Land Transfer Question
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Zeke
Long Time Member
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- 10,605
Is there a proposed bill to transfer the Federal public land to the States? Please attach the link if you have one.
I have not heard of one so I don't have a clue if there's a provision to prevent the State from selling the land. You've got to think the States want the land so they can sell it whenever they need a little extra money for those really important ENTITLEMENTS,...instead of tightening their belt like the rest of us do.
Zeke
I have not heard of one so I don't have a clue if there's a provision to prevent the State from selling the land. You've got to think the States want the land so they can sell it whenever they need a little extra money for those really important ENTITLEMENTS,...instead of tightening their belt like the rest of us do.
Zeke
grizzly
Long Time Member
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- 5,629
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16 AT 03:20PM (MST)[p]The "UTAH TRANSFER OF PUBLIC LANDS ACT" not only allows the selling of public land, the Legislature has already set up the bank account to hold the money. They also promise to return the majority of those proceeds to the Feds upon Closing since the State is not seeking the revenue from selling the land, but the ongoing property tax from the public land being turned private.
The state education system is funded by property taxes which is why the Land Grab proponents continually say the land grab is good for schools. If the land is kept public, it will not produce property tax and will not benefit schools. The Republicans can't have it both ways. If it is good for education, then by default it will not remain public. Also, the Feds currently pay the counties each year money known as Payment In Lieu Of Taxes, which is funding meant to compensate counties for having public land within their borders... this PILT money will obviously go away.
I personally asked Mike Noel, the sponsor of the UTAH TRANSFER OF PUBLIC LANDS ACT, to include a clause that lands not be sold and he would not agree. The State-sponsored study specifically states that land MUST be sold to private individuals to balance the budget and that the State will still not ever recover the initial start-up costs of the public land takeover.
Also, the State of Utah is Constitutionally-required to have a balanced budget every year. This means that as public lands need to be managed and expenses rise, or a bad fire year costs hundreds of millions of dollars, or natural resource prices fall reducing revenue, or any other future decline in funding... the state is required to raise money that year or dip into its reserves. Eventually the state must make more money and this revenue-increase must be done by selling public land or a tax-increase (see the Amazon deal from this week that raises taxes by $200 Million). How long before tax increases no longer work and they must sell public land? I think not long.
Grizzly
The state education system is funded by property taxes which is why the Land Grab proponents continually say the land grab is good for schools. If the land is kept public, it will not produce property tax and will not benefit schools. The Republicans can't have it both ways. If it is good for education, then by default it will not remain public. Also, the Feds currently pay the counties each year money known as Payment In Lieu Of Taxes, which is funding meant to compensate counties for having public land within their borders... this PILT money will obviously go away.
I personally asked Mike Noel, the sponsor of the UTAH TRANSFER OF PUBLIC LANDS ACT, to include a clause that lands not be sold and he would not agree. The State-sponsored study specifically states that land MUST be sold to private individuals to balance the budget and that the State will still not ever recover the initial start-up costs of the public land takeover.
Also, the State of Utah is Constitutionally-required to have a balanced budget every year. This means that as public lands need to be managed and expenses rise, or a bad fire year costs hundreds of millions of dollars, or natural resource prices fall reducing revenue, or any other future decline in funding... the state is required to raise money that year or dip into its reserves. Eventually the state must make more money and this revenue-increase must be done by selling public land or a tax-increase (see the Amazon deal from this week that raises taxes by $200 Million). How long before tax increases no longer work and they must sell public land? I think not long.
Grizzly
Stonefly
Very Active Member
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- 1,195
Zeke, dont you know yet, that when our State bends you over,its always... "for the children" or its a great " job creator. (Whispering) its not to line the pockets of the ken ivory types.. everyone is scared shiitless our leadership will sell off the land, if the state gets it., But they keep electing the same jokers and bitcch about the Feds that are for the transfer. If our polititions here in UTAH werent so eager to chop it up and sell it off.(IF) they could be trusted ,then the question would be how in the world do we pay for managing the land.... well its so expensive we NEED to sell it off OR use money that would have went to help the children and creat Jobs. If they need money TAX diapers and icecream and leave the public land alone
grizzly
Long Time Member
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- 5,629
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16 AT 06:00PM (MST)[p]>thanks for the info, Grizzly. What
>can be done to fight
>it in light of the
>new administration?
Quit letting Republicans treat us like crap and re-electing them anyway.
It needs to be beat at the state/local levels. They're the ones who are pushing the agenda.
Also, join Backcountry Hunters & Anglers and Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. They're leading the charge to protect public lands.
Grizzly
>can be done to fight
>it in light of the
>new administration?
Quit letting Republicans treat us like crap and re-electing them anyway.
It needs to be beat at the state/local levels. They're the ones who are pushing the agenda.
Also, join Backcountry Hunters & Anglers and Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. They're leading the charge to protect public lands.
Grizzly
Zeke
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 10,605
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16 AT 06:49PM (MST)[p]> Zeke, dont you know yet,
>that when our State bends
>you over,its always... "for the
>children" or its a great
>" job creator. (Whispering) its
>not to line the pockets
>of the ken ivory types..
>everyone is scared shiitless our
>leadership will sell off the
>land, if the state gets
>it., But they keep electing
>the same jokers and bitcch
>about the Feds that are
>for the transfer. If our
>polititions here in UTAH werent
>so eager to chop it
>up and sell it off.(IF)
>they could be trusted ,then
>the question would be how
>in the world do we
>pay for managing the land....
>well its so expensive we
>NEED to sell it off
>OR use money that would
>have went to help the
>children and creat Jobs. If
>they need money TAX diapers
>and icecream and leave the
>public land alone
+1
The way I understand it, the State is the one clammoring for control but there's no Federal bill concerning this.
I have no doubt that our land will be sold for all those "good reasons" if the State gets their Hands on it.
The fight is underway!
Zeke
>that when our State bends
>you over,its always... "for the
>children" or its a great
>" job creator. (Whispering) its
>not to line the pockets
>of the ken ivory types..
>everyone is scared shiitless our
>leadership will sell off the
>land, if the state gets
>it., But they keep electing
>the same jokers and bitcch
>about the Feds that are
>for the transfer. If our
>polititions here in UTAH werent
>so eager to chop it
>up and sell it off.(IF)
>they could be trusted ,then
>the question would be how
>in the world do we
>pay for managing the land....
>well its so expensive we
>NEED to sell it off
>OR use money that would
>have went to help the
>children and creat Jobs. If
>they need money TAX diapers
>and icecream and leave the
>public land alone
+1
The way I understand it, the State is the one clammoring for control but there's no Federal bill concerning this.
I have no doubt that our land will be sold for all those "good reasons" if the State gets their Hands on it.
The fight is underway!
Zeke
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16 AT 06:56PM (MST)[p]Awe get ready to see the worst. Trump is liar. And to all those who voted for him, you knew that in your heart. He can still pull the wool over many of your eyes with a Facebook post saying he's going to honor Roosevelts legacy and then 2 days later chooses someone to put in charge of it who has spent their political career tearing it down. She's undermined the LWCF, the antiquities act, and voted to sell millions of acres of public land to private interest(not transfer to the states, SELL it). Time for people to start criticizing Trump accurately rather than ignore his faults because he's your guy. It's a terrible pick, his EPA pick is also terrible for wildlife and their habitat, and his agriculture appointee will be bad too. He put Lummis from Wyoming on the transition team for the BLM and USFWS, who has also voted against public lands. Good job, this guys a real champion of sportsmen and public land.....Believe me.
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,878
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16
>AT 06:00?PM (MST)
>
>>thanks for the info, Grizzly. What
>>can be done to fight
>>it in light of the
>>new administration?
>
>Quit letting Republicans treat us like
>crap and re-electing them anyway.
While I Do Agree We have some GREEDY Republicans!
Not All of them are Bad!
>
>
>It needs to be beat at
>the state/local levels. They're the
>ones who are pushing the
>agenda.
>
>Also, join Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
>and Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership.
>They're leading the charge to
>protect public lands.
>
>Grizzly
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
>AT 06:00?PM (MST)
>
>>thanks for the info, Grizzly. What
>>can be done to fight
>>it in light of the
>>new administration?
>
>Quit letting Republicans treat us like
>crap and re-electing them anyway.
While I Do Agree We have some GREEDY Republicans!
Not All of them are Bad!
>
>
>It needs to be beat at
>the state/local levels. They're the
>ones who are pushing the
>agenda.
>
>Also, join Backcountry Hunters & Anglers
>and Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership.
>They're leading the charge to
>protect public lands.
>
>Grizzly
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,629
LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16 AT 10:43PM (MST)[p]
Elkassassin, though not all Republicans are greedy (I voted for Huntsman Jr, after all), all land grab fraudsters ARE Republican.
The land grab is also part of the official Republican platform. It's undeniable who the bad guy is on this particular issue.
Grizzly
Elkassassin, though not all Republicans are greedy (I voted for Huntsman Jr, after all), all land grab fraudsters ARE Republican.
The land grab is also part of the official Republican platform. It's undeniable who the bad guy is on this particular issue.
Grizzly
elkassassin
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 37,878
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-09-16
>AT 10:43?PM (MST)
>
>
>Elkassassin, though not all Republicans are
>greedy (I voted for Huntsman
>Jr, after all), all land
>grab fraudsters ARE Republican.
>
>The land grab is also part
>of the official Republican platform.
>It's undeniable who the bad
>guy is on this particular
>issue.
>
>Grizzly
I Surely Won't Argue with you on knowing who the Bad Guy is!
Just Show's We are getting out-numbered by the other Type of People just like what happened in Colorado many years ago!
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
>AT 10:43?PM (MST)
>
>
>Elkassassin, though not all Republicans are
>greedy (I voted for Huntsman
>Jr, after all), all land
>grab fraudsters ARE Republican.
>
>The land grab is also part
>of the official Republican platform.
>It's undeniable who the bad
>guy is on this particular
>issue.
>
>Grizzly
I Surely Won't Argue with you on knowing who the Bad Guy is!
Just Show's We are getting out-numbered by the other Type of People just like what happened in Colorado many years ago!
[font color="blue"]She put a Big F.U. in My Future,Ya She's got a
way with Words[/font]
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,629
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=42997759&ni...critic-mike-noel-wants-to-lead-federal-agency
Don Peay endorses Mike Noel to head BLM. Mike Noel wants says BLM should sell public lands that are "uneconomic".
That's the problem with the land-grab Republican fraudsters. Public access generates no money so they think the land is worthless and should be sold. SFW is right in there with them, closing stream access and endorsing anti-hunting land grabbers.
Compare SFW to RMEF, BHA, TRCP, B&C, etc... that have all come out to say the land grab is bad for hunting and you'll know who your real friends are and who's just scratching the back of the politicians cutting their welfare checks.
Grizzly
Don Peay endorses Mike Noel to head BLM. Mike Noel wants says BLM should sell public lands that are "uneconomic".
That's the problem with the land-grab Republican fraudsters. Public access generates no money so they think the land is worthless and should be sold. SFW is right in there with them, closing stream access and endorsing anti-hunting land grabbers.
Compare SFW to RMEF, BHA, TRCP, B&C, etc... that have all come out to say the land grab is bad for hunting and you'll know who your real friends are and who's just scratching the back of the politicians cutting their welfare checks.
Grizzly
Jason Chaffetz is all over it. HR621
Sell off 3.3 million acres
https://wilderness.org/blog/their-plan-working-new-bill-would-sell-3-million-acres-public-lands
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
Sell off 3.3 million acres
https://wilderness.org/blog/their-plan-working-new-bill-would-sell-3-million-acres-public-lands
"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt
grizzly
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,629
From Hunt Expo Website... "Expo organizers (SFW and MDF) spend the remaining 70 percent on policies, programs, projects and personnel..."
Its entirely reasonable to assume (considering SFW is the only group to not oppose the land grab, has had Chapters officially endorse the land grab, their position on closing public stream access, and Peay endorsing Mike Noel for BLM head) that the remaining 70% of Expo funds could go to support the land grab.
Grizzly
Its entirely reasonable to assume (considering SFW is the only group to not oppose the land grab, has had Chapters officially endorse the land grab, their position on closing public stream access, and Peay endorsing Mike Noel for BLM head) that the remaining 70% of Expo funds could go to support the land grab.
Grizzly
