Merge OIL points

[Broomer]

Proposing that we tell DWR to allow all applicants to combine/merge all their OIL points. Make a new rule that each applicant who has OIL points can use them on any OIL species for that given year. Or let there be a one time consolation and transfer to another species. I like the idea because I've got points for 2 different species the most being for moose. However, I've lost the desire to draw a moose tag. I'm in no mans land with 16 and I'll never be in the bonus. My father-in-law has Buffalo points but really just wants to hunt moose, my brother has moose points almost max but really wishes he had sheep. I ask why is it that as a resident can I only buy/apply for only 1(one) OIL animal, but as a Non-resident (as well as all residents in these states as well as non-res applying here in Utah) in Wyoming, Nevada, Colorado, Arizona, And I think Oregon/Washington are allowed to buy/apply for all Trophy species. It's time for the Utah system to give a little so people will move through the system as they want. It's like a stock position, sell and buy into a new position!

 

[Vanilla]

I'm a hard no on this one. All that will do is turn everything into the moose pool: completely hopeless. Although I don't have much hope myself in the bison pool.

The reason non-residents are allowed to apply for all OIL species is simple: $$$$.

The number of NR OIL tags is so small that the point creep is stupid impossible anyway. Might as well sucker all those people into $50 more every year in app fees.

 

[dack77]

I've talked about this multiple times with people I know. My thoughts are, I think the dwr should allow for us to change points for a fee. Make it steep, I don't care. $250 a point to change, whatever. Bring that cash into the dwr and use it for something good. I am also in no man's land for moose points at 18, but I went to British Columbia and shot a decent moose. I now have no interest in moose but I am stuck because it doesn't make any sense to start at something new. I'll gladly swap those to something else to be in no man's land again so that I at least have something that I still have interest in hunting.

 

[deerkiller]

Big NO, for several reasons.

As far as the DWR going for this, you'd have a better shot at taking the LE rifle elk hunt out of the rut, and that won't ever happen.


@screaminseagull

 

[elkassassin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-19 AT 04:22AM (MST)[p] So?

Now that NON-Residents have been Earning OIL Points for Umpteen Years on all OIL Species they could Guarantee themselves some OIL Tags!

NOT A F'N CHANCE!

HELL-RIGHT!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[grizzly]

Absolutely not. Nobody is stopping anybody from switching species. You can do it whenever you'd like but we all made choices, sometimes decades ago, that we need to live with. Getting everybody running in circles because moose aren't as desired anymore is a horrible non-fix for a problem that isn't really even there.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[Founder]

Many years ago when I was on the SFW board, the head at the DWR approached us asking SFW?s opinion on a one time point consolidation, swap.
It only took a few minutes for everyone on the board say NO way would we support that.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
@mm_founder on Instagram
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!

 

[goofyelk]

This was proposed about 10 years ago to the RAC and Board.

A study was done.
An astounding NO was decided.

Merging OIAL points will never happen in Utah.

 

[elkassassin]

>Many years ago when I was
>on the SFW board, the
>head at the DWR approached
>us asking SFW?s opinion on
>a one time point consolidation,
>swap.
>It only took a few minutes
>for everyone on the board
>say NO way would we
>support that.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>@mm_founder on Instagram
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!


You were on the SFW Board?

(((RAZZIN Ya!)))








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Deerlove]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-19 AT 01:29PM (MST)[p]You put in for it, live with your decision.

 

[elkassassin]

If NON-Residents could Merge!

Some of them would have Double or maybe even Triple of Maximum Points!

Wondering if that would Guarantee you a Tag in TARDville?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[hornkiller]

Im a GIANT YES Lets do it I would have 48 points for a sheep tag!

 

[elkassassin]

>Im a GIANT YES Lets do
>it I would have 48
>points for a sheep tag!
>
>
>
>
>

LOL!

Would 48 be enough?








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[dack77]

Forget about non-residents, it makes no sense to allow them to do this when they can buy all points.

For residents, I would like to hear why no is your opinion. Everyone says no, but no one except one has given a reason why and that was just because it'd turn the others into the moose chaos. I don't see the chance that we could change ever happening, it's just wishful thinking, but I'd gladly pay to get the hell out of the moose rabbit hole to get into another rabbit hole that I have no chance of drawing. At least I am going after a species I've never hunted at that point. Can anyone expand on the study that was done and the reasons they came up with as to why it was a bad idea?

As it stands now, I'll just end up saving up the coins to go back to British Columbia to hunt mountain goat because there's no chance in hell, even if I started now that I'd ever draw that tag.

 

[bowedark]

>Im a GIANT YES Lets do
>it I would have 48
>points for a sheep tag!
>
>
>
>
>

that would give me 77 points on that sheep tag

 

[rmanwill]

Negative!!!

Changing the rules in middle of game is never good.

 

[Broomer]

It's funny to read those who say NO

It's funny to read that SFW board would have any say in how I think

It's funny to read ?you made a decision live with it?

It's funny to read non-residents having 48 points for sheep

You know what guys, for this very reason I'm an absolute YES because I believe the state can regulate but they can't control. I believe people, my neighbors, my fellow residents of my state are just that. Governments are made up of people, they don't own the resources, we do. Each resident of each state owns the wildlife. Forget special interest board members making policy. What about residents voices. I wasn?t asked that by the DWR. Had they asked I would have said yes.

We aren't talking about non-residents, they already have the full cake. We are talking about residents.

Frankly I'm sick of boards ruling the roast. Wildlife boards, sfw boards, RMEF boards, etc..... I understand how the system works I get it. It's this kind of thing that I feel the masses need to push back. If you are in the other camp ?the status qua? camp so be it I'm not!

I think it's wrong that all of us who have a vested interest in our resource by being residents of a state don't really have a say. Let's face it this rule was made 30 years ago or close to it. Some on here weren't even born. I was but I was a teenager. I didn't get a vote.

I've drawn a desert bighorn tag because I abandoned my moose app 15 years ago and hit the lottery, drawing with 1 pt. I had a hand full of moose points so I made that decision to go back. I'll own that. Along the way I've applied for rocky sheep a hand full of times so now I have points for 2 species.

I bet everyone of you would take that deal if it was available AND you wanted to.

I want to, I want to take my 20 OIL points and try to draw a rocky sheep tag or a Buffalo, or a Mt Goat or maybe a moose. I want CHOICES!! I want to be able to go from a sheep application to a moose, to a goat, to a buffalo and what ever I want.

So dack77 asked for some reasons why NO? Let's hear them.

 

[Broomer]

>Negative!!!
>
>Changing the rules in middle
>of game is never good.
>


This is a game? Boring

 

[Broomer]

We need an avenue to take back control of these boards!!

 

[hornkiller]

"We aren't talking about non-residents, they already have the full cake."

How does the cake taste?

I haven't had the chance to try it yet!

 

[Broomer]

>"We aren't talking about non-residents, they
>already have the full cake."
>
>
>How does the cake taste?
>
>I haven't had the chance to
>try it yet!

As a Non-resident of Colorado it taste freaking delicious!! I put in for all species and draw! Non-res My Goat Tag.

 

[300Win]

I would have to vote no as well. It would be unfair to the people who have spent there life trying to draw a specific tag. I was lucky enough to have been in on the draw when it started and I picked Rocky?s for the once in a lifetime tag. I stuck with it and drew 14 years later because of max points. When I started I figured I would never draw in my lifetime but that was something I was willing to risk. Lucky for me they made 50 percent go to max points and I got it. There were like 34 of us with max points and I was so afraid they would cap it before I drew. I am not in the running for anything now but I think it would be unfair to those who have stuck with it to change it now.

 

[Broomer]

It's not about fairness, it's about choice. Everyone has stuck it out. Guys with max points are equal are they not? If I have 23 points total and you have 23 points total why is that unfair for you if I am able to apply for some other species? It's not really. What really makes everyone fired up is that everyone has hung their hunting career on the bonus pool. They?ve held on to the years until all the tags are drawn through their individual point levels. We are all in the same position really if you are in no mans land in one pool you'd be in no mans land in another. I believe lots of guys would bail on moose and disperse between all the rest of the OIL?s. But each applicant that does that has invested time and has grinned it out just the same.

 

[grizzly]

Broomer, you say you want choices? You've got choices! Apply for any tag you want, but you have no right to points for a species you haven't earned. You drew Desert with 1 point. That's awesome! I wish you great luck in doing it again. Nobody is trying to force you to stick with moose, but you made that choice you desire.

People always say that DWR will never be able to get rid of points because they were bought and paid for... that kind of cuts both ways. You bought moose points, not sheep or goat. Sorry that you changed your mind 15 years later but it is what it is.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[Broomer]

Great point! I did as the system currently exists. I greedy I want to draw more trophy species that's all. I know I can apply for anything and still have random chances. I guess I just want to consolidate and draw another Mt Goat tag. I'd take an archery tag to make it fair ok?

 

[elkfromabove]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-19 AT 06:52AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-19 AT 06:50?AM (MST)

I say yes on 6 conditions:

1)- ALL OIL points are used if you draw ANY OIL permit.
2)- Remove the 50/50 rule but keep the points so those that have max points have a BETTER chance to draw, but not a guaranteed chance.
3)- Allow us to change species whenever we want, but allow ONLY ONE hunt choice. No second or third or fourth or fifth choices.
4)- Only ONE added OIL point per year. No more multiple points added per species.
5)- Make them truly OIL draw permits. You could still BUY one at an auction or from a CWMU, but you couldn't ever APPLY for or DRAW another one for the same species.
6)- Include the EXPO draw as a public draw. You could still apply for and draw an EXPO permit for an OIL species you haven't drawn, but you couldn't even apply for a species you've already drawn.

A #7 could possibly be included in the rules, but I'm not sure whether that would be possible in the OIL rules (7a below) or could be added to the mentor rules (7b below).

7a)- Include the youth in the same category as the mentor. If the youth chooses to be mentored on an OIL permit, he is HUNTING an OIL species and should be held accountable for that choice.
7b)- Remove OIL species from the mentoring list.

They're ONCE-IN-A-LIFETIME permits!!!!

 

[JakeH]

I say Yes, especially since they only let you apply for one species.

If they had been letting you apply for all at once this wouldn't make sense, but they are your points I don't see why you shouldn't be able to use them for whatever species you want. And I honestly don't think it would make that much of a difference to most hunts.

Obviously this would not apply to Non Residents as they already F'ed you guys over by allowing you to apply for everything, cant put that cat back in the bag.

Jake H.

 

[Vanilla]

I agree with the notion that they are my points and I should be able to choose when and where to apply to use them. But I disagree with what I think is a fatal flaw in this notion of using points on any species.

I do not possess a single ?once in a lifetime? point. I have a few ?bison points,? however.

So I agree I should be able to decide where I apply and for which hunts my BISON points go to, but that is where my ability to choose ends. If we go down this road, why not combine the deer, elk, and pronghorn points as well? What is the difference?

Again, I'm a solid NO on this one. I likely will never draw a OIL species in Utah, and that kind of sucks. But changing the rules half way through the game so I have a better shot at winning doesn't seem like a moral thing to do to me.

 

[roadrunner]

I would sell my (NR) points in a heartbeat to any resident if they'd let me.

 

[elkassassin]

>I would sell my (NR) points
>in a heartbeat to any
>resident if they'd let me.
>

And I Would Buy them!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[grizzly]

> And I honestly don't
>think it would make that
>much of a difference to
>most hunts.

JakeH, it would make a big difference for people that chose species like goat to get better drawing odds when a bunch of guys sitting on moose points decide they are getting too old and just want a Willard or Beaver tag while they can still hunt. That's certainly not right.

I have a feeling 80%+ of supporters of this idea hold moose points and the rest are sitting on bison points.

This seems to be really nothing but people with buyers remorse trying to get a do-over a decade too late. Nobody is stopping anybody from switching species and nobody could predict what each species population would be now or a decade from now. There were never any guarantees. We all made a decision and we need to stick with it or choose to change at our own expense.

Grizzly

-----------------------------------------

Ask yourself if you agree with the following statement...

"It's time to revisit the widely accepted principle in the United States and Canada that game is a public resource."
-Don Peay, Founder of SFW, as quoted in Anchorage Daily News

 

[elkassassin]

And Why did the DWR let NON-Residents Apply for all OIL Permits each year?

$$$!

Did I Say Money?

More Money!

HELL-RIGHT!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Vanilla]

Look at post #1 bessy.

 

[elkassassin]

>Look at post #1 bessy.

DAMN Niller!

We Agree on Something?

HELL-RIGHT!









I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Robiland]

I say no only because I know 2 guys with max points (me at 17). And lets say that there are 300 guys with max points. 25 in each pool. (just and example). Now all of a sudden you have 300 guys for sheep or goat or bison or moose? That would be crazy. Not really fair to the guys waiting a lifetime to draw that moose or bison tag and are right on the front step of doing so, then BAM 300 guys and now youre on the bottom step again.

 

[heartshot]

Yep totally unfair to move them around.
Hunter A chooses to go for the really really bad odds of a desert sheep. Spends years working the worst odds. Hunter B wants better odds and spends years working/enjoying better odds for moose etc. Now Hunter B wants to move to be equal with Hunter A. Even though they may have the same number of years/points, the risk to reward ratio earning those points was not the same.

 

[heartshot]

Non residents would be a factor with combining points. When you retire; you haul your 5th wheel to St George and become a permanent but temporary resident, combine your points, and hunt whatever species you want.

 

[elkantlers]

I would love to see this happen for Residents only. I have always thought that the OIL species specific points should converted to a true OIL Point that can be used for any species.
I have 24 Desert sheep points. If they were converted to a OIL point I would apply for a Bison tag.
When I first started applying for Desert sheep it was the only OIL species I had ever seen in my life so thats what i applied for. Now, I have spread my wings and my hunting desires have changed.
I would fully support converting to a OIL point.

 

[bugleb]

The ones that are really screwed by the point system are the kids/grandkids. They are so far behind before in the point parade before they are even old enough to start buying points that they will be old men, if ever, before they can draw out on anything.

 

[elkassassin]

>The ones that are really screwed
>by the point system are
>the kids/grandkids. They are
>so far behind before in
>the point parade before they
>are even old enough to
>start buying points that they
>will be old men, if
>ever, before they can draw
>out on anything.

YUP!

And I Said before they Started the Points System it wouldn't work!

Nobody believed Me back then!

How Bout Now?











I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!

 

[Broomer]

elkantlers

I know I started this thread and what I mean when I say make OIL points rather than species specific, is just that. So a guy like you and me and anyone for that matter can change up year to year on applications. However, bro I know to each their own, but 24 points for Desert Bighorn? I know you understand where you are sitting and that your desires have changed. The pure value of the permit you are almost about to draw is 10 folds that of any other OIL.

This is a really interesting take by you, because if you are willing to bail on a desert sheep tag for a Buffalo tag you just made my point. These sheep guys are thinking wait a minute maybe they're onto something haha!

With all due respect I would honestly give anything to be in your shoes. Obviously I told you I drew my desert sheep. It was an unforgettable experience and though a buffalo would be super cool, you will not regret your hunt.

you should be real close on drawing, maybe this year? Or are you telling us you haven't been applying and see it as a less exciting tag?

Trust me it won't be like Founders Mt Goat hunt where he lost the desire to kill a goat after walking up on it and not scaring it away. The country they live in, the majestic nature of their bighorns, the fact that it is so unbelievably rare to have a tag in your pocket. All these reasons and more to draw that tag and go have a hunt of a lifetime.

If you want any help on your hunt I'd love to join. I've been lucky to be on several sheep hunts for utah deserts.

 

[sticksender]

>Obviously this would not apply to
>Non Residents as they already
>F'ed you guys over by
>allowing you to apply for
>everything, cant put that cat
>back in the bag.
>
>Jake H.

Glad to see there's a resident who actually understands this fact.

 

[elkantlers]

Broomer, I do know exactly where I am at with my Desert sheep points. I know I am very close to getting a tag. My wife had a desert sheep tag a few years ago so i have already been on one DS hunt. I would still trade to Bison in a second

 

[roadrunner]

>>Obviously this would not apply to
>>Non Residents as they already
>>F'ed you guys over by
>>allowing you to apply for
>>everything, cant put that cat
>>back in the bag.
>>
>>Jake H.
>
>Glad to see there's a resident
>who actually understands this fact.
>

No, non-residents would still compete with non-residents for the +/- 10% of the tags allocated.

It wouldn't affect residents in the least.

My points are for sale, $10 each.

 

[woodruffhunter]

>>The ones that are really screwed
>>by the point system are
>>the kids/grandkids. They are
>>so far behind before in
>>the point parade before they
>>are even old enough to
>>start buying points that they
>>will be old men, if
>>ever, before they can draw
>>out on anything.
>
>YUP!
>
>And I Said before they Started
>the Points System it wouldn't
>work!
>
>Nobody believed Me back then!
>
>How Bout Now? ?

I Believe you Bessy!

Now we are seeing the complaining- many who burned their points on a hunt are now screaming for more opportunity. Those that have waited patiently to draw, be damned!

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

I would vote no on this. Seems like a mess to change the rules in the middle of the game.