Kiabab road closure - yr 2

muleymaniac · May 20, 2012

LAST EDITED ON May-20-12 AT 12:10PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-20-12 AT 11:44?AM (MST)

well we all know the great NF service trying to keep us from enjoying a camping heritage by some really stupid road closures and camp limitations.

I'm not against some kinda enviromental protection of the forest and to stop some of the distruction of the land.

Year 2 brings new up dates - yes the have huge wooden signs stating roadclosures and restrictions - use map . posted on the main enterences of the forest around Williams in unit 8.

The newest improvemnet you will notice to help identify which roads are closed'

they have added a yellow sticker bellow the NF rd number. stating the road is closed. this is smart idea and really helps to identify which roads are indead closed'

now for the stupid part- i noticed a road closed sign on a road we normally use- its # is not listed on the map

we had to go another 200 ft farther to the open road - which took us up a hill and it then went back down to the same road 100 yrds from the sign posted road closed. it was a stretch of road less than 200 ft out to the main road - # is not listed on map. now if we were cominmg from the other direction they did not put the yellow rd closed on this post.

it made no sence to post one end and not the other and it made no sence to divert you 200 yrds up around a hill to get to the main road .

and hear agin they were not posting all the roads with yellow stickers that were closed on the map .

why do some thing half assed and really just add to the confusion .

now if i see a rd with the yellow sticker i know its closed , cool idea but then why not put it on all the roads that are closed and not just some of them .!??

at least 20-30 camps , all illegal according to the new maps on designated camping.

At least the morons were watching the fire restrictions - i hope

oilcan · May 20, 2012

I have not been following this topic that close but was wondering if these closures apply to 12AW unit also?

hornhunter247 · May 20, 2012

Muley I agree somewhat with what your saying here, but do you think that every road should have a Y just to save you a couple hundred yards of driving? Someone probably just forgot to put the sticker on the other end. In the next few years you won't even need the sticker to let you know the roads closed. Their next stage is going to be to rip up the ground and reseed the entire roadway. Were just in the first stage of the road closures.

I for one love the roads being closed, but their idea of camping is a little wrong. If your not happy the FS is asking for opinions and ideas as what they can do to make it better. But the roads are a done deal, closed forever.

I just call em as I see em!

muleymaniac · May 20, 2012

it could be so simple . all the roads that are now closed ,just remove the sign with the FS# and let the grader back up 25 yrds and rip-up the road out to the main road/ turn off.

new rule could simply state , only use roads that have a FS#

azoutback · May 20, 2012

But the roads are a done deal, closed forever.

Not so! Dont give in to these rules if you dont like them! National forest service land belongs to us! We should have the final say in what is open or closed. We have become slaves to the thugs in Washington. People are just to scared of the government.Look around guys, they are taking our freedoms one by one! In ten years you wont recognise this state or counrty if we dont stand up. Big government is for real, and it is choking this counrty. Stand up and fight or be railroaded into submission..

hornhunter247 · May 20, 2012

I wouldn't change it back if I could azoutback. At first I was furious over what they were doing, now after spending some time in the field, I truly feel like it is a great improvement and will make the hunting better in most areas. No ones saying its closed to us, just no vehicles. Now some places feel pretty far from the open roads now, but it only took me 3 hrs to hike to the deepest place in unit 9. That's not unreasonable imo. I hope other districts close about the same amount of roads as the Kiabab district did, its only going to help.

I just call em as I see em!

sagebrush · May 21, 2012

hornhunter247

Three hours for you. What about our seniors and youth? Are the road closures going to improve the outdoor experience for them or make them stay home instead? I think the motivation is to reduce the number of hunters in the state so the forests can eventually be closed to all hunting. After all, if hunters are less than 2% of the total population, why do we need to make special concessions (the taking of wildlife) for such a small minority?

Everyone tends to look at government encroachment from their limited view. I think that is a very dangerous choice. Guys in their prime think there will be fewer people in their hunting area and that is a good thing. The people that stay out of those areas are less likely to buy a hunting license, donate to critter groups and vote to protect our heritage. Every time we turn away a youth from the outdoor experience, we don't just lose one supporter, we lose them and all their progeny. In the long run, we lose much more by excluding participation in the outdoors in exchange for a slightly better experience for a limited number of people.

hornhunter247 · May 21, 2012

Sage maybe I should have included all the details. It took me and my 5 year old diabetic son 3 hrs to hike into the deepest closure.

I don't go there just because of hunting, actually I will never draw a tag in that unit nor will I ever apply. Its my favorite place on this earth and my family and I just love going there. 99 percent of the roads that are now closed had almost no outlets or were completely impassable. They truly had no reason to be there. The coolest places in the area, like the indian ruins, old bear traps, trappers cabins, ect, had no roads leading to them anyways.

The FS left plenty of roads open to completely enjoy the entire unit imho.

I just call em as I see em!

azoutback · May 21, 2012

>hornhunter247
>
>Three hours for you. What about
>our seniors and youth? Are
>the road closures going to
>improve the outdoor experience for
>them or make them stay
>home instead? I think the
>motivation is to reduce the
>number of hunters in the
>state so the forests can
>eventually be closed to all
>hunting. After all, if hunters
>are less than 2% of
>the total population, why do
>we need to make special
>concessions (the taking of wildlife)
>for such a small minority?
>
>
>Everyone tends to look at government
>encroachment from their limited view.
>I think that is a
>very dangerous choice. Guys in
>their prime think there will
>be fewer people in their
>hunting area and that is
>a good thing. The people
>that stay out of those
>areas are less likely to
>buy a hunting license, donate
>to critter groups and vote
>to protect our heritage. Every
>time we turn away a
>youth from the outdoor experience,
>we don't just lose one
>supporter, we lose them and
>all their progeny. In the
>long run, we lose much
>more by excluding participation in
>the outdoors in exchange for
>a slightly better experience for
>a limited number of people.
>

You nailed it.

sagebrush · May 21, 2012

hh247

Glad to hear you had your 5 year old out there. I'm sure the time he spends with you in the outdoors will become some of his most treasured memories.

hornhunter247 · May 21, 2012

Sage your exactly right! I took all 3 of my kids and 2 of my nephews. The kids are what matters, and protecting and leaving them some place to go to take their children is what this is all about! Its so easy for all of you to sit here and blame the government or the antis for screwing us and taking away our rights, when it was sportsmen who asked for this from the beggining. What did all of you think was going to happen when we were bitching about all the atv's and ohv's riding all over the place and making new roads? Yes its a little more than what we wanted but I do know that I called and complained more than anyone about the off road use.

It was nice to spend 10 days in the woods with my family and didn't see any tracks off the road this year. Its about time the FS started trying to fix the problem.

I just call em as I see em!

muleymaniac · May 23, 2012

LAST EDITED ON May-23-12 AT 07:37AM (MST)[p]how much fun did the kids have camped next to the road.

road closeures are on thing but to have designated camping and restrictions of vechiles no more than 30 ft from road are crazy.

NOBODY was camped in a designated spot and nobody was even close to the road!

one would think for safety reasons that it should be a minimum of 30 feet from the road.
how can anyone enjoy the heritage of family camping with this kind of vechile restriction!

the dust alone would be a safety issue.

kids playing next to a road, where fast traveling vechiles raise so much dust visibility can be limited , isnt my idea of enjoying the outdoors.

hornhunter247 · May 23, 2012

Muley I did not camp right next to the road. I camped down the same spur that I have camped at for the last 20 yrs. Yes I knew the rules and I challenged the FS and G&F on it daily. Almost everyone of them agreed that the spur we were camped on was and always has been used for a campground. If I hadn't of had the kids there I might have done it differently but your right it is a safety issue and not 1 of them told me to move or threaten me with a ticket. I was polite and explained my position on it to multiple people.

You can write in and offer suggestions, they want to hear your opinion on this. The FS rangers that I spoke with thought the idea of leaving the spurs that have a definite camping site open for use. I'm ok with getting a ticket every year for the safety of my kids and I will keep on fighting the camping issue.

I just call em as I see em!

jvw · May 23, 2012

is utah sueing the forrest circus over something ? where do I sign up!!

GotBowAz · May 25, 2012

HH247, while I understand where you coming from I sit very much on the fence with this one. I am assuming you are in great shape. I wonder how you're going to look at things when your 70 and you can no longer get close to your most favorite place in the world. Especially when the only way you're going to camp is by packing it in. When you have to camp and put up with all the dust and dirt so close to the only roads open and camping allowed. Boy that sounds like fun now don't it?

I imagine right now you may think you will always get out away from roads and always enjoy your favorite place. I sure hope you can but the road closures have limited your time to do so my friend, weather you believe it now or not. The older I get the more I want to be back in where my favorite places are and I want to be able to do it safely and enjoy the experiences with my family and friends. Not eat dust on my sandwich or put up with the camping neighbor and their crappy distorted music.

GBA

GotBowAz · May 25, 2012

HH247, I just reread one of your posts. 10 days camping, in an area with no road?? With family? I went on a 7 day back pack trip into the wilderness area a couple of years ago with my son for 7 days. We had 62 pound packs a piece and yes we had hunting gear. Either you didn't camp back in where you couldn't see any tracks or you have pack mules or horses? That being said, California just passed a law or is working on one where you cannot have horse or mules in wilderness areas anymore. Not to mention everyone can not afford pack horses or mules or they live where they can't have them. So if a law is passed that you can't have pack animals how do you plan to camp, with family, for 10 days, in a place with no tracks? You aren't and THAT would be a shame now wouldn't it?

GBA

sagebrush · May 25, 2012

GBA

Access when HH247 is seventy is a non-issue. By then we will have been stripped of the right to keep and bear arms and all of the forests will be closed to people so they can be preserved for the wildlife. That way all the people in DC and NYC can sleep well at night knowing somewhere out west a scene from Bambi is being played out with singing bears and dancing deer. Oh, and don't forget the benevolent howling wolf silhouetted against a full moon.

My sarcasm is not directed toward anyone in particlualr unless you donate to Defenders of Wildlife, HSUS, et al, or live in DC or NYC and think you know better what should be done out west than the people that live here.

GotBowAz · May 25, 2012

Funny stuff Sagebrush. LOL Very sad and the scary thing is it could be true someday.

GBA

hornhunter247 · May 25, 2012

GBA we didn't pack in at all. We were camped right off the main road, actually down about a hundred yards on a spur. When I say we saw no tracks I meant from the 100 guys up there every year griding the forest on atv's every 10 feet looking for shed antlers! And yes it really was that bad up there. And yes I'm pretty good shape right now and in 35 years when I'm 70, I really hope to be in good enough shape to still hike to some of my favorite places! Like I said though the furthest place I could find was only 3 miles in, so I'm pretty hopeful.

I just call em as I see em!