Losing Game

[slamdunk]

Losing game animals, it eventually happens to all of us at some point no matter how good of a shot we are.

I was outside last night when my neighbor walked over to see how my season was going so far.
Well actually, he's the kind of guy who asks how my season is going but doesn't really care, it's simply his way of opening the conversation to tell me about his.

He proceeds to tell me about their archery season and how his son just couldn't stick them right.
Well, after the third "stick and loose" story, i start becoming very agitated and really start questioning his ethics, not only as a hunter, but as a responsible father.
Then he starts in on the muzzle loader hit and lose deer....

I sat there and listen to him basically bragging about how great their season was going because his son has "hit" 4 deer!
His closing statement was something like this-
"Oh well, good thing we still have the rifle hunt so we can actually kill one!"

Ok here's my issue.
At some point he should teach his son that "enough is enough" and pull the plug on him at some point during the seasons, no??
In my eyes he's teaching his son what he really thinks of their hunting resources and that there is an endless supply instead of teaching him how to shoot better and take more responsible, practical and ethical shots at his targets!
(I live right next door and have NEVER seen him out shooting his bow)
Rifle hunt starts in a couple weeks, i can't wait to here their "success" stories.... (puke)

If this is just one story like this, how many thousands of others are there?
That's a lot of lost game each year.....

 

[BUGLEMN]

SLAM,

I HOPE YOU SAID SOMETHING TO HIM. THAT IS NOT RIGHT AT ALL FOR HIM TO BE DOING THAT, AND THEN TO BE TEACHING HIS SON THAT IT IS OKAY! WOW!! I DON'T KNOW THE GUY BUT DOES HE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE TO SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH?


BUGLEMN

 

[REDDOG]

sounds like the typical archery story to me.

 

[apollosmith]

This happens way too often. It's been forever since I've taken hunters ed, but do they not teach ethics any more in the class? Should they teach you to punch your tag and call it good if you lose an animal? I don't necessarily think they should teach that, but to shrug off 4 animals is unethical and wasteful.

I've lost 2 deer over the years and I still have nightmares about those experiences. Every fall I start having those recurring dreams and I *HATE* the idea of losing an animal. I now pass up questionable shots I've had taken in a heartbeat when I was younger. I now spend the money on high quality equipment, not primarily to increase my odds of getting an animal, but to decrease the odds of me losing an animal.

So how to fix the problem? Maybe you should take them hunting and teach and show them about sportsmanship.

 

[bowhunt]

Appollo,

I do not think teaching it in Hunt Ed will do anything!
Parents have to teach it to kids, and then live it.

Slammy,
Your neighbor sounds like an idiot! That is really too bad.

 

[MTCOWBOY]

Bowhunt,

Thanks!! I agree wholeheartedly that it's what & how parents raise their kids that matters NOT SOCIETY! Hunting or life in general. How many of us would have had blistered rears if WE would have acted like many kids & teenagers do these days?

Wayne

 

[completesportsman]

Both sound like idiots but I'd say the father is more at fault, the poor kid don't know better because sounds like he's never been taught better!

 

[slamdunk]

You guys that are mentioning hunters ed NOT teaching ethics are exactly right, at least i don't recall that part.
It's been about 30+ years since i have taken hunters ed, i wonder how much it has changed over the years??

 

[BWO]

I work with a guy who usually sticks about 3 elk a year, but never recovers any of them. It makes me sick to listen to these stories. People need to have more respect for the animals and the lives they live.

I wish people would understand the damage they are doing when they wounded multiple animals and continue to hunt until they recover one. In my opinion this is not only unethical but also very disrespectful.

If you hit an animal your hunt is done whether you recover it or not.

 

[Roy]

Well Slammy, the only hope you really have is that this kid (since he doesn't practice at all) is really a poor shot and has just flat out missed with the bow and the muzz - I know too many people who blame their poor shooting on the animals ability to escape. ("Oh I KNOW I hit him!! I had to have" etc.) The truth is, unless the kid found bloody arrows then you can rest assured that most likely missed and daddy is playing the typical Utard father who makes up any excuse he can to protect little Johnny's self esteem because missing a shot would certainly hurt it wouldn't it! The kid is probably a molly-coddled cry-baby pee-pants sugar tit momma's boy spoiled rotten brat who hasn't had to take responsibility for anything in his whole life and probably never will because daddy will bail him out and make an excuse for him.

If he did "stick" 3 bucks and "pop" another with the muzz, then yes it is the dad's fault they animals got away. He should take the time to make his son become a better shot, learn how to track and pursue better or keep his frickin' kid off the mountain.

Either way, it is the dad's fault.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

 

[kilowatt]

Maybe a visit from the local Game Warden would open their eyes and practice more.

Brian

 

[slamdunk]

Roy said-
"The kid is probably a molly-coddled cry-baby pee-pants sugar tit momma's boy spoiled rotten brat who hasn't had to take responsibility for anything in his whole life and probably never will because daddy will bail him out and make an excuse for him."

Hey Roy, i didn't know you moved across the street from me and know this family well, lets hang out!! Lol

Your dead nutz on my friend!!

 

[Coyote_chaser]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-09 AT 11:00AM (MST)[p]Do you ever bring anything to the table beyond sarcasm??? Just curious.....

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

thats not right. i shoot my bow just about everyday for an hour if i can. before the muzzy hunts i shoot my gun over 100 times to get a feel for where it is hitting and make sure i have a good group.

if i was you i would straight up tell them to not hunt for a couple years haha that way all the deer in utah dont become extinct

 

[Deerlove]

Slammy I thought I heard this story last year?

 

[slamdunk]

Deerlove-
You did, same guy, similar story, this is why i am so sick about it!!
How many deer is he going to let his kid kill?

 

[REDDOG]

>LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-09
>AT 11:00?AM (MST)
>
>Do you ever bring anything to
>the table beyond sarcasm??? Just
>curious.....


Nothing in my post is meant as sarcasm.

 

[Deerlove]

Too bad this guys a loser. I had my boy on his first hunt Sat. He shot at a group of four two pts. I thought I saw one go down. The other bucks just stood and watched. We got to the spot a relized he missed. I told him you dont KEEP shooting at a group of bucks.

 

[hornhunter247]

well slam this is something that has been going on for as long as there's been hunting. I have been around these guys and they piss me off, but I feel they are a lot more talk than show.
now its been years since I completed hunter safety but I do remember being taught some ethics in the class. as far as if you wound an animal you should punch your tag, no. and I hope they don't start. every hunters going to lose an animal or two during their lives. just the way it goes. and hs does teach that you should make every attempt to recover your trophy and follow up every shot. but as far as this family, sounds to me someone needs to make it clear that hunters don't just pulling the trigger. sound lazy to me.

 

[ARCHRYBLL]

I think there is alot of people that just chalk up losing game as part of the hunt. I can agree that there is a possibility that even the best hunter can lose an animal. That being said I think that it should be state law that if you draw blood your hunt is over.

 

[Coyote_chaser]

"Sounds like the typical archery hunt..." If that is not sarcasm then I dont know what is... Maybe we should all hunt with rifles in the peak of the rut for elk/deer so that we can avoid any game being lost?? That was sarcasm also... Reddog I know that you are not that ignorant or stupid to think that is the typical archery hunt, so you are either using sarcasm to take a jab at archery hunters... Or your ignorant or stupid or both?? Which one?

 

[ktc]

The good bowhunters, and other weapon guys for that matter, dont do this. It is the other 75% that pull this chit.

I think we all have lost an animal. Every year though? Multiples? Geez. I hate to admit it, but I hear these stories every year also.

 

[mtnmayhem]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-09 AT 04:32PM (MST)[p]That would be a great law ARCHRYBLL! Only problem is (sadly) most are not going to be honest when they are in the middle of woods, nobody is watching, and they want to keep hunting.

 

[slamdunk]

That's right, you could never enforce it.
I can assure you that it's that way with most ofthe top outfitters out there.
You put a hole in an animal, he's yours whether you recover him or not.

 

[LowCountryElk]

Bottom line, and it is up to us to enforce it by peer pressure ... if you hit an animal and draw good blood, you are done. It is up to you to collect the animal or go home and think about it for a year. One tag....one animal.

 

[ramtagless]

To me it comes down to respect for the game. If you have respect for the game - that type of thing is unacceptable. If you have no respect for the game - then its a who gives a chit, that is hunting attitude.

My antelope hunt this weekend is a good example. I put on a lot of miles Saturday, spent a lot of time behind binos and spotting scope and did not see one 'big' buck. S0...Sunday my expectations were a little lower and I was going to shoot any respectable buck. First thing in the morning I put the sneak on a little herd with a decent buck. The reason I pulled the trigger was I had them unaware at a reasonable range with very little wind - chip shot. One shot...game over. I would take that over a bigger buck running around spooked with gusty wind any day.

Later that day I see another hunter and he says he 'got' 8 shots, did not kill anything and was calling it a day at two in the afternoon. He acted like 'getting' shots made it a good day. What? If I shot 8 times in one day - the 9th shot would have been me shooting myself in the head. And - I can assure you he never followed up those shots. What a shame. That guy has no respect for the game...

 

[AZBuckSnort]

LAST EDITED ON Oct-05-09 AT 08:24PM (MST)[p]I'm an AZ Hunter Ed Instructor and I can assure you that hunter responsibility & ethics is the cornerstone of our class.

I'm often struck with amazement at all the folks who declare the game animal they hit with arrow or bullet to be "fine" or "it must be ok because I couldn't find it" and then continue to hunt. I folded a long waited for Az archery bull elk tag and packed my camp and went home after losing a bull I hit. It's a personal matter but I have yet to find the regulation that says you get more than one elk, deer, etc with the issued permit. I say a hunter knows when he buries an arrow or bullet into an animal and just because you can't find it doesn't mean you didn't kill it. The woods give up plenty of pickup heads to those who search every Spring.

 

[Gator]

I think it wishful think on their part that they hit that many deer, It a selfhelping(in their mind) story so they don't feel bad about being such a lousy shot,BUT what they don't understand when talking to another hunter they look even worse in our eyes. Send him a note letting him know, that it's wrong would be a start.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[completesportsman]

Slamdunk,
Maybe since they know you they know about MM's and are on here from time to time and will see this post. Maybe it will open up their eyes some.

You'll probably be marked off their Christmas card list though! lol

 

[born_2_hunt]

Your way too nice Slamdunk! After he came back a second year in a row to explain he had done it again I would have told him to get the f@*k of of my property and learn some ethics you piece of s@$t! People worry too much about hurting others feelings and all too often keep their thoughts to themselves. Chances are he is going to continue to wound game and maybe if you would've said something he would pull his head out of his a$$ and learn how to shoot!

 

[deadibob]

Slam if it bothers you that much (as it would me), what does that say about you if you don't do or say anything about it. Maybe it's time for a teaching moment to your neighbor. Try and be tactful if that doesn't work, be blunt. That man should be ashamed of himself. Call him on the carpet. If that doesn't work have the local warden teach him about ethics.

 

[sageadvice]

Hit one and You're done!

Though i hadn't lost an animal YET, i could see the hand writing on the wall as a young man. Though i really enjoyed bow hunting, i had bare re-curve equipment, didn't practice enough through-out the year, or have a mentor for instruction on how to shoot the equipment that i had. Before i wounded and lost, just knew it was soon to happen, i gave up that particular part of our game.

Those that hunt with stick and string, really do have to step up their practice sessions, accuracy skills, and most important of all...shot selection. I live in Bow hunter central here in Kali. The stories i hear daily during the bow season turn my stomach yet most of these guys are "my kind" of people. I know that there ARE lots of guys that are all around competent archers, i just seem to always hear from the guys that hit and lost 2 or 3 animals a season. It's a black eye to us as "hunters" and a danger to the continuation of our heritage IMO.

Joey

 

[ARCHRYBLL]

All I can say is, it is a good thing all of us aren't unethical. If we all lost 2 animals a year think of what would happen to our game numbers. +1 on what you said Sage, All of us bowhunters have a responsibility to take the time to make sure that when the time comes we have practiced enough to make an ethical and dead on shot! Slam I also think that if it were me I would say somthing to this guy and just let him know that what he is saying does not impress you at all.

 

[slamdunk]

I'm the type of guy wo refrains from conflict, even if it's a simple argument with a child (unless provoked).

But you guys are exactly right, i should say something to him. I have listened to him for two years now and i think because i am a guide he is simply trying to show that he too is "successful" by putting his boys on game and getting shots, he doesn't realize i walk in my house and vomit.

If he tells me they hit and lost another one on the upcoming rifle hunt, i'll change my ways ;-)

 

[bowhunt]

Good luck Slam!
It is hard to confront neighbors, knowing you have to live by them potentially for a LONG time...hence the saying "tall fences make good neighbors"

Just say " wow, in the guiding world we have to quit, and ask our clients to quit when they draw blood"

Keeps you on his good side, gets the point across, and maybe gets him to quit telling you about, what are most likely, made up stories.

 

[never_catch]

Slammer I agree with kilo, if you happen to know someone with the division or even if not, you might wanna consider trying to get a warden to talk to him about it. I don't think it would hurt the situation any and hopefully he'll listen up and learn a little something. I know of a guy like this and they're extremely frustrating to talk to or get along with...best of luck to ya!!

~Z~

 

[YoungCountry]

This $hit pisses me off!
Always gotta be some lowlife stick flipper to top it off!
And no,I'm not bashing ethical Archery Hunters.
Some of these jokers are just as wreckless with a muzzleloader.
If we had more people like slamdunk in the field it would sure be a better place but we are surrounded by Tards!
As mad as I get at the young kids pulling this crap off I'd like to break that Bow over the parents head!
These are the same kind that don't put 5 minutes in to recovering an animal!
Then they got the nerve to bragg:I hit 4 this year,what a joke!
I hope the kids Dad reads this & wants to start something off of MM.


we are YoungCountry, we like all kinds
of music and people, 'cause we do draw some lines'
no our hair is not orange,we don't wear chains and spikes
but we know how to have fun come Saturday night

 

[RidgeRebel]

Here's a tip for the fathers out there: Get your kids involved in Organizations such as The Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and The Mule Deer Foundation. These groups are great at teaching ethics. If you read the publications produced by these groups they can teach you and your children alot about ethics. I owe alote of my great hunting expirences involving ethinc to lessons that I have learned from them. Also Slam, I wouls suggest to your neighbor that he and his son visit http://www.huntfairchase.com/. Along with the others that I mentioned. Yes, we all make mistakes but it's how we deal with it that makes a good/ethical hunter.

RidgeRebel