Labs

[huntsonora]

Andys post about his puppies got me thinking about the possibility of me buying a Lab puppy and I have a few questions for you guys that know a lot more about dogs than I do. Which is better, a male lab or a female lab, for hunting? I realize it probably does not make a big difference but the only puppy left is a black male. He comes from champion bloodlines and the man that bred his dog searched long and hard for the right mate for his dog. He hunts all the time and the father of the puppy is fairly amazing from what I hear. Do males require more or less training and what are you guys thoughts?

Drummond

 

[AZbowhntr]

I'm probably not the best person to reply here because both of my bird dogs have been male. I have been told that the females are better as far as maturing quicker. That said I haven't had problems with either of mine (one lab and a GSP). My GSP is definately smarter than my lab was though. In everything from house training to retrieving. Good luck with your decision.

 

[sirfilbert]

I've hunted and trained both genders. The most important thing is that the dog must have the "drive". I may upset some but the dog cannot read his "papers". I cannot tell you how to determine "drive" when picking out a pup but make sure that he comes from hunting stock not necessarily "papered" stock. I had a black male that would hunt from sun up to sun down and come home slap ass tired but at 4 the next morning be sittin' by the door waiting to go. After three days of this he couldn't wag his tail, wife thought he broke it but he still sat by the door waiting to hunt. That's "drive". As far as training, my opinion is that females are easier to train. They take correction beeter and I haven't noticed mine being as headstrong as my male. Males need alot of attention early to break bad habits and to learn who's boss. Make sure you get copies of books by Richard Wolters, Game Dog and Water Dog. These are the best I've read on training pups and have worked magnificently for me. My .02

 

[Buckrub]

Drummond, I tend to agree with Sirfilbert. I have three yellows, one male and two females. The females aren't as headstrong and tend to train and behave modestly. However for sheer desire and "balls-to-the-wall" intensity, my male is an absolute "beast". Will hunt til his feet bleed, but he requires a firm hand with alittle help from the "electronics" early on til he settles in a groove. Given a choice, I'd opt for a female. Another good book selection is "Training your Retriever", by James Lamb Free. It's probably in it's 20th print by now, but it's the "bible" for training. Good luck!!!

 

[woodruffhunter]

Drummond:

I am getting a Deutch Drathaar pup and had your same question. I am no expert on dogs and was leaning towards the female.

My friend, who trains bird dogs said that it didn't really matter if it was male or female other than it can be a nuisance when they go into heat.

But that is one of many opinions. I am sure you will be happy with whatever choice you make.

Jason

 

[AZBuckSnort]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-20-03 AT 08:53PM (MST)[p] I've had a total of 5 Labrador Retrievers (in addition my Dad currently has two female blacks), 4 of which were females. Each dog is an entity unto itself so you always hesitate to give a blanket statement about one gender being this or that over another within the breed. That being said, I'm going to echo the sentiments of the majority of the other replys and recommend a female, especially since it's going to be your first dog.

Labs are very, very smart and with a sound training program (the books the other fellas recommended are all good as is Bill Tarrant's "Hey Pup, Fetch It Up") you really can't screw one up providing it has enough integrity in its' genes to live up to the breed standards. Your buddy's male pup may be an awesome dog with great bloodlines so you don't want to discount it; however, it would be better if you were able to size it up against its' littermates and have the opportunity to see his sire and dame work in the field.

When you pick a Lab to bring home remember that you've just added a member of the family for the next 12+ years so don't be in a hurry and pick what's available over picking what you WANT. You might want to stick with a yellow coated female being as you're in AZ cause no matter what anyone else says, the light coated dogs seem to handle the heat better. Keep that in mind for dove season. Finally, all of 'em are the greatest dogs on earth.Period. Pick one and you'llhave the time of your life training it and having it share your home. Good Luck.

 

[Wyobowhunt]

I am a little biased because I have two female yellow labs but have also had a black lab male. I think females are a lot easier to train and also listen better than males. I would have to agree on what type of drive they have, one of the first things I do when picking out a new pup is to take an old sock or something soft and see what pup's run to the sock and which ones don't. This will narrow down my selection.

Just another bit of information my 2 1/2 year old yellow is just getting ready to have pups and almost all the guys that want her pups have asked for the first crack at the females. She is an unbelieveable dog and it helps that I am breeding her to an off spring of the lab that appeared on the cover of cabela's 2 Christmas's ago.

Later,

Wyobowhunt

P.S Good Luck

 

[OSOK]

Drumm,

The most important thing to remember when you make this puppy decision is as follows!!! What kind of hunting will the dog be used fore??? Seriously ask yourself this! Is the majority of your hunting going to be waterfowl or upland w/ this dog??? I strongly would not recommend going w/ a "frisbie dog", aka LAB, unless you are really in need of a waterfowl dog...

You will find that a German Shorthair, is IMO, a smarter (although more hard headed), far superior breed for upland game hunting. Having owned both, and hunting w/ many others. I've never seen a lab that would keep up w/ a shorthair fore more than half of a day. And that was an 18month old pointing lab, that was nearly as off his rocker about birds as the pointers I've hunted w/. Notice I said nearly...

 

[Elmacho]

I have been involved with both hunting and hunt test(field trial) dogs for a couple years now. I have trained with a few Pros too. The guys are right about the female being less stubborn at times, but it is not a rule. They can more tempermental than the males, but each dog is different. Remember, females go into heat up to twice a year, the heat may effect their drive for 3-6 weeks at a time. If you spay/neuter the, will gain a few pounds.

Yellow would be a great choice for AZ.
I hunt AZ a ton and both my current dogs are black. If the sun is out, it penetrates the fur and heats them up real quick. i.e.
if it is 60 and sunny, dogs will heat up in less than two hrs, if it is 60 and cloudy, I may get 4-5 hrs out of each.

Also, when reading the papers- CH is for champion- that is - SHOW CHAMPION. These dogs are usually heavy and stout and won't last long on quail, but will probably do some work. Not usually the best hunting dogs(this is a generality) The dogs that are titled FC, AFC, NFC, NAFC or MH are hunting test and field trial dogs. Very driven, trainable and usually pretty high energy. These dogs usually hunt like the dog mentioned above that won't quit for anything. (another generality).

You may also look into getting a dog that comes from smaller stock, they have better endurance in the field(generally)

Both mine weigh in at 53 and 58 pounds and are full grown, hunt till I quit.

Jim Dobbs has a great book re training with an electric collar, it will take you from day one, all the way to near competition level.

Good luck, your hunting life is about to change forever- a good thing.

Hope I did not step on any toes.

My 10 cents

 

[schmalts]

My last lab was a male. Very easy to train, smart,a hunting maniac, and gentle. There is one thing other guys left out.
One thing to do is pick a pup from the litter well. Take a bird wing with you and toss it in the pen to see how the pups react to it. Look for one that seems very interested in the smell of it and wants to play with it. Do this two different times to make sure the pups have a chance to be all wide awake.
Drummond, that saddest thing i seen at my friends training/hunt club is when someone brings a 4-8 month old pup for some live bird training and this happens. They toss a pigeon or quail down with a broken wing for the pup to chase around and the dog goes up and sniffs the bird, and walks away. The dog wasnt "birdy" and there is not much cure for it. Find out before you get a pup if its "birdy" or not. You wont see the kind of drive in a 6-8 week old of course but you will tell if the little guy likes what he see's and smells. A great hunter doesnt need to be a certian sex, but has to have the drive.

 

[DR_DEATH]

Huntsonora,

Let me start off by saying that I like labs they're great for retreiving ducks and geese in cold climates. If that is what you are planning on doing. Go for it. Buy the Lab.
If you are going to hunt quail and other upland game. I wouldn't get a lab the Arizona heat will take some of the drive out and you will have to be very careful of heat stroke.

If it's upland game you want take a look at a Vizsla, GSP or other pointing breed. They will retreive in water and land and are great house dogs as well if that is what you want them to be.
As with all breeds their are hunting dogs and show dog breeders. Make sure you do your homework as mentioned above and write down what are you hunting and what you want in a dog. This is what helped me to choose between the 2 breeds a few years ago.

Do you want this.....

Or This........

ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHATS BEST FOR YOU

Good Hunting......

 

[kingfish]

Drum, I currently have my third black lab and she's my first female. From my expirience females are way easier to train. My female is without a doubt the smartest dog I have ever had. Bloodlines is everthing....Make sure the breeder can show you papers on the mother and father to prove the dogs bloodlines..Also make sure he will gaurantee eyes and hips...

 

[OSOK]

Kingfish,

Thanks fore reminding me!!!

Drumm,

The other "HUUUUGE" benefit w/ the German Shorthairs and such, is that they don't have the hip displazia (sp), problems, as do the Labs. IMO, the popularity of the Lab hasn't done any favors fore the breed.

There's nothing sweeter in this world than watching your dog go on a dead stone solid point!!!

 

[ozstriker22]

Since I've got all of your dog guys captive...

What do you think about German Weimarieners(sp)... My neighbor had one of those dogs growing up and I really like them... I just don't know how they'll do for mostly upland game with a small amount of duck.

 

[BigPig]

I've had a German Shorthair female, a chocolate lab female, and a black lab male.

Here are my conclusions. The shorthair was crazier than hell and loved to tear stuff up. Not the brightest beacon in the harbor either. But she hunted like hell and lived to be 18. Crazy dogs live longer, IMO. She was just a terror around the house.

The chocolate lab female was the easiest to train by far. But she lacked hard core desire. She would do fine as long as there was fresh scent. But lose the birds and she would get bored quickly. She was a dream around the house.

The black lab male is my absolute favoite. He is crazy as hell but knows when he needs to behave. He does require a firm hand but once in the field he is all business. He took very little training. I just had to whistle break him to stay close. The best thing about this dog is I have never seen such intense desire. I have hunted this dog to the point where all 4 pads were bleeding, he had cactus quills in his face, hadn't seen a bird all day, it was 80 deg. out, and he wasn't slowing down one bit. I'd put him up against any pointer. When he gets home he crashes but he'll be ready to go the next day. His retrieving instict is the best I have ever seen. One time I was shooting my muzzleloader at a chunk of firewood at our cabin. I had Buck inside. Right after the first shot (he was watching through the window) he broke through the window screen, ran right to the log (about 14" around and 14" long) and drug it back to me. He even tried to retrieve my 3' sq. archery target once he figured out what I was shooting at. Long story short, you just can't beat a male lab, IMHO. They may take a bit more discipline and tolerance (not as much as a shorthair) but their increased desire and eagerness to please more than makes up for it.

 

[woodruffhunter]

zDrummond:

Of all the dogs I have hunted with which are as follows: Vizla, Lab, German Shorthair, and the Deutch Drathaar; the Drathaar is the the best all around dog I have hunted with (for pheasants and Geese/Ducks).

Check this website for some more info. http://www.vdd-gna.org/

I was skeptical at first but for all around hunting, in my opinion, they can't be beat. I can give you the number of a breeder/trainer of these dogs if you are interested.

But if you are looking for the best all around family dog I would stick with the lab.

Jason

 

[SpotNStalk]

Hey Kingfish I are you a Washingtonian? The reason I ask is that I live in Washington and am really wanting to get a female black lab. I have a buddy who has a really good male black lab that is just the type of dog I like both in size and temperment (except I want a female). He said I could use his dog for for stud if I could find someone with a quality female lab that is hip and eye certified. I was wondering if we might talk about where you got your lab whether or not she is spayed or if you plan on having her bred. You can send me a private e-mail if you prefer.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[kingfish]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-21-03 AT 02:11PM (MST)[p]spotNstalk,
My female is spayed..I didn't want to deal with a female in heat while I was hunting and wasn't interested in pups. My vet also told me that if I have her spayed just before her first cycle it would vertually eliminate a certain cancer that is pretty common in female labs...She would have been a great female to breed because she is such a great dog and hunter.
Her grandmother was a show champion and her grandfather was a field champion...Bloodlines are everything...Oh yeah, I live in Bothell ....

 

[nk]

check your inbox
nk

 

[2_Point]

I think many have covered the info well. I would add a few things.

My opinion on the Male/Female question is get a male. Nothing worse than keeping a dog all year long only to have her come in heat the day before the season. Of the 8 bird dogs I've owned, the males on aver age have hunted harder and have been easier to train.

If I was only going to use the dog to hunt upland birds and I could spend 2-3 days a week for at least half the year I would go with a Shorthair. But for me, they require way to much "Upkeep" and way to high strung if they are not worked in a consistent manner.

Weirimers (sp?) are way too nuts for me even if I could work them all the time.

I really like Irsh Setters and I think that you can not beat a good Irish if you can find a line that hasn't been dummied down by show breeding.

I have a white lab male that is both a great duck dog and an awesome upland dog. He is smart, obeys, and works hard. That is all I can ask for. And he isn't hyper for the first hour, just consistently "nose-to-the-ground" for hours. He is also a great pet for my boys. Very relaxed and friendly.

Good Luck finding a good one, it might take a few trys.

 

[SpotNStalk]

Thanks for responding Kingfish. If you know of or hear of anyone in your neck of the woods that has a female they want to have a litter, let me know. I'm from the Eastside of the state originally but have been living in Edmonds/Lynnwood for the past 2 1/2 years.

 

[muleyqueen]

O.K., listen up! Do yourself and check the viszla before buying the lab. No matter what you choice, lab vs. viszla, male vs. female, HAVE YOUR DOG SPAYED OR NEUTERED. It is sooooooooo important for the long term health of your dog. It virtually eliminates the predisposition for certain kinds of cancer (male or female). If your going to spend money on the dog, training, food, and the like ... better spend the money on good quality vaccines, spaying or neutering, and heartworm prevention (for mosquito infested areas). If you have more questions please feel free to contact me. Your local vet, Brandy.

 

[1BigDeer]

Hi Drummond - I've had lots of labs, and one German Shorthaired Pointer. Now I the best of both worlds and a once-in-a-lifetime dog. She is a yellow female Pointing Lab. I waited almost two years for the dog I wanted from a great breeder with a great program and great references. This dog has made me look like a pro at every turn from 8 weeks old. The yellow dogs blend in great with dead vegatation when you are waterfowl hunting too! I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Hope you find what you are looking for. Nothing gives me more joy than working with my dog! Maybe a muley hunt in Old Mexico!!!

Dave

 

[1BigDeer]

Hi Drummond - I've had lots of labs, and one German Shorthaired Pointer. Now I the best of both worlds and a once-in-a-lifetime dog. She is a yellow female Pointing Lab. I waited almost two years for the dog I wanted from a great breeder with a great program and great references. This dog has made me look like a pro at every turn from 8 weeks old. The yellow dogs blend in great with dead vegatation when you are waterfowl hunting too! I would be happy to answer any questions you may have. Hope you find what you are looking for. Nothing gives me more joy than working with my dog! Maybe a muley hunt in Old Mexico!!!

Dave

 

[huntsonora]

Guys, thank you all very much for all of your input. I will be heading down to Hobbs NM to look at the parents the first week of Dec. I think I will hold out for a female due to the lack of time I will have to properly train/work with the dog. My wife has her heart set on a Lab and my daughter wants a puppy so bad but I think that we will wait for a yellow female. We hope to make a move to AZ and the point was raised about the extreme heat for a black dog and that makes all the sense in the world to me. I will keep everyone updated.

Drummond

 

[kilbuc]

You will never regrete getting a lab. Not only will you have a good hunting dog, but also a great companion and your daughter will love it.

"God made the world round so Labrador retreivers wouldn't fall off the edge."

from the "Heartland of Wyoming"

 

[RACKMASTER]

Get a lab with great blood line! males hunt harder! I like males for that reason. Great blood lines cost alot more but you do not have to work so long training them, keep a way from professional trainers had two buddy that have had horror story about they'er dogs after the fact! maybe just the dogs to be fair to the professional trainer out their! why use them if you don't have too! I have to males and only hunt state refuges one is 9 and a chocolate!stubburn but never lost a duck,goose inthe thickest crap, the other is black and 2yrs old and a retreaving fool with drive I never seen from another dog any dog! endless energy great hunters! two so differant from each other had to keep an eye on the old man because he likes to scrape with other dogs,yet hes fine with my hunting buddys chessy who is also a d1ck to other males dogs but Bart my younger black kick both of their a$$es and is much smaller but very very smart.
the chocolate I paid 350 for and the black I paid 1000. the black is the smartest,easyest and best temperment I have everseen in a Lab. The whole litter was very highly sought after
I was in the right place at the right time! love them both.

 

[tshuntin]

Sounds like to start you are thinking a lab not all these other breeds. I want to clear one thing up. It was stated that Short hairs don't get hip dislaysia. ALL large dogs can get hip problems. That is why they certufy agaisnt it. Go to offa.org and do a search on GSP's.

Anyway, back to the subject. I believe that females are a little easier to train. Males can have a little more drive and can be a little more hard headed. That is a BIG GENERALIZATION though. I have had and seen exceptions to both of those comments. I would highly recommend getting a pup out of good hunt test or field trial stock. I do believe paper says a lot. I have had dogs with very weak pedigrees and I have had dogs with strong pedigrees. The ones better on paper have bee a ton easier to train. Doesn't mean the others have not become good hunters. But, the way I look at it -- this pup is going to be a member of your family for the next 10-15 years. Why not do your homework and get the best possible prospectyou can get? Why not do what you can do to increase your chances of success? Health clearances are a MUST!! (with any breed).

As far as labs not cutting it for upland game. I just spent a few days in S.& N. Dakota pheasant hunting. We shot over 150 birds in 3 days. More birds were shot over and retrieved by my two labs than the three shorthairs put together. The short-hairs all had more pheasant experience than my dogs too. Trust me they can cut it!!!!

If you need help finding a pup email me [email protected] or a good place to look is the classifieds at www.working-retriever.com Good Luck! Travis

 

[Elmacho]

Huntsonora-

If you are thinking of a yellow.........look for good papers with alot of FC, AFC. NAFC, NFC or MH designations in the backround. Dogs with this type of pedigree usually have been bred by professionals who are very very serious about the best hunting dogs possible. These dogs are usually a little smaller and leaner than some others and are more willing to work with you in training. In yellow dog look for dark pigment- the nose, eyes, skin should be as dark a possible- like humans- of they are fais pigmented, skin may be effected by sun exposure ie sun cancer.(side note- more black dogs win hunting contests than any other- hands down) but the AZ sun and heat are an issue and there are some great yellows out there. If you are going to wait a year or so I have a friend that breads some of the best yellows around- send me a private e-mail

Good luck out there

 

[dryflyelk]

I have a male lab now, around 2 years old. With a new baby and a very busy life, poor Sampson is not getting the attention he deserves or needs. I have given him lots of hunting training and he would make a great duck dog for anyone. I will give him up for free if anyone will take him--I would rather not see him go to waste. He has great lines. If anyone is interested, email me at [email protected]

 

[Negissimo]

I don't have any input as far as male of female, but the male black lab we have is the hardest hunting, best dog I've personally been around! He's been awesome from day one, getting a little grumpy in his old age though!

 

[MichaelJ]

From reading this, by far the most popular dog here is a lab. However, does anybody have a Brittany? I've heard that they're great family dogs, and are really loyal and hard hunting. Any input on them? One of my OLD middle school teachers had a Brittany and loved him. Heard many other great things also. They're small, and make great family dogs as well. I'm wanting to get a dog in the next couple years so I want some input also.

Michael~All Gods creatures welcome, right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.

 

[woodruffhunter]

I had a Brittney and it was the wildest dog I ever owned. However, it never tired of hunting and was a great dog to own.

See my previous post for what I believe, in my opinion, is the best hunting breed you can get.

Jason

 

[mengland]

I agree some times but not all the time. We have a yellow female that came from a very stout hunting background. I hunted behind the parents of the dog many times, and the damn dog I got from one of the litters is now simply my nieces best friend. She has papers and they do not have any incredible bloodlines, not even amatuer champion bloodlines. This dogs mom and dad will go all day everyday until they can no longer walk. The thing about this is every dog in that litter that I know of has not turned out worth one penny for hunting. I had the owner of the mom and dad help with training my dog and he could not figure out what was wrong with her. The trainer changed bloodlines and I got a dog with from the first litter and this dog has champions all over his papers and his parents do not even hunt. The owner was very surprised since he did not use the parents to hunt on how my dog turned out. His parents do not hunt but he is the absolute best dog I have ever had, and the litter I just had a year ago outof him is doing very well.