Legal “spike” elk?

deerkiller

Very Active Member
Messages
1,026
Saw this photo and got to wondering. Assuming that 3rd antler is separate from the other 2 and it doesn’t fork anywhere and is just a single spike, by utah definition, is this a legal spike bull for a spike unit? If so, who’s shooting?

9A0C3F4F-AA2F-4A5A-978F-C08773BBB15C.png


I am! 🙋🏼‍♂️
 

deerkiller

Very Active Member
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1,026
1C2F2F48-F758-474D-B963-7F0BCB822FD9.png

Does the elk in question not satisfy this requirement with the 3rd single beam with no points, antler, for a “spike”?
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
8,204
and.....I doubt you could tell on the hoof if they were seperate bases........don't shoot
 

wytex

Active Member
Messages
610
Depends on the pedicle. One pedicle for that side, not a spike, separate pedicle, then probably legal.
I bet the warden would peel back that hide up top to see.
 

fullthrottle

Very Active Member
Messages
1,130
Utah needs to change this to bull with no brows whatsoever. Lots of yearling 2 points out there, very few yearlings with brows. Just saying the whole idea is to only allow yearlings to be shot. Spike X 6 ain’t no yearling.
 

BIG

Active Member
Messages
343
If that horn is separate than i would say its legal. The law doesn't define a third antler. I think with it being ambiguous it would be hard for the state to win if they gave you a ticket.
 

Shadow

Active Member
Messages
866
Utah needs to change this to bull with no brows whatsoever. Lots of yearling 2 points out there, very few yearlings with brows. Just saying the whole idea is to only allow yearlings to be shot. Spike X 6 ain’t no yearling.

Exactly! A couple years back, I let a bull walk on the very last morning of the muzz hunt and ate my spike tag. Solid 340 class bull, broken beam just above the brow. Perfectly legal? Yes. Right thing to do just because of a loop hole? Not even close.
 

deerkiller

Very Active Member
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1,026
100% not legal. You would have a very interesting conversation with a game warden.
How is it not legal according to the definition given by the DWR in the field regs? That 3rd antler which is a single slick spike, has its own separate, 3rd base, not connected to the other 2 separate antlers. There would be no discussion with the game warden. You went off their rules they published. “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.”
 

BIGJOHNT

Long Time Member
Messages
4,872
But it does branch above the ears. Just not that beam. I like my rifle to much. I wouldn't have the balls to pull the trigger and fight it out after the animal already hit the ground. I had one in front of me a few years ago. He broke his beam bellow the third point. So he was slick above his ear. But thats the letter of the law and I knew next year this bull would be a beautiful six point . It.s not worth the hassle most of the time. So I just videoed the bull and his buddy and enjoyed them.
 

ThunderImpulse4

Active Member
Messages
446
How is it not legal according to the definition given by the DWR in the field regs? That 3rd antler which is a single slick spike, has its own separate, 3rd base, not connected to the other 2 separate antlers. There would be no discussion with the game warden. You went off their rules they published. “Don’t hate the player, hate the game.”
Simple because that spike is it's own doesnt make it legal. It is still a branch antlered bull with an extra "tine". That is how a game warden would see it. 2 regular branch antlers and an extra. I even spoke with a buddy who is a warden and he confirmed it would be illegal to kill with a spike tag.

But by all means deerkiller go ahead and play the guessing game since you had to question it in the first place I wouldn't take the chance.
 

deerkiller

Very Active Member
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1,026
Simple because that spike is it's own doesnt make it legal. It is still a branch antlered bull with an extra "tine". That is how a game warden would see it. 2 regular branch antlers and an extra. I even spoke with a buddy who is a warden and he confirmed it would be illegal to kill with a spike tag.

But by all means deerkiller go ahead and play the guessing game since you had to question it in the first place I wouldn't take the chance.
So by that definition, a 1x2 that forks at the top of one side would be illegal then. But those legal to be taken.

he doesnt have an extra tine, he has en entire extra antler
 

ThunderImpulse4

Active Member
Messages
446
So by that definition, a 1x2 that forks at the top of one side would be illegal then. But those legal to be taken.

he doesnt have an extra tine, he has en entire extra antler

No deer killer that 1 by 2 will be legal because it has a spike has 2 antlers growing with one being a spike and this bull is a branch antlered bull with an abnormal point.

You would be a fool to shoot this bull and think you would be legal. Speaking to a game warden he told me this bull would NOT be legal.

Here is your sign deerkiller.
 

deerkiller

Very Active Member
Messages
1,026
No deer killer that 1 by 2 will be legal because it has a spike has 2 antlers growing with one being a spike and this bull is a branch antlered bull with an abnormal point.

You would be a fool to shoot this bull and think you would be legal. Speaking to a game warden he told me this bull would NOT be legal.

Here is your sign deerkiller.
Please show me in the regs where it states all normal 2-antlered spikes are legal, but the 3-antlered ones are exempt from 1 antler can’t fork above the ears, spike qualification rule.

I’ll wait.

dont be so quick to give away your sign. You’ll need it back here on your next post where you show me this law you’re about to quote for me to back your point.
 

ThunderImpulse4

Active Member
Messages
446
Call a warden and ask them. I did and he said it would not be a legal spike. That spike is not a normal point.

If you are so confident call a warden I challenge you to this ask the person who would write you your ticket take your gun and donate the meat.
 

deerkiller

Very Active Member
Messages
1,026
Call a warden and ask them. I did and he said it would not be a legal spike. That spike is not a normal point.

If you are so confident call a warden I challenge you to this ask the person who would write you your ticket take your gun and donate the meat.

normal or not, he still meets the definition and requirements of a “spike” in Utah.

Let’s have the name and contact info of the warden you called. I’ll call them as well
 

elkfromabove

Very Active Member
Messages
1,685
Not all CO's know ALL the laws! I've corrected more than one in the field with a hard copy of the Regs that I knew I would have a challenge with (hunt boundaries, county maps, legal weapon, safety, local laws, etc.). From what I can see on the photo, that's a legal spike. However, in the field I would have to be pretty close to make that decision.
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
8,204
I think that bull....if that is a seperate pedical spike ......is legal per the law.

NO WAY possible to determine that while he's walking around.......

No way would I shoot
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
Messages
2,356
If that horn is indeed completely separated from the other horn then yes it is a spike, that said you are taking a huge risk because if they are connected at all, even if they just grew into each other they would nail you to the wall.

I would need a lot more information on this bull than just this one photo for me to shoot it. I would need to see clear evidence that both beams are separated from base to tip.

I disagree with the argument that its an extra tine, so its not legal, if its a completely separate antler with its own pedical it falls inside the guidelines of the rules put out by the dwr.
 

hossblur

Long Time Member
Messages
4,684
I agree with Jake.

But the thing to remember would be touching at all.

A bull that size, with the 3rd that size most likely it wasn’t his first year growing it. Most freaky antlers are caused by injury, disease that effected the animal as antlers grew. This looks more like a birth defect, and I’d bet after skinning the head the pedical branched out. I’d be surprised if it was a separate one.

You’d have to have balls to shoot it. That bull in the back of a truck in a spike unit guarantees you’ll be meeting the warden, every dude with connection would be calling.

Cool bull though.
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
Messages
2,356
Here are some examples of 3 antlerd bulls.

this shed is pretty crazy, it stayed attached underneath the burr of each antler when he shed. I dont have a very good picture of it, but each antler is completely separate from each other, and each has there own burr.

Screenshot_20200718-100250_Instagram.jpg
Screenshot_20200718-100312_Instagram.jpg
Screenshot_20200718-100329_Instagram.jpg



These two antlers are off the same bull two separate years. I dont have proof that this one is a 3 horned bull but i suspect these are his 3rd antler two year's in a row.
Screenshot_20200718-100145_Instagram.jpg



Screenshot_20200718-100201_Instagram.jpg




There is also this guy, he had 3 separate antlers, you can see my hand wrapped around between the two in his left side.
IMG_20150826_095826.jpg


I have one more i cant find a picture of that had the same connection piece underneath like that first one, but he stayed separate and i never found the smaller 3rd horn.
 

Trix4me

Very Active Member
Messages
1,214
If it’s posted on the internet (MM) that it’s legal that all the proof you need. Boom 🤣
 

deerkiller

Very Active Member
Messages
1,026
so, I spent the weekend up at a popular fishing destination in Utah. I had the opportunity to talk to 2 fish and game officers while I was there. I showed this same pic to both of them and asked their thoughts. They both agreed, given this elk has 3 separate antlers coming from its skull, none of which are touching the other, this elk falls under the state’s definition of a legal “spike” bull. They agreed the spike definition is very vague, but they will enforce the laws as they are written. The one officer in fact encouraged bulls like this to be killed, given that this kind of Antler configuration can come from disease or injury and he’s best to be weeded out from the gene pool. They did emphasize that if the burrs are touching one another or are connected in anyway, then it wouldn’t be a legal spike. But if they were actually separated by hide and flesh, then it’s a legal bull.
 

Homer

Long Time Member
Messages
8,204
so, I spent the weekend up at a popular fishing destination in Utah. I had the opportunity to talk to 2 fish and game officers while I was there. I showed this same pic to both of them and asked their thoughts. They both agreed, given this elk has 3 separate antlers coming from its skull, none of which are touching the other, this elk falls under the state’s definition of a legal “spike” bull. They agreed the spike definition is very vague, but they will enforce the laws as they are written. The one officer in fact encouraged bulls like this to be killed, given that this kind of Antler configuration can come from disease or injury and he’s best to be weeded out from the gene pool. They did emphasize that if the burrs are touching one another or are connected in anyway, then it wouldn’t be a legal spike. But if they were actually separated by hide and flesh, then it’s a legal bull.
That is exactly what I thought they would say.......but damn...my eyes aren't good enough to ever pull that trigger....
 

Castnshoot

Very Active Member
Messages
1,048
so, I spent the weekend up at a popular fishing destination in Utah. I had the opportunity to talk to 2 fish and game officers while I was there. I showed this same pic to both of them and asked their thoughts. They both agreed, given this elk has 3 separate antlers coming from its skull, none of which are touching the other, this elk falls under the state’s definition of a legal “spike” bull. They agreed the spike definition is very vague, but they will enforce the laws as they are written. The one officer in fact encouraged bulls like this to be killed, given that this kind of Antler configuration can come from disease or injury and he’s best to be weeded out from the gene pool. They did emphasize that if the burrs are touching one another or are connected in anyway, then it wouldn’t be a legal spike. But if they were actually separated by hide and flesh, then it’s a legal bull.

That is exactly what I said in post #26 above.
 

JakeH

Very Active Member
Messages
2,356
That is exactly what I thought they would say.......but damn...my eyes aren't good enough to ever pull that trigger....
Yep, about the only way you could be absolutely sure is if you had some really really good trail cam pictures of him from all angles.
 

Shadow

Active Member
Messages
866
The only possible way to know for sure is once he’s on the ground, then either your good to go or it’s too late and you’re in a whole heap of trouble. I realize there are those who would attempt it but personally I wouldn’t touch that one. Not worth the risk.
 

BLooDTRaCKeR

Very Active Member
Messages
1,364
Why are ya’ll even arguing over such a petty topic?!

Remember the elk killing statistics are so low that ya’ll ain’t got a chance in heck killing a bull let alone seeing “a spike in question!”
 

Vanilla

Very Active Member
Messages
2,002
That is the craziest bull! And yes, a legal spike in Utah. No doubt about it.

Seeing the dead pic it is clear, but I don’t think I’d be able to get confident enough to pull the trigger while he’s on the hoof. I’d have to get a REALLY good look and be REALLY comfortable with what I’m seeing to send one on this bull in a spike unit.

But yes, that is a spike bull by definition in Utah. Very much so.
 
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