New Adminstration to review Bears Ears/GSENM boundaries

[Oneye]

President Joe Biden’s order to review Utah monuments leaves options open, but expansion all but certain

President Biden has launched a 60-day national monument review that is expected to lead to the restorations of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase monuments, which had Trump had slashed by 2 million acres. Utah leaders demand a seat at the table.

www.sltrib.com

Good news for the conservation of the natural resources in the area. Hopefully they will review, and pass and solidify the 2 monuments in congress giving concrete futures to both. Slashing the boundaries as was done was a bad move by the prior Administration and I support returning GSENM back to its original boundaries, and adding some areas back into Bears Ears that were cut out. GSENM is one of my favorite places there is, and it deserves forever protection, as does Bears Ears. The 2 counties encompassing most of Bears Ears have both voted to ask for a return to prior boundaries. Now this is just a review of the boundaries but I would expect Bears Ears especially to get further boundary protections. GSENM we shall see. The Native American voice in the area also heavily approves of Bears Ears original boundaries. I don't know that it will get the full designation it did under Obama, but Bears Ears boundaries will undoubtable grow giving great protections to wildlife and the landscapes.

 

[bowhunt]

These areas have been protected for many many years, because of location.
Returning them to how they have been for many years as you state, would mean to get rid of the designation.
"Original Boundarys" equals no designation, which is probably how it should be, and has protected that area for thousands of years.

 

[Oneye]

These areas have been protected for many many years, because of location.
Returning them to how they have been for many years as you state, would mean to get rid of the designation.
"Original Boundarys" equals no designation, which is probably how it should be, and has protected that area for thousands of years.

No actually. The second the boundaries were trimmed on Grand Staircase Utah started looking to drill, and it’s why they want Bears Ears trimmed as well. I’ll take the forever protections over a state that sees nothing but monetary gain at the cost of landscapes, wildlife, and natural resources. The monuments ensure those protections. And I hope they solidify them through congress as well. Around 10% of landscapes in America are protected from development. I’ll always support protection of places from oil and mining development. It also protects the areas from green energy development. And these places should be left alone.

 

[johnnyutah]

I don't like the top-down land management and legislation from the executive branch. The President should be enforcing laws, not making them. Natural Resource management should be determined by the legislative branch with input from the citizens. Not determined by a 4-year king.

I support and prefer wise use of our public lands. The "lock it up" mentality has done more harm than good to our public lands. I live 20 minutes from Zion and have little interest in spending time there. It's now an industrial tourism complex. Utah is being overrun by a "preservation" mentality that sucks in the masses, clogs the trails, and pushes to get rid of hunting.

The no cut policies of the Clinton Administration turned the Dixie National Forest from a balanced green producer of jobs and recreation into a brown stand of beetle kill that costs millions in firefighting costs. Instead selling timber and putting some cash into the national treasury, we've turned it over to the beetles and go into more debt to put out fires. I'm not remotely impressed with what SU-YA & Clinton brought this way.

The Bears Ears was quieter 10 years ago and in no danger of any development. Obama became king and decided it needed to be a tourism area. He paid homage to his irrational environmental supporters with an obscure area that was in danger of nothing. Now Bears Ears is a well advertised sport, it's watched and visited like a football game, and it has a very uncertain future as there is a Super Bowl every 4 years.

 

[notdonhunting]

President Joe Biden’s order to review Utah monuments leaves options open, but expansion all but certain

President Biden has launched a 60-day national monument review that is expected to lead to the restorations of Bears Ears and Grand Staircase monuments, which had Trump had slashed by 2 million acres. Utah leaders demand a seat at the table.

www.sltrib.com

Good news for the conservation of the natural resources in the area. Hopefully they will review, and pass and solidify the 2 monuments in congress giving concrete futures to both. Slashing the boundaries as was done was a bad move by the prior Administration and I support returning GSENM back to its original boundaries, and adding some areas back into Bears Ears that were cut out. GSENM is one of my favorite places there is, and it deserves forever protection, as does Bears Ears. The 2 counties encompassing most of Bears Ears have both voted to ask for a return to prior boundaries. Now this is just a review of the boundaries but I would expect Bears Ears especially to get further boundary protections. GSENM we shall see. The Native American voice in the area also heavily approves of Bears Ears original boundaries. I don't know that it will get the full designation it did under Obama, but Bears Ears boundaries will undoubtable grow giving great protections to wildlife and the landscapes.

What two counties voted to return the boundaries? And from where did you gather this info?

 

[Lymanhh]

San Juan County doesn't want BENM returned. You sir have been misguided in all this or indoctrinated. Do more research please. It's been fine for hundreds of years before a monument and will continue to be fine. Most if not all native Americans I know are opposed. They can't be bought.

 

[Oneye]

San Juan County doesn't want BENM returned. You sir have been misguided in all this or indoctrinated. Do more research please. It's been fine for hundreds of years before a monument and will continue to be fine. Most if not all native Americans I know are opposed. They can't be bought.

Oh they didn’t? Actually a month ago they did.

San Juan County Commission wants Biden to restore Bears Ears boundaries

A majority of the San Juan County Commission voted Tuesday to ask President-elect Joe Biden to restore the original boundaries of the Bears Ears Monument in Utah — boundaries that were significantly reduced by the Trump administration.

www.deseret.com

As did Grand County

Utah’s Grand County asks President-elect Joe Biden to restore Bears Ears monument borders

The Grand County Commission has unanimously asked President-elect Joe Biden to fulfill his campaign promise and act quickly to restore the original boundaries of the Bears Ears National Monument.

www.sltrib.com

Weird what happens when the Native American voice in the area isn’t racistly gerrymandered out huh? I guess you just like “local control” when it agrees with some of you right?

 

[grizzly]

I've found the narrative that the "locals" don't want the Monuments to be false.

San Juan County had one of the most contentious County Commission races in the state's history over BENM and the tally ended up 2-1 for the Monument.

The Escalante & Boulder Chamber of Commerce has also been a proponent of GSENM.

It's pretty hard to say the "locals" don't want it when the voters and the businesses are supportive.

EDIT- @Lymanhh, would it be fair to assume you're a Lyman from the San Juan area?

 

[Oneye]

I've found the narrative that the "locals" don't want the Monuments to be false.

San Juan County had one of the most contentious County Commission races in the state's history over BENM and the tally ended up 2-1 for the Monument.

The Escalante & Boulder Chamber of Commerce has also been a proponent of GSENM.

It's pretty hard to say the "locals" don't want it when the voters and the businesses are supportive.

EDIT- @Lymanhh, would it be fair to assume you're a Lyman from the San Juan area?

But but but the gold old boys don’t want it so it can’t be so! Happy to see the Native American voice actually represented in the area. Restore the boundaries to both.

 

[grizzly]

But but but the gold old boys don’t want it so it can’t be so! Happy to see the Native American voice actually represented in the area. Restore the boundaries to both.

I'm actually fairly agnostic on it. I've hunted in both and am well-aware of all the lies propagated by the opposition to the NMs saying hunting/ATVs/woodcutting would be banned. Which of course it wasn't.

I also don't want it drilled though. On the other hand, I've seen personally the problem with "loving something to death" too. Sometimes not giving a designation is the best way to save public land.

My issue is with the lies told about the NM rules and what the "locals" want. It wasn't an honest debate.

Who is a "local" anyway? Is somebody who lives across the Colorado border a local? Or do they have to live in Utah? What about a liberal in Moab? Is a rancher in Panguitch a local? Maybe a yuppie in Boulder? It seems the Monument opposition likes to try and handpick which voices they think are legitimate by which side that person takes.

There's no intellectual honesty there. We can't have a legitimate discussion when the foundation is based on lies.

 

[Oneye]

I'm actually fairly agnostic on it. I've hunted in both and am well-aware of all the lies propagated by the opposition to the NMs saying hunting/ATVs/woodcutting would be banned. Which of course it wasn't.

I also don't want it drilled though. On the other hand, I've seen personally the problem with "loving something to death" too. Sometimes not giving a designation is the best way to save public land.

My issue is with the lies told about the NM rules and what the "locals" want. It wasn't an honest debate.

Who is a "local" anyway? Is somebody who lives across the Colorado border a local? Or do they have to live in Utah? What about a liberal in Moab? Is a rancher in Panguitch a local? Maybe a yuppie in Boulder? It seems the Monument opposition likes to try and handpick which voices they think are legitimate by which side that person takes.

There's no intellectual honesty there. We can't have a legitimate discussion when the foundation is based on lies.

Let’s just say it. “Local” in most cases here especially on a forum like this means a conservative white guy and that’s the voice they see as legitimate. (Everyone has their own biases and intellectual dishonesty but white conservative Utahns have a long way to go in opening their mind to the fact that their opinion isn’t the only one that matters in this state) As we can see here, apparently San Juan County doesn’t want the boundaries restored according to the brilliant folks on this forum......sure I guess if you’re just throwing out the Native American voice and most recent county vote like they managed to gerrymander and do until a judge ruled against the racist district boundaries it was.

 

[Ultimag]

San Juan County doesn't want BENM returned. You sir have been misguided in all this or indoctrinated. Do more research please. It's been fine for hundreds of years before a monument and will continue to be fine. Most if not all native Americans I know are opposed. They can't be bought.

Sorry but.we won't he drillng it for oil & gas
You can't know many native Americans
Because just about every one of them I've,spoken with want it protected from development ,oil.gas & wall street .
Its,sacred to them and their heritage.
It,should be 100% protected.
Time to start investing in green renewable energy(_wind ,, solar)& electric and,away from enviroment polluting oil & gas
(We own a,Tesla,) if they ever produce a,fully electric truck I'll be the first in line for one

 

[Ultimag]

I'm actually fairly agnostic on it. I've hunted in both and am well-aware of all the lies propagated by the opposition to the NMs saying hunting/ATVs/woodcutting would be banned. Which of course it wasn't.

I also don't want it drilled though. On the other hand, I've seen personally the problem with "loving something to death" too. Sometimes not giving a designation is the best way to save public land.

My issue is with the lies told about the NM rules and what the "locals" want. It wasn't an honest debate.

Who is a "local" anyway? Is somebody who lives across the Colorado border a local? Or do they have to live in Utah? What about a liberal in Moab? Is a rancher in Panguitch a local? Maybe a yuppie in Boulder? It seems the Monument opposition likes to try and handpick which voices they think are legitimate by which side that person takes.

There's no intellectual honesty there. We can't have a legitimate discussion when the foundation is based on lies.

Local means living.in the state,of utah

 

[Ultimag]

Let’s just say it. “Local” in most cases here especially on a forum like this means a conservative white guy and that’s the voice they see as legitimate. (Everyone has their own biases and intellectual dishonesty but white conservative Utahns have a long way to go in opening their mind to the fact that their opinion isn’t the only one that matters in this state) As we can see here, apparently San Juan County doesn’t want the boundaries restored according to the brilliant folks on this forum......sure I guess if you’re just throwing out the Native American voice and most recent county vote like they managed to gerrymander and do until a judge ruled against the racist district boundaries it was.

The,brilliant folks in this,forum. Are not that brilliant

 

[Ultimag]

The Bears Ears was quieter 10 years ago and in no danger of any development.

Actually it is in danger and had the prior administration had it their way , every square foot of national forest./federal land.would have been fair game up for sale to development,oil and gas, he was NOT environmental friendly

 

[grizzly]

Local means living.in the state,of utah

So a conservative rancher from just across the border in Dove Creek, CO is not a local, but a liberal professor from SLC Avenues neighborhood is?

What about somebody from California that bought a house outside Monticello last fall?

What about Rob Bishop?

Or is every American citizen a local since it's federal land and we all own it equally?

Who decides who the "locals" are?

 

[Bluehair]

Access is the issue with these. I have one within shooting distance from my backyard, that I have said before you USED to be able to go to. Now We’re fooling around with another NATIONAL monument I can see from my backyard.

Here’s the formula: the goobermint blocks historical access used by “DIY’ers”. Next we establish ovrcrowded parking lots where they want you to go. As a bone to the locals, we’ll sell business rights for some concessions. And the disneyfication is complete.

Tribal goobermints are notoriously liberal and ALWAYS vote for more federal control, which is completely illogical. Plus the whole White Mesa thing keeps the activists stirred up.

Pace yourselves boys, it’s just gunna get worse.

 

[Oneye]

Access is the issue with these. I have one within shooting distance from my backyard, that I have said before you USED to be able to go to. Now We’re fooling around with another NATIONAL monument I can see from my backyard.

Here’s the formula: the goobermint blocks historical access used by “DIY’ers”. Next we establish ovrcrowded parking lots where they want you to go. As a bone to the locals, we’ll sell business rights for some concessions. And the disneyfication is complete.

Tribal goobermints are notoriously liberal and ALWAYS vote for more federal control, which is completely illogical. Plus the whole White Mesa thing keeps the activists stirred up.

Pace yourselves boys, it’s just gunna get worse.

Lol.

 

[hossblur]

To be honest. Why do I give a flying f×*$ what the "locals" think? WE own 640 million acres. WE. Which means the Panguitch rancher and Moab lib get to have a say in the Cache, or Bridge Tetons, etc.

The issue is 100% congress not doing their job and deferring to an Executive "with a pen"

The same new dictator(30+ executive actions in a week) that opens this up again, also just crushed the LWCF by stopping offshore drilling)

The "locals"(330 millionish) didnt get a say in either. In both cases some NGO, or think tank handed the dear leader a piece of paper and a pen. And in both cases, WE took the shank.

I keep hearing sportsmen saying "we are all in this together". In these cases of executive action, they are right, we all got screwed, as Americans and Sportsmen.

 

[BeanMan]

I’ll agree that congress has not been doing it’s job. Reading the constitution I couldn’t find where executive orders privileges were conferred on the President that allowed for establishing monuments. It’s time those ‘powers’ were taken away from all presidents And returned to the congress where they belong.

 

[grizzly]

Reading the constitution I couldn’t find where executive orders privileges were conferred on the President that allowed for establishing monuments. It’s time those ‘powers’ were taken away from all presidents And returned to the congress where they belong.

Congress gave the President those powers via the Antiquities Act of 1906. The Constitution gives Congress the right to pass laws and that's what they did.

Congress could rescind those powers via another law (they've reduced them twice); but there's no question the law, as it stands, is valid.

 

[BeanMan]

Congress gave the President those powers via the Antiquities Act of 1906. The Constitution gives Congress the right to pass laws and that's what they did.

Congress could rescind those powers via another law (they've reduced them twice); but there's no question the law, as it stands, is valid.

View attachment 23578

Ah, I knew I hadn’t read it in the constitution. How do we prevent the back and forth see-saw of one president making a proclamation, the next reversing that, and then the next undoing the reversal. Seems like a poor way of making big decisions. I’m not against Bears Ears.

 

[Tikka]

I don't like the top-down land management and legislation from the executive branch. The President should be enforcing laws, not making them. Natural Resource management should be determined by the legislative branch with input from the citizens. Not determined by a 4-year king.

I support and prefer wise use of our public lands. The "lock it up" mentality has done more harm than good to our public lands. I live 20 minutes from Zion and have little interest in spending time there. It's now an industrial tourism complex. Utah is being overrun by a "preservation" mentality that sucks in the masses, clogs the trails, and pushes to get rid of hunting.

The no cut policies of the Clinton Administration turned the Dixie National Forest from a balanced green producer of jobs and recreation into a brown stand of beetle kill that costs millions in firefighting costs. Instead selling timber and putting some cash into the national treasury, we've turned it over to the beetles and go into more debt to put out fires. I'm not remotely impressed with what SU-YA & Clinton brought this way.

The Bears Ears was quieter 10 years ago and in no danger of any development. Obama became king and decided it needed to be a tourism area. He paid homage to his irrational environmental supporters with an obscure area that was in danger of nothing. Now Bears Ears is a well advertised sport, it's watched and visited like a football game, and it has a very uncertain future as there is a Super Bowl every 4 years.

Bingo

 

[grizzly]

Ah, I knew I hadn’t read it in the constitution. How do we prevent the back and forth see-saw of one president making a proclamation, the next reversing that, and then the next undoing the reversal. Seems like a poor way of making big decisions. I’m not against Bears Ears.

There's still question as to whether one President can legally undo a NM as that's not expressly allowed in the Antiquities Act. It allows the declaration, but not the cancellation... SCOTUS will probably have to decide that one. The best way to prevent the see-saw is new legislation amending or retracting the AA without Congressional approval.

Wyoming and Alaska both negotiated exceptions to the Antiquities Act. Wyoming got theirs with the creation of Jackson Hole National Monument.

Utah could potentially work a compromise deal involving BENM & GSENM that removed the state from future Presidential declarations without Congressional approval as part of a compromise.

Utah's delegation really screwed this up. For instance, Gold Butte NM was granted explicit hunting rights as part of the designation at Harry Reid's request. Bishop would've been better to work with the Obama Administration and get a few things added that are important to the state rather than dig in and wait to see what happens. We all knew BENM was coming, Interior Sec. Sally Jewell even hosted meetings here, and there was a better way to have input than acting like petulant children.

There could potentially be an opportunity again to get people together and come up with a compromise.

Now Chris Stewart keeps trying to turn parts of GSENM into a National Park, which is a horrible idea and really does limit use.

 

[Lymanhh]

? energy development? Where? That rugged damned country does alot of protecting itself. any development that is there is done and in or place or come and gone. Funny you say the natives want it protected from oil and gas. Not that will happen in the bears ears area period. But I know alot of native Americans that feed their family from there jobs in oil and gas industry. Racially germandeing? Lol if there was no districts and just a county vote all 3 commissioners would be conservatives. So you tell me how a liberal judge gerrymandered our county that's majority Republican to have 2 of 3 commissioners liberal Democrats. I'll wait. Tell me how one of those Democrats is not even a San Juan County resident is now a commissioner? It's not about race but hey it's 2021 so let's blame it on race. I could go on and on and on. it's not even worth my time to get into it with some of you guys who soak up what the broken media spews. Just keep sipping that Kool aid.
PS. I am one of those San Juan County Lymans born and raised and proud of it.
Later y'all. Keep on with your discussion I'll just drop back and read from afar like my usual ways.

 

[Togwotee]

It's federal land, so it's up to ALL Americans. I agree with the locals getting a say in it they are not and should not be the last word.

The monument designation may be going too far, but the alternative for the right is a rape and pillage declaration. how do you compromise ? we don't do that anymore as we all know . so given the choice between over protecting and under protecting I say protect the hell out of it.

 

[grizzly]

Lol if there was no districts and just a county vote all 3 commissioners would be conservatives. So you tell me how a liberal judge gerrymandered our county that's majority Republican to have 2 of 3 commissioners liberal Democrats. I'll wait.

Okay dokey, here you go...

The final tally for San Juan County this year was 53% Trump vs. 47% Biden. In 2018 the Commissioner 2 seat was won by the Native American candidate by 159 votes; had it gone only 160 votes the other way the Commission would be 2-1 for the conservatives. That's how close it was.

As it sits, there is one reliably conservative seat, one reliably liberal seat, and one that is so close it is decided by 150 votes. That's a pretty fair representation of a county that voted 53/47 in the last election. 3-0 commissioner seats for one party is not a fair representation of the area.

You can talk about "broken media" and kool aid all you want but the votes don't lie. It's not as homogenous as you say.

 

[Lymanhh]

Okay dokey, here you go...

The final tally for San Juan County this year was 53% Trump vs. 47% Biden. In 2018 the Commissioner 2 seat was won by the Native American candidate by 159 votes; had it gone only 160 votes the other way the Commission would be 2-1 for the conservatives. That's how close it was.

As it sits, there is one reliably conservative seat, one reliably liberal seat, and one that is so close it is decided by 150 votes. That's a pretty fair representation of a county that voted 53/47 in the last election. 3-0 commissioner seats for one party is not a fair representation of the area.

You can talk about "broken media" and kool aid all you want but the votes don't lie. It's not as homogenous as you say.

Ok. All you did was prove my point. SJC is majority conservative. Maryboy is in there because Benally who is also democrat and a great person opposed to BENM along with many of her fellow native Americans had stuff going on in another race and wasn't on the ballot. I'll have to go back in some research and get those details ironed out. As it's not fresh on my mind. Otherwise she would have walked all over Maryboy. Grayeyes is not even a county resident. The residency he provided is a trailer that obviously was not nor is it lived in now. His own family said he has never lived in it but spends most his time in page Arizona and with family who live on the Arizona side of Navajo mountain. His umbilical cord may be burried I SJC and in Navajo culture where that's burried is home. And I'm not disrespecting that by any means but it's still not law or legal. But a judge dismissed it scared to be labeled as a racist bigot when nothing would have been further from the truth. Not to mention both Maryboy and grayeyes have history of fraud and embezzlement. Neither have the best interest in the county or their own tribe. It's all for personal gain. If you're not from here I wouldn't expect you to know that. Because that's the part not being told.

Don't get me wrong I'm very opposed to Adams our conservative commissioner as well. I may agree on his stance with BENM and a few things here and there but he's just another politician. sale out liar in the end as well. There is a weird demographic or rivalry if you will between Monticello and Blanding that keeps his ass in office.

Fact of the matter it has nothing to do with race. If it was we could get into some Maryboy quotes that are racist but that's not what it's about. At the end of the day this whole situation in this corner of the world is not as black and white as the media paints it. They'll say whatever they can to make SJC out to be a bunch white racist outlaws who just want to be selfish and that is NOT what we are.

 

[Lymanhh]

This is all typical Internet politics and and disagreements. We can go back and forth for days and still never change eachothers mind. Just thought i would say some things done of y'all won't find in the msm. Goodnight.

 

[Bluehair]

The scope of the issue is bigger than BENM. I didn’t realize fishing in the marine monuments was prohibited.

Note the exception for Tribes that is now evolving. Tribal occupation of preserved lands as stewards.

Biden commits to ambitious 30x30 conservation target

In a new executive order, the president promised to protect 30 percent of U.S. land and 30 percent of U.S. oceans by 2030.

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[hossblur]

Okay dokey, here you go...

The final tally for San Juan County this year was 53% Trump vs. 47% Biden. In 2018 the Commissioner 2 seat was won by the Native American candidate by 159 votes; had it gone only 160 votes the other way the Commission would be 2-1 for the conservatives. That's how close it was.

As it sits, there is one reliably conservative seat, one reliably liberal seat, and one that is so close it is decided by 150 votes. That's a pretty fair representation of a county that voted 53/47 in the last election. 3-0 commissioner seats for one party is not a fair representation of the area.

You can talk about "broken media" and kool aid all you want but the votes don't lie. It's not as homogenous as you say.

"Broken media"?

The media that reported over 90% negative on a president? One that buried a new presidents kids corruption? One that used forged national guard documents to try to take out another? One that even Ben Rhodes, who worked for Obama, was famously quoted for pointing out how the media is a "bunch of 20yr old kids that know nothing" when Rhodes was planting stories.

I do think, and this is off topic, that what the tribes want is irrelevant. Last I checked, they were their "own nation'". We are supposed to honor treaties, etc in the courts. But then also allow for interjection in all matters outside the res? Im growing pretty tired of the two worlds. If they want to be their own nation, GREAT. If they want to be part of the US, even better. But I for one am tired of the dual world status. And as such care even less about what the tribes think about anything.

 

[Bluehair]

Identity politics is killing America.

 

[DW]

Now Chris Stewart keeps trying to turn parts of GSENM into a National Park, which is a horrible idea and really does limit use.

Many of us have told you this the last time this circus came to town. National monuments lead to national parks which kicks hunting out of the equation. I'm not going back and digging up all the links you put up showing us how that isn't true because plowin this ground again is a waste of time......

 

[hossblur]

Its just the beginning. Now that fed drilling is banned, Wyoming and New Mexico are screwed. Which hurts Utah, Colorado, Arizona.

If you dont think the "transfer" scheme is going to gain rapid steam now your insane.

Heard Glen Beck talking about it the other day. I guarantee hes not the only one.

And to be fair, how do we defend it?

"Utah being in control of the land inside its borders means that it is managed democratically. The feds manage it via Presidential dictates"

We actually got an R to support us. Refuges opened, LWCF/GAOA passed by an R. Only to have a D now crush it, and open Pandora box.

And while this happens, Congress sits on its collective azzes, Senators spend all their time on Sunday shows.

The frustration is monumental

 

[johnnyutah]

Weird what happens when the Native American voice in the area isn’t racistly gerrymandered out huh? I guess you just like “local control” when it agrees with some of you right?

Greyeyes being in office is worse than gerrymandering. He is presiding in a county where he was not a resident at the time of the election. The judicial branch folded, which is very disturbing. A "no racism pretense" is now judicially more important than enforcing residency law requirements for politicians.

We as a people should be demanding the checks and balances set forth in the U.S. Constitution be restored - regardless of what a "local" is and regardless if it gives us our way.

Public land management (and legislation) should be determined by the people. Everyone should have a say in the discussion: hikers, oil producers, tourists, hunters, loggers, bikers, atv riders, wilderness advocates, grazing permitees, horse advocates, etc. should all be heard. Right now the Sierra Club gets its way when their guy is President and Chevron gets its way when their guy is in.

WHAT WILL YOU DO IF YOUR POLITICAL PARTY/PRESIDENT GOES AFTER YOUR HUNTING PRIVLEGES?

Our law-making branch should make the decision after public input and pick the winners and the losers after a lot of debate. The President should simply enforce whatever is decided, not be the decider. That's what its come to though. Congress transferred power from the people to the Executive Branch. It looked great when Roosevelt was calling the shots. Now it only looks good when your guy is President.

The Constitution when followed repulses tyranny and chaos. Now everyone bypasses congress and goes to the President to give them their way. Questions from the people and the media in a Presidential election are beyond ignorant. Nobody ever asks "what laws will you enforce?" or "how will you enforce X law?" or "What laws will you not enforce?" or "How will you work with Congress to fix X law?" or "How will you broker peace?" or "What is your red line for waging war?"

Instead the citizens and media turn to the Executive Branch to manage our public lands, bail-out failing businesses, give us health care, fix racial hatred, cure the environment, take away our personal finance problems, prop up an economy, make us healthy, lower the sea levels, settle our differences, on & on. Americans expect the President to fix their personal lives and give them what they want. He can't do it. That's why we have $27 trillion in debt which likely will not be resolved without a collapse, Social Security disaster on the horizion, and a lot of unsettled disputes - public land management being only one drop in the bucket.

 

[Togwotee]

This is a replay of the same lame low IQ arguments the right bashed Teddy Roosevelt with when he created the system we can thank for saving our public lands thus far.

The only difference is Biden is no TR. but all TR had to fight was big money not Q-anon freaks and orange lipped fascists when did it.

 

[DW]

Patience Tog, farmers will be on the chopping block soon enough.

 

[wetmule]

Someone skipped class when they were teaching about fascism

 

[grizzly]

Someone skipped class when they were teaching about facism

You should probably spell it correctly when criticizing somebody's education

 

[johnnyutah]

This is a replay of the same lame low IQ arguments the right bashed Teddy Roosevelt with when he created the system we can thank for saving our public lands thus far.

The only difference is Biden is no TR. but all TR had to fight was big money not Q-anon freaks and orange lipped fascists when did it.

Trading a tyrant proof government for recreational lands is high IQ?

 

[Homer]

Its just the beginning. Now that fed drilling is banned, Wyoming and New Mexico are screwed. Which hurts Utah, Colorado, Arizona.

If you dont think the "transfer" scheme is going to gain rapid steam now your insane.

Heard Glen Beck talking about it the other day. I guarantee hes not the only one.

And to be fair, how do we defend it?

"Utah being in control of the land inside its borders means that it is managed democratically. The feds manage it via Presidential dictates"

We actually got an R to support us. Refuges opened, LWCF/GAOA passed by an R. Only to have a D now crush it, and open Pandora box.

And while this happens, Congress sits on its collective azzes, Senators spend all their time on Sunday shows.

The frustration is monumental

The worst thing that ever happened in this country for good legislation was making Senators elected by popular vote...

"On March 4, 1789, the first group of elected senators reported for duty. From 1789 to 1913, when the Seventeenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified, senators were elected by state legislatures. Beginning with the 1914 general election, all U.S. senators have been chosen by direct popular election."

They used to represent the STATE, not individuals in the state....that was the job of the Representatives "congressmen".

 

[hossblur]

The worst thing that ever happened in this country for good legislation was making Senators elected by popular vote...

"On March 4, 1789, the first group of elected senators reported for duty. From 1789 to 1913, when the Seventeenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified, senators were elected by state legislatures. Beginning with the 1914 general election, all U.S. senators have been chosen by direct popular election."

They used to represent the STATE, not individuals in the state....that was the job of the Representatives "congressmen".

Yup. Excellent point

 

[hossblur]

This is a replay of the same lame low IQ arguments the right bashed Teddy Roosevelt with when he created the system we can thank for saving our public lands thus far.

The only difference is Biden is no TR. but all TR had to fight was big money not Q-anon freaks and orange lipped fascists when did it.

Might want to go read up on your TR fighting off the big money.

Specifically focus on the LA. aquaduct creation. He had no problem laying the screws to the little guys to support big $$$.

 

[Homer]

Tog’s ox hasn’t been gored yet.....

 

[Oneye]

Ok. All you did was prove my point. SJC is majority conservative. Maryboy is in there because Benally who is also democrat and a great person opposed to BENM along with many of her fellow native Americans had stuff going on in another race and wasn't on the ballot. I'll have to go back in some research and get those details ironed out. As it's not fresh on my mind. Otherwise she would have walked all over Maryboy. Grayeyes is not even a county resident. The residency he provided is a trailer that obviously was not nor is it lived in now. His own family said he has never lived in it but spends most his time in page Arizona and with family who live on the Arizona side of Navajo mountain. His umbilical cord may be burried I SJC and in Navajo culture where that's burried is home. And I'm not disrespecting that by any means but it's still not law or legal. But a judge dismissed it scared to be labeled as a racist bigot when nothing would have been further from the truth. Not to mention both Maryboy and grayeyes have history of fraud and embezzlement. Neither have the best interest in the county or their own tribe. It's all for personal gain. If you're not from here I wouldn't expect you to know that. Because that's the part not being told.

Don't get me wrong I'm very opposed to Adams our conservative commissioner as well. I may agree on his stance with BENM and a few things here and there but he's just another politician. sale out liar in the end as well. There is a weird demographic or rivalry if you will between Monticello and Blanding that keeps his ass in office.

Fact of the matter it has nothing to do with race. If it was we could get into some Maryboy quotes that are racist but that's not what it's about. At the end of the day this whole situation in this corner of the world is not as black and white as the media paints it. They'll say whatever they can to make SJC out to be a bunch white racist outlaws who just want to be selfish and that is NOT what we are.

Rural parts of Utah are some of the most ignorant and racist places in the country. Want to know how I know? Living and growing up here. If the shoe fits........ it’s interesting how is widely known across the rest of the country that Utah has a very racist perception and reputation. Reputation......is earned. And yes the district boundaries were intentionally drawn to suppress the Native American vote. Hell you can see it in our House District map with the blue vote. You think Salt Lake County is split up into 3 different districts ranging from Provo, to St George, to San Juan on accident? Lol. Utah’s population is around 35-39% reliably Democrat in elections these days. Want to know why part of Salt Lake City shares the same district you vote in? Gerrymandering by the Republican Party to suppress accurate representation in Washington. Don’t tell me those districts weren’t broken up to suppress the Native American vote prior to the judge ruling against it because they absolutely were.

 

[Oneye]

Its just the beginning. Now that fed drilling is banned, Wyoming and New Mexico are screwed. Which hurts Utah, Colorado, Arizona.

If you dont think the "transfer" scheme is going to gain rapid steam now your insane.

Heard Glen Beck talking about it the other day. I guarantee hes not the only one.

And to be fair, how do we defend it?

"Utah being in control of the land inside its borders means that it is managed democratically. The feds manage it via Presidential dictates"

We actually got an R to support us. Refuges opened, LWCF/GAOA passed by an R. Only to have a D now crush it, and open Pandora box.

And while this happens, Congress sits on its collective azzes, Senators spend all their time on Sunday shows.

The frustration is monumental

Yes it for sure will, and I’ll fight day and night against the stupid notion to do it.

 

[Founder]

After looking at the last 10 replies of this thread it’s no longer a discussion about Bears Ears boundaries that could effect hunting. Time to lock it.