My RAC proposal

B

BLTSO

Guest
To those of you who have taken the time to write letters to the RAC and board, thank you. I have enjoyed hearing your input, and have done my best to represent as many of you as possible.

Here is what my proposal is to the board. I sent it this morning. I just thought you should know where I stand.

Members of the RAC and Board,

Thank you for your time and dedication to the wildlife in the State of Utah. Your time is invaluable, and greatly appreciated.

As I am sure you all were, I have been inundated with copious amounts of e-mails regarding the buck to doe ratios across the state. From my table of extrapolated information I have determined that, (from those who voiced their opinions through written word) most people want something completely different from the next person, for completely different reasons. I'm assuming you all have found something similar.

Although I know there is no clear way to make everyone happy, and equally balance hunter opportunity with trophy class dear hunting, I do believe we can make a step in that direction. Given that the state has been broken down into "micro-units" I find it only fitting that we utilize that move, and use it to the advantage of the management. The approach we are taking at this point, come across to me as if we are trying to put out a large fire, with a garden hose.

Without getting to wordy, or drawn out, here is my proposal.

I move that the state Wildlife Board sets in place a wide objective for the state at between 10-25 bucks per every hundred does. Following that move, the determination for each unit will be moved to the region in which the unit resides for discussion and professional input. At that point, a narrower objective will be determined for each unit (ie, 15-17, 18-20, etc.) I understand the overall objective is very broad, however, so is the state. There are units in the North East Region (where I reside) that have historically never had buck numbers over 12/100. Ever. In the history of recording the data. Ever. If we set the objective on that unit for 15-17, there will be no chance for tag regeneration in the future and we will eliminate the opportunity to hunt in that area.

I urge you to consider all of the emails in their entirety, and see it as I have. Although I would like to someday have the opportunity to learn each individual region, unit, mountain, etc. I have not had that opportunity and as such feel as if I don't have the right to vote on what the management should be in those locations. Fortunately, we have a large division of people who are paid specifically to study and understand those locations. I feel it only necessary to hear their input on each unit, before making an educated decision.

Thank you for your time, and hard work.

Sincerely,

Carrie Mair
NE Region RAC
At Large
4357248511
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-12 AT 08:56AM (MST)[p]Carrie--

I believe the problem with our whole system we now have is what you said exactly...."there is no clear way to make everyone happy", you hit the nail on the head 100%.

IMO you will NEVER succeed in making everyone happy. I urge YOU and every other RAC and Board member to be thinking about WHAT IS BEST for a dwindling resource (period and period) and not about making everyone happy, that is not your job....

Mule deer management (notice I didn't say hunting strategies) decisions should not be made based on license sales.

Thanks for your post and your concerns and willingness to give of your time.


Todd Black

Visit our YouTube page
http://www.youtube.com/user/bulls4bto?feature=mhum
 
sounds good we just need to get total population up all over the state .thanks for your time and effort.
ken.
 
Todd,
Wouldnt it crazy to see the management strategies if budgets were not tied to license sales!!!

I truly believe we would get to see the great minds of our biologist at work and succeeding!
 
As I've stated every time I have talked to you Carrie:

You can't satisfy everybody & that I Guarantee!

The DWR has tried Satisfying Screaming Opportunists for several years,where'd it get us?

I'll state the FACTS OF LIFE one more time:

Until Management Plans are moved in to place that bring Deer Numbers back this Buck to Doe Ratio BS ain't gonna matter or cut it!

Manage Game & Herd numbers like they've managed the Anthro Elk herd & what do you have left?Well you're looking at what you have left,might be a good Bull to Cow Ratio but who gives a damn,there ain't enough Animals left to worry about it!

But BY GAWD a few more Tags were issued & they Slaughtered the Cows,they Satisfied a very 'FEW' hunters for a very short time so I guess everything is Peachy now!

Just used the Anthro Elk Herd as an example,I know We are talking Deer Management,DAXTER can Chime in now & tell me I'm not a Biologist,You're Right & I don't think you need to be one to see the light!

Thanks for your Support Carrie,within a couple years I'm expecting you to have the Deer Herd fixed here on the South Slope & I am expecting to be harvesting 30" Bucks in the near Future!:D










[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Could not agree more STTM. Until we actually have a thriving herd of Deer this Buck Doe ratio biological theory holds no water. The current disaster the state is now in perpetuated by this thinking shows it did not work. Not saying it is the whole problem with Utahs situation just one of many.
 
About two weeks ago I watched a buck that had already dropped its antlers breed a doe five times and there was no doubt that she was standing for him.

I've watched this same herd go down hill. There has been three or four mature bucks and a hand full of yearling bucks trying to breed a couple of hundred does.

I have noticed fawns with spots as late as Aug. Does with fawns have to stay close to water. There is not a lot of water in some of the areas this herd spreads out into come summer. Predators hang close to the water and have three batches of fawns to eat instead
of one.

This is in the Beaver Unit. I made my recommendation for the higher
ratio. For what it's worth.
 
I've seen Fawns with Spots in October!

What does this tell us?

It tells us a few things!

But again I'm not a Biologist!

The final thing it tells us is a Fawn born that Late is nothin more than Coyote Bait just like the last dead one I found!

And to think we got JOKERS worrying about animals dieing of old age ine Utah,JFP!


[font color=red size=redsize=18"face"]SHOW THEM TO ME![/font]
If You Love Your Country,SHOW THEM TO ME!




Hot Dog,Hot Damn,I love this Ameri-can
 
Right again STTM. We have a problem with the herds dying too young!
If we get the predators controlled the hunter numbers should be able to go back up. Until then I think we can HELP with higher buck to doe ratios (that's my vote).
My kids would rather hunt every other year and see a few bucks than hunt every year and look at 200 does before finding a buck.
If we continue to pound every buck we'll not make much progress with deer numbers and fawns will continue to be born late.
It's quite a balancing act to make everyone happy. It ends up that EVERYONE will be angry! LOL

Good luck Carrie,
Zeke
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-12 AT 07:00AM (MST)[p]Carrie, this may sound like too simple of a question. Is it possible that those units in the NE Region that are around 12 to 100 buck to doe ratios, have been recieving too much pressure in the last 20 years? Is it possible with maybe a 20% tag cut on those units, along with the predator controls that have been happening, you may see those buck numbers start to go up?
As the buck numbers start to rise, so will the the hunter success % and so will the % of hunters more satified with their hunt.
Just a thought.


Thanks again for all you do.

Koby
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-05-12 AT 09:55AM (MST)[p]

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-29-12
>AT 08:56?AM (MST)

>
>Carrie--
>
>I believe the problem with our
>whole system we now have
>is what you said exactly...."there
>is no clear way to
>make everyone happy", you hit
>the nail on the head
>100%.
>
>IMO you will NEVER succeed in
>making everyone happy. I
>urge YOU and every other
>RAC and Board member to
>be thinking about WHAT IS
>BEST for a dwindling resource
>(period and period) and not
>about making everyone happy, that
>is not your job....
>
>Mule deer management (notice I didn't
>say hunting strategies) decisions should
>not be made based on
>license sales.
>
>Thanks for your post and your
>concerns and willingness to give
>of your time.
>
>
>Todd Black
>
BIngo!!! manage for the GOT DANGED DEER NOT THE HUNTERS!!!!! you cannot please everyone so why not manage for the deer. this state is unbelievable!!!! we have not even started the new managment plan and all you whining idiots are already trying to change crap!! give this an opportunity! give the deer an opportunity! its not all about hunter opportunity if we have no deer.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Mar-03-12
>AT 07:00?AM (MST)

>
>Carrie, this may sound like too
>simple of a question. Is
>it possible that those units
>in the NE Region that
>are around 12 to 100
>buck to doe ratios, have
>been recieving too much pressure
>in the last 20 years?
>Is it possible with maybe
>a 20% tag cut on
>those units, along with the
>predator controls that have been
>happening, you may see those
>buck numbers start to go
>up?
>As the buck numbers start to
>rise, so will the the
>hunter success % and so
>will the % of hunters
>more satified with their hunt.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>
>Thanks again for all you do.
>
>
>Koby
+1 there is a reason its not getting above 12/100 likely hunting pressure and or PREDATORS! lets give this new mngmt a few year before changing crap before it starts im sick of this crap changing manage for the dang deer!!!
 
BANG, BANG, BANG, again I will beat the drum. If you have 100 deer and a 25% doe/buck ratio you still only have 25 bucks. WE ARE FAR SHORT OF CARRYING CAPACITY for mule deer on ANY range in the state. Until we increase our herd size(yes trophy hunters, not just the population of 30" 4x4) buck to doe ratios are simply rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. Ask yourself, where do you read about bull to cow ratios? You don't, and thats because we are continually increasing the elk population. The smartest thing Tony Abbott has ever said is that the first fawn that is born to a buck, will be the first is DEAD ON. MORE DEER, MORE DEER, MORE DEER!

Thanks for your work Carrie!


When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!
 
>BANG, BANG, BANG, again I will
>beat the drum. If
>you have 100 deer and
>a 25% doe/buck ratio you
>still only have 25 bucks.
> WE ARE FAR SHORT
>OF CARRYING CAPACITY for mule
>deer on ANY range in
>the state. Until we
>increase our herd size(yes trophy
>hunters, not just the population
>of 30" 4x4) buck to
>doe ratios are simply rearranging
>deck chairs on the titanic.
> Ask yourself, where do
>you read about bull to
>cow ratios? You don't,
>and thats because we are
>continually increasing the elk population.
> The smartest thing Tony
>Abbott has ever said is
>that the first fawn that
>is born to a buck,
>will be the first is
>DEAD ON. MORE DEER, MORE
>DEER, MORE DEER!
>

I hear your banging!

Here's my thought, see if some of this shiite sticks.
If our buck ratios and maturity level is such that the does are not being bred and/or the fawns drop too late, then it would make sense to increase the buck. Good hell we've tried everything else. Let's control the hunters for a couple years with increased buck to doe ratios.

I agree with Tony. A buck will never drop a fawn. To add to that, an un-pregnant doe will never drop one either.

We agree on this; We'd all like to see and shoot 30" 4x4 bucks but we're on the same page when it comes to NUMBERS. WE NEED MORE for the benefit of the herd!

Oh, and part of the reason we never talk about bull to cow ratios is because the bull take is verrrrry limited. The deer take is not except in a select few areas. I know, I know, even in some of those areas the deer numbers are not exploding and the range is in good shape. Maybe we'd all ought to kill a few more coyotes of a few of the dog/wolf hybids!

It's a complex issue, to be sure.

Zeke
 
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