Muzzy Observations

[accubond]

Hey all,

I'm curious to hear what everybody observed during the muzzy season in their area? No units but if folks could give the general area of the state, what they were hunting and what they saw for numbers and quality compared to years past or research/expectations.

 

[SWAGshootn]

Gunnison Basin. Hard to find any deer older than 2 1/2. Deer numbers I would say are down 25%. Had a friend who hunted the basin 3rd season last year and with the early snowfall, he said every 22-24 in deer got hammered. It def showed.

 

[TKMulePacker]

I live and hunt in an area adjacent to the large winter kill area this year. The number of hunters on the forest this fall where I am at is probably the most ive seen in my 13 seasons hunting this area. The elk are around in the usual spots but mannn are they sneaky. Pretty much fully nocturnal even on last weeks new moon. My father shot a cow muzzy week but only because the ranch below us were gathering cattle and pushed some bedded elk into our laps. Heard lotsa bugles, but none were from elk.

 

[sb2017]

I feel like it's a repetitive thing to say, but for sake of sharing my experience I will still say it: the amount of people in the woods is out of control. I drew a muzzy bull tag for an area that I live right next to. Lucked out and scored a muzzy buck tag off the reissue list to accompany it. I made it out for long weekends on both ends of the season, both times in areas that I had 3 and 4 mile hikes (respectively) to get to where I planned on glassing from. In both places combined, the people to animal ratio of what I saw seemed to be about 3:1. I'm sure that number goes up substantially as you get closer to a road.

I don't feel that I have any more of a right to be out hunting than anyone else, and I certainly don't have any ill will against the other hunters that I run into while I'm out hunting. I'm simply saying that in my opinion, the popularity of hunting in Colorado has reached a level high enough that it no longer makes sense to continue to issue unlimited OTC tags. At least for the amount of units that are currently open to the OTC tags. Only 2 of the 15+ hunters I encountered had orange on, meaning it's a safe assumption that the rest of them were archery hunters with the OTC archery tags, or people accompanying the OTC archery hunters.

In my 7 days of hunting, I saw 3 cows, 2 does, and 2 bucks. I did not see a legal bull. I don't necessarily think that the lack of animals I encountered is due to population decline (with elk, at least), I think it's more of a reflection of how animal behavior is adapting to accommodate the unprecedented amounts of pressure that each year continues to bring. I believe the elk herd that I normally hunt in the unit has already been pushed down onto the adjacent private, when historically they tend not to move down there until weather pushes them down in November.

Just my two cents: it has gotten to the point for me that I would honestly opt to sacrifice hunt opportunity (in terms of frequency) if it helped to increase the overall quality of the experience. I.E., I would rather hunt every other year and experience half of the people, than continue to hunt every year and experience the current amount.

I certainly don't mean this post as a sob story or excuse about why I didn't fill. No one ruined my hunt and I still had a great time enjoying being out there. I'm simply stating that in two different isolated areas that I have consistently found a lot of animals in historically, both were severely lacking in animals this year, and also were holding an alarming amount of hunters.

 

[TKMulePacker]

OTC archery needs to go away. end of discussion.

 

[1989Cohunter]

I’ve slowly watched over the last 10-15 years my go to archery elk spot get destroyed. It started with myself and one or two other groups has no expanded to 5-7 new groups, that are close to totaling 30 people. The craziest part is every single other group is from out of state.

I agree with above in the fact I have no more right to be there. I also think the otc archery need to end. I’d go so far as to say all otc goes away. By no means do I know what to do. But I think it’s obvious hunting is suffering.

 

[Bigwiffy]

Hunted archery during the muzzy hunt in a couple historically pretty solid units. It was/has been tough. Not necessarily due to hunting pressure, but moreso just lack of animals and a lot of non hunting pressure. A lot of granola munchers and also turkey hunters packing center fire rifles, which must be fairly new?

Have hunted both units in the last 5-6 years and this year has by far been the leanest. One of the units was in the Gunni basin. I talked to the biologist before who assured me "there had been no winter kill" talking to locals and from our observation it sure seemed like night and day difference in ungulate sightings from even a few years ago. CO is gorgeous, beautiful country, real locals are some of the best people I've met anywhere. Sad to see what it has become and unfortunately becoming. Gunnison Basin is in rough shape, and does it really take years to fix hwy 50? That construction alone is worth not applying for those units coming from the west. Always fun to see the bums at the park in Grand Junction though, they seem to increase each year!

 

[elks96]

OTC archery needs to go away. end of discussion.

Only for NR. The entire state except the top units should be OTC for residents and NR should all be capped.

 

[elks96]

Seriously the very first step should be NR cap on archery and all units that are not considered trophy units return to OTC for resident archery.

Why would residents want to cut thier own throats when a ton of the pressure would be eliminated by simply putting OTC with caps in for the NR. When I left Colorado we had 3 camps from Colorado hunting our area and typically 7-10 NR camps. Since then they have made more units Draw only forcing more pressure into the OTC archery units.

A hard cap on NR archery. Put the SW units back to OTC for resident, put the flat top units back to OTC for residents, etc.

 

[elkhuntn247]

Southwest CO, secondary draw tag. Lots of people in the hills. I was hunting the high country, saw a total of 5 deer in 3 days of scouting. Ended up taking a solid buck opening morning that I located the night before.

 

[TKMulePacker]

Only for NR. The entire state except the top units should be OTC for residents and NR should all be capped.

Unpopular fact: A lot of resident hunters who come up from the front range are just as bad if not worse than you're average non resident mid-westerner when it comes to being disrespectful/rude humans. East of the continental divide might as well be NR. Texans get an outright ban, can we build that wall, but on the TEX/CO border? SorryNotSorry.

 

[sb2017]

Unpopular fact: A lot of resident hunters who come up from the front range are just as bad if not worse than you're average non resident mid-westerner when it comes to being disrespectful/rude humans. East of the continental divide might as well be NR. Texans get an outright ban, can we build that wall, but on the TEX/CO border? SorryNotSorry.

+1. The vast majority of the front range folks that I encounter are every bit as bad as the coastal yuppies.

 

[elks96]

Unpopular fact: A lot of resident hunters who come up from the front range are just as bad if not worse than you're average non resident mid-westerner when it comes to being disrespectful/rude humans. East of the continental divide might as well be NR. Texans get an outright ban, can we build that wall, but on the TEX/CO border? SorryNotSorry.

So wait are we complaining about the number of people or the type of people? Sorry but the numbers don’t lie. I believe the last few years the number of NR archery hunters has surpassed the resident. Or at least in some areas. If you go limited for everyone then you will still end up with the same people and just hunt less often with those same people…

 

[The_Coloradoboy]

Saw more people in the west elks/Gunnison basin (where I guide) than ever before. Was able to take 4 bulls with muzzy hunters but it didn’t come easy. Elk were silent for the most part and the numbers seem to most certainly down. Just a few small groups scattered around that took a lot of miles on the horses to locate. Didn’t see much success on the DIY hunters part. Seen very few mule deer and every buck was sub 3 years old. Didn’t see a single moose in 7 days which is extremely rare for this time of year…

 

[COLOelkman]

Central Mountains/East of the Continental Divide - A few bugles very early and very late the 1st 2 days then almost none. Lots of rain didn't make it any easier with a muzzy. Catching Covid right at the start of the hunt probably was the worst for me but I still went out and hiked many miles and just saw extremely few elk. So overall I was very discouraged and expected more after many scouting trips and seeing lots of elk. Had archers in the area I hunt much of the 1st week that probably didn't help. Drug myself home with my tail between my legs and trying to rest up!

 

[oldmossback]

Unpopular fact: A lot of resident hunters who come up from the front range are just as bad if not worse than you're average non resident mid-westerner when it comes to being disrespectful/rude humans. East of the continental divide might as well be NR. Texans get an outright ban, can we build that wall, but on the TEX/CO border? SorryNotSorry.

Some of us do not have a choice but to live on the eastern slope! For work, medical insurance and family. Believe me, I would much rather live on the western slope . I agree,
Assholes are everywhere.

 

[lostinOregon]

I hunt the Grand Mesa every year for elk and have for the last 20 years or so. I have access to private so I am fortunate. I will tell you from my observations are that NR [which I am] numbers have really increased over the years for archery, and 2nd and 3rd seasons. The elk numbers appear to be about the same, what is different is the bull to cow ratio. I have seen a steady decline in the last 10 years or so in bulls. I think it is time for CO to go to draw for all elk seasons which would put the NR numbers in the right place.

 

[bubba]

The 2nd and 3rd seasons need to be limited quote. What I seen last year was an orange army chasing elk and just shooting hoping to kill one. It's was a sad sight to see. The state wildlife areas were packed with orange every where you looked. It's actually got very dangerous. We had our kids and they were the only ones that hunted on this trip. I was not going to put my kid in harms way for a deer or elk. To many people. Im from out of State and agree something needs to be done. Quality of a hunt is more important to me than being able to hunt.

 

[Padfoot]

As a NR bowhunter in an OTC unit, first time OTC and first time in the unit, I hunted draw units previously, I was amazed at the number of people going up and down the roads at all hours of the day. Boots on the ground 7-days and not one elk sighted personally, and very little fresh sign. Looked like all the elk moved the first weekend down to private or steep and deep.

I saw a few 2.5-year old bucks, lots of does and heard of a a couple of big deer in remote corners. I only saw 4-Muzzy guys in the woods (they shot a couple of deer), the rest were roadies.

I can say that we hunted hard for 4.5 days, and was amazed at the lack of fresh sign after the 9/4 rains and the rains 9/11-9/14.

I did not hear of any elk taken in the OTC unit. But that is not saying that some were not taken. I won't go back to that unit until it has been a draw unit for a couple of years. It has tonnes of potential, just hammered to oblivion by sheep (sheep dogs) and hunters.

 

[Grouse Legs]

Hunted archery during the muzzy hunt in a couple historically pretty solid units. It was/has been tough. Not necessarily due to hunting pressure, but moreso just lack of animals and a lot of non hunting pressure. A lot of granola munchers and also turkey hunters packing center fire rifles, which must be fairly new?

Have hunted both units in the last 5-6 years and this year has by far been the leanest. One of the units was in the Gunni basin. I talked to the biologist before who assured me "there had been no winter kill" talking to locals and from our observation it sure seemed like night and day difference in ungulate sightings from even a few years ago. CO is gorgeous, beautiful country, real locals are some of the best people I've met anywhere. Sad to see what it has become and unfortunately becoming. Gunnison Basin is in rough shape, and does it really take years to fix hwy 50? That construction alone is worth not applying for those units coming from the west. Always fun to see the bums at the park in Grand Junction though, they seem to increase each year!

Bum park! One of the seven wonders of grand junction

 

[1989Cohunter]

Bum park! One of the seven wonders of grand junction

I’ve had the privilege of seeing it grow since I was a wee lad. It’s now really grown into something that I think we can all be proud of!

 

[Deercy]

I hunted memorial day weekend withmy boys with archery tags. One deer and one elk. We hunted deer on the first two days. Saw some the 1st day, nothing the next. Monday we had a miracle, in that a buck was almost killed where no bucks should be. We also had 3 different bulls respond within a 100 yards, and almost killed one. That evening we had a 3 point bull in range. Fast forward to last Thursday evening, in muzzleloader season, but with archery tags. I pulled my 13 year old out of school early, drove an hour and a half, and parked down on the road below the same elk spot. We hiked up to the ridge and bugled down into it. Nothing. It was raining and around 430 so we were pushing. Next we climbed to a good glassing spot. While there we heard voices, then a door slam. Some cool dudes had parked a camper in the sweet spot. So we cleared two quick ridges, and were into elk. A bachelor party. 5 bulls. A 5 point, 3 rags, and a shurenuff big boy. I dont like to call a lot, and it was almost dark, but my boy needed to hear them fired up, so we fired them up. Two rags came to 100, the rest stayed probably 200. Not a cow around. Those guys that were parked in the middle of a good area is something I see a lot. I have two friends that hunted bulls with muzzleloader. Both killed. One hunted a dream area and said it was dreamy. The other didn't see or hear one until he shot a sneaky 5 point on day eight in a good unit. We are hunting 1 point area.

 

[HntHrdr]

+1. The vast majority of the front range folks that I encounter are every bit as bad as the coastal yuppies.

Gents… it’s because most folks living on the frontrange are not from Co! They are all transplants. As a front ranger (born and raised in Co though) myself I am just as upset as my west slope brothern that the state has been over run by yuppies of all ilk, wether from Tx, Ca, or the Midwest. And let’s be honest they have ruined the state with their idiotic politics

 

[sb2017]

Gents… it’s because most folks living on the frontrange are not from Co! They are all transplants. As a front ranger (born and raised in Co though) myself I am just as upset as my west slope brothern that the state has been over run by yuppies of all ilk, wether from Tx, Ca, or the Midwest. And let’s be honest they have ruined the state with their idiotic politics

Agreed, there are plenty of exceptions and I don't automatically place judgement on someone based solely on being from the front range, it's just a trend that's pretty hard to ignore that *most* of the front range crowd tends to be pretty insufferable. In my experience, it's generally the non hunting recreationalists that are the worst.

Also agree on the politics... I will never understand the concept of moving to escape a place that has been ruined, then continuing to vote the same way that ruined the place that they just escaped from. I guess us rural hillbillies are just too dumb to understand

 

[Deercy]

I'm front range to the core. Love my coffee shops, and all those people that buy my products. One thing, a front range occupant is a lot more fun to work for than a crusty midwest farmer. Those boys can really be difficult, bless their hearts.

 

[WestTxHunter]

I'm front range to the core. Love my coffee shops, and all those people that buy my products. One thing, a front range occupant is a lot more fun to work for than a crusty midwest farmer. Those boys can really be difficult, bless their hearts.

Which one do you think would vote to release more wolves?

 

[HntHrdr]

Which one do you think would vote to release more wolves?

Oh it’s well known, frontrange pushed the wolves hard and barely squeaked it by largely with money from NY and CA based groups, that was possibly the most devastating bill to wildlife in Co, ever.

 

[Deercy]

Which one do you think would vote to release more wolves?

If I hate everyone that isnt like me, I'll be pretty lonely

 

[WestTxHunter]

If I hate everyone that isnt like me, I'll be pretty lonely

Absolutely However, those cool people will have you alone by your fireplace when you used to be hunting. There's good and bad people everywhere but you understand what I'm saying.

 

[Deercy]

Which one do you think would vote to release more wolves?

I had some really nice girls living in one of my rentals while going to school. 3 of them, one from Mississippi, one from Manitoba, and one from the San Luis valley, her dad is a good friend, and a farmer. One day we were chatting, and somebody mentioned that had signed the petition while out and about. I asked them if they had any idea what they had done. They just looked at me blankly. None of them were liberals, and if i could have explained the negative, probably wouldn't have signed.

 

[HntHrdr]

I had some really nice girls living in one of my rentals while going to school. 3 of them, one from Mississippi, one from Manitoba, and one from the San Luis valley, her dad is a good friend, and a farmer. One day we were chatting, and somebody mentioned that had signed the petition while out and about. I asked them if they had any idea what they had done. They just looked at me blankly. None of them were liberals, and if i could have explained the negative, probably wouldn't have signed.

This was the problem, it became a one sided argument. And it originated outside of the state. I educated as many as I could about it, heck even some sportsmen signed it since they didn’t read the thing and naively thought someday we would get wolf tags… but yes I don’t want everyone to be like me or think like me, but I’d like to be able to live how I see fit just like they want. When they start forcing beliefs on me it’s no different than a church forcing beliefs or lifestyles. They can’t comprehend it though because “they” are right and I’m wrong… how far back and how “native” do I have to be for me to accepted as a staunch NIMBY? I totally get why the tribes didn’t want us to come in and upset their way of life. Well it’s happening again, still disguised as progress, this time it’s not with repeating rifles and Calvary though, it’s billionaires, corporations and rich out of staters forcing their ideas on all that live here. Heck I wish I could count coup and take some scalps it might slow down “progress”

 

[jasn]

OTC archery needs to go away. end of discussion.

So why would OTC end, but leave OTC rifle? Seems ridiculous, so educate me. I've never heard of a successful version of the North American big game model with OTC rifle, but limited primitive weapons?

 

[time2hunt]

The biggest Ive seen during my two muzzy trip to unit 21 was everyone that had a muzzy deer tag also had a rifle bear tag and archery elk tag. Tell me what weapon would you use ????

 

[HntHrdr]

The biggest Ive seen during my two muzzy trip to unit 21 was everyone that had a muzzy deer tag also had a rifle bear tag and archery elk tag. Tell me what weapon would you use ????

Were they rolling around with all 3 weapons?! If so that would be quite the feat