman for atheism. He was a physicist.
Unlike Christianity, we don't have to hang our hats on any one person, book, fairy tale, etc. The lack of belief in a god pretty much defines that for us.
 
>I wonder how long this can
>go on? I don't
>see anyone changes anyone else
>mind on the issue of
>God/Evolution/Bible/Science.
>

I don't come here to change minds, I come here to hone my arguments and try to learn the opposing viewpoint. It's pretty hard to change the mind of a brick wall. :)


With that said, I am totally open to having my mind changed, but it will take evidence for that to happen. That's the nature of how I work and, like it or not, it's how ALL OF YOU work as well, with the one notable exception being religion.
 
I believe in God, you don't. To each his own!

I have nothing more to contribute to this discussion.
 
berryblaster said:
"I don't often wander down here cause I ain't thick skinned enough for some of you gents, but here is my take on life.

Whether you believe in God or not matters very little, it may be true it may not only time will tell. What matters is finding fulfillment in life. Wherever and whatever that is gleaned from, usually depends on an individual.

It is impossible to argue the existence of certain things, such as humanity, and out of necessity derived from the reality of the first, sociality. the truth of a principle for all universally, is found in the idea of progression. If a practice or principle leads that person to progress in life and therebye find a measure of fullfilment then it is truth. (I submit this idea on the pretense that all find happiness in growth and progression).

Some individuals find growth and progression leading a life founded on a religious belief, others do not. The idea of something being 'true' or not is uneffected by such boundaries. The golden rule is just as true in christianity as it is in hinduism. It betters society effectively when practiced by atheists and muslims alike.

The principles that Christ taught are 'true' principles, they are for the benefit of all universally if you are living a good life then you are living principles that He taught. He did not invent them and it matters not whether he was right or wrong. Time has proven that the lessons he spoke are true.

Personally, i believe that far more important that purporting to have 'faith' in a higher power, is living true principles. Death will come to all and i'm sure that when it does and 440 unexpectedly grows a belief in something, the life he led will be far more important to the LOVING GIVING God that so many are claiming than an inability to believe. For those that live true principles, they will be able to say at the Judgement Day that they infact did live the way that they were supposed to, ignorance aside. It'll be awfully hard to not believe when your eyes close for the final time here and suddenly open again somewhere else.......then its just a matter of answering for your deeds cause belief will come quickly!

So feel free to crucify me (figuratively of course) for my ideas.

P.S. The idea of evolution is far to complex for me to believe in, take human eyesight for example it is magnificent to understand and evolution suggests that it developed by chance. It is a product of circumstance. For me that is impossible to fathom.

P.P.S. Those of you Christians who wish to debate the validity of the doctrine involved in the above statement feel free to P.M. me I'd be happy to elaborate on it....."
_____________________________________

This is really the best post on religion I have seen. Living true principles is what matters most. I could go on about points I believe back up or help prove the existence of a God but.......I think the above post is enough.


"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
What annoys us most is that the highly intelligent and educated atheist crowd look down their nose at us christians like we're some lower level of humanity..."because certainly anyone with any real intelligence wouldn't believe in the existence of some God; (snicker, snicker, snicker while they sip their high tea with their little finger stuck out)." They are a self absorbed condescending bunch that believe believing in sometihing through faith is beneath their level of inteiiligence, i.e. they're too smart to believe in God. I find that absolutely hilarious and sad.
 
You're pulling a Manny there trigger, I thought you were done.

You're a hypocrite, catholics look down their nose at the lesser christians, all run of the mill christians look down their nose at mormans, all christians of any sort look down their nose at muslims, sunni look down their nose of shiite, shiite look down their nose at sunni, jews look down heir nose at everyone and atheist laugh at all you superstitious ding bats.

The thing you have to remember is no war was ever started in the name of atheism, nobody was tortured or burned at the stake for the sake of atheism. you idiots kill each other even yourselves for a fictional entity of various discriptions, forgive logical thinking atheists if we don't see that as real bright.

When you see a serious as hell aboriginal medicine man with a goofy hat shaking beads around a fire chanting in jibberish dancing like a crack head you see all religion through the eyes of the non believer. it's hard not to giggle.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-12 AT 09:09AM (MST)[p]blah blah blah...yada yada yada, and the music plays on!!!

And I colud tell you bad people will use whatever means necessary to get what they want, even religion, but what's the use!

Enjoy the comedy 440!
 
>What annoys us most is that
>the highly intelligent and educated
>atheist crowd look down their
>nose at us christians like
>we're some lower level of
>humanity...

I am noting here that I don't agree with this premise, but will continue to reply to what is below.

"because certainly anyone with any
>real intelligence wouldn't believe in
>the existence of some God;

Most people who study science do not believe in the existence of a god. And most people who don't finish high school or go to college (or are in prison) believe in god. There is definitely a correlation between higher education and belief (or lack of) in a god.


>They are a self absorbed
>condescending bunch that believe believing
>in sometihing through faith is
>beneath their level of inteiiligence,

This sounds like something you are trying to perceive rather than actually experiencing. Believing in something because of faith just doesn't make any logical sense, which is why intelligent people don't do it. It has nothing to do with being 'beneath' them, it has to do with rational thought processes.


This is a bit harsh, but I feel that it better represents what 'smart people' think:

Fuvgt.jpg
 
The thing you have to remember is no war was ever started in the name of atheism,...

really 440?

I get that but keep in mind the briannt Russians evforced your religion...atheism.

Your in good company then arent ya.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Faith is when you believe something on confidence. It becomes ignorance, when there is evidence that proves the belief wrong.


Last I checked...you cant prove God doesnt exist either smarty pants.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
A God....not THE God.

Try harder next time

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
So it doesn't matter which god? isn't that 99.9% the same as saying god doesn't exist? they can't all be real.

You're the one claiming an invisible prehistoric space spook with nothing better to do than listen to you whine made all this, you prove you're right.
 
I simply claim there is a creator.

"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." - Plato
 
Is there any point in arguing whether certain people believed or didn't believe?

If einstien did actually believe in God does that validate my belief? Does the factual determination of one persons opinion make up the concrete difference between decision and ignorance??

Who cares??? As so many have said before TO EACH HIS OWN!! It's really inconsequential to determine whether Lincoln, Hancock, or Franklin believed in Deity or not.

The fact remains that we all have Faith, what is different is what belief we place it in. Some have Faith in God others have Faith in Government. Faith in science Faith in food. you can go on forever and ever.....

littlebeaver.jpg
 
Maybe to you, but I'd rather believe what Einstein and Hawkings believe than what Manny believes.

For some reason it just seems like they might be smarter.
 
>Who cares??? As so many have
>said before TO EACH HIS
>OWN!!

I wish we could get you to preach to those who vote based on a candidate's abortion or gay rights stance.
 
Isn't that the beauty of living in a country like ours? Right or wrong you get to vote for what you believe in? If nothing else at least you get a say?? Which is far more than most of the world gets?



littlebeaver.jpg
 

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