kill it?

justr_86

Long Time Member
Messages
4,091
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-09 AT 04:45PM (MST)[p]This happened yesterday but I'm not going to say names cause they are both elected officials.

You and your family go to your cabin in a very rural cabin community and take your family dogs with you. You turn them loose while you relax and watch football while thanksgiving dinner is being cooked. You hear the dogs barking and carrying on about 300 yards from the cabin. So you go to investigate, you get to the dogs all barking under a huge cottonwood tree. You look into the tree and there is a mtn lion just laying on a branch about 50 feet above your head. You get scared and run up to the cabin and lock the doors and call the fish and game. They disbatch an officer who is just sitting Down to his thanksgiving dinner and he heads your way. He knocks on the door and you unlock 3 locks, reach out and jerk him inside and lock the door again. Keep in mind your dogs have had this cat in the tree going on 3 hours now. You take the officer who has reassured you there is no danger to the tree but you make sure to tell your wife to lock the door. You show the officer the cat and tell him to shoot it, its a danger to everyone around here for the holidays and to your dogs.

The officer does not shoot the cat and you proceed to threaten his and his boss's job and so on until the officer grabs the dogs from beneath the tree and says have a nice day.

The cat is there because there are deer in the area and has not posed any threat to any human or livestock. The wandering cat and wandering dogs crossed paths is the only incident.

The cat did not get shot and left the tree and has not been seen again. But you call the officer again today and demand he bring a pack of dogs and hunt the cat and kill it.

Do you think the cat needs to be killed?
 
kill it?
What the hell for?
Lock your doors?
I'll show you a scar one of these days and yes the cat that caused the scar is still alive.
You'd best stay in your house/pickup at all times,otherwise you might get close to another one of these human killers while out hunting.
Just one question?
Why would the cat need to be killed?
I'm waitin for a reply from HoundDawg on this one.
I like hunting Lions and about everything else,but if I see a 30" Buck that somehow survived all the hunting pressure should I hurry & call the DWR & see if we can kill the Buck?
In the mean time take a chill pill & enjoy Thanksgiving weekend!
 
I don't think it needs to be killed either! I was seein if anyone here could see a reason to. It kinda bothers me that one of the state legislators would be that irrational! And a county sheriff!
 
Well said, Ramone. Why would you kill it? Yes, they eat deer. No, they are not wolves.
 
Sorry for the rant but this crap pisses me off!
Ask the elected officials if they have permits,and if it's hunting season for Lions,and if the Lion is posing a threat,go ahead & kill it the LAZY way,otherwise have them grow a PAIR & go on a real life Lion hunt.
 
that lion ought to be killed for being worthless.....it should have eaten that panty waste and his trouble making dogs when it had the chance....




great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
Sorry, but after all the deer that Mt. Lions have decimated I say only good cat is a dead cat!
 
Easy D13er!
The Lion was about to eat the officials.
And Obama might of been one of them?
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-27-09 AT 07:33PM (MST)[p]I for one am glad that deer are learning to stay away from the roads the only use I have for them is for lion food.
I want everyone to have a chance to shoot a Boone and crocket lion.
Please let the deer walk and do not shoot I want to harvest my Trophy Tom.
 
>Sorry, but after all the deer
>that Mt. Lions have decimated
>I say only good cat
>is a dead cat!

The only creature "decimating" Deer are the two legged type. lions were here a long time ago, in greater numbers, and there were more Deer also.
2a0fcsk.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-28-09 AT 04:58PM (MST)[p]They should have shot the cat and shouldn't have bothered the warden. The thirty inch buck comment is COMPLETELY irrelevant.

"Life's tough... It's even tougher if you're stupid."
- John Wayne
 
Well if that was in utah, they should have been given a ticket for pursuing lions without a permit and wildlife harrassment. i dought they had a cougar pursuit permit if there that scared of a lion 300 yards from there cabin....and just how many deer have those dogs been chaseing while there roaming around the mountain ???..i'll bet there not to deer broke either. damn flatlanders
 
>>Sorry, but after all the deer
>>that Mt. Lions have decimated
>>I say only good cat
>>is a dead cat!
>
>The only creature "decimating" Deer are
>the two legged type. lions
>were here a long time
>ago, in greater numbers, and
>there were more Deer also.
>
>
2a0fcsk.gif



257Tony'

first off how old are you? n where do you get your info from....

cause in the old days there were bounties on bobcats, Coyote's, n Mt. Lion's, that why the deer #'s were better and you can bet the wolf were one animal thatwas keep in check!....
 
There are many things they could've been sited for but were not. I would be justified if they were sited for harrassing wildlife, no pursuit permit, threatening an officer.

It was utah, The legislator is trying to make heads roll over this and the sheriff is trying to make a twist on the dnr for not taking care of the problem like he wanted them to. People are seeing through it and their days are numbered as elected officials I feel.
 
>There are many things they could've
>been sited for but were
>not. I would be justified
>if they were sited for
>harrassing wildlife, no pursuit permit,
>threatening an officer.
>
>It was utah, The legislator is
>trying to make heads roll
>over this and the sheriff
>is trying to make a
>twist on the dnr for
>not taking care of the
>problem like he wanted them
>to. People are seeing through
>it and their days are
>numbered as elected officials I
>feel.



over a worthless kat that eating up most of the deer....sheees
 
>manny,
>We coulda said:'over a worthless Pastor'
>but we didn't!


thats the problem with this society you think animals have more rights then humans, welcome to obamma land....n your a worthless human.....
 
Don't say it's a worthless cat & I won't say you're a worthless human!
Shouldn't you be in Church preaching?
 
>Don't say it's a worthless cat
>& I won't say you're
>a worthless human!
>Shouldn't you be in Church preaching?
>


smells like PETA to me....
 
Manny your way out of line in my opinion. Animal rights "Obamma land" your freaking nuts. To kill the lion would be way to easy anybody could do it. To let it live is something your probably not capable of right? Then what? Dogs were out of check shouldn't have happened. 300 yds from the house.




Rutnbuck
 
>Manny your way out of line
>in my opinion. Animal rights
>"Obamma land" your freaking nuts.
> To kill the lion
>would be way to easy
>anybody could do it. To
>let it live is something
>your probably not capable of
>right? Then what? Dogs
>were out of check shouldn't
>have happened. 300
>yds from the house.
>
>
>
>
> Rutnbuck


I just don't get how some of you here can have such distain for a guy who poaches one deer then for an animal that does more damage in a week to the local deer herd?
 
So in the Good Book manny?
Does it state: 'We shall killeth all Lions & maketh them extinct'?
And one more question: In your opinion manny,Did Noah F###eth up?
 
No disrespect Manny. I understand your point. I would under legale hunt regs take a lion in a New York heart beat. But to kill one up a tree under these circomstances is out of line.

Rutnbuck
 
>So in the Good Book manny?
>
>Does it state: 'We shall killeth
>all Lions & maketh them
>extinct'?
>And one more question: In your
>opinion manny,Did Noah F###eth up?
>


-----

Genesis 1: 28 God blessed Adam and Eve and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground...

some of you guys crack me up, you show your immaturity when you attack my faith, just because I speak my mind on issue that effect hunting, you may think you look like a big man, but your just a panty waste!
 
Well if there elected officials...lets have there names. We need to know what kind of people were electing. and who to vote out. where was this at? i might wanna go try an catch that cat to, just to see if its really as scary as they thought it was.
 
If you find a rattlesnake living under your front porch, kill it. If you find a mountain lion living in your back yard, kill it. Mountain lions, if given the opportunity, will take your kid or grandkid. It's in the news all the time.

Eel

Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
 
In the late 80's early 90's the deer herd was strong as with the lion population now the lion population is very low .
I can speak for Idaho and there will not be a population increase for either until there are new biologists and commissioners .
On a side not maybe people need to stop driving as they kill to many deer.
Yup " SAVE OUR DEER HERDS STOP DRIVING ".
 
>In the late 80's early 90's
>the deer herd was strong
>as with the lion population
>now the lion population is
>very low .
>I can speak for Idaho and
>there will not be a
>population increase for either until
>there are new biologists and
>commissioners .
>On a side not maybe people
>need to stop driving as
>they kill to many deer.
>
>Yup " SAVE OUR DEER HERDS
>STOP DRIVING ".



dude i can only comment on the west coast herds, Oregon, Calif is over run by Cats, Mt Lions have not been hunted in Calif for over 30 years....
 
I am glad the officer did what he did. Taking a stand at political corruptness is where it is at!

Also, mountain lions are good for the environment. Every year they get at least one or two tree huggers!
 
>Also, mountain lions are good for
>the environment. Every year they
>get at least one or
>two tree huggers!


Homer raises a valid point,...probably the most valid point of this whole thread.
 
I'm a fan of SSS. But if I were a Game Warden, I would have handled it the same way he did.

"The value of any trophy from the field depends not on its size but on the magnitude of the effort expended in its pursuit." ~ Aldo Leopold
 
The officer said The cat is a juvenille.
There have not been any more reports or sightings of the cat since thanksgiving day.
 
>There shouldn't have been a report
>in the first place. The
>only thing heard should've been
>a gun shot.


yah, he'll never do that again....
 
Manny urban sprawl and habitat loss with effect mule deer long before cats will. You do realize you can only have large populations of predators if you have large populations of prey.. You cant have a HUGE cat problem when there are no deer, which I agree with UT deer herds are struggling, but its not because of cats only. To think that is just stupid.
 
"urban sprawl and habitat loss" "urban sprawl and habitat loss", "urban sprawl and habitat loss" "urban sprawl and habitat loss"

Yes, but how about the vast and huge chunks of land, much of Kali North of Sac. is nearly unchanged, that has NO "urban sprawl or habitat loss", very few deer, but plenty of daily sightings of Mt Lions?

I've read about enough ignorant reply's responding to our claims that Mt lions haven't hurt our West Coast deer herds. Bunch of self centered, robotic, lame brained responses.

In the early 90's, we had huge herds of deer and a healthy lion population. One deer per week per lion, with absolutely no check on a exploding lion growth has effectively thinned out the deer population to drastically low numbers. Our Fish and Game may tell a different story but...Fact, they don't tell the whole truth because their hands were tied by the lib voters and they claim there's nothing they can do about it!!

But that is not my point i'm trying to make here. "Most" Utards could care less what has happened or will happen in OUR West Coast States and some of your above statements prove my point. Too self centered in your own little world to give a Krap! They think about themselves and their own wants and needs and screw anybody else,.. particularly if from the Coast States.

This whole argument is stupid X2. Many states do seem to do a good job of managing their predators. Fine, great, i'm all for it! But don't think that can't or won't change. I say, don't kill them all, hunt a few, manage the populations as you've been doing. But to come on here and tell us that we shouldn't try and manage our expanded lion populations, because you want see more of and hunt more often of mt lions where you live, is stupid. Plain & simple!

Joey
 
Hey Joey, I didn't think it would be necessary to splain it again, but apparently it was.

when I hear the habitat response, I wanna laugh, I go out to the desert and see the millions of acre?s of feed and Habitat B.S!...
 
So manny?
Basically you preach what the good book says?
Which says you shall obey laws,right?
But then you turn around and tell us you'll do as you damn well please no matter the law?
So,do you practice what you preach or not?
Remember when you got pissed when that mm'er called you a hypocrite?
I think he was right.
 
Joey no where is anyone saying what you said. there needs to be a balance and the western states are at a huge imbalance. But when others are telling me that my choice of trophy is not worth a price well there is a problem . I honestly could care less if i never hunt or kill a deer or elk ( ungulate ) I like hunting predators it is my passion. I get sick and tired of people telling me I should not have that opportunity .When others place there rights above mine ( or vise versa ) that is nothing but wrong thinking.
 
"Joey no where is anyone saying what you said.

Smiley, when you post "I for one am glad that deer are learning to stay away from the roads the only use I have for them is for lion food."

Is that not being self centered? Because you don't personally like to hunt deer, you don't care if the lions eat them all? Thanks for making my point!!


When 257tony says in response to Mannys post of their impact on our West Coast populations; "The only creature "decimating" Deer are the two legged type."

Is that not a ignorant statement regarding predators, specifically, "our" cat situation?


I've seen dozens of posts regarding mt.lion protection from houndsmen and i do support your efforts and sport, very much wishing you were allowed to do business in Kali. I also do believe, as stated above, in balance and man's ability to sustain a balanced predator prey ratio. I do tire though, of what i see as the continual "what happened in Kali or the West Coast doesn't matter" attitude and i pointedly expressed that in my post.

Some of the Northern States are now in a much similar situation with wolves, that we out here have been with lions, yet i hear not a word of any protection from you for the wolves. Very much likewise, you're not going to hear much from us, West coast guys, about wanting protection for the cats. If their(lions and wolves) numbers get too high and out of balance, they BOTH will decimate a struggling deer population which is of no ones best interests.

Joey
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-09 AT 09:50AM (MST)[p]I was showing how irrational everyone is being. Purposefully .Blanket statements are very rarely if ever a good thing .
I am from the coast I know the coasts problems .
I also am from Idaho , although I do not like wolves they are here and now should be managed ( not exterminated ) .
I guess I get bent when I see individual rights and opportunities being squashed .
Yes the Left , I mean west coast does have a major problem with predators and something should be done.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-09 AT 12:35PM (MST)[p]I am only talking about Utah here, but if these true blue deer hunters really got out and hunted, and paid attention they would soon find out that the lion population is very scarce, and that lions pose very little threat to what's left of our deer herd. Man has decimated the deer herd....whether it be hunting, roadkill, habitat decimation, or plain old ill management practices. Lions do eat deer I am not going to argue that point, but lets take a hike and just find out how many. Want to make bets on how many Lion kills we can find? Manny for a guy who always preaches you sure don't believe in the good books obeying the laws of the land?????????? I won't bash your religion, but be careful what you preach ;)

sorry had a spelling issue :)
 
Sage I cant comment on CA habitat situation because I dont live there. But I grew up in Southern Utah and winter range habitat loss down there is pretty significant, and drought effects deer populations also, and the winter range is segmented and seperated by highways and subdivisions etc which all effect deer herds. But to say you can have HUGE amounts of predators and no deer just doesnt make sense, you cant have one without the other. I also feel that predators need to be managed but it always seems that the first thing everyone jumps to, instead of maybe looking at tag numbers, hard winters etc.

Manny the desert in general has never been an oasis of animal populations, hate to break it to you. Thats why they are called deserts.
 
257Tony'

first off how old are you? n where do you get your info from....

cause in the old days there were bounties on bobcats, Coyote's, n Mt. Lion's, that why the deer #'s were better and you can bet the wolf were one animal thatwas keep in check!....



I'm talking about the old days before man came out west in massive numbers, so 200 years ago. Man by far and away plays the biggest role in wildlife populations, for good and bad. In the case of Mule Deer, you'd have to say its for the worse.
2a0fcsk.gif
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-01-09 AT 06:48PM (MST)[p]K self righteous police, please point out where did I say ?break the law? was not this post about two elected officials dealing with a Mt. Lion and some dogs?

As I said before some here have a PETA mentality, every state has to manage their herds accordingly, and Nevada being next door to Calif. Manages aggressively, but not Oregon why do you think that is.

You know the only people who try and crucify me on this site is, atheists and LDS, I have normal human opinions, you self righteous bigots are always trying to trap me in any thing I might say to justify why Christianity is bad, guess what, God don't need me to defend him, we're all just friggen human, the crap you say online you don't have the guts to say to some one face so you spew it out on me, hiding behind a computer.

You don't seem to care that I have similar passions about hunting but you rather divide instead of gather? do you know how many times I get attacked here on this site, purely because I'm a Christian, only to get a private message latter from them back tracking not publicly but private?.

Hmmmmm, when I get pushed to the wall with B.S comments I fight back, but only my comments get deleted, Hmmm, double standard?.
 
Easy does it manny.
I never let Religion interfere with rather I like a guy or not.
You can be whatever Religion you wanna be & it won't bother me at all.
I didn't think preacher men were as hot headed as you?
You said: 'Only good cat is a dead cat'
You said:'over a worthless kat that eating up most of the deer....sheees'
You said:'thats the problem with this society you think animals have more rights then humans, welcome to obamma land....n your a worthless human.....'
You even gave us a Biblical lesson!
I went down the list on this thread,I counted to 53,I don't see one post deleted,not even one of yours missing,so what the hell you talking about?
You ain't gettin attacked & I sure the hell ain't gonna send you a PM!
When you left the Political Forum you knew you'd have to grow a PAIR to hang out on the campfire.
You may not like cats,that's OK,other people may not like Deer,that's OK,you still gotta obey the Law of the land manny.
This ain't got anything to do with Religion,so don't say we hate Christians & don't drag Religion in to the debate.
We love ya manny!
 
RamoneAlone said: (So in the Good Book manny?
Does it state: 'We shall killeth all Lions & maketh them extinct'?And one more question: In your opinion manny,Did Noah F###eth up?
==============
manny,
We coulda said:'over a worthless Pastor' but we didn't
Don't say it's a worthless cat & I won't say you're a worthless human! Shouldn't you be in Church preaching?
============
So manny?
Basically you preach what the good book says?
Which says you shall obey laws,right?
But then you turn around and tell us you'll do as you damn well please no matter the law?
So,do you practice what you preach or not?
Remember when you got pissed when that mm'er called you a hypocrite?
I think he was right.
===========
This ain't got anything to do with Religion,so don't say we hate Christians & don't drag Religion in to the debate.

============

so who brought up the religion thing......?what you smoking man!
 
"the only people who try and crucify me on this site is, atheists and LDS,...you self righteous bigots are always trying to trap me in any thing I might say to justify why Christianity is bad, ."

Manny, you paint with a very broad brush. I am LDS and I've never made a swipe at you because of your religious beliefs. To the contrary I've found it refreshing the steadfastness for which you share your values. I'm pretty sure the LDS faith is not on a mission to discredit Christianity being as the LDS faith centers around Christ.

I find your inflammatory remark to be quite frankly slanderous and offensive. I am neither a bigot nor a person who attempts to discredit Christianity and for that I resent your remark.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
>"the only people who try and
>crucify me on this site
>is, atheists and LDS,...you self
>righteous bigots are always trying
>to trap me in any
>thing I might say to
>justify why Christianity is bad,
>."
>
>Manny, you paint with a very
>broad brush. I am
>LDS and I've never made
>a swipe at you because
>of your religious beliefs.
>To the contrary I've found
>it refreshing the steadfastness for
>which you share your values.
> I'm pretty sure the
>LDS faith is not on
>a mission to discredit Christianity
>being as the LDS faith
>centers around Christ.
>
>I find your inflammatory remark to
>be quite frankly slanderous and
>offensive. I am neither
>a bigot nor a person
>who attempts to discredit Christianity
>and for that I resent
>your remark.
>
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg



======


First off, I have a life long dear friend who is a LDS, but in all faiths there are a few of those who are what I've stated, It was not my intention to paint with a broad brush, but I stand by what I said, "I have been attacked by both LDS n Atheist here on this site."

As you can see I've been here almost as long as Bessy was, so I've been hit allot, I know when I'm pushed into a corner with what feels like hate from some, I tend to get my feathers Ruffed up a bit, to my detriment...

If you go back just on this post alone and see where it starts, I did not mention religion till Romeo pushed it n then denied it (fact check)...

I'll be the first to apologize when I've miss-stepped perhaps I did here also, but it's hard to single out a rebuttal on an open forum as this with out some one like yourself feeling offended, which was not my intention...

So to a gentleman as your self, please excuse my broad-brush stroke, and now as I sit here writing this I can imagine Romalone Laughing his head off, Thanx Manny
 
>Easy does it manny.
>I never let Religion interfere with
>rather I like a guy
>or not.
>You can be whatever Religion you
>wanna be & it won't
>bother me at all.
>I didn't think preacher men were
>as hot headed as you?
>
>You said: 'Only good cat is
>a dead cat'
>You said:'over a worthless kat that
>eating up most of the
>deer....sheees'
>You said:'thats the problem with this
>society you think animals have
>more rights then humans, welcome
>to obamma land....n your a
>worthless human.....'
>You even gave us a Biblical
>lesson!
>I went down the list on
>this thread,I counted to 53,I
>don't see one post deleted,not
>even one of yours missing,so
>what the hell you talking
>about?
>You ain't gettin attacked & I
>sure the hell ain't gonna
>send you a PM!
>When you left the Political Forum
>you knew you'd have to
>grow a PAIR to hang
>out on the campfire.
>You may not like cats,that's OK,other
>people may not like Deer,that's
>OK,you still gotta obey the
>Law of the land manny.
>
>This ain't got anything to do
>with Religion,so don't say we
>hate Christians & don't drag
>Religion in to the debate.
>
>We love ya manny!
>



what cat got your tongue? (pun intended)
 
In responce to post 51

Coyote-chaser, long story but i grew up on a large cattle ranch-farm out here that we'd usually see 100 deer on a evening hunt, no problem. Was that way when my Dad was a kid, i understood, all the way through my early high school years until one evening, i spotted the first coyote i ever had seen on the place. Within 10 years, the deer were down by over 1/2, maybe seeing 15-20 a nite, and we were seeing coyotes, sometimes groups of them, near every hunt.

When my grandfather was a boy in the early 1900's on that same ranch, there were No deer, none, he killed for food, the first deer that he ever saw as a teenager and i remember him telling me that he was not even sure what it was at the time. But at that time, there were mt lions and coyotes a plenty he said.

That is about a 80-90 year cycle. Lots of deer and no predators to lots of predators and no deer. This was just one smallish range of mountains but it was all private and can be an example for what can and does happen in other places. Hope you can grasp what i'm saying here.

Yes, we have huge tracts of public land in N.East and N.West Kali with no or only single roadways and little if any damage to the winter grounds. Habitat in many of these places begs for deer but some are completely or near void of deer. The cats still have a few deer to prey on, they have the rabbit populations to go through yet, and they migrate and work the pockets of remaining deer as we talk here. It's sad!

Mother nature will correct the issue of us being presently high in the predator cycle by there being no more prey animals for the predators to eat, much as there were no deer when my Grandpa was a boy. When the food is gone, the prey animal will either prey on domestic animals or die of starvation... and thus the cycle will begin again.

I have given the good fight in this State to try and get our Fish and Game to establish a balanced predator prey program. We have the ability. This was my major in Collage, my interest in life, one of my passions. I truly believe it's the only way if we are to avoid more 80 yr cycles and not soon lose our game animals on public lands for the remainder of my lifetime and that of the next generation or two. The voters of Kali have spoken. I go to the meetings, i say my piece, i'm a tiny thorn in the f&Game's paw, but nothing gets changed...yet.

Joey
 
Sage dont think that I dont feel that predators need to managed, cause I do. BUT when you look at tag numbers here in UT, its the two-legged predators that are wiping out deer herds, not the four-legged. You add long shooting guns, high powered optics, dudes making 4-wheeler trails in every canyon, hard winters, predators and not managing herds according to those types of changes then you will see a deer herds go down and get held down. Now when a herd is trying to recover, then yes I feel that predator control should be stronger. But as far as just basic predator population dynamics you cannot have a large population of predators without the prey base to support it. It just cannot happen. Nature will correct itself over a long period of time like you mentioned if left alone, but the states game management programs are far from just letting things happen. UT needs to cut tags and try to improve habitat, but I doubt it will happen.
 
You guys in other states, Utah, Wy, Colo, Nev... are able to hunt your predators and that is effectively keeping your numbers in check. I never questioned that, Ever! My words of needed balance were purely West Coast with a warning that if the voters choose to, they can put you in a similar situation and already have with the wolf. Yes, i agree with you completely on that side of the country. But your statement,

"you cannot have a large population of predators without the prey base to support it.",

i can not agree with that statement as we do have a large population of predators without a large prey base. We DID have a lot of prey animals, not so long ago. When i moved to Chester Calif. 25 years ago, you could not drive faster than 45 mph around Lake Almanor without surely hitting a deer. Our Fish & Game claimed that we had the largest migratory herd of deer in Kali. The last 25 years, the predators have gone unchecked and lived the good life. Now, you can make the same drive several times yet maybe not see a single deer!!! The predators are still here. They have not yet ate all the food animals...

I fear i'm wasting my words. I speak truths. I'm not making this stuff up. Believe what you want. I agree to disagree!

Joey
 

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