Leavitt and the SFW

H

HoundDawg

Guest
So I got my SFW magazine in the mail the other day and was reading through it. Ya, I'm actually a member if you can believe that. ;-)

It had a big article on Gov. Leavitt and all he's done for Utah's hunters, etc...

OK, now let me state upfront that I actually really like Gov. Leavitt. I ran into him once at Sea World in San Diego and thought he was a super nice guy and tolerated BSing with me in front of the Walrus tank.

And while I hate to see him go, isn't this the same guy who wreaked havoc on the DWR not so long ago? :)

How quick we are to forgive and forget in this state. It's kind of funny because the magazine mentioned how 10 years ago Utah's big game was in the toilet and now we are king of the world.

I noticed the magazine failed to mention that back in the rough years Gov. Leavitt's family introduced whirling disease into Utah, and when the DWR came down on them he went on a rampage and cleaned house, basically getting rid of anyone and everyone that knew anything about wildlife management. And then made some National Guard guy the head of the DWR. He was so forgettable I can't even remember his name right now. Those were truly the darkest years of hunting in my lifetime.

How quick we are to forget he was the captain of the ship back then as well. But I believe he has been a friend to hunters these past few years and will be missed. There are probably many who don't like him but I liked him as Governor.

It's a good thing we are quick to forgive and forget however cuz he sure wasn't our friend a few years back.

I also noticed my name wasn't anywhere on the list of Honorary SFW Board members. After all that me and Fishon have been through together and this is the thanks I get. ;-)

-Dawg
 
He?s an idiot! En-libra? What the hell does that mean? Creating balance? The desires of hunters and anglers never figured into his balancing act?he moved to screw them at every turn. The irony of this is that someone who could give a flying **** about the environment is in charge of the EPA---but really what else would you expect from the Bush administration.
 
Im with you on this one Dawg.....overall I think Leavitt did a pretty good job as governor. I think he's been a pretty decent ally to the hunting community over the last few years!!! I just hope that Olene Walker will be a ally to our causes.


Bush Basher;
Two words for you: "Get Bent"!!! I'd take the Bush administration over Clinton and his "cigar smokin" interns any day of the week. Its nice to see a president who actually walks the walk and talks the talk. I dont care if people disagree with some of things he's done, but in my opinion, he's showed the rest of the world, that the US isnt afraid to take on our enemies.....with their support or not.

Just rememeber "Freedom isnt free"
 
HoundDawg, you have disappointed me greatly! You are a member?? How can you support the decimation of the lion population in the name of over priced range maggots?

And Dawg. Why do you donate to provide hunting trips with the Mailman? Hell, we are only po' folk. Regular ol' Joe Schmoes.

HoundDawg, don't believe the rantings you read. Don't be fooled my friend. The promise was our deer herds will be "just like Wyoming's." I remember it just like yesterday. Then, when the draw and future cuts in tags were brought about they said, "our deer herds are fine, we just need to better divide the pie." We are not on top of the world like some would like you to believe. We are still in the toilet!

Dawg, I am here for you.

Tuff: I agree. Someone had to step up and clean up the terrorist mess left ignored by others.
 
KTC,

I am even more disappointed in you... that you actually believe I gave one nickel of my money to a group whose soul purpose is to kill all the lions so the dumbest game animal alive can thrive on Timp so Mail and a few select rich guys can hunt them.

That Cache valley lowlife hound dogger Kevin paid my yearly dues and signed me up as a joke!! :)

I'm a typical hound dogger, distrusting of anyone wearing a suit and especially anyone claiming that they are trying to help me out, just as soon as I write them a check.

Besides, what the hell do any of these people know? It's not like they are out on public land with us trying to kill a nice buck. Bet you didn't run into any of those boys up AF canyon on the deer hunt huh?

Nope, cuz they were hunting the Alton, or the Henry's or maybe Ensign. Or chasing elk down on the Pahvant. Let Karl and his boys go hunt Hobble Creek or AF canyon for a couple of years and then come talk to me about donating some money.

I'm a dirt poor guy trying to feed a couple of kids and pack of smelly hounds. I ain't giving any money to a guy in a suit that is on his way sheep hunting to British Columbia with Karl Malone.

You think I'm gonna donate money so they can turn around and give it to some dipshit wannabee hound guy from Springville for a bounty cuz he killed a female lion with a kitten up Hobble Creek? So the lion doesn't kill that nice ram they are baby sitting up on Timp until Malone can break away from LA long enough to come up and shoot it, after they take the tracking collar and halter off it of course. :)

Amigo, if you think it was my money that got me into the group, than I'm disappointed in you my friend!! And if you think for a minute I'm dumb enough to believe ANYONE is looking out for my interests in the world of wildlife, then you have severely misjudged me my friend!! ;-)

You're just trying to incite me ain't ya buddy?!! Those groups just ain't for me. I'm too busy trying to donate to my daughters college funds!! That and trying to become a famous squirrel hunter!! Deer and elk or sheep? Hah!! Squirrels is where the thrill is at my friend! ;-)

-Dawg
 
That's the problem with myopic morons like yourself, Tuffbuck, you think criticism of the Bushies is the same as support for Clintonites. You?ll notice in my post I didn't mention a single word about Clinton. If the only way you can defend Bush is to bash Clinton than how good can Bush really be? From my perspective Bush is perhaps the worst president since Nixon. He clearly cares about one group?those who give him money?a.k.a. ?the ultra rich?. His environmental policy (if you can consciously call total ignorance a ?policy?) is scandalous. If Bush and his cronies had their way public land would cease to exist, it would be sold to the highest bidder and hunters and anglers could kiss his ass. It amazes me how many people give Bush a free ride simply because he has the support of the NRA. That doesn't mean he cares about the outdoors or outdoorsman?an objective examination of his record indicates he doesn't care. Land is only valuable based on what you can extract from it or build on it. Hunting and fishing take a backseat to development. Sportsman doesn't pay the re-election bills?big multi-national corporations do. The freedom isn't free statement is so full of ignorance that I'll refrain from comment.
 
Sheeeeeeeeeez Dawg!!!!!!!!!!!!......I am so relieved!!!!!!! There for a minute I thought you had crossed over to the other side!!!!!!!!!!

You got me pegged buddy.......I was trying my darnedest to incite you. As I can now see, my attempt was a complete failure.

Nope. No sightings of Mail and company on public land here. However, my binocs were in constant lookout for THEIR sheep and the well-being of the herd though!

Are you trying to incite me? Damn. I have lived here all my life and I am still trying to figure out why Mail can go hunt the Pahvant year after year and I am still coming up empty handed. Hell, maybe those sheep guys can manipulate a few more premium elk tags away from the public in the name of sheep over population! The inner circle informed me that one sheep is valued at 50k.

At one point in time I was within a knatsass of joining. Cooler heads prevailed and I resisted the temptation to TRY and rub elbows with those looking out for myself, and those like me.

Lets go burn horse fat on public land controlled by those who wear suits and play ball while we still can. Those smelly hounds and horses might disrupt the routine of the maggots and they will have to shut down the Wasatch front like Bear Top. Don't think for one minute it wasn't talked about either. Heard it right from the middle of the inner sheep circle. I was even told "enjoy it while you can." Hows that for a swift kick in theass!!! Shut down my land to deer hunting, decimate the lions and lion hunting, and create a peaceful tranquility for all sheep to enjoy! It upsets me and I don't even have a hound dog!

I really enjoyed the attempt to open up deer hunting on Antelope Island. It was so the public could have an opportunity to hunt deer on the Island. Ya right. It was an attempt to crack open the door so the California bighorns could be harvested when the time was right without all of the red tape.

Have a good day Dawg! I can rest easy now! I am looking forward to spending some time with you Dawg. You are my kind of guy. Hurray for me and my own and to hell with everyone else. Especially those who are trying to swindle me out of my hard earned cash!!!!!!!! In the name of sheep none the less. Kill a sheep and save a lion?????
 
Oh great, another mis-informed, conspiracy driven, pansy a$$ liberal hippie, that dosent have the balls to register its name.
I was wondering how long it would take for this shei?e kopf to point the cowardly finger of ignorance. Tuffbuck, pay no attention to this douche, it is very apparent that it has a vaginized and extremely loose grip on reality. It must have been raised by a pack of millitant, mogoloid lesbos. Haaahaaaaa... what a d!ck!
Ok, enough fun for now...
Eric
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Polarbear, Moosie, and HoundDawg. Never get in a war of words with these guys. Too funny and too quick witted for me.....:)
 
Thanks Polarbear....Im not too stressed over what the bushbasher says....too funny though
 
Back to the subject. Leavitt is a lying douche bag. He flat out told us on his first bid for re-election that he believed in term limits and that he would never serve more than two terms. How quickly he forgot. As for his outs with the fish and game in the past, according to one retired conservation officer Gary Mckell, Leavitt held a grudge against the division because he (mike) was once arrested for poaching long before he was governor. And as an in your face to the fish and game when he was first elected governor he made some of the C.O's serve security duty at his inauguration. At least that is how Gary tells it.
 
Polarbear,

Vaganized, lesbo??? I really expected more from a deep thinker like yourself, exactly where did you come up with such useful words? My guess is that you found them in the I-am-an-illiturate-fourth-grade-drop-out-ditch-digging-trailer-living-knuckledragging-slope-headed-twit dictionary. I also noticed the word ?mogoloid? in your post, I think you meant ?mongoloid,? I am somewhat disappointed that you muffed this one, with the living model you see everyday in the mirror I would think this is one you would have memorized by now.
 
In the blue corner, lets introduce Polar "I ain't puttin' up with this pinhead" Bear. And in the red corner Bush " I have not got any bush in years" Basher.

Now, for those in attendance, and the millions watching around the world, LLLLeetttts get ready to rrrrruuuuuummmmmmmmbbbbbllllllleeeeeeeeee!!!!!!

Polarbear, Vegas has you at 10 to 1 odds. Kick some ass buddy!!
 
Just goes to show how heated this politics stuff is. I set my self up for fifty guys to just attack me and call me vile names because I spoke ill of the SFW Gods of wildlife....

And no one even notices cuz a liberal shows up and attacks Bush. Whew!! I was regretting that post knowing that all the SFW loyalists were going to tear me to pieces.

Maybe I need to look into this politics business a bit more, it can sure be enjoyable!!

I'm not sure if I belong to a party or not but I sure enjoy watching my inlaws and their family tear into each other. Some of them are staunch Democrats and the other half used to be but converted over to the Republican party. You should be at Thanksgiving dinner there when Politics comes up.

I still remember with fondness one heated argument one year with two sisters. The one was yelling, "Your father would turn over in his grave if he knew you voted for Ronald Reagan and George Bush."

Then she yelled back, "My dad was a farmer and a cowboy. Don't you dare even suggest that if he were alive he would have voted for Michael Dukakis!!" Even though one was 70 and the other about 63 I was still thinking a Cat fight was coming.

Maybe I need to give this politics stuff a closer look. Hell, I could even form my own party and run Kevin for Governor. Is there a Hound Doggers party?

Bush, Clinton, Nixon, Reagan, Algore Gore... Boring! Hell, I just wish Ross Perot was still around so I could watch Dana Carvey come on the talk shows and do his impression!!!

In my simple mind there is really just Us and Them. I don't mind the "thems" and I guess we need them, but don't come to me in a suit and tie after having lunch with the Gov. or the President and try to tell me you're one of "Us".

Buy me a couple beers at Hawns and then you're one of us. ;-)

-Dawg, Chairman of the Hound Doggers party
 
Dawg,

I just poked through the SFW magazine you spoke of. It was free so I thought I would look at what I was missing. They need to change the name of it. Maybe....Mailman Quarterly? Or, Whats Mail Done for Us Lately??

They ensured us that he will be back. Whew! I was worried for a minute! He is on a two year mission and will be high profile in the new market and the ability to promote the cause.

Any thoughts?
 
Hey BrushWhacker;
You are so freakin' quick to jump all over everyone else and their opinions and even their word usage and spelling..............and then in a post containing a very limited amount of words you cannot even spell "illiterate"

Hop up on your soap box and call people a name you can't even spell, and dish out harsh criticism for a serious personal fault for which you are the "Poster Boy"

Go back to humpin Al Gores dog or his leg or whatever you were doing, and leave the rest of us alone. And the next time you set to callin folks out, check your own spelling before you left click "post message"........

POLAR BEAR... Carry On!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Buchanan for Prez! At least he has the balls to want to seal our Mexican border. Too bad he's not running. Open season on illegals and no bag limit. That's a slogan I would vote for.
 
Whatever happened to Bo Gritz for President? Now there was a guy I could vote for. :)

Guess I'll have to keep going with my write in vote: Claude Dallas Lafayette Jr. for President!!! I'll keep at it until they elect him!!

I got no beef with Leavitt. Don't know really what his record on wildlife will be in the history books. But I do know he sure wasn't helping us much early in his run but he may have turned that around.

As for the Mailman, I got no beef with him either. I hope he gets his ring and I'm sure he's down there promoting our cause as we speak. Probably having a little pow wow with Jack Nicholson, Dyan Cannon, Kobe and Shaq right now telling them how they need to donate to the sheep cause on Nebo and help us rebound these deer herds!!

He must have wildlife on the brain cuz I noticed they lost to the Grizzlies and took 3 OT's to beat a Spurs team without Parker and Duncan... so surely he ain't thinkin' much about basketball. ;-)

And I have no big beef with the SFW, I just like to rattle people's chains out here. But I gotta kick out of your comment about naming the magazine "Mailman Quarterly" cuz that is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I read it. :)

I know they do a lot of good and that Prop 5 passage was huge, but I do have a beef with their name and think it needs to change. It should be something like SFCW "Sportsmen for Fish and Certain Wildlife"...

Cuz you can bet when they finally catch me shooting a ram on Timp in mid July or catch me dumping a 390 bull up Diamond Fork this winter, they are gonna scream for my head on a platter.

But if I poach a couple of lions this winter or shoot a sow with a couple of cubs next spring they'll probably throw a banquet to honor me. :)

But long live the greatest power forward ever and may the rings fall into his lap!! Could care less if he comes back here or not, we'll get to read about him in his Quarterly regardless.

But he was damn good watching for all these years here, I'll give him that!! Stockton to Malone... ah, the memories!!

What is it now, Arroya to Tag?? :-(

-Dawg
 
Stone Thrower,

Thanks so much for pointing-out the misstep in my post. As a taxpayer it is so nice to see that someone from the nimrod association actually took advantage of their free education and learned how to spell (instead of how to make a bong in metal shop). Bravo! You are living proof that McDonalds was mistaken when they replaced all of the numbers and words on their cash registers with pictures. I think you are an inspiration to everyone on this site?keep up the good work! I also agree with you that I was little hard on Polarbear, with his limited intellect he needs someone like you to standup for him.

Thanks.

P.S. I misspelled a word on purpose, just for you?you now what they say practice makes perfect and I have faith that you will be reading at grade-level very soon. Good luck!
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-03 AT 05:06PM (MST)[p]Hey guys, get the net! I think that we have a big sucker on the line! Heeheeeee... BushBasher, keep on posting, it is fun to see someone point a finger at others while at the same time proving yourself as the one who is in need of schooling. Please refer to me as an illiterate idiot who cannot spell and has a limited intellect. If it makes you feel like a man/woman (whatever you are), go right on with it. I would like to print out your comments and post them next to both, and soon to be 2 more, degrees. Oh,.. and yes, I did mean that you seemed to have been vaginized by hippie ill-informed lezbos. You grew up with 2 mothers and no daddy didnt you? Did you get help from them to re-type our replies into spell-check so that you could find our mistakes? Good for you.
Instead of gracing us with your presence, shouldnt you be out hugging trees, trying to stop bulldozers and tanks in the middle east by standing in front of them, solving the big "republican conspiracy", getting married to the same sex as your self, building a bomb shelter to hide in when Bush pushes us into global nuclear war, squatting on a chunk of land before Bush grabs it all up and hands it to the wealthy, or just riding your bike down to your job as an activist or tofu bar cashier?
Keep up the good work! Your moms and our country are proud to have a prodical son such as your self becoming the "champion" of all that is right and fair! Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Oh, and thanks for making us laugh with your self defensive
rhetoric. If you want to be taken seriously, try registering so that you dont appear as such a pansy trying to hide behind anonymity.
Eric

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Life long "vagitarian"
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Oh, by the way, Hounddawg, I am sorry that your post has been sabotaged by some of our off subject b!tch fighting. It does seems that the douche has turned tail and ran.
Eric
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I've have not forgotten or forgiven that Whirling disease introducing A-hole. Because of that Whirling disease thing some down right world class trout fishing near their fish hatchery is gone forever. And hardly anyone will give you permission to access the springs on their property anymore because they think you got whirling disease on your waders or something. I can't beleive the guy is now the head of the EPA. All he cares about is building roads everywhere, industrializing everything,developing everywhere possible and over populating the planet by having as many little rug rats as possible. The only thing he will do at the EPA is be a yes man for big bussiness and development. Screw him!
 
Hey Dawg,

I have been so busy hunting lions that I never had a chance to see you post. Good to hear from you. Let me give you an update on my success.

10-29-03

timp. 4 lions killedd 3 of which kittens all females

10-30-03

timp. only 1 lion killed but it was the last female on the mountain

10-31-03 halloween

timp 1 tom killed, but i was disappointed because he didnt even run he just laid there and let my springer spaniels kill him.( heartless lion)

11-5-03

rock canyon

no lions killed because they are all already dead so instead i killed 14 bobcats, i thought that would make up for 2 lions

11-12-03

nebo

9 lions i shot out of a helicopter, i would of killed more but i am a bad shot.

11-12-03

6 more lions killed on nebo with hand grenades
i couldnt miss.

11-20-03

nebo

2 lions killed , 1 tom 1 female last lions left on the unit.

11-27-03 turkey day

no lions killed, mission accomplished in utah county, zero lions left.

12-1-03

start decimation of lions in rest of the state.


I hope you think i am worth all my money now.
let me know if you have a lion problem somewhere i have extra grenades.

tony
 
Sorry buddy, I won't be drug down that path again. Arguing with you about lions is kind of like beating my 6 year old sister in a 100 yard dash. It's fun as hell and makes me feel good but doesn't really do me a whole lot of good at the end of the day. ;-)

Besides, this is the kinder and gentler me. I'm starting my new years resolutions early and the old me is gone.

No more bashing the DWR and SFW or any other group. The "anti establishment" Dawg is gone. I've seen the light and I'm converted.

I'm gonna pay my money, keep my mouth shut and try to even obey one or two of the game laws. You guys can kill every lion in this state as far as I'm concerned. Better find a different group of hound guys to do it cuz the ones you have enlisted ain't doing a very good job.

But I'm walking the path these days and towing the line. I'm a company man, I'm for a home on the range where the deer and antelope can play, and all that other good stuff!!

I think you are looking to lock horns with the old HoundDawg, but bad news amigo. He's gone and never coming back!! But don't fret cuz you were way overmatched anyway. ;-)

Kill all the lions and bring the sheep back. I'm fine with that and I'll sleep at nights. My biggest concerns these days are getting that crab grass out of my lawn and figuring out why my tomatoes won't ripen. I'm gonna pay my money to soldiers like yourself to fight the good fight and I'm gonna garden and grow daffodils.

Keep after the lions, coyotes and the Anti's. I'm putting my faith in you boys to take care of it. If I ever get tired of gardening and building bird houses for the starving blue jays, I'll come out of retirement and come talk shop with you.

But the old Dawg is dead and gone. You'll have to find another worthy adversary. :) As Dylan says, "I used to care but things have changed."

-New and Improved Dawg
www.thenIsawFishonsFaceandNowI'maBeliever.com
 
Fishon is Tony. Mr SFW, they love to cater to the rich, sell elk tags to the very rich, and refuse to push for greater opportunity for us average Joes. We have elk dieing of old age that most of us will only get ONE chance in our lifetime to hunt.
 
Dawg,

I am glad to see you are toeing the line and minding your business. You can stay out of this, but I am not.

I am not a hound dogger and don't intend to be any time soon. However, Fishon, your arrogant attitude is why I will never donate to SFW and the "cause." Has the big boss read your silly remarks?

Do you think your remarks about killing lions is funny? Or, are you just being a smartass? What gives you, SFW the right to control the wildlife population and hunting opportunities of some hunters on PUBLIC ground? I have nothing against sheep or their presence, but it pisses me off when one group, a group with $, can control what happens on ground we all own.

Your remarks about killing dozens of lions is exactly the reason many people share the same attitude about sheep. Oh, there is one, kill it. Is turn about fair play?

While some of us have gone a life time without even having one chance to hunt elk in the great state of Utah. SFW is pimping off elk tags in the name of sheep introduction. I guess this is one of the blessings that has been provided that I fail to recognize.

I still would like to know when "our deer herd is going to be like Wyoming's." If SFW wants to provide for greater opportunity, why not start with the greatest resource we have, the deer? After all, that was the promise when funds were being solicited from the hunting population here.
 
Dawg,

I really didn't believe it when I heard you turned over a new leaf,I am still reserving judgement until i can further investigate. But it is still nice hearing from you.

As far as ktc and deerlove go i cant understand why you would judge me and accuse me of arrogance when 1st of all I was talking to the dawg and 2nd of all you have know idea what i stand for. I am sure that if either of you spent a little bit of time looking into me or sfw and came to the source with your concerns I could clear up your misunderstanding of my self and sfw. I am not mad or pissed at any of you i just wish some of you wouldnt judge my book until you read it. I am not on here tooting my horn or anything else I am here telling you that i am average joe and i am trying to get more opportunity for people like me. Do me a favor and get to know me and then pass judgement on me, after all I am not passing judgement on either of you.

tony abbott
 
C'mon Fishon,

Don't be skeptical and reserve judgment on me. That was the old Dawg. Hey, I'm with you... I didn't really like him either.

He was crass, boorish, obnoxious, a loud mouthed braggart, profane, vulgar, nasty, lazy, dishonest, loathsome, whoremongerous, dirty, conceited and ill tempered...

Boy, I'd better stop. The way I'm showering the old Dawg with all these compliments, no one will believe I didn't like him.

For behold Fishon, as I walked the trail of the puma one day a voice did call out to me over my cell phone and saith, "HoundDawg, why persecutest thou the DWR and SFW? The day of reckoning is at hand and thou shalt surely be smitten."

And behold I did plead repentence into my cell phone and did beg forgiveness.

Life is too short to chase lions, drink beer, chase women, drink beer, chase deer and elk and drink beer, and sit in a boat pretending to fish but really just drinking beer.

There are elderly to visit, homeless to feed and clothe, sick to attend to, there is snow to shovel in widow's driveways, and leaves to rake on Veteran's front yards...

I'll make you a deal since your skepticism is warranted. If you catch me so much as speaking one tiny bad word about the DWR and SFW from this day forward, I will let you line up CB and Kevin and kick them both in the nads as hard as you can, from point blank range!!! I will let you put Mulehounds pinkie finger in a vise and tighten it until he bursts forth into song praising the Lord. And I will let you take a fish hook and fishing line and sew Catmando's tongue to the end of his nose.

You guys lay our agenda out and pursue it with all your might and you won't get a peep out of me. But I do ask one favor.
In your power meetings and executive luncheons, please try to remember that the poor little lion was put on this earth and declared King of the jungle. And God put deer on this earth for one reason... to feed the lion.

So try to remember that the poor lion hasn't really done anything wrong to bring your wrath down upon him. He is just doing what he's always done, eat the food placed before him. So he doesn't understand why he is chased, harassed and persecuted for doing that which he was commanded.

As for the new Dawg and his newly acquired gardening skills, while I will no longer pass judgement on you, I will still not understand why there is so much fuss and hub bub over an animal that was only put on this earth to feed lions. ;-)

Go forth and fight your fight and win your battles where you can. I will not impede your progress and I will make this solemn vow. When the day comes that KTC finally draws his Pavhant elk tag, I vow that he will not use it to kill an elk but he'll frame it and hang it on the wall in celebration!! A celebration of life, liberty and the pursuit of the wiley wapiti.

-Dawg, New and Improved
 
Dawg

The words you speak sound good, but who is to say that you are not a double tounge or a wolf in sheeps clothing.

"verily verily i say unto you beware of false men who come to you in sheeps clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves".

Dawg I want to believe but verily i say unto you "show me a sign that i may believe", then and only then dawg can i open my eyes and believe such a vile creature.

I myself am on a new crusade, and i need all the help i can get for I say unto you, I to enjoy nature when before my eyes I found myself in a vast wasteland, for their was no species of any kind, not man or ass nor lion or deer nor elk or sheep nor turkey or bear and I found myself greatly troubled for what I enjoyed most was now gone. I could find no fish in the sea or bugs in the air for all was gone but me, and i wrestled for some time with all diligence but could find no answer and then out of a cloud appeared the all mighty lion and said unto me," It was not the houndsmans or the dwr or the sfw that turned this land into waste but it was the tree huggers and enviormentalist and anti gun men and wolves who tricked and decieved the land as to make people think they cared for the wildlife and that all things would take care of themselves", and i said unto him " how could this be?" and he saith unto me " it is because those that truly cared {sfw,houndsman, archers and the dwr) would not join forces and fight the wolves in sheeps clothing, instead they fought amongst themselves and when they realized what was happening it was to late" and I said unto the lion " why were we so dumd" and he said unto me "selfish intrests and pride will always prevail"

Dawg then i found myself back again and realized that if we as sportsmen dont unite and put aside our diffrences then truly my vision will come true.

tony abbott
 
Sorry boys, but King James English has always put me right to sleep.............What was it that you said??

Tony, I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the SFW, but you call for sportsmen to unite yet I see the SFW engaging in what I see as divisive tactics that seem to pit different sportsmens groups against one another. This was the theme of one of my posts a couple of months ago. What gives???

Also, I know my membership is past due, but since I joined the SFW I've only received 1 magazine and a video. They tell me one of my photos was even used in your magazine recently, but I don't know, I never received it. It's tough for me to get too excited about re-upping my membership when I'm not even on your mailing list.
 
OK, the jig is up. I didn't figure any of you would buy into the religious rhetoric but it was worth a try.

Fact of the matter is nothing will change a guys tune quicker than two felony wildlife convictions looming large over his head at Christmas time.

Maybe I didn't see a vision or have a heavenly being appear to me and chastise my persecution of the DWR and SFW...

But having guys in badges raid your house, handcuff you and drag you away in a truck with your wife and kid's watching is close enough. :)

Be it may... I'm a believer and I'm a changed man. One of those bighorn rams could dance across my front lawn right now and the thought would never even cross my mind!! ;-)

-Dawg
 
OK Fishon, since you called me out I will respond. I don't know you and all I know is you represent SFW. I am not pissed at you, I just call it like I see it. I thought I was going to the source.

You said to not judge you or call you arrogant. I feel your remarks towards the hound doggers community was extremely arrogant. It appears to me it was an "in your face" remark. If I got on here and talked about the slaughter of sheep the F&G would be knocking at my door with noose in tow.

My gripe on this subject is simple. The average Joes as they are called will probably never get the chance to hunt sheep, most probably don't even want to. Sheep hunting is a rich man's sport. My question is this; why does the lion population and the opportunity for the hound hunters suffer because sheep were let go on the face of timp? On public ground? Aren't hound guys "sportsman?"

My next question is this; SFW promotes more opportunity. Right? The amount of deer and elk opportunities surely is not increasing. Sheep definately are, maybe the elk somewhat, but not the deer. I have tried for 22 years to draw an elk tag, but to no avail. I see Pahvant elk tags are raffled and auctioned off at banquets. The Mailman has hunted the Pahvant, but I have not. Is that giving the average Joe opportunities? Or, did the rich and famous get the opportunity with these "extra" tags with their big bucks? Hell, I would gladly give 1/2 of 1% of my earnings to go hunt trophy elk. Problem is, my amount won't buy a few sheep to turn loose some where. So, as I sit here year after year hoping to draw, and Mail and company go hunting year after year, I will count my blessings and be thankful for my opportunities to maybe hunt a sheep sometime.

Last, and certainly not least, when are the deer herds going to be "just like Wyomings?" We were promised that and don't tell me we weren't. Remember it just like yesterday. The deer is what us averge guys hunt. Hell, it used to be that everyone was a deer hunter. Not any more. Leavitt capped the deer tags at 97,000 in 1994. Remember? Since that time we cannot reach objectives and the quality sucks. Year after year I hear how the deer herd fails to improve. Year after year the cap is 97,000. When it is proposed to draw the state and limit even further the amount of tags to be sold, SFW says, "We don't need to lower the cap, just better divide the pie." What is up with that crap?

If SFW is really about what they say they are about, then opportunities for all will be enjoyed. One group will not be singled out as "not important." Other groups will not get all of the attention and funds either. I am an average guy and I could care less about over priced range maggots. Fix the deer herd, don't control public lands, treat all sportsman equally, and quit ruining one groups enjoyment for the sake of another's "introduction." Then maybe we can talk.
 
If a group like SWF pushed to have elk tags alloted on harvest percentages I'd be the first to join. Instead they want 10 year old bulls dying of old age just so they can make more $$$$! Give more people OPPORTUNITY to hunt.
 
Gentlemen

In my opinion your offer to join and support a group is based on the group doing something for you 1st and then you will decide. Is that true? Also as I have mentioned I am average joe, I have only hunted elk on general season units and I to will never draw a sheep tag.

There is no way I can explain to you the things that I believe in and the direction sfw is heading over the internet, there is just to much to it. I can say that Utah is headed in a good direction with there elk managment and that the deer problem cannot be fixed by utah alone. Yhe deer problem is a west wide problem.

Also I hunted Nevada, wyoming and utah for deer this year and what I saw in nevada and wyoming didnt even compare to utah. Wyoming is in such worse condition then utah that its ridiculas.

Also those of you that want to cut general deer permits need to think of the results of that.

1st it is not SFW that is not recomending a reduction in tags from 97,000, it is the dwr that doesnt want to loose revenue. 2nd right now we can hunt deer every year in utah if we went to a 25 region hunt and lowerd tags then we would be like my realitives in nevada and only hunt every 4-5 years. THAT WOULD SUCK!!!!!!!!

The peoblem with our deer herds is not the amount of bucks killed it is the amount of fawns that survive every year.

bucks have almost nothing to do with deer populations, so reducing buck harvest will have minimal impact on population.

And last but not least utahs elk are distributed on a supply and demand basis. For example only about 6% of the hunters put in for archery permits so I think we should only distribute 6% of the harvest to archers, but we are giving 25% of the total tags to archers. if we did it like nevada then the archers would be more pissed.
All I am saying is give it a chance and try to understand that wildlife was in the shitter 10 years ago and now othere then deer on general season there is more opportunity for every species in utah which means we all benefit.

tony abbott
801-368-1436

p.s. send me you mailing info and I will make sure you get on the list
 
Tony I can't resist you have been a busy man as of late I would reccomend a raise from the board for you, you have earned it lately.
Joining an organization that would benefit you makes sense
hell would you join a scrapbook organization that does nothing for you or the resource that interest's you?? No you would not.
That is a poor argument, I will not get into the old bowhunting
debate with you that's done and over archery elk hunters will go
the way of the Timp lions. I think you work hard and have great passion for what you are doing it is just too bad that you can't
open your eyes and see beyond the party line for even a brief second. Oh and I am pretty sure that it was said by one of the board members from up north that you are in no way even close to the average Joe when it comes to wildlife issues and hunting.
Tony when SFW represents the average Joe and not just wealthy
rifle hunters ( that don't have waiting periods or bonus points )
let me know

Gordy
 
"Bucks have almost nothing to do with deer populations."

Huh???

I can only presume elk are the same. Why the spike only then? The elk have prospered.

Utah fails to meet objectives in both buck to doe ratios and mature bucks post hunt and that has nothing to do with buck harvest? What happens to those bucks that survive fawnhood? It must be the lion's fault. :)

If Utah's species are in such great shape except for the deer. Then why not tackle the issue? To tackle it "would suck." Ask the hound guys if the lions are prospering on Timp.

We hunted Wyoming 2 of the last 3 years. Took one 29" and one 28". Never done that here in Utah in 22 years, that is ridiculous.

If the deer problem is west wide, then why 97,000 again?

I did not offer to join. I am sure you guys are doing what you feel is best. Unfortunately, I do not agree with what has happened since prop 5. It just seems to me that SFW is focused on sheep and sheep introduction and reintroduction.
 
I have not and will not beg for your money or membership, Sfw will progress with or without you, If you were a member it would just progress faster.

Right now in Utah there is more permits availiable for joe hunter on limited entry units then there was 10 years ago. There is 5x as many sheep tags to DRAW for average hunter, There is nearly twice as many elk tags to draw for average hunter, there is more goat,moose,buffalo and turkey tags availiable for joe hunter. Bottom line there is more opportunity for joe hunter on limited entry hunts now then there was 10 years ago and sfw has played a big role in that.

Deer are a hugh concern, and we will disagree on the quality of utahs bucks because I know what i have seen on general season public land units. Wyoming is diffrent because it is all limited enrty and I would put utahs limited entry up againts any states limited entry anytime.

See i am in the buisness of average joe thats why I dont want to cut general season tags because that would only effect average joe.

Last night on my radioshow I had jim Karpowitz on and specifically ask him what effects deer populations, the number 1 thing is habitat which has a direct effect on fawn production and survival.

Jim stated that 10 bucks per 100 does is all you need to impregnate all the does, then he said that utah has a statewide average of 15 bucks per 100 does on general season units so he said buck to doe ratio is not an issue, he said fawn production and survival is the issue.

You people need to understand that jim is the expert and jim has put in place a mule deer and elk plan that I feel will work, but you have to give it time.

Yes, like many of you I fight hard for what I believe and I believe in what I am doing and right now that is suppoting SFW. All of you have jobs and careers that you work very hard at to be successful and I wish you well, I just wish you would realize that I to have a job and a career that I am working very hard at and I dont want to fail, I want what you want I think we just look at getting there a little diffrent.

Hopefully when all is said and done there will be opportunity for my kids and yours, I just hope we dont let the antis sneek in the back door why we are bickering with each other.

I have made a career of fighting for wildlife maybe you should do the same, who knows it might benefit us all.

tony abbott
 
Tony,

I don't want to sound critical of the DWR but here is my concern.

The DWR has put together a real nice Cougar Management plan and a real nice Bear Management plan. Just like you said Jim has a real good deer and elk management plan put together.

Here is the problem. They haven't shown much willingness to really stick to their management plans. A lion will kill a farmers cow on the Manti so they say, "Oh no, we need to kill 150 more lions this year."

Or a couple of elk hunters from Vernal complain cuz they heard some hounds barking on their elk hunt so "Oh no, we have to change the bear hunts around."

I haven't really seen a willingness on their part to stick it out and ride these management plans through to completion.

So my biggest concern would be how do you make them stick to their deer and elk management plan, instead of drifting whichever way the wind blows them?

I believe they probably do have a very good plan in mind and probably alot of money, time, thought and effort went into it.

Getting them to stick to it will most likely be the biggest hurdle. If you can hold the DWR to their promises and goals, you'll probably make some good progress.

But that will be difficult if Mother nature throws them a curve ball or something. It suddenly becomes very tempting to abandon long term goals for a short term fix.

Radio show huh? I had a radio show once, just for one day. They pulled the plug and told me it was too much. The final straw was when Howard Stern called in complained that my material was too offensive. :)

-Dawg
 
Fishon, why is it when one gives you their opinion, all you want to do is argue and pat yourself on the back for a job well done? Isn't the view of the "sportsman" an important information gathering tool that can be used towards a common goal?
 
One more thing Fishon.

You say you are for the average guy and that is why you won't favor a 25 unit state wide draw. You also say you don't want to hunt every 4 or 5 years like your relatives in Nevada. Then you go on to say you would not trade a Utah limited entry tag for any other states deer tag. Then, you say the general hunt is not very good, the deer herd is a concern, but better than other states.

What you are really saying is you would like to hunt small bucks every year and hopefully, if you are lucky enough to draw, hunt limited entry deer once, maybe twice in a lifetime to shoot a quality buck.

Seems to me the every 4 or 5 year option is the better way to go. If you look back through your remarks you will find you talk in circles.
 
ktc

I have never said the quality of utahs deer are in trouble i said fawn production and survival is in trouble. If you will look at all the posts that is what I was saying. Deer numbers are in trouble. If we had 425,000 deer like the mule deer plan states then this conversation would be mute. I can and will find 30" bucks on the general hunt and hunt them every year and if i get a limited entry tag i will be gratful for that as well.


Don peay and myself go the rounds over the very thing you mentioned, quality versus opportunity. I would much rather hunt every year with our current deer situation then lower permits and only hunt every 3-5 years. I hunted nevada this year after putting in for 6 years and it was by far the worst mule deer hunt I have ever been on. I drew units 101-108 muzzleloader and saw very few deer and 1 mountain lion.Don wants less permits because he is more for the quality (size) of a buck.

I remember 10 years ago when I could hunt statewide and with all 3 weapons, now i am limited to 1 region and 1 weapon. Opportunity is already gone I dont want to see it go anymore.

If we are to keep hunting around we need to create more opportunity not less, and now utah has a plan in place to do that.

I would guess that we are probaly going to loose some of the 97,000 permits this year and when that happens it might be you or I that dont draw a tag. How would that feel?

How many years are you willing to go without a deer permit? and after awhile i guess you would find a new hobby. 10 years ago we lost 100,000 deer hunters from our state that we will never get back!!! I am not willing to loose anymore. The division can fix our deer herds instead of putting bandaids on it.

I am average joe, I want to hunt with my kids and friends every year not every 5 years.Believe it or not I am on your side I just look at things diffrent then you,it doesnt make you or I wrong it just makes us diffrent. As I said, maybe more people should make wildlife a proffesion.

Dawg I agree with you that once a plan is in place we should give it time to see if it is a good plan, but we need some flexibility to ghange things under EXTREME circumstances.
BY the way Did you hear about the lion that got ran over tuesday up provo canyon? sprigville dwr has it.

tony abbott
 
A lion got run over on the Provo Canyon highway??? Hell, I've heard of similar fates to deer, sheep, elk, and goats on the same stretch of road...........perhaps we should just wipe them all out!!! :)
 
Look Fishon, we could joust back and forth on the issues and never make progress. If you would go back to post #35. I had three concerns. If you could address those fine, if not, that is fine too.

You, in a round about way, addressed the deer issue. For our herd to compare with Wyoming's 7 or 8 years ago we would need to see drastic change. The 97,000 cap is the only change that I can see that has had a positive impact on them. As our environment changes, so must the harvest of these animals.

I agreed that the elk opportunities have increased some. However, the biggest impact on them has been the limited entry and spike only.

My biggest concern was the control of public lands by an organization that has it's self interests in mind while ruining another groups use of this same public land. This is the same public land I frequent. If it's use can be ruined for one group, they can surely ruin it for me and my group.

SFW has made an effort to improve wildlife, but the attention is focused on certain wildlife. While they may be able to take credit in a few areas, most they cannot. If SFW is the "sportsman's voice" then let's voice the opinion of all, from bird guys to hound guys, to deer guys to sheep guys equally across the board.

I would love to make wildlife my career. Does SFW have a CEO or VP job open? ;)
 

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